# Setting up an animal park - licensing and other info?



## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Hey, myself and my mum as well as other family members are in talks about settting up our own kind of animal park, we are just wondering what kind of licenses etc that you need to do this? We wouldn't be selling any animals on site, and we would have a cafe as well. We are also thinking of setting up some kind of dog park with it, where visitors can leave their dogs whilst they go inside.

Thanks, Jenn


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

You will need a zoo license if you intend to allow members of the pulic to view the animals on a regular basis.

It's seperate to pet shop licenses and nothing to do with the sale of animals, it's the Zoo Licensing Act of 1981 you want to research, which states you need a license if you are a "zoo", defined as



> "[as] an establishment where wild animals are kept for exhibition to the public otherwise than for the purposes of a circus and otherwise than as a pet shop; and this Act applies to any zoo to which members of the public have access, with or without charge for admission, on more than seven days in any period of 12 consecutive months".



The more than 7 days in any period means that some rescues and private centers can have "open days" and not need a zoo license, however anyone who's open to the public more than 7 days an any 12 months requires one.


There is a lot of debate at the moment as more and more charities and rescues are being threatened to be closed down without a zoo license, even though people do not pay entry, see this news article for example BBC News - Zoo licence row closes Cornwall tortoise sanctuary, but a similar thing is happening to an Owl Sanctuary I believe.



There is more information on the ZL here Defra, UK - : Wildlife Protection - Zoos - Zoo licensing act 1981


But like the PSL the zoo license is ultimately issued and regulated by your local council so it's them you will need to speak to in regards to costs, inspections, and so on.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Athravan said:


> You will need a zoo license if you intend to allow members of the pulic to view the animals on a regular basis.
> 
> It's seperate to pet shop licenses and nothing to do with the sale of animals, it's the Zoo Licensing Act of 1981 you want to research, which states you need a license if you are a "zoo", defined as
> 
> ...


Thanks very much, is it the same as PSL in that the cost of the licence varies from county to county? It's such a shame about the confusion over charities and sanctuaries.

Thanks, Jenn


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## 337smile (Aug 20, 2009)

As above, you definitely need a zoo licence and public liability insurance too. I handled a zoo licence application for an animal park I was working on three years back. The difficulty of the application is dependant on how helpful your local council is.

From what I recall the application consisted of several sections including listing proposed animal species, how they will be cared for and housed, opening times, land maps and plans, veterinary care, security amongst others. A DEFRA officer, vet and environmental health officer came and did an inspection.


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## 337smile (Aug 20, 2009)

bampoisongirl said:


> Thanks very much, is it the same as PSL in that the cost of the licence varies from county to county? It's such a shame about the confusion over charities and sanctuaries.
> 
> Thanks, Jenn


Yes it varies. Many counties have never done one before and aren't sure how to deal with it. Good luck!


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

I have to be honest I have no idea of the costs, I imagine it does vary - but I can't imagine there are many applications for new zoos so councils don't tend to list the forms as standard.

This council website has a very good outline of what will happen if you want to apply for a ZL

Zoo Licence

As you can read from that it is quite a lot of inspections and hoops to jump through!


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## 337smile (Aug 20, 2009)

I remember the advert in the national paper was one of the most expensive parts!


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

337smile said:


> As above, you definitely need a zoo licence and public liability insurance too. I handled a zoo licence application for an animal park I was working on three years back. The difficulty of the application is dependant on how helpful your local council is.
> 
> From what I recall the application consisted of several sections including listing proposed animal species, how they will be cared for and housed, opening times, land maps and plans, veterinary care, security amongst others. A DEFRA officer, vet and environmental health officer came and did an inspection.


Well there is already quite a large zoo that is in the county so the council have dealt with it before, hopefully this will help things along a little. A lot of paperwork then lol



Athravan said:


> I have to be honest I have no idea of the costs, I imagine it does vary - but I can't imagine there are many applications for new zoos so councils don't tend to list the forms as standard.
> 
> This council website has a very good outline of what will happen if you want to apply for a ZL
> 
> ...


