# Guess who is not a happy bunny!?



## Connie_F

*International Animal Rescue News*

September 2009
*School for scandal: Illegal wild animal dealing at Shenfield High School*

Shenfield High School has been publicly condemned for its part in facilitating an underground reptile market that took place on Sunday 27 September 2009, at which illegal trading of wild animals took place. The Animal Protection Agency, with support from International Animal Rescue, is now calling for an inquiry, and will be carrying out their own investigation, into the school's role in keeping the event hidden from the authorities.
The school originally announced that it had disallowed the event. A hunt then began for the new venue after organisers had threatened that their event would go underground. Public appeals for information were made and the police, as well as officers of several councils across Essex, spent considerable time searching through their contacts to track down the event. Some councils even made out-of-hours provisions in case the event turned up in their areas. Early on Friday afternoon, the Animal Protection Agency received a tip-off from a reptile keeper that the event would be taking place at the original venue, Shenfield High School. The school, however, refused to confirm or deny that the event was taking place there and advised that an announcement would be made after 6pm (ie. after council hours).
On Friday afternoon, Brentwood Borough Council were not aware that the event would be taking place at the school but did warn that the school could face prosecution if illegal trading took place.
Said Animal Protection Agency spokesperson, Elaine Toland:
"The school was made fully aware of the legal situation regarding reptile markets and also the health risks involved in staging such an event. Our team of investigators attended the market where countless criminal transactions were observed and recorded. The school, which is complicit in those crimes, may now be subject to prosecution. It's a scandal that time and public resources were wasted in tracking down this event when Shenfield High School could have provided information to the authorities that would have been helpful. If the school was confident that this was a legitimate event, then why all the secrecy?"
Conditions at this event were typical of all reptile markets and would have caused tremendous stress to the animals that were traded. Under current legislation, animals are protected from this type of mistreatment and numerous animal welfare organisations are working hard to ensure that this form of abuse is stamped out. Experts in public health warn that venues at which reptile markets have taken place may be contaminated for up to three months afterwards.
The Animal Protection Agency is an organisation focused on ceasing the trade in wild animals as pets. They work closely with International Animal Rescue which is dedicated to the rescue and rehabilitation of suffering animals all over the world.
_For more background information or for pictures, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253_.


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## ChloEllie

oh for gods sake....

edit: i have an idea, anyone got one of these 'man-eating' snakes that hasnt been fed for a while? anyone fancy posting it through her open window?
me thinks situation will be resolved lol


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## hogboy

What a pile of :war:


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## Kev132

Oh my, so many lies, and bad information in that *report* i dont think it even deserve's to be titled as a report actually !!!


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## hogboy

It wasn't illegal
it wasn't underground
There were no 'health risks'

And i especially love this bit

_Experts in public health warn that venues at which reptile markets have taken place may be contaminated for up to three months afterwards._


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## Issa

"Early on Friday afternoon, the Animal Protection Agency received a tip-off from a reptile keeper that the event would be taking place at the original venue"

More like an invitation from the President of the FBH to publicaly attend and put their mind at rest. Instead they sent their "undercover goons".


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## Crownan

What amazes me is the levels at which people will stoop in order to get what they went. How anyone who could tell such bogus lies could ever show her face in public is beyond me!

What a complete tool :roll:


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## ChloEllie

i still think my idea is worth a shot lol

how about anyone with a 20ft royal or corn? i imagine that could do some damage to her lol


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## dazza197910

*rubbish*

what a load of:censor: these people who write these so called reports are so out of touch with the reptil scene:lol2:


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## Crownan

ChloEllie said:


> i still think my idea is worth a shot lol
> 
> how about anyone with a 20ft royal or corn? i imagine that could do some damage to her lol


While your cause is admirable, you may want to think about what you write first


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## ChloEllie

Crownan said:


> While your cause is admirable, you may want to think about what you write first


y? im lost.


