# horse advise...... buy or not to buy????



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

im looking to buy a project horse that required alot of training and have been contacted about a little mare
she is now in full health etc but in the past she had stomach olsers and was treated for it now its cleared up..... is this horse prone to geting them agian?????? buy or stay well clear???? never had much to do with stomach olsers so dont really know much about them.......... : victory:


----------



## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

giant snail said:


> im looking to buy a project horse that required alot of training and have been contacted about a little mare
> she is now in full health etc but in the past she had stomach olsers and was treated for it now its cleared up..... is this horse prone to geting them agian?????? buy or stay well clear???? never had much to do with stomach olsers so dont really know much about them.......... : victory:


Is she an ex racer? Does she crib or windsuck?

Basically, to me, that would be so minor it wouldn't put me off compared to, say, having come out of racing for doing in a tendon or something.

From what I remember from the horsey world, ulcers in TBs are pretty common in stressful environments - I haven't really heard of them outside of that context but I'm sure they must be fairly common.


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

annabel said:


> Is she an ex racer? Does she crib or windsuck?
> 
> Basically, to me, that would be so minor it wouldn't put me off compared to, say, having come out of racing for doing in a tendon or something.
> 
> From what I remember from the horsey world, ulcers in TBs are pretty common in stressful environments - I haven't really heard of them outside of that context but I'm sure they must be fairly common.



its a pony newforst type by the look of her. no pure bred:lol2: no doesnt have any of them problems just with training etc she did have what dounds a very stressfull time with the previous owner that has her now and this is why the pony has been so ruined because she was an alcholic used to ride her drunk etc now the horse wont do anything..... i would have thought the olsers would be a diet problem???


----------



## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

giant snail said:


> its a pony newforst type by the look of her. no pure bred:lol2: no doesnt have any of them problems just with training etc she did have what dounds a very stressfull time with the previous owner that has her now and this is why the pony has been so ruined because she was an alcholic used to ride her drunk etc now the horse wont do anything..... i would have thought the olsers would be a diet problem???


Did a google for you, here's a link which pretty much agrees with what I thought -
Gastric ulcers in the horse: symptoms and treatment - Horses for sale, Equestrian news - Horse & Hound

"Stress created by training is one of the most likely causes of ulceration, and this can manifest itself in a horse breathing or panting more after exercise and going off its food."

Also, if the pony's a good-doer and has been on a restricted diet to prevent laminitis or not been fed regularly enough on roughage / too much hard feed, that could do it too. 

Might not be just one cause!


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

annabel said:


> Did a google for you, here's a link which pretty much agrees with what I thought -
> Gastric ulcers in the horse: symptoms and treatment - Horses for sale, Equestrian news - Horse & Hound
> 
> "Stress created by training is one of the most likely causes of ulceration, and this can manifest itself in a horse breathing or panting more after exercise and going off its food."
> ...



okay brilliant thank you :no1:


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

How old is it???? Personally i would stay away for the fact that you will never know how much work is too much until it flares up. Chances are the horse wont pass the vetting so anything could be wrong with it so they could be making something up to make you trust them


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

its only 8 yrs old.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

How much are they asking for it? Bearing in mind that in this economic climate it's hard to find good homes for sound horses let alone something with an illness history. You won't get insurance cover on anything to do with its past vetinary history so if it happens again all the bill will be yours.


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

Sylvi said:


> How much are they asking for it? Bearing in mind that in this economic climate it's hard to find good homes for sound horses let alone something with an illness history. You won't get insurance cover on anything to do with its past vetinary history so if it happens again all the bill will be yours.


its a project pony bay roan 13.2 £300...... its going to cost them atleast 70 petrol there and back to deliver it to me ( INC in price) its all passported etc seem very genuine sale and no rush to sell


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> its a project pony bay roan 13.2 £300...... its going to cost them atleast 70 petrol there and back to deliver it to me ( INC in price) its all passported etc seem very genuine sale and no rush to sell


How old?


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

selina20 said:


> How old?


8 yrs as posted above


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> 8 yrs as posted above


They can be managed via some meds and a specialist diet but surely you would prefer to spend the money on a horse without a worrying medical history?


----------



## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

Geniunely, I'd put money on the vet passing a horse with ulcers - it's not the type of thing which shows up in a vetting, and it is really common.