Righty ho, thanks again, I'll have a look at that website now


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Zoo licenses are in the £1000's. Thens there public liability insurance, risk assessments for the entire facility, fire assessments, food safety check if you want to sell food ie cafe and so on before you even hit the animal side of it. Then theres overheads, food costs, acquiring animals, vets, advertising and so on.

At the end of the day a zoo is a business, albeit a business involving animals. I wouldnt approach a project like this without 3 year business plans and my bank manager happy to lend be a few £1,000,000.

Really all the best with it and keep us informed.


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

you could start really small and kind of have a indoor aminmal zoo for reptiles small mammals ect and do breeding programs of rare wildlife ect and grow from there but then again i have no idea on these things


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## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

I think the criteria will be different for each area too, so it really will be worthwhile getting in touch with your council. I remember speaking to a guy who ran a bird of prey centre (within the grounds of Anne Hathaways cottage) who was told he needed a zoo licence to have the animals on the grounds (he was also in charge of the livestock which were a few sheep and some ducks) Not really an animal park of any kind. So he moved out of there to set up a centre where a ZL wasnt needed.


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Mujician said:


> I think the criteria will be different for each area too, so it really will be worthwhile getting in touch with your council. I remember speaking to a guy who ran a bird of prey centre (within the grounds of Anne Hathaways cottage) who was told he needed a zoo licence to have the animals on the grounds (he was also in charge of the livestock which were a few sheep and some ducks) Not really an animal park of any kind. So he moved out of there to set up a centre where a ZL wasnt needed.


If he intended for the centre was to be open for people to see the birds then it is a zoo in the eyes of the law. As Athravan said if you charge to enter the premises more than 7 days in a year you'd need a ZL.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

You could take over an existing operation, but certainly for an exotics zoo it's likely to be in the region of millions - buying land with acreage plus building or renovating a building for exotics is very costly. That's what would cost the most - and people don't tend to rent zoos!

Petting zoos are a LOT cheaper and you could still have a small building with some exotics in it, as then they tend to be on a farm and stables/fields are relatively cheap in comparison, again you will need to own the land most likely though.

If you intend to keep any DWA animals which is what tends to attract the most people then you will need added security, at least full perimiter security, electric fences, full cctv etc. which makes an exotics zoo a lot more costly again to setup, and to run, than something small like a petting zoo that's mostly farm animals and may have a small building that needs to be security protected but not acres of land.

The Animalarium in Borth ( 2 acres) for example Animalarium - Borth - Unusual and Exotic Animals was recently listed for sale at £850,000 and I think is still on the market (was last month anyway), but the turnover is low. I can only comment on the numbers of this business, which is in quite an awkward part of Wales, 



> Visitor numbers 25,000 per annum –for last four years, this year, 2009 is 27,000. Turnover £150,000 per annum, 2009 was £176,000. This year, 2010 looks good.


That's turnover, not stated as profit - how much of that is profit? And how long will it take to actually make a profit on an £850k investment? Most reptile shops depending on size have a turnover (not profit) of between £40 - £100k a year and are MUCH cheaper to set up and maintain. Very few zoos are run for profit at the end of the day, most of the large zoos are run by foundations and are charities too for conservation work.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Well, I'm awaiting a reply from the council to see what they have to say about it all, then I will have more details to go on. Started looking into more stuff today and mum is looking into properties, so we are just kinda starting on research first.


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## Mujician (Mar 7, 2007)

Whereabouts are you thinking of setting up?


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Mujician said:


> Whereabouts are you thinking of setting up?


I've replied to your PM, somewhere in Staffordshire depending on available plots/property x


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

My concern would be your margins. Starting from scratch, you'll not be earning a massive sum even before costs. Hopefully you have a good financial backer to help you through the first couple years.


