# Can I Keep 15 Female Leopard Geckos Together In A 75 Gallon Tank? How Should I Set Up



## Sarahannbyington (Dec 9, 2016)

I'm Planning On Setting Up My 75 Gallon Tank With Lots Of Hides & Live Plants & Rock Ledges & Adding Up To 15 Baby Female Leopard Geckos Of All Different Morphs. Will This Later Be A Problem? Also, When Setting Up The Tank What Live Plants Would Be Ideal? Would Dirt Substrate Be Okay Or Sand If Fed Outside Of The Tank? What Temperatures Do I Need For The Tank? What Type Of Lightbulbs, Lamps? Whats Best To Feed Them, & Vitamins? What's All Recommend? Let Me Know, & Thank You!


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

For 15 females I think your asking for trouble to be honest. If I was to cohab leopard geckos I may consider 2 females, 3 at a push in that dimensional space . I think the big trick with cohabitations is mitigating competative factors, and not all bullying comes in the form of fighting (females can be dominant too) I think it will be difficult to monitor each and every single individual in terms of how much food they are eating, weight, and over-all will be very complex to assess each and every individual even if you worked with increasing utilizeabe surface area. (even if they are okay together) This is just my opinion though and I wouldn't recommend it. 

Lighting wise you have a number of options. 
Some owners just use heat-mats for heat, others like me beleive that reptiles should really be warmed direct from above with a spot lamp, any of the E27 PAR38 bulbs connected to a dimming thermostat and temperature setup with a good digital thermometer should be effective. 

UV wise, some owners don't provide it, but offer oral supplementation with vitamin D3 in it which is important for calcium absorption (do some research on it) though it is much safer, easier, and a little more natural to provide UVB and allow them the chance to self regulate, it depends on which sources you read but you will find controversial views on both sides. If this is the first time you will be owning leopard geckos I would go for a UV tube. Personally I wouldn't use anything less than a 5.0 tube from most common brands, though others are using stronger and more powerful lamps appropriately distanced, again it depends which source you go with, its more to do with distancing than actual percentage. I actually did see an amazing video a while back with a product designed by Arcadia which was origionally for birds, it can easily be fitted into an enclosure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVCBaNoVUBA

Whether you use UV or not will determine what supplements will be best to use. It's becoming more and more accepted to be better to provide it, and this would be something I would suggest a new owner to go down. In which case you want supplements that don't contain additional vitamin D3, like the Arcadia Earth Pro. A. 

If your not using UVB. You want a good quality multivitamin dust that carries vitamin D3, and I would use it personally on every single feed, with additional caclium carbonate and D3 left in a cap for self supplementation as and when required, (even then) some owners have hit problems so UV with this species is your best choice to minimise any risk of illness as much as possible. 

Diet wise, a good variety of crickets, locusts, meal, morio, roaches can make good staples (providing you feed them with some veg before feeding) *gutloading) you can increase the nutritional content by dusting with a good quality multivitamin as discussed above. Those staples can be supplemented with other insect varieties depending on where you source your food, foods such as calci, and silk worms can be fed a little more regularly. 
Anything like wax worms can be fed occasionally as additional variety or a "treat" food. 

Personally I would use a substrate of soil and sand mixes, multiple hides, caves, and hidey areas, cage furnishings to climb on and over, ome rocks some moss in another hide to create a humidity gradient. 

This being said, this advice would be only for 2-3 cohabiting. Please do some research if your not sure of there care, there are plenty of advice threads on here in the search function, a lot of care websites, videos on youtube and you can find some groups on fb that are willing to help. 

There are differing groups though, some owners choose to keep them very basic, you will read and encounter some conflict ion, my advice would be to question everything your unsure about with your sources and it will help you make an over-all more informed decision. 

Hope this helps. 
Dixon. 

P.s, I wouldn't house 15 geckos together though, there will be a lot working against you.


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## Sarahannbyington (Dec 9, 2016)

I Was Thinking About How Many Geckos That Really Is, But At Max Would 8 Be Okay All Together? Also, I'd Be Feeding Them Separately.