Merck Veterinary Manual

The Merck says 30% of adult horses have them. So long as you're not looking for a competition horse and you want an RC / hacking horse, I think you'll be alright (although it is ONLY my opinion and I definitely think you should ring the vet for phone advice even if you don't go for a full vetting, and probably ask beforehand because there's no point paying for a vetting if you'll fail on that anyway)

Good luck with whatever you decide to do but you might have another 20 years with a new forest, and you might never have a problem again - though you might have to give omeprazole from what that article says, which is a cheap medication, a couple of quid for a month's supply in humans.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

annabel said:


> Geniunely, I'd put money on the vet passing a horse with ulcers - it's not the type of thing which shows up in a vetting, and it is really common.
> 
> Merck Veterinary Manual
> 
> ...


The vet wont pass a horse if the condition is ongoing and you wouldnt be able to insure it. I do agree with perhaps phoning a vet for advice and even phone their vets to see what they say.


----------



## gecko lady (Jun 26, 2010)

i look after my old pony with his new owner, he had stomach olcars and as long as you make sure you are feeding right you can manage it. I would consult you vet and see if they can suggest a good diet for the horse and also if there are any supplements you can feed it ( i think we feed out horse something called gastro gaurd or something like that) keeping stress levels to a minimum also helps. Ensure he never goes long periods without food as horses are ment to have food in their stomachs all the time - which is why we feed little and often. Hope this helps


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

If you have set your heart on it, and it's a genuine sale, then I think I would ask for a trial period. You could pay for the transport of it, and basic insurance as this would be nothing compared to the costs and dissapointment if it all went wrong for you, after all, you might end up with a pony you can't use and would be a very expensive pet and impossible to sell on. If all went well, then you could purchase the pony after the trial period.

ps. make sure you get all its tack and rugs in with the price. A 13.2hh NF is a pretty common pony in these parts...... especially a gone wrong one!


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> If you have set your heart on it, and it's a genuine sale, then I think I would ask for a trial period. You could pay for the transport of it, and basic insurance as this would be nothing compared to the costs and dissapointment if it all went wrong for you, after all, you might end up with a pony you can't use and would be a very expensive pet and impossible to sell on. If all went well, then you could purchase the pony after the trial period.
> 
> ps. make sure you get all its tack and rugs in with the price. A 13.2hh NF is a pretty common pony in these parts...... especially a gone wrong one!


Im sure we were talking about new forests yesterday lol


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Im sure we were talking about new forests yesterday lol


I could see 3 x 13.2hhs from where we were standing. Just as a comparison though with the OP's dilema, the 14.3hh black cob that was at the back of the field, was bought for £500 as a just lunged 4 yr old. He is sound and healthy and just needed lots of time and attention. He's an absolute cracker, there are bargins to be found.


----------



## Postcard (Aug 29, 2010)

selina20 said:


> The vet wont pass a horse if the condition is ongoing and you wouldnt be able to insure it. I do agree with perhaps phoning a vet for advice and even phone their vets to see what they say.


The first post says that he's had them in the past and been treated for them i.e. no longer a problem was the way I read it :2thumb: 

I should have put 'had' in my post because really I mean 'has had in the past' not 'has now' but I'm having a ditsy (hungover) moment!

You're right though about ongoing / chronic problems and insurance - there is a lot of stuff I'd never touch because it's not worth the hassle :2thumb:


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

annabel said:


> The first post says that he's had them in the past and been treated for them i.e. no longer a problem was the way I read it :2thumb:
> 
> I should have put 'had' in my post because really I mean 'has had in the past' not 'has now' but I'm having a ditsy (hungover) moment!
> 
> You're right though about ongoing / chronic problems and insurance - there is a lot of stuff I'd never touch because it's not worth the hassle :2thumb:


Thing is they wont know what triggers them without the horse going through it . Thats the last thing someone would want their beloved animal going through. 

What is the reason for them selling????

Me being me wouldnt buy it due to there being loads of horses out there at absolute bargains.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

I think if there is a dilema enough to post a thread up I wouldn't buy. I'd wait and see what else comes up. 

Incidently Sel, the first Beaulieu road sales are in May if you fancy a day out..... and promise to bring no money and sit on your hands!


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> I think if there is a dilema enough to post a thread up I wouldn't buy. I'd wait and see what else comes up.
> 
> Incidently Sel, the first Beaulieu road sales are in May if you fancy a day out..... and promise to bring no money and sit on your hands!


Depends when in may hun because im in turkey for 2 weeks


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Depends when in may hun because im in turkey for 2 weeks


May 3rd.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> May 3rd.


