# Encouraging toadlets to eat



## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Iv been rambling on about my 1cm Green Toadlet over in my picture thread for quite some time, but of course not everyone looks at those :lol2: so I thought id ask in the main section for ideas too. So far, fruit flies and small crickets get kicked away or make him run off, he wont eat them at all anymore as they seem to terrify him :crazy: Iv had success with calci worms but yesterday he decided he didnt want those either... im at a bit of a loss as to what to do for the best without stressing him out. Obviously force feeding is going to be too much for him at this size? But seeing as he is spending most of his time in his water I was thinking of trying him on live bloodworm? Would this work? Im going to try to get hold of some rehydration fluid to see if that gives him a boost. When he does eat he produces feces so im pretty confident he is working properly and theres no impaction... 

Anyway, thanks for looking


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## Muggs (Feb 9, 2011)

Have you tried Springtails?


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Iv had him on live substrate for a while, with springtails and tropical woodlice but they dont seem to have been eaten :/ iv got some pea aphids on order but theyre not here yet...


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I would guess that there is something more fundamentally wrong if it is spending more time in the water.Green Toads are only aquatic in the breeding season.

Separate it and put it in a small tub with sparce surroundings ,just some damp tissue and a hide .Then put in some very small aphids,crickets,fruitflies,woodlice or even chopped eartworms.

At the end of the day sometimes you get runts that dont grow no matter what you do.Dont be too harsh on yourself.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

colinm said:


> I would guess that there is something more fundamentally wrong if it is spending more time in the water.Green Toads are only aquatic in the breeding season.
> 
> Separate it and put it in a small tub with sparce surroundings ,just some damp tissue and a hide .Then put in some very small aphids,crickets,fruitflies,woodlice or even chopped eartworms.
> 
> At the end of the day sometimes you get runts that dont grow no matter what you do.Dont be too harsh on yourself.


Thanks, hes been separated for about a week now, and seems to have improved a tiny bit :/ iv got some small earthworms I can chop up for him, for some reason I never thought of that! 

Iv been telling myself since I got him that he isnt going to make it, but he's such a character and im surprised hes made it this long... il be gutted if he doesnt make it, but I know its not very hopeful looking.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I've probably said this before, but try him on wild woodlice, too.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> I've probably said this before, but try him on wild woodlice, too.


Yeh, iv collected some up, but im not sure im ready to risk possible pesticides :/ depends if i can get hold of the neighbors ... going to order another culture when I can. Tried him on the bloodworm, and they were ignored ... got some daphnia while i was at it, which seemed to encourage a few half arsed snaps at them. So iv left him now with a few worms in his box to let him settle, he gets so stressed when you first put food in so im just going to leave him be for a while. Its getting so frustrating as all the fussing is probably doing more harm than good! So im trying to just keep him as warm and quiet as possible to see if he snaps out of it.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Yeh, iv collected some up, but im not sure im ready to risk possible pesticides :/ depends if i can get hold of the neighbors ... going to order another culture when I can. Tried him on the bloodworm, and they were ignored ... got some daphnia while i was at it, which seemed to encourage a few half arsed snaps at them. So iv left him now with a few worms in his box to let him settle, he gets so stressed when you first put food in so im just going to leave him be for a while. Its getting so frustrating as all the fussing is probably doing more harm than good! So im trying to just keep him as warm and quiet as possible to see if he snaps out of it.


Bufonoids aren't great on the whole at eating out of the water- their sticky tongues don't work! I can see you are doing everything you can think of, though. If you can find or buy some small earthworms, that might help- you may have to chop them into small sections, though.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Bufonoids aren't great on the whole at eating out of the water- their sticky tongues don't work! I can see you are doing everything you can think of, though. If you can find or buy some small earthworms, that might help- you may have to chop them into small sections, though.