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

Sarahannbyington said:


> I'm Planning On Setting Up My 75 Gallon Tank With Lots Of Hides & Live Plants & Rock Ledges & Adding Up To 15 Baby Female Leopard Geckos Of All Different Morphs. Will This Later Be A Problem? Also, When Setting Up The Tank What Live Plants Would Be Ideal? Would Dirt Substrate Be Okay Or Sand If Fed Outside Of The Tank? What Temperatures Do I Need For The Tank? What Type Of Lightbulbs, Lamps? Whats Best To Feed Them, & Vitamins? What's All Recommend? Let Me Know, & Thank You!



This sounds like a really bad idea, you're asking about some pretty basic things which suggests quite heavily that you dont have much experience with keeping Leos (if any).

Maybe get one, see how you get on, learn about keeping them and then once you have a year or so experience, know their exact requirements, know their habits THEN maybe think about a bigger project, but even then, 15 in a single viv is a bad idea. Even in the wild they do not form colonies like this.


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## Sarahannbyington (Dec 9, 2016)

Matter Fact I've Had Leopard Geckos Before, But Only Pairs In 20 Gallons, But Never Went Out On A Branch To Make It Like A Natural Set Up, & Just Recently Got A Large 75 I Was Planning On Getting Quite A Large Pair Of Them, Just Curious How Many Would Be Okay. I Was Told I Could Have 1 Gecko Per 5 Gallons, I Was Curious About That, But Thinking Maybe 1 Per 10, So 8 Geckos In A 75 Gallon. Sorry If You Thought I Wasn't Educated At All On Them. All My Leopard Geckos I've Had Were Healthy, But I Never Spent A Lot, & Didn't Believe I Was Making It Best For My Past Geckos, So Got On This Forum To Question That.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

There is a lot working against you and other geckos when doing it on that scale. I have done cohabitations for the last 5 years with a variety of species. Even with species in minimal dimensions a lot of other owners may frown on but they worked for me, that isn't to say it would work for others which is why I don't share those experiences very often. 

Aside from feeding and food competition. You need to consider where they will sit for thermoregulation (basking) for how long etc, are they going to utilize the same hides at the exact same time, and how many? these are competative factors, it could be very stressful. Minimum dimension space is all controversial and varies from source to source depending on who you listen too. 

I have never housed more than 4 of anything together at anyone time (5) in my bigger and larger enclosures in the case of iguanas, but I personally can see problems occuring on a cohabitation of this scale. 
I am not sure how big the tank or enclosure is your thinking 75 galleon after doing a search is roughly a 4x18ft vivarium, so your dimensional space your thinking I expect will be within similar dimensions. I consider 15-8 far too many geckos for a vivarium of this size. At a very push I wouldn't go higher than 4, but ideally I would stick with 2-3. (sorry if I am wrong about the viv dimension) but its just how I go with measuring viv sizes. 

Of course you could create a fake rock, and utilize more surface area which will allow for more options and space, or include in cage furnishings to help maximize the space, but what you then will have a problem with is making sure that each and every gecko is utilizing it to meet there needs. 

The probability of 15-8 geckos getting on with each other in the long term I think are slim, you would consistantly have to be vigilant, it will be difficult to monitor each and every single behavior. That being said, this is just my opinion, it isn't something I personally would do. I have only cohabited 2 female leopard geckos at anyone time, though in a 4x2 I may consider adding in another and at a very push 4 but ideally I would stick with two. 

Aside from this I couldn't advise you to house 8-15 together. With cohabitations there is a lot that can go wrong even with one or two half the time. 

Good luck though. : victory:


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Have to agree that it is a bad idea. In the wild they do not cohabitate and they have more room so no it is bound to lead to problems.


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## davy27 (Jul 17, 2011)

If you had done any research what so ever you would no not to mix leopard geckos you would also no about heat light food and vitamins do some research these reptiles can live for up to 25 years start small and build a collection all in there own vivs 

Sent from my XT1572 using Tapatalk


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## lozmick (Jun 24, 2013)

You can't house so many leopard geckos together I house my breeding trios in a 4 foot by 18" with 5 hides and 2 lay boxes and 3 mealworm dishes and even then I've had to separate due to bullying or dominance and try to rotate them around in some cases I've had to house some in their own vivs until mating time then move them back to their own vivs again you will be opening yourself to a nightmare and suffering of quite a few geckos


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

*Everyone relax*

It's amazing how negative people are to putting geckos together. Just start out with a couple and keep adding them. Give it at least a month or two before adding the next. I have 3 in a 30 gallon tank and they love life. I have water running and a fish and everything. Everyone is just crazy, they probably have an ugly one cave with a fake tree cage. Ever see what geckos that mate live in? They would love it. Check out my aquarium.

