# Last bit of help before.....



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

.....she has to go 


Reet, Wilo the NI from hell is pushing me too far and it's getting to the stage where she has to go or i end up living in a hell hole.

She's managed to stop pooing in the house during the night but is back to doing it while i'm at work and moved from the kitchen to the lounge.. The house stinks when i get home and i'm not prepared to live in a stinking house and a sofa full of holes.

How long can you leave a dog in a cage before it becomes in humane?

is there anybody in the North West who would be prepared to 'borrow' her and try and sort her out?

Would it be cruel to empty the shed and leave them both (not fair to leave one in and one out) in the garden with the shed as a kennel?

Should i just empty the spare bedroom and give them that and the run of the stairs and hall?




i'm getting home from work and she's throwing everything about, cushions all over the place, poo on the floor, anything she can get hold of on the lounge floor. Yesterday i left a towel on the floor for her to play with, but no. that was still there and everything else all over the place.

I don't want to lock them in the kitchen as there's too much in there to get pulled off and trashed.
I'm pretty much at the stage where i'm getting home, physically throwing her out of the house into the garden, cleaning up and throwing her in her cage and going out myself so i calm down or i'll end up cracking her one.. or two.. She's really pushing my patience.
She knows she's doing wrong as she goes down on the floor looking sad. If i'm in at the weekends i can just lie on the sofa all day and because i'm there she's fine. i don't even have to play with her just sitting there is good enough.

She's a beautiful loving dog but i don't even want to go home after work for what might be waiting for me but it can't carry on. If i can't sort her out soon she'll have to go so i need help!!!


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

sorry, what kind of dog is it? :blush:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

NI - Northern Inuit


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Meko said:


> NI - Northern Inuit


 
Ah, thanks.

I wouldn't have a problem putting 2 dogs into an outside enclosure, but perhaps not a shed. You cant have it wrecking the house can you. 

Do you have it out a lot of the day?


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

I do feel for you. My collie is hard work. its like "you can take the dog from the farm but you cant take the farm out of it". he was a working strain going back generations, and we shouldnt have taken him, but my OH at the time fell in love because he could play football very well lol.

Our house got trashed, the crapping on the floor was a daily thing too, as was chewing holes in my quilt (yuk). We ended up putting locks on the doors to confine him to the hall and spare room (a bit like what you are planning)

anyway, that didnt work either. he then chewed a hole in the stairs (bare wood) and chewed a skirting board off. (had an obsession with sunlight, and anything it hit was fair game). 

Outside he was no better. the herding instinct in him makes him chase cars, and he makes it his business to know when all my neighbours are coming and going, by barking. the barking is constant. He might end up with an ASBO yet. If he is not barking, he is at the window, watching everyone going about their business,

He started to behave when he was spayed, but it took a while. Now he goes out three times a day, into a field, and is instructed to "get the rabbits" which he will spend all day doing. Every day or so he goes for a longer trek in the woods. 

He simply has too much energy and is bored.


Crapping on the floor is like the biggest "up yours" a dog can give you, to let you know they are hacked off and fed up. they know how much it annoys. It is not that they cant control it.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

thats what i'm thinking with the crapping on the floor. she used to crap in the hall so i shut the door and she was ok but then the odd occasion in the kitchen which i could cope with but now she's gone to the door to the hall as though to say 'if i can't get out i'll do it as near as possible as i can'.

she's got Rio to play with all day and is fine with him while i'm there. As much as i don't want to its getting to the stage of having a house i'm ashamed of or losing her..


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

she doesn't get chance to get out much during the day as the job i've had to take literally take the piss and don't understand people have lives outside of work - such as yesterday arranging a meeting 40 miles from home. Meeting from 3pm to 5pm, the boss set off late to it and didn't get there till late and there was no way it would fit into the 2 hours he scheduled. 

yes i am looking for another closer to home but its the destructiveness i can't be dealing with..


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Meko said:


> thats what i'm thinking with the crapping on the floor. she used to crap in the hall so i shut the door and she was ok but then the odd occasion in the kitchen which i could cope with but now she's gone to the door to the hall as though to say 'if i can't get out i'll do it as near as possible as i can'.
> 
> she's got Rio to play with all day and is fine with him while i'm there. As much as i don't want to its getting to the stage of having a house i'm ashamed of or losing her..


 
I am considering approaching a local farmer and asking him if he will let my one run around with him through the day when i go back to work. if it makes him happy, I might let him go. but i dont want to do it.

I do feel for ya, it is hard to admit that you cant do enough, but im in the same situation, and with a baby on the way, something has got to give soon


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

yep.. as much as you love them you have to do what's best for yourself as well as them.


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Meko said:


> yep.. as much as you love them you have to do what's best for yourself as well as them.