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## Kev132

ChloEllie said:


> y? im lost.


a 20ft royal or corn is the sort of maneater the APA would dream up :lol2:


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## Molly75

Herer they go again :whistling2:I'm sure they were shocked at the amount of heat mats under the reps the sheer amount of hand wash and wipes and how many people mistreated these so called wild reps my lot were totally upset to be in spacious tubs.

If anyone is reading this from APA.

1. Where were all the skinny wild caught scarred reptiles do you think they only catch reptiles of the same size, condition and weight?

2.Did you actually look???? did you not see all the heat provided plus hand wash and the fact most had temp guns to check temps and monitored the reps thoughout.

You came over to my friends table twice did you not see me checking temps Oh no why would you you have closed eye's to all but what you think you see!


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## ChloEllie

Kev132 said:


> a 20ft royal or corn is the sort of maneater the APA would dream up :lol2:


lol that was my point


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## Gaboon

Idiots!


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## Morphene

Connie_F said:


> International Animal Rescue : News: School for scandal: Illegal wild animal dealing at Shenfield High School


It's more entertaining than Boidae!


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## moonstruck

Oh dear...

...again.


When will she get bored of this?
The reps at the shows, the vast majority captive bred, and are all provided with everything they need for the short time they are there on display. 

What do they want people to do? Take vivariums or racks with them and full set-ups? I mean, that would be ludacris, the amount of space it'd take up! And the difficulty trasporting them. They'd have to be put into boxes for transport anyway, as with any pet, to reduce stress and avoid injury. 

Do you think they'd stop this is people actually used vivs and racks at shows to display, then put the reptiles into boxes that more greatly resemble the ones you'd take a rabbit home in, marked with "live animal"?

The majority of their complaints are about the so-called "take-away" tubs they are in, which are perfectly humane, and safe. Carboard boxes aren't really secure enough for reptiles, particularly snakes.
Why can they not understand that?  :banghead:


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## Malti

ChloEllie said:


> how about anyone with a 20ft royal or corn? i imagine that could do some damage to her lol


I don't think the snake would stomach touching her...and with all the Animal Protection BS she has, she'd probably kill it


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## SleepyD

Connie_F said:


> *School for scandal: Illegal wild animal dealing at Shenfield High School*


hi Connie ~ taking everything else aside for a moment has anyone reassured/talked to the school over this?
Only lets face it we all may know it's a bullying pile of the proverbial but many past, present and future venues may not and words such as 'illegal', 'criminal', 'prosecutions' and 'investigations' could well worry people.


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## joeyboy

surely she can be arrested for slander? The council approved it so it isn't illegal, so by making a report in the newspaper of a false crime..is that not against some kind of law?

It would be like me looking after someone's kid, then a neighbour who didn't like me saying I wasn't a child minder so it's illegal and I've also had a history of mistreating little kids and I've done illegal things to them so I'm on the sex offenders register(when I'm not and the council knows I'm not.). I'm sure that would be a crime.


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## Steve L

Not many people read her crappy site any way .Wheres the next show?


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## Issa

Has anyone contacted her for the pictures yet??


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## Morphene

issa said:


> has anyone contacted her for the pictures yet??


togtfo.


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## Issa

Greedy-Gecho7 said:


> togtfo.


And in english.........


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## Connie_F

SleepyD said:


> hi Connie ~ taking everything else aside for a moment has anyone reassured/talked to the school over this?
> Only lets face it we all may know it's a bullying pile of the proverbial but many past, present and future venues may not and words such as 'illegal', 'criminal', 'prosecutions' and 'investigations' could well worry people.


Don't worry, the school has been made aware of all the issues last week and have all the facts to easily defend their action.


