# Dog / Cat food gut load for beardie.



## dhoban7942 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi guys,

I was wondering what the best nutritionally, and most cost effective dog or cat food for gut loading mealworms??

Thanks in advance,
Dan


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## vgorst (Sep 27, 2011)

Just use kitchen scraps, nutrition wise it's much better than cat/dog food


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Dog and cat food sucks!!!

Please read this and be prepared to get shocked. This ingredient is in nearly all of it.

Sodium Tripolyphosphate explained here..Phosphates in food!


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## dhoban7942 (Jul 25, 2012)

Woah! Interesting read! Kitchen scraps it is!


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## ChelsNLuke (Jun 23, 2012)

We use carrots, potato's and like everyone says, all kitchen scraps like that ))))))))))))) Works great and we supplement with repashy


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## nicnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> Dog and cat food sucks!!!
> 
> Please read this and be prepared to get shocked. This ingredient is in nearly all of it.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I've been trying to convince people for years that dog food is total rubbish and they are better off making their own. The ones that say 'animals and animal products' can actually contain dead animals that are collected by 'meat processors' from vets.

dog food also contain very little actual meat in them. One that says 'contains x meat' only has to have a 80% meat ration. One that says 'with x meat' only has to have a 3% meat ratio.

Vets have known for years that a lot of problems with cats /dogs are due to the food they are eating which is why they try push the more expensive dried foods (which are not that much better)



Back to topic lol

My mealworms and morios just get kitchen scraps also. We have an indoor compost heap in the bug room lol


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## Nikkifer (Oct 18, 2010)

I use fresh fruit, veg and salad for mine. I also sprinkle pure calcium dust on the veg so that they get that too, i do this with all live food i feed :2thumb:


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> Dog and cat food sucks!!!
> 
> Please read this and be prepared to get shocked. This ingredient is in nearly all of it.
> 
> ...


There's also cyanide in apple seeds so all of you that feed apples to your herps are murderers!

As much as I agree that dog/cat food is hardly fit for dogs and cats, let alone anything else, the fact that it contains phosphates is hardly the death sentence that article makes it out to be. It reminds me of my crazy grandad who thinks the government are trying to kill us off by putting fluoride in our toothpaste.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Ayra said:


> There's also cyanide in apple seeds so all of you that feed apples to your herps are murderers!
> 
> As much as I agree that dog/cat food is hardly fit for dogs and cats, let alone anything else, the fact that it contains phosphates is hardly the death sentence that article makes it out to be. It reminds me of my crazy grandad who thinks the government are trying to kill us off by putting fluoride in our toothpaste.


Did you ever stop to think that seeds can be removed? No you didnt and to be quite honest i think you are well out of order calling people murderers.


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

dramen said:


> Did you ever stop to think that seeds can be removed? No you didnt and to be quite honest i think you are well out of order calling people murderers.


You're missing the point; I was mocking the article. I know you can remove the seeds and even if they ate the seeds it would do no harm. I've fed apple to many reptiles, and also fed dog food to many dogs. It's generally harmless and is being blown out of proportion above. I'm not trying to insult anyone or start a "Reptiles Against [email protected] campaign lol. Just making a point.


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## dramen (May 29, 2012)

Ayra said:


> You're missing the point; I was mocking the article. I know you can remove the seeds and even if they ate the seeds it would do no harm. I've fed apple to many reptiles, and also fed dog food to many dogs. It's generally harmless and is being blown out of proportion above. I'm not trying to insult anyone or start a "Reptiles Against [email protected] campaign lol. Just making a point.


Ah apologies lol the sarcasm got lost on me .


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Ayra said:


> There's also cyanide in apple seeds so all of you that feed apples to your herps are murderers!
> 
> As much as I agree that dog/cat food is hardly fit for dogs and cats, let alone anything else, the fact that it contains phosphates is hardly the death sentence that article makes it out to be. It reminds me of my crazy grandad who thinks the government are trying to kill us off by putting fluoride in our toothpaste.


So let me if I understand this correctly, you are trying to say that the same phosphate ingredient used to make laundry detergent is not going to have any effect on the kidneys and livers of small reptiles, not even after long term exposure??

Tell that to the litter of baby snakes and my dead Bosc who were unfortunate enough to eat prawns and fish treated with that same chemical...

Consider this mate, how many geckos would it take to equal the mass of one larger breed dog's liver?

How many baby Natrix would it take to equal the mass of one human liver?

Since this thread is about Pogona, just how much exposure to this Phosphate do you think they get in the outback? 

The point I am making here is that our organs are much larger and can handle trace amounts of toxins with little ill effects, however herps are far more sensitive to exposure than large mammals are.

I did not enter into that research lightly, My collection was dying, and I had to get to the root of the problem, and YES I paid for post mortem lab work.

So be thankful that I care enough to publish my findings and share them with others.


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> So let me if I understand this correctly, you are trying to say that the same phosphate ingredient used to make laundry detergent is not going to have any effect on the kidneys and livers of small reptiles, not even after long term exposure??
> 
> Tell that to the litter of baby snakes and my dead Bosc who were unfortunate enough to eat prawns and fish treated with that same chemical...
> 
> ...


But it seems to me that you're assuming the dragon would be exposed to the same amount of trace chemicals as the dog might, but it wouldn't. Partly because the food item would dilute it to a degree, and partly because the dragon would eat a lot less than a dog/cat would. I'm having trouble describing it so my apologies if this sounds a bit wishy washy lol. When the amount of food is decreased, the animal will be exposed to less chemicals because it's not as if the feed item is eating a tiny amount of dog food but still ingesting as much phosphates as a dog would.

I appreciate that dog's and cat's stomachs are pretty bomb proof but I don't believe that the results of a herp eating second hand dog food are quite as catastrophic as you make out. But I also acknowledge that you're views are based on research where as mine is just based on my own logic so I'm not saying you're wrong.


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

dramen said:


> Ah apologies lol the sarcasm got lost on me .


No worries. The internet isn't the best platform for sarcasm lol.


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## Infernalis (Jul 14, 2010)

Ayra said:


> But it seems to me that you're assuming the dragon would be exposed to the same amount of trace chemicals as the dog might, but it wouldn't. Partly because the food item would dilute it to a degree, and partly because the dragon would eat a lot less than a dog/cat would. I'm having trouble describing it so my apologies if this sounds a bit wishy washy lol. When the amount of food is decreased, the animal will be exposed to less chemicals because it's not as if the feed item is eating a tiny amount of dog food but still ingesting as much phosphates as a dog would.
> 
> I appreciate that dog's and cat's stomachs are pretty bomb proof but I don't believe that the results of a herp eating second hand dog food are quite as catastrophic as you make out. But I also acknowledge that you're views are based on research where as mine is just based on my own logic so I'm not saying you're wrong.


 Agreed...

My findings are based on the herps direct consumption of the chemical.

People feed canned dog food to lizards all the time, I see it on forums all over the place.

I did publish that primarily because there are still folks out there feeding canned rubbish directly to their lizards.


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## Ayra (Mar 3, 2011)

Infernalis said:


> Agreed...
> 
> My findings are based on the herps direct consumption of the chemical.
> 
> ...


I agree feeding it direct is ridiculous and unnecessary. But then saying that, I've never tried it and many people have done with success so who knows lol. Each to their own.


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