# i think that



## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

a large constrictor is more dangerous than a DWA snake, reason being if a DWA gets its way you have chance of AV if a retic or boa gets its way its game over-what you think?


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## salvatoruk (Apr 28, 2009)

I think there are hundreds of DWA snakes and trying to blanket them all under the phrase DWA snakes and treat them as one is insane. Is a baby Waglers Viper more dangerous than a 20ft+ defensive Retic/Rock Python probably not. Is a PNG Taipan more dangerous, yes without a shadow of a doubt.

Also I keep seeing people talk about AV on here like it is some miracle treatment. This is real life not Snakes on a Plane. AV is a last resort and the chance of adverse affect from it are around 70% I believe. (PDR, maybe you can confirm this figure). There are far too many variables to consider for this to be answered on here and to be honest this thread is probably best left alone as it is the type that usually falls into pointless arguments and inexperienced people regurging incorrect information.


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

nitro said:


> a large constrictor is more dangerous than a DWA snake, reason being if a DWA gets its way you have chance of AV if a retic or boa gets its way its game over-what you think?


I think you mad.

I would most certainly rather have a fight with a Boa Constrictor than any venomous, even a FWC for that matter.


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

bladeblaster said:


> I think you mad.
> 
> I would most certainly rather have a fight with a Boa Constrictor than any venomous, even a FWC for that matter.


That is your opinion.

My point is also any tom dick or harry can get a large snake where as there are guide lines in place for ppl with DWA snakes


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## mad martin (Sep 4, 2008)

Its gonna be a big snake by the time a large constrictor is dangerous. By then you have learnt something.


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

nitro said:


> That is your opinion.
> 
> My point is also any tom dick or harry can get a large snake where as there are guide lines in place for ppl with DWA snakes


go and read the first reply, that covers it pretty clearly in my opinion. large constrictors are dangerous, yes. only a fool would argue otherwise. however there are a great many venomous snakes on the DWA that more than warrent their place there. As has been mentioned AV isnt some sort of miracle cure, get it and everything smells of roses. this along with the fact that as far as i am aware (correct me if i am wrong on this one) the 2 main places where AV is kept in the UK is in london and liverpool. It isnt readily available, certain AV may not be available etc. it isnt just a case of pop off to the local A&E and getting some vials

And then you have to consider the damage venom can do. Take A Bothrops as an example. yes if you get AV you will survive, but by the time you recieve treatment it is likely that you will have serious necrosis in tissues by the bite site etc, so whilst you may survive the bite there are often very irreversible effects involved. many people seem to think that you get bitten, there is some nasty poison stuff floating in the body, and depending on how potent it is it will kill you after a set amount of hours. It really doesnt work that wat


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

:closed:


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

nitro said:


> That is your opinion.
> 
> My point is also any tom dick or harry can get a large snake where as there are guide lines in place for ppl with DWA snakes


ut of interest does your opinion include both experience with large constrictors and venomous?


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

carpy said:


> ut of interest does your opinion include both experience with large constrictors and venomous?


Not DWA no.

Think might as well lock this thread because I dont want it becoming another row over an opinion-where clearly there is no right or wrong reply


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

there is a right reply, you are wrong :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## ViperLover (Jun 7, 2009)

If you're irrisponsible with a DWA snake, then it is very dangerous. If you're irrsponsible with a large constrictor, then it is indeed too very dangerous. That is just my personal opinion.

I've seen way too many pictures with people having rather large Burmese Pythons etc around they're necks, I think that promotes stupidity personally. Somebody said in a previous thread (I think it was Ssthisto) that even an adult corn snake has enough stregnth to make one faint if it got a little scared and put the squeeze on around you're neck...So what will a large python or Boa do?

That's how I see it.


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## MrDimmu (Oct 17, 2007)

ViperLover said:


> I've seen way too many pictures with people having rather large Burmese Pythons etc around they're necks, I think that promotes stupidity personally. Somebody said in a previous thread (I think it was Ssthisto) that even an adult corn snake has enough stregnth to make one faint if it got a little scared and put the squeeze on around you're neck...So what will a large python or Boa do?
> 
> That's how I see it.


