# Sticky  Breeding leo?s ~ a few thoughts



## SleepyD

*Breeding leo’s ~ a few thoughts*

There’s been numerous threads and posts/questions about breeding leo’s ~ how-to, when, what if, etc ~ so thought I’d post a few personal thoughts about this here ~ 

Time, Patience and Planning ~
All of these are needed ~ not only to choose leo’s carefully but also to research what is needed, what can go wrong, what is best to ensure not only healthy hatchlings but also to keep your leo’s in good health and time to get everything needed ready well in advance.

Q – Can I keep my male with my female all the time?
Males mature earlier then females ~ which is why I always recommend separating them before 4 months of age ~ and I recommend keeping them separated unless they’re the right age/weight and breeding is wanted and planned for ~ just because littl’jonboy hasn’t done anything to mildred yet don’t mean that sooner or later he won’t ~ he’ll eventually be ready but chances are she won’t be and nor will you; and on the same note no littl’jonboy won’t be all lonely because he’s not got a girlfriend or two to cuddle.

Q- How old and big does a female have to be?
As a general guide females should be in good health and a bare minimum of 12 months old (preferably older) and over 50g-55g in weight ~ however I feel that there are also other important points to think about too ~ buying a female hatched the year before doesn’t always guarantee that she is old enough nor does being ‘breeding’ weight mean they can be bred yet, also buying adult females at the start of a year/season doesn’t necessarily mean that they can be bred that same year/season ~ far better to wait a season, practise quarantine and patience and get the females up to optimum condition and health first ~ females don’t just need careful looking after *during* the breeding season i.e.: extra food, extra calcium requirements etc, but they also need time to build up *before* the breeding season. 
How a female is looked after before breeding can influence how well she does ~ breeding underweight, too young, ill, over-stressed, over-breeding, can all potentially lead to sometimes fatal problems not only with the female’s health but also with any eggs/hatchlings she may have. Depending on age and health a single female can lay in excess of eight clutches and it can and does take a lot out of her ~ be prepared to remove a male leo into a separate viv after he’s done the deed ~ males continually wanting to mate can stress a gravid female.
If you have more then one female again be prepared to keep them in their own vivs/tubs during the season ~ not all females will tolerate others especially when they’re gravid and competing for laying areas.

Q – When do I need to get the stuff ready for breeding?
If you haven’t bred before then take the time to read and research about it first ~ it can save a lot of hassle and problems later on.
Get everything ready in advance ~ incubators (whether home-made or bought), tubs/rubs for hatchlings along with bigger rubs as they grow, heat mats/strips, stats, thermometers, stacks and all the other bits that breeding entails ~ it all needs to be checked and ready beforehand not left till the last minute. Check round for a good livefood supplier who can supply regular orders ~ don’t just rely on a local shop ~ you don’t want to be in the position of running out of livefood during the season.

Q – How much does it cost?
Be prepared to spend ….. a lot ~ and don’t expect to make a profit or even break even. Most I know including myself only just about cover the costs ~ if we’re lucky.

Even cutting costs with home-made incubators, hides, DIY rubs and tubs the costs mount up ~ extra livefood (not just for the adults but all the hatchlings) plus the food for gutloading, supplements, vet fee’s if anything should go wrong as well as the other costs like electricity. Take into account that most leo’s are at least eight weeks old before they’re sold so space is also going to be at a premium; be prepared to keep the hatchlings longer too as selling them is not guaranteed. 

There is also a cost in the time needed to spend on them all ~ it isn’t just an hour a day and that’s that; you can’t take time out and leave them for a weekend or so because you’re tired or want to go out with your friends ~ just because you can cut costs/corners in some ways does not mean that you can or should in others least of all with the health and well-being of the leo’s in mind.

Q – I gonna buy and breed leo’s
Anybody can buy a load of leo’s, call themselves a breeder and set themselves up as such ~ but to my mind a good Breeder not only researches first and cares about their leo’s but is someone who works with what is in their leo’s best interest not their own.