 
Yeah. I thought i would be back to square one with Ben when my OH left, but he seems to have forgotten about him quickly. Dont get me wrong, he pined for him for a week or so, but after that? Paul who? lol. best forgotten about anyway. but it gave me hope that a rehome would be good for him, as he can get over losing paul, he will forget about me soon enough.

Admitting you cant cope is very honourable. but continuing to live in misery (both you and your dog) will never have a happy ending for either of you.

I wish you luck. if you do decide to rehome, at least you have a chance of picking the right place for him to go, now you know what he needs. 

Best of luck, whatever you decide : victory:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

picking the right place.. lol.. last night i didn't care where she went. I had to go back out to stop me throwing her out onto the streets.

I don't want to resort to the tactics some people do and demand respect from her, giving her a crack, rubbing her nose in it etc etc and i don't want to see her go.. i just want her to behave.. she's 2 in 5 days, surely she should have got the pain in the arse puppy tricks out of her system by now??

If she knows she's done wrong why do it!! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Can you not find a local dog training school to do some work with her?

Her destructiveness may be due to boredom Iwould imagine as NI's are very intelligent dogs who require lots of stiulation.

Can you maybe give her a good hour or so walk of an evening?

If it helps, I would be happy to help out and give you a break for the weekend or something if you can get her to me  Am not too far on Wirral.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i paid just over £300 for a trainer for them both and he gave me a bucket load of advice and lifetime support but i can't see how he can help when i'm not there.

i did all the reading up on them before buying her and the exercise was 'average' rather than high for the likes of huskies and malamutes which seemed fine. I try to take her out late at night for a big walk but also trying to train them to walk nicely and not pull my arms out of the sockets at the same time.. 

She shouldn't be bored as Rio will harrass her to play a lot of the time, maybe the cushions is them jumping on the sofa and kicking them off rather than ragging them apart (except for the ones she's ripped apart). If i'm in at the weekends she'll chill out on the floor.. even thought about getitng a shop dummy and sitting it on the sofa to confuse her into thinking there's somebody there.

The towel annoyed me though.. here, have a towel to play with and rip apart instead of the cushions... but no, that was exactly where i left it.


thanks for the offer, unfortunately as i'm that angry with her when i get home from work the weekends are the only time i get to appriciate how loving she is


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

WEll the offer is there - even through the week if you need a break badly - I am home all day every day and have a hugeeee park and playing fields right near me and also on our school run of a morning 

I don't feel it would be cruel to have her outdoors while you are working - provided she has access to a dry, warm shelter and fresh water and food, there is no harm in that at all.

i sincerely hope you manage to work through it with her as it would be such a shame to let her go after the hard work and love you have obviously put into her


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

She is likely destroying things because she isn't getting enough mental stimulation and nowhere near enough excercise, I had a Husky for 6 weeks, she went back to the breeder and is now with a family who can cater for her needs, I take my dobe out in the morning for a run before work, one when I get home of a night and then usually one before I go to bed of a night, even with 2 usually three good long runs and sometimes extra during the day the husky was a nightmare, she wouldn't settle, destroyed things and would crap everywhere as if it was something fun to do, I spent a fortune on toys and things to keep her occupied but it didn't work, in the end I to admit defeat and she is now on a working farm and I have been to see her twice and she is a totally different dog.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Cheers Brittone..

Young Gun.. i kinda admit its the mental stimulation but it just confuses me that at weekends and when i'm in she'll lie in her cage or sleep on the floor.. 
its only when i'm not there that she goes scatty.


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## daisyleo (Nov 23, 2006)

How long are you actually leaving her each day?
To me it sounds like seperation anxiety, and this isn't something that will be fixed over night.
I would of thought the trainer would of picked up on that more than anything else.
She is obviously lacking 'who's boss' because you said she doesn't walk nice on the lead too? 
I don't agree at all with 'giving her a crack' that never helps a situation you will make her defensive and probably even push her back even further and cause her to wet more around the house when frightened.
She needs some fun, you leave her all week each day, then week ends you just sit round the house?? what about some 'doggy fun' take her to training classes that are more about fun than having to do as she is told, I agree she is very bright and needs more stimulation that you are giving her.
Is she spayed? 
Your staffy is probably like my two and all the other staffies I have ever known fat and lazy, doesn't want to do much, unfortunately not all dogs are like that and some different breeds need far more brain work to keep them calm


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## kellysanger (Oct 17, 2007)

can you arrange for her to come down to me??


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## kellysanger (Oct 17, 2007)

her anxiety probably stems from your anger, i wish you were closer so i could come visit a few times. im sure shes responding to your anger- she knows when you come home youll be angry, that makes her more anxious when you go out and so shes more distructive... its a cycle.... watch the dog whisperer on sky 3... great programme... other than that send her down... ill do a free independent assessment an dgive you a detailed report on how to stimulate her and stop this behaviour..