https://s29.postimg.org/7rkcaa31z/received_1506154479399098.jpg


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Jbach said:


> It's amazing how negative people are to putting geckos together. Just start out with a couple and keep adding them. Give it at least a month or two before adding the next. I have 3 in a 30 gallon tank and they love life. I have water running and a fish and everything. Everyone is just crazy, they probably have an ugly one cave with a fake tree cage. Ever see what geckos that mate live in? They would love it. Check out my aquarium.
> 
> https://s29.postimg.org/7rkcaa31z/received_1506154479399098.jpg


How long have you been keeping them? Running water and a fish and everything - :gasp:


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Over a year now.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Edit: I have only had the tank for about a month but my friend had the setup for over a year and then just gave me the geckos and the tank so they have been together for over a year.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Not long then.

They can be extremely territorial and bullying issues can occur which you may well not be aware of. Housing males and females together permanently will mean one thing unfortunately.

Lets hope that a fight/chase doesn't happen and one ends up drowned.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

They may all be females but not sure. 
Take a look and let me know what you think.
https://s30.postimg.org/yforfwjj5/IMG_20161215_080545.jpg

Also, I have heard a ton of success stories. They sleep together all the time. They are curl up and chill, they're all a bunch of friends haha.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Jbach said:


> They may all be females but not sure.
> Take a look and let me know what you think.
> https://s30.postimg.org/yforfwjj5/IMG_20161215_080545.jpg
> 
> Also, I have heard a ton of success stories. They sleep together all the time. They are curl up and chill, they're all a bunch of friends haha.


No, not friends.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Cool, glad you understand nothing.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Jbach said:


> Cool, glad you understand nothing.


It amazes me how many people are quick to apply abstract thoughts to animal behavior with there big human brains and state animals are "something" when it may not necessarily be so. 

Reptiles lack a complex limbic system, so therefore are improbable to associate/feel any of the emotions, "affections" one would expect other social animals such as higher mammals and birds to be, so how can they be "friends"? 

Even then, with some of the most reptiles with social hierarchies, dominance is often still established, in the wild, this often isn't a problem as there is rarely competition over resources depending on the species, but in a vivarium? you need to think carefully about what your putting into practice. 

It is important to provide for only there physiological requirements and ignore some of our inevitable anathromorphisms (such as placing UV and heat at a height and then making statements like "they love to climb" or putting multiples together and calling them "friends" once we see past these things, and look more carefully at them. THEN, we can apply preference and work within those limited levels of understanding which may include cohabitations. 

Throwing 8-15 animals together is poor advice. 
You know at work a while ago, the point was brought up that if people could start being held accountable for the advice they give online, how quickly the internet would clean itself up. I am not stating this is what you are doing, but your ideas are at best, erroneous and all of us, should consider looking more at what we are doing, rather than just being biased applying preference and then finding arguments to support it. 

p.s, I have had animals that have been housed together for years, and for the most part did get on, but then, there has been times I have to use my separation chambers because squabbling broke out or the time of year induced competition over favoring sites etc, not all bullying comes in the form of fighting either


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Jbach said:


> It's amazing how negative people are to putting geckos together. Just start out with a couple and keep adding them. Give it at least a month or two before adding the next. I have 3 in a 30 gallon tank and they love life. I have water running and a fish and everything. Everyone is just crazy, they probably have an ugly one cave with a fake tree cage. Ever see what geckos that mate live in? They would love it. Check out my aquarium.
> 
> https://s29.postimg.org/7rkcaa31z/received_1506154479399098.jpg



Hi, have you ever seen how these particular Geckos live in the wild? And if you aren`t sure whether you have males or females why are you talking about them mating in something like your enclosure, is it the water and fish that make them more likely to breed successfullly? 
Is this your first membership on this website, you sound a little familiar (maybe under a different username previously)?


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Jbach said:


> Cool, glad you understand nothing.



In all honesty, your understanding doesn`t sound that great...


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Hello,

I am very new to the forum and I do not have a lot of experience with Leopard Geckos but I have done a lot of reading and it's just frustrating when people say a direct no to when someone asks if he can keep multiple geckos in a tank.

I am not looking to bread, I am simply trying to name them and can't be sure of their gender yet. 

