# Essex show cancelled



## slidersiren

I just recieved an email from International Animal Rescue (even though I asked them to remove me from there list) saying that Brentwood council as stopped the show. Its also on there website: Do the organizers know about this? 

International Animal Rescue News

September 2009

Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School

The Animal Protection Agency and International Animal Rescue have praised Brentwood Borough Council and Shenfield High School for disallowing a reptile market that would have taken place at the school on Sunday 27 September 2009.

The selling of pets at markets was outlawed in under Section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951 to prevent animal suffering. However, reptile markets involving large-scale law-breaking have been taking place around the country due to poor Local Authority enforcement. The Council and the school were provided with evidence that there would be trading at the proposed event and took swift action to prevent it. Evidence that reptile markets pose a significant threat to human health was also presented to the Council and the school.

Said Animal Protection Agency spokesperson, Elaine Toland:

"We commend the Council and the school for taking this decision. The outcome is obviously good news for the animals and they have acted in the best interests of the children who use the school."

Appalling animal welfare conditions have been documented at recent reptile markets. There is very little regard for control of temperature, ventilation and humidity or for the cage furnishings necessary to provide for important biological and behavioural needs whilst the animals are on display. Reptiles and amphibians are not suited to captivity and do not adapt. Therefore, these animals suffer substantial trauma when traded under such poor conditions.

The animal protection groups are concerned that the reptile club will now attempt to organise an illegal underground market. They appeal for any information, particularly from venue managers in the area, and urge them not to be coaxed into facilitating this type of event.

The Animal Protection Agency is an organisation focused on ceasing the trade in wild animals as pets. They work closely with International Animal Rescue, which saves animals all over the world by intercepting the activities of wildlife dealers.

For more background information or for photographs, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 / 07986 535024.

Post to: del.icio.us | Digg | Facebook | reddit | StumbleUpon
< Back to News


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## fishboy

I'd wait for an organiser to comment before believing it. There was an email sent round before one of the previous shows to all the sellers stating the show was cancelled and that turned out to be an attempt by animal rights activists to stop sellers attending.


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## Lotus Nut

Could be a spoof again - here is link to their page International Animal Rescue : News: Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu

Our good friend Elaine Tolland up to tricks again!


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## slidersiren

I just put the phone down to IAR and they say they will remove me from the list IN DUE COURSE!! I've told them that there activities on the shows will loose them a lot of supporters, and they should think carefully about what there doing. They gave me the number of the Council so will call them now...


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu

slidersiren said:


> I just put the phone down to IAR and they say they will remove me from the list IN DUE COURSE!! I've told them that there activities on the shows will loose them a lot of supporters, and they should think carefully about what there doing. They gave me the number of the Council so will call them now...


Just make sure you're not provided with a spoof council number!


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## MSL

I am in ERAC and I havent heard anything.
I have just got in touch with the chairman and will let you know in due course if this is a hoax.


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## Meko

fishboy said:


> I'd wait for an organiser to comment before believing it. There was an email sent round before one of the previous shows to all the sellers stating the show was cancelled and that turned out to be an attempt by animal rights activists to stop sellers attending.


sounds about right because they've called it a 'market' and referred to the law regarding markets and the selling of reptiles. A bit of word twisting can make any old bullshit sound credible.
I think that Elaine bird needs to get laid, she seems a bit too uptight. A good old seeing too should remove some of the tension and relax her a bit.


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## slidersiren

Ok i've stopped swearing now and am taking deep breaths. 

Its not a hoax. I just had a surreal converasation with a woman at the council (01277 312500). I kept telling her it wasn't a market but she said that the council and the school decided it can't go ahead.


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## abandonallhope

The last thread you posted about kidminister being cancelled turned out to be false, out of four threads you have created, 3 are about shows, two of which are about them being cancelled.

Forgive me if you are genuine but this sounds somewhat suspect.....

Can someone actually involved in the show confirm or disprove this infomation?


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## xxmykyxx

> Reptiles and amphibians are not suited to captivity and do not adapt.


So much stupidity. It's like my friend saying "Don't snakes eat people?!"


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## Lisasgeckonursery

No offence but as you have only joined recently i think i'll wait to hear from someone with a bit more credibility.


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## abandonallhope

Ok guys, I have actually just got off the phone with the school where the event is held.

At the present time they do have the show down as cancelled, unfortunatly the lady did not know the full details.

Watch this space.


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## Meko

about_a_girluk said:


> No offence but as you have only joined recently i think i'll wait to hear from someone with a bit more credibility.


i was thinking that.. not that i'd be going anyway but it seems strange that somebody signs up in July, around the start of the reptile shows and breeding season etc. Has 25 posts yet started 2 threads on shows not taking place and according to their profile.

*slidersiren







*

*Hatchling*


Send Message








User Lists








Last Activity: Today 10:50 AM 
Current Activity: Viewing Thread Royal morphs available - Hampshire / ERAC Show Sept 27th 


ooh look, they're checking out yet another show thread.. You reckon that one will be 'cancelled' soon?

Somebody with a suspicious nature could be led to think they're an animal activist trying to cause problems on the forums.


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## Ian.g

this is absolutely rediculous!...i wish these animal rights do-gooders would open their eyes!! especially with the comments about reptiles and amphibians not adapting to captivity!...what a load of utter bull sh*t!!! it is FACT that when kept correctly captive reptiles (i know little of amphibians so cant comment) thrive!...they generally live longer, most breed readily, and live a perfectly "happy, normal life" as long as catered for correctly!...i see more dogs and cats living horrible depraved lives than reptiles!....


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## slidersiren

I don't really care if you believe i'm genuine or not actually alhtough infighting won't help us. I've kept herps for many years starting off with terrapins and tortoises and love going to the shows when I can get the time off work.

Yes, I also support animal welfare causes but not when groups interfere with peoples rights to keep animals. I will do everything I can to defend my hobby.


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## Lotus Nut

slidersiren said:


> Ok i've stopped swearing now and am taking deep breaths.
> 
> Its not a hoax. I just had a surreal converasation with a woman at the council (01277 312500). I kept telling her it wasn't a market but she said that the council and the school decided it can't go ahead.



Virtually ALL their posts have been about cancelled shows!! VERY suspect - check them!


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## abandonallhope

Lotus Nut said:


> Virtually ALL their posts have been about cancelled shows!! VERY suspect - check them!


I'm gald I'm not the only one who thought this, I wasn't sure if I should have posted my earlier suspicions glad I did now.

Funny how she knew before anyone else the show is cancelled. 

I hope the infomation I got from the school where it's due to be held was wrong,* although the lady I spoke to did say it was due to the ecoli issues - NOT anything to do with the legality of rep shows.*


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## Meko

i like this one..

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/rept...dderminster-show-cancelled-8.html#post4450258



> I also called the express and star and talked about how important my hobby is in my life. HOpefully it will be a postive piece.


profile:
Reptile & Exotic Pets tommi (red eared slider) 

they phoned the papers to tell them how important the hobby is in their life but they've only got a turtle.


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## Lisasgeckonursery

Looks like its still on :2thumb:


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## wohic

about_a_girluk said:


> Looks like its still on :2thumb:



bloody hell I was just about to see if I could pull in a favour from someone with a huge house and we could all go round 'for coffee' on that day and meet up with our lovely animals



where did you get the info from and what is it ?


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## MSL

abandonallhope said:


> The last thread you posted about kidminister being cancelled turned out to be false, out of four threads you have created, 3 are about shows, two of which are about them being cancelled.
> 
> Forgive me if you are genuine but this sounds somewhat suspect.....
> 
> Can someone actually involved in the show confirm or disprove this infomation?


 I can't get hold of anyone at the minute but as soon as they get my e-mails I will let you know......i think I would have known if it was cancelled because I am supposed to be meeting everyone there at 7am to help set up!!!!

Very suspect info being given here i think but you never know.......it will be proved or disproved soon enough.


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## abandonallhope

about_a_girluk said:


> Looks like its still on :2thumb:


No mate, it looks like it is genuinly cancelled.

Wait for one of the organisers to confirm though.


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## Meko

it was a great post wasn't it Wohic.. no info or anything, would have been as much use posting a picture of a badger.. 
Especially after somebody else has spoken to the school who confirmed it had been cancelled for ecoli issues.


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## jav07

Meko said:


> i was thinking that.. not that i'd be going anyway but it seems strange that somebody signs up in July, around the start of the reptile shows and breeding season etc. Has 25 posts yet started 2 threads on shows not taking place and according to their profile.
> 
> *slidersiren image *
> 
> *Hatchling*
> 
> 
> Send Message image
> User Lists image
> Last Activity: Today 10:50 AM
> Current Activity: Viewing Thread Royal morphs available - Hampshire / ERAC Show Sept 27th
> 
> 
> ooh look, they're checking out yet another show thread.. You reckon that one will be 'cancelled' soon?
> 
> Somebody with a suspicious nature could be led to think they're an animal activist trying to cause problems on the forums.


 i have a suspicious nature:devil: and was thinking the same


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## abandonallhope

MSL said:


> I can't get hold of anyone at the minute but as soon as they get my e-mails I will let you know......i think I would have known if it was cancelled because I am supposed to be meeting everyone there at 7am to help set up!!!!
> 
> Very suspect info being given here i think but you never know.......it will be proved or disproved soon enough.


Keep us updated hun, very very suspect. Wouldn't be the first time someone has joined from one of the anti rep keeping groups in an attempt to casue trouble.

I hope I am wrong about the op and will appologise to her if I am but .......


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## abandonallhope

Meko said:


> it was a great post wasn't it Wohic.. no info or anything, would have been as much use posting a picture of a badger..
> Especially after somebody else has spoken to the school who confirmed it had been cancelled for ecoli issues.












Don't take my post as being 100% though, the lady MIGHT have been wrong but that was the info that came directly from the school reception.


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## wohic

Meko said:


> it was a great post wasn't it Wohic.. no info or anything, would have been as much use posting a picture of a badger..
> Especially after somebody else has spoken to the school who confirmed it had been cancelled for ecoli issues.



my thoughts exactly

tell you what though If indeed it is canceled there really is NOTHING to stop us all meeting up as friends somewhere


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## slidersiren

What is it with you guys?? I found out before most people because I'm still on the IAR list DUUURR!! And excuse me but i said I STARTED with pins to and torties and now have beardies, leos and a newly aquired royal python!! I don't like to shout about what I have because I had two of my tortoises stolen last year, which was REALLY traumatic.