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

daisyleo said:


> How long are you actually leaving her each day?
> To me it sounds like seperation anxiety, and this isn't something that will be fixed over night.
> I would of thought the trainer would of picked up on that more than anything else.
> She is obviously lacking 'who's boss' because you said she doesn't walk nice on the lead too?
> ...


 
its the usual working hours but i get shit sprung on me like 'just nip over here' at silly times.
Yesterday in the meeting that should have finished at 5 the boss said i'd set something going before i left, this was already past 6pm. needless to say i didn't do it.

i don't just sit around at the weekends, it was an example that if i do she will just lie down and chill out.

she's calming down on the lead and picking up the training, although i'm getting dizzy walking round in circles whenever she starts to overtake me.

i might get her a muzzle and take her to a field and let her run around like a loon and hope she comes back.. muzzle is just in case..

not spayed yet, can have her done in about a month.




kellysanger said:


> can you arrange for her to come down to me??


 
cheers kelly, you've offered before but its a bit of a trek i'd love to though.


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## kellysanger (Oct 17, 2007)

well the offer is here.. ill have her for as long as needed.... you'll get her back though - i dont want two dogs!!


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

haha, where is it you live again?


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

You have 2 problems here 1)Lack of exercise and mental stimulation 2) Separation anxiety.

The dog is all happy and chilled at the weekend because the pack has the boss home so any problems big boss will deal with them and we don't have to stress.

Dogs don't think like we do they don't crap to upset us or do it somewhere to push our buttons they do it because they're scared or unable to access a more acceptable area to go.

Separation anxiety can be dealt with effectively by showing the dogs its ok to be alone and that the boss comes back at some point. Admittedly they prefer routine but in todays lifestyles that isn't always possible. Start by just shutting a door on the dog whilst you go to another room to see what sort of reaction you get. Go back when they've settled down ignore the mess and praise them for being quiet and calm. As time goes on you can extend this period of separation to help them realise they're fine without you.

A cage is fine its their bed most people would tell you that no more than 4 hrs is acceptable for a dog to be caged. Great if you can get home from work at lunch time to let the dog out for toilet etc but not if the reality of your life is such that work is too far away or not enough time to let them out etc. A good walk and run first thing in the morning before work and again after should help with the lack of exercise and mental stimulation if you incorporate some training before they get to free run. Also another good thing to give them for day time mental health is a kong or a cube both can be filled with food items which will take hrs of work on the dogs part to get at. I used to use part of their dinner in either for my GSD's if I knew I'd got a long day at work or a show.

Finally try a DAP in the room that you intend keeping the dog/s in and some brewers yeast in with their food as both are great for helping them to cope with stress. WE use both for the show dogs when they're first starting to be shown with great results. Might not be a bad idea for you to take the brewers yeast too for stress relief so that you're not anxious when you get home wondering what you're going to find when you open the door.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Meko 

I have pm'd you hun 

will try help you out on this 

How right is the snow dogs film hey :lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Dont worry if i dont reply straight away i have to go pick my lil un from school will be back for 4 pm


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

cheers Schip and Emma.

tonight i'm going to a - try and find her a big field to go for a run about in and b - empty everything out of the spare room. 

I don't have a sofa in there that's still being paid for, or anything she can dismantle. i can start shutting her in there for a while at a time, put her bed in, toys and the football some kid kicked over into my garden last night.. During the day if she has the run of that room, the landing, stairs and hall there's nothing of any value she can damage..


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Well give me a call hun 

and by the way i will tell you now what willow is doinf is perfectly normal for her breed :whip:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

its normal to send me old before my time?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Yips lol 

i will explain all that when we talk and you may understand more then :lol2:

But dont think its something your doing wrong it isnt all sled bred dogs will do this if given the chance trust me i know :lol2:

But one thing i will ask is she a true inuit ?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

yep..

Mahlek 'wilo the wisp' at sansorella. Got her NI pedigree papers at home.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

like i said in my PM to you wilow if she is an Inuit is 3 dogs rolled into one 

you have siberian husky and german shepherd which are highly intelligent and alaskan malamute that lets just say they are all braun and no brains lol 

so if you think about them 3 breeds seperately and what a nightmare they can be just imagine them all rolled into 1 and you have wilow :lol2:


thats the easiest way to explaine it i could think of :lol2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

isn't it 4? wasn't it a canadian inuit mixed with the others or am i imagining that part?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

gawd lol there are many different mixes with the inuit the most common being what i said lol 

but yes there is that mix too 

but they mixed the breeds to bring in qualitied from each of the different breeds of dogs 

to make faster, stronger dogs


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## The Fool (Aug 23, 2007)

Do you have a biggish garden?
I got to page 3 or so (as usual hehe) and then stopped, so if anyone has suggested this them apologies. 

Could you lay some concrete down, erect a shed as a kennel with bedding etc, and fence her in so she has a reasonable area and shelter? 

You could then place things to offer her mental stimulation, like bones full of meat/treats (where the marrow would be in a living bone) so that she has things to do/play with. 

