# Reptile shop keepers help please please please please please



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

*Reptile shop keepers help please please please please please*

Hiya guys,
I am going to word this the best I can but I am somewhat vacant/disstracted by our dire situation at the moment so please Bare with me.
Some of you may know me and Trese have recently become unemployed
following a Fall out with my family who happen to be our employers.

Among many other possible ideas [none of which look good [or liekly] to be honest, the thought of opening our own reptile shop has came to mind.

Please dont think I am not giving this thought and just looking for someone to tell me what to do.
Fact is, I have so much wishing through my head right now and nothing seems hopefull atall, im having trouble getting things into context.

For those of you who have opened up your own reptile stores [or anyone else who knows about the following things] please could you help me out on a few things.
Any additonal info or comments are gladly received ofcourse.

This is a desperate time for us, but id like to point out that this idea has been on the table for a while, i had just decided to wait till we had some money saved first...that now isnt looking likely so without further hesitation...

HOW DID YOU FIND SUPPLIERS FOR EQUIPMENT, VIVS ETC?
any companys you can point me in the direction of would be great.

DID YOU GO DIRECTLY TO THE MANUFACTURERS, IE ZOO MED, T-REX ETC? [or there distributors]
or did you find local wholesalers?
ofcourse goes without saying id like to know who they are lol.

HOW HAS THE MARK UP PROVEN? HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO COMPETE WITH ONLINE PRICES?

AS FIR LIVE STOCK...
HAVE YOU BEEN BUYING IN HATCHLINGS/JUVIS OR HAVE YOU FOUND PEOPLE WANT GROWN ON ANIMALS?
AGAIN, HOWS THE MARK UP PROVEN?
HAVE YOU FOUND THAT A LOWER PRICE = QUICKER TURNOVER ETC?
OR HAVE YOU FOUND THAT THE PRICE OF THE ANIMAL ITESELF IS SECONDRY TO THE SET UP?

Have you started, or do you think its viable to breed your own livestock to some extent?

HAVE YOU SIMPLY EQUALED THAT OF THE LOCAL COMPETITION?

On another note, have you got much competion in your area and do you belive that you have done/are doing better than the rest locally and can you put this down to you knowing more than the others?
better prices?
more variety?
or do you think joe public doesnt even notice?


As far as vivs go have you had a company build them for you? [any national comp you can mention] have you gone for purpose built stacks or single vivs on shelving units/racking?

Have you set up the vivs as you would at home or done it more simlistic for the shop?
have you for instance used a seperate thermostat in each viv or went more on a general principle or heated the shop instead for the most part?

If applicable have you found the customers to be impressed by large well decorated display vivs [inc animals] showing what they can achieve at home?


likewise have you found this a waste of time and resources?

again, i think i already asked...but livestock mark up ok?

Have you enforced any "prove you know what your doing" policy before selling animals?
has this lost you custom if so?

have things went better than expected?
likewise do you think yourv made a mistake?
additional details welcome ofcourse, always interested.

HAVE YOU OPENED A REPTILE/HERP ONLY STORE OR AN AQUARIUM ALSO?
EITHER WAY DO YOU THINK THIS WAS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO AND WHY?

LOCATION WISE-
Have you went for a busy, town centre location or more a backstret or residential area?
why?
hows it working out?
would you change things?
closest oposition?

roughly how big is your store?
sqft wise or other is fine 
if your doing FISH also what percentage of live stock space is reps/fish.?

What have your start up costs been?
did you get a loan from the bank [biz or personal] and if so was it for the full amount or did you have your own savings?
was it very dificult to get a loan?

how hard did you have to work to convince the loaner on something i assume they knew little about?
did rep shop fit into any categorie they had or was it a big issue to get a unique plan together?

ofcourse if someone wants to let me have a peep at a business plan itd be inspirational im sure.

LICENSING-
Someone mentioned this... saying they had or would have had trouble getting suppliers until they had the license.. was this just for live stock or for everything?
any particullar companys that were harsher than others?
more info on these procedures would be nice.

less urgent points...
have you gone for all CB animals of have you found it easier/necesary to stock some WC species?