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## Meko

nobody on here knows where you live to steal anything from you


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## Meko

Actually i must apologise for thinking that you may have something to do with it, i was clearly wrong.





slidersiren said:


> What is it with you guys?? I found out before most people because I'm still on the IAR list *DUUURR*!! And excuse me but i said I STARTED with pins to and torties and now have beardies, leos and a newly aquired royal python!! I don't like to shout about what I have because I had two of my tortoises stolen last year, which was REALLY traumatic.


because you're obviously only 7 years old.


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## abandonallhope

Meko said:


> Actually i must apologise for thinking that you may have something to do with it, i was clearly wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because you're obviously only 7 years old.


Meko, thats very mean.

I :lol2:'ed anyway.


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## Meko

ah come on.. who over the age of 7 says duuuurrrr


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## slidersiren

I know no-one knows where I live but I'm hyper paranoid now. Not unlike some people on this forum!! I recently moved house, partly because I couldnt get over the break in, and moved my animals in to the new house in the dead of night so none of the neighbours could see what I had.


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## Lisasgeckonursery

Meko said:


> it was a great post wasn't it Wohic.. no info or anything, would have been as much use posting a picture of a badger..
> Especially after somebody else has spoken to the school who confirmed it had been cancelled for ecoli issues.


 must have looked at the wrong show that she was posting about :blush: nice use of sarcasm tho guys:bash:


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## MJ75

slidersiren said:


> I know no-one knows where I live but I'm hyper paranoid now. Not unlike some people on this forum!! I recently moved house, partly because I couldnt get over the break in, and moved my animals in to the new house in the dead of night so none of the neighbours could see what I had.


 
Why not grab a piece of paper.. Write RFUK 21/09/09 on it, place it infront of your tort, and post a picture of it on here within the next 10 minutes then. You may have a little more credability if you do...

Go..........


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## BexyBabes

Meko said:


> Actually i must apologise for thinking that you may have something to do with it, i was clearly wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because you're obviously only 7 years old.





Meko said:


> ah come on.. who over the age of 7 says duuuurrrr


 

u do make me laugh so much!!!!:lol2:


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## Meko

slidersiren said:


> I know no-one knows where I live but I'm hyper paranoid now. Not unlike some people on this forum!! I recently moved house, partly because I couldnt get over the break in, and moved my animals in to the new house in the dead of night so none of the neighbours could see what I had.


i'm constantly paranoid about it, when i go to work i leave the back door open for the dogs as i'm out 12 hours a day and it isn't fair to keep them in all that time. Although if anybody did steal them they'd probably return them within an hour apologising and leave me a bottle of whisky as they'd think i need it putting up with these two arseholes day in day out..


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## Danbellini

MJ75 said:


> Why not grab a piece of paper.. Write RFUK 21/09/09 on it, place it infront of your tort, and post a picture of it on here within the next 10 minutes then. You may have a little more credability if you do...
> 
> Go..........


haha yer i concur, lets see this tortoise of yours....


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## wohic

i know emotions are high but PLEASE keep it civil guys


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## Danbellini

Yer, civil war ;P


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## White_raven666

I was in Coldblooded in Rainham last Saturday and My friend was talking to a couple. Turns out the couple were ERAC show organizers and said the show has been cancelled because a mother of one of the students at the high school is an animal rights activist and complained to the school; thus ending the show single handedly.

As far as I heard the organizers are trying to find another venue now.


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## slidersiren

I'm getting a bit hacked off with this now... on this issue I've chosen my side and I will fight to protect my animals and my hobby at all costs.

Theres no way that I'm posting pics of my animals. Sorry guys. Out of the question. It doesn't make a lot of sense I know but when you have had the heartbreak of having animals stolen you might understand. 

I used to be a big supporter of IAR and there bear campaign and now don't want anything else to do with them. Now it seems that you lot are turning on me aswell!! If I get more crap I'll just stay off the forum, ok?


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## puyopop

okay.


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## truncheon1973

*def cancelled*

i just called the school and it is def cancelled coz of some kids mum being against it!!


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## Alex M

slidersiren said:


> Theres no way that I'm posting pics of my animals. Sorry guys. Out of the question. It doesn't make a lot of sense I know but when you have had the heartbreak of having animals stolen you might understand.


I'm not buying that. You only need said photo, who's asked you to write your address on it?.


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## wohic

truncheon1973 said:


> i just called the school and it is def cancelled coz of some kids mum being against it!!


that just tells me the venue is canceled, lets wait for the organizers who I am sure are working very hard to find an alternative venue


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## truncheon1973

*dunno#*

i just called someone from erac and she said they will be posting tonight to let everyone no whats happening


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## MJ75

slidersiren said:


> I'm getting a bit hacked off with this now... on this issue I've chosen my side and I will fight to protect my animals and my hobby at all costs.
> 
> Theres no way that I'm posting pics of my animals. Sorry guys. Out of the question. It doesn't make a lot of sense I know but when you have had the heartbreak of having animals stolen you might understand.
> 
> I used to be a big supporter of IAR and there bear campaign and now don't want anything else to do with them. Now it seems that you lot are turning on me aswell!! If I get more crap I'll just stay off the forum, ok?


Hey, I'm not having a dig. I'm making it very easy for you to prove your credability and prove you're genuine. If you'd have dome it, you'd have given your doubters a 2 fingered salute. Now, you don't look credible at all. Thats not a dig, just an observation.

All the best
MJ


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## Danbellini

MJ75 said:


> Hey, I'm not having a dig. I'm making it very easy for you to prove your credability and prove you're genuine. If you'd have dome it, you'd have given your doubters a 2 fingered salute. Now, you don't look credible at all. Thats not a dig, just an observation.
> 
> All the best
> MJ


Very acute observation indeed. I concur again.


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## slidersiren

You can concur all you like! You've just lost yourselves a good ally. WEll done! When I have anymore useful info i'll just keep it to myself shall I?

I've come to the conclusion that our hobby is doomed.....


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## Meko

i hope the 'hobby' is doomed. There's nothing worse than seeing pets called a hobby. Snowboarding is one of my hobbies and my pets are part of the family.


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## truncheon1973

*wrong*

well all i can say to that is ive had reps stolen from me and yes it was horrible to lose them but i would still take pics of any of my reps if people doubted me

maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself next time??????


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## White_raven666

> i hope the 'hobby' is doomed. There's nothing worse than seeing pets called a hobby. Snowboarding is one of my hobbies and my pets are part of the family.


I agree reptiles are seen as business tools and breeding machines and not pets like they should be.


AND OMG you do snowboarding. I went on a dry ski slope!!!at brentwood and completed a beggineers course. Great fun but lots of ouchies!!!


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## Danbellini

Meh, its all good, i can imagine they'll find another venue in the end
All's well that ends well hopefully


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## NBLADE

White_raven666 said:


> I was in Coldblooded in Rainham last Saturday and My friend was talking to a couple. Turns out the couple were ERAC show organizers and said the show has been cancelled because a mother of one of the students at the high school is an animal rights activist and complained to the school; thus ending the show single handedly.
> 
> As far as I heard the organizers are trying to find another venue now.


 

yep, i was in there when they came in, the school has pulled the plug, however as it stands the show is NOT cancelled but is deferred at the moment. The council dont have a problem with the show going ahead, just a member of staff at the school did, so now a new venue is being looked into, but details will be provided closer to it i'd imagine to stop the antis getting a chance to try and ruin it again. I'm sure one of the organisers will be along soon to clear it up further.


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## Caz

Council can't cancel a breeders meeting because they no longer need to be licenced by the council.

However..venues may be under pressure from Elaine (great to have you back! How much are you paying yourself this time love in the name of Animal Rights? Still a six figure sum I bet.) and her band of merry men.

Sounds like (?) the 'council run' school has pulled out. What we all really need are some nice big private venues...



I wonder where old 'Dr' clifford is hiding these days. :lol2:


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## Issa

OP: I can sorta see where you are coming from, if my home had been violated and my animals stolen I may be a little hesitant to post pictures of my current collection, especially if it contained something of value 

but..........

As you may or may not know, being a relative newcomer to this forum (I don't know if your active elsewhere) there have been instances of AR activists joining forums to: Gather information, conduct the groups propaganda nonsense, and generally disrupt things. Unfortunately given your posting history, you've called into question your motives for actually being here. The bulk of your posts (27 out of 30 when I looked) consist of show cancelled related things with almost nothing about your actual animals themselves. 
All your being asked to do is prove that you are a geniune keeper and not an AR nut in disguise.........


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## Lisasgeckonursery

wow, no wonder newbies get scared away:whistling2:


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## MJ75

about_a_girluk said:


> wow, no wonder newbies get scared away:whistling2:


That was one of my first thoughts. Hence giving the poster a chance to prove themselves. It's hardly surprising that some people have suspicions if you look at the big picture.


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## Meko

White_raven666 said:


> I agree reptiles are seen as business tools and breeding machines and not pets like they should be.
> 
> 
> AND OMG you do snowboarding. I went on a dry ski slope!!!at brentwood and completed a beggineers course. Great fun but lots of ouchies!!!


i've just sold all my stuff as i haven't been for ages.. not that i went that often but it is good fun... Only had a few opportunities to go on proper snow, Scotland and Spain.


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## Natrix

PLEASE EVERYONE STAY CALM AND DON'T START RINGING THE SCHOOL, FBH, ERAC ETC.

Our bunny hugging friends are up to mischief and trying to cause problems. The situation is being worked on by ERAC and the FBH and a statement will be released when everything is sorted.

Gordon Glasson
FBH Vice chairman (trying to be retired:devil


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## Lisasgeckonursery

Definately had suspicions myself, its just the way these things descend into arguing before we know if she's real or not. Glad to hear its being worked on, theres hope yet then.


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## Meko

Natrix said:


> PLEASE EVERYONE STAY CALM AND DON'T START RINGING THE SCHOOL, FBH, ERAC ETC.
> 
> Our bunny hugging friends are up to mischief and trying to cause problems. The situation is being worked on by ERAC and the FBH and a statement will be released when everything is sorted.
> 
> Gordon Glasson
> FBH Vice chairman (trying to be retired:devil


 
and the school have probably got better things to do than keep answering the phone about something that's happening out of school hours and isn't school related.