Dont know what you make of that, but it'd mean she isnt indoors all day alone.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

The garden isn't huge and converting the shed into a big kennel for the pair of them was one of my thoughts.

A lot of what she's doing isn't too bad but i don't want to keep buying sofas when she ruins them.. and cushions.

I've just spent the last 3 hours clearing out the spare room for them both. If she poo's in the hall then she poos in the hall. I can deal with one problem at a time.

I came home today and played with her rather than getting annoyed. It wasn't too hard really as i was thinking about it on the way home.

Tonight i'll sleep in a t-shirt and throw it in the room for them, see if that works!

Also remembered, cos i'm a bit thick like that. My dad has a house with stables and paddocks... so he's getting a text tomorrow...


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Meko said:


> The garden isn't huge and converting the shed into a big kennel for the pair of them was one of my thoughts.
> 
> A lot of what she's doing isn't too bad but i don't want to keep buying sofas when she ruins them.. and cushions.
> 
> ...


 
its great that you are persevering. hopfully the dogs appreciate it!! good luck : victory:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i doubt it, all they enjoy is jumping on me when i'm asleep...


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

This is one of the problems with all spitz type breeds their intelligence, endurance and of course energy levels.

In the past I've bred and obedience trained GSD's which I thought were a fantastic breed but as I became more disabled I had to downsize. NOthing prepared me for my first SCHIPPERKE another nordic breed standing maximum 13 inches to the shoulder for a male!

You'd think after 20 yrs training dogs to work security and obedience showing I'd have these little guys working no problems ---------- I WENT WHITE skipped grey all together, within a wk of my first one!

12 yrs later I'm getting a handle on their unique qualities and brain capacity but most of all have learned to relax and see the funny side of their mischief. Although I have to admit at the min I'm dying as I've got 8 here ranging from 12 mths - 16 yrs as my friend is away on holiday for 13 wks. Not a problem until the 2 youngest bitches decide to have their first season, their father, brother and uncle have all destroyed a cage door each trying to get at them to 'service' them grrrr.

So welcome to the world of the high intelligence, high energy, high endurance clowns of the Spitz breeds.


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## annewynne (Jan 5, 2008)

i know where your coming from there(schip) we have 3 pomeranians also from the spitz breed,boy for a little dog they are little devils,i have just found this if its any interest to anyone.Spitz Breeds of the World


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

funny you say that anne, i was about to mention a friends Pom.. he's a little horror.. He''s called Bentley but nicknames include
foxy - tries to 'foxy' everybody by pretending to kiss them but gives them a nip.
Furry terrorist - self explanitary
ASBO - cos he deserves one.


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## annewynne (Jan 5, 2008)

Meko said:


> funny you say that anne, i was about to mention a friends Pom.. he's a little horror.. He''s called Bentley but nicknames include
> foxy - tries to 'foxy' everybody by pretending to kiss them but gives them a nip.
> Furry terrorist - self explanitary
> ASBO - cos he deserves one.


 
lol,we have 2 females and 1 male(aged 3months,1yr and 11months) they are good guard dogs,too good actually (liquid nails spring to mind) boy can they bark,tried everything,a quick squirt of water,we even have them sleep in our bedroom,or they would wake the neighbours up.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Bentley gets thrown outside when he won't stop yapping but he yaps out there and none stop scratching on the patio door..


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

well todays update... 


i found out she can open doors! luckily she did what i wanted and there was only one cushion on the floor so they enjoyed having more room to run around..

B&Q for a lock for the lounge door i think! it was a surprise to say the least when i got home to find them both at the back door waiting for me when i got home.

thanks for the replies people, i'm starting to understand her more now and that she's just not doing it to annoy me so i'm starting to appriciate that its in her genetic make up to be a complete arse... lol


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## skimpy (Nov 22, 2006)

Meko said:


> well todays update...
> 
> 
> i found out she can open doors! luckily she did what i wanted and there was only one cushion on the floor so they enjoyed having more room to run around..
> ...


 

:lol2: collies can open doors too!!! one day i can home to a wide open front door, looked up the stairs ( we are an upstairs flat) and all i could see was mud up the stairs, on the walls, and two white dots at the top. it was ben, he had let himself out, and gone for a run in the pony field out the back. thankfully the owners werent the ones who spotted him lol

we got those bar locks, so we can lock all doors from the outside wehn leaving for the day.

You could also turn the door handles upsides down...bloody hard to get the hang of, but after a week or so its easy lol


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

funny you say that, i was thinking of turning the handles upside down.. or just leaving the front door open and letting them run around town for the day.. lol


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## Schip (Mar 31, 2007)

See I've got my daughters ex show pom here too who will be lucky to make it to 11 at the rate he's going believe me!