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Robbie said:


> My concern would be your margins. Starting from scratch, you'll not be earning a massive sum even before costs. Hopefully you have a good financial backer to help you through the first couple years.


Echoing that is the fact you're looking at setting up with multiple people involved means any profit you get will become shared and therefore alot lower.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Zak said:


> Echoing that is the fact you're looking at setting up with multiple people involved means any profit you get will become shared and therefore alot lower.


Alot of start-up business owners don't take a salary the first year. They'll cover the costs of their living but re-invest everything else.
Animals cost alot. The number of animals one will have to cover feeding/housing/medical care for in a Zoo set-up would be staggering. I believe regular (let's say bi-monthly) health checks by a licensed Vet would be required. That'll cost a bit, no doubt. Perhaps you might even need to be home office registered. I am  I can't do your vet checks though, lol.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

A lot of there work where possible will be done by ourselves, and it will be family run with a few friends, it's all about getting it set up and running rather than taking a salary at first. I realise the amount of sacrifice and hard work that will have to go into this, but we are all willing as it is a shared dream.


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## xxstaggyxx (Oct 22, 2008)

I think it is great that you have this dream and i really do hope that it works out for you ill be happy to come along with the family even tho we are down south again good luck and if you ever need help soucing reptiles Mammals ect give me a shout


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

You could perhaps contact a University local to yourselves and ask if they have any interests in possibly helping with funding or conservation studies. Many Zoological gardens are in collaboration with Universities.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

xxstaggyxx said:


> I think it is great that you have this dream and i really do hope that it works out for you ill be happy to come along with the family even tho we are down south again good luck and if you ever need help soucing reptiles Mammals ect give me a shout


Thanks very much, I will keep you in mind 



Robbie said:


> You could perhaps contact a University local to yourselves and ask if they have any interests in possibly helping with funding or conservation studies. Many Zoological gardens are in collaboration with Universities.


Yeah I was thinking about contacting my university I've just completed my Zoo biology degree there (not that I know if I've even passed yet:bash


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

bampoisongirl said:


> I've replied to your PM, somewhere in Staffordshire depending on available plots/property x


i personally would just leave it as a dream if i was you...or do it somewhere else than stoke


we already have 3 small zoo's in or near staffordshire

finny gardens is one and its had over 100 animals stolen or burnt alive by thugs over the last 3 years 

next we have tropical palms
Palms Tropical Oasis - Days Out Kids, Things to do Children, Zoo, Animal Attraction, Cheshire, Stoke on Trent, Manchester
and yet they are having to give away free some of there animals due to loosing so much money from not enough visitors
Nantwich’s Palms Tropical Oasis to close as part of Stapeley Water Gardens resiting scheme - Crewe Chronicle

next we have gentleshaws which again struggles so much to stay open each year...they do so much fund-raising aswell to help keep it open and have to rehome alot of the animals ....they also have to do alot of other things like motobike drives,summer fairs,bird of prey courses and so on to get the money.....its a great place to visit but they struggle so much and most of the staff members work there free of charge 
Gentleshaw Wildlife Centre


on a final word you need to make sure you got a strong stomach if your doing it in stoke...i run a wildlife garden thats oepn to the public, however we have to fence the thing off and now arrange appointments for people to see it rather than leaving it open due to the vandles....last winter we had abunch of youths set 7 hedgehogs alit on fire killing them.....


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

wildlifewarrior said:


> i personally would just leave it as a dream if i was you...or do it somewhere else than stoke
> 
> 
> we already have 3 small zoo's in or near staffordshire
> ...


I've never heard of finny gardens I'll have to have a look, I realise security is going to be an issue, but there are idiots in every city. I know someone who works at Palms and he told me it was something to do with the land had been bought, nothing to do witht the visitor numbers. I came across Gentleshaws, but again, it's another bird one in Staffordshire. We don't want to focus on birds because there are at least 3 in Staffordshire that I know of. 

