# DB's, RAPTOR's and Sunglows



## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

Right here's my quandry. I boguth 2 RAPTORs this year as a male and female, but both are looking female (now over 6 months and 41 and 56 grams). I alreadt have a sunglow male and intended to breed sunglows in one viv and RAPTOR's in the other. As i now have only female RAPTOR's what would be the best solution? 

Option 1 - Breed the 2 female RAPTOR's with my sunglow and hopefully get super bright orange het RAPTORS (or eclipse) and keep one male to breed back next year.

Does anyone know the outcomes of Sunglow x RAPTOR??

Option 2 - Try and find a male RAPTOR. Don't really wanna do this to be honest. Another £125 bill aint really that welcome at the min! 

OR

Option 3 - Buy a diablo blanco male??

Anyone know what the outcomes are or a DB x RAPTOR??

Can these produce RAPTORs??

Just looking at it from an investment point of view. Maybe invest in an expensive, but quality male and keep het DB females for breeding the year after??



If anyone can answer anything on here I'd be most grateful!! This question is posted on genetics and lizard chat to get most responses. Any help greatly appreciated


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Si4Geckos said:


> Right here's my quandry. I boguth 2 RAPTORs this year as a male and female, but both are looking female (now over 6 months and 41 and 56 grams). I alreadt have a sunglow male and intended to breed sunglows in one viv and RAPTOR's in the other. As i now have only female RAPTOR's what would be the best solution?
> 
> Option 1 - Breed the 2 female RAPTOR's with my sunglow and hopefully get super bright orange het RAPTORS (or eclipse) and keep one male to breed back next year.
> 
> ...


Right, well firstly if money is an issue, see if anyone wants to swap a male RAPTOR for your female RAPTOR?

A few people have been doing the sunglow x RAPTOR pairings to get red-eyed Sunglows. I know Redgex on here has hatched one at least.

If £125 for a male RAPTOR is too much I doubt a DB male is what you need  I think MJSGeckos have one for sale though aorund the £300 mark. If the DB came form RAPTOR lines (most probably) then you will have a chance at RAPTOR babies though, all will be 100% Tremper albino eclipse het Blizzard, just depends on the amount of patternless stripe and tangerine after that


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Talbino (SF)super hypo X Talbino eclipse patternless striped = .

50%Talbino (SF)hypo of type HET eclipse.Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.
50%Talbino normal HET eclipse.Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.
----
Talbino (DF)super hypo X Talbino eclipse patternless striped = .

100%Talbino (SF)hypo of type HET eclipse.Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.
----
----
Talbino eclipse patternless striped(RAPTOR) X Talbino eclipse blizzard(DB) = .

Possible offspring.

Talbino eclipse normal HET Bizzard.
Talbino eclipse aberrant HET Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse jungle HET Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse striped HET Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse reverse striped HET Blizzard.
Talbino eclipse patternless striped(RAPTOR) HET Blizzard.

All offspring Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.


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## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

I don't really want to swap either female RAPTOR as i'm rather attached now  I have emailed Redgex about producing red eyed sunglows, to see how they managed it/ how hard it is to do. But won't red eyed sunglows just look like raptors??? 

It was the DB on MJS i was looking at. I thought if i was gonna shell out a lotta pennies on another RAPTOR (£125 raptors didnt look that nice to be honest, prolly have to pay more for a male as nice as my ladies!), i may as well push the boat right out and get sumething total quality. But I do want to breed RAPTORs ideally this year. But next year if need be 



MrMike said:


> Right, well firstly if money is an issue, see if anyone wants to swap a male RAPTOR for your female RAPTOR?
> 
> A few people have been doing the sunglow x RAPTOR pairings to get red-eyed Sunglows. I know Redgex on here has hatched one at least.
> 
> If £125 for a male RAPTOR is too much I doubt a DB male is what you need  I think MJSGeckos have one for sale though aorund the £300 mark. If the DB came form RAPTOR lines (most probably) then you will have a chance at RAPTOR babies though, all will be 100% Tremper albino eclipse het Blizzard, just depends on the amount of patternless stripe and tangerine after that


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## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

Sorry to be a bit slow but what does SF, DF and Poly'HET mean??