His name??? DAMIEN no that's offical his kennel name is Chrsolyte son of a Devil at Sueacres pet name Damien and man does that fit! He bosses' EVERYONE about whilst all my old GSD obedience friends wet themselves laughing at such a bossy little dog - they just don't get its in the breed demanding and bossy.


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## annewynne (Jan 5, 2008)

so its not just my poms lol,i have to say the male is really good compared to the females,the 11 month old female is a she devil,my son and daughter are always complaining about (them stupid dogs,there so annoying) the male would be happy to sit on your knee all day,the 11 month old female is like a fly on a bit of string,the 3 month old pup,well god help us with them as teachers.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Just turn the door handles upsaide down :lol2:

They are great at opening cupboards and draws too so baware of them also lol


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

reckon it'd be worth ordering a couple of these for when i let them off the lead?

they're only cheap and they said they'll do me 2 (of the right sizes) for £4 delivered.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

of what ? lol

well im 2 walks done got 1 more to go having a coffee and a 5 min rest lol


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Schip said:


> See I've got my daughters ex show pom here too who will be lucky to make it to 11 at the rate he's going believe me!
> 
> His name??? DAMIEN no that's offical his kennel name is Chrsolyte son of a Devil at Sueacres pet name Damien and man does that fit! He bosses' EVERYONE about whilst all my old GSD obedience friends wet themselves laughing at such a bossy little dog - they just don't get its in the breed demanding and bossy.


 
LOL my 15 wk old pup Keona is starting to make me think i named her wrong should of called her Lucian hee hee she is definately gonna be the top bitch over the other lot when she is bigger :lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Schip said:


> See I've got my daughters ex show pom here too who will be lucky to make it to 11 at the rate he's going believe me!
> 
> His name??? DAMIEN no that's offical his kennel name is Chrsolyte son of a Devil at Sueacres pet name Damien and man does that fit! He bosses' EVERYONE about whilst all my old GSD obedience friends wet themselves laughing at such a bossy little dog - they just don't get its in the breed demanding and bossy.


 
LOL my 15 wk old pup is making me think i should have named her Lucian instead of keona lol she is deffo gonna be top bitch over the others when she is big enough LOL:lol2:

Ok sorry for double post my comp is playing peeka boo with posts grrrrrrrrr


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> of what ? lol
> 
> well im 2 walks done got 1 more to go having a coffee and a 5 min rest lol


 
well i never deny being a mong :lol2:

B/N ADJUSTABLE SMALL DOG MUZZLE on eBay, also Muzzles, Dogs, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 19-Jan-08 07:47:44 GMT)

or should i just go for something like a halti and leave the muzzle part on and let them run around like mentalists.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Meko said:


> well i never deny being a mong :lol2:
> 
> B/N ADJUSTABLE SMALL DOG MUZZLE on eBay, also Muzzles, Dogs, Pet Supplies, Home Garden (end time 19-Jan-08 07:47:44 GMT)
> 
> or should i just go for something like a halti and leave the muzzle part on and let them run around like mentalists.


LOL well no ya dint though i was very subtle about the way i put duoh you forgot the link :lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

yeah they would probs work though when another owner sees a dog with a muzzle on they instantly think its a nasty dog lol

I have it all the time peeps say are they nasty..........i say no why?.....then the why have they got a muzzle on ?..........reply is its not a muzzle its a face harness............


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

well i've just discovered how to get her to walk with me.. RUN!!

has to walk ahead, probably cos she's young and full of energy and just walks faster than me but if i run she stays next to me or behind me. Just a shame i can't run that far cos i'm an awd knacker.


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## daisyleo (Nov 23, 2006)

Emmaj said:


> yeah they would probs work though when another owner sees a dog with a muzzle on they instantly think its a nasty dog lol
> 
> I have it all the time peeps say are they nasty..........i say no why?.....then the why have they got a muzzle on ?..........reply is its not a muzzle its a face harness............


 
I think ppl thinking it's a nasty dog is a good thing, it keeps the chavs away lol and the old lady lap dogs won't be allowed to come over and try and hump your poor doggy then!!! lol

I have heard my mom say oh that dog must be nasty it has a muzzle on before, I always point it out that it's a head harness but she forgets :bash: I think they are brilliant myself, shame my staffy is scared of anything over his head or face :whistling2:

It sounds like you are making progress Meko so well done, although I wouldn't start running, imagine what happens next when she starts to catch up :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i bought her a halti to stop her pulling..... she ate it! 

i'm not a big fan of running but if i can tire her out a bit with a bit of a jog and then walk her i'll be making some progress.. lol.
hardest part is the weather, with it being so cold and raining the idea of taking them both out seperately doesn't impress me too much so having to try and manage them together and jogging seems to be the only way.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Meko said:


> i bought her a halti to stop her pulling..... she ate it!
> 
> i'm not a big fan of running but if i can tire her out a bit with a bit of a jog and then walk her i'll be making some progress.. lol.
> hardest part is the weather, with it being so cold and raining the idea of taking them both out seperately doesn't impress me too much so having to try and manage them together and jogging seems to be the only way.


she ate it :lol2:

Hey if you think its bad going out twice i have to do it 3 times soon to be 4 :lol2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

well i'm in agony this morning.. not from the running though.

