# English Adder bite



## Kamike (Aug 3, 2009)

Hello

I went to the Manchester Invert and spider club meeting today, we were given a talk by a chap called Don Stenhouse who works for the Manchester and Bolton museum and his passion is Entomology especially beetles. 

Whilt going through his slide show and talking about various field trips he showed us a picture of a rather manky looking hand, turns out he had been bitten by an Adder whilst counting how many different species of bettles were living in the area.

His hand was very very swollen and looked to be covered in big red blotches as we as it causing permenent damage to the finger that got bitten (it not wont bend and looks kinked). I didnt get chance to ask him any questions so I thought Id ask in here.

What other effects if any would or could he have suffered?


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## Spuddy (Aug 24, 2009)

There was a thread posted on here in the DWA section not so long ago, about a guy who had got bitten by a Common Adder.

I cant remember all the side effects, but the one that stood out for me was 'Temporary Blindness'.


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Different people seem to have different degrees of reaction.
If you are bitten early in the season it is said you are more likely to get a worse reaction to the bite then a bite at the end of the season.
Some ( lucky ) people get only a very slight reaction and I understand dry bites have been recorded.


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## Dragon Wolf (Oct 27, 2009)

I got bitten on the hand by a Common Adder when I was 13, i was looking for Slow Worms and it really was a case of mistaken identity as i grabbed it. I ran back to my next door neighbour who in turned panicked and rushed me down to the hospital [I was more likely to die in a car crash than an Adder bite at this point :gasp:]

I saw a doctor, pretty quickly who administered something [no idea what, it was a long time ago]. My hand swelled up like a balloon, turned a sort of bluey purple and hurt like hell, also it became very stiff and i had trouble moving my arm, wrist and fingers for over a week.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Dragon Wolf said:


> I got bitten on the hand by a Common Adder when I was 13, i was looking for Slow Worms and it really was a case of mistaken identity as i grabbed it. I ran back to my next door neighbour who in turned panicked and rushed me down to the hospital [I was more likely to die in a car crash than an Adder bite at this point :gasp:]
> 
> I saw a doctor, pretty quickly who *administered something [no idea what, it was a long time ago]*. My hand swelled up like a balloon, turned a sort of bluey purple and hurt like hell, also it became very stiff and i had trouble moving my arm, wrist and fingers for over a week.


Probably antihystemine and anti biotics : victory:

People have died from adder bites, the last being in 1979 I think.

Reaction can vary greatly from a bee sting sensation to anaphylactic shock and death. :gasp:


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## Mememe (Feb 15, 2009)

paulds said:


> People have died from adder bites, the last being in 1979 I think.
> 
> Reaction can vary greatly from a bee sting sensation to anaphylactic shock and death. :gasp:


Actually, people die relatively often from adder bites - 1979 being WITHIN Britain, but on the continent it's a lot more recent (and this is considering that Adders rarely come into contact with humans).

They have a really quite toxic venom, and you do not need to be allergic to die from a bite, nor do you have to be elderly or a child. 

I would argue bee sting symptoms tend to occur from residual venom on the fangs.

The cause of death is generally from a massive drop in blood pressure, and you can be unconscious within 5 minutes.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Different people seem to have different degrees of reaction.
> If you are bitten early in the season it is said you are more likely to get a worse reaction to the bite then a bite at the end of the season.
> Some ( lucky ) people get only a very slight reaction and I understand dry bites have been recorded.


I believe that is a common misconception unless you know of a paper on this?

The issue with all venomous bites is the amount injected, the condition of the person bitten and so many other factors that there is no way of predicting out come.

Perhaps the biggest problem is those halfwits who state that the bite is like a sting!

Having been on the receiving end I believe its fair for me to comment.

Hospital is a must for anyone getting a Vipera berus bite!


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## Tom26cambs (Mar 25, 2010)

Mememe said:


> Actually, people die relatively often from adder bites - 1979 being WITHIN Britain, but on the continent it's a lot more recent (and this is considering that Adders rarely come into contact with humans).
> 
> They have a really quite toxic venom, and you do not need to be allergic to die from a bite, nor do you have to be elderly or a child.
> 
> ...