That's a real shame about your wildlife garden. But like I said, you are going to get people like this is every city. Obviously I appreciate your advice as I need all the help I can get, but I'm determined to start something.

EDIT just reading the links and it says they have sold the land because they were struggling, makes sense now...


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Not to mention the large and well established Rodbaston Visitors Centre Animal Zone : victory:. We have over a thousand animals, of over 200 species, five full time members of staff and an entire student body to help us look after it! I certainly wouldn't relish setting it up from stratch.




wildlifewarrior said:


> i personally would just leave it as a dream if i was you...or do it somewhere else than stoke
> 
> 
> we already have 3 small zoo's in or near staffordshire
> ...


 


Bampoison - what sort of experience do you have with things like enclosure design (from keeper, animal and visitor perspective), collection planning and business management as these are just a few of the things the zoo inspectors will want to know. Almost all the animal centres I know of started as one of three things:


a private rescue or private collection that grew so big that it was either impossible to maintain without charging people to come and see it, or was easy to convert for the public to access and so as a business model it made sense
a shop or existing business that added the animal attraction to an already existing business and/or extended to a point they could open an attraction (not always well from a zoo/professional point of view) - pm if you want details of where to go to see how not to do it!
A college funded by students as an educational facility that became large enough to be viable.
The main issue with starting from stratch is that to get an establishment that is big enough to be able to charge people to see it will cost literally millions. You may be able to bodge something together for a few hundred thousand, but it will take some skill to make that impressive enough to get people to go away happy and tell their friends (as word of mouth will be your number one marketing and advertisement tool). You can go with the 'rescue/sanctuary' title, which makes people pay more for less as they are helping the animals, but that only works if you _are_ a rescue. If you start using the money to expand the exhibits and get in bigger and 'better' animals rather than improving existing enclosures for the elderly, unhealthy and infirm rescue animals, questions may be asked.

If you are looking for a 'zoo' from the off, and from stratch, then you I would be looking at 3-4 million just to buy land, plan, design, and build the enclosures and landscape. It would also be very important that you had land for expansion so you can grow and develop. Then you have the insurances, licenses, inspections, H&S, COSHH, legislation etc. Then you need food and bedding, maintainance.



I really wish you all the luck in the world and hope your dream comes to fruition. I have seen many many of these sorts of establishments done very badly, to the expense of the animals, but I have also seen excellent ones, done very well too.

I reckon you first 'research' would be to visit every single establishment in the county and talk to as many owners and staff as possible.

Also, what are you collection plans and where are you planning on sourcing your animals (You will certainly need to gain BIAZA membership to be part of most zoo exchanges - but that's not a garantee in its own right (nor, admittly, always a requirement - but massive experience or influence is!)


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

bothrops said:


> Also, what are you collection plans and where are you planning on sourcing your animals (You will certainly need to gain BIAZA membership to be part of most zoo exchanges - but that's not a garantee in its own right (nor, admittly, always a requirement - but massive experience or influence is!)


Quick note with Biaza membership, as far as i know they now only accept establishments signed up to ISIS for ARKS (animal record keeping system) which is another few £1000's and you'd need to have someone experienced to use it.

Might be worth contacing the Rare Species Conservation Centre down in Sandwich, he set up the zoo nearly from scratch and will give you some idea of what money is needed for a small modern zoo.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

bampoisongirl said:


> I've never heard of finny gardens I'll have to have a look, I realise security is going to be an issue, but there are idiots in every city. I know someone who works at Palms and he told me it was something to do with the land had been bought, nothing to do witht the visitor numbers. I came across Gentleshaws, but again, it's another bird one in Staffordshire. We don't want to focus on birds because there are at least 3 in Staffordshire that I know of.
> 
> That's a real shame about your wildlife garden. But like I said, you are going to get people like this is every city. Obviously I appreciate your advice as I need all the help I can get, but I'm determined to start something.
> 
> EDIT just reading the links and it says they have sold the land because they were struggling, makes sense now...