Rio must have stored some food for later last night, Wilo found it at 4:30 this morning and they started fighting over it. When i broke it up Rio managed to catch me with his teeth. 
I've now got a hole in my arm on the inside of the elbow and it looks like you can see the muscle through it.


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## sarah1207 (Dec 17, 2007)

oh mikmo i hope u get things sorted soon i really do , maybe get the arm looked at, i hope it aint to bad


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i hope i do as well, she's trying to go backwards on the house training.

yesterday i nipped to the loo, she pooed. Took them for a walk, came home, went to bed and she poo'ed while i was brushing my teeth. Got up at 4:30, let them out, got bit, went back to bed. Woke up and jumped in the shower, she pooed! usually i open the back door to let them out before i get in the shower.
no doubt she'll be pooing now.


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## sarah1207 (Dec 17, 2007)

oh hun, i really dont no what else to sugest, as everyone seems to have already said everything, we have a yorkshire terrier that no matter what pess in the house, let him out ands he comes nbak in and pees, so i do no how youy feel,


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

yeah if i let her out and close the door she lies on the decking :bash:
she will go outside some times although if i put paper down in the hall she'll use that (or i'm getting lucky with where i put it).

Thinking of getting a big storage box from Asda (bit like a RUB) and putting the paper in that like a big litter tray.


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## sarah1207 (Dec 17, 2007)

you could try that, or puppy traing pads, ???


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

thought about that but i'd need donkey training pads!!

she'd probably chew the nappy off, a halti lasted 10 minutes.


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## sarah1207 (Dec 17, 2007)

news paper sounds good then lol, maybe the sunday times or one of them huge ones that u cant even read propper lol


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

that means buying one, lol..i'm using the freebies at the minute.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

How about a crate? I use one with my puppy and he has only ever peed or crapped in the house mayeb two or three times.: victory:


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## sarah1207 (Dec 17, 2007)

i think one is already used


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

well today she's managed to get in my lodgers room and he's not happy at all.. i've run out of ideas with her..


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## tilly790 (Jan 24, 2008)

Id put them in the yard with shed for shelter. I have to put my rescue rottie out when we at work or i wouldnt have a house to come home to.


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

i do hope u find a way to keep her as they are great dogs,
mine were in there cages when i was at work or out. Till they were 2 years old
as my last dog when he was younger managed to do so much damage came home one day to find he had made a hole in the living room door and made his way though it,he was an akita so they are big dogs but most days i just wanted to cry because i never knew what i was coming home to.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

the problem with the shed is that i don't know how safe they'll be and how noisy.. my garden isn't huge either and she obviously likes going mental.

lodger isnt happy and i can't afford to run the house without his rent or replace anything of his she trashes.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Meko said:


> i hope i do as well, she's trying to go backwards on the house training.
> 
> yesterday i nipped to the loo, she pooed. Took them for a walk, came home, went to bed and she poo'ed while i was brushing my teeth. Got up at 4:30, let them out, got bit, went back to bed. Woke up and jumped in the shower, she pooed! usually i open the back door to let them out before i get in the shower.
> no doubt she'll be pooing now.


 
Huskys do go backwards with toilet training at different ages............nanook who i have had from a pup is near 10 months old and been house trained since 12 wks fully decided to hop of my bed the other day and pee on the carpet.............im afraid its a husky thing is that

I think your best option is gonna have to be crate training females more so wont tend to toilet in a place they have to relax so if she poo's in the crate or wee's she will then catch on that she will have to lay in it until she is let out.............this tends to get them out of pooing where they shouldnt poo 

you could try it


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

problem is emma she'll be in there too long during the day.. the pooing isn't the main problem its the destruction. she needs to be somewhere she can run about and have more attention during the day as playing with Rio obviously isn't enough for her.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

yeah i know what you mean Meko see thats the problem these dogs demand and crave so much attention 

Its easy for me and i seem to sail through with mine cos i dont work im always here with them so they dont really crave for any attention mine are never crated for any longer than an hour as a rule, but sometimes have to be on the odd ocasion in them longer but thats rare 

I do have to say these dogs are hard work if you have other commitments like work 

and i think the only way round it other than having to rehome her is to try build some kind of secure run in your garden so they can go in there through the day while you aint there


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i could empty the shed and let them have that as a kennel and lock the gate, just worried about any barking but might try them at the weekend and go out a few times.


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## alix37 (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Meko

Have you tried Search Champdogs for the Top UK and European Dog Breeders. A great forum for dogs.

They will probably be able to help you a lot. And advise you on your breed, as there is alot of controversy surrounding the NI dog. Is she getting enought exercise, before and after you get home from work.