I cant read the rest of my hand writing on my notes i made so im kinda gona have to finish now although i know ive missed some stuff out...

Please help guys, im not lazy, im just in a load of trouble and im looking at my options here, i dont want to have to give notice on our house, go down and claim benefits etc and i dont think we would get much help anyway, i also dont want to have to do anything questionable 

please advise me where you can.
Many, many thanks.

Dean


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

bump


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## Dexter (Jun 24, 2005)

Nice one Dean, you finally put the thread up. Maybe you should put up a thread in off topic and snakes to give you more exposure for this thread here


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

I think i best...im having no luck yet.. lol..
things are so bad right now i dont know what to do, lol, it would be no harder for me to set up a bizness [money/loan prohibiting] than to get a job in mcdonalds lol so im thinking about it... but shop owners input on the above things is vital to my decision to be honest... and im running out of time [and food]


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## Kellybee (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi both, similarly to yourself we are just getting our business plan together. I have a list as long as my arm of suppliers, some of whom have agreed to open us an account prior to the issuing of a license. I dont mind giving you everything I have, there are about half a dozen people who have, with no reservation helped us loads, the very least we can do is help the next guy along the path...... We cant answer most of your questions, because we havent got to the opening of shop, but if you'd like to MSN chat just send me your details on PM

Good luck with the rest of your questions, I'm sure people will help, they have helped us no end x x


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## crosby (Jun 6, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the job front Razor, I've been there and it's not much fun. I went and signed up with an agency just doing small short term stuff to keep the money coming in until I found something.

Can't help on the actual points raised your post but have you tried contacting a reptile shop to have a chat with them? If you can speak to a good one and explain that you are not setting up in direct competition to them then they may be open to talking to you and helping with your questions.


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## della.g (Nov 5, 2006)

Right i'll try to give you some pointers but i'm probably not the best person to help you on some things but here's my imput.
I am the manageress at The Tropical Team in Gateshead. The owner is Tom Halvorsen who is an importer, so we kind of are our own supplier of livestock as before we opened as a shop we were already a wholesaler.
I can point you in the direction of dry goods suppliers but i would do this by PM. Where are you? (location) i might know some local wholesalers.Dealing with the manufactuers direct is'nt very easy we found.
Online prices are always cheaper IMO because most online shops usually don't have the same overheads.Lots of people are happy to pay a little more if they can walk into a shop and look at something before they buy.
i find you have to stock animals at different sizes but i would say more of the hatchlings and juveniles as people usually want to see the animals grow.
I don't believe in the "price things as cheap as possible" If someone can't afford an animal priced at what it's worth then they can't really afford to keep it and the people who know they can get stuff cheaper already will be buying their stuff privately from breeders and classifieds and would only buy from a shop if it was something they can't get elsewhere.
Breeding your own livestock is a great idea if your shop would'nt have to suffer because you are busy with the breeding. Mark up on some things is better than others it just depends on whats available near you already.
 We have quite a bit competition near us but i think if you are pleasant to people and not arrogant or pushy then people will just find who they get on with better and usually stick with better. Don't worry about how good other shops are doing if you know that you are doing the best you can.
As for viv's then we have a selection for our displays. It's always good to use what you are trying to sell. For instance we use quite a few exo-terra vivs and we find thats what we sell the most of. If you keep animals in the shop in the same type of vivs you sell and they look happy and healthy people will want it the same as yours.Setting up the vivs the same as you would at home is probably not quite what you would want for every viv as it's sometimes very time consuming trying to check all the animals are doing ok when you have lots to check so we usually decorate the vivs maybe less than you would at home but still making sure the animals have everything they need to be healthy and happy.We use a space heater as well as thermostatically heating the vivs individually. Heat the room to the temp that is good for the lowest temp requirement animal. Then individually for each animal in question.A few well done display vivs always looks nice and gives people an idea of how it could be for them.
Make sure you know that the person buying the animal knows what they are doing and supply them with a care sheet so they can refer to it just telling people is'nt enough as they usually forget with the excitement of their new animal.Have a good selection of not too expensive books and try to advise people to buy the book first if they are going to pay over £100 for a setup/animal then they are usually willing to spend £5 on a book. Some people obviously should'nt keep animals and they usually make it pretty obvious as soon as they speak to you. It's up to you wether you still sell them something or not.
No i don't think opening a shop was a mistake but don't set your expectations too high then you can't be disappointed.
We do both reptiles and tropical fish as this was what we did anyway and don't regret it. Don't cram loads of stuff into a small space only keep what you comfortably have room for.
We are in a warehouse on an industrial estate so we have no passing trade at all so we rely heavily on advertising which is'nt cheap. Why? because it was the only place big enough to do what we wanted.
You can always improve and it's good to see thing expanding with the business. Our closest opposition is about 5 mins away by car. We have a good relationship with the owner and we do compare prices now and again but don't do the "price war" thing.
We do fish as well probably use 70% space for fish and 30% for reps but remember our shop is a warehouse so we have lots of space.
We spend a lot of money setting up but already had the wholesale business so we used a lot of the things we already had and it still cost thousands and to be honest we've never really added up a total spend yet.
You could apply to the princes trust for a grant or go see the bank manager and see if they can offer you any help but you will need a business plan for any of these.
Without a valid pet shop license it's pretty much impossible to get any pricelists from anyone so personally you need premises first and then apply for a license.
A mixture of CB and WC but mostly CB.
Think about things properly don't rush into things. If you don't do it properly in the first place it costs you twice to put things right. Start small and grow with time. Don't try to run before you can crawl. Prepare yourself for lots of hard work, long hours and a boat load of stress and good luck.