Cheers for the reply! :2thumb:



gazz said:


> Talbino (SF)super hypo X Talbino eclipse patternless striped = .
> 
> 50%Talbino (SF)hypo of type HET eclipse.Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.
> 50%Talbino normal HET eclipse.Poly'HET Jungle,Striped,Reverse striped,Patternless striped,Tangerine.
> ...


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Si4Geckos said:


> I don't really want to swap either female RAPTOR as i'm rather attached now  I have emailed Redgex about producing red eyed sunglows, to see how they managed it/ how hard it is to do. But won't red eyed sunglows just look like raptors???
> 
> It was the DB on MJS i was looking at. I thought if i was gonna shell out a lotta pennies on another RAPTOR (£125 raptors didnt look that nice to be honest, prolly have to pay more for a male as nice as my ladies!), i may as well push the boat right out and get sumething total quality. But I do want to breed RAPTORs ideally this year. But next year if need be


This is a thread Redgex previewed his REAL geckos

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/218041-red-eyed-sunglow-leo.html

I personally really like them 

I know what you mean about "poorer" quality RAPTORS, alot of yellow/patterned ones flying around, and really nice ones tend to cost. The DB MJS have came direct from RT, so there is a chance at RAPTORS from a RAPTOR x DB pairing.


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Si4Geckos said:


> Sorry to be a bit slow but what does SF, DF and Poly'HET mean??
> 
> Cheers for the reply! :2thumb:


Single factor(one copy).
Double factor(Two copy).

Polygenetic trait (linebred).Poly'HET means the traits can be inherted in a recessive manner but not to be mistaken for simple recessive.

Simple recessive.
Albino X Albino = 100%Albino.

Polygenetic recessive.
Striped X Striped = Result can vary some time 100%striped.Most likly just a good amount striped.


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## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

Ha ha- it seems I asked similar questions when i saw that thread way back whenever it was produced. How shameful my 24 yr old memory is! lol.

I'm guessing they're likely to be varying quality (more likely poorer quality) RAPTORs from a DB x RAPTOR than a RAPTOR x RAPTOR pairing as they are't pure bred?? I'm after producing orangey leos, both sunglows and raptors, the more orange the better! 

Think I may go for the sunglow x RAPTOR pairing and see how the babies turn out and keep the best male for the following year  If what i think is true about qaulity it won't make sense to shell out on a DB or average RAPTOR male. 



MrMike said:


> This is a thread Redgex previewed his REAL geckos
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/218041-red-eyed-sunglow-leo.html
> 
> ...


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

The patternl;es stripe in RAPTOR is polygenetic, along with tangerine. So you will always get varying amounts of "quality" in these traits anyway.


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## Si4Geckos (Oct 8, 2008)

Can u explain what exactly a patternless strip is? Does it just mean a paler colour down the spine? Rather than spots? I could never understand how something could be striped if it had no pattern!



MrMike said:


> The patternl;es stripe in RAPTOR is polygenetic, along with tangerine. So you will always get varying amounts of "quality" in these traits anyway.


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Si4Geckos said:


> Can u explain what exactly a patternless strip is? Does it just mean a paler colour down the spine? Rather than spots? I could never understand how something could be striped if it had no pattern!


I think (will be corrected if wrong)that is is a stripe that has been bred out to create a patternless animal.


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## sam12345 (Dec 28, 2007)

I think its just patternless stripe, as it hatches striped but turns patternless again i may be wrong but the stripe will never usually influence enough to show when the offspring mature.
Its usually just the tail of the influenced offspring that show any signs off the trait.

Oh and have a look on hermans herps they had some sunglows het raptors which would be useful for your aims.
Sunglows het eclipse, more RAPTORS (probably lower end), albinos and they should all be of a nice orange hue!


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Si4Geckos said:


> Can u explain what exactly a patternless strip is? Does it just mean a paler colour down the spine? Rather than spots? I could never understand how something could be striped if it had no pattern!


A true patternless striped is in fact a patternless reverse striped.This is a reverse striped where a stripe of spots down the spine is bred out.

Reverse striped









Patternless striped-aka-patternless reverse striped.


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