Also if you are another good tip, is too put loads of toys down for her only when you are out. So she does not become bored with them being out all the time. Squeaky toys, empty pop bottles etc. Another thing I do with my dog, is leave out frozen pigs feet, ears that are raw. 

So after a run in the morning, followed by knawing at a frozen pig's foot or ear for a few hours and then toy's. It will hopefully divert her attention away from your furniture. By the time she has done al this. She maybe ready to sleep the rest of the day. 

hth

Alix


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i'll have a look at that cheers, one of the problems is she doesn't get enough exercise in the morning. I'm trying to change my habits as well so i can take her out for longer - going to bed earlier although i think i've failed tonight. 

there are plenty of toys in their room and she's Rio to play with all day as well. He seems to instigate a lot of the playing even though he's a lot older than her. I've even set aside play time for her where i can play and fight with her but she just lies down.... pretty much does that whenever i'm around :bash:

With the pooing she seems to poo on or around paper if i put it down so i've just bought 2 big contico tubs from Asda (about 30inches long and 6 inches dep). Going to put paper in there and hope she'll get tray trained.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

they have a tendancy to walk round in like a circle when they poo so she is probs starting her aim off on the paper and missing it with the wander round :lol2:

All of mine are walk and poo'ers apart from Nanook


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

apparently the other day my lodger came in and she started at the top of the stairs and finished in the lounge.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Hi it sounds to me like she is mentally bored. If they are anything like a GSD then they NEED to use their brain. Try and get her out for a run first thing praise lots when she toilets outside give her a stuffed kong and puzzle ball try and get someone to call in foe ten mins halfway through the day. Intelligent dogs need mental stimulation or they destroy things. The toileting in the house sounds like seperation anxiety. Google it and teach her how to be calm on her own it can be done. If at the end of the day you have to rehome her at least you have tried everything just make sure the new owners dont work all day. Goodluck


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

cheers Shell. 
she's just very confusing. i don't actually have to do anything with her, just sit there and ignore her and she's chilled out. If i go into their room and try and play with her and 'toy fight' she'll just lie there so i end up using her as a pillow and falling asleep on her.
I've thought about getting a life sized manequin of me and just standing it in the hall or sitting it on the sofa so she thinks i'm there.



one problem is that when she's learns to stop toileting in the house or i have to break my likkle heart and wave good bye i'll have 2 contico tubs with nothing in them :whistling2:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Well i spent all day thinking about it and i've had to make the worst choice of my life.

I made a list of pro's and cons..

*pro's.....*
i love her to bits
i don't want to give up on here

*cons......*
It's not fair on her. 
she needs more attention, i can't give it her while i'm out so long
she deserves better
i can't keep hoping miracles will happen
the house is going to stink
lodger is getting pissed off and won't stick around while i hope for miracles. Can't live without his rent money and can't see anybody else wanting to move into this carnage
Rio is knocking on, there's at least 7 years difference between them and one day i'll lose him and she'll be on her own all day.

it's breaking my heart and i'm going to be in bits but the lady i got her off will take her back to rehome her. She's got her friends there that she was living with before i got her so she'll be happy. Hope she doesn't forget me though cos i'm going to miss the crazy little cow like hell..

Camera is going to be working overtime these next couple of days till i drop her off but hopefully she'll go to a better place with people who can give her more time and a big garden to destroy. 

I've just put my last £3 on the lottery as my final hope. If i win anything decent i'll quite happily move to a house with a big garden just so i can keep her..


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Sounds like its for the best at least you tried mate : victory:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Look dont be too harsh on yourself see at least you have tried there are many people that wouldnt have stuck it out as long as you have hun 

she will be fine they adapt so quickly so dont worry about her 

she will always remember you as thats one thing about these dogs they never forget people : victory:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Cheers Andy and Emma.. 

Its going to kill me, my lodger came in and glared at her as he's pissed off with her for a few reasons.. 1 being the smell, 2 being her getting into his room and 3 being the 'fight' and not thinking he could bring his son round.. Before he even said anything i told him she was going and he just went back to normal and soft with her. No matter angry you are with her you have to love her.

She might not forget me and move on and adapt quickly but i don't know if i will.. thats the thing thats kept me hanging in there so long..


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Meko said:


> Cheers Andy and Emma..
> 
> Its going to kill me, my lodger came in and glared at her as he's pissed off with her for a few reasons.. 1 being the smell, 2 being her getting into his room and 3 being the 'fight' and not thinking he could bring his son round.. Before he even said anything i told him she was going and he just went back to normal and soft with her. No matter angry you are with her you have to love her.
> 
> She might not forget me and move on and adapt quickly but i don't know if i will.. thats the thing thats kept me hanging in there so long..