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## Natrix

Meko said:


> and the school have probably got better things to do than keep answering the phone about something that's happening out of school hours and isn't school related.


YEP:2thumb: and will get fed up with their switch board being overloaded with calls and their time being wasted. 
Please all be patient and wait. As soon as everything is sorted ERAC will give an official press release.

Gordon


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## Ian.g

Natrix said:


> YEP:2thumb: and will get fed up with their switch board being overloaded with calls and their time being wasted.
> Please all be patient and wait. As soon as everything is sorted ERAC will give an official press release.
> 
> Gordon


lets hope another venue can be be found, i enjoy the shows for meeting up with likeminded friends as much as looking at and buying reptiles...i am with Julia on this one!...if the show cant be re located then i am up for a meet up and catching up with friends etc....it really is such a shame though, that one ignorant view can ruin something for hundreds of others!


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## Natrix

Just a thought but if anyone wants to make phone calls, why not ring the lovely Elain Toland and ask her why she thinks a perfectly legal pet show is illegal. I sure she would love to hear from lots of you.

Gordon
:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:

For more background information or for photographs, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 / 07986 535024.


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## Natrix

Ian.g said:


> lets hope another venue can be be found, i enjoy the shows for meeting up with likeminded friends as much as looking at and buying reptiles...i am with Julia on this one!...if the show cant be re located then i am up for a meet up and catching up with friends etc....it really is such a shame though, that one ignorant view can ruin something for hundreds of others!


The show is legal and will happen. It just might be a new venue or a week or two later, but it isn't cancelled.

Gordon


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## Meko

Natrix said:


> Just a thought but if anyone wants to make phone calls, why not ring the lovely Elain Toland and ask her why she thinks a perfectly legal pet show is illegal. I sure she would love to hear from lots of you.
> 
> Gordon
> :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:
> 
> For more background information or for photographs, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 / 07986 535024.


can i phone her and ask her what she's wearing?

and ask for photos of her wearing it?


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## Lisasgeckonursery

Glad to hear its going ahead, i may phone her for a chat:whistling2:


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## Ian.g

Natrix said:


> The show is legal and will happen. It just might be a new venue or a week or two later, but it isn't cancelled.
> 
> Gordon


this is great news! :no1:....i know there legal...and YOU know they are legal! shame a certain Mrs Toland doesn`t know it!!!...:devil:


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## abandonallhope

I have just phoned the lovely Elaine and she is refusing to answer questions, suprise suprise.

I do however have an e-mail address so shall we send her an e-mail with some questions?

I have to say the one I'm keen to have answered is what exactly is your experience with reptiles and what is your evidence to back up your claims?


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## corpselight

sounds good to me, what an utter cow!

OP: thanks for posting this, don't think you sound ingenuine, personally. you may need to keep in mind what was said about trolls coming in though, from the so-called animal welfare groups. that is the reason people are suspicious, which also makes sense to me, similar to how you are suspicious of posting pics after having your pets stolen.

i consider myself a conservationist and someone who loves and cares about animals...but i won't have anything to do with these ridiculous associations that anthropomorphise (yay! a chance to use my favourite word today!) animals, thinking (using that word is a stretch here, i know) that animals require the same conditions as humans or puppies to be happy...
a bit of research would show them as wrong, but they don't want to learn, they just want to cause trouble.
kinda like the BNP...
this Elaine person sounds like she is just begging to be signed up to loads of spam!

and who cares if the keeping of pets is called a hobby? it's a word! there are enough things to worry about without arguing about pointless semantics, too...


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## abandonallhope

corpselight said:


> this Elaine person sounds like she is just begging to be signed up to loads of spam!


Ooo, what a good idea.

Lets send a decent e-mail first, and if she dosn't reply I'll sign her up for a load of dodgy german porn newsletters. :lol2:


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## MJ75

abandonallhope said:


> I have just phoned the lovely Elaine and she is refusing to answer questions, suprise suprise.
> 
> I do however have an e-mail address so shall we send her an e-mail with some questions?
> 
> I have to say the one I'm keen to have answered is what exactly is your experience with reptiles and what is your evidence to back up your claims?


Why not post her contact details. I'm sure she'll be happy to hear from us. Just make sure it's her work number and email, not personal details etc....


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## corpselight

abandonallhope said:


> Ooo, what a good idea.
> 
> Lets send a decent e-mail first, and if she dosn't reply I'll sign her up for a load of dodgy german porn newsletters. :lol2:


i could be really nasty and suggest the kind she could get in trouble for...but i won't! cause that'd be wrong!


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## abandonallhope

MJ75 said:


> Why not post her contact details. I'm sure she'll be happy to hear from us. Just make sure it's her work number and email, not personal details etc....


Phone numbers are already up, it's probably best if only one e-mail is sent from all of us. That MAY get answered, if we send twenty million, odds are good they will be ignored. Same as the wilbur thing, some people posted crap and insults instead of intelligent, well thought out posts and made the situation worse.


----------



## abandonallhope

corpselight said:


> i could be really nasty and suggest the kind she could get in trouble for...but i won't! cause that'd be wrong!


Nooo, I know the perfect kind!!! Furry porn or beastiality. 

She is a fluffy lover after all.


----------



## corpselight

MJ75 said:


> Why not post her contact details. I'm sure she'll be happy to hear from us. Just make sure it's her work number and email, not personal details etc....


yeah in all honesty, would be best NOT to stoop to the sorts of things extremists like her do...
keep it professional ish and civil...the law IS on our side, and she has dragged her association into disrepute through her dodgy "reporting"


----------



## Issa

corpselight said:


> sounds good to me, what an utter cow!
> 
> OP: thanks for posting this, don't think you sound ingenuine, personally. you may need to keep in mind what was said about trolls coming in though, from the so-called animal welfare groups. that is the reason people are suspicious, which also makes sense to me, similar to how you are suspicious of posting pics after having your pets stolen.
> 
> i consider myself a conservationist and someone who loves and cares about animals...but i won't have anything to do with these ridiculous associations that anthropomorphise (yay! a chance to use my favourite word today!) animals, thinking (using that word is a stretch here, i know) that animals require the same conditions as humans or puppies to be happy...
> a bit of research would show them as wrong, but they don't want to learn, they just want to cause trouble.
> kinda like the BNP...
> *this Elaine person sounds like she is just begging to be signed up to loads of spam!*
> 
> and who cares if the keeping of pets is called a hobby? it's a word! there are enough things to worry about without arguing about pointless semantics, too...


Just what I was thinking, its amazing some of the sites you can sign up to these days with just a name and valid mobile number..........:whistling2:


----------



## corpselight

abandonallhope said:


> Nooo, I know the perfect kind!!! Furry porn or beastiality.
> 
> She is a fluffy lover after all.


LOL, that could work...:whip:


----------



## abandonallhope

corpselight said:


> LOL, that could work...:whip:


Stop giving me ideas!

Sensible e-mail first, see what she has to say to direct questions from the reptile community - then furry porn.:lol2:


----------



## corpselight

sounds fair enough:Na_Na_Na_Na:
no more dodgy than what she is doing, posting lies online as if fact!

on the lighter side, anyone hear about this "sea kitten" thing PETA started?
http://www.peta.org/sea_kittens/
:lol2::lol2::lol2:


----------



## Lisasgeckonursery

yum sea kitten and chips :mf_dribble:


----------



## corpselight

haha, if anything that'd be better, the bones would be easier to avoid...the only problem would be the fur.

:lol2:


----------



## MJ75

Does anyone who has concerns about the ignorance of APA bank with RBS by any chance?


----------



## Morgan Freeman

How can a few parents stop an entire reptile show?


----------



## MJ75

Morgan Freeman said:


> How can a few parents stop an entire reptile show?


Maybe it's not a few people, but one weak minded, uneducated headmaster?


----------



## MissCat

Sorry to sound a bit dim, but who is Elaine Toland?


----------



## Meko

corpselight said:


> and who cares if the keeping of pets is called a hobby? it's a word! there are enough things to worry about without arguing about pointless semantics, too...


well me obviously, it's no wonder people are so against it when people refer to it as a hobby, like collecting stamps or knitting jumpers.


----------



## corpselight

i dunno, i still don't think that's a problem anymore than fish being called fish rather than sea kittens is a problem for fish PR. loads of people love fish as they are, and loads of "hobbyists" love their pets...
i agree there's a distinction between different kinds of hobbies, but as a hobby is something you do in your spare time, i think tending to animals and breeding them etc could qualify...in fact one could argue that a hobby is more important than a job, as a job usually just funds the hobby which is the real passion of the person who has it.
but yes, i think i do see your point, and can appreciate where you're coming from to a degree.


----------



## rickm1968

i hope its not cancelled, am really looking forward to it


----------



## Ssthisto

abandonallhope said:


> Nooo, I know the perfect kind!!! Furry porn


Hey, don't get her started on how cruel furries are or something... I don't need her knocking on my door for THAT too.

I hope that a new venue is arranged quickly for the Brentwood show.


----------



## Captainmatt29

MissCat said:


> Sorry to sound a bit dim, but who is Elaine Toland?


the incompetent excuse for an IAR leader who needs to be stopped immediately !


----------



## abandonallhope

So come on people I'm serious about putting an e-mail to them from RFUK about our concerns in regards to her comments.

I need input.


----------



## Caz

MissCat said:


> Sorry to sound a bit dim, but who is Elaine Toland?


A woman who takes a large wage in the name of animal protection..


----------



## Captainmatt29

how about ripping her a new bum hole ?


----------



## purpleskyes

abandonallhope said:


> So come on people I'm serious about putting an e-mail to them from RFUK about our concerns in regards to her comments.
> 
> I need input.


Whats the point the woman isnt interested she just hangs up the phone on people. She is right we are wrong thats the end of it in her mind there is no having a rational conversation with this woman. She probably wont even read the email.:whip:


----------



## Moosmoo

purpleskyes said:


> Whats the point the woman isnt interested she just hangs up the phone on people. She is right we are wrong thats the end of it in her mind she probably wont even read the email.:whip:


 
throwing biscuits in her general direction is obviously the way forward.


