# (Hopefully worthy of a response) Question for venemous snake keepers.



## RicDerby (Mar 22, 2009)

Now I know you guys think most questions posed to you are stupid so I'm hoping this doesn't cause a ruckus!

I know you have to be incredibly careful with venemous snakes but is that JUST because of the potential danger of a bite or are they particularly aggressive anyway? Do they not calm down in captivity a little bit like most species of non-venemous do or does it plainly depend on the species?


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## jasper1 (Apr 15, 2007)

You can get calm snakes in all species; be it venomous or non-venomous, just as there are certain ones known to be snappy. However, in most cases of non-venomous, regular handling (which is not advisable when dealing with hots) can calm them down. Some still remain psychos though, even from species known for their placidness. 

But you still wouldn't want to be free handling venomous just because you had a calm snake.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

With any snake,whether its WC,CF,CB hot or not,they all have off days.


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## RicDerby (Mar 22, 2009)

I wasn't for a second suggesting you would free handle or they didn't have off days, but would a venemous snake calm down in captivity as most of the snakes I have personal experience with would or do they tend to be more on edge and in a different mindset?


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## jasper1 (Apr 15, 2007)

As I said; some do, some don't.


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## RicDerby (Mar 22, 2009)

Fair enough, thanks!


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## Tehanu (Nov 12, 2006)

RicDerby said:


> I wasn't for a second suggesting you would free handle or they didn't have off days, but would a venemous snake calm down in captivity as most of the snakes I have personal experience with would or do they tend to be more on edge and in a different mindset?


It's a difficult one, essentially every species has it's own characteristics and every individual has it's own variation on those too.

I wouldn't say you literally expect any venomous to want to bite from the word go, more than any non-venomous. I think the question you were really getting at was "are venomous snakes generally, naturally more aggressive/defensive than non-venomous", the answer is no 

A few illustrations for your interest 
The front fanged eyelash vipers I work with don't have any particular interest in biting (or reacting at all) unless you really push them, if you force them to react they go berzerk with no real warning body language, biting very fast, repeatedly and in any given direction. Once you've pushed their buttons you can forget about them going back to sitting quietly...

The rear fanged mangrove snakes I keep at home will react quickly to a disturbance... first they want to run away, but if you don't allow them to, almost immediately they will turn to defend themselves. They will give you lots and lots of warning, huffing, puffing, flattened neck, gaping. If you don't leave them alone rapidly they resort to very meaningful fast strikes, steady and at long intervals but each one means business. If this doesn't scare you off after a minute or two, they give up and either try to hide their faces or run (don't worry I don't intentionally bully my snakes!)

The non-venomous pacific island boas that I keep seem like any nice friendly common boa to handle, you can handle them for 5 minutes or 45 minutes, maybe you'll handle them once before an incident, maybe you'll handle them 20 times... for no particular reason, in the middle of handling these guys, (I've had one do it while I was completely still, supporting him with both hands but not actively "touching") they'll simply turn lightening fast with no warning whatsoever and sweep sideways to plant a nasty bite on you, the large male that nabbed me latched on halfway up my forearm, mouth open to almost 180 degrees and chewed sideways through my arm. When he let go, I didn't hold him long enough to find out if he was going to keep doing it!!!


The difference between venomous and non-venomous snakes is in the consequences. 
You can't afford to find out what kind of character each individual snake has by doing it the hard way, while I can handle a new non-venomous snake freely until I discover that it's a bit of a git and then adapt my methods to it... with a venomous snake you have use the opposite approach, assume the snake is definitely going to bite you at every opportunity because you cannot afford to let it happen even once.


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## RicDerby (Mar 22, 2009)

Saedcantas said:


> It's a difficult one, essentially every species has it's own characteristics and every individual has it's own variation on those too.
> 
> I wouldn't say you literally expect any venomous to want to bite from the word go, more than any non-venomous. I think the question you were really getting at was "are venomous snakes generally, naturally more aggressive/defensive than non-venomous", the answer is no
> 
> ...


Wow, that's the kind of response I was after! Very informative. And yeah that was the meaning of the question. I'd like to think someday I'll be able to experience this stuff on my own but having only seen venomous snakes asleep in Chester zoo or manhandled brutally on documentaries it's kind of hard to guage some things!

Thanks very much


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

I dont keep venomous but its seems a decent question to ask. DO venomous snakes bite without injecting there venom ?

Like a bluff bite, they bite you but then let go fast without getting there ven0om in you ?

I dont know feck all about venomous sadly but there very intresting and i would like to know more about them 

thankyou to all that reply


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

As I understand it venom is not something to be wasted as far as the snake is concerened,it takes time to produce hence dry bites do occur,maybe as a warning before the real thing?Not that I'd count on it.I dont think I am the right kind of keeper for hot snakes personally.I have considered it over the years,usually when I see Bothriechis schlegelii,but I don't trust myself not to touch.


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Barry.M said:


> As I understand it venom is not something to be wasted as far as the snake is concerened,it takes time to produce hence dry bites do occur,maybe as a warning before the real thing?Not that I'd count on it.I dont think I am the right kind of keeper for hot snakes personally.I have considered it over the years,usually when I see Bothriechis schlegelii,but I don't trust myself not to touch.


yeah i understand you there  thankyou.

I would like to get into venomous in many years time. I keep non venomous now and hopefully will get rear fannged in a year or soos time as ive been keeping snakes for 4 years enyways and then maybe in like 5 year maybe more i might consider it. Once i am in the position to do so. Have a room that is not used by another person.

Thanks


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

I think it depends on the Species just like some non venomous snakes are more aggresive as a species so are venomous. But i have found over the years that most aggresive species may calm down in captivity especially if they are handled regularly even if its hook and tailing a cobra or mangrove. I believe that my cobras have got used to seeing me and rarely hood up and are very inquisitive in what i am doing in the room and watch me. my red tails on the other hand are allways highly aggresive and will strike and display when ever im around, everyone i have ever had has done this. But on the otherhand i have had stinking goddess both W/C and C/B, the W/C were always evil and never calmed down but my C/B i have now are reasonbly ok they are handleable but sometimes will bite.
Its swings and roundabouts there are no hard and fast rules some snakes in my opinion will calm down to a degree in capivity some wont weather venomous or not. as has been said before its just the consiquences that are different


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## RicDerby (Mar 22, 2009)

Hahaha, I'm glad this thread went ok!

A better way to word my question would have been are venemous less likely to calm down in captivity but it's been answered anyway, don't know why I didn't think of just asking that in the first place!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

southpython said:


> I dont keep venomous but its seems a decent question to ask. DO venomous snakes bite without injecting there venom ?
> 
> Like a bluff bite, they bite you but then let go fast without getting there ven0om in you ?


Yes, it is possible to get a "dry" bite. It's not necessarily how fast they let go, though - it's whether they CHOOSE to envenomate (since a rattlesnake that means to envenomate something is striking just as fast as a rattler that means to scare you off).


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## southpython (Feb 18, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Yes, it is possible to get a "dry" bite. It's not necessarily how fast they let go, though - it's whether they CHOOSE to envenomate (since a rattlesnake that means to envenomate something is striking just as fast as a rattler that means to scare you off).


Ah ok, i get ya 

would you know if it was a dry bite or not ? could you tell ?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

southpython said:


> Ah ok, i get ya
> 
> would you know if it was a dry bite or not ? could you tell ?


Yeah, your leg doesn't drop off 

No, I didn't know when I got nailed whether or not I was making things worse by hiking the three miles back OUT of the canyon I was in on my own - didn't know for sure it was a dry bite until the effects I was scared of didn't show up.


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