# Discussion on various Chinese manufactured products



## peterf (Jul 27, 2007)

I thought I would start a new thread as I think this topic is very important for all readers.
As you will all know from various posts on this forum and numerous products for sale on E Bay and Amazon from various obscure and unheard of brands and sellers, there are a huge number of products coming in from many Countries including China.
The problem I am seeing all the time is that, with the advent of Alibaba and other manufacturing and seller web sites it is just too easy for anyone to source and buy products from Chinese manufacturers and brand them as their own, that are unproven, poorly made and in many instances a danger to the animals and the user.
China make some very good products but it is true to say that in general you get what you pay for. There are many spot bulb manufacturers, for example in China and many are very cheap. Some are better made and these will always cost more. They are better made with higher quality components and all that costs more. 
All of the cheap ones will be poor quality.
The problem with a number of these products is that they are potentially damaging and dangerous products.
People will always want cheaper prices and it is always good to have a choice of products and many people may choose the cheaper option as they may not have the funds to buy the better product. That is all very well if the product they are buying works as it should and presents no dangers to the animals or the users.
Take a look on E bay or Amazon at all the obscure brand names and sellers. I wonder where they will be when problems are encountered with their products?
Take for example heat mats.
As far as I can see every single Chinese manufactured heat mat does not conform to low voltage directive safety standards.
Any product that does not include an earth (and heat mats cannot, rather like lamps) has to conform to what is called class 11 standards and all need to be double insulated.
I haven't seen one that is. All are single laminated.
Many carry the "class 11 / double insulated" logo but I have yet to see one that is.
Most are able to be pealed apart without the use of tools to expose live mains.
Most all have inadequate termination and cable attachment.
Many of these are being used in Childrens bed rooms and people are oblivious of the potential dangers. I cringed at Doncaster on Sunday watching a lady with her young daughter, leopard gecko and housing underarm together with a branded heat mat that didn't conform to standards! 
Take a look at the posts where these mats have melted and caused potentially very dangerous problems.
UV emitting lamps can be equally dangerous.
Poor quality lamps are generally reflected by their cheap price. There is no such thing as a good quality lamp that is cheap. 
Not only the costs of research that goes into making a good quality lamp but the cost of the expensive glass and phosphors that combined make a lamp that is safe and effective for use. All this costs to manufacture.
I do know that there are investigations in hand with respect to a lot of these issues but the problem will be that Trading Standards officers do not have budgets to have these products independently tested to appropriate standards and so they usually rely of the Chinese CE approval or test certificate.
Please be aware of these issues when you next post that thread entitled "where can I buy the cheapest UV lamps from?".
Cheapest is without doubt not the best, particularly when using products that could damage your animals or your childs eyesight or set fire to your home.
Please buy with caution!


----------



## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Good post Peter, heres a classic example a video i made of an ebay lighting controller....

Cheap Vivarium Lighting Controllers from ebay - YouTube

As you can see clearly dangerous and non compliant, but cheap!


----------



## LFBP-NEIL (Apr 23, 2005)

Not to mention the UVC emitting UVB lamps, the el cheapo heat mats and 70p ceramic lamp fittings that screw directly to the viv roof with exposed live terminals. Please think twice before purchasing this crud off of ebay as retailers like myself are now having to sell premium products at silly prices to compete with this rubbish and stay in business so not only are you buying crud with no warranty and serious safety issues, all the respectable sellers will have thrown the towel in and given up!


----------



## peterf (Jul 27, 2007)

LFBP-NEIL said:


> buying crud with no warranty and serious safety issues, all the respectable sellers will have thrown the towel in and given up!


A recent thermostat seller who seems to have disappeared springs to mind and yet there are still a few supporters on here making excuses for them and advising people to repair their own faulty stats!!


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




----------



## reptiles-ink (Nov 4, 2006)

Bear in mind though as said some good stuff can come from china.
I stock and use some products which are cheaper due to the branding but are made to the same spec at the same factory as a leading brand just with a different name printed on it.


----------



## Arcadiajohn (Jan 30, 2011)

Hi Fella, do you have an example as I am not aware of any cross branding?

Certianly anything Arcadia produce has undergone a design process,a whole year of in-house testing, independent paid testing and we own ALL of the moulds and intelligent info that costs so much.

