# discus ??



## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

hiya , i was thinking of going marine , but i thought since i have had no experience with marines i will go for tropical just to get a feel for fish keeping . I am going to get a 94l river reef , now i wouldn't have minded some discus , how many could i fit in this tank if any at all. And if any of you have had discus , would u mind sharing a few pics :2thumb:


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

I had some for a while, not very long tho i accumulated them and then gave them to a friend as i wanted something else. some pics:


























excuse the ugly gouramis haha


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

cool they look nice , how many did u have and how big was your tank


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i would have thought 94L would be too small for any more than 2 discus, and as adults they will need around 18" min depth too. they require very good water quality and would need very frequent probably several times per week water changes in a tank that size. you need to have a mature stable tank, and will need to keep ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates always under 20ppm. personally i would try something a little less fragile if you arent already keeping fish. depending on the tank height you could have 1 or 2 angelfish with a school of 6 cory catfish. theres lots to choose from but make sure you research the fish you want to keep before you buy them :2thumb: and definately research the aquarium cycle.


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

ginna said:


> cool they look nice , how many did u have and how big was your tank


sorry forgot you asked that.
Id say in a 94Litre? about 2 adults. Discus are quite big fish really even tho they arn't wide they grow to about 6inch in length and depth and should really be kept in big tanks, as they are cichlids and they need thier space (terratory)
I personally recommend something abit smaller for a 94litre.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

goldie1212 said:


> i would have thought 94L would be too small for any more than 2 discus, and as adults they will need around 18" min depth too. they require very good water quality and would need very frequent probably several times per week water changes in a tank that size. you need to have a mature stable tank, and will need to keep ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates always under 20ppm. personally i would try something a little less fragile if you arent already keeping fish. depending on the tank height you could have 1 or 2 angelfish with a school of 6 cory catfish. theres lots to choose from but make sure you research the fish you want to keep before you buy them :2thumb: and definately research the aquarium cycle.


Yeah he's right...I have kept discus for a number of years.PM me with any queries, after you do some research yourself; buy a book; join the UKDA forum; and read info on the net.They are very easy to care for if you know what you're doing.They should be kept in groups of 5 + or as a breeding pair - and species tanks tend to work best.They are prone to stunting, and daily water changes, with many feedings per day are needed when young.


Rachelsands said:


> I had some for a while, not very long tho i accumulated them and then gave them to a friend as i wanted something else. some pics:
> 
> image
> image
> ...


Oscar + discus = fail.Some look like they may have been stunted a bit, having a large eye in comparison to their body and not a very round shape.
Some of my old discus.
































I stunted mine I believe, through slacking on water changes one summer.They all died off in a similar time period, living 3-4 years.


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Yeah he's right...I have kept discus for a number of years.PM me with any queries, after you do some research yourself; buy a book; join the UKDA forum; and read info on the net.They are very easy to care for if you know what you're doing.They should be kept in groups of 5 + or as a breeding pair - and species tanks tend to work best.They are prone to stunting, and daily water changes, with many feedings per day are needed when young.
> 
> Oscar + discus = fail.Some look like they may have been stunted a bit, having a large eye in comparison to their body and not a very round shape.
> Some of my old discus.
> ...



Ha ha knew someone would mention the oscars lol
believe it or not they were fine, small oscars dont seem to have the agression of big uns, i used to have 2 massive ones and i would never have put them in trust me. I only had them for a total of 4 weeks?? as you can see the tank isnt set up i was holding them really, they can to me like that and left like that.

Yours are lovely tho, really nice colours!!
They can be really nice fish to keep, very friendly great personalities lol


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Ahh right, fair enough man.: victory:


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## Rachelsands (Sep 29, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Ahh right, fair enough man.: victory:


im no man lol


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> i would have thought 94L would be too small for any more than 2 discus, and as adults they will need around 18" min depth too. they require very good water quality and would need very frequent probably several times per week water changes in a tank that size. you need to have a mature stable tank, and will need to keep ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates always under 20ppm. personally i would try something a little less fragile if you arent already keeping fish. depending on the tank height you could have 1 or 2 angelfish with a school of 6 cory catfish. theres lots to choose from but make sure you research the fish you want to keep before you buy them :2thumb: and *definately research the aquarium cycle*.


is that when you just run your tank with no fish and then keep testing , ammonia nitrates nitrites and ph daily untill all but ph are down to 0 then add fish ?


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

ginna said:


> hiya , i was thinking of going marine , but i thought since i have had no experience with marines i will go for tropical just to get a feel for fish keeping . I am going to get a 94l river reef , now i wouldn't have minded some discus , how many could i fit in this tank if any at all. And if any of you have had discus , would u mind sharing a few pics :2thumb:


94 litres is far too small for discus. Due to their adult size and need for exceptionally good filtration and water quality, you'd be looking at a 4 foot tank minimum. It also needs to be a tall tank, over 18" tall, as they are very tall fish!