I have seen how gecko's live in the wild and I can confidently tell you it isn't in a 10 gallon tank and I also can confidently tell you that they are not being fed by hand every other day. Living in captivity is different. Animals do not have to fight over territory or food if they are all happy and life is just handed to them. Their are exceptions to every rule, I just think a 75 Gallon tank could possible hold a large amount of geckos and they may be able to all live successfully and happily. Not saying geckos wont fight in captivity but after a year of them living together nothing negative has happened.


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## murrindindi (Feb 19, 2009)

Jbach said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am very new to the forum and I do not have a lot of experience with Leopard Geckos but I have done a lot of reading and it's just frustrating when people say a direct no to when someone asks if he can keep multiple geckos in a tank.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply... You say that in captivity they don`t have to fight over territory or food, but surely they seek security within the enclosure and at times prefer to be alone, also, unless the keeper is going to feed them separately for 20 years plus there is likely to be competion for food on a regular basis (normally the prey would be left in the enclosure).
May I ask which part of their natural range you`re familiar with, and can you give some details of the temps and humidity in your own enclosure (and how you measure those) plus what type are the heat bullbs are you using, and number of basking spots?


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

One of my girls has a bad eye because she was a rescue. She can't see very well so I feed her a couple calcium covered crickets then let her hunt with the rest. I throw about 6-8 crickets into the aquarium every other day or at least 3 times a week. I dust most of the crickets in calcium. Most get eaten but their are always a couple survivors that eventually get caught.

I use a thermometer/Humidity scale in my tank. Like $9 at petsmart. Their is a lot more humidity near the water. They usually use the water pool to shed. I use 40w - 60w incandescent bulb depending on the temperate outside and in the house. One is on all day then the Purple night light kicks on at night. 

Temps range from 65-80. Heating pad underneath. Gecko's don't necessarily like to bask under lights. They aren't that type of geckos but I have multiple spots where the like to chill out at and sleep during the day or hunt at night.


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## lozmick (Jun 24, 2013)

You are a new reptile keeper? To house 8 leopard geckos together if it was me going to do it I'd make my viv say 8 foot by 4 foot with 2 foot height minimum even then they will be competition for heat hides and food, if you really want so many leopard geckos then buy multiple vivs to ensure each geckos gets everything it needs. You came on asking for advice so please listen to what others are saying


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## Azastral (Jun 6, 2015)

Jbach's viv does look pretty good i have to say, i really like the rock setup and the mini pool is a nice touch (although i would worry about possible drowning but then i worry too much anyway).

It is important to point out that there is a HUGE difference between 3 Leos in a tank and 10 or 15 (regardless of size of viv).

With each Leo you add you make the social structure in there even more complex, 3 may find a balance (and many keepers do keep pairs or trios together).

I strongly doubt they would find the same balance with 10 or more, in fact i would bet that there would be fighting and even if they settle down, you are going to end up with one or two starving to death unless you individually feed each one (regardless of how much food you put in).

These animals are not the kind of reptiles that form colonies, and even in captivity, that kind of behaviour isnt something that can just be learnt, its fighting against the entire way they have developed and evolved.

Jbach might be right, you may well be able to start with a pair, and add one at a time over several months, but i still dont think that you would be able to get that many in one viv unless you were willing to give an entire room over to them, theres simply not enough space.
One squabble is all it would take and without room for them to go off and find their own space its like putting them in a pressure cooker and waiting for it to boil.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Have I misunderstand Jbach but did you say you have 3 together? And you put 6-8 crickets in every other day? Surely that is not enough food for example geckos? And your temps range from 65-80f? That is too low even at the highest temperature?


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Lets just all start a Gecko fighting tank. Ya'll can come over and fight yours with mine hahaha.

Lots of people keep it at 65-80. Near the light it can hit 85. Farthest away 65 with a heating pad underneath. You think where geckos originated from it was always above 80 degrees??? Those Gecko chodes live in areas that can drop below 30 degrees. And I said 6-8 crickets for the two of them plus wax worms. The blind girl I feed by hand. Ya'll are crazy reptile freaks. You probably treat your geckos better than your own kids lol.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Jbach said:


> Lets just all start a Gecko fighting tank. Ya'll can come over and fight yours with mine hahaha.
> 
> Lots of people keep it at 65-80. Near the light it can hit 85. Farthest away 65 with a heating pad underneath. You think where geckos originated from it was always above 80 degrees??? Those Gecko chodes live in areas that can drop below 30 degrees. And I said 6-8 crickets for the two of them plus wax worms. The blind girl I feed by hand. Ya'll are crazy reptile freaks. You probably treat your geckos better than your own kids lol.