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## Meko

to be fair to her... she's f*&king funny. It always makes my day when i read her rantings, she's probably got a huge fan base of people who go onto their site to read her spitting her dummy out about something or nothing, usually nothing.
Because, c'mon.... the only people who'd actually believe anything like that are the rabble of badly dressed social outcasts who were sent down there to spy, but nobody cares about them anyway. Anybody else who reads it can only be doing it for the entertainment factor.


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## rachel132002

Surely though it would only take half a brain to figure that a school being a public place would have HAD to have been allowed legally to use the school as a venue for this and as such dismisses the AR claims that it was illegal....that and the fact it was hardly missable, sure if it were so illegal our fleeced and backpacked friens would have called the police when they arrived and we'd have all been thrown out? madness lol


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## reptile_man_08

rachel132002 said:


> Surely though it would only take half a brain to figure that a school being a public place would have HAD to have been allowed legally to use the school as a venue for this and as such dismisses the AR claims that it was illegal....that and the fact it was hardly missable, sure if it were so illegal our fleeced and backpacked friens would have called the police when they arrived and we'd have all been thrown out? madness lol


Exactly, they've just made themselves look like idiots.:lol2:


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## karlos79

im loving the title "wild animals!" anyone have any wild caught there, especially all the 09 hatchlings that were present. would love to catch a BEL from the wild or a sputterball! must look harder.:lol2:

the ignorance of some people is unheard of!

and on the contamination issues. i have just evacuated my block of flats and told them they cant return for 3 months!:lol2:


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## Captainmatt29

There must be something we can do because we should not have to sit back and read this tripe! 

Someone really needs to put her in her place and fast before she causes so much crap that it affects shows like Doncaster etc and personally if someone with a camera had been seen in my show they'd have been booted on the spot.


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## mieze09

Wild caught animals lol I never saw a Mack Snow or Hypo Tangerine Gecko in the wild this antis really make you laugh :lol: they have to do their research first on animals.:whistling2:


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## hiero

'PUBLICALLY CONDEMNED!'

By one madwoman. 

I publically condemn the lad in my office who does the photocopying all the time, but no one ever writes an article about it. Then again...she wrote the article herself..for her website. Go her. 

Keep fighting and keep joining societies people...


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## darren81

ChloEllie said:


> oh for gods sake....
> 
> edit: i have an idea, anyone got one of these 'man-eating' snakes that hasnt been fed for a while? anyone fancy posting it through her open window?
> me thinks situation will be resolved lol


Ive got a rather feisty sinaloan which would give pretty much anything a good go lol.


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## Tarn~Totty

:lol2::lol2::lol2: God shes pathetic. Grow up woman, try putting out true accounts of things instead of boring drivel...were not impressed or put off by any of it.


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## AuntyLizard

Surely there is some kind of legal action that can be taken against her. There must be on this forum someone with legal knowledge and could help out.

I think it is pathetic the lengths she has gone to.. perhaps she should get herself a real life.

Liz


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## HABU

could someone help me here?... i've been trying to look up the statistics for illnesses linked to reptiles in the u.k.... i can't find any numbers... i've been on all kinds of sites and googled everything i can think of to find the actual numbers of people said to be sicken by reptiles... every site concerning the u.k. would only list american numbers instead of those from the u.k.... i find that strange that several sources about reptile caused illnesses being transmitted to humans and the dangers and precautions lack specific numbers... a couple cases from there were cited but that was it...

do they have numbers to back up the claims about reptile borne disease and humans?

... i would think there should be a problem, backed by statistics than just a threat of disease... they have every other number in great detail except for human infections from herps... 


... anyone have the stats on this??.. i'm just curious... and why use american stats???


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## SleepyD

hi Habu ~ don't know if this will help any hun but could try the following link ~
Salmonella and reptiles
British Chelonia Group: SALMONELLOSIS
and if you go here -> Defra, UK - Search
and scroll down to Zoonoses Report 2007 (http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fa...z/zoonoses/documents/reports/zoonoses2007.pdf) and click it you'll get the pdf copy of the report


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## Corvidae

hogboy said:


> It wasn't illegal
> it wasn't underground
> There were no 'health risks'
> 
> And i especially love this bit
> 
> _Experts in public health warn that venues at which reptile markets have taken place may be contaminated for up to three months afterwards._


 Oh yes, there were snakes crawling on the floor and swimming in the toilets, don't you know.