 Just picked up on this thread i was bitten last year im a 17st 26 yr old healthy and do a manual job and it bloody hurts 3 days with a numb arm but it only got one fang in and pulled away fast so wasn't at full potential so in my opinion it really depends on the volume of venom age size of person and there general well being


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> I believe that is a common misconception unless you know of a paper on this?
> The issue with all venomous bites is the amount injected, the condition of the person bitten and so many other factors that there is no way of predicting out come.
> Perhaps the biggest problem is those halfwits who state that the bite is like a sting!
> Having been on the receiving end I believe its fair for me to comment.
> Hospital is a must for anyone getting a Vipera berus bite!


Nope must admite I know of absolutly no offical papers on this and the information is only based on what I have been told by a forresty worker who was bitten more than once and others he knew who had also been bitten.
Apparently it is common when cutting back bracken in some areas.
Maybe I should not have said "I understand dry bites have been recorded" and simply said some people have had no reaction at all to the bites.


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

Here is a BMJ article from 1976 regarding bites etc..

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2265610/british-medical-journal-1976-vipera-berus-995k?da=y


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## pandamonium (Sep 25, 2009)

LeviathanNI said:


> Here is a BMJ article from 1976 regarding bites etc..
> 
> http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2265610/british-medical-journal-1976-vipera-berus-995k?da=y



When I was 6 I was on holiday at my grandparents house over the holidays while walking the dog on a hot sunny day ( agging behind the group since I didn't really want to be there lol) spotted something shiny in the grass and while on my way to go see what it was felt a sharp pain in my ankle ... after some screaming and crying as any 6 year old little girl and my gramps scooping me up and rushing me to A&E turns out I was bitten by an adder and boy did it sting... it was red and swollen but from the sounds of it I didn't get a full bite.

Gramps explained when I'd calmed down that I had scared the poor little snake while tramping through the grass... and I've been hooked ever since, I understand I was incredibly lucky. Could have been lots worse.


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Nope must admite I know of absolutly no offical papers on this and the information is only based on what I have been told by a forresty worker who was bitten more than once and others he knew who had also been bitten.
> Apparently it is common when cutting back bracken in some areas.
> Maybe I should not have said "I understand dry bites have been recorded" and simply said some people have had no reaction at all to the bites.


If someone has no reaction at all following a bite then the assumption has to be that it was a dry bite.

Berus venom is actually very potent, its just the size of the snake and relatively small amount produced and available for use that limits the risk.

If said forestry worker is getting bitten regularly then he needs to open his eyes?

Still this is a good threat, how you keeping Stephen?


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## Loxie (May 11, 2010)

My friend's mum nearly died from an adder bite :/ She was taken to hospital in time so it didn't happen. But she said it felt like she wanted to be sick but nothing came up, and the bite (on her leg) felt like something was moving about painfully under her skin. She was fainting etc and had huge headaches, but I have a feeling she had a particularly nasty reaction to the venom.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

ok after reading this i regularly see adders in the road and in the garden and ive always just picked them up gently by the tail and then put them out the way somewhere as i didnt think they were this dangerous and just like a hornet sting or a weaver sting think il be using the spade to slide under them then put them in the fieldfrom now on. any one give me an idea how venemous they are compared to other viper species. i personally have been had surfing by a weaver and its the worst pain ive ever felt its like a red hot poker in ur foot that aches for days and only goes with a bucket of red hot water


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## 50%man50%biscuit (Mar 17, 2009)

Lend me a board for 2 hours and I'll teach you how to move them safely without a spade 

HMHB


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

lol il teach u how to surf the big stuff if i got some hands on snake handling i love snakes and love the idea of being in control of something venemous and potentially deadly a bit like my facination with guns (ak47 in prague made my year lol) basically anything that gives u that buzz that ur alive i have a 400bhp drift car too but im absolutely shit scarred of getting tagged and that puts me off i never realised how dangerous adders were i always thought its like getting stung by about 50bees makes u feel like shit an hurts but not deadly odd thing it ive never even been struck at i remember one day sitting on the cliffs watching the surf deciding which beach to go to felt summint tickling my foot (was wearing reefs (flip flops to everyone who dont surf) looked down and there was an adder tasting my foot with its tounge not aggressive posture nothing i just slid my board between me and it and then tailed it and put it in the heather are they not know for being agressive ??


