# anyone been bitten?



## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

im doing a project on the effectiveness of the dangerous wild animals act on the safe keeping of venomous snakes. i read on this website http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj;331/7527/1244 that apparently "This underground zoo reveals itself on average* only five **or six times each year in the UK* when bitten owners are forced to seek medical help."
I also read seperately that the last death by an exotic venomous snake in the UK happened over 100 years ago when a drunk keeper in London zoo was bitten by a cobra. surely if there were this many bites happening each year requireing hospital treatment then there would have been another death since? i would like to know if anyone of this part of the forum has been bitten before by the snakes venemous snakes they keep. if so how did it happen, eg. while moving it, feeding it etc. 

and also if anyone gets bitten what proceedures do they have in place, eg. type of snake etc, on card attached to themselves. or anything else. this would be very helpful as so far i cant find much out about anyone that has been bitten. if you want to remain anonomous the please PM me and the forum wont have to know. if possible i would like to include an account of what happened to someone in my project, but i can keep you anonomous.

thank you very much for taking the time to read this, and / or giving any information which may be of use


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

someone has already posted a similar thread not too long ago


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## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

I got bitten (vey foolishly I might add) by a venomous snake in my collection last Febuary.
It happened whilst puting the lid back on a plastic tub that housed a very aggressive Desert-Horned Viper (Cerastes cerastes) and she just managed to nail me with one of her fangs. It was exstremely painfull immiediately and after making sure the snake was put away safely I drove myself to hospital.
I informed the staff that the venom was not all that toxic and I was treated with anti-inflamatories for the swelling and morphine for the pain and kept in overnight for observation. The swelling went down after a few days and there were no long-term effects.

I have always seen it as a learning experience. She was the least venomous snake in my collection and perhaps I had allowed myself to become complacent with her for that reason. Also I had just finished work and had been up since 5am and was very tired and should probably have have not been working with my venomous.
Two mistakes I shall not repeat again.

I dread to think what if it had been my Puff Adder.......


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

Had a few bites, puff adder included.
@Trueviper, stay away from the pointy end of that puff, trust me


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

Yeah Martin I’ve avoided puffies but I can safely say I’m a member of the Bite Club. LoL


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

if i get bitten then i just go to the hospital... simples!:lol2:


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

trueviper said:


> I informed the staff that the venom was not all that toxic and I was treated with anti-inflamatories for the swelling and morphine for the pain and kept in overnight for observation. The swelling went down after a few days and there were no long-term effects.


I think you're very lucky you didn't get a much stronger reaction. People grossly underestimate the power of Cerastes venom. 
Some years ago a friend of mine (who shall remain nameless as he was not licensed at the time) was bitten by a young adult C. cerastes. Like you he assumed the venom wasn't too severe, so decided not to bother going to hospital. Part of this decision also probably came from the fact he didn't hold a license.
After 2 days he felt so unwell he finally did go to hospital and was immediately rushed to intensive care. His liver was failing, his kidneys were failing, and his blood was virtually incoaguable. During his stay in hospital he went into multiple organ system failure and was very lucky to live, and received numerous blood transfusions before his clotting function was returned to a healthy level.
To the best of my knowledge the envenomation was severe enough to warrant involvment by David Worrell.
My friend lived, but to this day still has impaired liver and kidney function.
You obviously did the right thing by going to hospital, and fortunately got no lasting damage. If all you got was pain and swelling I'd say with some confidence that the amount of venom injected was virtually zero.
Seeing how close it came to killing my friend was eye opening considering how insignificant many people consider their venom.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

mad martin said:


> stay away from the *pointy end *of that puff, trust me


Hahahaha thats so funny but for all the wrong reasons


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

thanks for all the info. thanks to trueviper for the very informative account. can i use this case as a study example? i would also like to use the one from terciopelo_dave to show what can happen without licensing if people try to stay away from hospital to avoid getting into trouble. i will make up names for both instances.




wildlifewarrior said:


> Hahahaha thats so funny but for all the wrong reasons


lol. trust you to be the one seeing that.


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

might as well uise the same thread to as what proceedures keepers use when working with their snakes incase they are bitten. does anyone make sure their local hospital keeps antinvenom for the species they keep? or only work with them if someone slse is present etc.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

trw said:


> might as well uise the same thread to as what proceedures keepers use when working with their snakes incase they are bitten. does anyone make sure their local hospital keeps antinvenom for the species they keep? or only work with them if someone slse is present etc.


no local hospitals keep anti venom, unless you live nears London poisons unit or LSTM, then very few places apart from that keep stocks.


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

If you want to keep an exotic venomous snake don’t expect anti-venom in a hurry.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## trw (Mar 2, 2009)

so what would happen if you were bitten and lived miles away from london or liverpool? antivenom would be helicoptered? local zoos would have it? you would just be stabilised in hospital and treated without it?


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

*Some* envenomations can be symptomatically managed whilst AV arrives. Although the longer the stuff is allowed to work on you the worse the damage is going to be, especially in the case of haemotoxic and cytotoxic venoms. Neurotoxins can generally be classified as pre, or post-synaptic, presynaptic toxins are predominantly present in Kraits and the damage caused is irreversible, even with AV. Postsynaptic toxins can be managed by life support until the body eliminates the venom.


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## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

terciopelo_dave said:


> I think you're very lucky you didn't get a much stronger reaction. People grossly underestimate the power of Cerastes venom.
> Some years ago a friend of mine (who shall remain nameless as he was not licensed at the time) was bitten by a young adult C. cerastes. Like you he assumed the venom wasn't too severe, so decided not to bother going to hospital. Part of this decision also probably came from the fact he didn't hold a license.
> After 2 days he felt so unwell he finally did go to hospital and was immediately rushed to intensive care. His liver was failing, his kidneys were failing, and his blood was virtually incoaguable. During his stay in hospital he went into multiple organ system failure and was very lucky to live, and received numerous blood transfusions before his clotting function was returned to a healthy level.
> To the best of my knowledge the envenomation was severe enough to warrant involvment by David Worrell.
> ...


Very sorry your friend had such a terrible reaction and that he is still suffering for it. That is very unfortunate.
It would appear that I was much luckier with my envenomation than I thought.


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

trueviper said:


> Very sorry your friend had such a terrible reaction and that he is still suffering for it. That is very unfortunate.
> It would appear that I was much luckier with my envenomation than I thought.


Lucky? Yes. Very in my opinion. But you also did the right thing by going straight to hospital. If your symptoms had progressed you'd have had help immediately to hand.
As Stu said, the longer the venom has to work on you the more severe the effect. I think had my friend gone straight to hospital he would have received antivenom promptly and avoided some of the lasting damage.
In all honesty though, my friend had it coming. He routinely free handled everything he owned. Did it with a Desert Horned and very nearly paid the ultimate price. Both fangs, full bore, straight into the palm of his hand.


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

SiUK said:


> no local hospitals keep anti venom, unless you live nears London poisons unit or LSTM, then very few places apart from that keep stocks.


im only half hr from liverpool royal should the worst ever happen and iv specifically written on the front of my bite protocols that im to be taken to liverpool not my local hospital


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

my protocols have instruction to take me to Birmingham poisons unit and not my local hospital which deal with any one who is bitten at West midlands safari park:whistling2:


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

would be interesting to see if the would actually follow them or not


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

in my experience its quicker to get yourself to hospital than wait for an ambulance


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## paulrimmer69 (Oct 26, 2008)

i wouldnt fancy it in rush hour though!


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## cheesekipper (Mar 16, 2010)

This is fascinating the risks you all take and accept in such a sober manner


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