Have you ever been to gentleshaws? birds? you mean all 20 of them? what about the

50+ reptiles
8 big cats
18 primates
and 30+ other large and exotic mammals they house there....

as stated the palms had a massive lack of visitors....i also disagree with the statement about people like this in every city,so improved security will help...if you have ever been to the heron cross wildlife garden you will see theres a 8ft iron spiked fence around it thats stuck into solid concrete...this is then in a allotoment site thats got its own security funded by stoke-on-trent city council.

and yet we still get thugs coming in and ruining it.....its well knwon stoke is a bad place.....it was one of the reasons we set up the wildlife garden to try and change young peoples views on nature and to help respect it. its a war thats going to take a life time to win....however the wildlife garden is a FREE place for people to enjoy nature.....yours will be a bussiness and one that i wouldnt go into lightly in stoke.

as bothrops has also high-lighted its something thats not an easy task either.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Christian, set a few dogs on them. See how they respect a Cane Corsos' nature.
The last group of lads to vandalise one of my step-dads constructions got chased with the Alsations. I prefer something with stronger jaws, alas, the Corso.


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## wildlifewarrior (Jun 26, 2008)

Robbie said:


> Christian, set a few dogs on them. See how they respect a Cane Corsos' nature.
> The last group of lads to vandalise one of my step-dads constructions got chased with the Alsations. I prefer something with stronger jaws, alas, the Corso.


you have ovbiously not met my dog katie then yet :whistling2:


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

wildlifewarrior said:


> you have ovbiously not met my dog katie then yet :whistling2:


Indeed not.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

bothrops said:


> Not to mention the large and well established Rodbaston Visitors Centre Animal Zone : victory:. We have over a thousand animals, of over 200 species, five full time members of staff and an entire student body to help us look after it! I certainly wouldn't relish setting it up from stratch.
> 
> I've never even heard of the Rodbaston one! Only knew there was a college there. You need to advertise more :Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> ...


My mum and her partner want a marine collection, and I assume they were just planning on getting them from marine stores, and perhaps breeding their own in the future. I was planning on reptile and exotic mammal side of things, getting animals from private breeders etc. Yes that's another thing I have got to to, contact BIAZA and find out how the hell I can become a member. Thanks for your feedback, it's been really helpful. Like I said, we need all the feedback we can get, positive or negative, so we can overcome problems before they arise!



Zak said:


> Quick note with Biaza membership, as far as i know they now only accept establishments signed up to ISIS for ARKS (animal record keeping system) which is another few £1000's and you'd need to have someone experienced to use it.
> 
> Right ok, again, a problem I will have to contact my lecturer with
> 
> Might be worth contacing the Rare Species Conservation Centre down in Sandwich, he set up the zoo nearly from scratch and will give you some idea of what money is needed for a small modern zoo.


Brilliant! Thank you



wildlifewarrior said:


> Have you ever been to gentleshaws? birds? you mean all 20 of them? what about the
> 
> 50+ reptiles
> 8 big cats
> ...


I don't expect an easy task, of course it won't be, and pleas don't think that I aren't taking all of this on board, I have written everything down that everyone has said and I will be taking it all to mum and her partner to discuss if she still wants to go ahead and attempt this mammoth task.