The guides I use as the inch-per-gallon rule, which if you take into account the size in inches (not just length) is a fairly good basic rule for beginner stocking. I also will always give fish at least 6 x their adult body length, so a 6" fish needs a 36" tank minimum, etc. 

I would not recommend discus for a beginner. A community tank would be much better, IMO, as you can get a nice tank with lots of active, hardy species. 

Whatever you do, you need to make sure you have fully researched the nitrogen cycle and ideally done a fishless cycle on the tank prior to stocking. You also need to make sure your tank can handle the adult size of the fish. The RiveReefs are nice but quite boxy, which means you can't have as big fish as you might get in a normal 94 litre tank. 

I wouldn't go for angels, as someone suggested, as they need at least 36" x 15" x 18" of swimming space.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

Assaye said:


> 94 litres is far too small for discus. Due to their adult size and need for exceptionally good filtration and water quality, you'd be looking at a 4 foot tank minimum. It also needs to be a tall tank, over 18" tall, as they are very tall fish!
> 
> The guides I use as the inch-per-gallon rule, which if you take into account the size in inches (not just length) is a fairly good basic rule for beginner stocking. I also will always give fish at least 6 x their adult body length, so a 6" fish needs a 36" tank minimum, etc.
> 
> ...


yea im gunna get a riverreef 94 as when i am a bit more expierianced i can turn it into a marine tank (Y)


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Assaye said:


> 94 litres is far too small for discus. Due to their adult size and need for exceptionally good filtration and water quality, you'd be looking at a 4 foot tank minimum. It also needs to be a tall tank, over 18" tall, as they are very tall fish!
> Anything over 16" is fine without substrate, even with some of the largest discus.Most breeders seem to use tanks of 60-90 litres for a pair.
> The guides I use as the inch-per-gallon rule, which if you take into account the size in inches (not just length) is a fairly good basic rule for beginner stocking. I also will always give fish at least 6 x their adult body length, so a 6" fish needs a 36" tank minimum, etc.
> *Can save beginners from making a total mess...But other than that it's a load of balls.*
> ...





ginna said:


> yea im gunna get a riverreef 94 as when i am a bit more expierianced i can turn it into a marine tank (Y)


Tbh a marine tank is just as easy to maintain, unless you are getting corals, rare fish etc...But more costly.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

nitrogen cycle- ammonia from fish waste/uneaten food is converted into nitrites, nitrites are then converted into nitrates, nitrates must be removed from your tank via weekly water changes. 

all this needs a bacterial colony in your tank, and can take up to 6-8 weeks from scratch. you will need to add some form of ammonia to your tank to start the cycle. 

if you use live fish to cycle your tank you will need a good liquid drop test kit to test for ammonia and nitrites as these are both extremely harmful to your fish and very regular water changes will be required to keep them at a safe level until the nitrates are present and the ammonia and nitrites are down to zero.

once cycled your test results should be ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates <40ppm.

if you do decide to do a fish in cycle add some live plants to absorb some of the excess ammonia and nitrites.

the best thing to do is a fishless cycle, either drop a rotting prawn into the tank or better yet buy some pure ammonia and add some each day until you test the water and the ammonia is at 0 and you are registering nitrates.

theres so much information about this, explained much better than this, just look it up :2thumb:


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

It would be easier just to clone or seed his filter with someone else's media.Fishless cycling can be a world of bother.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> nitrogen cycle- ammonia from fish waste/uneaten food is converted into nitrites, nitrites are then converted into nitrates, nitrates must be removed from your tank via weekly water changes.
> 
> all this needs a bacterial colony in your tank, and can take up to 6-8 weeks from scratch. you will need to add some form of ammonia to your tank to start the cycle.
> 
> ...


 eh so u add amonia to get rid of ammonia ??????????:?:


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ginna said:


> eh so u add amonia to get rid of ammonia ??????????:?:


you need to build up a bacterial colony which will convert ammonia into nitrites, and then the nitrites into nitrates. so yes, you need to feed the bacteria to establish the colony. the start of the 'food chain' is the ammonia so yes you need to add ammonia to have the end result of no ammonia. it really is simple once you get to grips with it. 

i agree though, if you can get hold of some media from someones established tank, or some gravel, you will have the bacteria colony started and will then need to keep it going and multiplying by adding ammonia or fish to your tank. for the 1st couple of weeks you will still need to keep check on ammonia and nitrites to ensure they dont rise too high which would be called a mini-cycle if nitrates are already reading. this means rather than establishing a colony of bacteria, you are simply waiting for it to grow to meet the higher bio-load of the inhabitants.