Oo i have small earthworms!! I was going to throw them in the garden though as even the healthy toadlets turn their nose up at them, and thats saying something! :blush: Will dig it out of my room and cut some up. Do you think i should give him a break and try him tonight though? Seeing as hes just gone back? 

I've gone and gotten stupidly attached to him after all this, but after a chat with one of my mates im starting to wonder if keeping him alive is more for my benefit than his... he's still so active and must be eating something to have survived this far, will it be obvious when hes had enough? Id hate to drag it out if hes suffering... although this is the same person who said that hes only a 10 quid toadlet just stick him outside and buy another :bash: sorry im rambling, everyone else is fed up of hearing me think out loud... its easier over the net :blush:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Oo i have small earthworms!! I was going to throw them in the garden though as even the healthy toadlets turn their nose up at them, and thats saying something! :blush: Will dig it out of my room and cut some up. Do you think i should give him a break and try him tonight though? Seeing as hes just gone back?
> 
> I've gone and gotten stupidly attached to him after all this, but after a chat with one of my mates im starting to wonder if keeping him alive is more for my benefit than his... he's still so active and must be eating something to have survived this far, will it be obvious when hes had enough? Id hate to drag it out if hes suffering... although this is the same person who said that hes only a 10 quid toadlet just stick him outside and buy another :bash: sorry im rambling, everyone else is fed up of hearing me think out loud... its easier over the net :blush:


Send him to me, before you chuck him out!

Ok, if you've been disturbing him a lot, just put some of the chopped up worms in a dish (plant pot saucer is good) and leave him to it, overnight. If he doesn't eat them straight away, try again tomorrow- and so on. The thing to watch out for if you aren't sure he's eating enough is his general proportions, rather than size- especially look to see if his lower spine and hip bones are sticking out or covered by flesh. If he's looking mostly rounded, he's just slow-growing, rather than starved.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Send him to me, before you chuck him out!
> 
> Ok, if you've been disturbing him a lot, just put some of the chopped up worms in a dish (plant pot saucer is good) and leave him to it, overnight. If he doesn't eat them straight away, try again tomorrow- and so on. The thing to watch out for if you aren't sure he's eating enough is his general proportions, rather than size- especially look to see if his lower spine and hip bones are sticking out or covered by flesh. If he's looking mostly rounded, he's just slow-growing, rather than starved.


:lol2: Will do.

I wouldnt say a lot, but I check 2/3 times a day to make sure hes ok/alive/not being chewed on by crickets or swarmed with fruitflies (for some reason they like sitting on his head) ...which i guess isnt really needed if I just dont give him crickets, will chop some worms up and stick them in, then leave him completely alone until tomorrow night. On the days he eats, only his hip bones are poking out, but on days he hasnt eaten hes really skinny, almost skeletal. He even has tight flaps of skin down his sides where there should be a fat little belly  but dispite that hes so alert and active. He even sits up like the others when I put food in which always gives me false hope that hes hungry!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok, that's a bit worrying- he shouldn't vary so much. If he were wild-caught, I'd suspect worms, but given his size, I imagine he's CB. All i can suggest is carry on with what you are doing, and hope!


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

He is captive bred.: victory:Trust me I know the man who breeds them.

You could try mini mealworms( I cant rember their correct name).They are not readily available at shops but are online.Your other young frogs will like them,I feed them to my young lizards and they are a nice change.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Yeh he was CB it says on the website that they were eating the aphids which are wild caught... do you think he could've got worms from those? Iv no idea if aphids can get worms... Iv been tempted to try worming him just incase, but seems quite traumatic for him.

I bought some mini mealworms for my little tomato froglet but even the smallest mealies in there are getting on double the size of the toadlet :blush: I was going to cut one of those up, but I was worried if hes got something going wrong with his digestive system the chitin might cause a blockage somewhere :/ so I just left it in the end. 

