# Holding A Spider...Even If Its Only Once?



## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Afternoon 

Just a few questions from a newbie. 

i know spiders would rather be left in peace to bumble around their tanks without ever having to touch a human hand, and i can appreciate this but.... i would love to have my G.pulchra and G.sp maule walk across my hand even if its just the once...just so i can see what its like and also so i can say to myself that I've done it.

I'm aware of the risk of them falling so obvioously i would take precautions say over my bed so at least if they fell or ran off my hand they would land somewhere soft and not from any height to cause damage/death etc.

My questions are :- 

Having seen their fangs...especially the pulchras black weapons! I'm wondering that if she decided to bite me...would it be a bite - let go or a bite - hang on ?

I know you're to leave them alone if coming up to moult/during and after...but is there any rules after they've been fed. Example-snakes can stay in feeding mode and bite you thinking you are food if you try to touch them too soon after feeding, is it the same with spiders??

When trying to hold them for the first time do you just simply lay your hand flat in their tank and touch their back end with a pen to encourage them to step onto your hand? i tried this the other day with my pulchra, put her tank on my bed, put my hand in and very gently stroked her back leg with a pen....and she shot off up and over her tank onto my bed-immediately stopped dead....then slowly climbed back into her tank on her own.

My maule seems a bit skittish so should i not even bother with trying to hold her or should i try once anyway?

Sorry for the essay and thanks for any answers to my many questions and if there's any other pointers you can throw my way...thanks for them aswell :2thumb:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

rach w said:


> Afternoon
> 
> My questions are :-
> 
> Having seen their fangs...especially the pulchras black weapons! I'm wondering that if she decided to bite me...would it be a bite - let go or a bite - hang on ?


depends how its feeling, it may even bite you two or three times in the blink of an eye



rach w said:


> I know you're to leave them alone if coming up to moult/during and after...but is there any rules after they've been fed. Example-snakes can stay in feeding mode and bite you thinking you are food if you try to touch them too soon after feeding, is it the same with spiders??


nope, spider brains dont work the same way as snake brains
think of it this way "can i eat it?...will it eat me?" thats about the extent



rach w said:


> When trying to hold them for the first time do you just simply lay your hand flat in their tank and touch their back end with a pen to encourage them to step onto your hand? i tried this the other day with my pulchra, put her tank on my bed, put my hand in and very gently stroked her back leg with a pen....and she shot off up and over her tank onto my bed-immediately stopped dead....then slowly climbed back into her tank on her own.


whatever feels good for you...although the spider may or may not agree 



rach w said:


> My maule seems a bit skittish so should i not even bother with trying to hold her or should i try once anyway?


totally your choice


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> depends how its feeling, it may even bite you two or three times in the blink of an eye
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks steve...i will let you know how i get on!!  neither of them have shown an ounce of defensive movement when i put my hand in at all. The pulchra seems like nothing phases her and doesn't rear or scuttle away when i go in her tank. So even though she's twice the size of the maule i think i will try with her first : victory:


Oh...one more question. When you measure leg span, is it from side to side or front legs to back? Thanks


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

I doubt there's anyone that hasn't handled one of their Ts at least once even if they are of the "tarantulas aren't to be handled" mentality. You should at least do it once for the experience and I personally do it every now and again with some of my Ts I know are fairly docile.

Just by brushing one of their back legs you can instantly tell whether or not they'll tolerate handling. My advice would be to be confident but don't push them too much and if it seems like they're particularly adverse to handling then try again in a week or so.


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

rach w said:


> Oh...one more question. When you measure leg span, is it from side to side or front legs to back? Thanks


1st to 5th legs. I.e. diagonally (I think :lol2


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

rach w said:


> Oh...one more question. When you measure leg span, is it from side to side or front legs to back? Thanks


right leg one, to left leg four, tip to tip


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

antcherry88 said:


> You should at least do it once for the experience


why would this be then?


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

I used the rubber end of a pencil to very gently coax my New River onto a folded piece of paper and from there she walked onto my hand, I held her for a few minutes and then she walked of my hand back into her home, felt odd in a nice way as their feet have tiny hooks on them.

And now I know what it feels like to hold a big spider


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks guys  going to try hold them in the next half hour so will post how i got on lol


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> I used the rubber end of a pencil to very gently coax my New River onto a folded piece of paper and from there she walked onto my hand, I held her for a few minutes and then she walked of my hand back into her home, felt odd in a nice way as their feet have tiny hooks on them.
> 
> And now I know what it feels like to hold a big spider


Well i a few days ago i tried using a pen very gently and off she went like a rat up a pipe! She didn't act angry,upset or anything....just a bit startled that she felt something touch her back leg! Which in turn made me hit the ceiling as she was like a rocket and i didn't expect it lol. Was shaking like a leaf afterwards ha ha.


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> why would this be then?


Because it's interesting and not comparable to holding any other sort of animal. If you're going to keep tarantulas at least hold them once and you'll learn to appreciate them and make you're own mind up regarding the handling debate.

I learnt just how fragile they are, how nervous they are, and how they don't appreciate being bothered. That's why I don't really handle mine much.


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## Mrchancellor87 (Jan 10, 2012)

rach w said:


> Well i a few days ago i tried using a pen very gently and off she went like a rat up a pipe! She didn't act angry,upset or anything....just a bit startled that she felt something touch her back leg! Which in turn made me hit the ceiling as she was like a rocket and i didn't expect it lol. Was shaking like a leaf afterwards ha ha.


Yeah half the battle is the confidence in touching them and not pooing yourself with the reaction. That comes with time and experiance. If it does bolt or bite, you gotta be calm as you could panic and fling the poor T across the room 

Anyway I was just going to say, I've got a big pulchra girl. Just be careful because like most Grammostolas, they can be unpredictable in their moods. One day im holding her fine, the next day she bites the paintbrush.

Always test it first


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Well I've just held my pulchra  it seems that touching her bum with a pen doesn't create the same panic response as touching her back leg with one :lol2:
She walked slowly on to my hand, had a little walk around then just sat there for a minute  their feet do feel a bit like velcro, don't know why but i expected them to feel fluffy :blush:
She's back in her house now and I'm going to hold the maule when she's out of her flowerpot! Now she DOES look like a golden ball of fluff :2thumb:


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Mrchancellor87 said:


> Yeah half the battle is the confidence in touching them and not pooing yourself with the reaction. That comes with time and experiance. If it does bolt or bite, you gotta be calm as you could panic and fling the poor T across the room
> 
> Anyway I was just going to say, I've got a big pulchra girl. Just be careful because like most Grammostolas, they can be unpredictable in their moods. One day im holding her fine, the next day she bites the paintbrush.
> 
> Always test it first


i hear ya  I've learnt with having boas...you can't mess around with unconfidence. Test the mood ....then go right in there without giving em time to think of what their moves gonna be


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

The world as we know it could now come to an end :gasp: now the spider has walked upon the hand, as was foretold. 

Or wait is that when the monkey rides the jaguar?.


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Oderus said:


> The world as we know it could now come to an end :gasp: now the spider has walked upon the hand, as was foretold.
> 
> Or wait is that when the monkey rides the jaguar?.


No you were right first time "as it was foretold...now it hath been done, let there now be peace among all men and may the creatures live amongst them" : victory:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Congratulations on holding your T 

Im not touching my Chile. Shes moody as hell. she really hates her legs being brushed but doesn't mind it on her abdomen. This is obviously not uncommon then if urs is like that too. 

I shake like a leaf too if she strikes at the tongs when I brush her on an off day lol

When my juvie smithi arrives and settles in, im definately going to try handling it as its much less likely to bite than my Chile, well thats what im hoping anyway!
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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> Congratulations on holding your T
> 
> Im not touching my Chile. Shes moody as hell. But she really hates her legs being brushed but doesn't mind it on her abdomen. This is obviously not uncommon then if urs is like that too.
> 
> ...


My New River did not mind too much when I gently touched her legs but my Pulchra hated it and she scooted right out the tub the day I got her, never thought of gently touching the abdomen though.


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> Congratulations on holding your T
> 
> Im not touching my Chile. Shes moody as hell. she really hates her legs being brushed but doesn't mind it on her abdomen. This is obviously not uncommon then if urs is like that too.
> 
> ...


Thanks! It was awesome holding such a big spider for the first time  
Yeah i reckon if you get a juvi it makes sense that if you handle regular as it grows it will get more used to it aslong as its ment to have a docile nature to start off with


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

My Chile has never flicked either. Shes all about the fangs.

The other day she was so p****d off at me for trying to guide her away from the area that needed maintenance, she grabbed the brush, pulled it towards her and bit out multiple times when I touched her leg. I was shaking so bad after that I had to stop what I was doing and go back later once she'd moved of her own accord lol

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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> My Chile has never flicked either. Shes all about the fangs.
> 
> The other day she was so p****d off at me for trying to guide her away from the area that needed maintenance, she grabbed the brush, pulled it towards her and bit out multiple times when I touched her leg. I was shaking so bad after that I had to stop what I was doing and go back later once she'd moved of her own accord lol
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


:lol2: if your chile had a thumb...you'd be under it by the sound of it. What a bossy spider!


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

antcherry88 said:


> I doubt there's anyone that hasn't handled one of their Ts at least once even if they are of the "tarantulas aren't to be handled" mentality. You should at least do it once for the experience and I personally do it every now and again with some of my Ts I know are fairly docile.
> 
> Just by brushing one of their back legs you can instantly tell whether or not they'll tolerate handling. My advice would be to be confident but don't push them too much and if it seems like they're particularly adverse to handling then try again in a week or so.


I am one of those "tarantulas aren't to be handled" types, and can honestly say, I have never deliberately held any tarantula. I just don't feel the need or desire to.