I know its gonna be hard for you hun but you have to do this if you were to keep her it would be selfish she needs as you say constant attention which you cant give her at the moment..............so you are doing the right thing no matter how wrong it may seem : victory:


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

my mum said she'd have her. she's only seen her once, fell in love and was crying today thinking i'd was going to have to get rid. My mums retired and could give her the attention she needs but won't be able to handle her on the lead. 
i can't give her the time she needs before i can train her to stop pulling


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

well is their no way that your mum could take her but you go and walk her ?

then that way she wont have to go to far away cos if you were to go and give her a good like 2 hour walk when you get home from work she should be fine


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

also with time and regular exercise she will eventually stop pulling as bad my rescue Marni did and he is a huge moot he weighs 36.5 kilos and im only a lil dot at 4ft he weighs nearly as much as me too lol


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i live in preston, i work in bolton and my mum lives in radcliffe.

preston ------------ bolton -------------- radcliffe.

i finish work in bolton at 5, be the time i get to radcliffe it'll be about half 5. A 2 hour walk takes it to about 8pm (after my mum stops talking at me), then if i leave straight away i'll get home at about 8:40 which means Rio has been on his own since 7:30am. If i take Rio out as soon as i get in that means i won't eat till 10pm and then theres cleaning and eating etc as well as Rio being on his own for over 13 hours.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

hmmm true 

what about getting her a help stop pull harness and go over with her to your mums and let her walk her a few times with you there just incase


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i bought her a halti. 10 minutes later she ate it


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

LOL your not supposed to let them play with them :bash::lol2:

mine hated them at first but i perserveered with them and they are okies with them now


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i put it on her and took her for a walk. she kept pulling it off, came back and went to the loo, by the time i came back down it was in bit on the floor.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

bless her she really did put her foot down with that one then 

there are the harnesses you can get you could try one of them and see if ya mum can walk her


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

i really can't see my mum having her.. she's just trying to help me out even though i know she couldn;t handle her at all


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

yeah but bless her for offering


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

I just saw this link and thought of you, hope it helps. Sorry I cant give any advice to help.
ObedienceUK


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

Hows things going?


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## Elaine R (Feb 2, 2008)

Hi Meko
Sorry to hear you are having so many problems with Wilo. NI's are not an easy dog no matter what they say on the breeders websites. Still being a young breed the NI is still showing numerous tendancies that the breeders dont tell you about. 
The breed seemingly started using 5 imported dogs which may/may not have had wolf heritage but the breed founders are keeping quiet when questioned about the breed history. Other northern breeds were added along with GSD. Nobody is getting answers on the breeds true heritage so who really knows what is in the mix.
My NI will be 7 years old in a few days and in typical NI fashion still hasnt grown up. He is destructive, dominant, high prey drive (including small kids) and dog aggressive. The breeders dont tell you of these possibilities when buying an NI but instead make them sounds like an easy, family pet that will lay about all day with little exercise. I have found this totally untrue in my dog. I walk mine at least 3 - 4 hours per day and he could still go some lol. NI's dont do well at home alone and do tend to get destructive. I have an outside kennel for my dogs when I'm not going to be home for any length of time.
I walk him with a leather Dogmatic headcollar that he cant get off Dogmatic Headcollar We failed miserably with the Halti and a harness doesnt work as it just makes him pull lol. 

Anyway, I'm rabbitting on here. All I wanted to say was I'm sorry you are having to find out the hard way that these dogs are not all as they have been made out to be.
Good luck with your decision. xx


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Hi Elaine..

i did have to look at sending her back but realised i couldn't let her go. I spent all weekend turning the garden into their own little haven and converting the shed into a kennel for them both (Wilo and Rio a staffy cross). So far things seem to be going ok although she does try to dig her way out of the only weak spot - 8inches wide. She'll dig as far down as she can and yesterday Rio got out so i've put a dog cage in front of it to stop her getting to it. At the weekend i'll fill it in with rubble and post mix so its sold and she can't dig down.. 
Wils only seems aggressive on the lead, if she's introduced to other dogs she's fine so i think she just needs 'breaking' and realising she doesn't need to protect me.

With the lazing around.. she will laze around if there's somebody there. She'll refuse to play but lie there relaxing. My mum looked after her till i got the garden sorted and she thought she was unhappy as she didn't do much, but thats what she does. If there is a human there she's content to just chill out... but as soon as she sees me walk in she's all over me.

The exercise, to say she's only 2 she doesn't need an amazing amount but as she pulls on the lead i'll jog up and down the street with her till she starts lagging behind and then she'll go home and collapse asleep. It's walking them in the morning thats the hard part but she's fine when i get the chance, if i don't its a run when i get home and then a run before bed.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

Well so far the outside trick has been working nicely.

No pooing in the house since, even at night. Only problem is Wils likes to poo in the shed sometimes rather than the garden... women eh!!


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## linda.t (Sep 28, 2007)

good luck just think of all that spare time u have now your not cleaning up after her: victory: hope it works out.


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