Gave him his chopped up earthworms, which he came over to look at, fed the other 2 toadlets while I was up there, turned around and one segment had gone. Logic says he would've eaten it but I cant bring myself to get my hopes up


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

I wouldn`t worm him yet.If you can get some weight back on him I would maybe think of it then.He is so small that you will find the dosage difficult.

I dont think that you can give him worms by feeding him aphids but if it was me I wouldn`t be worrying about worms,just getting him feeding again.

I meant Buffalo Worms by Mini Mealworms,they really are tiny.Another thought is Bean Weavils,they are small and fast moving.My dartfrogs dont really like them but other people recommend them.If you p.m. me your address I will send some out on Monday,its worth a try.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

No, aphids wouldn't give him worms


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Well at least that rules out worms then :2thumb: Will have a look to see if I can get some buffalo worms if they're smaller.

I never thought of bean weavils! You're right, its worth a shot, will pm you. Thankyou!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Well, I took out the uneaten worms and replaced them a short while ago... and the little bugger hopped out and had a hop around the bed, he ended up chasing and hunting a calci worm but again didn't eat it... hes so strange! Really surprised he could jump so high :blush: Iv noticed he doesn't really walk much like the other 2, he hops around like a frog :crazy: he also makes a little click or pop every so often which im assuming is when he breathes. Im guessing that somewhere along the line he just hasn't formed properly. Glad to say that he isn't as skinny as yesterday morning. So must've eaten something last night : victory:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Well, good luck- you're doing everything I'd think of!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Well, good luck- you're doing everything I'd think of!


Thanks :notworthy: im running out of ideas now though, only tried the bloodworms as my mate made a passing joke that he still thinks hes a tadpole :blush: but if he doesnt make it, i want to know i did all i could...im a bugger for kicking myself.

If he gets too far downhill im contemplating a smelly bug/protein paste on the end of a paintbrush... thats my back up plan, really dont want to resort to force feeding. Luckily that seems not to be needed for now!  thanks for all your help so far :no1: I was half expecting to be laughed at for being so soppy over a little toadlet... all my friends and family think im mad now!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Thanks :notworthy: im running out of ideas now though, only tried the bloodworms as my mate made a passing joke that he still thinks hes a tadpole :blush: but if he doesnt make it, i want to know i did all i could...im a bugger for kicking myself.
> 
> If he gets too far downhill im contemplating a smelly bug/protein paste on the end of a paintbrush... thats my back up plan, really dont want to resort to force feeding. Luckily that seems not to be needed for now!  thanks for all your help so far :no1: I was half expecting to be laughed at for being so soppy over a little toadlet... all my friends and family think im mad now!


I'll laugh at you, if that will make you feel better...:whistling2:

Don't ever feel sorry for caring about your animals, mate- sometimes we lose them, but that's never a reason not to try.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> I'll laugh at you, if that will make you feel better...:whistling2:
> 
> Don't ever feel sorry for caring about your animals, mate- sometimes we lose them, but that's never a reason not to try.


:lol2: thanks, it might...you never know! Very true that, I like the way you think : victory: Im game for as long as hes willing to try. Went up there a second ago to get a jumper and he came hopping over to the front of the tank from his leaves! Cant believe something that skinny can be bright as a button still :gasp:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Well I went up to bed after not realising id spent until 4am reading toad rehab stories...go to check on him and think sod it, il try crickets again... so i pop him into a separate box away from the ff's i left in with him. Leave him a little while and get to watch him snap up 2 size 2 crickets in rather quick succession. To say that im happy is an understatement... to tell the truth I nearly cried :blush: (i lie, i cried!)