Exactly what experience does handling give you if it's only the once and you are never going to do it again?


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Perhaps its part of the process in over coming a fear of spiders? Or she wanted to see what its like? I'm sure if the spider was that traumatized it would let the person know about it.

And yip, I am pwned by that spider. Saying that when I needed to move her to put her in her new set up she didnt put up a fight when I touxhed her abdomen, its the legs she hates. Though when shes mad, theres no mistaking it lol

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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

snowgoose said:


> I am one of those "tarantulas aren't to be handled" types, and can honestly say, I have never deliberately held any tarantula. I just don't feel the need or desire to.
> 
> Exactly what experience does handling give you if it's only the once and you are never going to do it again?


Well I've never had a fear of spiders, infact I've always wanted a tarantula coz i find spiders fascinating. i was just aware that they don't need handling, accidents can occur from handling and they don't miss out if not handled...and i just wanted to see what it was like and i could maybe handle them occasionally from time to time if i felt like it, was careful of their safety and providing they seemed in a good mood.. The "just once" was a figure of speech really :lol2: : victory:


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## Craig Mackay (Feb 2, 2009)

antcherry88 said:


> Just by brushing one of their back legs you can instantly tell whether or not they'll tolerate handling.


You'll come a cropper one day if you stick with that rule. Many spiders will tolerate being touched in the back legs for some time before eventually exploding in a fit of fury. Be careful.


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## antcherry88 (Mar 28, 2011)

snowgoose said:


> I am one of those "tarantulas aren't to be handled" types, and can honestly say, I have never deliberately held any tarantula. I just don't feel the need or desire to.
> 
> Exactly what experience does handling give you if it's only the once and you are never going to do it again?


I explained above, once you've handled one you (may) appreciate the reasons why you shouldn't do it very often/shouldn't do it ever again/should do it all the time. It gives people a chance to make their own opinions on the matter.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

antcherry88 said:


> I explained above, once you've handled one you (may) appreciate the reasons why you shouldn't do it very often/shouldn't do it ever again/should do it all the time. It gives people a chance to make their own opinions on the matter.


But handling has been talked about many times on this forum, and others, and the overall answer given is that handling is not needed and is pretty pointless doing if only for your own personal gain.

There are many experienced keepers who always advise not to hold your T, but does anyone listen???

If you do your research before buying your T, then you will / should have read the do's and don'ts and handling is generally a don't.

You shouldn't have to handle to appreciate why you shouldn't. That sounds very hypocritical.


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## Oderus (Nov 24, 2009)

snowgoose said:


> There are many experienced keepers who always advise not to hold your T, but does anyone listen???


Because the world is doomed, doom'ed I tells them, but they never listen :crazy:


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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

i handle t's every day for educations shows.... never had i prob with handling as long as its done right. 
but i also respect people for not handling them and i do kind of agree with them dispite my work....but i dont handle any of my own personal collection

but as everyone has said just because they've been docile for the past 3 years dont mean to say they will be the next time you pick them up,
our chili done this....








last tues and she gets handled 2/3 a week for nearly 10 years and before anyone says it...no i didnt just break it myself,


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't really think that just because SOME experienced owners say you shouldnt handle means people HAVE to listen. Its just an opinion.

If I want to handle a tarantula, I will. My pet, my choice.

Just as people choose not to handle, people who do have that choice too. If they are aware of the risks and the spider is safe, who are they hurting? Nobody, so live & let live 

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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

while you are on drop your T in the deep fat fryer and have a munch, just for the experience of course, millions of people do it every day :2thumb:


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> I don't really think that just because SOME experienced owners say you shouldnt handle means people HAVE to listen. Its just an opinion.
> 
> *If I want to handle a tarantula, I will. My pet, my choice.*
> 
> ...


Mine are pets as well but I don't think I'll be handling them, I seen my Pulchra's fangs when she was feeding and was like OMG they're huge :lol2:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Im definately not handling my Chile, and I reckon ill only handle my smithi depending on its general temperament and certainly not often. I think its a step I have to take to be 100% confident around them.

Handling Ts I reckon is always going to be up for debate on here, but the way I see it, its not 'wrong' or illegal. Its frowned upon. 

Steve, people eat cats & dogs too, so should we chuck them in the fryer while we're at it? Lol

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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> Im definately not handling my Chile, and I reckon ill only handle my smithi depending on its general temperament and certainly not often. I think its a step I have to take to be 100% confident around them.
> 
> Handling Ts I reckon is always going to be up for debate on here, but the way I see it, its not 'wrong' or illegal. Its frowned upon.
> 
> ...


 
*Hides my 2 cats from you* :whip::lol2:


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> I don't really think that just because SOME experienced owners say you shouldnt handle means people HAVE to listen. Its just an opinion.
> 
> If I want to handle a tarantula, I will. My pet, my choice.
> 
> ...


Well, it's not just some, but the general majority of experienced keepers ( I've yet to meet one who suggests handling a T )

No-one said it wasn't your choice, it's just recommended not to be done.

they aren't hurting anyone if it's all "safe" and everything is wrapped in bubble wrap, until it decides to munch on your hand, then it will be hurting YOU!!!


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Thats why I said as long as they know the risks 

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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> Thats why I said as long as they know the risks
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


Exactly, there are risks, so why risk it if there's no need?


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

You could say that about all and everything that involves risks, not just holding Ts.

Theres no need to skydive, swim with sharks, binge drink, take drugs but people still do it.

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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> You could say that about all and everything that involves risks, not just holding Ts.
> 
> Theres no need to skydive, swim with sharks, binge drink, take drugs but people still do it.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


yes, but most risks are calculated. You have no way of calculating risks when talking about T's, they might bite, they might not, there's no way of knowing until it happens.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> You could say that about all and everything that involves risks, not just holding Ts.
> 
> Theres no need to skydive, swim with sharks, binge drink, take drugs but people still do it.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


so its purely for selfish reasons then?


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

There's no way of knowing if you might be in a car crash, theres no way of knowing your friendly dog will never attack you but you let it live in your house anyway.

Do you see where im going with this?

If a person is aware of the risks of handling their Ts, then they aren't hurting anyone but themselves. So what does it matter to anyone else what they do?

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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Steve keeping Ts in tanks to look at is purely for selfish reasons but we're all doing it because we want to 

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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> Steve keeping Ts in tanks to look at is purely for selfish reasons.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


yes, but if kept correctly both themselves and you are at no risk.

unfortunately this cant be said during a handling session


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

getting back to knowing the risks.

you know that when bitten or stung on the hand, instinct takes over to shake the aggressor off to stop the pain

you know that until you get bitten you have no way of knowing if you are in fact allergic to the venom, or even the toxins released by the bacteria


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Like I keep saying, if a person chooses to handle their T, and they are aware of the risks, they're only hurting themselves, so what does it matter to anyone else what they do?

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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

You have no way of knowing if your allergic to anything. You cant not do/eat/touch everything incase you may be allergic to it.

All small animals have the potential to bite and be shook off and subsequently injured but people still handle them. Hamsters, terrapins, etc..

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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

what i suggest is that these people practice with a stapler first and see their own reaction to a possible bite, just to make sure that the spider wont be harmed through any involuntary reaction should it happen

this way no venom is injected, so no problem with anaphylaxis, just the mechanical damage and pain inflicted by the actual bite

size 10 staples should do for an average


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Then everybody who owns an animal capable of biting should do the same if they intend to handle their pets. Why is it any different for T keepers?

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## ch4dg (Jul 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> what i suggest is that these people practice with a stapler first and see their own reaction to a possible bite, just to make sure that the spider wont be harmed through any involuntary reaction should it happen
> 
> this way no venom is injected, so no problem with anaphylaxis, just the mechanical damage and pain inflicted by the actual bite
> 
> size 10 staples should do for an average


i've never been bite but i may actually do this





....to my bro of course, i dont plan on getting bit(or stapled)


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> what i suggest is that these people practice with a stapler first and see their own reaction to a possible bite, just to make sure that the spider wont be harmed through any involuntary reaction should it happen
> 
> this way no venom is injected, so no problem with anaphylaxis, just the mechanical damage and pain inflicted by the actual bite
> 
> size 10 staples should do for an average


I think I'll just stick to watching my spiders, they are so fascinating


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I just dont see why its only T keepers that need to self harm with staplers lol

I should head over to the rodents and shelled section to advize against handling incase you harm your pet through involuntary actions, cos these animals dont want or need to be handled either. See how far that gets me.

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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> Then everybody who owns an animal capable of biting should do the same if they intend to handle their pets. Why is it any different for T keepers?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


Because the majority of domesticated / pet animals can and have been tamed.

This is IMPOSSIBLE with Ts.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> Then everybody who owns an animal capable of biting should do the same if they intend to handle their pets. Why is it any different for T keepers?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!



because with spiders they inject venom! and the chances of being allergic to the complex proteins are much much higher than, say cheerios or dog spit :lol2:
why is it so hard to grasp?

never mind, the thing is not IF it will happen, but WHEN...because it ALWAYS does...ALWAYS, it may be tomorrow, it may be in 10 years, but it will

please document any and all reactions to the bite well when it does, because we always welcome first person input


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

And like ive said, I could also be allergic to anything but im not going to avoid everything 'just incase'.

So do snakes, millipeeds have toxic liquid, but people still handle them!!! Are you going to lecture them on the risks too?