----------



## abandonallhope

purpleskyes said:


> Whats the point the woman isnt interested she just hangs up the phone on people. She is right we are wrong thats the end of it in her mind she probably wont even read the email.:whip:


Then she gets spammed with German porn. :lol2:


----------



## Captainmatt29

I think we need to confront her personally


----------



## kirstyink

if you buy a fish from a pet shop you take it home in a tiny plastic bag, if you buy a hamster you take it home in a carboard box, if you buy a rep you take it in a small tub like a cricket tub.

why is it any different at a rep show?
there are actual pet stores which treat animals in digusting manners and have them in the wrong housing for months maybe years at a time.

its f****ing pathetic


----------



## abandonallhope

messengermatt said:


> I think we need to confront her personally


Realistically thats not going to happen though.

If we act sensibly (jokes about porn aside) and she continues to refuse comment she wil end up loosing credability.

What we don't need here is people taking things out of hand, not saying anyone will but it has happened in the past.

If anyone wants to help me put an e-mail together pm me as I really want some other input not just my own.


----------



## bizz

awww no i was really looking forward to this show.
So because of one woman who cant seem to grasp what captive bred means, the venue is cancelled.I really hope it still goes ahead somewhere else.


----------



## Meko

messengermatt said:


> I think we need to confront her personally


protest outside dressed as lizards and snakes holding signs and banners that say *reptile keepers have rights too*


----------



## MJ75

The APA is both a registered charity and a limited comapny. Like many charities these days, they appear to make money. Their accounts are a public document available for the public to obtain via companies house etc.

If you want to do anything to really hit back at them, find out how they are financed. Check out who their sponsors are etc. The Royal Bank of Scotland takes donations on their web site etc.

If you have an account with them, write them a letter explaining your thoughts and opinions about the APA and close your account in protest of the RBS support for the charity.

Find out who's giving them their money, contact them and advise how naive they are about animal welfare and provide details of an alternative charity who they could donate their hard earned cash to.

Sending a few spamming mails won't achieve anything.


----------



## DazedLewis

This person is BLATENTLY animal rights nutjob undercover, and they should be booted from the forums...

Of course theres the fact that 3 ot of 4 of her threads are about cancelled shows.

But also on their second thread (after the 'I might get a corn' one in which she did not even reply to anyone), they made this comment: 
"Would it be possible to list breeders who were there last year? My twin boys are nine in September and want to pick their birthday lists (they're driving me crazy!!!!). If I know which breeders were there we can have an evening picking out what to buy."

Hmm, a list of breeders ayy? That might come in useful... interesting how all those breeders got emailed before...:whistling2:

This person is not willing to validate herself and everything they say sounds completely dodgey to me... reams and reams of excuses and stories...


----------



## philbaines

i still think we kidnap her and put her in a tiny cage then poke her with a big stick till she says sorry


----------



## DazedLewis

urgh I was really looking forward to this show as well after missing the summer maidstone show :/


----------



## kirstyink

DazedLewis said:


> This person is BLATENTLY animal rights nutjob undercover, and they should be booted from the forums...
> 
> Of course theres the fact that 3 ot of 4 of her threads are about cancelled shows.
> 
> But also on their second thread (after the 'I might get a corn' one in which she did not even reply to anyone), they made this comment:
> "Would it be possible to list breeders who were there last year? My twin boys are nine in September and want to pick their birthday lists (they're driving me crazy!!!!). If I know which breeders were there we can have an evening picking out what to buy."
> 
> Hmm, a list of breeders ayy? That might come in useful... interesting how all those breeders got emailed before...:whistling2:
> 
> This person is not willing to validate herself and everything they say sounds completely dodgey to me... reams and reams of excuses and stories...


if you look at her other threads/posts she says she works for the iar


----------



## snake rescuer

is it 100% NOT on then guys?????


----------



## abandonallhope

*Contacting APA*

Animal Protection Agency
Brighton Media Centre
68 Middle Street
Brighton
BN1 1AL 
Phone: +44 (0)1273 674253
Fax: +44 (0)1273 674927
Email: [email protected]
Web: http://apa.org.uk/


----------



## marcgroovyge

slidersiren said:


> *please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253 / 07986 535024.*


 
This would be too easy to do :devil:


----------



## Mr Man

just seen this on their site, posted in the snake section aswell. they are so full of sh!t :devil:

Animal Protection Agency


----------



## philbaines

i have...shes a tit


----------



## marcgroovyge

i found this on the APA site


*Stop Pet Markets*

*HELP US TO DEAL WITH THE DEALERS!
- and finally secure a ban on pet markets that will be properly enforced*

With the help of our supporters, APA spearheaded a campaign to persuade the Government to propose a ban on the commercial selling of pets at fairs and markets. We now need to ensure that the ban is enacted and properly enforced. By supporting APA, you can help to ensure that pet animals are not subjected to appalling treatment at markets.
Our new leaflet draws a clear distinction between events that involve the private, non-commercial sales of pets, which are legal, and the law- breaking that takes place at pet markets. We believe that the only way for local Councils to monitor these activities and enforce the ban on commercial pet sales is via a system of licensing.
A licensing system would mean that prospective organisers would be required to apply for a licence from their local Council in advance of an event. In the licence application, full details of anyone planning to sell animals would have to be given, along with the numbers and types of animals they plan to sell, and the price the animals would be sold at. Council officers would then be in a position to decide whether or not to issue a licence - if they deemed the activity to be commercial then no licence would be given and the event would be disallowed.
If, on the other hand, the event was deemed to be non-commercial then the Council could licence and inspect the event to ensure that high welfare standards were being maintained.
We believe that a licensing system would be a workable solution to the current enforcement problems faced by local Councils and would end the trade in stressed, sick and suffering pet animals at markets.


----------



## marcgroovyge

AND



*Hands Off Exotics*

Exotic animals do not make good pets and are not suited to life in captivity. Purchasing an exotic animal also means supporting a trade that involves a high level of cruelty and environmental destruction - as many animals in the trade are captured from the wild. There is no easy way of telling whether exotic animals have been bred in captivity or are wild-caught. As well as this, exotic pets can also spread diseases to people.
Exotic pet keeping is a 'hobby' of ignorance, where animal keepers know little about the biological needs of their captives and where sellers rely on this uninformed market. APA's educational campaign will provide insights into the misinformation that surrounds animal keeping and hopefully persuade people to steer clear of exotic pets. There may always be unscrupulous people willing to trade in wild animals for short-term profit. Without consumer demand the trade will collapse.
Heightened awareness leading to a change in public attitudes will have profound impact on the trade. The exotic pet industry creates a false demand for exotic animals by marketing them as 'low maintenance' and 'easy to keep'. This deceptive and damaging message however is countered more and more in informed circles, such as the veterinary and biological professions. Local and national media increasingly present stories of animals who have suffered cruelty and neglect at the hands of owners who could no longer manage them or afford expensive veterinary bills. Despite this, the trade is booming with an ever-increasing diversity of species available to consumers.
Animal traders and pet shop staff commonly lie about the origins of their animals and lead customers to believe, for example, that they are captive-bred when in fact they have been snatched from the wild. The capture and transportation process is so brutal that the majority of animals die before they reach the pet shop. The trade in wild animals for pets is driving many species towards extinction.
People who buy exotic pets are often not aware of the significant disease risk that they invite into their homes. Vulnerable groups such as children under five, the elderly, pregnant woman or people with compromised immune systems are more susceptible to contracting one of the many diseases carried by exotic animals.
The simplest answer therefore is not to buy exotic pets and also to educate others against exotic animal keeping.


----------



## DazedLewis

"Most reptiles die within one year in captivity. In fact, the reptile industry has been compared to the 'cut flower' trade, as both industries are based on perishable commodities that are expected to die soon after purchase."

How do they come up with this sh*t?


----------



## Caz

Lots of it came from 'Dr' Clifford Warwick, a failed reptile importer and dealer (don't even get started on breeding lol..) turned 'expert' to Animal aid type charities. For a nice wage ofcourse.

The best way would be to discredit the APA with the Authorities and the General Public. I would say the best place to start would be widely publishing the income of the chief exec/directors.. Remeber it all comes from donations supposedly to help animals.

Call me a cynic but it seems all about the money for those at the top..


----------



## DazedLewis

urgh it makes me ill thinking about how stupidly corrupt these people are... anything for a bit of cash :/


----------



## wohic

ha


marcgroovyge said:


> i found this on the APA site
> 
> 
> *Stop Pet Markets*
> 
> *HELP US TO DEAL WITH THE DEALERS!
> - and finally secure a ban on pet markets that will be properly enforced*
> 
> With the help of our supporters, APA spearheaded a campaign to persuade the Government to propose a ban on the commercial selling of pets at fairs and markets. We now need to ensure that the ban is enacted and properly enforced. By supporting APA, you can help to ensure that pet animals are not subjected to appalling treatment at markets.
> Our new leaflet draws a clear distinction between events that involve the private, non-commercial sales of pets, which are legal, and the law- breaking that takes place at pet markets. We believe that the only way for local Councils to monitor these activities and enforce the ban on commercial pet sales is via a system of licensing.
> A licensing system would mean that prospective organisers would be required to apply for a licence from their local Council in advance of an event. In the licence application, full details of anyone planning to sell animals would have to be given, along with the numbers and types of animals they plan to sell, and the price the animals would be sold at. Council officers would then be in a position to decide whether or not to issue a licence - if they deemed the activity to be commercial then no licence would be given and the event would be disallowed.
> If, on the other hand, the event was deemed to be non-commercial then the Council could licence and inspect the event to ensure that high welfare standards were being maintained.
> We believe that a licensing system would be a workable solution to the current enforcement problems faced by local Councils and would end the trade in stressed, sick and suffering pet animals at markets.