make sure you never add untreated tap water to your aquarium or wash you filter media in untreated tap water, the chlorine and chloramines will kill off your bacteria colony and you will be back to stage 1 and need to cycle all over again which will be very stressful on your fish.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> you need to build up a bacterial colony which will convert ammonia into nitrites, and then the nitrites into nitrates. so yes, you need to feed the bacteria to establish the colony. the start of the 'food chain' is the ammonia so yes you need to add ammonia to have the end result of no ammonia. it really is simple once you get to grips with it.
> 
> i agree though, if you can get hold of some media from someones established tank, or some gravel, you will have the bacteria colony started and will then need to keep it going and multiplying by adding ammonia or fish to your tank. for the 1st couple of weeks you will still need to keep check on ammonia and nitrites to ensure they dont rise too high which would be called a mini-cycle if nitrates are already reading. this means rather than establishing a colony of bacteria, you are simply waiting for it to grow to meet the higher bio-load of the inhabitants.
> 
> make sure you never add untreated tap water to your aquarium or wash you filter media in untreated tap water, the chlorine and chloramines will kill off your bacteria colony and you will be back to stage 1 and need to cycle all over again which will be very stressful on your fish.


right , so if i went to my lfs and asked for a decrepid filter sponge and put that in my filter box , would i then add fish to add ammonia , or keep with bottled for a bit


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> 94 litres is far too small for discus. Due to their adult size and need for exceptionally good filtration and water quality, you'd be looking at a 4 foot tank minimum. It also needs to be a tall tank, over 18" tall, as they are very tall fish!
> Anything over 16" is fine without substrate, even with some of the largest discus.Most breeders seem to use tanks of 60-90 litres for a pair.
> The guides I use as the inch-per-gallon rule, which if you take into account the size in inches (not just length) is a fairly good basic rule for beginner stocking. I also will always give fish at least 6 x their adult body length, so a 6" fish needs a 36" tank minimum, etc.
> *Can save beginners from making a total mess...But other than that it's a load of balls.*
> ...


I disagree with what a lot of breeders do, as they are trying to maximise the amount the fish breed while saving on space. I would never keep adult discus in a 60-90 litre tank - I feel it is cruel to limit their space. They may breed in pairs but they are a shoaling species and should be with more of their kind. As they reach 8-10 inches tall and 8-10 inches long, a 48" tank with plenty of height is necessary, IMO. 

The inch per gallon rule is very weak if only taking into account the length. However, if length, width and height of the fish are taken into account, it becomes much stronger. So a discus would not be 8", it would be 16" because they are generally as tall as they are long. I would still not recommend a 16-20 gallon tank which is where my second rule of 6 x the body length comes in. That takes into account both volume of water and length of tank. 

Ginna - get a filter sponge from a mature tank, a bottle of household ammonia (from Boots or B&Q - make sure it has no perfumes or surfacants!) and a liquid master testing kit that cover ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH as a minimum. 

Put the filter sponge in your filter and get the tank running. Add a few drops of ammonia and test the water - you want between 3-5 ppm of ammonia to read on the test. Fiddle around until you get this. If you go over, do a small water change and re-test.

Check your pH before you start - if it is under 6.5 you'll find it hard to get things moving as the bacteria you want to breed can go dormant. You can add a little bit of coral sand to bring the pH up to a better level (7-8.5 is good for bacteria, 7 gives you the best range of fish). 

Now, all you need to to is test your water once a day for ammonia and nitrite. You'll start with ammonia, as you added some, but once the bacteria start growing you'll see nitrite appearing. You'll see the nitrite go up and up over a few days and then start to go down. When you see it go down, keep testing but also test for nitrate. 

If the ammonia level goes right down to near zero, top it up again to 3-5 ppm. 

You know your tank is cycled when it takes 12 hours to go from 3-5ppm of ammonia to _zero _ammonia and _zero_ nitrites, with a rising level of nitrates. Make sure you know what your nitrate level is from the tap to compare. No point thinking you have a cycled tank when no nitates are being produced!

This process takes 3-6 weeks on average and while it is a long time to stare at an empty tank, you'll be saving the fish a lot of pain and suffering as ammonia and nitrite will be produced when you add fish _if you don't have enough bacteria_. These are very toxic to the fish and a big killer in newly set up tanks!

With your mature sponge (if you get one), you can really cut this time down. Depending on how much bacteria you get in the sponge, you could have the tank cycled in anywhere from 24 hours to 3 weeks, which is generally a lot shorter than it takes to do it from scratch!