If he only wants to eat at 4am thats bloody fine by me!! :jump::cheers:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

So for the first time since iv had him, he has eaten 2 nights in a row :grouphug: he's had 4 crickets today, 3 left in, hopefully next time i check on him some more will have gone! Although its still a pain trying to pick out the crickets he wants, the larger size 2's are too big and scare him, smaller than 2's are ignored...and scare him :blush: I added some calcium to his water last night as iv been quite worried that he might get MBD with the whole not eating. Not sure if it did anything but he was certainly more keen to feed tonight than iv ever seen him :2thumb: hes also not looking quite so skeletal and even left me a nice gift in the corner of his tank...which he hasn't done for a few days. I have absolutely no idea what im doing thats working but im just glad so far it is!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

It's more likely to be a combination of things than any one, but in any case, keep up the good work!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks  just got the bean weevils from Colinm today (massive thankyou to you too!), cant wait to try him on those tonight. They certainly look promising!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

I think I just need to start one, single, long running thread of 'What Drayvan and the Toad did next!' :lol2:

Anyways, 3rd night in a row to eat, no more stretchy skin flaps down his sides! Hopefully thats the last il see of the toad bingo wings :2thumb: Hes worked his way through 2 bean weevils and (possibly) a cricket!

And done another poo... 

He keeps bumping his nose on the tub hes in, so iv bought him a bigger one. Not sure whether the extra space will put him off eating again so im going to wait until hes had a week of eating then move him, just in case.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Moved him up to two feeds a day now. 6 crickets and a bean weevil over the last few hours :2thumb:

The other 2 Green toads are working their way through the bloodworm as we speak, I got a paintbrush and painted some on to their piece of Mopani wood... theyre lined up like its a breakfast bar :lol2: So at least that wasn't a waste of pennies!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Moved him up to two feeds a day now. 6 crickets and a bean weevil over the last few hours :2thumb:
> 
> The other 2 Green toads are working their way through the bloodworm as we speak, I got a paintbrush and painted some on to their piece of Mopani wood... theyre lined up like its a breakfast bar :lol2: So at least that wasn't a waste of pennies!


 Good thinking, Batman!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Good thinking, Batman!


Waste not want not and all that, even the salamanders taken to the bloodworm now :whistling2: 

You wouldn't think it was the same toad when you look at him now....getting nice and chunky now :gasp: and for some reason, much more brightly coloured then the other two!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Well he's still with us :2thumb: still skinny but still going strong. Moved him into his new larger tub, which immediately stopped him eating, after a period of settling in and being left alone hi still refused food and so he's back in his cricket tub, and gone back to eating again :bash: Guess he's not ready to move house yet!


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Well he's still with us :2thumb: still skinny but still going strong. Moved him into his new larger tub, which immediately stopped him eating, after a period of settling in and being left alone hi still refused food and so he's back in his cricket tub, and gone back to eating again :bash: Guess he's not ready to move house yet!


Think i mentioned elsewhere that Bufonoid toads seem to be a little more intelligent than most frogs- maybe that means they are a little more neurotic, too? :lol2:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> Think i mentioned elsewhere that Bufonoid toads seem to be a little more intelligent than most frogs- maybe that means they are a little more neurotic, too? :lol2:


:lol2: id be inclined to agree with you, I seem to have a toad with OCD! Unless I follow a strict pattern with his meals he wont eat them :crazy: and he appears very attached to his cricket box... He seems to be aware he has me wrapped around his little finger and is very willing to abuse the power!

Slowly but surely hes growing in bulk, can still see bones sticking out but there's some definite padding now!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Well, it seems that he has developed quite an appetite now and I don't have to wait with him for 10 minutes before he starts to eat. Also don't have to pick out the smallest of the small crickets now, he will happily take the larger size 2s. Really glad how well he's doing, today especially seeing as he has the energy to try to escape across the carpet.... little bugger :blush: As of a couple of days ago, he has actually started to hunt, rather than wait for the crickets and bean weevils to walk past. Seeing as he was sharing my Horned Frogs heat mat, I was worried he was just copying what Lemon did! :lol2:

Although its depressed me quite a bit to hear that his siblings aren't doing so well in their new home. But I guess when they have hundreds and hundreds of young, its expected that not all thrive.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Drayvan said:


> Well, it seems that he has developed quite an appetite now and I don't have to wait with him for 10 minutes before he starts to eat. Also don't have to pick out the smallest of the small crickets now, he will happily take the larger size 2s. Really glad how well he's doing, today especially seeing as he has the energy to try to escape across the carpet.... little bugger :blush: As of a couple of days ago, he has actually started to hunt, rather than wait for the crickets and bean weevils to walk past. Seeing as he was sharing my Horned Frogs heat mat, I was worried he was just copying what Lemon did! :lol2:
> 
> Although its depressed me quite a bit to hear that his siblings aren't doing so well in their new home. But I guess when they have hundreds and hundreds of young, its expected that not all thrive.


In a natural spawning- especially a bufonoid one, where eggs are produced in their thousands- the vast majority of offspring won't survive, let alone thrive.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> In a natural spawning- especially a bufonoid one, where eggs are produced in their thousands- the vast majority of offspring won't survive, let alone thrive.


True, very true. Its a shame but guess its inevitable, and if I plan on breeding them in the future I'll have to get used to not all of them surviving. Think im just having a girly moment :blush:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Thought id put some more pictures up now he's put on a little bit more weight. All three are developing their parotid glands :2thumb: which I never noticed on them before! Which is cool. Also for some reason, the thinner one is much brighter than the other two... im assuming its the difference in substrate, but I dont know :blush: anyway, here he is now. This is him 'chunky' if you can believe it!


























And the other two...who havent really changed much since last time :lol2:










Still not much sign of the BB toads though :blush:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

You'll find their colour varies a lot; according to light levels, temperatures, background and time of day. Don't let it worry you.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Ron Magpie said:


> You'll find their colour varies a lot; according to light levels, temperatures, background and time of day. Don't let it worry you.


Thats good to know, the little one has more light than the other two so that would explain that :2thumb: im loving his little red spots, so pretty :flrt:
Ooo and for the first time in absolute ages, he wiggled his toes again when I fed him today!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Thought i'd put up another update on the little toad in case anyone was wondering how he was doing. I was really expecting the next update to be to tell you all that he had finally succumb to what ever has been wrong with him. However, im happy to say that after several weeks of reaching a certain point then refusing food and losing all the weight he gained and starting from square one again I finally managed to get him over the stumbling block! and entirely by accident too :blush: one day I thought I would see how he would react to a large number of crickets, as before they would terrify him and he wouldn't eat for a few days. So I put him in with about 7 of them with the intention of sitting and watching to make sure he was ok. Then one of my snakes bulbs blew, so seeing as I had just fed them, off I shot to various shops looking for the right one completely forgetting about the little toad. When I finally noticed him in his little feeding tub all 7 crickets were gone :gasp: so every day since I've put him in the tub and left him to it for a few hours and he's now putting away about 14 bugs a day (including his nemesis, the fruit fly!!) not sure what changed as I've always just left him to get on with it with the 2/3 crickets he normally struggled with (normally leaving at least one) but he's actually quite porky now and very healthy looking. Think it's time that he had a name, I've been putting it off as it's considered bad luck and I didn't want to jinx his progress :whistling2:

So in short... eace::cheers::jump: .... im rather happy :lol2:


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

That's great! :2thumb::no1::2thumb:


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## terryTHEfrog (Oct 21, 2012)

What about dusting the food with the calcium powders and such like 

Do you do that for frogs and toads


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

terryTHEfrog said:


> What about dusting the food with the calcium powders and such like
> 
> Do you do that for frogs and toads


Yes, we do.


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

terryTHEfrog said:


> What about dusting the food with the calcium powders and such like
> 
> Do you do that for frogs and toads


Yup, what Ron said 

And thanks Ron, Im pretty chuffed! Although I've lost count of the times the little buggers nearly scarpered under the bed. These little toads shift surprisingly fast! :gasp: Gone are the days I could let him have a little poke around outside his cricket box :lol2: tank upgrade soon methinks!


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