Harsh? Maybe yes ~ breeding leo’s responsibly takes time, planning, patience, money along with research and reading ~ it’s not just a case of buying/shoving leo’s together to do the bizz asap nor should it be a case of being used to ‘big’ someone’s ego ~ unfortunately this increasingly seems to be happening.


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## MrMike

Fantastic post :notworthy: Sticky contender me thinks.


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## martin day

brilliant post m8 it defiantly needs to be made in to a sticky it would be a shame to lose it especially after the time and effort thats been put in to it 
top job: victory:


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## SleepyD

:blush: thankyou both ~ it's something that's been bugging me for awhile


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## gecko101

sticckkkyyy


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## GazEmm

A worthwhile post, although i did get a bit of an 'anti-breeding' vibe from it but i do see what you are trying to get across.

Im looking to start breeding soon and there certainly is a lot to know! I dont ever intend to make any money from it, its just something ive always wanted to try, plus i bet its satisfying succesfully raising some leos!!


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## SleepyD

GazEmm said:


> A worthwhile post, although i did get a bit of an 'anti-breeding' vibe from it but i do see what you are trying to get across.


no not anti-breeding but having seen the results of unthought out, unresearched breeding and even uncaring breeding I do feel strongly about it :blush:


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## 12kslr33

I have brought a breeding trio of geckos and i do plan on breeding them, i have read alot about breeding and have all the space and requirements needed. I have done this though as i reckon breeding Leos will be alot easier than breeding corns which i plan on doing in the next 2 years so it is for experience aswell as the enjoyment of raising my own babies.

Great thread though and definately sticky!


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## GazEmm

SleepyD said:


> no not anti-breeding but having seen the results of unthought out, unresearched breeding and even uncaring breeding I do feel strongly about it :blush:


Oh yea i didnt mean it in a negative way, people need to be aware of the 'cons' of breeding.

This thread really highlights some important things people should be aware of before jumping in feet first and getting stuck!


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## pmamhayes

nice post jedi master:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

but i have a question master, i dont have a male gecko called littl’jonboy can i still breed my geckos:devil:


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## Sarah-Jayne

Another thing to consider, unless I read your message totally wrong, is just how much of an affect breeding has on the females. I noticed just how much it took out of them when I bred mine and I have to be honest, it really upset me to see them in that state, and I would never ever breed them again, I just don't think it is worth it!


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## sambrads

excellent post and great sticky topic i think, i have had one female breed last year and she laid eight eggs, it was hard work but well worth the reward of seeing a healthy baby gecko at the end of it, i agree it isnt something that should be rushed into i have had mine for a year before breeding well except the sneaky girl who was in with the male for a short time and it did take it out of the poor girl, she is in with my smaller girls now to give her some time out 

thank you for the advice for this year as well

Sam


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## SleepyD

pmamhayes said:


> but i have a question master, i dont have a male gecko called littl’jonboy can i still breed my geckos:devil:


lmao........ well you could if you had a 'jimbob' 



Sarah-Jayne said:


> Another thing to consider, unless I read your message totally wrong, is just how much of an affect breeding has on the females.


*nods* this is another thing that often isn't taken into account or considered... even with the best care a female can still be affected greatly and though the guide is letting them rest at least 4 months between breeding most of mine actually get a lot more ~ anywhere from six months to a year


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## SleepyD

GazEmm said:


> Oh yea i didnt mean it in a negative way, people need to be aware of the 'cons' of breeding.
> 
> This thread really highlights some important things people should be aware of before jumping in feet first and getting stuck!


thanks and yes I agree that folks need to be aware of the cons ~ it ain't all 'aaah cute babies': victory:


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## pmamhayes

SleepyD said:


> lmao........ well you could if you had a 'jimbob'


is that a new morph......were can i get one:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


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## SleepyD

sambrads said:


> excellent post and great sticky topic i think


 thankyou ~ don't know how to get it stickied if it's good enough though :blush:


pmamhayes said:


> is that a new morph......were can i get one:mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:


lol ~ you really don't want me to answer that do you :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Bosscat

Good stuff SleepyD, definately should be a sticky!