I actually dont see that anyone would have a problem with that proposal........ it actually makes a lot of sence, what the AR dont seem to realize is this is how the shows are pretty much run already


----------



## Connie_F

All, please see

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/reptile-shows-breeder-meetings/382111-new-threat.html#post4757505

Thanks
Connie
Secretary
Essex Reptiles & Amphibians Club


----------



## platypus

*Are the vets wrong ?*



wohic said:


> ha
> 
> 
> I actually dont see that anyone would have a problem with that proposal........ it actually makes a lot of sence, what the AR dont seem to realize is this is how the shows are pretty much run already


Every show i have been to has been checked by vet/vets and they have asked lots of questions etc . These animal professionals are more than happy with the quality and the housing etc of all livestock displayed . That alone should be enough for any local school over the word of someones mum .
My Mum thinks i am loverly so it must be true :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## Natrix

For those that were not around pre the Animal Welfare Bill this is basically a return to the good old bad old days.
Before the AWB we lost around twenty shows over a three year period, all attacked by several animal rights groups who came to be known as the Antis. We also lost several clubs that folded due to lost revenue from the shows.
The attacks slowed up and stopped when DEFRA began discussing what new regulations should be included in the AWB. The antis made all sorts of claims and we disproved them and everyone was kept busy.
The AWB has now reached its final stages and it has become clear that the antis have not got what they wanted eg we are still here and shows are still legal. The result of this is what we are now seeing. Every show this year has been attacked. By this new anti campaign. Local councils, residents, media and venues are being swamped with anti reptile propaganda (lies) and councils and venue owners are beginning to panic and try and council up coming shows.
Going on past history this situation will become worse and more shows will run into problems. We will see more and more propaganda and bull from these people and we will lose more shows and clubs.
It is early days and I’m not sure what course this will all take but over the next few months, I suspect that this situation is going to become a major issue for all of us. The main thing is that we all understand that when these things happen it is not the fault of the show organisers and that they, the FBH and Chris Newman will be working madly in the back ground trying to solve the problems that have arisen. This may mean that they are too busy to get the information out to everyone as quick as we would like but I can assure you that they will be trying their best for all of us.
If any one is wanting to get angry about the situation, remember to get angry with the antis not the guys that are in the front line and taking all the flak on your behalf. 

Gordon


----------



## DazedLewis

Natrix said:


> For those that were not around pre the Animal Welfare Bill this is basically a return to the good old bad old days.
> Before the AWB we lost around twenty shows over a three year period, all attacked by several animal rights groups who came to be known as the Antis. We also lost several clubs that folded due to lost revenue from the shows.
> The attacks slowed up and stopped when DEFRA began discussing what new regulations should be included in the AWB. The antis made all sorts of claims and we disproved them and everyone was kept busy.
> The AWB has now reached its final stages and it has become clear that the antis have not got what they wanted eg we are still here and shows are still legal. The result of this is what we are now seeing. Every show this year has been attacked. By this new anti campaign. Local councils, residents, media and venues are being swamped with anti reptile propaganda (lies) and councils and venue owners are beginning to panic and try and council up coming shows.
> Going on past history this situation will become worse and more shows will run into problems. We will see more and more propaganda and bull from these people and we will lose more shows and clubs.
> It is early days and I’m not sure what course this will all take but over the next few months, I suspect that this situation is going to become a major issue for all of us. The main thing is that we all understand that when these things happen it is not the fault of the show organisers and that they, the FBH and Chris Newman will be working madly in the back ground trying to solve the problems that have arisen. This may mean that they are too busy to get the information out to everyone as quick as we would like but I can assure you that they will be trying their best for all of us.
> If any one is wanting to get angry about the situation, remember to get angry with the antis not the guys that are in the front line and taking all the flak on your behalf.
> 
> Gordon


Looks like its going to be a confusing next few years... :devil:


----------



## LFBP-NEIL

Somebody might want to post some sensible comments on the following website to the following news item....


Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School


----------



## Crownan

pink said:


> Somebody might want to post some sensible comments on the following website to the following news item....
> 
> 
> Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School



I tried to comment but it kept telling me the comment was too long, and it was only a few lines. I couldnt cut it down to anything worth typing so I gave up 

Such misinformed idiots are ruining it for the masses. :censor:


----------



## Herpmad V2.0

Natrix said:


> For those that were not around pre the Animal Welfare Bill this is basically a return to the good old bad old days.
> Before the AWB we lost around twenty shows over a three year period, all attacked by several animal rights groups who came to be known as the Antis. We also lost several clubs that folded due to lost revenue from the shows.
> The attacks slowed up and stopped when DEFRA began discussing what new regulations should be included in the AWB. The antis made all sorts of claims and we disproved them and everyone was kept busy.
> The AWB has now reached its final stages and it has become clear that the antis have not got what they wanted eg we are still here and shows are still legal. The result of this is what we are now seeing. Every show this year has been attacked. By this new anti campaign. Local councils, residents, media and venues are being swamped with anti reptile propaganda (lies) and councils and venue owners are beginning to panic and try and council up coming shows.
> Going on past history this situation will become worse and more shows will run into problems. We will see more and more propaganda and bull from these people and we will lose more shows and clubs.
> It is early days and I’m not sure what course this will all take but over the next few months, I suspect that this situation is going to become a major issue for all of us. The main thing is that we all understand that when these things happen it is not the fault of the show organisers and that they, the FBH and Chris Newman will be working madly in the back ground trying to solve the problems that have arisen. This may mean that they are too busy to get the information out to everyone as quick as we would like but I can assure you that they will be trying their best for all of us.
> If any one is wanting to get angry about the situation, remember to get angry with the antis not the guys that are in the front line and taking all the flak on your behalf.
> 
> Gordon


i remember the gd old bad old days lol i still think we find one of there rally a boycott it in a big way make them feel the little ppl for a change it wasn't that long ago the only show in the area was the Norwich show which the date wasn't confirmed until a few dyas before then the ERAC had a bash same details and it worked then we got the shows to come back with miner problem now we have started to announce this show in advance it seem they are taking steps may be we should go bk to keeping it locked down until a few days before 

still if someone know when and where there next rally is ill go and confront them f$$$$$g jobs worth c££ts


----------



## eco_tonto

is euthanasia an option for these people? It looks like the best solution to our problem :2thumb:


----------



## karlos79

comment left, just asking how much she gets paid! lol


----------



## reptile_man_08

Subscribe
YouTube - UKReptileCommunity's Channel


----------



## carlo69

*hi*



Caz said:


> A woman who takes a large wage in the name of animal protection..


Yes and how much of that does she donate back to her noble cause ,BUGGER ALL i bet, she is ful of C**P!!!!! people like her are the ones that should be shut down ,she obviously is full of S**t .


----------



## dulwichgeckos

So do i drive 40miles? notsure if its on or not


----------



## madshawty

dulwichgeckos said:


> So do i drive 40miles? notsure if its on or not


I'd like to know if its def on or off aswell! We were coming from Maidstone, which is also about 40 miles! 
Hopefully it will become a bit more clear nearer to sunday!


----------



## Poxicator

I think you can safely say its off.
Connie and others have confirmed there's no show at Shenfield.
The liklihood of the show on the same day at such short notice is small. But, I'm sure ERAC is doing all it can to find an alternative venue and quite probably a postponed convenient date.

Brentwood council are notoriously problematic and I'd doubt, unless legal action is used (unlikely in such a short timeframe), they'd change their mind on the issue.

I'd also doubt that any lengthy legal contract was used which didn't include a clause of "unforeseen circumstances".

Such a shame that they haven't recognised this as a meeting of private breeders and not commercial retailers but it does at least highlight Animal Aid's ultimate agenda and possibly throw a bit more weight behind the issues faced by respectable breeders and the various societies they belong to.

I guess we'll have to find something better to do on the Sunday, like a trip to Tonbridge where Animal Aid are based.


----------



## Meko

pink said:


> Somebody might want to post some sensible comments on the following website to the following news item....
> 
> 
> Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School


they seem to like deleting anything they don't agree with


----------



## hogboy

Meko said:


> they seem to like deleting anything they don't agree with


Any comments are now getting :censor: by admin :bash:


----------



## reptile_man_08

Lol I tried to post a comment saying how they deleted the others only to find it had to be reviewed by the admin now.
Was going to print screen them deleting them as well..Would have been something to put on the channel, now that there's no show next weekend  Or so I think.


----------



## fishboy

hogboy said:


> Any comments are now getting :censor: by admin :bash:



I commented on how strange it was that all the comments in support of the shows organisers and are being deleted by admin. wonder if that one will be deleted.....:lol2:


----------



## MissCat

They deleted my comment too :/


----------



## AnimalCampaigns

AnimalCampaigns.com is an impartial online portal dedicated to animal welfare and conservation campaigns.

We are quite happy to publish comments and specifically encourage other points of view to specific stories, but won't publish 20 comments on one theme as it is unbalanced. 

We appreciate your points of view and would invite you and your group to put together a concise (polite as possible!) statement to get your point across in ONE go. 

We'd be happy to publish this as an additional 'Response' to the story so we have a balanced view.

Hope this helps...... The AnimalCampaigns Team!


----------



## wohic

AnimalCampaigns said:


> AnimalCampaigns.com is an impartial online portal dedicated to animal welfare and conservation campaigns.
> 
> We are quite happy to publish comments and specifically encourage other points of view to specific stories, but won't publish 20 comments on one theme as it is unbalanced.
> 
> We appreciate your points of view and would invite you and your group to put together a concise (polite as possible!) statement to get your point across in ONE go.
> 
> We'd be happy to publish this as an additional 'Response' to the story so we have a balanced view.
> 
> Hope this helps...... The AnimalCampaigns Team!


thank you 

I would like to say that the artical makes some very misleading and actually factually incorrect statements tink that these sould be sensibly and factually adressed, I tink perhaps a member like natrix for example would serve us well by putting a reply together, someone that is totally clear about the AWA and its updates.


----------



## blood and guts

AnimalCampaigns said:


> AnimalCampaigns.com is an impartial online portal dedicated to animal welfare and conservation campaigns.
> 
> We are quite happy to publish comments and specifically encourage other points of view to specific stories, but won't publish 20 comments on one theme as it is unbalanced.
> 
> We appreciate your points of view and would invite you and your group to put together a concise (polite as possible!) statement to get your point across in ONE go.
> 
> We'd be happy to publish this as an additional 'Response' to the story so we have a balanced view.
> 
> Hope this helps...... The AnimalCampaigns Team!


So will the antis only get the chance to make one group replie?
Are you saying there hasent been enough views on the anti side saying they maybe have no case?


----------



## Captainmatt29

AnimalCampaigns said:


> AnimalCampaigns.com is an impartial online portal dedicated to animal welfare and conservation campaigns.
> 
> We are quite happy to publish comments and specifically encourage other points of view to specific stories, but won't publish 20 comments on one theme as it is unbalanced.
> 
> We appreciate your points of view and would invite you and your group to put together a concise (polite as possible!) statement to get your point across in ONE go.
> 
> We'd be happy to publish this as an additional 'Response' to the story so we have a balanced view.
> 
> Hope this helps...... The AnimalCampaigns Team!



Right so its ok for all the activists etc to join RFUK and have their say and the mods/admins allow their posts etc,

Yet when we comment on a 3rd party site related to the issue they are removed or ignored ?