Well let us hope that one day you don't suddenly find that they haven't turned on one another.

As for your second paragraph - that really doesn't make sense. A diet with waxworms is not necessarily a good thing. The blind one should be housed on her own, as should the other two especially as one would appear to be male.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

I feed them a couple wax worms a week. They get plenty of food. They probably eat more than a lot of kids in Africa so I think they're fine. 

She has one eye.... Shes not retarded.....


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Temps may drop below the 30 as you say but the highest temperature they need should be the one that is provided regularly. Even 85 is too low you should aim for nearer 90. As for cohabitation many years ago I kept some females together with quickly male and it ended in disaster with 1 female dropping her tail and having bite marks on her body. She eventually died. Since then I have not kept them together. Sometimes we learn the hard way.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

So if they eat more than kids in Africa that makes it right?


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

I'll aim for a higher temp.

If he starts to bite I'll change it. We about to have little baby Gecko's and ya'll can't stop me haha.:lol2:


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Plus idk if the one is a male or not.


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## N8 Da Gr8 (Dec 16, 2016)

Jbach said:


> I feed them a couple wax worms a week. They get plenty of food. They probably eat more than a lot of kids in Africa so I think they're fine.
> 
> She has one eye.... Shes not retarded.....


I think its fair to keep them together. A lot of these mods are on their high horses criticizing what you do. Honestly, I think the temperature range is completely acceptable and the feeding seems appropriate - credit to you for helping the one with vision problems, most people wouldn't bother. If it appears they aren't getting along or are not enjoying the environment maybe its time for a change but until you see signs of trouble, I wouldn't worry too much.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

If the one is a male he's got really small balls :lol2:


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Great about the temp.

No we can't stop you doing what you want but at the end of the day all I care about are the animals and that they get the correct care. If someone listens then that makes me happy. You don't need to be so childish in your answers.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Being a mod is nothing to do with it. I am a reptile keeper first and foremost when it comes to caring about the correct conditions of these animals.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm listening BUT you and many others on this website are so one sighted. Where were these temperature tests done? Did scientists study how happy the gecko is by plugging it into a happy meter and when the temp hit 90 it spiked? Did some light bulb scam artists say 90 is recommended because he wanted you to buy more expensive bulbs? 

What survey shows that all males will eat the legs of females?
What survey shows that a couple wax worms a week will kill my geckos?
What survey shows that 3 crickets is better than 4?
What survey shows that if you have any water in your cage your gecko will drown?

Where they live now is so much nicer than being in the wild...

My point is, don't be so one sighted. Give suggestions, don't correct people unless they think geckos need to hibernate so they are keeping their gecko's in the freezer.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Jbach said:


> I'm listening BUT you and many others on this website are so one sighted. Where were these temperature tests done? Did scientists study how happy the gecko is by plugging it into a happy meter and when the temp hit 90 it spiked? Did some light bulb scam artists say 90 is recommended because he wanted you to buy more expensive bulbs?
> 
> What survey shows that all males will eat the legs of females?
> What survey shows that a couple wax worms a week will kill my geckos?
> ...


It's a bit hypocritical to ask for scientific evidence, despite having none for the method your applying yourself. 

There are times common sense plays a factor in determining what temperatures we provide, (optimum zones) where-ever in the world a species lives, the sun is not going to get hotter, or cooler, for example, tropical rainforest species, where-ever they are in the world will neither be closer to the sun, or further away from it along the tropical rain belt, so you can make resonable conclusions about the temperatures those species will get drawn too. It is widely accepted that the temperatures discussed, are genuinley far too low for ALL there senses and functions to work within optimum levels and a host of problems are well known to surface when kept in suboptimum conditions. 

None of us are one sighted, but there are definite do's and don'ts, and when keeping reptiles in a box, it is important to make the basking point at least, a point that will reach there optimum prefered temperature zones regardless of how much they use it. 