Again, any help is appreciated! Cheers guys x


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## andy140365 (Jul 26, 2010)

bampoisongirl said:


> Thanks very much, is it the same as PSL in that the cost of the licence varies from county to county? It's such a shame about the confusion over charities and sanctuaries.
> 
> Thanks, Jenn


you cant do anything in this country now :devil: we wanted to open a doggy daycare along side our dog grooming business the amount of crap the council put in the way !!!! unbelievable we just do the daycare now ,think its just a way to create jobs for more councilors to sit on there lazy asses and drive there company cars makes my blood boil all the best on your zoo my hat comes off to you would love to visit as and when you open :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## andy140365 (Jul 26, 2010)

*zoo for sale*

theres one for sale in borth right by the sea been there a few times maybe that may /could be a starting point its advertised in the reptile mag


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

andy140365 said:


> you cant do anything in this country now :devil: just sit onthe dole and join the rest of the scroungers we wanted to open a doggy daycare along side our dog grooming business the amount of crap the council put in the way !!!! unbelievable we just do the daycare now ,think its just a way to create jobs for more councilors to sit on there lazy asses and drive there company cars makes my blood boil all the best on your zoo my hat comes off to you would love to visit as and when you open :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:





andy140365 said:


> theres one for sale in borth right by the sea been there a few times maybe that may /could be a starting point its advertised in the reptile mag


Please don't tarr everyone on the dole with the same brush, I am on the dole through no choice of my own, I am finding it very difficult to find a job, hopefully we can get this up and running though. The one you are talking about is the one Athravan mentioned that is up for sale at £850,000. We wouldn't want to move too far away anyway x


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## andy140365 (Jul 26, 2010)

bampoisongirl said:


> Please don't tarr everyone on the dole with the same brush, I am on the dole through no choice of my own, I am finding it very difficult to find a job, hopefully we can get this up and running though. The one you are talking about is the one Athravan mentioned that is up for sale at £850,000. We wouldn't want to move too far away anyway x


i did nt mean to upset it was just a metafore of why bother trying to get on in life you get no help just obsticles put in the way(been self employed few years now really tough at times but keep focused ),other hand stay at home get everything paid for the worlds well the uks gone mad, instead of people being 100% behind what your trying to do creating jobs etc. its just an opinion and a general view and you tend to find that the genuine unemployed such as yourself soon find work and i hope you do soon but the ones who know the ropes milk the country for everything they can get 18 kids the one family there choice but no way of paying or providing for one child so they have another 17 bingo its like a lottery win but people cant see it 
million appoligies if i offended im only an egg :blush:would love to have many years and make lots of like minded friends on here forums are forums though 
my wife as only just stopped dreaming of owning the zoo at borth we have a small zoo in our semi lol neighbours love us NOT


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

andy140365 said:


> i did nt mean to upset it was just a metafore of why bother trying to get on in life you get no help just obsticles put in the way(been self employed few years now really tough at times but keep focused ),other hand stay at home get everything paid for the worlds well the uks gone mad, instead of people being 100% behind what your trying to do creating jobs etc. its just an opinion and a general view and you tend to find that the genuine unemployed such as yourself soon find work and i hope you do soon but the ones who know the ropes milk the country for everything they can get 18 kids the one family there choice but no way of paying or providing for one child so they have another 17 bingo its like a lottery win but people cant see it
> million appoligies if i offended im only an egg :blush:would love to have many years and make lots of like minded friends on here forums are forums though
> my wife as only just stopped dreaming of owning the zoo at borth we have a small zoo in our semi lol neighbours love us NOT


It's ok I know what you mean, Mum currently works for social services and unfortunately has to work with these people everyday. She hates her job. When we were talking about the park the other day she said 'I hate my job. I don't want to work with people anymore, people get enough help. I definately want to work with animals now!' I'm very lucky to have such an awesome mum :lol2:


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## wolverine2031 (Sep 1, 2010)

*good luck and all the best..*

I really wish you all the best in the shared dream.

I had a dream of opening a animal sanctuary for reptiles, small furries and aquatics. There was so much legislation involved and uncooperative council people that I gave up in the end.