----------



## wohic

blood and guts said:


> So will the antis only get the chance to make one group replie?
> Are you saying there hasent been enough views on the anti side saying they maybe have no case?


#

i think what they are trying to put across that one well written statement is more likely to stand credence than 30 odd heated replys all pretty much saying the same thing

lets work with them, show them we are serious about animal welfare and conservation, we have the chance to change a few misconceptions please dont blow that, even if we can convince just one person to think for themselves and not make their mind up from misguided accusations, if just one person that reads that report and realizes from a well written reply that in places its actually close to liable and that it is way off the mark then we will have achieved something
last year we had a member on here that tried to work very hard to muster up a society to help with just these kinds of things, he warned us things could come to this yet many dismissed Rory as a dramatist............


----------



## Utter Nutter

pink said:


> Somebody might want to post some sensible comments on the following website to the following news item....
> 
> 
> Illegal reptile market disallowed by Brentwood Council and Shenfield High School


Have left 2 comments as they would accept more than 3 lines as it was too long! also had to abbreviate all my words to shorten it as well. Hope they accept my comments! 
Am so so angry. They are just ignorant and that is no excuse for what they are doing. If they don't know or understand why the hell don't they try to find out? That would be too easy for them though!!


----------



## wohic

messengermatt said:


> Right so its ok for all the activists etc to join RFUK and have their say and the mods/admins allow their posts etc,
> 
> Yet when we comment on a 3rd party site related to the issue they are removed or ignored ?



please step back, give them a chance, animal welfare is all our concern as is conservation of species, many of these people have hearts the size of houses and do so much good, they have a misconception due to extremist propaganda, they have strong spokesmen for their causes, we have chris newman he will work his socks off that i can promise you all but he is but one man, we all need to stay calm and be sensible and most of all stick together and be prepared to explain ourselves calmly


----------



## wohic

Utter Nutter said:


> Have left 2 comments as they would accept more than 3 lines as it was too long! also had to abbreviate all my words to shorten it as well. Hope they accept my comments!
> Am so so angry. They are just ignorant and that is no excuse for what they are doing. If they don't know or understand why the hell don't they try to find out? That would be too easy for them though!!


they think they know, they trust their sources.......... its very frustrating that we know our animals are captive bred, we watch them hatch, we know we have many animals living long and happy lives in our care, how ever just because someone is misguided it does not make them the enemy


----------



## Captainmatt29

wohic said:


> #
> 
> i think what they are trying to put across that one well written statement is more likely to stand credence than 30 odd heated replys all pretty much saying the same thing
> 
> lets work with them, show them we are serious about animal welfare and conservation, we have the chance to change a few misconceptions please dont blow that, even if we can convince just one person to think for themselves and not make their mind up from misguided accusations, if just one person that reads that report and realizes from a well written reply that in places its actually close to liable and that it is way off the mark then we will have achieved something
> last year we had a member on here that tried to work very hard to muster up a society to help with just these kinds of things, he warned us things could come to this yet many dismissed Rory as a dramatist............


Good point wohic, i think we need a spokes person who will comment appropriately and word in a way that can get the point across and help people to realise were not that nasty sort of people.

Maybe we can do a piece that can go global to various places to get the message across?


----------



## mikemike118

*immature of me but...*

im sorry to be abit immature, but im 17 and i must say that i think these totally pathetic animal people are HIPPYS (sorry for hippys that are not animal rights type of people)...The reason i think this iz because they have long hair, live in the woods and are vegetarians...the fact is that however much you care and follow animal rights, there is always something to do with animals as far as im concerned down the line somewhere! like even if you are vegetarian, you may eat spuds from the ground that have been manured but cow poo!

even glue has horse bone and fish bone init! so why do they harm people like us that have interests in animals and aren't making a torture seen!....i find it pathetic how hypocritical people can be!


sorry if this sounds stupid, i must admit that it does, but its what i think, and whats so wrong with that?:blush:

mike...


----------



## wohic

mikemike118 said:


> im sorry to be abit immature, but im 17 and i must say that i think these totally pathetic animal people are HIPPYS (sorry for hippys that are not animal rights type of people)...The reason i think this iz because they have long hair, live in the woods and are vegetarians...the fact is that however much you care and follow animal rights, there is always something to do with animals as far as im concerned down the line somewhere! like even if you are vegetarian, you may eat spuds from the ground that have been manured but cow poo!
> 
> even glue has horse bone and fish bone init! so why do they harm people like us that have interests in animals and aren't making a torture seen!....i find it pathetic how hypocritical people can be!
> 
> 
> sorry if this sounds stupid, i must admit that it does, but its what i think, and whats so wrong with that?:blush:
> 
> mike...


nothing at all, you have passion and a fire in your belly which hopefully means you will want to help us show these people the good that we all do, they need our help, lets face it they all care deeply for animals , we care deeply, surely we should actually be on the same side trying to stop the smugglers, the dealers in poorly low end wild caught pet shop stock, the unnecessary whole sale slaughter of rattle snakes in the yearly round ups, thats all fights worth fighting and if we as two community's pulled together so much more could be achieved.


----------



## Meko

wohic said:


> we all need to stay calm and be sensible and most of all stick together and be prepared to explain ourselves calmly


 
can't we throw chairs and set fire to things?


----------



## wohic

Meko said:


> can't we throw chairs and set fire to things?




as long as its only mentally then go for your life meko :lol2:


I may actually join you


----------



## blood and guts

wohic said:


> #
> 
> i think what they are trying to put across that one well written statement is more likely to stand credence than 30 odd heated replys all pretty much saying the same thing
> 
> lets work with them, show them we are serious about animal welfare and conservation, we have the chance to change a few misconceptions please dont blow that, even if we can convince just one person to think for themselves and not make their mind up from misguided accusations, if just one person that reads that report and realizes from a well written reply that in places its actually close to liable and that it is way off the mark then we will have achieved something
> last year we had a member on here that tried to work very hard to muster up a society to help with just these kinds of things, he warned us things could come to this yet many dismissed Rory as a dramatist............


You cant work with the antis, remember what happened when the fbh tryed working with the rspca?
We need to be working with the councils and goverment depts that affect us and putting foward clear fact and proof.
I know rory and what he was saying on here, sadly to many people on this forum simply out for them selves or seducded by being the next big name/breeder and making money from it.


----------



## Utter Nutter

Since the other show earlier in the year was held at the Brentwood Schools Sports Centre would this not be a viable option for relocating this one? If it was ok to hold it there a couple of months ago then surely if it is available then it may be an option?


----------



## blood and guts

The adds by google bit above, anyone seen what its advertised on this thread?

*Animals Have Rights Too* 
Show Your Love For Animals & Join The Fight Today. Learn More Here! 

A bloody peta link:censor::censor::censor:


----------



## Poxicator

Surely the best, most appropriate and most accurate reply should be left to ERAC themselves.
Hopefully they can get across the valid points but unfortunately I think its a lost cause when the objective of the anti's is to remove all pets from households.


----------



## leopardgeckomad

to be honest i think this is perfetic, i think that people who think us herpers are cruel should actually com to one of our shows and take a look for themsleves, i am really angry that its be closed because im suppose to be picking up a super snow male which i have been waiting for for ages.

anyway hopefully ERAC can organise it somewhere else.


----------



## Caz

wohic said:


> #
> 
> i think what they are trying to put across that one well written statement is more likely to stand credence than 30 odd heated replys all pretty much saying the same thing
> 
> lets work with them, show them we are serious about animal welfare and conservation, we have the chance to change a few misconceptions please dont blow that, even if we can convince just one person to think for themselves and not make their mind up from misguided accusations, if just one person that reads that report and realizes from a well written reply that in places its actually close to liable and that it is way off the mark then we will have achieved something
> last year we had a member on here that tried to work very hard to muster up a society to help with just these kinds of things, *he warned us things could come to this yet many dismissed Rory as a dramatist............*



Gavin Murray warned us all in 1995.. hardly anyone listened then.


----------



## wohic

Caz said:


> Gavin Murray warned us all in 1995.. hardly anyone listened then.



Ostrich syndrome


----------



## Danbellini

Their actions are noble (the APA) however they have become so wrapped up in this that they don't care about the human cost. 
If we could get our arguments published nationwide than I'm sure we wouldnt have a problem with people making up ridiculous facts. Its because people are scared of what they don't know so they use scaremongering on the public to get the results they want. 
Personally, i dont see how eradicating the pet reptile trade is going to help the wild populations. The more they are captive bred, the less the impact in the wild.


----------



## PeteNhollie

ive just tried to ring elaine.....oh she was more than happy to talk to me till i mentioned what it was about...


----------



## gtm

to my mind Brentwood Council have cocked this up & the EARC would have strong grounds to judicially review this decision on the basis it's ultra vires. I have my doubts as to whether the FBH would have the standing to get involved.

I have extreme doubts any organisation calling it's self the 'Animal Protection Agency' - It seems to me the use of the word 'Agency' is designed to give the impression they are some form of official government body.


----------



## mikemike118

wohic said:


> nothing at all, you have passion and a fire in your belly which hopefully means you will want to help us show these people the good that we all do, they need our help, lets face it they all care deeply for animals , we care deeply, surely we should actually be on the same side trying to stop the smugglers, the dealers in poorly low end wild caught pet shop stock, the unnecessary whole sale slaughter of rattle snakes in the yearly round ups, thats all fights worth fighting and if we as two community's pulled together so much more could be achieved.


i understand what you mean! i think that if different community's did fuse together and they all have a say then there would be points that people would take note of and could possibly even change thoughts of different community's, and i totally agree that more can be done by discussing problems rather then swearing the odds and then no messages get to both community's, if i was older and had my own place i would be more then welcome for this, but unfortunately im only 17 and living with parents :lol2:


----------



## Tarn~Totty

17 pages....that was a long read!

Regardless of how angry we all are about stuff like this (I know it makes me seethe) its now about time we stood as one voice...and shouted alot to anyone who will listen :lol2:

What I mean is...getting behind the FBH, IHS etc in whatever way we can, trying to promote/educate people in and around the area where we live about reptiles and PROPER care, what exactly does happen at shows (proving they are not animal "markets")...and generally trying to get OUR point across in all of it.

