# Sicarius information



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

hi guys,
does anybody have any extra information about the lethality and potential danger that these spiders have ? from what i've read, there has been one reported death, but apart from that, I can find nothing on the ld50 (i can imagine it's pretty damn low though, haha) 

Also, out of curiosity, is anybody keeping them ? if you do, got any photos that you fancy sharing and what do you think of the apparent potential lethality of them ?

thanks


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

Have you tried googling them? 

In seriousness, there was an article in a recent BTS journal regarding them, and Dan Kennard is probably worth sending a pm to. The lethality is a moot issue; far as I can see, if you keep them safely and correctly then a bite should be so unlikely as to not be a concern.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

yes, i have. not much information apart from speculation from what i can see
i'm not a member, so i can't get the bts stuff, i don't think


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

Tom, I think J/ Lucozade3000 has Sicarius terrosus. Plus, a quick forum search for Sicarius came up with a few users who have kept members of the Sicarius genus. 

And stop bloody complaining about inverts not being on the DWA Act:whip:. It's bad enough as it is, we don't want more species being added to it


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

The DWAA is set up to protect the public not the keeper. One of the main reasons I can see that these animals are not on it (or at least haven't yet been added to it) is that an escapee is incredibly unlikely to do any damage at all to anyone as it is a very timid species that will seek refuge and is likely to die pretty quickly in our climate, plus is reluctant to bite and has small fangs.


I also seem to remember a year or so back when sand spiders were discovered to have this 'uber-lethal' venom and instantly became 'popular' amongst a select few invert keepers that a number of people questioned the 'fact' that the venom is so dangerous and whether the confirmed death was actually due to the species in question or not.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

callum b said:


> Tom, I think J/ Lucozade3000 has Sicarius terrosus. Plus, a quick forum search for Sicarius came up with a few users who have kept members of the Sicarius genus.
> 
> And stop bloody complaining about inverts not being on the DWA Act:whip:. It's bad enough as it is, we don't want more species being added to it


they need to re-evaluate the whole thing 
loads coming off and a few going on !
i'll message him about 'em !
i hadn't searched this forum
thanks, callum !
also, how's your scorps ?


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

bothrops said:


> The DWAA is set up to protect the public not the keeper. One of the main reasons I can see that these animals are not on it (or at least haven't yet been added to it) is that an escapee is incredibly unlikely to do any damage at all to anyone as it is a very timid species that will seek refuge and is likely to die pretty quickly in our climate, plus is reluctant to bite and has small fangs.
> 
> 
> I also seem to remember a year or so back when sand spiders were discovered to have this 'uber-lethal' venom and instantly became 'popular' amongst a select few invert keepers that a number of people questioned the 'fact' that the venom is so dangerous and whether the confirmed death was actually due to the species in question or not.



aye, there is that !
protecting the public, instead of the person who gets the closest to the animal lol. 
i think they're pretty boring looking, but the way they burrow in the sand looks neat. they sort of shiver and eventually sand goes on them


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Actually, on further research it isn't the toxicity that is in question as the venom appears to be well researched. It's the sketchy reports of 'deaths' that are unsubstantiated. It appears the main question is over the spiders ability to actually be physically able to behaviourally inclined to administer its lethal cocktail of enzymes...

A good post including a few references to chase can be found here at the bottom from 'coffin pest'

Just how venomous are Sicarius? - Page 4


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

GRB said:


> Have you tried googling them?
> 
> In seriousness, there was an article in a recent BTS journal regarding them, and Dan Kennard is probably worth sending a pm to.
> 
> The lethality is a moot issue; far as I can see, if you keep them safely and correctly then a bite should be so unlikely as to not be a concern.


How can the lethality be moot? If anything the lethality should always be of concern when considering a species such as this in my opinion.
I've heard of loads of 'expert' reptile and tarantula keepers who get bitten by OBT's, pokies and all sorts (maybe its a one time mistake, but the point still stands).... And alot of these people may also consider this spider to be something they could keep. To them, the lethality should be a serious concern, even if it is a spider which is unlikely to bite

EDIT: to me, this spider being on DWA would help as it would help to ensure that the spider is kept in a more controlled environment which DWA keepers usually try to have with their collections (protocols, safety, etc), rather then just another spider in a huge collection


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## lucozade3000 (Aug 16, 2008)

I love that spider.
It's pretty shy and would rather run and hide than bite. Now if you decide to poke it in the eye (any of the 6) it will probably be the last thing you do.
They are very good hunters and pretty fast too.
They have a cytotoxic venom attacking every organ that require blood irrigation (so yeah, everything) it takes about 10 to 15 mn to kill a rabbit.
There are very few interactions in the wild between man and this spider due to its habitat.
That person that died is certainly not the only one but the only recorded one. 
I think i wrote a few pieces about it, check it out.

That's the eggsac!!! amazing isn't it? bit larger than a 1p coin but smaller than a 2p. It is red because the sand used in the enclosure was red (Outback)


















-J


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## callum b (Sep 8, 2008)

I love the eggsacs these guys make.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

NIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCEEEE !!!
they are actually amazing
the first few photos are great
and that egg sac ? that's awesome
i need one, just to take photos of lol


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

lucozade3000 said:


> That's the eggsac!!! amazing isn't it? bit larger than a 1p coin but smaller than a 2p.


So, like a 10p coin then? 


...Or approximately 3 times the size of a 5p coin, or like a £2 coin -minus a 1p coin.


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## lucozade3000 (Aug 16, 2008)

I wuv You! :flrt:

They don't eat much, i feed it 2-3 times a month, depend on the size of the crix..

-J


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## lucozade3000 (Aug 16, 2008)

And no, the hunt when hungry, night or day...

-J


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## billsy (Nov 29, 2008)

It's definately worth sending Dan a pm. He and Wes Flower had possibly the first 2 egg sacs in the uk. Dan mated and Wes incubated for the first sac and the opposite for the second sac. 

: victory:


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## GRB (Jan 24, 2008)

OrigamiB said:


> How can the lethality be moot? If anything the lethality should always be of concern when considering a species such as this in my opinion.
> I've heard of loads of 'expert' reptile and tarantula keepers who get bitten by OBT's, pokies and all sorts (maybe its a one time mistake, but the point still stands).... And alot of these people may also consider this spider to be something they could keep. To them, the lethality should be a serious concern, even if it is a spider which is unlikely to bite
> 
> EDIT: to me, this spider being on DWA would help as it would help to ensure that the spider is kept in a more controlled environment which DWA keepers usually try to have with their collections (protocols, safety, etc), rather then just another spider in a huge collection


I didn't mean moot as in not worth thinking about; rather I meant that if you keeping the species correctly then a bite should be a non-issue 99.9999% of the time. 

Putting something on DWA doesn't mean people treat it with more respect all the time - there's plenty of people we catch on here from time to time without DWAL keeping DWA. 

I think the onus should be on those keeping the species not to sell to users likely to make an arse of the husandry. If I had this species, I certainly wouldn't sell offspring to anyone I didn't consider on par or above my experience. I'd hate to be linked to supplying someone a spider that caused a potentially dangerous bite if I had my doubts in the first place they could handle the husbandry.


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