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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> And like ive said, I could also be allergic to anything but im not going to avoid everything 'just incase'.
> 
> So do snakes, millipeeds have toxic liquid, but people still handle them!!! Are you going to lecture them on the risks too?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


I would rather have a bite from any of my snakes rather than a bite from one of my spiders.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> And like ive said, I could also be allergic to anything but im not going to avoid everything 'just incase'.
> 
> So do snakes, millipeeds have toxic liquid, but people still handle them!!! Are you going to lecture them on the risks too?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


this is the invert section, i gave up on DWA snakes years ago.


people get warned about certain species of millipede exuding cyanide based fluids regular...the difference being is the method of attack.

hopefully you will get tagged soon so you can understand simply without the need to explain any further, because it seems it is the only way that you yourself will learn


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> And like ive said, I could also be allergic to anything but im not going to avoid everything 'just incase'.
> 
> So do snakes, millipeeds have toxic liquid, but people still handle them!!! Are you going to lecture them on the risks too?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

This will go on forever...

I am aware if I choose to handle my T that people will disagree with it and it comes with risks.

But the people who disagree need to accept people will still handle their Ts despite how you feel about, they're not doing anything wrong or illegal.

But if and when they get bit, feel free to say 'i told you so' 

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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> This will go on forever...
> 
> I am aware if I choose to handle my T that people will disagree with it and it comes with risks.
> 
> ...



i'm not telling you not to, i am defending perfectly acceptable points to which people should be made aware.

you are trying to invalidate these valid points with invalid argument

it would be akin to me saying to you 'why bother breathing? just stop and dont die of cancer' totally invalid, but its an attempt at invalidating a valid point with invalid argument


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> i'm not telling you not to, i am defending perfectly acceptable points to which people should be made aware.
> 
> you are trying to invalidate these valid points with invalid argument
> 
> it would be akin to me saying to you 'why bother breathing? just stop and dont die of cancer' totally invalid, but its an attempt at invalidating a valid point with invalid argument


you sure that's valid? :lol2:


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## MaskFac3 (Dec 2, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> When my juvie smithi arrives and settles in, im definately going to try handling it as its much less likely to bite than my Chile, well thats what im hoping anyway!


I seem to get the spiders which don't read the training Manual my smithi is evil it teleports and in the last day I've seen 3 threat postures from it.


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> this is the invert section, i gave up on DWA snakes years ago.
> 
> 
> people get warned about certain species of millipede exuding cyanide based fluids regular...the difference being is the method of attack.
> ...


Its the same method of attack as a snake, the snake has venom, the snake could get injured.

Yes this is the invert section, but the snake risk is exactly the same as Ts, yet there are no threads like this attacking snake handlers. So go and wish ill on them to 'teach them a lesson'. 

Why does it bother you all what risks people take with their pets? If its not hurting YOU why does it matter?



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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

MaskFac3 said:


> I seem to get the spiders which don't read the training Manual my smithi is evil it teleports and in the last day I've seen 3 threat postures from it.


And if thats its temperament I wont be going near it! I think ive said that already.

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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

babyjo84 said:


> Its the same method of attack as a snake, the snake has venom, the snake could get injured.
> 
> Yes this is the invert section, but the snake risk is exactly the same as Ts, yet there are no threads like this attacking snake handlers. So go and wish ill on them to 'teach them a lesson'.
> 
> ...


total codswallop


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Flippin eck' ever been sorry you asked a question! :gasp: didn't realise it would open a can of worms!: :lol2:


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

rach w said:


> Flippin eck' ever been sorry you asked a question! :gasp: didn't realise it would open a can of worms!: :lol2:


Aye you've gone and done it now hun, you do realise that all these worms have to be caught and put back in the can :lol2:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Its one of those debates that will go round & round & round.

They act like im telling everybody to run off and start grabbing their Ts.

My points are invalid because I compared T risks to other risks of the same nature, yet nobody wishes ill on those people. Just T handlers.

Im not anti T holding, snake holding, whatever, as long as people are aware of the risks, they're not doing me any harm so im not going to lecture them about it.

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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Aye you've gone and done it now hun, you do realise that all these worms have to be caught and put back in the can :lol2:


Well I'm not rounding em up.....they might bite me head off! :2thumb:


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

rach w said:


> Well I'm not rounding em up.....they might bite me head off! :2thumb:


Tell you what, you hold the can and I'll round 'em up :lol2:


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

just curiously wats the worst that cud happen if u did handle then got a full blow WHACK from a t ur handling obv to the person not the spider and im talking about the worst t if someoen can name that for me as im into snakes and id handle a fwc or boiga and both them would give a venomous bite under less provocation thatn a spid from ym expirience


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Do you know what? Ive had a think about this and im going say, I dont think I will handle my Ts....

I can't speak for everyone but I would most likely involuntary shake the spider off if I got bit, and I would hate to do harm to my T.

That in mind, I will still defend anybodys right to do what they please with their pets as long as its done safely and they know the risks.

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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

mikeyb said:


> just curiously wats the worst that cud happen if u did handle then got a full blow WHACK from a t ur handling obv to the person not the spider and im talking about the worst t if someoen can name that for me as im into snakes and id handle a fwc or boiga and both them would give a venomous bite under less provocation thatn a spid from ym expirience


The worst case senario is you are allergic to the vemon, you go into severe anaphylactic shock and die. But this is very very rare and fatal anaphylactic shock is a risk associated with all allergies, not just T venom.

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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> just curiously wats the worst that cud happen if u did handle then got a full blow WHACK from a t ur handling obv to the person not the spider and im talking about the worst t if someoen can name that for me as im into snakes and id handle a fwc or boiga and both them would give a venomous bite under less provocation thatn a spid from ym expirience





babyjo84 said:


> The worst case senario is you are allergic to the vemon, you go into severe anaphylactic shock and die. But this is very very rare.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


I think he means which T has the worst venom, though you wouldn't know that from the grammar, spelling etc, Mike you really need to work on that :whistling2:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Lets put all the hours ive spent on here reading about Ts to the test then:

Old world Ts deliver the most potent venom?

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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> The worst case senario is you are allergic to the vemon, you go into severe anaphylactic shock and die. But this is very very rare.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


yh but anaphyaxis thhink thats the spelling u have to be exposes to the specific enzymes etc to build an intollerance i wanted an epi pen from the docs for when i get my semi venomous snakes he said its not needed till after my first bite depending on the reaction surely spiders are the same so wats the worst possible spid non dwa to get tagged by. i was always under the impression T's are pretty lame compared to a centipede or true spider like a funnel web etc


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

mikeyb said:


> just curiously wats the worst that cud happen if u did handle then got a full blow WHACK from a t ur handling obv to the person not the spider and im talking about the worst t if someoen can name that for me as im into snakes and id handle a fwc or boiga and both them would give a venomous bite under less provocation thatn a spid from ym expirience


S.calceatum would probably ruin the best part of a fortnight without any more provocation than just thinking about disturbing it..


What's got me about this whole thread was the fact it just doesn't need to be asked and shows the complete immaturity of some keepers. It is basically a wild animal with fangs and venom that can't be tamed.... Why do you need to ask whether or not it is a good idea to handle it. It is what it is, if you can't even make up your own mind as to whether you should hold it then maybe you need sell up and look after toothless geriatric cats instead as you clearly are unaware of the inherent risks to yourself or your pet...


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> Lets put all the hours ive spent on here reading about Ts to the test then:
> 
> Old world Ts deliver the most potent venom?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


From all the reading I've done I think it is the Old world T's which have the most potent venom, New world flicky with hairs, Old world nasty potent venom.


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

As with all allergies you wont know how severely you will react (if at all) until you are bitten.

A Dr should never test an allergy intolerance for no reason incase of anaphylactic shock. So thats why he wont do it until he knows how allergic you are.

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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> S.calceatum would probably ruin the best part of a fortnight without any nore provocation than just thinking about disturbing it..
> 
> 
> What's got me about this whole thread was the fact it just doesn't need to be asked and shows the complete immaturity of some keepers. It is basically a wild animal with fangs and venom that can't be tamed.... Why do you need to ask whether or not it is a good idea to handle it. It is what it is, if you can't even make up your own mind as to whether you should hold it then maybe you need sell up and look after toothless geriatric cats instead as you clearly are unaware of the inherent risks to yourself or your pet...


the same can be said for venomous snakes, they have fangs and venom yet people still keep them and handle them, am just saying like.


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

This is my point, go lecture in the snake section too if thats how you feel. See how far you get.

Although the geriatric cats did make me lol

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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> the same can be said for venomous snakes, they have fangs and venom yet people still keep them, am just saying like.


You just completely missed the point as usual. We aren't talking about snakes or snake keeping. We're giving counsel on a topic brought up by a spider keeper.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> You just completely missed the point as usual. We aren't talking about snakes or snake keeping. We're giving counsel on a topic brought up by a spider keeper.


No, I'm only saying that as you said spiders have fangs and venom, well so do some snakes, people choose to handle spiders knowing the risks, well the same can be said for snake keepers & I was only saying so there is no need to get all flippin arsey, is there.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Out of slight intrest and because I am too lazy to search on the web or anywhere else, does anybody know of and can link to any documented case where someone was found to be allergic to tarantula venom?


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> No, I'm only saying that as you said spiders have fangs and venom, well so do some snakes, people choose to handle spiders knowing the risks, well the same can be said for snake keepers & I was only saying so there is no need to get all flippin arsey, is there.


Your point was pointless though.


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

kris74 said:


> S.calceatum would probably ruin the best part of a fortnight without any more provocation than just thinking about disturbing it..
> 
> 
> What's got me about this whole thread was the fact it just doesn't need to be asked and shows the complete immaturity of some keepers. It is basically a wild animal with fangs and venom that can't be tamed.... Why do you need to ask whether or not it is a good idea to handle it. It is what it is, if you can't even make up your own mind as to whether you should hold it then maybe you need sell up and look after toothless geriatric cats instead as you clearly are unaware of the inherent risks to yourself or your pet...