Once you've done that, see out some hardy species for your tank. Do a 80% water change (to reduce nitrates) before adding fish and make sure you don't overstock the tank (this is where the inch-per-gallon rule comes in) and you don't have any fish that will outgrow the tank.

The best way is to take some paper to a fish store and write down the names of fish you like, then ask on here, join a fishkeeping forum and/or research yourself online and in books. Always double check the info as sometimes the info on websites and such is wrong, even basics like adult size!

A few things to remember - 

+ Don't use untreated tap water. It contains a nasty mix of metals, chlorine and sometimes chloramine. Get a good water conditioner such as Seachem Prime or Stress Coat + and use 1.5-2x the dose suggested. 
+ Don't add mature media and then spend a few days wondering what to do. The bacteria will die. Only get mature media into the tank once you're ready to go. 
+ Get a liquid test kit - experienced fishkeepers can sometimes do without them but you'll never know how your tank is doing unless you test the water. Never rely on the fish to tell you if they are sick/uncomfortable as once they look sick, they're generally very sick and suffering!
+ Always research before you buy and don't rely on the shop for recommendations
+ Always leave the filter and heater on. That's basic but some people don't realise you need to.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

could i use ro fresh water , cos my lfs sell it , would that be better than tap water ?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

tap water is easier, and cheaper,why would you want to use ro water? you will still need to buy stuff to add to it, you just wouldnt need dechlorinator. either way, you still need to cycle the tank.


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

goldie1212 said:


> tap water is easier, and cheaper,why would you want to use ro water? you will still need to buy stuff to add to it, you just wouldnt need dechlorinator. either way, you still need to cycle the tank.


so if i just use tap water , what do i add to make it safe for my fish ?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

dechlorniator, you can get it from any pet shops or aquatics centres, its cheap and there are lots to choose from, i personally use interpet bioactive tapsafe. it works instantly, you have to add it to the water before it goes into the tank. i fill a 10gallon bucket with tap water from the hose then treat it in the bucket and use a jug to add the treated water into the tank. i change 60%+ of my tanks at a time, and my tanks are 150, 95 and 20 gallons each. it takes a while but i used to do it by dosing the whole amount needed for the tank then filling it with tap water from a hose, but i used to get cloudy water (bacteria die off) so i stopped and do it this way now. its worth it in the long run as i know my cycle is unharmed by my water changes and my fish are thriving :2thumb:


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

I use Stress Coat + as I've found customers at my old work who used that Interpet stuff often had ammonia in their water when they didn't have fish in the tank. What we think happened was the Tapsafe destroyed the chlorine+ammonia bond in the chloramine in the local water and left the ammonia. We're not sure whether it was in a toxic or non-toxic form but I've never had that problem with the Stress Coat. Nice thing about Stress Coat is that is doubles up as a tonic for the fish.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

hmmm, i may switch to something else then. ive never had a problem with it but just as a precautionary measure. thanks for the heads up :2thumb:


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## ginna (Jun 2, 2009)

that sounds cool , have any of you got any suggestions for fish to put in my tank , i would like a species that shoals as one of them :2thumb:


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## Assaye (Sep 23, 2009)

ginna said:


> that sounds cool , have any of you got any suggestions for fish to put in my tank , i would like a species that shoals as one of them :2thumb:


With the short length of the tank, I think the largest fish you should get is 3-4 inches. 

How about:

10 tetras/rasboras - I'd recommend black neon, glowlight, glass bloodfins, green fire or neon/cardinal as personal favourites, with harlequin rasboras also being very attractive. If you get neons or cardinals, wait until the tank has been running and stable with fish for about 3 months as a minimum, preferably 6. Keep all the same species to have happy fish that display attractive shoaling behavior. 

3 honey gouramis - small gouramis that work well in small groups and have a lovely honey colour. Red honeys are a colour variant.

8 corys - little catfish of the corydora family. A shoaling fish that spends much of it's time on the bottom. Get 8 of the same species for the best shoaling behavior and happier fish. Some of these guys like quite cool water so make sure you choose fish that are suitable for the tank temperature. 

20 red cherry shrimp - stunning colours and great clean up crew! May even breed. 

I think that would fully stock your tank. It's over the inch per gallon rule but I think your filtration system will cope. Once the fish are all adults, it will be very active, so don't be tempted to get more because it looks empty when they are small. 

Please make sure you cycle the tank before you start and make sure you have a test kit!


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## DaveM (Oct 18, 2006)

Assaye said:


> With the short length of the tank, I think the largest fish you should get is 3-4 inches.
> 
> How about:
> 
> ...



Or maybe get rid of the Honey gouramis and go for a nice pair of Apistograma sp. or microgeophagus?

That's what I would do =]

The shrimps might do better in a cooler tank though =]


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