> We tested the hypothesis that thermoregulation increases growth rate in nocturnal lizards. Leopard geckos (Eublepharis macularius) maintained from hatching at 25 C grew at a rate of 0.11 g/day, while geckos allowed to thermoregulate at preferred body temperatures (30 C for 13.5 h per day) grew 1.5 times as fast (0.16 g/day). Long-term thermal treatment had a significant reverse acclimation effect on preferred body temperature (Tp): Tp was 1.2 C lower in thermoregulatory individuals than in those kept at 25 C. Feeding and time of day also had significant but monor effects on Tp Despite their nocturnal ecology, leopard geckos seem to be typical among lizards in requiring a diurnal heat source for maximal growth. This result provides a physiological explanation for the observation that some nocturnal lizards thermoregulate in burrows during the day, and may have implications for the biogeography of nocturnal ectotherms.


This was just from a quick search into google scholar, I am sure you will find quite a few interesting articles/papers or otherwise published work on there which supports this point depending on which source you look at. 
Behavioral Thermoregulation Increases Growth Rate in a Nocturnal Lizard on JSTOR

Hope this helps. 

Also, just on a personal note. Debbie was a keeper on this forum for many years and has always given sound constructive and helpful advice, way before she became a moderator. :2thumb:


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

It's not hypocritical. I was using those questions as a point that none of you have evidence as to how happy my gecko's are vs your gecko's. My gecko's are living successfully and its not 90 degrees up in their aquarium.

So the scientists are saying they grow faster if its 30c instead of 25c. Well I am glad my tank ranges from Hotter than 30c too just about 24c. This means they can go to the warm side if they want to grow faster ha.ha.ha. 

THIS WORK FOR MY ENCLOSURE because I don't need them growing fast. See how ya'll look at it one way. They are animals, they ADAPT to their surroundings. This post was all about if 15 LEOPARD geckos can live together in a 75 gallon tank not if a lizard can live together. Leopards have been known to successfully live together, end of story.

Also, thanks for you information on "Optimum zones". We are referencing Leopard Geckos, in this instance it does got hotter and colder. They don't live in a flipping Rainforest. They live among the terrorist in the freaking desert. Look up the weather report for where Leopard Gecko's would be found and I guarantee you'll be needing a jacket. You'd see a gecko living under a damn rock trying to survive and then you look at my gecko's and I guarantee he wishes he was under that lamp with a nice heating mat and free food....


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

Let me see your leopard gecko tanks. Show me how much more humane yours are than mine. Please and Thanks.


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

> Also, just on a personal note. Debbie was a keeper on this forum for many years and has always given sound constructive and helpful advice, way before she became a moderator.


Awwwww thank you hun. I think some people do forget that us mods do actually keep reptiles too.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Jbach said:


> It's not hypocritical. I was using those questions as a point that none of you have evidence as to how happy my gecko's are vs your gecko's. My gecko's are living successfully and its not 90 degrees up in their aquarium.
> 
> So the scientists are saying they grow faster if its 30c instead of 25c. Well I am glad my tank ranges from Hotter than 30c too just about 24c. This means they can go to the warm side if they want to grow faster ha.ha.ha.
> 
> ...


I am pleased to hear what works for you works, and to be honest, that interests me, but in my experience what animals require for digestion often isn't the same temperatures they require for ALL there senses, organs and immune system to work optimally. A species I am familiar with for example I would use is _Iguana iguana_ this species can digest at temperatures 29.8 celcius but for everything to work, they should be in the range of 43 celcius, and in my experimental experience, exposing my animals to the hot summer sun, they will intentionally seek surfaces into the low fifties celcius sometimes after being energized and warmed by the sun, this is often applicable across a broad range of sp. I have no evidence else at hand to show you my geckos are happier than yours, but this is generally common accepted husbandry and scientific knowledge. 

Again, I disagree with your second point, a quick search into this very forums search function will demonstrate, (type in leopard geckos) that every problem presented. (lack of appetite, lack of growth) etc etc, IS ALL husbandry related, including issues metabolic bone disease (which is an umbarella term used to describe hundreds of nutritional disorders) the only difference is on what time scale. 