Hope thats some help.
Della


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## nicky (Jul 13, 2005)

have you looked in andyb5's post, give him a bell.....


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## steelblue (Nov 29, 2006)

cant help a lot on the shop running front, but the one thing i would mention from a customers point of veiw:

Go for CB wherever possible!. Myself and a few fellow rep fans tend to boycott the WC stock. a shop close to us stocks only CB, some of which he breeds himself, but mostly sourced from local breeders. hes both popular and successful. Sadly, one of the other more local shops near me seems to stock a lot of WC, which puts me off visiting from the outset. Just an personal ethical veiwpoint, but certaily worth bearing in mind from a business point of veiw.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Thanks for your replies guys... been a mission today.

We only have one shop in Ipswich, its a rep/tropical fish, mammal etc and they have been there a long time [ive been goin there 13 years] and have grown quite a bit recently, they arent very good though, thier level of care for the reps in particular is bad.

We have lots of ideas, thansk for everyopnes input, we will keep asking questions and be in touch with various ppl for advice in the comin days.

Many thanks again
Dean


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

hi there you gave me some advice on my topic only fair to return it,as a new owner as you know ive had loads of trouble locating a local reptile shop it seems they all cater for fish firstly then a little bit for reptiles so you should do well anywhere you obviously have the knowledge which my local shop lacks! i actually own a small retail business nothing to do with what youd be doing,obviously or i wouldnt be asking so many leo questions but ive found the key is knowing your stuff,people appreciate good advice you soon build up a rep for this and from what ive heard from you,you know your stuff,ive a small website too get the word round and 1 person will tell another,i know this aint much help business wise in what youre trying to achieve but a little insight from some1 who has a shop,i wish you all the best and this from my experience is a shop thats greatly needed,i was in there 15 mins max and at least 10 people came in for crix etc its a huge possible market! i sell wet fish by the way my husband catches it i sell it,no big deal but we do ok the key is knowledge,regards Sam aka badgers mum


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi badgers mum.
Fish eh? sweet.
Thanks for your advice, ive been in retail [small independant, not big comp] for 9 years since i left school and know most aspects of er... people mentality and the sort of shit estate agents give you, I am now fully aware that in most cases the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing because the left hand is too busy fingering the right hands boss... anyway sorry bit of "Council" humour there.
Where in Suffolk are you?