I will now save that dream until I retire and then spend my time helping out at other sanctuaries and rescue an occasional animal or creature myself along the way and see what happens


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *bothrops*  
_Not to mention the large and well established Rodbaston Visitors Centre Animal Zone : victory:. We have over a thousand animals, of over 200 species, five full time members of staff and an entire student body to help us look after it! I certainly wouldn't relish setting it up from stratch._

_I've never even heard of the Rodbaston one! Only knew there was a college there. You need to advertise more :Na_Na_Na_Na: _*Too bloody right!...I'll have a worrd with marketing! (mind you, they don't come down and tell me how to teach so I probably won't!)*

_Bampoison - what sort of experience do you have with things like enclosure design (from keeper, animal and visitor perspective), collection planning and business management as these are just a few of the things the zoo inspectors will want to know._

_I did enclosure design as part of my university course, but of course it's one thing on paper and another in reality. I don't have any experience of collection planning or business management. I couldn't tell you if any of my other family members have business management experience. Like I said we need all the help we can get._

*Collection planning will be one of your main priorities. i.e. - what is the ethics, vision and mission statement of your animal collection. You will need to justify your collection in terms of education, research and conservation for your Zoo license application and I would advice you have clear collection plans before even looking for a suitable property (as the plan will dictate the land/property requirements!)*


_Almost all the animal centres I know of started as one of three things:

a private rescue or private collection that grew so big that it was either impossible to maintain without charging people to come and see it, or was easy to convert for the public to access and so as a business model it made sense
a shop or existing business that added the animal attraction to an already existing business and/or extended to a point they could open an attraction (not always well from a zoo/professional point of view) - pm if you want details of where to go to see how not to do it!
A college funded by students as an educational facility that became large enough to be viable.
The main issue with starting from stratch is that to get an establishment that is big enough to be able to charge people to see it will cost literally millions. You may be able to bodge something together for a few hundred thousand, but it will take some skill to make that impressive enough to get people to go away happy and tell their friends (as word of mouth will be your number one marketing and advertisement tool). You can go with the 'rescue/sanctuary' title, which makes people pay more for less as they are helping the animals, but that only works if you are a rescue. If you start using the money to expand the exhibits and get in bigger and 'better' animals rather than improving existing enclosures for the elderly, unhealthy and infirm rescue animals, questions may be asked._

_Well we aren't intending on starting up a chester zoo sized place, because of course that would cost millions to start up. Trust me we would never open something that we all weren't completely proud of. We will be doing all our own work where possible (my mums partner is particularly skilled, plus we know electricians, plumbers, joiners, plasterers, you name it, we'll have a friend who does it :lol2 I aren't really sure what angle to go for. Of course I would love to rescue animals, and I would also love to help with captive breeding for reintroduction, again, I have no idea how to go about this and I'm going to contact my uni tutor for advice I think._

_If you are looking for a 'zoo' from the off, and from stratch, then you I would be looking at 3-4 million just to buy land, plan, design, and build the enclosures and landscape. It would also be very important that you had land for expansion so you can grow and develop. Then you have the insurances, licenses, inspections, H&S, COSHH, legislation etc. Then you need food and bedding, maintainance._

_I really wish you all the luck in the world and hope your dream comes to fruition. I have seen many many of these sorts of establishments done very badly, to the expense of the animals, but I have also seen excellent ones, done very well too._

_I reckon you first 'research' would be to visit every single establishment in the county and talk to as many owners and staff as possible._

_It's now on my to do list!_

_Also, what are you collection plans and where are you planning on sourcing your animals (You will certainly need to gain BIAZA membership to be part of most zoo exchanges - but that's not a garantee in its own right (nor, admittly, always a requirement - but massive experience or influence is!)_

My mum and her partner want a marine collection, and I assume they were just planning on getting them from marine stores, and perhaps breeding their own in the future. I was planning on reptile and exotic mammal side of things, getting animals from private breeders etc. Yes that's another thing I have got to to, contact BIAZA and find out how the hell I can become a member. Thanks for your feedback, it's been really helpful. Like I said, we need all the feedback we can get, positive or negative, so we can overcome problems before they arise!