Iv had a 10foot burm around my neck before just for a picture

To hold a Large boid for a picture is VERY difficult as they are not exactly light .. so it makes it easier to support it on your neck for a breif moment while picture is taken?

I wouldnt suggest that it should be common practice to do this, i dont let any of my retics near my head never mind around my neck, But go try lift a Burm up for a picture : victory:


As for if i would rather have Large boids or DWA ... well put it this way i have retics i dont have DWA ...


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

I do tend to agree partly with the OP. It does depend on species on both sides.
The problem is that as the reptile keeping is getting more popular then more people are getting both types, with the boids then it's much easier for the 'less desirable' element to get them and as half of them think they know it all then corners will be cut. Once that mistake is made and the big burm has a feeding strike and gets round the neck or chest then that person will have to be very lucky to get away with it.

With the DWA, yes the bites can be extremely dangerous but chances are you could get bitten and then still be able to ring the ambulance even if you were on your own. though how long you would have after that is another matter.

It's not so much that large constrictors are more dangerous, as more that a larger group of people can keep them with little in the way of safeguards, whereas with DWA at least hopefully some training has been done and the keeper has a bit more respect for them. 

Ultimately both groups have members that can kill, the constrictors can probably kill faster but with the right safeguards are probably safer to deal with, with the wrong safeguards then that might not be the case.

just my thoughts on it.

Mike


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Ok if we are saying that a the person who owns the venomous snake is a licenced keeper and by the same token the person keeping the large python is responsible then here is my answer.
if you get nailed and constricted by a large python your second handler who you should have if you are using good practice for handling large constrictors should be able to get it off you before any serious injury should occur
If the venomouse snake was to bite its handler, he stays bitten!


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## emergency0311 (May 20, 2007)

Good answer Leecb0 :2thumb:


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## WW** (Jan 20, 2008)

I actually tend to agree with the OP to the extent that, if a large constrictor has its coils around you and is intent on killing you, you have at most a minute or two for something to be done about it, by someone else. If you get bitten by any venomous snake, you normally have several hours for something to be done. 

In the US, the numbers of fatalities from large captive constrictors and captive venomous snakes are not all that dissimilar (and many of the venomous fatalities were due to people not seeking medical help after being bitten during religious ceremonies, and thus entirely avoidable) - see Rexano Statistics Information Page

Of course many of those bitten by venomous snakes will have a pretty rough time out of it, but in terms of the actual chance of death from a hostile interaction, large constrictors should not be underestimated.


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

leecb0 said:


> Ok if we are saying that a the person who owns the venomous snake is a licenced keeper and by the same token the person keeping the large python is responsible then here is my answer.
> if you get nailed and constricted by a large python your second handler who you should have if you are using good practice for handling large constrictors should be able to get it off you before any serious injury should occur
> If the venomouse snake was to bite its handler, he stays bitten!


Ah I do agree with your thinking there.

But unfortunately I also think that as anyone an easily et a large constrictor then a good percentage will practice unsafe handling (ie deal with it on thei own).
Whereas with DWA then hopefully those people will have been weeded out a little more and hopefully are a little more are of the risk. With the constrictors more people don't realize how easy it is to make that mistake.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone, just trying to say hat I feel.

Basically what I think I'm trying to say is that in an ideal world the chances of something going wrong and ending badly is probably higher with venomous due to the fact that a tiny bite is easy to occur. But that humans are far from ideal and too many people ignore the risks a large snake has.

Mike


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## AZUK (Jul 9, 2007)

Pigeons can kill........... if you tried to swallow one. Point is all animals demand respect and caution when working with them.
Venomous and other DWAL animals seem to demand the most respect (and rightly so) but it is to easy to get complacent around animals we tend to take for granted.
Large constrictors should never be wrapped around your neck especially if your on your own, over on shoulder is usually suffice, but again with at least one other person present.