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## Utter Nutter

HABU said:


> could someone help me here?... i've been trying to look up the statistics for illnesses linked to reptiles in the u.k.... i can't find any numbers... i've been on all kinds of sites and googled everything i can think of to find the actual numbers of people said to be sicken by reptiles... every site concerning the u.k. would only list american numbers instead of those from the u.k.... i find that strange that several sources about reptile caused illnesses being transmitted to humans and the dangers and precautions lack specific numbers... a couple cases from there were cited but that was it...
> 
> do they have numbers to back up the claims about reptile borne disease and humans?
> 
> ... i would think there should be a problem, backed by statistics than just a threat of disease... they have every other number in great detail except for human infections from herps...
> 
> 
> ... anyone have the stats on this??.. i'm just curious... and why use american stats???


I know that there are stats in this months (well November!) issue of Practical Reptile but they only quote people that have suffered injuries from retiles, not diseases. 

When is this 'lovely' young woman going to either get a life or get laid? She must be frusrated one way or another else why is she still bothering us law abiding citizens?:hmm:


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## Malti

Utter Nutter said:


> I know that there are stats in this months (well November!) issue of Practical Reptile but they only quote people that have suffered injuries from retiles, not diseases.
> 
> When is this 'lovely' young woman going to either get a life *or get laid*? She must be frusrated one way or another else why is she still bothering us law abiding citizens?:hmm:



most men and women would rather be castrated, or tortured in any horrible way...


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## eco_tonto

Surly she must suffer from psychosis or a similar affliction, as i refuse to believe a supposedly educated full grown adult can lie like that, she must believe what she is saying right? Other wise she can only be likened to a spoilt child desperately lying at all costs to get there own way.

Ms Toland and her organization are pathetic, and there lies and poor attempts at bullying and manipulating the general public will be there down fall.


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## Captainmatt29

We need to find a way to prosecute her because that'd giver her a dose of her own medicine and i think she is talking bull.....we could always goto her offices and protest but thats not gonna do much.

If we all unite she will never win and only then will she see she is wasting her time, i still think that we need to find a piece of law to do her for though as her meddling is out of order....perhaps we could claim she is harassing the hobby as thats a big deal


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## Pete Q

Read again.




Connie_F said:


> *International Animal Rescue News*
> 
> September 2009
> *School of excellence: legal captive bred animal dealing at Shenfield High School*
> 
> Shenfield High School has been publicly congratulated for its part in giving the go ahead for a reptile show that took place on Sunday 27 September 2009, at which legal trading of captive bred animals took place. Reptile groups and societies across the UK are now calling for an inquiry into the lies and slander spread by animal rights groups in relation to this reptile show , and will be carrying out their own investigation, into the bullying and hassment of pet keepers and the AR groups role in keeping the truth hidden from the authorities.
> The school originally announced that it had allowed the event. But a hunt did begin for the venue after organisers had been threatened by these animal rights groups. Public appeals for information on these AR groups were made and the police, as well as officers of several councils across Essex , spent considerable time searching through their contacts to track down these bullys . Some councils even made out-of-hours provisions in case they turned up in their areas. Early on Friday afternoon, the FBH received a tip-off from a reptile keeper that they would be spreading their lies at the event and they had plans to intimidate people at the original venue, Shenfield High School. The school, however, refused to confirm or deny that the event was taking place there due to these fears.
> On Friday afternoon, Brentwood Borough Council were aware that the event would be taking place at the school and reptile keepers did warn that the AR group should stop these illegal actions or face prosecution if this imtimidation continues.
> The school was made fully aware of the legal situation regarding reptile markets and also the truth around the health risks involved in staging such an event. Our team of reptile keeper investigators attended the show where countless criminal intimidation were observed and recorded. The school, must be congratulated for standing up to these bullys. It's a scandal that due to these lies and harrassment from this AR group, time and public resources were wasted in tracking down this event and that Shenfield High School was unable to provide information to them that could of endangered innocent people.
> Conditions at this event were typical of all reptile shows and would have been a great place to buy a reptile as the hall was full of reptile experts they could pass on their experience.Under current legislation, animals are and can be sold and the reptile societies and welfare organisations are working hard to ensure that the needs of the animals are met and this abuse from this AR group is stamped out. Experts in public health tell of the lies spread, that venues at which reptile markets have taken place may be contaminated for up to three months afterwards of which there in no everdence given after many years of holding these such events.
> The Animal Protection Agency is an organisation focused on making money, and has no interest in public health.
> _For more lies, please contact Elaine Toland on 01273 674253_.