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## wallyreptiles

wow thanks . this has gotta be a sticky:no1:


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## SleepyD

Bosscat said:


> Good stuff SleepyD, definately should be a sticky!


thanks and how?? :hmm:


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## funky1

Great thread hun!!! Totally agree with all of it, especially where you point out the time `costs` involved in raising hatchlings and the dramatic weight loss and impact it has on females. It does feel like, on the 3rd or 4th clutch that a female lays, that she becomes like an egg-laying machine - where all the goodness and energy goes into the eggs instead of her. Great that you`ve stressed the importance of rest and building them up first :no1:!


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## gecko101

This post just made me a *super citizen* woop woop!


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## funky1

gecko101 said:


> This post just made me a *super citizen* woop woop!


:grouphug: haha! Congratulations!


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## SleepyD

funky1 said:


> Great thread hun!!! Totally agree with all of it, especially where you point out the time `costs` involved in raising hatchlings and the dramatic weight loss and impact it has on females. It does feel like, on the 3rd or 4th clutch that a female lays, that she becomes like an egg-laying machine - where all the goodness and energy goes into the eggs instead of her. Great that you`ve stressed the importance of rest and building them up first :no1:!


cheers 
there's that plus I don't think it's generally realised how much a females health or lack of sufficient feeding, supplements, care etc can affect the eggs and hatchlings


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## gecko101

funky1 said:


> :grouphug: haha! Congratulations!


cheers lol


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## pmamhayes

sticky sticky:no1:


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## SleepyD

pmamhayes said:


> sticky sticky:no1:


thanks for the support  have pm'd wohic as they're one of the mods online so will have to wait and see


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## SleepyD

stickied! many thanks cornmorphs : victory:


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## kirsten

yay congrats on getting a sticky


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## Mal

Sleepy, an excellent post and Im glad it has been made into a 'sticky'.


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## Tommy123

excellent post!!!


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## sallyconyers

Excellent post!!


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## Jaymond

Great post! definalty made me think again, I was thinking about breeding this year, but I might leave it till next, to get all the equipment set up properly and get the girls in the best condition they can be in.

Glad its been made a sticky! shame u didn't include some cute baby pics to round it all off :lol2:


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## geckomad

er im thinking of breeding my leos for the first time. i would like someone to help me  ive done nothing like it before but i know how to keep leos. would anyone help me please? i do have money to spend. i think one of my females is ready as she is very plump. but i dont have any scales 

help the newbie! xD


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## CTI_Perrin

Good thread! very helpful to potential breeders:no1:


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## GECKO=]

Brrrrriiiliant post mate it's a really good artical
I'm going to breed my lecuistic gecko(Rocky) with a mack super snow(roxy) I treat them like a King and Queen
Nice Post Thanks.
[email protected]


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## Trainee_ninja

Excellent post, well made out points, that certainly gets you thinking 

Andy


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## daveplymouth

sounds patronizing to me.


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## olivine

daveplymouth said:


> sounds patronizing to me.


Maybe once you've been on the forum a little longer you'll realise just how many people make the ill-considered decision to breed their leos, having done no prior research and with no preparation. In that light, this eminently sensible post is most definitely not patronising, but rather gives some much-needed good advice.


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## ianb

: victory:: victory:: victory:


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## cornsnake breeder

ne 1 on here have corn snakes?:2thumb:


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## cornsnake breeder

how old is ur corn snake


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## blackice

*gr8 post*

i like this post,well tought & well said.
i did 2 years of research before i decided to breed leos & i have had very few problems so far :no1:


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## mariex4

F*A*N*T*A*S*T*I*C* post ive saved to favorites so can come back to veiw , thats so true a leo should come first not yourself thats why all the help ,info is great as all i want is the best for them and the ickle ones great post again


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## swift_wraith

Great post SleepyD, pity i missed it before. could have saved me a lot of trouble. Now have 2 unexpected eggs.