Erm ... I'm new to spiders as you were a newbie once upon a time who wasn't sure of the how's or what's and I'm certain that when you started with your very first spider if you havnt been brought up with them or had any experience with them....you certainly wernt the oracle that you seem to be now.
If you read my first post to start with you would have read that i know they don't need to be picked up because of risks but that I'd like to handle them even if it was only the once to see what it felt like. i asked other questions that you would only know if you had handled one before....which i havnt as I'm new...hence me asking. i keep lots of boas and am very experienced with them.....I've just never had spiders before, so forgive me for daring to ask people for their opimions on handling. Its not as if i was planning to get them out everyday and plat their fluffy leg hair, just merely handle them once to see what it was like, maybe rarely in the future.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> Your point was pointless though.


Actually it's not pointless at all, spider keepers run the risk of potent venom in spiders, snake keepers run the same risks, both animals have fangs (species dependant with snakes), what's pointless about what I said, just because I compared 2 animals which have fangs? *sigh*




rach w said:


> Erm ... I'm new to spiders as you were a newbie once upon a time who wasn't sure of the how's or what's and I'm certain that when you started with your very first spider if you havnt been brought up with them or had any experience with them....you certainly wernt the oracle that you seem to be now.
> If you read my first post to start with you would have read that i know they don't need to be picked up because of risks but that I'd like to handle them even if it was only the once to see what it felt like. i asked other questions that you would only know if you had handled one before....which i havnt as I'm new...hence me asking. i keep lots of boas and am very experienced with them.....I've just never had spiders before, so forgive me for daring to ask people for their opimions on handling. Its not as if i was planning to get them out everyday and plat their fluffy leg hair, just merely handle them once to see what it was like, maybe rarely in the future.


Well said hun :2thumb:


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Actually it's not pointless at all, spider keepers run the risk of potent venom in spiders, snake keepers run the same risks, both animals have fangs (species dependant with snakes), what's pointless about what I said, just because I compared 2 animals which have fangs? *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Why do people think that their right to do whatever they wish with their pet overrides the requirements of the pet itself, and why do they feel this choice is of more value than the more experienced keepers. 

A tarantula is built like an egg, hard shell, soft centre. Drop the egg on the bed and its not likely to break, drop it on the floor from a foot or higher and we'll all agree that the egg is likely to break. Humpty dumpty and all that. Tarantula are just not built to withstand such falls, save for the arboreals. Ive had tarantula crawl over me, not by choice I hasten to add, and there have been instances where they've jumped and thankfully landed safely. That is more by luck than judgement as the eyes of the tarantula are not equipped to see any more than shapes. So the handling of a tarantula can easily put the tarantula in a very precarious position.
As for bites, well there are no credible cases of people dieing of tarantula bites. However, there are reports of such and the liklihood is they died from secondary infection or possible shock. A prime example is that of someone called Frazer, who moved from Scotland to Canada and travelled down to Texas for work. He is reported in the NYT as dieing from a tarantula bite, and yet the venom of tarantula from that area is quite weak.
The most venomous tarantula are the OW species: Poecilotheria, Stromatopelma, Chilobrachy, Selenocosmia, etc. Studies on some species have shown extreme pain to humans with vomiting, nausea, breathing difficulties, heart palpatations, muscle cramps etc lasting from several days to several months. I personally know of some people that have been bitten years ago and still feel the affects with occassional pain similar to arthritis or lack of feeling at the bite area. The reported affects on cats and dogs have been death within 30 minutes.
Unfortunately the secondary infection of a bite is probably of more concern as some bites have led to necrosis caused by the bacteria. If you do a search for centipede bite/turkey/necrosis you'll find a fine example of how an innocent looking centipede resulted in death.
Of course these issues are not what most people experience from their tarantula, and coupled with this the dangers of tarantula hair are not what most keepers experience. However, hospitals are finding an increase in issues, and you only have to guess why that might be.


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

Well to end my involvement in this thread (that i wish I'd never created) i don't have any of the really toxic guys ....and i also sat on my very thick luxury mattress with the tank next to me when i did hold my pulchra for the first time today so should she have fallen, she would have fallen no further then 3 inches onto spongeyness :2thumb:


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

I have to say i think its a bit sad that when someone brings up the whol handling subject it just gets shot down as 'heresy' or 'cruelty'
This is ofcouse speaking to the sensible people not the 'OMG IMA HANDLIN MA OBT' people.

You cant just say that because the experts say so people cant do it.
Life is all about the sensations and experiences if you like.
While some are stupid 'I want to know what being btten by a shark is like' there are some that arnt unreasonable.

If every precaution is taken by the reasonable keeper why does it matter so much?!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Baldpoodle said:


> Out of slight intrest and because I am too lazy to search on the web or anywhere else, does anybody know of and can link to any documented case where someone was found to be allergic to tarantula venom?


I wouldnt know 100% but from what Ive read on here before, its not possible to be allergic to tarantula venom, and its also been argued that its impossible to have an anaphylactic shock.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

rach w said:


> Well to end my involvement in this thread (that i wish I'd never created) i don't have any of the really toxic guys ....and i also sat on my very thick luxury mattress with the tank next to me when i did hold my pulchra for the first time today so should she have fallen, she would have fallen no further then 3 inches onto spongeyness :2thumb:


A mod will close it for you hun if you want, I do wonder how certain people managed when they first started out with T's when it came to them asking for advice, you'd think experienced people on here would be able to give advice without the attitude.


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

AilsaM said:


> A mod will close it for you hun if you want, I do wonder how certain people managed when they first started out with T's when it came to them asking for advice, you'd think experienced people on here would be able to give advice without the attitude.


You would hope but i think its better if this argument is left _not_ started.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> You would hope but i think its better if this argument is left _not_ started.


Indeed your right.


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## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> A mod will close it for you hun if you want, I do wonder how certain people managed when they first started out with T's when it came to them asking for advice, you'd think experienced people on here would be able to give advice without the attitude.


i could close it myself .....but i put it up and though its caused a right debate and flaming session by "the gods" other people might like to post...and who am i to stop them! At least i know my spiders won't come to any harm on my bed, I'm careful and have been bitten many times by snakes so i know my own reactions to being bitten by much bigger then spiders. My concience is clear :2thumb:


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> I have to say i think its a bit sad that when someone brings up the whol handling subject it just gets shot down as 'heresy' or 'cruelty'
> This is ofcouse speaking to the sensible people not the 'OMG IMA HANDLIN MA OBT' people.
> 
> You cant just say that because the experts say so people cant do it.
> ...


It doesn't matter a jot really. What irks people is that this question gets brought up all the time with the exact same responses. They ask an opinion so an opinion is given, some say nay and some say yay then the yay sayers get narked at the nay sayers because they don't want to be told what to do, the nay sayers get narked because their point is usually valid and generally has the best interests of the spider in mind and couldn't care a toss if the handler gets bitten but this isn't enough. It always ends up with the person willing to risk the pets, who they say they love so much and are fascinated by, life by handling and risking the bite which is pretty inevitable and then reacting by slinging it against the wall. Whether you are 3 foot or 3 inches off the bed, a high speed crash in to a wall is still gonna mash you. Then you have the idiots who spend the whole thread stating they would never handle their spiders etc etc and then getting their backs up when someone offends their friends.


Something like that anyway... :whistling2:


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

rach w said:


> i could close it myself .....but i put it up and though its caused a right debate and flaming session by "the gods" other people might like to post...and who am i to stop them :2thumb:


Sorry hun I forgot you can close threads yourself, quite right though it would be great if "the gods" would drop the attitude but that's just my opinion :2thumb:


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

i don't hold any of mine anymore because they're stupid and tend to run away.. well, not stupid. but yeah

i hold some spiderlings when they come out, because i like holding them  

if you want to hold a spider, go for it. it's only yourself and your own spider you're gonna risk. don't let anybody tell you to not hold it, unless it's an OBT.. if you were stupid enough to hold something like that lol


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

kris74 said:


> It doesn't matter a jot really. What irks people is that this question gets brought up all the time with the exact same responses. They ask an opinion so an opinion is given, so say nay and some say yay then the yay sayers get narked at the nay sayers because they don't want to be told what to do, the nay sayers get narked because their point is usually valid and generally has the best interests of the spider in mind and couldn't care a toss if the handler gets bitten but this isn't enough. It always ends up with the person willing to risk the pets, who they say they love so much and are fascinated by, life by handling and risking the bite which is pretty inevitable and then reacting by slinging it against the wall. Whether you are 3 foot or 3 inches off the bed, a high speed crash in to a wall is still gonna mash you. Then you have the idiots who spend the whole thread stating they would never handle their spiders etc etc and then getting their backs up when someone offends their friends.
> 
> 
> Something like that anyway... :whistling2:


More the annoyance i have with this is thread in paticular is that it didnt ask about handling or not just help as they decided what they wanted to do.
If you ask for help for something i think its unfair that people pick on a point that wasnt what was in question.


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

spinnin_tom said:


> i don't hold any of mine anymore because they're stupid and tend to run away.. well, not stupid. but yeah
> 
> i hold some spiderlings when they come out, because i like holding them
> 
> if you want to hold a spider, go for it. it's only yourself and your own spider you're gonna risk. don't let anybody tell you to not hold it, unless it's an OBT.. if you were stupid enough to hold something like that lol


If your stupid enough to stand in traffic then feel free :devil:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Right, people say that the danger to the spider is you may shake it off and injure/kill it. Never mind what happens to you, lets focus on the animal right?

Hamsters are not born tame. They have to go through a taming process. They can and will bite. They have extremely long teeth for their size and will bite down to the gums. Its is much more painful than a bee sting and they often hang on, not letting go.