I dont go till the 6th so yup i can go XD


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

the horse HAD the problem and never been a problem since. as already mentoind she took it off her friend due to her being an alcholic and ruined the horse which probably why it got them in the 1st place.......... for over 2 years its been in full health but has been looking for hte right person to bring it on and train it rather then it being a pet in a feild. its on no medication the vet said it doesnt need it and would be a waste of money.
thats why she is willing to bring it to me several hours away.
iv been looking for ages and there are no cheap horses apart from what the gypsy's sell wich are usally in a right state with no passports.

you cant expect a horse to have tack for 300!!! specially when it hasnt been riden or had much done with it for years! most the horses round here even as yearlings are all 400 - 900 and anything that is broken with full tack you are talking 2,000..............


im only looking for a pony to train and break in that needs the work put in to gain more experience.... not a 5* event horse galloped and jumped every day.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> the horse HAD the problem and never been a problem since. as already mentoind she took it off her friend due to her being an alcholic and ruined the horse which probably why it got them in the 1st place.......... for over 2 years its been in full health but has been looking for hte right person to bring it on and train it rather then it being a pet in a feild. its on no medication the vet said it doesnt need it and would be a waste of money.
> thats why she is willing to bring it to me several hours away.
> iv been looking for ages and there are no cheap horses apart from what the gypsy's sell wich are usally in a right state with no passports.
> 
> ...


No horse can be legally sold without a passport. Majority of gypsies keep their horses really well.


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

selina20 said:


> No horse can be legally sold without a passport. Majority of gypsies keep their horses really well.



they are a law to them self........... my friend has stupidly been buying several horses off several ' groups' none ever have passports all in a disgusting state can hardly walk becase of thier feet, can see every bone in their body, got lice, skin problems. iv never seen a good horse from any of the gypsys iv seen people buy.. then once has has fed them up and paid hundreds on vet and farrier bills the gypsys have been offering to buy it back for twice a much:devil:


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> they are a law to them self........... my friend has stupidly been buying several horses off several ' groups' none ever have passports all in a disgusting state can hardly walk becase of thier feet, can see every bone in their body, got lice, skin problems. iv never seen a good horse from any of the gypsys iv seen people buy.. then once has has fed them up and paid hundreds on vet and farrier bills the gypsys have been offering to buy it back for twice a much:devil:


Some of the best ponies iv owned have been gypsy horses. I would definitely try and get this horse vetted before u make a decision


----------



## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Horse wise a lot of the gypsies really look after their horses, shame that can't be said of all animals, or in fact all gypsies. There are variations in the culture just like there are in other peoples. That being said there was a live chicken thrown through a mcdonalds drive thru window up here on Saturday...yes really. They then drove off and left the staff and customers to catch it and try to figure out wtf had just happened and what the best course of action was.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Buy it then if you want it  You asked our opinions. You'll have to declare any previous vet history on the insurance form and you may find they'll exclude any cover for it. If you don't declare it and if it happens again, when you tell the vet about it it will come up on the report he submits. 

£300 is alot for a problem 13.2hh NF pony in my opinion, the initial purchase price is nothing compared to the long years of paying for its keep/vets/shoes etc. and 13.2hh Foresters are common here, if it were 14.2hh it might be different. I would rather save for a bit and pay a bit more for something. A lot of cheap horses go by word of mouth, it may be worth advertising for one in the wanteds......... 'good permanent loving home wanted for young pony 2 years and up....' ect.
(A 2 year old is usually a pretty economic buy, they are unbroken and usually unspoiled. One has a year to do all the groundwork - lungeing/longreining/walking out on roads etc and then one is away on something thats had a lot of time and love spent on it).


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Just out of interest, what are the ridden problems with it?


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I know of a 13.2 welsh mare for sale in foal to a coloured stallion £450


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

http://www.horsesforsale.co.uk/search/details/294273/131hh_Spotted_Mare.php

http://www.horsesforsale.co.uk/search/details/296487/Project_Pony_for_Sale_(Cheap).php

Preloved | youngsters for sale in Bristol, South Gloucester, UK


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

LOL Sel! I've done the same - mines in Kent

I'd go and look at this - Moonpig - Ad Horse UK. Horses for sale

and if I liked it make an offer.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

......... in fact I really like the sound of mine - vaccinated, wormed and gelded all for £500, that would make him a £200 3yr old.......... like to buy that myself!


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Or perhaps rescue this girl who will be taken and just bred continuously

Preloved | free to good home other in Crowle, Humberside, UK


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think I'd get something like that for a project. Thats more of a giving it a good home. Something young, or something that just needs reschooling or reconditioning and then maybe move it on later for the next project is what I think of as a project.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> I don't think I'd get something like that for a project. Thats more of a giving it a good home. Something young, or something that just needs reschooling or reconditioning and then maybe move it on later for the next project is what I think of as a project.