*Your main obstacle in all of this is getting big enough to warrant people paying cash to get in, without a huge initial investment. In order to charge £3-4 entry, you'll need at least a hour or two of entertainment. This equates to at least 30-40 exhibits. Any less and they could get the same for free at the local pet shop.*


*I think you may have grossly underestimated the set-up costs as you have mentioned 'don't want a Chester Zoo' that would cost millions, yet I would estimate that even a minor attraction would be millions to set up from stratch when you take into account all the land,property, building materials, landscaping, power, legislation, staffing, etc etc. A place like Chester would be hundreds of millions (The budget for the 'Realm of the Red Ape' alone was £3.375 Million, even the small 'Islands in Peril' exhibit was £620,000) Coming down to more like the scale you are thinking of and the recent Callithrichidae exhibits (three enclosures housing three pairs plus offspring) came to almost £200K...of course that doesn't include Zoo license, food, land, power etc....*

*I appreciate that the above are 'top of the range' premium examples and your plans are much more modest, but to look at the example of Borth, £850,000 is peanuts compared to building from scratch. A simple shed, run and primate proof aviary will be £10-15K by the time you've put everything in and that's just one exhibit!*
​I don't expect an easy task, of course it won't be, and pleas don't think that I aren't taking all of this on board, I have written everything down that everyone has said and I will be taking it all to mum and her partner to discuss if she still wants to go ahead and attempt this mammoth task.

Again, any help is appreciated! Cheers guys x

*I truely wish you all the best. You're right that it is a mammoth task and I may seem that I am being negative, but I'm hopefully either giving you a reality check, or (even better?) giving you a proper 'I'll show them' attitude!*

*I have massive respect for your ambition and its awesome that you are clearly planning, planning and planning again. Lets hope you can get the theorectical books to balance.*


*Keep us posted*




(for reference, if I was to consider doing what you are (bearing in mind I lecture on an Zoo Animal Management degree and work with a number of exceptional experts in the feild of animal management (and therefore have a number of 'contacts')) I would not even start without access to at least 2-4 acres of land (with a house) morgage/rent free and £500K cash (plus assets to raise more))


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

bothrops said:


> Quote:
> 
> _I've never even heard of the Rodbaston one! Only knew there was a college there. You need to advertise more :Na_Na_Na_Na: _*Too bloody right!...I'll have a worrd with marketing! (mind you, they don't come down and tell me how to teach so I probably won't!)*
> 
> ...




Thanks very much for that, we were looking at properties already with buildings on them and land as a starting point, I will keep this in mind  Thanks again for your help!


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

Bear in mind that the RSCC in Kent was setup by a millionaire who already had a large pre-existing collection which formed the bulk of the zoo collection. They're also now closing to the public, relocating a large proportion of their species to other zoos in the UK and focusing on carnivores and nocturnal prosimians. Operating only for open days and as a private collection.

So even as an established millionaire, with many zoo and business contacts, with a large existing collection of rare and intriguing animals... it's not always enough.

Take a look on Zoochat


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## Zak (Jan 7, 2008)

Saedcantas said:


> Bear in mind that the RSCC in Kent was setup by a millionaire who already had a large pre-existing collection which formed the bulk of the zoo collection. They're also now closing to the public, relocating a large proportion of their species to other zoos in the UK and focusing on carnivores and nocturnal prosimians. Operating only for open days and as a private collection.
> 
> So even as an established millionaire, with many zoo and business contacts, with a large existing collection of rare and intriguing animals... it's not always enough.
> 
> Take a look on Zoochat


Im kind of glad i didnt end up working there haha. 

But yes that guy runs RSCC owns edible.com, the company who supply Selfridges etc with the chocolate coated ants and so on. This man is not short of money but stuggled to get RSCC to be a profitable venture. It basically turned into his private collection that public could see but as Saedcantas said that is obviously changing.


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## andy140365 (Jul 26, 2010)

did you get any futher with this any updates :2thumb:


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