I don't disagree that leopard geckos can live together, I cohabited two together for many many years (females) in a 3x2x2, but given the dimensional space which is only a foot longer, the OP was talking about housing 8-15 together, again the search function, and all advice contrary, and there natural history would suggest this isn't a wise idea, it might work, but I doubt the geckos would ever be happy (seratonin levels in such an exhibit) would be interesting to show. I can't see how a reasonable cohabitation can be done on this scale for all optimum performance in such a setting. Even on a space scale, (saying each gecko needs a bare minimum of a ft space, your total utilizeable surface area would be. 8ft on the surface? so how can this work? 

I am well aware they don't live in a rainforest, I used that as an anology to make a comparison too. The principle would be the same. 

Also you wanting to see my leopard gecko enclosures, I would be happy to oblige, I no longer keep leopard geckos, but I did do for nearly 15 years but all my photos are on fb, feel free to send me a PM and friend request and I will happily tag you into them. 

I agree no evidence would show that my geckos were happier than yours, but I would like to think, in this instance, common sense and experience would prevail that 15 geckos in a 4ft enclosure is a disaster and possible concequence. 

By all means to the OP, do it..... But don't say we didn't warn you of the concequences. 

It confuses me as an animal lover (that you would come to a forum for advice) and then still decide to do it anyways.


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## Creed (Apr 2, 2014)

To answer the question that started this thread: Yes, keeping so many animals in those dimensions is definitely a very bad idea. If you do fancy such a large group living together I'd suggest not buying any Leopard gecko and instead look into other (dwarf) species. Tropiocolotes is very interesting group a gecko's that do well in groups. 



Jbach said:


> It's not hypocritical. I was using those questions as a point that none of you have evidence as to how happy my gecko's are vs your gecko's.


Fortunately that's not how 'science' or 'evidence' works. Generally when someone makes a statement like:



Jbach said:


> . I have 3 in a 30 gallon tank and they love life.


Evidence is then provided that supports that claim. It prevents people from making unprovable claims. Like stating that something is less or more happy then something else.

For example:

_Leopard gecko's are known to be cannibalistic on occasion. Not only killing members regardless of sex; but also consuming them whole. As observed and described on multiple forums and in scientific literature. _

The first result on google scholar: Bonke R, Böhme W, Opiela K, Rödder D. A remarkable case
of cannibalism in juvenile Leopard Geckos, Eublepharis
macularius (Blyth, 1854) (Squamata: Eublepharidae). Herpetol
Notes. 2011;4:211-2.


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## Jbach (Dec 15, 2016)

*_*

Hello everyone.

You all are still wrong.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

Jbach said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> You all are still wrong.


Hello you.

You are still wrong.


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## lozmick (Jun 24, 2013)

Jbach firstly you are meant to be a responsible reptile keeper and need to grow up. 

Secondly you came on here and asked for advice the people that have given you their time to answer your question and you refuse to listen. 

Thirdly most of the people that answered you have been keeping reptiles for decades and know what they are talking about. 

Last but not least if you can't listen and do what you have been advised then don't post thinking you know it all instead keep it to yourself and document your findings who knows you might be the answer to everything and everyone


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## Debbie1962 (Dec 5, 2008)

Lol:whip:.


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## veektooru (Jul 16, 2016)

JBach is a troll, stop wasting your time.


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## Sambow (Jan 24, 2016)

How is this thread still alive?...


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## dave_the_rave (Mar 16, 2007)

**Those times you like someone's comment before you read it cuz you know exactly the same thought is running through your head.:whip:


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## dave_the_rave (Mar 16, 2007)

I think you have been given some very sound advice JBach. I can imagine your temptation to have a tub with lots of lovely things in there. I've made mistakes in the past as well as a lot of people but a real shame to make the mistakes on living animals - I've learned, and I'm a lot more compassionate about keeping nowadays, just listen to the experienced keepers!
I agree, geckos live for a long time - so bide yours : victory:


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## Cakes86 (Dec 15, 2016)

Anyone prepared to close this thread ? It's just a battle of wits and no longer educational for new members out there like myself.


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## supatips (May 29, 2012)

As above.

Perhaps you could use the ban hammer while you're at it?


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## Cakes86 (Dec 15, 2016)

supatips said:


> As above.
> 
> Perhaps you could use the ban hammer while you're at it?


Maybe we should just leave it that jbachs geckos seem to be living adequately at the moment to the best of our knowledge. No point debating exact temp ranges etc as each individual reptiles environment will always be different in the end so impossible to compare. As far as we are all led to believe lizards all have their own personality so hopefully we can also get along as well without fighting :2thumb:


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