Would be a project to find her a good safe home rather than the knackerman which is where she will probably end up :-(


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

needs to be kent or sourrounding area's only unless can deliver. must be 12.2 - 14hh i dont want anything in foal as i do not have the space if i could not sell/ rehome the foal. only have another box for mini size.

the alcholic kind of broke her in and before she was in a bad state the horse used to hack out etc but refused to go forward into trot due to her riding all its back was checked teeth saddle etc nothing wrong with it then it was just left i n a feild for 2 years because she couldnt do nothing with it never groomed brought in etc her friend took the horse from her as she no longer wanted it and she tamed it agian and has had it for a few more years but doesnt have the knoledge to re break it. she contacted me via an ad i had put out. on the net.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> needs to be kent or sourrounding area's only unless can deliver. must be 12.2 - 14hh i dont want anything in foal as i do not have the space if i could not sell/ rehome the foal. only have another box for mini size.
> 
> the alcholic kind of broke her in and before she was in a bad state the horse used to hack out etc but refused to go forward into trot due to her riding all its back was checked teeth saddle etc nothing wrong with it then it was just left i n a feild for 2 years because she couldnt do nothing with it never groomed brought in etc her friend took the horse from her as she no longer wanted it and she tamed it agian and has had it for a few more years but doesnt have the knoledge to re break it. she contacted me via an ad i had put out. on the net.


Do you have the experience to rebreak her in??

Its not going to be as easy as breaking a fresh youngster in due to the psychological issues associated with it. The not going forward into a trot could be a sign of a nappy horse or it could be she was ridden when in pain with the ulcers.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

This thread could run forever, go and see it and play with it a bit. You'll soon see if it understands basic commands like walking and trotting in hand, lead it out in the traffic. See it ridden even if it's naughty. Get a feel for what you are taking on and take it from there. Try to guage if its a unschooled nappy cow bag, or a willing pony that doesn't have a clue whats going on. 

I bought a 14.2hh NF unschooled nappy cow bag project many years ago. After a huge amount of work she turned into quite a nice pony, but she was always a reluctant worker, always needed pushing along, always argued about cantering in the school, lunged beautifully but pulled horrible faces and might just turn and let fly at me with both barrells. I wish I'd bought a different personality to work with, as I would have kept her then. Quite dissapointing really.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> This thread could run forever, go and see it and play with it a bit. You'll soon see if it understands basic commands like walking and trotting in hand, lead it out in the traffic. See it ridden even if it's naughty. Get a feel for what you are taking on and take it from there. Try to guage if its a unschooled nappy cow bag, or a willing pony that doesn't have a clue whats going on.
> 
> I bought a 14.2hh NF unschooled nappy cow bag project many years ago. After a huge amount of work she turned into quite a nice pony, but she was always a reluctant worker, always needed pushing along, always argued about cantering in the school, lunged beautifully but pulled horrible faces and might just turn and let fly at me with both barrells. I wish I'd bought a different personality to work with, as I would have kept her then. Quite dissapointing really.


Agree with everything said here


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

i enjoy training horses. alot of people think im cazy wit what im willing to take on. iv saved two nut job ponies from the meat man they where almost wild very dangerous. had sent 2 people to hospital while trying to get them in the horse box where they where so flightly and constantly bucking. one took 8 months and the other took 6 months to train all had 3 nice paces respectfull kind honest ponies now are in family homes going to shows several times a year and doing x country with young children.
i have always like a challenge but as the horse is already tame, it just needs alot of ground work thats where pretty much everyone seems to go wrong with training horses.............

if someone doesnt want to take the horse on who knows what may happen to it. same with all the napping horses only takes time patence and a little bit of knoledge and they soon come round as people end up selling them if they cant get them to hack out on thier own or even go though the gates its crazy.
horses are people trainers...... its what they do but sadly they dont realise what fate they may end up in.