Now, why is it more acceptable to risk injury to a rodent or snake via involuntary shaking, than it is to a spider? Seriously, this arguement needs to be applied to all animals with the potential to bite so next time you anti handlers see a handling thread in the rodent, snake or shelled section I hope ur going to jump in and wish ill on them to 'teach them a lesson'. Because its unfair to save this lecture just for the t keepers when all animals are at risk of injury during a handling session.

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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> More the annoyance i have with this is thread in paticular is that it didnt ask about handling or not just help as they decided what they wanted to do.
> If you ask for help for something i think its unfair that people pick on a point that wasnt what was in question.


What, so you think people who don't advocate handling should at least tell someone who wants to handle the easiest way to put their pet in the line of fire?

If you read the post you will she that the answers are already there and she is just asking confirmation on the best way to do it. How many ways are there to ultimately poke a spider on to your hand?

And for Alisa, When I got in to spiders there was no internet, I bought 3 books and went from there and had no issues.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> If your stupid enough to stand in traffic then feel free :devil:


okay : victory:



kris74 said:


> What, so you think people who don't advocate handling should at least tell someone who wants to handle the easiest way to put their pet in the line of fire?
> 
> If you read the post you will she that the answers are already there and she is just asking confirmation on the best way to do it. How many ways are there to ultimately poke a spider on to your hand?
> 
> And for Alisa, When I got in to spiders there was no internet, I bought 3 books and went from there and had no issues.


book ? what's that ?


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> *And for Alisa*, When I got in to spiders there was no internet, I bought 3 books and went from there and had no issues.


For who?? :whistling2:


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> For who?? :whistling2:


for alisa.. 
keep up.

i'm actually lost here, i skipped the middle pages


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

spinnin_tom said:


> book ? what's that ?


In my best scouse accent "Exactly"

You're too young to remember that one like


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

kris74 said:


> In my best scouse accent "Exactly"
> 
> You're too young to remember that one like


actually. i took out a few reptile books from the library and they have a lot more information that a lot of "teh internetz" has. i go on practical stuff though, if i hold a spider and it seems stressed, i won't hold it again. 

i hold the snakes, so why would i need to hold the spiders ?


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> What, so you think people who don't advocate handling should at least tell someone who wants to handle the easiest way to put their pet in the line of fire?
> 
> If you read the post you will she that the answers are already there and she is just asking confirmation on the best way to do it. How many ways are there to ultimately poke a spider on to your hand?
> 
> And for Alisa, When I got in to spiders there was no internet, I bought 3 books and went from there and had no issues.





spinnin_tom said:


> for alisa..
> keep up.
> 
> i'm actually lost here, i skipped the middle pages


I am keeping up but I also make the effort to get peoples names right :devil:

God forbid any new keepers ask for advice :whistling2:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

You know you could injure ur snake if it bites you and you shake it off. So you shouldn't handle it.

For arguements sake, just sayin'

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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

kris74 said:


> What, so you think people who don't advocate handling should at least tell someone who wants to handle the easiest way to put their pet in the line of fire?
> 
> If you read the post you will she that the answers are already there and she is just asking confirmation on the best way to do it. How many ways are there to ultimately poke a spider on to your hand?
> 
> And for Alisa, When I got in to spiders there was no internet, I bought 3 books and went from there and had no issues.


Should people who dont belive in god have it barked at them all day?

I agree it might seem like a silly question, but the internet is full of them :lol2:


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## DannyB (Nov 8, 2009)

I cant really be bothered to read through 11 pages of this, feeling a bit lazy tonight lol, and lets be honest, im pretty sure i can guess where this thread has gone 'no you shouldnt hold one, yes you should, no you shouldnt, yes you should etc etc'

But i think that you should hold one on your terms for the first time, because there is a chance that eventually one is going to run up the tongs, or up and out over the wall and end up on your hand (at best!), and this is not the ideal time to be experiencing having a tarantula on you for the first time.


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> I am keeping up but I also make the effort to get peoples names right :devil:
> 
> God forbid any new keepers ask for advice :whistling2:


that's internet for you.
you ask a large group of people face-to-face and they'll be helpful, but because the internet gives anonaminity (however that's spelled lol) people gang up. It's proven or something


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> You know you could injure ur snake if it bites you and you shake it off. So you shouldn't handle it.
> 
> For arguements sake, just sayin'
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


yeah, but i've learned to expect bites from certain snakes and i think other keepers know their snakes personalities. if i get bit, ii leave them to it unless my fingers are at risk of being snake food, because unlike spiders, snakes aren't venomous (the ones i keep, i mean)


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

kris74 said:


> In my best scouse accent "Exactly"
> 
> You're too young to remember that one like


I think that point is a bit unfair too.
Im not illiterate but i have some truoble making myself read through a book.
I prefer asking questions about the points i might be confused about and getting straight to the point.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

spinnin_tom said:


> that's internet for you.
> you ask a large group of people face-to-face and they'll be helpful, but because the internet gives anonaminity (however that's spelled lol) people gang up. It's proven or something


Well Tom as I said I wonder how certain people managed when they just started out with spiders................oh wait it was the dark ages and they used books, no internet :lol2:


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

spinnin_tom said:


> yeah, but i've learned to expect bites from certain snakes and i think other keepers know their snakes personalities. if i get bit, ii leave them to it unless my fingers are at risk of being snake food, because unlike spiders, snakes aren't venomous (the ones i keep, i mean)


I know  I reckon most keepers know their spiders personality & the ones to expect bites from too but they still get lectured about handling in regards to the spiders safety. The same arguement applies to all animals, venomous or not, yet I only ever see the T keepers getting grief for this.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Well Tom as I said I wonder how certain people managed when they just started out with spiders................oh wait it was the dark ages and they used books, no internet :lol2:


i pictured amish people.. only because my mum confused jews with the amish earlier.

people don't manage, they get moaned at. i moan a lot, but that's because i'm pretty much a moany person.

i'm not so narky in person, promise.

i think a lot of the knowledge comes from friends who keep spiders, then they tell a friend and buy one, then they get friends interested and so on.


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

spinnin_tom said:


> i pictured amish people.. only because my mum confused jews with the amish earlier.
> 
> people don't manage, they get moaned at. i moan a lot, but that's because i'm pretty much a moany person.
> 
> ...


I dont like the 'search nazis' that have been popping up latly.
You cant ask a question any more without someone jumping down your throat.


----------



## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> I dont like the 'search nazis' that have been popping up latly.
> You cant ask a question any more without someone jumping down your throat.


what's that ?

*newb asks question*
'Search for it, there's plenty of results'
*i have, i want your views though*
'tough'

am i on the ball ?


----------



## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

RandomDan said:


> I dont like the 'search nazis' that have been popping up latly.
> You cant ask a question any more without someone jumping down your throat.


Tell me about it!

But ill post anyway, its what forums are for, if they dont like it, their problem, not mine. Leave the help and newbie section and go dictate somewhere else 

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

spinnin_tom said:


> what's that ?
> 
> *newb asks question*
> 'Search for it, there's plenty of results'
> ...


What makes it worse is that if you search for something now all your going to get is lots of threads say 'use the seach function newb!'


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> I dont like the 'search nazis' that have been popping up latly.
> You cant ask a question any more without someone jumping down your throat.


Exactly!!!
They seem to forget they were once beginners too and there's always someone who insists on jumping down your throat which can sometimes put people of asking for advice or it can make people choosy about who they take their advice from.


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

AilsaM said:


> Exactly!!!
> They seem to forget they were once beginners too and there's always someone who insists on jumping down your throat which can sometimes put people of asking for advice or it can make people choosy about who they take their advice from.


It can make people lose faith in the hobby too which is sad too really


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I want to know who made it the law to use google first. Come on! Show yourself...

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> What makes it worse is that if you search for something now all your going to get is lots of threads say 'use the seach function newb!'


i can't be bothered with the search, i'll search for specific things like i was trying to find photos of baja cape kingsnakes (i have one and like nobody else knows if there's any females) so i search that, then i have to wait to search again


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

RandomDan said:


> It can make people lose faith in the hobby too which is sad too really


It can, if you let it, personally I have a good friend (from here) I'd sooner ask questions than post on here if am stuck with something about my T's.


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I search for care sheets but if I cant find the answers I need then ill ask.

They need to remember that google is just another option for information, it is no more or less useful than forums or experienced shop keepers and people dont HAVE to use it if they don't want to.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## spinnin_tom (Apr 20, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> I search for care sheets but if I cant find the answers I need then ill ask.
> 
> They need to remember that google is just another option for information, it is no more or less useful than forums or experienced shop keepers and people dont HAVE to use it if they don't want to.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


people ask a question about future snakes then get moaned at for not doing research. what's asking a question ? 
:lol2:


----------



## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

spinnin_tom said:


> i can't be bothered with the search, i'll search for specific things like i was trying to find photos of baja cape kingsnakes (i have one and like nobody else knows if there's any females) so i search that, then i have to wait to search again


I think it still has its uses, like for for picture or sale threads.
The phrase is 'its like rocking horse S:censor:'



AilsaM said:


> It can, if you let it, personally I have a good friend (from here) I'd sooner ask questions than post on here if am stuck with something about my T's.


Im not saying its does in all cases but it doesnt help peoples confidence.



babyjo84 said:


> I search for care sheets but if I cant find the answers I need then ill ask.
> 
> They need to remember that google is just another option for information, it is no more or less useful than forums or experienced shop keepers and people dont HAVE to use it if they don't want to.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


I find that half the stuff on google is crap anyway, the reason i ask things on here is that i want info from sources i trust.


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

snowgoose said:


> I am one of those "tarantulas aren't to be handled" types, and can honestly say, I have never deliberately held any tarantula. I just don't feel the need or desire to.
> 
> Exactly what experience does handling give you if it's only the once and you are never going to do it again?