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## monkeymagic (Mar 26, 2008)

*hi*

i have done years of work with big constricors such as retics and burms up and around 18 foot plus have also worked a fair bit with caimen and alligators and very minimal work with hots you can not compair the two ie if a big retic gets hold of you if your alone there is not really much you can do about it at the same time if gabby tags you your in a lot of trouble its a silly question its like saying which would you rather fight to the death a lion or a hippo both of which will kill you so its irrelevant which is the most dangerous


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

nitro said:


> Not DWA no.
> 
> Think might as well lock this thread because I dont want it becoming another row over an opinion-where clearly there is no right or wrong reply


yea thats exactly it, both animals are extremely dangerous, but as someone has mentioned with the right precautions a large constrictor can be less of a danger than a DWA. as mentioned once you have been bitten you have been bitten, no going back from it. with the right proportion of keepers to the size of the constrictor it should not be an issue


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

I understand and agree totally with the vast majority of views, however my point is around DWA obviously you have had years of training, always on your toes, have been mentored or work around these for either reasearch etc etc, realistically how many people do you think who have large snakes have someone around them??? very few, how many kids have these in there bedroom?? many, i feel a few of you are missing the point, i do feel that with large snakes there should be strong guidelines in place, i am sure responsible owners/breeders of the said snakes would agree, I dont mean to the full extent of DWA standards though, I do feel that it is only a matter of time before someone is killed in the uk, and il bet my house on it it wont be from a venomous snake.

I find it hard you will disagree but i am more than sure you will


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## carpy (Nov 13, 2007)

nitro said:


> I understand and agree totally with the vast majority of views, however my point is around DWA obviously you have had years of training, always on your toes, have been mentored or work around these for either reasearch etc etc, realistically how many people do you think who have large snakes have someone around them??? very few, how many kids have these in there bedroom?? many, i feel a few of you are missing the point, i do feel that with large snakes there should be strong guidelines in place, i am sure responsible owners/breeders of the said snakes would agree, I dont mean to the full extent of DWA standards though, I do feel that it is only a matter of time before someone is killed in the uk, and il bet my house on it it wont be from a venomous snake.
> 
> I find it hard you will disagree but i am more than sure you will


I think that makes you homeless then:whistling2:


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## masticophis (Jan 14, 2007)

nitro said:


> i do feel that with large snakes there should be strong guidelines in place, i am sure responsible owners/breeders of the said snakes would agree, I dont mean to the full extent of DWA standards though,


I don't agree with this but only really as because the government or some 'reputable animal welfare society' (It could only be the rspca) could run it. This would basically mean that the reasons for having it would be ignored, either they would stop keeping or they would make a fortune out of it.

Giving the government an inch would mean they take a mile.

Mike


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

masticophis said:


> I don't agree with this but only really as because the government or some 'reputable animal welfare society' (It could only be the rspca) could run it. This would basically mean that the reasons for having it would be ignored, either they would stop keeping or they would make a fortune out of it.
> 
> Giving the government an inch would mean they take a mile.
> 
> Mike


yeah it would be hard to police properly, granted, and yeah the government would more than likely take advantage


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## PDR (Nov 27, 2008)

I’d have to agree with Wolfgang. If you have a serious situation with a constrictor, you either walk away bloodied and bruised or you end up on a slab in the morgue.
I’ve been in intensive care three times following venomous bites. Very painful and it sure knocks the hell out of you but with the use of antivenom the critical, life threatening effects can be reversed within a day or two.... it still takes time to recover from the nasty side effects.
I am often asked by visitors to our Herpetarium about the dangers and risk of working with venomous snakes...... my stock answer is “look out of the window, you see those men working up on that scaffolding.... if they fall it is either a wooden box or at best a wheelchair for the rest of their lives... at least with these snakes you have the chance to make a good recovery with the use of antivenom”.
You could say the same about Zoo / Safari park Staff... if they are bitten by a venomous snake they have the chance of making a full recovery with the use of AV.... there is no miracle cure when elephants crush keepers or tigers turn and attack which has happened at least five times in British Zoos that I know about.


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## nitro (Dec 8, 2009)

carpy said:


> I think that makes you homeless then:whistling2:



Gang of youths force python to bite teenager | UK news | guardian.co.uk


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