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## Al Hyde (Jan 6, 2008)

I have just got off the phone from a lifelong friend who wishes to remain anon'
He was bitten , both fangs full hit by an adult male adder 3 weeks ago . Before entering the ambulance his heart stopped and had to be kicked back into action. In hospital his tongue became swollen and was preventing breathing.
I do not have the full story as of yet as he does not drive. I will be driving to him as soon as it is possible to create a full report of the bite and symptoms

Cheers,
Al


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

er ok i def wont be touching them again lol say compared to rattlesnakes how venemous is an adder ??


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## SteveCourty (Oct 4, 2009)

this has been interesting ive been researching sites of late to try and watch some. I now know ill be going to hospital if I do get tagged. I was the same as most I just thought it would be nothing more dangerous than a sting providing of course your not allergic. so what would the procedure and treatments be at a and e? do all hospitals stock the relevant drugs?


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## Kalouda (Sep 1, 2010)

mikeyb said:


> er ok i def wont be touching them again lol say compared to rattlesnakes how venemous is an adder ??


Both are gonna pack a punch but a adder has less fatalities but doesnt make it any less dangerous than a rattlesnake as it can cause alot of damage. However I'd suggest staying away from one in the wild, they do pack a punch. Unfortunately they are the only venomous species i've never come up close with. *sad face*


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## Kalouda (Sep 1, 2010)

SteveCourty said:


> this has been interesting ive been researching sites of late to try and watch some. I now know ill be going to hospital if I do get tagged. I was the same as most I just thought it would be nothing more dangerous than a sting providing of course your not allergic. so what would the procedure and treatments be at a and e? do all hospitals stock the relevant drugs?


There are mainy antivenoms for the adder, there is not much to worry about on that front, surely should seek medical help straight away, you'd be taken to hospital, if needed though you'd be flown to the nearest hospital that stocks anti venom (liverpool is well known) there you will be monitored.

No bee sting at all, again, I have no experience of being bitten by one or any venomous.


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## mikeyb (May 8, 2011)

living in cornwall i know for a fact most vets and hospitals down here carry adder antivenom i used to live in st agnes on the north coast of cornwall and theres an adder sanctuary right behind the football pitch so we got used to removing them from the pitch before a kickabout


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## terciopelo_dave (Jun 1, 2007)

I've heard the potency of adder venom compared to everything from western diamondbacks to russell's viper, but as Graeme said, the small size of the snake limits how much venom can be produced and subsequently injected. Regardless of that though, it's not a snake you'd want to be bitten by.
The thing to remember with them though is that they will always try to avoid conflict. They do not want to bite you and will try to escape at every opportunity. Bites generally only occur if the snake is picked up or otherwise prevented from fleeing. They are very timid and retiring so bites are fortunately rare.
The common misconception that gets thrown around is that all serious adder bites are due to allergic reactions. This is certainly not the case. It is impossible to be allergic to something you haven't been previously exposed to, so if it's your first bite and the symptoms are severe, it's all down to the venom. To suffer an allergic reaction you'd need to have been bitten previously, or been exposed to aerosolised venom. This usually only happens to people who regularly extract snake venom though. I've also heard anecdotal evidence of sensitivity occuring in people due to exposure to venomous snake faeces, but none of these are likely in the average adder bite victim.
Finally, with regard to the bite being more severe early in the season, I can't see how that would be possible. Snake venom gets less potent if the snake isn't feeding as it isn't being "topped up" with dietry proteins, so a snake just out of hibernation will have more dilute venom than a snake that has been feeding all summer. Therefore the opposite would have to be true, and a bite later in the year would be more severe.

Dave


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## johnc79 (Feb 29, 2008)

Common adder?? I wish that was true these days!


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