The same thing that most humans get the awesome awestruck moment, it's why people swim with dolphins, or handfeeding that goat at the petting zoo, it just appeals innately.
You find that this don't hold snobbery is a mainly a British thing, and it is like any thing, it is learnt, because it is has been the line for a long time and oft repeated.
I used to hold my T's at first out of that awestruck feeling now I only pick them up/hold when I need to.
And before you say there is no need, I mean when I am moving, rehousing taking a photo' what ever, I find it easier to do so and I couldn't give a toss who says other wise.
You'll wont find many amoung the naysayers who haven't held a tarantula or snake at least once.


----------



## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I agree, the problem with google is a lot of ur info comes from newbies posing as experienced keepers.

But to be honest, in here, some experienced keepers are so rude in the way they deliver their 'help' its not even worth asking them.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> It can, if you let it, personally I have a good friend (from here) I'd sooner ask questions than post on here if am stuck with something about my T's.


Bwahahahaha, that's a joke right?


----------



## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> I agree, the problem with google is a lot of ur info comes from newbies posing as experienced keepers.
> 
> But to be honest, in here, some experienced keepers are so rude in the way they deliver their 'help' its not even worth asking them.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


They forget things like tact and manners, bet they wouldn't speak to someone face to face like that.

If they thought about what they were wanting to say they could put their advice forward in a friendly way in which someone who's learning about T's would appreciate.


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> so its purely for selfish reasons then?


ERM yes.
Why do you keep tarantulas? 
For the tarantulas beifit?
For the benefit of humkind?
Or purely for your own reasons?


----------



## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

kris74 said:


> Bwahahahaha, that's a joke right?


No why :devil:

I don't always post on here when I need to ask for advice on something.


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

so from simply pointing out that handling isn't needed we now have a thread on mannerisms?


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Stelios said:


> ERM yes.
> Why do you keep tarantulas?
> For the tarantulas beifit?
> For the benefit of humkind?
> Or purely for your own reasons?


I made this point too, but it got shot down, expect it to be shot down again. Though I agree with you 

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

RandomDan said:


> What makes it worse is that if you search for something now all your going to get is lots of threads say 'use the seach function newb!'


You tried Arachnoboards yet? 



babyjo84 said:


> I want to know who made it the law to use google first. Come on! Show yourself...


Delia Smith?


----------



## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

I've had my giggle, I'm leaving this now....


----------



## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

snowgoose said:


> so from simply pointing out that handling isn't needed we now have a thread on mannerisms?


And your point is?

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Stelios said:


> ERM yes.
> Why do you keep tarantulas?


scientific research mainly



Stelios said:


> For the tarantulas beifit?


if you mean benefit (just to clarify) i guess you could say that, in essence



Stelios said:


> For the benefit of humkind?


there may be something that comes out of the research, so possibly



Stelios said:


> Or purely for your own reasons?


yep


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

mcluskyisms said:


> You tried Arachnoboards yet?


That involves going to another forum and finding out who is knowledgeable and who isnt and i had gotten used to it here!

I just hoped people wernt so argumentative.

Im also going to abandon this thread now as it will probably turn into a bitchfest.


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## RandomDan (Oct 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> scientific research mainly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to say i like how you are sinking to the level of bitcheyness.
You started off so well!


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> And your point is?
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


Really?

Really??

Really???

My point is

*HANDLING IS NOT NEEDED NOR ADVISED*


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

mcluskyisms said:


> Delia Smith?


you know better than to dis da Delia in my presence! 

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

RandomDan said:


> I have to say i like how you are sinking to the level of bitcheyness.
> You started off so well!


he asked


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

snowgoose said:


> Really?
> 
> Really??
> 
> ...


Yeah really.

I mean the point about it turning into a thread about mannerisms. Seems to me like its back on topic 

You made that other point about 8 pages ago.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## snowgoose (May 5, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> Yeah really.
> 
> I mean the point about it turning into a thread about mannerisms. Seems to me like its back on topic
> 
> ...


Right, I've said enough, if you want to continue this conversation, feel free to PM me.


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> what i suggest is that these people practice with a stapler first and see their own reaction to a possible bite, just to make sure that the spider wont be harmed through any involuntary reaction should it happen
> 
> this way no venom is injected, so no problem with anaphylaxis, just the mechanical damage and pain inflicted by the actual bite
> 
> size 10 staples should do for an average


When I was about 8 my gerbil got out and the cat got it, I rescued it it bit the end of my finger straight through the nail and it wouldn't let go.
I didn't shake it off, I carried it and let in the cage and left my hand in there for a bloody long time until it felt safe enough to let go.
I haven't got size 10 staples but normal ones will do.
























Not every one is the same.


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## geckodelta (Dec 11, 2008)

Stelios said:


> When I was about 8 my gerbil got out and the cat got it, I rescued it it bit the end of my finger straight through the nail and it wouldn't let go.
> I didn't shake it off, I carried it and let in the cage and left my hand in there for a bloody long time until it felt safe enough to let go.
> I haven't got size 10 staples but normal ones will do.
> image
> ...


You crazy man,
I love you. 
:lol2:


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## empirecook (Sep 1, 2009)

babyjo84 said:


> And like ive said, I could be allergic to anything but im not going to avoid everything 'just incase'.


Allergic to Latex?

If you don't know, lets find out. :whistling2: (You cannot say no, because you've already said that you're not going to avoid everything)


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> he asked


So you are a scientist?
You don't breed and sell?
All you T's are involved in study/experiments? 
Published alot of your findings?
I am not bohooing you Steve you are an eminent and well respected figure in the tarantula keeping hobby, but that argument of they get nothing from it and it is purely your own selfish personal reason argument doesn't wash
and is not valid.
The dangers yes but not that old chestnut sorry!


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Stelios said:


> When I was about 8 my gerbil got out and the cat got it, I rescued it it bit the end of my finger straight through the nail and it wouldn't let go.
> I didn't shake it off, I carried it and let in the cage and left my hand in there for a bloody long time until it felt safe enough to let go.
> I haven't got size 10 staples but normal ones will do.
> image
> ...


PMSL does he have permission to handle a t now?

God damn that cracked me up...how did you go about this? Did you log on, see the post, thought '**** it' and grabbed the stapler? Either way, legendary haha!

Cant beat a random stapling sesh on a Monday night.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

I have no real desire to hold my spiders, I'm happy to just watch them. Too risky! But thats just me!


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## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

lol Michael,

What a lot of people have to respect that the (lets say) older keepers didnt have the internet, nor the luxury of asking a lot of people at any on time for their advice.

Research should be done, backed up in any post and then questions to follow.

As far as the handling is concearned i say let them hold it, if they react to a bite by flicking the spider 4 foot in the air then on their heads be it. I for one wont as i do actually like my spiders alive... You CANT compare T's to any other animal youve held, kept or seen in a show as a T will show no signs of anger/distress (apart from the odd flick or threat) everyone knows when to handle a snake and when not to, same for other animals, a T doesnt think, it reacts based on instinct (stop humanising Tarantulas)

Why is this section being constantly referered to as "the help section" this isn't nor will it ever be the help section, that section is on the main page of this forum

(sorry for any spelling mistake, keep forgetting this forum is full of english scholars)


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## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

Stelios said:


> So you are a scientist?
> You don't breed and sell?
> All you T's are involved in study/experiments?
> Published alot of your findings?
> ...


What do they get from it?

P.s nothing against you or anything, just dont understand what they would get from us holding them, again, its not like a dog or cat that enjoys human interaction, for all the T knows, when we enter its solitude we are threats (until the actual handling, then it just thinks we are a big tree)


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

ojo said:


> Why is this section being constantly referered to as "the help section" this isn't nor will it ever be the help section, that section is on the main page of this forum


If you look up the top of the screen it says "Help and Chat > Spiders and inverts" so it clearly says HELP AND CHAT :whistling2:


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

ojo said:


> lol Michael,
> 
> What a lot of people have to respect that the (lets say) older keepers didnt have the internet, nor the luxury of asking a lot of people at any on time for their advice.
> 
> ...


Don't talk rubbish, you know when a snake shouldn't be handled?
Exactly the same for T's if it is agitated or throwing a wobbler than don't handle simples, but still you will never know if you could get tagged out of the blue by a snake or a T.
My mate was showing me his corn snake that he always handled it bite him and he involuntary nearly flicked it out the window.
The same goes for snakes as for T's.
They get nothing from being held/ we do.
They both could be hurt if dropped obviously the snake less so.
They can both bite with out warning.


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

to be honest i never said 'don't do it' i just said beware of the risks and posted some of the more valid ones 

no, i am not a scientist, but i have worked for more than one research facility on a few projects in the past and at the moment i'm working on something under my own steam.
yes i do breed spiders, yes i do sell them, for less than market value and keep back progeny for my own projects.
yes, all of what i own is involved to one extent or another.

and, again, no, i never said 'they dont get anything from it' i made a point as to the reasons given by someone else 

whether someone holds or doesnt hold i really dont care one way or the other, but its only fair to make the choice an informed one dont you think? to have all the information to hand


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

ojo said:


> What do they get from it?
> 
> P.s nothing against you or anything, just dont understand what they would get from us holding them, again, its not like a dog or cat that enjoys human interaction, for all the T knows, when we enter its solitude we are threats (until the actual handling, then it just thinks we are a big tree)


I never said that they get any thing from it? Where did I say that?