Della g.
Sorry, read through your post after you posted it but meant to respond to you directly.
We are in Ipswich, we have One Rep shop which also does tropical fish and has a section for birds, rodents, etc also.
They are well established but the general feel of the place is one of "we r not bothered" and its fairly dank to say the least.
Any suppliers you can point us in the direction of would be great, we have already made a few GOOD contacts, and found plenty of mediocre suppliers, I can say with confidents that if we got the business loan tomorow we would be marching full steam ahead and not stopping for much.
However, untill we have looked at every supplier of everything we cannot consider ther business plan done and we are still hoping to find a couple more "really good ones"
So please yes, if you could pm us that would be superb, infact ill pm you this post to make sure you see it.


Oh and a couple ppl mentioned about CB,WC etc and we will most probably stick entirely with CB but if an "inteligent reason" comes about to stock something that is either CF or WC comes along it will be considered.

Thanks all.
Dean


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

im in kessingland suffolk.our nearest shop for reptile supplies is lowestoft they are pretty good but you know how it is its nice to get specialist advice as you wouldnt be too far away from me.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Cool.
Yes we would/will be setting up in Ipswich.


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

im hopeless at directions but getting a tomtom 4 xmas hooray! so fingers crossed you get up and running and ill find my way there!


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## cornmorphs (Jan 28, 2005)

i just got one.. lol, i seemed to manage ok without it, but looking at it now i dont know how


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lol. i just asked trese wtf a tom tom was... its a gps apparently...one you can carry with you...i dont know some stuff............thats all.

we wont be open by xmas im afraid, 
would be nice lol


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## BADGERS MUM (Dec 5, 2006)

tom tom... for people like me who turn around and get lost! also what ive been thinking is as for competition thats not a worry we are set up on a working harbour with 2 other shops selling the same as us,the difference being we sell our own fish from our own boat people like this as they know its fresh,but like you said working with the public as you have since leaving school youll never please all the people all the time,i deal with some real w***ers sometimes but mostly the people who come to us do so because they get good honest advice and service,not like the bigger shops where the staff talk to each other and throw your change at you,im always painfully aware these people are paying my mortgage so when ive had a crap day im still smiling like a fool lol


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lol yeh... i am like that when im happy........ but often im swearing under my breath.
but i get the most annoyin customers of all time, dealin with the very lowest end of the market in many cases tobe honest, and it really takes it out of me at times.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2006)

DeanandTrese

Firstly and let me be honest with you here i found it extremely hard to open a reptile shop if possible you need to open up to a wider field which would also include aquatics and other pet foods etc.

When i opened my shop i put in 25k straight away to rent premises,buy insurance,equipment and stock.This turned out to be IMO no where near enough(i could have done with double the start up cash)

Suppliers of dry goods are fairly easy to sort out.The main supplier for southern England is Peregrine Livefoods.If you go to their website you can get a catalogue from them.They are cheaper than many of the suppliers such as ZooMed and Exo-Terra as you can get a trade discount depending on how much you spend with them also if your order is over £100 you get free TNT delivery and they also sell animals as well.Not the most competitive on animals but good for a fall back.Another good supplier is Monkfield Nutrition.

As for mark up you really need to be doubling the purchase price to stand a chance.I also spent 3 days a week travelling around the country to get livestock at the best prices from private breeders and this can be the best option for you to make a good profit(needed with all the bills to pay)

Beating website prices or local competitors is always going to be a hard thing to do unless you can shift a lot of stock.This way you can order more in getting larger discounts allowing you to undercut all the people you need to without losing your profit margin.


Remember that your biggest problems are going to be an accountant(get a bloody good one)The VAT man(turnovers of 50k need to be declared and you have to pay VAT)Fire extinguishers and then their upkeep and lastly public liability insurance(This can be a small fortune)Then with rent and rates you need to have a bloody good supplier base and an excellent client base.


This is the reason i say if possible do not limit yourselves to a reptile shop as you will only cater for a very small portion of the market go for the wider market where if reptile sale slacken of you have the other stock to fdall back on.