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## mokey28

wickid thread mate my leo has just layed 2 eggs and i think she has got some more on the way witch isnt very gd she didnt fully recover from the first lot and where she has held in his sperm she has got more im tryin to do eveything i can to get her strengh back up tho


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## garden93

http://www.leopardge.uk/cko.codocuments


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## DeclanAndAmy

very goooood post im expecting my female leo to start laying soon  fingers crossed for some hatchlings! !!! will have my own post up to record the process


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## loonymoony

Excellent advice as always from a top Gecko guru!:2thumb:


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## maesmith

great post i really want to get into breeding leo's and this has by far been the best help


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## weetabix ears

excellent post good advice straight to the point :2thumb::2thumb:


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## annscave

*Yea Thanks*

I am just starting leos some good info in here maybe even saved me running into probs down the line


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## michellew

Any ideas on stopping mould? I can "do" beardy eggs fine but for some reason all leo eggs getting incredibly mouldy - same containers / vermic etc etc
Tried more opening to increase air exchange, mycil lightly dusted on etc but nothing stops it

Very informative though


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## annscave

*mould*

Yea its a hard one you need maybe less water in you vermiculite or more air some good vids on hatching Leopard gecko eggs on Y/T they show you how to get the right mix of water try looking at some an see I have not been blessed with eggs yet as I only have one pair old enough for breeding just now and the female has lost a bit of waight so i will wait another month to start her off but try the vids an see how you get on


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## annscave

*RE eggs*

I forgot to ask have you checked the eggs are fertile?????????? that could be the prob


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## michellew

I'll check YT out thanks
Yeah they look good eggs when laid just usually 3-4 weeks in they mould up - seems such a shame after the hard work the girls put in


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## Lianna

Iv had my leo's going on 2 years now (gizmo and domino) they'v only just started laying eggs and caught me off gard when they did..I threw the first ones away as i wasnt sure what to do with them.(I never intended to breed my leo's) i now have my incubator and all my other boxes set up how ever after a week or so in my incubator my eggs are "shriveling up" domino waighs about 60g shes a little fatty so shes a good waight.. am i doing something wrong with my eggs? Thanks Lianna x


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## annscave

*eggs*

If fertility is good it can only be moistuer or temps that are wrong. You could try researching Hattching leopard gecko eggs on google for more advice. 
Hope this helps

Stuart


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## nickcradd067

Interesting thread. Useful in some ways but a little preachy and not very much information about actually breeding Leos, which was not the point but would have still made it more useful : victory:


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## geckoguy2000

hey,
iv bred my geckos brill and no probs but iv got a question about incubating...
when they are in the incubator and iv heard that you cant spray them :-0 do you spray them directly or spray the vermiculite/perlite around them? 
please help, thanks


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## annscave

*Eggs*

most say is best to spray around the eggs but I just give a spray over ever second or third day never had a prob with it do NOT over spray just one or two squirts is all it needs. Best of luck.


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## Gecko Ecko

*Is 8 months of age ok for breeding Leos?*

Hi all, I'm getting a Leo for Christmas and I should be breeding with my male Leo Ecko with his female Leo Bella, but we are not sure what age and size we should start breeding. Please get back to me A.S.A.P
Thanks
-Ecko :2thumb:


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## plecostrum

Great thread..
I'm researching as much as I can first 
to find the best geckos and best breed combination. 
Research and lots of questions and help will be required ;-) 
Geckos for dummies on order ;-)


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## dinosaur lou

SleepyD said:


> There’s been numerous threads and posts/questions about breeding leo’s ~ how-to, when, what if, etc ~ so thought I’d post a few personal thoughts about this here ~
> 
> Time, Patience and Planning ~
> All of these are needed ~ not only to choose leo’s carefully but also to research what is needed, what can go wrong, what is best to ensure not only healthy hatchlings but also to keep your leo’s in good health and time to get everything needed ready well in advance.
> 
> Q – Can I keep my male with my female all the time?
> Males mature earlier then females ~ which is why I always recommend separating them before 4 months of age ~ and I recommend keeping them separated unless they’re the right age/weight and breeding is wanted and planned for ~ just because littl’jonboy hasn’t done anything to mildred yet don’t mean that sooner or later he won’t ~ he’ll eventually be ready but chances are she won’t be and nor will you; and on the same note no littl’jonboy won’t be all lonely because he’s not got a girlfriend or two to cuddle.
> 
> Q- How old and big does a female have to be?
> As a general guide females should be in good health and a bare minimum of 12 months old (preferably older) and over 50g-55g in weight ~ however I feel that there are also other important points to think about too ~ buying a female hatched the year before doesn’t always guarantee that she is old enough nor does being ‘breeding’ weight mean they can be bred yet, also buying adult females at the start of a year/season doesn’t necessarily mean that they can be bred that same year/season ~ far better to wait a season, practise quarantine and patience and get the females up to optimum condition and health first ~ females don’t just need careful looking after *during* the breeding season i.e.: extra food, extra calcium requirements etc, but they also need time to build up *before* the breeding season.
> How a female is looked after before breeding can influence how well she does ~ breeding underweight, too young, ill, over-stressed, over-breeding, can all potentially lead to sometimes fatal problems not only with the female’s health but also with any eggs/hatchlings she may have. Depending on age and health a single female can lay in excess of eight clutches and it can and does take a lot out of her ~ be prepared to remove a male leo into a separate viv after he’s done the deed ~ males continually wanting to mate can stress a gravid female.
> If you have more then one female again be prepared to keep them in their own vivs/tubs during the season ~ not all females will tolerate others especially when they’re gravid and competing for laying areas.
> 
> Q – When do I need to get the stuff ready for breeding?
> If you haven’t bred before then take the time to read and research about it first ~ it can save a lot of hassle and problems later on.
> Get everything ready in advance ~ incubators (whether home-made or bought), tubs/rubs for hatchlings along with bigger rubs as they grow, heat mats/strips, stats, thermometers, stacks and all the other bits that breeding entails ~ it all needs to be checked and ready beforehand not left till the last minute. Check round for a good livefood supplier who can supply regular orders ~ don’t just rely on a local shop ~ you don’t want to be in the position of running out of livefood during the season.
> 
> Q – How much does it cost?
> Be prepared to spend ….. a lot ~ and don’t expect to make a profit or even break even. Most I know including myself only just about cover the costs ~ if we’re lucky.
> 
> Even cutting costs with home-made incubators, hides, DIY rubs and tubs the costs mount up ~ extra livefood (not just for the adults but all the hatchlings) plus the food for gutloading, supplements, vet fee’s if anything should go wrong as well as the other costs like electricity. Take into account that most leo’s are at least eight weeks old before they’re sold so space is also going to be at a premium; be prepared to keep the hatchlings longer too as selling them is not guaranteed.
> 
> There is also a cost in the time needed to spend on them all ~ it isn’t just an hour a day and that’s that; you can’t take time out and leave them for a weekend or so because you’re tired or want to go out with your friends ~ just because you can cut costs/corners in some ways does not mean that you can or should in others least of all with the health and well-being of the leo’s in mind.
> 
> Q – I gonna buy and breed leo’s
> Anybody can buy a load of leo’s, call themselves a breeder and set themselves up as such ~ but to my mind a good Breeder not only researches first and cares about their leo’s but is someone who works with what is in their leo’s best interest not their own.
> 
> Harsh? Maybe yes ~ breeding leo’s responsibly takes time, planning, patience, money along with research and reading ~ it’s not just a case of buying/shoving leo’s together to do the bizz asap nor should it be a case of being used to ‘big’ someone’s ego ~ unfortunately this increasingly seems to be happening.


Hit the nail on the head 
Brilliant 
As a first time reptile owner this couldn't of sent a more clearer message I hope people understand it's about passion not money


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## adamo1315

Hi. I am an experienced reptile keeper. In the next year i would like to strat breeding leos. I have done good research about breeding geckos and also have got 3 geckos as a pet, so have got experienced in geckos. I gonna buy few in next few months. The only problem is how to choose the morphs. Is better to buy all same morphs or just try pick up different ones? How did you pick up yours first gecko(morphs) for breeding? Don't wont to waste money. Thanks in advance.


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