Or, for the truth, please contact the FBH.


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## gregmonsta

Pete Q said:


> Read again.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, for the truth, please contact the FBH.


Genius :lol2:


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## Connie_F

Pete Q said:


> Read again.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, for the truth, please contact the FBH.


I do like that a LOT :2thumb: You never know, if Elaine sees this, you may get a nice threatening, personal letter from her too! (I should really frame mine :lol


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## Malti

Connie_F said:


> I do like that a LOT :2thumb: You never know, if Elaine sees this, you may get a nice threatening, personal letter from her too! (I should really frame mine :lol


you're lucky :gasp:


how does one become member of the FBH?


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## MJ75

Connie_F said:


> I do like that a LOT :2thumb: You never know, if Elaine sees this, you may get a nice threatening, personal letter from her too! (I should really frame mine :lol


I'm actualy really quite envious! lol

Are you able to post the detail. Apologies if I'm being nosey. lol


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## andy007

Anyone fancy taking their Monitor for a walk :whistling2:
http://www.internationalanimalrescue.org/media/downloads/dogwalk09-poster.pdf


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## Malti

andy007 said:


> Anyone fancy taking their Monitor for a walk :whistling2:
> http://www.internationalanimalrescue.org/media/downloads/dogwalk09-poster.pdf



what about a gator? present for it could be a pooch sized one :lol2:


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## andy007

Be interesting to see whether they all "pick up" after their dogs?? And whether their dogs have access to fresh water, and they are all vaccinated to stop the progression of any deseases. And whether their dogs are secured properly and safely in vehicles??


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## HS

Maybe we should send some of our 'undercover investigators' to their events.


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## boidae

best advice i can give you right now is not start a *war* or compete.


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## andy007

I think the *war*, for want of a better word, was started a long time ago by the IAR. I wouldn't call it a war, more random libalous personal attacks on respected and conscientious private reptile breeders, misquotes of Council officials, and untruths about the legal guildlines concerning Breeders meetings.


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## Ozgi

Pete Q said:


> Read again.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, for the truth, please contact the FBH.


That was genius. Please please send it to her somehow!

I'd love to read the threatening letter you received Connie! 

How many supporters does this mad old witch actually have? How many people were protesting at the show? Is it really enough to warrant us doing anything about it? lol.


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## Pete Q

Connie_F said:


> I do like that a LOT :2thumb: You never know, if Elaine sees this, you may get a nice threatening, personal letter from her too! (I should really frame mine :lol


Just goes to show if you say it right how powerful it can look.
They get people on side with this sort of thing, we can learn from this.
We can be big and powerful to, demand investagations and so on.


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## ratboy

They are trying to make venues to scared to allow shows to be held there.

Note the wording in the paper report about the school. They stated that if they had known there would be this much hassle when the booking was made, they would not have allowed it.

It's not the health risk etc, it's the bad publicity that gets raked up by these morons when they allow the event.