Hope this helps you out but if you need more info then shoot me a pm and i will see if i can help in any way.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi.
Thanks for your post.
We have Peregrine's catologue, have been comparing them for prices with another company i have a cat for monkfield nutrition, both do a good range of equipment and live foods.
We also have a couple offers on shop fitters etc and a couple for live stock but still need to find a lot more there.

We do plan to do Tropical Fish and possibly marine fish too, as much as i would prefer to simply do Herps.

I think 35k is about what we are going to aim for, a couple of wholesalers I have spoke to have said they think thatl be more than enough, one even said you can do it with 10k, but i dont know about that.

Vat and public liability, although a pain in the arse im already familiar with the workings off having handled it before for my parents comany.

I dont expect to beat online prices atall, however if someone is goin to buy online rather than from our shop [someone local i mean] id rather they bought from us so i wil be having a website with much reduced prices, however I wont be publicising it too much in store ofcourse.

LOL, just saw you also mentioned monkfield... lol ok cool, yeh prices seem very similar but ones cheaper on one, the other on another, both do one range the other doesnt [preg do lucky reptile and monkfield one im even less familair with]

As with all retail i suspected itd be a double up job and i can see thats possible with rep related goods aswell which is good to know, infact i see a higher mark up on alot of stuff, especially if bought at a reduced rate, particualrly live food, altho i dont supose its a huge turnover.

We also have plans to stock items you wouldnt usually see in a rep shop but we do buy for use with our reps, such as cat litter trays for the water baths, cheaper than a pet shop price, more than a wilconsins price kinda thing, poop scoops/sand siffs etc.

I can use my parents accountant.. but shes old so ill prolly get a new one.
However I am able to handle my own accounts, im well verserd in that kind of thing ,altho i would rather not have to do a lot of the leg work and stuff.

We have not yet secured a loan, which in my opinion is the only snag, im confident if we can get going with a decent amount of cash we will do very well.
I still have to do a lot of work on the tropical fish side as im out of the loop with them but ive been in touch with acouple comps and have a wholesaler who can, mif i request "just give me a good selection to get started with" which might save a lot of headache if things start to progress fairly fast.

Thanks Man.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2006)

Sounds good mate and in all honesty once you get started you will find that most of your sales will be for crix,mice etc so they would prob be about 60% of your turnover.

If you can possibly do it offer a very good price on complete setups with an animal.What you have to remember in the reptile trade is you have the initial layout and if it is done by someone you can trust completely they will return every week for food if they however are not satisfied with your sale commitment or you did not give the correct and enough info then they will go elsewhere for food.

I saw this all the time with a local petshop that diversified into reptiles.If people had known i was around they would not have touched the shop round the corner.Not only were we cheaper than them but we had a lot more knowledge to give as well.

I even used to say to people that they could come in and chat to us any time and have a cuppa.You would be amazed how many people took us up on the offer and not only do you have a new friend but also a customer for life


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

thats the thing ,theres only one place here in ipswich, and they are dire... they have hardly any live stock ever, lots of 4 ft boas that ppl have bought in and about 6 4 foot corns, always have a beardie of some sort with toes missing, usually a few years old, again what ppl bring in, sod all.
the next nearest is about 30 miles away and they are pretty good... but we can be much better.
A lot of ppl from ipswich do the 30 mile travel but they wont need too. .. hopefully.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Greenphase said:


> Sounds good mate and in all honesty once you get started you will find that most of your sales will be for crix,mice etc so they would prob be about 60% of your turnover.


which is cool cos i can do them [with the wholesale prices i have found] a lot cheaper than the competition around here and still be on well over a double up, almost a 200% mark up in fact [as in buy for £1 sell for £3]

Will give good deals, absolutely, and i wont limit the deal to "this, that, this one and that one right there in red" like other places do lol


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2006)

I think i know the place you are on about mate is it in the town centre just a little pet shop with a few reps thats the one we visited when we moved here about 5 years ago.And the other shop has to be along the A14 cant think of the name of it but it will come to me.