----------



## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> If you look up the top of the screen it says "Help and Chat > Spiders and inverts" so it clearly says HELP AND CHAT :whistling2:


It says that in every sub-forum (minus the off-topic subs) the help section is located at the very top of the main reptile forums page, and thats where most of the help is given, the sub forums are in part where some help is given, but most of it is just the general "chat"


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## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

Stelios said:


> I never said that they get any thing from it? Where did I say that?


must have misread your post to Steve wrong then mate sorry, thought thats what you meant by "the old chestnut"


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

ojo said:


> It says that in every sub-forum (minus the off-topic subs) the help section is located at the very top of the main reptile forums page, and thats where most of the help is given, the sub forums are in part where some help is given, but most of it is just the general "chat"


So your referring to the newbie section and all us newbie T keepers should just post there?


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Damn it, why did u have to quote him, I was happy in the comfort of my ignore function.

As for your 'you have to research, back up, then ask questions' post....says who?! Who says we have to do this? You? Who the hell are you? A mod? Admin? The founder of google? God?!

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## empirecook (Sep 1, 2009)

*Fao babyjo*

Proof that Experience helps:

Steve was EXPERIENCED with these:








And never had any major/life threatening injuries (Not that I know of anyway)

But when he came in contact with something he was LESS experienced with:








He died. :whistling2:


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## Stelios (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> to be honest i never said 'don't do it' i just said beware of the risks and posted some of the more valid ones
> 
> no, i am not a scientist, but i have worked for more than one research facility on a few projects in the past and at the moment i'm working on something under my own steam.
> yes i do breed spiders, yes i do sell them, for less than market value and keep back progeny for my own projects.
> ...


Yep that is a better post, make them aware and let them make an informed decision.
Nothing wrong with highlighting the dangers and pit falls, but half the post on here weren't like that were they?
These arguments about handling tend to get entrenched.


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## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> So your referring to the newbie section and all us newbie T keepers should just post there?


I never said that at all, i said thats that place your most likely to get answers without someone having a go. I never said thats where everyone should post until they have a grasp of the hobby.

lol quite funny that she has blocked me, but in some cases sad, her arguments were funny, but sad how she always thought she was the know all and end all. Despite the fact she cant see it, ill say this anyway, Im no-one of your concearn. I said it because thats what you should do when entering a new hobby, job, gym, ANYTHING. RESEARCH, do a bit more research, and then speak.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

ojo said:


> I never said that at all, i said thats that place your most likely to get answers without someone having a go. I never said thats where everyone should post until they have a grasp of the hobby.
> 
> *lol quite funny that she has blocked me, but in some cases sad, her arguments were funny, but sad how she always thought she was the know all and end all*.


Perhaps she blocked you for a good reason, I know I would think twice about accepting advice from yourself, no offence, basing this on what you said about the substrate I'm using for my T's which was, to be blunt, rubbish and made me panic until I spoke to some other people who reassured me.


----------



## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

Think what you want, but as my advice had valid points to it, i stand by it


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

I blocked you cos you think you own this forum and im not taking orders from you.

I'll post what I like, where I like, within the forum rules and if u dont like it. Tough flibble.

Hopefully you wont be quoted again because your search Nazi drivel is wearing thin.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## ojo (Jun 8, 2011)

babyjo84 said:


> I blocked you cos you think you own this forum and im not taking orders from you.
> 
> I'll post what I like, where I like, within the forum rules and if u dont like it. Tough flibble.
> 
> On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


:lol2: thats the end of my envolvement on this thread, going to be holding my sides for hours :2thumb: cheered my Monday up, have a :no1:


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## mcluskyisms (Jan 24, 2010)

Seriously folks...










End of the day, it gets dark...

On a more serious note though, some folks don't like to handle their tarantulas whereas some folks do, I handle the odd one now and then that may stroll out if I feel comfortable enough to do so. I could get bitten, I'm fully aware of that. I'm also fully aware of the dangers to the tarantula but as long as you take these factors into consideration then do what you like.

Just don't go killing you tarantulas and posting about it on the forum otherwise you is gonna get flamed.


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

mcluskyisms said:


> Seriously folks...
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Sense has been spoken.

Calm has been restored 

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

Seems to me there's a lot of attack on those people who give advice, because its not delivered in the appropriate manner to people who defend their own opinions without a full understanding of the subject.
I think that's rather sad, because quite frankly it deters those with knowledge from sharing it. Worse still it perpetuates the ill-informed.
To learn we must listen, if we only listen to the comments we wish to hear our knowledge will be quite restricted.


----------



## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

Poxicator said:


> Seems to me there's a lot of attack on those people who give advice, because its not delivered in the appropriate manner to people who defend their own opinions without a full understanding of the subject.
> I think that's rather sad, because quite frankly it deters those with knowledge from sharing it. Worse still it perpetuates the ill-informed.
> To learn we must listen, if we only listen to the comments we wish to hear our knowledge will be quite restricted.


The thread should've been locked with that as a final word, poignant words late in the day...!


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## babyjo84 (Feb 27, 2012)

Poxicator said:


> Seems to me there's a lot of attack on those people who give advice, because its not delivered in the appropriate manner to people who defend their own opinions without a full understanding of the subject.
> I think that's rather sad, because quite frankly it deters those with knowledge from sharing it. Worse still it perpetuates the ill-informed.
> To learn we must listen, if we only listen to the comments we wish to hear our knowledge will be quite restricted.


My heart bleeds for them. They attack people all the time about research, care mistskes etc so they need to be able to take it if they're going to dish it out.

Why should they be allowed to attack people but nobody is allowed to attack them? Just because they have experience? Since when did experience give anybody the right to be slight with people? You can share your experience without being downright rude and nasty.

On teh interwebz using Tapatalkz!


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

TBH as a newbie (or wannabe newbie) to the spider world, I'd think twice about posting here for advice now after reading this.

It's not the message (because I personally agree about not handling), it's how it's delivered. If you are patronising, rude or plain old aggro, people aren't going to listen to you.

There are people who have posted on this thread who I KNOW have tonnes of knowledge, but absolutely no people skills, some so holier than thou I wouldn't want to listen to them if they tried. If they get so wound up helping people, why post at all?

I'll post my questions on a different spider forum...


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

tbh honest LisaQ I think that's quite the contrary. Have a read again and you'll find a hell of a lot of derogatory phrases not from the people helping but from the people they are trying to help.
Quite where in the thread are people being attacked, please show me.
What I can see are the "God" like resemblance, the "snobbery" descriptions and accusations of being "nasty" and "rude". 
I'd be really interested in seeing someone substantiate those claims.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I didn't say anyone was attacked, I did however say that the intended tone in the posts of the spider "experts" is patronising and condescending.

Again, I agree with the message, just think some people need to work on how they deliver it.

Ps. There's an L in my name.


----------



## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

What's the big deal even if you get bitten by a T, it's not like it's venom has any potency to it. Unless you have an allergic reaction of course, but that can happen with anything. 

If someone is going to handle it, over their bed for the first time - its not really a big deal is it. 

I don't keep them by the way, scare the hell out of me would rather be in a room with a King Cobra. But just think its silly for people to say you shouldn't handle them.


----------



## Artisan (Mar 27, 2011)

i wasn't going to comment on here again but i just felt i had to as its got so out of hand.

i wanted to make it clear why i asked the question in the first place. It was because i wanted to to hold my tarantulas once, maybe a couple of times throughout their long and healthy, mostly unbothered lives, of course I've done my reseach on this matter...as stated in my opening post i said i knew they didn't need it /like it etc and it would be purely for my own benefit of doing it if only for the one time just to see what it was like. i don't see this as a major risk as I'm sure every spider owner when they first started out is guilty of doing exactly as i did yesterday....and hold a spider for possibly the first and only time just to see what it was like. Even if you never did it again after weighing up the risks involved through the spider falling (though i did it on my bed) or being bitten themselves.
All the precautions were taken for the spiders safety and i took the risk of handling - knowing i could possibly get a bite but overall there was no risk to the spider at all.
Its not as if I've stormed into this thread stating "wow I've got a spider and I'm going to hold it everyday and i don't care if it i get bit or the spider falls, I'm even going to stand up when handling, so if the spider falls, its going to land on my hard floor" 
i took every precaution for the spiders welfare and as said...none of them will be handled as a regular thing as i DID do my reseach. Just thought it was unfair that people assumed i was going to get them out all the time.
My first priority when it comes to my pets is to ensure they are cared for properly and not put under any undue stress or risk to their health.
Just wanted to clear that up and didn't want a simple question to turn into a total slanging match between everyone. Of course people should listen to those with more experience, that's how we learn as new keepers but also them that know should not be so aggressive in their answers and assume the people asking these questions are total idiots. As said....you were new once and learnt as you googled/read books/asked questions. The hobby is hard enough and people in it should gang together to make it better as a whole rather then just ganging up on eachother.

PEACE OUT PEOPLE and may you and your pets live long and happy lives : victory:


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

nsn89 said:


> What's the big deal even if you get bitten by a T, it's not like it's venom has any potency to it. Unless you have an allergic reaction of course, but that can happen with anything.


so you've not heard about pokies, arboreal baboons, or haplopelma's, then? all of them have bites with venom that has a great deal of potency, can put you in hospital, & have long-lasting painful effects that can take weeks to recover from. & all t bites will be painful.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> so you've not heard about pokies, arboreal baboons, or haplopelma's, then? all of them have bites with venom that has a great deal of potency, can put you in hospital, & have long-lasting painful effects that can take weeks to recover from. & all t bites will be painful.


Maybe painful, but not really life threatening from what I can see. 