I for one am sick and tired of reading the useless drivel the activists publish on the net and in the papers...none-reptile keepers seem to take it as gospel....why do the reptile keepers NEVER get a chance to respond to any of it? And if we do...what happens? Comments get deleted from websites. Its censorship, they get their say...we never get ours!!

Its infuriating...sorry if half of this isnt understood, I needed a rant about this sort of thing and found this thread to rant in :2thumb:


----------



## Johnboi19

wow that was a long read...... is there any news on wether this will be held anywhere else? i was really looking forward to this show?! please keep me updated!!!


----------



## madshawty

Johnboi19 said:


> wow that was a long read...... is there any news on wether this will be held anywhere else? i was really looking forward to this show?! please keep me updated!!!


 
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/reptile-shows-breeder-meetings/382727-fbh-statement-re-erac-show.html

Answers on that thread :2thumb:


----------



## wohic

_Statement dated 17:30, 22nd September 2009_

Contrary to the information circulated by the Animal Protection Agency, International Animal Rescue and other animal rights extremist organisations, the Federation of British Herpetologists [FBH] can confirm that the Essex Reptile and Amphibian Club show scheduled to take place on the 27th of September 2009 has not been cancelled. The relevant authorities are aware that the event is to take place and are satisfied that it fully complies with the law. The event will take place as expected. To prevent any further attempts to undermine it, however, the venue will not now be announced until Friday 25th September at 6pm.

 Chris Newman
 Chairman - Federation of British Herpetologists ..........
unquote


we owe the FBH our full support and gratitude folks
 







http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4765456


----------



## Crownan

wohic said:


> _Statement dated 17:30, 22nd September 2009_
> 
> Contrary to the information circulated by the Animal Protection Agency, International Animal Rescue and other animal rights extremist organisations, the Federation of British Herpetologists [FBH] can confirm that the Essex Reptile and Amphibian Club show scheduled to take place on the 27th of September 2009 has not been cancelled. The relevant authorities are aware that the event is to take place and are satisfied that it fully complies with the law. The event will take place as expected. To prevent any further attempts to undermine it, however, the venue will not now be announced until Friday 25th September at 6pm.
> 
> Chris Newman
> Chairman - Federation of British Herpetologists ..........
> unquote
> 
> 
> we owe the FBH our full support and gratitude folks
> 
> image



FBH :notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## mieze09

I just read this statement from the (APA) Animal Right Group and they made me laugh but also very annoyed in the same time and I tell you why I mean I'am just a new member of this forum but I thought to tell you my experience with the so called " Animal Right Groups. "

Last year I had been given a rescue cat from my friend who is a animal campainer but I don't talk to her anymore this cat came from a rescue operation from a well known cosmetic company who did made animal testing on her.

This was a 5 years old Ragdoll Cat a beautiful looking when my friend gave me this cat she was so underweight and scared it took me ages to bring her out of her shell and to trust me when I took her to the vet for a check up and was diagnosed with cancer stormach and kidney cancer and also with a brain tumor because of all the chemicals which this cosmetic company had injected in her body.

I called the cat Magic as she was something special to me,when I tryed to phone this so called Animal Right Group to let them know how Magic is and about her illness they did not wanted to know about.

None of this Animal compainer ever phoned me to ask me how Magic was going on even when the cat got worse it was me...who was day and night up with her and let her to sleep on my bed...it was me who cared about her when she got sick...even me suffering with depression and a eating disorder I know that I should not have the cat but you know what I did not mind because I knew the cat needed me the only people who cared about the cat was the RSPCA as I called them for help and not this so called Animal Right Groups.

When the cat got worse as she had a fit as she was in big pain I took her to the vet I knew it was time to let her go and put her to sleep I was the whole night with her at the vet and you what I would do it again even if it breaks my my heart and kills me.

I know that has nothing to do with the Reptile show at Brentwood but I went last year at the Brentwood Reptile show last year and there was nothing wrong with the show I actually loved it as I could meet like minded people and get some information about reptile keeping and yes I would back the Reptile show.

And if someone would try to stop me to go there I would say to back off.


----------



## qball75

_*" What a bunch of tree hugging hippy crap" Quoted by Cartman- Southpark.*_

On a serious note - Like others have said they need to come to some of our shows to see how well these so called "markets" are so well put together and the ammount of money, time and effort CB breeders put into making sure that the reptiles well being is accounted for and its not how they think it is.

I'm sure these people think its all under handed and dodgy goings on, they need to open thier eyes and stop being so narrow minded.

God damn it I love you guys :lol2:


----------



## Dave-Flames

I'm fed up of these people calling shows "markets"

They are quite blatantly jumble sales LMAO!!:Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## mieze09

If this lovely Animal Protection Agency really think that a reptile show is a " Market " and that is wrong what about the pet shops and gardening centres who are selling animals in a very poor conditon and the staff there don't hav a clue about their wellfare ? 

Oh this so called Animal Protection Agency is full of







smelly hot air. :cussing:


----------



## laurencea

i'm not going to the show, simply because there are no trains running and i don't fancy a random bus replacement service... however.

top marks to the organisers and FBH for their stance and determination. :notworthy:

L


----------



## Captainmatt29

wohic said:


> _Statement dated 17:30, 22nd September 2009_
> 
> Contrary to the information circulated by the Animal Protection Agency, International Animal Rescue and other animal rights extremist organisations, the Federation of British Herpetologists [FBH] can confirm that the Essex Reptile and Amphibian Club show scheduled to take place on the 27th of September 2009 has not been cancelled. The relevant authorities are aware that the event is to take place and are satisfied that it fully complies with the law. The event will take place as expected. To prevent any further attempts to undermine it, however, the venue will not now be announced until Friday 25th September at 6pm.
> 
> Chris Newman
> Chairman - Federation of British Herpetologists ..........
> unquote
> 
> 
> we owe the FBH our full support and gratitude folks
> 
> image http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4765456



Whats the best that the IAR now say they slam the council blah blah and that they are pushing for prosecutions at the council. they really do talk a whole load of BS


----------



## SleepyD

messengermatt said:


> Whats the best that the IAR now say they slam the council blah blah and that they are pushing for prosecutions at the council.


not that yet ~ they have posted this though :whistling2:
International Animal Rescue : News: Reptile dealers on the run: Animal market goes underground


----------



## Captainmatt29

"If the market organisers manage to get away with staging their event then they, along with the venue manager, may face prosecution. We will have evidence gatherers at the event recording criminal transactions that take place."

What a surprise i told you that was going to happen


but went on to say that the new venue would not be disclosed until Friday 25 September at 6pm (outside of council hours). The organiser claimed that the 'relevant authorities are aware of the event and are satisfied that it fully complies with the law.' However, no local council in Essex is aware of the event's whereabouts although all are now on high alert. The Animal Protection Agency has appealed for any information that may be useful and can be contacted on 01273 674253.

What a bloody joke again more lies it would seem, more like the council wont tell them what is going on


I think its going to need police officers on site to check for cameras etc because i dont think its right that they can film and get away with it


Oh and it says in the title on the run, thats funny we havent gone anywhere


----------



## gregmonsta

It's amazing how ridiculously closed minded these fanatics really are :bash:


----------



## jav07

i think everyone should give her a call,the more time she is answering calls the less trouble she can cause:2thumb:


----------



## fishboy

Would it be legal for the people on the door to ask people to show contents of their bags on entry?


----------



## wohic

lets hope no norty people tip them off with 'venue' details :whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## reptile_man_08

Doesn't that just annoy you.More BLATANT lies:lol2:


----------



## fishboy

fishboy said:


> Would it be legal for the people on the door to ask people to show contents of their bags on entry?



Not to stop people filming (there is nothing bad to film), more just to make sure anyone who attempts it gets exposed for what they are....


----------



## jav07

wohic said:


> lets hope no norty people tip them off with 'venue' details :whistling2::whistling2:


 they will find out on friday


----------



## reptile_man_08

fishboy said:


> To stop people filming....


I was going to say:whistling2:
I'm going to ask when entering if I can film, I will have a huge lug of a video camera (like 10 years old), as my normal camera broke...For the UKReptileCommunity channel on YouTube.Of course though, I won't be presenting the footage as a black market.


----------



## wohic

fishboy said:


> To stop people filming....


they would just use phones.

what they state happens and what actually happens at these show are actually a million miles apart.


----------



## fishboy

reptile_man_08 said:


> I was going to say:whistling2:
> I'm going to ask when entering if I can film, I will have a huge lug of a video camera (like 10 years old), as my normal camera broke...For the UKReptileCommunity channel on YouTube.Of course though, I won't be presenting the footage as a black market.



you got to that before i edited :lol2:


----------



## wohic

jav07 said:


> they will find out on friday


yeh i realized that after i posted......... ah we all have our blonde moments, even mods :lol2:


----------



## jav07

wohic said:


> yeh i realized that after i posted......... ah we all have our blonde moments, even mods :lol2:


 :lol2: atleast they can't hassle the council


----------



## Captainmatt29

wohic said:


> they would just use phones.
> 
> what they state happens and what actually happens at these show are actually a million miles apart.



I agree pictures can tell the wrong story especially when it comes to this incident


----------



## mieze09

I think that this so called animal proctors are going to cause trouble at the Essex show. :bash:


----------



## vickylolage

I just read all of this and Im enraged
These bloody activists need to go have a good rogering
Grrrrr

We went to Doncaster show in September I had my camera just cause I like to take pics of things I want and things Ive never seen. I saw the sign when I went in and was horrified. I had my IHS card and have been a member a few years and have spoken to a few of the organisers before so I had a chat with them. Thy said its ashame because a few hobbyists - genuine ones - can no longer photograph/film and document the day.

Each member of the public was given an IHS card and we asked why - we were told so they didnt get in trouble the cards given out to non-members were classed as temporary memberships and therefore any animals sold would technically be sold to members.

Its silly. I mean Im a member and so is the OH - my Mam came and she isnt so realistically she shouldnt have been allowed to get anything. Its going to get to the point where only members of the IHS and other organisations are going to be able to go to shows - thats if the shows last at the rate of persecution thats going on.

:devil:


----------



## mrmikey

Hi, Sorry Is this on ?

I did look in the first few pages but I am not know for my attenion span (Even Less So When Reading)

Thank You :blush:


----------



## reptile_man_08

mrmikey said:


> Hi, Sorry Is this on ?
> 
> I did look in the first few pages but I am not know for my attenion span (Even Less So When Reading)
> 
> Thank You :blush:


Yes, it will be announced friday 6pm where it will be held.