As for crickets etc they are around £2.40-£2.60 here mate so that seems to be the average for most places i would knock em out at aroung £2.25 a tub.

What we used to do as well was work out the lizard or snake setup price retail then knock of 15% of the price and then give a 20% discount on the animal if all bought together.This way you are not limiting the customer to one particular animal.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

its viking aqautics which is pretty much town centre, across the road from what was the odeaon cinema.

the next nearest is abbey aquatics which is also known as Stonham barnes, in stonham aspel.

Crix are 2.20 from viking but they buy them pre tubbed and they are left as they are, hard to find a tub with more alive than dead.

I think its best to buy bulk bags, feed them up, put a few tubs on the shelf and refill as needed.
That way they would all be alive, in clean tubs [they actually do it this way at stonham too] and gutloaded.

I would also like to promote the idea of keeping the crix in larger plastic cricket keepers and feeding them up as i dont think anyone round here knows about it to be honest.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2006)

Yea i know what you mean about buying bulk mate i used to do the same thing to start with but it took so bloody long to do it when we were ordering 500 tubs a week that i just started getting pre-packed.Try not to gut load the crix if you can help it.They have spent time in the tubs and then they go crazy on the food.They overfeed and dye of fairly fast if allowed to.Its always better to sell the bug grub etc to gut load the crix at home as you can do as many or as few as required.Cricket keepers are the best way to go or better still sell the medium or large geo tubs(cheaper to buy and better profit margin)Just tell people to put in a toilet roll holder.All they do then is cover one end permanatly tocreate a hide and cover the other end to remove some crix then put the rest back.


Damn im giving away all the trade secrets now :lol: :lol:


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lol, i know how to handle crix mate lol....locusts on the other hand....

I gutload all my crix, i buy them in the bags not already in tubs and next day delivery so they havent been long without food.. i honestly havent lost more than 3 crickets in the last 2 thousand i have had, and i feed them well.
also they hang around a couple weeks as our beardies arent exactly eating machines right now and savvy only eats about 40 every 3 days withher mice.

was planning on sellin bug grub, also thought about mixing bran with ground up cuttlefish and a bit of nutrobal [better if i can find a cheaper alternative to nutrobal] and do a bag full for half the price of the bug grub yet maintaining a much better mark up as you can get like 10kg of bran for a fiver or so from horsey places and cuttle fish 3 for £1.00.

i always use toilet roll holders rather than egg cartons, well toilet roll and kitchen roll tubes cut in half, sturdier, better size without cutting, easier to shake into a bag or another tub...bargain.

Shouldnt the crix be fine if i get them from somewhere who gutload them, as i do right now, they are themn only a short while without food, i uput them in big containers with food and hides, take them out and put soem in a tub with a little bran to sell.?


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2006)

Its alot of extra work for you mate but should go pretty well if prepared to put in the extra time.


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

i might end up gettin fed up but i can put a thousand crix into about ten seperate tubs in ten minutes so its not a huge amount of time, ofcourse we will be talking a good few thousand but still.
I can count out 100 morio in 3 mins also which by my workings out should be a good mark up if i buy bulk also, plus no dead ones hanging around lookin bad.

i feel really sorry for ppl who pay £2.30 for morio at our local and get about 30-40 of them and a load of shells... i always if i do have to buy from there spend a few mins pickin the best tubs and have got 130 once lol.. but usually 70-85 on the good ones with as littoe as 20 in some bad ones.

when i ordr 50g from livefoods i get over 100, i can get a kilo for something like £20 so imagine thats 2000 of them, if i charge £2.00 and give 100 then ill still be doubling up and given a good deal but it hink it worked out a lot better than that when i had the sheet in front of me earlier.

I couldnt aford to pay £2.20 or so for 20 live crix and 50 dead ones or for 30 morio...so how can i expect anyone else to?


i think viking is particulrly bad for this but at the end of the day they buy them pre tubed so its not even thier fault for the maounts..and not really for the dead ones as they just dont have a clue.


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