In a typical case a lamp would actually be 3-5 years in R&D, safety testing, international accreditation, independent verification and then marketing. That's how we give 5 YEARS guarantee on controllers and a whole year on lamps. We know the outputs and lifespan and we publish this for all to see. 

All of our flouro lamps are made in Germany so that we can be sure of consistent, safe, upper level outputs for extended periods.

For us as a statement that can stay on record. We are 100% committed to improving animal welfare the world over, we are committed to be first to the table with new and emerging science and we are committed to make these improvements affordable for all.

A company run by reptile fanatics for reptile fanatics dead set on achieving our 
goal of starting "A Revolution In Reptile Care"

All the best

John 



reptiles-ink said:


> Bear in mind though as said some good stuff can come from china.
> I stock and use some products which are cheaper due to the branding but are made to the same spec at the same factory as a leading brand just with a different name printed on it.


----------



## reptiles-ink (Nov 4, 2006)

I have various items the same as exoterra such as terrarium locks and ceramic bulbs


----------



## bev336 (May 10, 2007)

peterf said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I think this topic is very important for all readers.
> As you will all know from various posts on this forum and numerous products for sale on E Bay and Amazon from various obscure and unheard of brands and sellers, there are a huge number of products coming in from many Countries including China.
> The problem I am seeing all the time is that, with the advent of Alibaba and other manufacturing and seller web sites it is just too easy for anyone to source and buy products from Chinese manufacturers and brand them as their own, that are unproven, poorly made and in many instances a danger to the animals and the user.
> China make some very good products but it is true to say that in general you get what you pay for. There are many spot bulb manufacturers, for example in China and many are very cheap. Some are better made and these will always cost more. They are better made with higher quality components and all that costs more.
> ...


I am in total agreement with Peter on this, I have noticed a number of items being sold that worry me. One is a ceramic lampholder with fitted wire and inline switch, which has no earth fitting, but obviously designed to take a metal reflector, and heat resistant cable being sold which is not silicon insulated but PVC, this is only rated to 90 deg C, and is not suitable for use with ceramic bulbs. There is also a number of complete lamps being sold with a metal reflector and no earth fitting. We have just spent nearly 2 years developing a range of UV lamps, but during this time we have tested a large number of Mercury Vapour lamps and infra red lamps, we have had some of these explode during testing. IEC testing is expensive, and just because the Chinese manufacturer says it conforms to UL or it is CE marked does not mean it is safe or the same quality as more expensive products.


----------



## ian kerr (May 12, 2006)

HABU said:


> image


We don't need to dude!
Some of the best mats and stats are made HERE in the UK


----------



## peterf (Jul 27, 2007)

Another thing to consider when buying from these people.
Do they have liability insurance?
As many of the products will not conform to standards they may well be uninsured even if they do have insurance.
The likelihood however is that they will have no insurance cover and should one of these heat mats burn in your home or one of the UV lamps cause your children eyesight damage there will be no compensation.
This isn't scaremongering- I am trying to bring more awareness to these major problems.


----------



## bev336 (May 10, 2007)

peterf said:


> Another thing to consider when buying from these people.
> Do they have liability insurance?
> As many of the products will not conform to standards they may well be uninsured even if they do have insurance.
> The likelihood however is that they will have no insurance cover and should one of these heat mats burn in your home or one of the UV lamps cause your children eyesight damage there will be no compensation.
> This isn't scaremongering- I am trying to bring more awareness to these major problems.


 
Unfortunately, most of the people buying these items in from China, have no technical knowledge of the product, or how the test the item correctly.


----------



## Greenm1201 (Mar 11, 2015)

Sorry to rehash a REALLY old thread, but I find the subject quite interesting. A few people have mentioned price as the indicator of quality, which seems to make no sense... 
If you buy a bulk of these cheap products and then re market them in line with branded prices, it does not therefore make them a quality, safe product. Nor if I develop a rubbish product & price it high does it make it quality nor safe. 
Equally, I don't believe that all cheap Chinese imports can be of poor quality & dangerous. 
I was under the impression that if foreign products were CE stamped and British products Kite Marked, that this meant they had undergone testing and were at least safe to use (if not necessarily the best quality). If that isn't the case, how DO you know if a product is safe to use? And surely the answer can't just be 'use the reputable names' as at one point, companies like Arcadia etc didnt have their reputation, not to mention, how are smaller and newer companies supposed to stand a chance if everyone assumes there products are terrible?


----------