----------



## [email protected]

*Erac show*

Good on the organisers and all those who support it.
Dont let these ignorant narrow minded people disrupt the hobby.


----------



## Tarn~Totty

Are cameras allowed here then? We couldnt take pics at the last Donny show, not even with phone cameras...anyone found doing so would be asked to leave.

I dunno folks...but something really has to be done somewhere now...this is beyond a joke. Just skimmed over the last link to the latest pile of crap from "them"....comes over to me like they think theyve won some sort of battle! "market going underground" my arse, who they hell do these people think they are for gods sake?? "The authorities are on alert/standby" rubbish...whats all that about?? 

Really sick to the back teeth of this kind of garbage. They are getting away with putting out blatently bad researched articles painting every reptile keeper, breeder and shows/meetings as crap, irresponsible and cruel....and even worse, the general population will believe most of it.

Sorry for ranting again...it just pee's me off at times....think I need to have a drink and calm down!!

:beer8:

EDITED TO SAY.....

I really, really hope that everyone going to the show, has an absolutely brilliant time, meets loads of like-minded people, has a laugh, and gets themselves some beautiful new reptiles. DO NOT let "them" win...all enjoy your day!!! :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb: and dont forget, when you get back home...to post up loads of pics and threads about the show on the forums: victory:


----------



## mieze09

vickylolage said:


> I just read all of this and Im enraged
> These bloody activists need to go have a good rogering
> Grrrrr
> 
> We went to Doncaster show in September I had my camera just cause I like to take pics of things I want and things Ive never seen. I saw the sign when I went in and was horrified. I had my IHS card and have been a member a few years and have spoken to a few of the organisers before so I had a chat with them. Thy said its ashame because a few hobbyists - genuine ones - can no longer photograph/film and document the day.
> 
> Each member of the public was given an IHS card and we asked why - we were told so they didnt get in trouble the cards given out to non-members were classed as temporary memberships and therefore any animals sold would technically be sold to members.
> 
> Its silly. I mean Im a member and so is the OH - my Mam came and she isnt so realistically she shouldnt have been allowed to get anything. Its going to get to the point where only members of the IHS and other organisations are going to be able to go to shows - thats if the shows last at the rate of persecution thats going on.
> 
> :devil:


 
I think you right there that this show might end up where only members can go but I think it should be also open for the public,I went there last year and I loved it and I was thinking if I'am feeling better as I'am ill at the moment I would love to go. :flrt:


----------



## vickylolage

mieze09 said:


> I think you right there that this show might end up where only members can go but I think it should be also open for the public,I went there last year and I loved it and I was thinking if I'am feeling better as I'am ill at the moment I would love to go. :flrt:


Im feeling very 60's protesty revolutionary tonight
Anyone fancy staging a protest outside parliment and APA HQ?
Im off to pack my sleeping bag, banners, handcuffs and brightly coloured paint (this sounds like something from 18+ bahaha)

But seriously Im thinking we should do up some leaflets post them round - inform the public of what the hobby is really like
Fight the APA at their own game
ROOOOOOOOAR


----------



## mrmikey

reptile_man_08 said:


> Yes, it will be announced friday 6pm where it will be held.


Thanks. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## Caz

Perhaps the MODS could change the title to:
ERAC SHOW IS ON!!!
As this seems to be still making people believe its off??


----------



## mieze09

The problem is...if it is on here this forum on friday be announced where the venue is then some one from the animal protectors will find out and will try to sabotage the venue and cause trouble.

As I have read that this Animal Protection Agency already has found out from " Forum " that the venue is not cancelled.


----------



## Tarn~Totty

vickylolage said:


> Im feeling very 60's protesty revolutionary tonight
> Anyone fancy staging a protest outside parliment and APA HQ?
> Im off to pack my sleeping bag, banners, handcuffs and brightly coloured paint (this sounds like something from 18+ bahaha)
> 
> But seriously Im thinking we should do up some leaflets post them round - inform the public of what the hobby is really like
> Fight the APA at their own game
> ROOOOOOOOAR


Count me in hun!!! Up the ARA!!!! :devil:

And your spot on with the leaflet thing too!!


----------



## vickylolage

mieze09 said:


> The problem is...if it is on here this forum on friday be announced where the venue is then some one from the animal protectors will find out and will try to sabotage the venue and cause trouble.
> 
> As I have read that this Animal Protection Agency already has found out from " Forum " that the venue is not cancelled.


Spies :devil:
Hope your reading this... please go find something constructive to do with your time like protecting the daisies from being made into chains :whistling2:


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## vickylolage

Tarn~Totty said:


> Count me in hun!!! Up the ARA!!!! :devil:
> 
> And your spot on with the leaflet thing too!!


**We shall not we shall not be moved**
I'll pick you up on my way down to London lol
My Dads a taxi driver in Harrogate - not too far from you
We'll caj a free lift :2thumb:


As for the leaflets
Can I do that - like legally?
And do you think the IHS or FBH or both would back me?


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## andy007

Wooh what a read:gasp:

As the show is being held legally with the cooperation of the local authority etc etc....then it may be worth the organisers contacting the Local Police prior to the event. If it is believed that Antis will try to disrupt the event, this can be deemed as "Conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace", which is an arrestable offence.

It happened at a hunt meeting. An anti was demonstrating, and because it was likely that she would be hit by one or more huntsman, she was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace......simples: victory:


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## skittlemunsta

i know this is totally off topic now .... but anyway is the ERAC show on the 27th of September in shenfield high school cancelled or not??? soo confussed lol ta s


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## DazedLewis

its on, but the location is secret till friday to stop the antis...


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## Jamie

It's a rubbish show anyway. Not enough tarantulas.


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## DazedLewis

you have your own invert shows so BUGger off :lol2:


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## Ssthisto

skittlemunsta said:


> i know this is totally off topic now .... but anyway is the ERAC show on the 27th of September in shenfield high school cancelled or not??? soo confussed lol ta s


The event at Shenfield High School is not going ahead.

The ERAC show on the 27th of September IS going ahead, but at a new location, which will be announced on Friday at 6PM.


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## leopardgeckomad

i hope the antis aint goint to be at the venue and ruin it.


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## mieze09

I think if the venue place is announced on friday it should be a locked secret thread only for the forum members to read so anti maroons can't read it where it is :whistling2:


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## Ssthisto

mieze09 said:


> I think if the venue place is announced on friday it should be a locked secret thread only for the forum members to read so anti maroons can't read it where it is :whistling2:


You do realise that there are _members_ of this forum who are animal rights activists, right?


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## dulwichgeckos

If the new venue is revield on Friday it will be to late for the ARG to do anything about it boo hoo! 

They may turn up but out numbered 100-1


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## mieze09

Ssthisto said:


> You do realise that there are _members_ of this forum who are animal rights activists, right?


 
Ops I did not knew that,that they are members of this forum as I'am new by my self...sorry.:blush:


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## vickylolage

mieze09 said:


> Ops I did not knew that,that they are members of this forum as I'am new by my self...sorry.:blush:


She wasnt having a go just letting you know that some activists sign up and act as "spies" so even if we used the idea like you suggested they would find out.

No doubt they will show up - or at least write some BS on their website about the horrors of the show but if we band together behind the FBH and IHS things should get better


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## karlos79

and once this one is over i reckon they will next target the norwich show to cause disruptions as much as possible.


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## mieze09

I just have got a idea why we don't phone to this Animal Protection Agency and give them a fake date and location.:lol2:


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## Captainmatt29

Portsmouth show will probably be targeted next


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## Natrix

mieze09 said:


> I think if the venue place is announced on friday it should be a locked secret thread only for the forum members to read so anti maroons can't read it where it is :whistling2:


It will be fine to announce it to the world on Friday. Basically the new venue has previous experience of AR activists and is fully aware of the sort of stupid things APA will try to upset them. 
Also the new venue owners will not be looking at any communication received after 4pm friday until 9am monday morning, by which time the show will have been and gone. 

Natrix


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## andy007

Whats the web address of the IHS in the UK? Its like looking for a needle in a haystack:devil:


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## SleepyD

andy007 said:


> Whats the web address of the IHS in the UK? Its like looking for a needle in a haystack:devil:


Welcome to the International Herpetological Society
Welcome to The International Herpetological Society


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## Tarn~Totty

vickylolage said:


> **We shall not we shall not be moved**
> I'll pick you up on my way down to London lol
> My Dads a taxi driver in Harrogate - not too far from you
> We'll caj a free lift :2thumb:
> 
> 
> As for the leaflets
> Can I do that - like legally?
> And do you think the IHS or FBH or both would back me?


Hiya hun...not sure if we could do this legally or not to be honest...perhaps someone from either the IHS or FBH could tell us if we ask? : victory: maybe get some input from them and other site members and breeders about what we could put in the leaflets?

Dont think we would be doing anything wrong, as long as were not slagging the APA off in the leaflets, just giving out some facts about rep keeping and shows wouldnt be classed as illegal, would it?


I wouldnt mind printing some off and sending them out round were I am...drop some in at the rep shops too!


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## andy007

SleepyD said:


> Welcome to the International Herpetological Society
> Welcome to The International Herpetological Society


Super job cheers Sleepy:2thumb:


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## ian kerr

hi all
all being well we shall be at show with
some amazing boas and royals as usual!
hope to see many of you there!!
please come and say hi
ill have a name tag on but you can tell who
i am cos im the BEST looking guy there!!!
will be with matt horton and nick bessant and matt rendle

ian


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## skittlemunsta

So, sorry but im a bit slow trying to catch up with the latest ... The venue which will be announced tomorrow evening will be holding the show on what date? Will it still be Sunday?? Please help it's been a very LONG day lol  Ta


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## Connie_F

skittlemunsta said:


> So, sorry but im a bit slow trying to catch up with the latest ... The venue which will be announced tomorrow evening will be holding the show on what date? Will it still be Sunday?? Please help it's been a very LONG day lol  Ta


Please see http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/reptile-shows-breeder-meetings/382727-fbh-statement-re-erac-show.html


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## wohic

ian kerr said:


> hi all
> 
> please come and say hi
> ill have a name tag on but you can tell who
> i am cos im the BEST looking guy there!!!
> 
> 
> ian



modest as Ever Ian :flrt:


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## skittlemunsta

Magic thank you


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