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

Sounds like you'll be fine with her. Still go to see her though, sometimes you get a picture in your mind that doesn't match when you see it for real. You may take one look at her and think she's not for me. NF's have a vast range of looks. Some are nice and some are aren't.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

giant snail said:


> i enjoy training horses. alot of people think im cazy wit what im willing to take on. iv saved two nut job ponies from the meat man they where almost wild very dangerous. had sent 2 people to hospital while trying to get them in the horse box where they where so flightly and constantly bucking. one took 8 months and the other took 6 months to train all had 3 nice paces respectfull kind honest ponies now are in family homes going to shows several times a year and doing x country with young children.
> i have always like a challenge but as the horse is already tame, it just needs alot of ground work thats where pretty much everyone seems to go wrong with training horses.............
> 
> if someone doesnt want to take the horse on who knows what may happen to it. same with all the napping horses only takes time patence and a little bit of knoledge and they soon come round as people end up selling them if they cant get them to hack out on thier own or even go though the gates its crazy.
> horses are people trainers...... its what they do but sadly they dont realise what fate they may end up in.


Perhaps go and meet her and see what happens. You dont really know until you have met her.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I find perfectly trained horses boring tbh


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

And I like perfectly trained  I don't like being pulled about, fidgeted with, napped with. I don't mind high spirits - ie. cantering downhill when the wind goes under tail and the horse says ''Wheeeeeeee yipeee!!!!'' But I like very good manners... especially in a childrens pony.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> And I like perfectly trained  I don't like being pulled about, fidgeted with, napped with. I don't mind high spirits - ie. cantering downhill when the wind goes under tail and the horse says ''Wheeeeeeee yipeee!!!!'' But I like very good manners... especially in a childrens pony.


I like teaching manners. My mare was a right pain in the butt when i got her.


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

alot of horses have lack of respect even fully broken ones which i can not stand..... and they tell me they are professinaly broken what a joke!,and in some cases due to lack of respect for people,turn highly agressive becuase of it. seen it alot when people dont have the confidence to tell the horses how to do it.
when a lady's horse i went to train a few years back had already broke her leg and fractured her collar bone though a kick and ran at her with teeth out....... all becuase she let the horse get its own way she couldnt catch it or go in the feild with it in the end. she was going to have it shot becuase it was classed as dangerous...... only took a few hours for the horse to learn respect, and now few years on she is happily riding it and regually does alot of ground work with it :no1: saved the poor thing being shot!


----------



## louisebt (Aug 22, 2011)

I know someone who took on a 'rescue' tb because they felt sorry for him, thousands of pounds on a vet later, visits from animal welfare and the horse was sadly PTS, but the reason for the ulcers he had we believe was the bute given after he was injured while racing....

You need to some to wales, we've thousands of ponies going to the meat man and other such places ... ponies sell in the sales for £10..... we also have a large gypsy breeder who i'm sure would have something to suit... even if you wanted something a bit project like!


----------



## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

giant snail said:


> they are a law to them self........... my friend has stupidly been buying several horses off several ' groups' none ever have passports all in a disgusting state can hardly walk becase of thier feet, can see every bone in their body, got lice, skin problems. iv never seen a good horse from any of the gypsys iv seen people buy.. then once has has fed them up and paid hundreds on vet and farrier bills the *gypsys* have been offering to buy it back for twice a much:devil:


 

No real gypsy would mistreat an animal, especially a horse. These aren't gypsys you are talking about, they are pikeys.



Seems strange that you have so much knowledge about the horses and yet haven't come across or know anythign about stomach ulcers in them. For the animals sake please don't do taking on too much - you could end up doing more harm to the animal than good. 

Sorry if what Ive said isn't what you want to hear but I am thinking of the animal.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Mrs Mental said:


> No real gypsy would mistreat an animal, especially a horse. These aren't gypsys you are talking about, they are pikeys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you hun. Some of the best horses i have ever had have been from gypsies. Its not just gypsies that breed the vanners. A lot of gypsies family livelihoods come from the horses and they are treated like royalty


----------



## Sylvi (Dec 30, 2008)

I think its dealers who are breeding the gypsy type up to 14.2hh vanners. There is a huge field full of vanner mares near here and they'll all drop foals this spring. I see fields full of them on my way up country too. They are a 'crop'. The big coloured vanner youngsters over 15hh may come over from Ireland, I haven't seen fields with that size in.


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Sylvi said:


> I think its dealers who are breeding the gypsy type up to 14.2hh vanners. There is a huge field full of vanner mares near here and they'll all drop foals this spring. I see fields full of them on my way up country too. They are a 'crop'. The big coloured vanner youngsters over 15hh may come over from Ireland, I haven't seen fields with that size in.


What annoys me is a lot of them arent good examples of a gypsy vanner. Also people saying coloured cobs are gypsy vanners when they blatantly arent lol


----------



## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

iv spoken to her vet regarding the horse and my own vet neither think there will be a problem what so ever.
she will be arriving in a few weeks time: victory:


----------

