# T+ Albino Corns?



## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Is this a simple recessive trait? Who here has them? I hear they are a fairly new mutation.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

All the photographs of "T+ albino" I have ever seen look *amazingly* like:

1. Ultramels
AND
2. Recent grey rat snake hybrids


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## hogboy (Aug 22, 2006)

Heres a couple of mine
never really been convinced of the rat snake thing, its been done to death on some of the uS forums.
Other than that i've no clue -)


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## Herp_boi (May 12, 2008)

i see what you mean about the ratsnake.
Lovely snake!:notworthy:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Well, one person on one of the American forums DID manage to produce ultramel-looking snakes from a first-generation cross between an amel-based corn snake and a "White Oak" phase grey rat snake.

Your first animal (the one with the grey-white head) doesn't look pure corn to me at all, and if someone said it had a pure grey rat parent I wouldn't be surprised. Have you tried breeding them to Amel corns to see what happens?

If it's a new gene it SHOULD produce normals het for T+albino and Amel; if it produces Amels and "T+Albinos" then you know you're PROBABLY working with Ultramel.


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

CPR have T+ Albino corns and T+ Albino het for amel corns on their site. The description just says "a new kid on the block, the T+ albino corn snake" Crystal Palace Reptiles and according to their listing there it's all _Pantherophis guttatus_, no other species involved. Are they really lying about it or don't know it's a hybrid?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Crystal Palace was also listing corns het for Motley AND Stripe that were normals.

If the snakes were sold to Crystal Palace as "T+ Albinos" (whether or not they're ultramels) then they're likely to sell them as such... whether or not it's correct.

I want to know how they know it's het Amel... and specifically, what it was bred to to prove this AND what the entire clutch looked like.


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Crystal Palace was also listing corns het for Motley AND Stripe that were normals.


Yeh that doesn't make sense. I thought if they are het for both, they are a visual motley?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

That's absolutely right, Ladybird. So I take the other descriptions on the site with a pinch of salt.

If the T+ Albinos LOOK like an ultramel and BREED like an ultramel... they're probably ultramels.


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## spirit975 (May 15, 2007)

I agree with Ssthisto on this. I`ve got a corn from Crystal Palace who is "het motley and stripe" will be interesting to find out which of the 2 he is actually het for as its obviously not both.

To be honest, i don`t really like playing with anything that has too much possible ratsnake influence. I realise that now with all the new morphs, line breeding etc that nearly all morphs will have some rat influence somewhere along the lines, but genes such as T+ and Ultra are too close to being "possible" hybrids for my liking.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Incidentally, technically speaking an ultramel IS "het amel" ... it just also happens to be "het ultra" which produces the phenotype.


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

ladybird said:


> Yeh that doesn't make sense. I thought if they are het for both, they are a visual motley?


I was led to believe a het stripe could put out motleys if bred to a motley???
if thats correct maybe thats why CPR have said het motley and stripe?
Is that correct??? or not?:blush:


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

'The computer says YES'
which suggests all stripes are het motley. Or is that a computer glitch?


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## toyah (Aug 24, 2006)

kennedykrew said:


> 'The computer says YES'
> which suggests all stripes are het motley. Or is that a computer glitch?


It's because motley is dominant to stripe. A snake that has one motley gene and one stripe gene will be visually motley.

A motley from a het motley parent to a het stripe parent will have one motley gene and one stripe gene - and so can produce striped babies.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

I think a fair few of the newer morphs look very rat hybrid-ish

the whole pure corn thing certainly comes into question.. quite interesting infact...


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

sparkle said:


> I think a fair few of the newer morphs look very rat hybrid-ish
> 
> the whole pure corn thing certainly comes into question.. quite interesting infact...


what morphs are you chatting about?


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## Molly75 (Jul 10, 2006)

MY T+ lines come from a very well respected European seller who i have quizzed on many occassions about the T+ hybrid confusion which as hogboy (Ian) was saying has been quizzed to death by the Yanks) I have T+ and one of the males does not look like an ultramel or a hybrid infact we call this pair cut and shut snakes as they look different from top to bottom I'll get pics when i have a spare min.

cheers paula


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

i'd love to see some close pics, especially of the head and belly


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