Especially with the more commonly kept T's, they are hardly going to do any damage to you at all.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

nsn89 said:


> Maybe painful, but not really life threatening from what I can see.
> 
> Especially with the more commonly kept T's, they are hardly going to do any damage to you at all.


you're kidding!:gasp: all of the ones i mentioned can put you in hospital, not just hurt! & pokies are commonly kept, & they have the most dangerous bites, along with arboreal baboons- h. macs, & obts, & featherlegs all have medically significant bites, with cardiac & respiratory effects.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> you're kidding!:gasp: all of the ones i mentioned can put you in hospital, not just hurt! & pokies are commonly kept, & they have the most dangerous bites, along with arboreal baboons- h. macs, & obts, & featherlegs all have medically significant bites, with cardiac & respiratory effects.


Any recorded deaths?


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> Maybe painful, but not really life threatening from what I can see.
> 
> Especially with the more commonly kept T's, they are hardly going to do any damage to you at all.


How would you know? Not being rude but do you keep T's?


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> How would you know? Not being rude but do you keep T's?


No, I stated that above. But I have friends that have been bitten by theirs.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

nsn89 said:


> Any recorded deaths?


no- but many hospital cases, including some close calls (one or two resulting in respirators). all of the t's i've mentioned will knock you down & ruin your week, let alone day- none of them will just hurt.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> No, I stated that above. But I have friends that have been bitten by theirs.


And were they any of the spiders stated above? I'm a beginner and even I know how potent their venom is though it's only from reading I've learned this.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> no- but many hospital cases, including some close calls (one or two resulting in respirators). all of the t's i've mentioned will knock you down & ruin your week, let alone day- none of them will just hurt.


Well if it's not life threatening its not a big deal in my opinion. The close calls may have been to a allergic reaction.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> And were they any of the spiders stated above? I'm a beginner and even I know how potent their venom is though it's only from reading I've learned this.


Not any of the ones Wilkins stated. So potent that it kills people on a regular basis..it may be potent I don't know, but it's not really a threat your life or it can't produce enough venom.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> Not any of the ones Wilkins stated. So potent that it kills people on a regular basis..it may be potent I don't know, but it's not really a threat your life or it can't produce enough venom.


So you don't consider cardiac and respitory effects life threatening? Both of these are extremely life threatening if you don't get to a hospital in time - cardiac arrest, respitory failure etc etc.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> So you don't consider cardiac and respitory effects life threatening? Both of these are extremely life threatening if you don't get to a hospital in time - cardiac arrest, respitory failure etc etc.


So you think that everyone that's been bitten by a tarantula has had time to go to a hospital? When they might be in a jungle etc? No. 

People actually die from wasps every year, I'd be more wary of a wasp than a T.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

nsn89 said:


> Well if it's not life threatening its not a big deal in my opinion. The close calls may have been to a allergic reaction.


put it this way- nobody bitten by the ones i've covered, has wanted to ever repeat the experience. & up to a month off work with a semi-paralysed arm or hand, is hardly what i'd call not a big deal.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> So you think that everyone that's been bitten by a tarantula has had time to go to a hospital? When they might be in a jungle etc? No.
> 
> People actually die from wasps every year, I'd be more wary of a wasp than a T.


Well I tell you if I kept any of the spiders mentioned and I was bitten by one of them, the next place I would be going is hospital.

My next spider is going to be a P. Cambridgei, I know their venom is potent, I know they are very very fast, it will be my first time having an arboreal spiderling, I am inexperienced and she may bite me as I move her into her new home but I am fully prepared with what I should expect and I know to definately not underestimate these spiders.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

wilkinss77 said:


> put it this way- nobody bitten by the ones i've covered, has wanted to ever repeat the experience. & up to a month off work with a semi-paralysed arm or hand, is hardly what i'd call not a big deal.


Links to some evidence? Genuinely interested, could be down to a reaction to the venom.


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Well I tell you if I kept any of the spiders mentioned and I was bitten by one of them, the next place I would be going is hospital.
> 
> My next spider is going to be a P. Cambridgei, I know their venom is potent, I know they are very very fast, it will be my first time having an arboreal spiderling, I am inexperienced and she may bite me as I move her into her new home but I am fully prepared with what I should expect and I know to definately not underestimate these spiders.


You may, as a precaution, but you aren't going to panic like if you were bitten by a venomous snake. 

If there are no recorded deaths, I don't know what the whole 'you shouldn't handle them' is all about. Especially with less 'potent' tarantulas, as long as you don't hurt the animal it's ok.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> *You may, as a precaution, but you aren't going to panic like if you were bitten by a venomous snake.*
> 
> If there are no recorded deaths, I don't know what the whole 'you shouldn't handle them' is all about. Especially with less 'potent' tarantulas, as long as you don't hurt the animal it's ok.


Actually yes I would be panicing if I was bitten by a spider with potent venom!


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Actually yes I would be panicing if I was bitten by a spider with potent venom!


I didn't say spider, I know full well what damage a Brown Recluse can do etc.


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> I didn't say spider, I know full well what damage a Brown Recluse can do etc.


Am sure you do


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Well I am talking about spiders because this is the spider section. If you want to discuss snake venom why not move to the snake section and do it.


Lol, didn't realise the topic was about handling widows, recluses, funnel webs...


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

nsn89 said:


> Lol, didn't realise the topic was about handling widows, recluses, funnel webs...


Well I apologise :lol2:
Those spiders were not mentioned though, were they?


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## nsn89 (Jun 11, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> Well I apologise :lol2:
> Those spiders were not mentioned though, were they?


I think you got confused with what I said lol.

When I said, I wasn't talking about spider, I meant spiders as a whole as I was specifically talking about T's. Not including spiders such as the recluse etc.


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## Poxicator (Nov 14, 2007)

nsn89, If all you are concerned about is whether the tarantula has toxic venom or not, completely disregarding other factors, then I can assure you there's no danger to yourself by getting bitten by a tarantula.
All those who wish to know more, please have a read of the bite reports on many forums. RobC's account of a P. ornate bite which can be found on YouTube, Arachnoboards and other sources is a good indication. Some of the bite reports in the BTS journal are also worth a read and the report from Andrew Smith concerning the bite on location, from S. calceatum is particularly disturbing.


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## Lord Vetinari (Mar 4, 2011)

Stelios said:


> *Don't talk rubbish, you know when a snake shouldn't be handled?*
> Exactly the same for T's if it is agitated or throwing a wobbler than don't handle simples, but still you will never know if you could get tagged out of the blue by a snake or a T.
> *My mate was showing me his corn snake that he always handled it bite him and he involuntary nearly flicked it out the window.*
> The same goes for snakes as for T's.
> ...


Actually with experience 90% of the time you can. Snakes have pretty clear body language - you can see when they tense and go into 'flight or fight' mode. If you know the snake you know which of those choices its most likely to make... You should hear the hiss my malagasy makes when its fed up... its very bloody clear that I should put it back right the hell now... 

I am willing to bet the reason he got bit is because he was showing off and wasn't paying as much attention as he should have been and missed the classic threat signs.... Same with most bites - people get over confident with something they feel safe with - then BAM!.... 

The other 10% is just when they are being mardy buggers.... welcome to keeping non-domestic animals. If you handle that 10% will catch up with you; it just becomes a matter of probability. 

The only time I can guarentee I won't be bitten when something is safely away in its enclosure. I like that status quo. 

If you want to handle T's then thats fine. Personally I don't think its worth the risk.


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## Baldpoodle (Apr 18, 2007)

Poxicator said:


> I wouldnt know 100% but from what Ive read on here before, its not possible to be allergic to tarantula venom, and its also been argued that its impossible to have an anaphylactic shock.


This is my understanding also. Because the make up of tarantula venom does not consist of protein so you can not get an allergic reaction from it. It is very very very rare to get an immune responce (this is what an allergic reaction is) from something that is non protein.



[email protected] said:


> *because with spiders they inject venom! and the chances of being allergic to the complex proteins are much much higher than, say cheerios or dog spit :lol2:*
> why is it so hard to grasp?
> 
> never mind, the thing is not IF it will happen, but WHEN...because it ALWAYS does...ALWAYS, it may be tomorrow, it may be in 10 years, but it will
> ...


Where this may be possible for some araneomorph spiders due to their different venom make up, this can not be said for tarantulas. In fact it it the other way around. You are far more likely to be allergic to dog spit Dog Saliva Allergy | eHow.com and Cheerios Does Cheerios® cereal contain allergens? than you ever will be towards tarantula venom.


However it is possible to have allergic reactions from tarantula hair.



nsn89 said:


> Any recorded deaths?


Yes. There is one reported death of a child of 5 that was bitten haplopelma huwenum.
There are also reported cases of coma and heart failure from bites from poecilotheria ornata and poecilotheria fasciata.

Because the peptides found in tarantula venom inhibit ion channels in our body , this causes the numbness and cramping you get from some bites and if a dose is big or strong enough it could kill you. (this is not saying any tarantulas bite is strong or big enough).

funny thread btw for us uneducated pork


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

Baldpoodle said:


> This is my understanding also. Because the make up of tarantula venom does not consist of protein so you can not get an allergic reaction from it. It is very very very rare to get an immune responce (this is what an allergic reaction is) from something that is non protein.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


unfortunately this is incorrect according to scientific documantation



> Tarantula venom hyaluronidase has been identified as a major constituent.


 which is itself a protein

ScienceDirect.com - Toxicon - Composition and properties of tarantula Dugesiella hentzi (Girard) venom
http://bioweb.usu.edu/taste/papers/gating%20chg%20K%20channel%20nature.pdf
Naturwissenschaften, Volume 76, Number 5 - SpringerLink
A membrane-access mechanism of ion channel inhibition by voltage sensor toxins from spider venom : Abstract : Nature
ScienceDirect.com - Neuron - An inhibitor of the Kv2.1 potassium channel isolated from the venom of a Chilean tarantula


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## 8and6 (Jan 19, 2010)

seeing as the topic has severely gone of track and the subject itself has been well and truly covered i think it better to close this


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