This is not silly !!! It's intimidation ... a great tactic for getting it so that people are too scared to let us hold shows.


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## AuntyLizard

Connie_F said:


> I do like that a LOT :2thumb: You never know, if Elaine sees this, you may get a nice threatening, personal letter from her too! (I should really frame mine :lol


Connie surely if the letter you recieved from Ms Toland was indeed threatening(no disrespect intended), then would you not have ground's for legal action against her/and her group

Mark


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## eddygecko

I go to this school and although somehow i had no idea about the event i can safely say the main hall is not underground.:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## crackersparow

:bash: all of this makes me laugh i saw the undercover morons asking at a stand if any were wild caught at one of the gecko stalls. and no the show was not underground steps into the school and steps into the second hall? 

nothing better to do with there time :devil:


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## Meko

i think some people need educating on what 'underground' means. Also, just to clear something up for them; the 'black market' isn't run by African Americans.


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## Ozgi

Meko said:


> i think some people need educating on what 'underground' means. Also, just to clear something up for them; the 'black market' isn't run by African Americans.


:lol2:


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## Malti

Meko said:


> i think some people need educating on what 'underground' means. Also, just to clear something up for them; the 'black market' isn't run by African Americans.



:lol2::lol2:


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## ghostcornsnake

i didntg go to that expo but if it was so secret and "undeground" then how come loads of us no about it duhhhhhhh lol what a heap of s:censor:te


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## Mujician

I wasnt aware this kind of thing happened! If someone has a belief, there is no real way of changing their mind. Why dont we use similar tactics like like thay have done do dispell all these myths. There are all walks of life on this forum, including vets and teachers. We could easily rally round newspapers (and Im sure there will be someone on here that works for a newspaper!) and some decent PRO stories saying that most things in the press is rubbish. Written by, or with a vet would give some weight to the argument. Rather than the claptrap that this animal protection thing is coming out with.


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## Cockys Royals

What utter bull............... I went to that show & was happy to see that the doormen asked for receipts, and made sure that nothing untoward was happening. As for illegal underground dont think so, but I do know that authorities as well as g,ment have their own illegal transactions going on anyhow .
Oh I cant be ar$ed. Sod em nowt wrong with the show damn red goons...


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## Dave-Flames

If its so underground them wouldnt that make erac like the a-team? whos gonna be mr t?


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## Kev132

Dave-Flames said:


> If its so underground them wouldnt that make erac like the a-team? whos gonna be mr t?


quit yo jibba jabba !


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## RawrIsDinosaurForILoveYou

Anyone actually emailed for pics yet?
cause i will if noone else wants to


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## vickylolage

You know how the APA have their own website for all their for want of a better word "reports" can we have one? For our counter reports? You know pointing out its not illegal, that shes insane, have our experts point out places arent contaminated for up to 3 months etc etc

What do you think?
Im useless on computers but I can write reports just like her
They loved me in English for creative writing


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## Fixx

vickylolage said:


> You know how the APA have their own website for all their for want of a better word "reports" can we have one? For our counter reports? You know pointing out its not illegal, that shes insane, have our experts point out places arent contaminated for up to 3 months etc etc
> 
> What do you think?
> Im useless on computers but I can write reports just like her
> They loved me in English for creative writing


I would hope that the likes of the FBH/IHS would have this sort of stuff on their websites.


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## Pete Q

vickylolage said:


> You know how the APA have their own website for all their for want of a better word "reports" can we have one? For our counter reports? You know pointing out its not illegal, that shes insane, have our experts point out places arent contaminated for up to 3 months etc etc
> 
> What do you think?
> Im useless on computers but I can write reports just like her
> They loved me in English for creative writing


It's a good idea, FBH will be willing to help. Link at the bottom of this post. Also this group BEKS - Educating Britain About Everything Exotic are working on this sort of thing and I'm sure they would welcome the support.


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