# Reptile Shows and the law: Part Two analaysis



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

The following are a relatively complete guide to the suggestions laid down in this thread by those who have written here:

I will break it down further later today, time permitting;

REPTILE SHOWS AND THE LAW
THREAD DISCUSSION AND SUGGESTIONS​ 
Write to local MP

Listings of all local councillors nationwide

Letter draft formats

Easy system for how to go about contacting and what to do once initial fob off letter been sent.

Chair of FBH to stand down and allow fresh blood the chance to lead
Who would be proposed to take over?

Why risk losing all battles that are a working process to change what merely needs updating?

Tabloid/media interest

Contact local newspapers nationwide for coverage via their nearest reptile group.

Send a standard FBH issue letter to all tabloid offices explaining the situation and asking for a slot.

Get celebrity keepers on board

Which celebrities keep exotics?

Would any consider standing against the likes of RSPCA etc to show support for the hobby?

Recruit more people into the FBh to show support in numbers

How to recruit more people?

What are people going to get for their membership fees?

Incentives for people to join

Canvas all reachable reptile keepers nationwide

How to find figures for numbers?

Best methods of reaching those who don’t access the net

Focus on destroying and attacking oppositions’ reports/publications etc

Best political person to deal with this?

Best angle to approach without downgrading the hobby

Establish liaison teams for various areas of work – public relations, council 

contact, government/political contact, animal rights contacts

Who and how?

Commission FBH report of useful facts regarding issues

Could Chris put something together for both internet and non-internet use?

Attend shows throughout Europe to recruit new bodies into the fight
Where would the funding come from?

Who would be the best advocates for reptile keeping?

Influence the Codes of Practice that govern what can be done under the AWA

How? 

Get local reptile clubs on board to make more people aware of goings on and recruit more affiliates to FBH

Find details for all non – affiliated FBH groups

What about the groups who don’t show willing?

Basic Pro-keeping FBH flyer for pet shops etc

How to draft flyer 

Contact details of shops who are willing to help

Will livefoods suppliers get on board and send flyers out with their orders?

Better FBH communication for ALL affiliated groups and members

Get someone on board to deal with email newsletters etc

Details form FBh of all affiliated groups and members 

Fundraising ideas to aid towards FBH

Fundraising team?

Sponsors? Large reptile supplier companies?

Section on FBH site for business users to download leaflets etc

Draft up flyers for business use etc

Getting traders involved more

Sponsors

Discounts for FBH members as an incentive?

Breakdown of political jargon for people who don’t understand?

Drafted report in easy to understand bulleted points?

Page on website of political abbreviations?

Encourage people to design their own posters to put up in pet shops pro FBH

Maybe run an incentives scheme again – most referrals to FBH gets a free years membership?

Links on as many internet forums etc for FBh site

Contact all known reptile and animal forums, reptile supplier joint forums etc and request permission for a FBh link to go on

More incentives for people to WANT to join the FBH

Membership card discount scheme with larger suppliers

Bi-monthly newsletter

Competitions quarterly for free membership deals?

Loyalty scheme for long term members – maybe reductions after first 2 years paid up membership?

FBH magazine – free to members and for sale in pet shops?

Could get traders involved taking a small percentage of sales

Free for paid up members

Get it on Amazon – bi-monthly issues?

Getting younger people involved

Contact local primary schools in every area and get some mini competitions running

Representatives visiting schools for talk etc and free stuff for pupils

Create sub-site aimed specifically at younger members

Organise yearly national events (smaller ones locally) for youngsters to come with parents and chat about reptiles – talks etc 

More internet advertising for FBH

Recruit people to focus on advertising via the net 

Getting website optimised for google searches etc

More regular updates for FBh members

Mass email sent monthly to let people know what is going on 

Email notification of political changes that may effect hobby

Emails of when help is needed – FBH needs help

FBH tables at all major and local shows to increase awareness

Search for all shows and events that surround the hobby and get a table booked.

Local representatives to discuss benefits of joining the FBH

Flyers and info leaflets about FBh for prospective members?


FBH site page showing breakdown of what the membership cash does.

Random mailings, similar to RSPCA letters asking for donations?

Formatted page with a breakdown of the costs for the FBH 

Amalgamate FBH, IHS and smaller groups into 1 large power group?

Pros and cons of this?

How to distribute duties etc within amalgamated groups?

Creating a positive direction for people to follow

Best way forward

Is the doomy attitude putting people off getting involved?

FBH site update showing contacts for various areas of play

Listed contacts to show political, public, membership issues etc 

General enquiries page for those who are unsure

Several smaller meetings nationwide instead of 1 large conference?

Pros and cons of this?

Who would head each meeting?

Could Chris and Rory split the workload and maybe have 4 South meetings and 4 Northern meetings within a coupe of weeks?

Password forum area for FBH affiliates to use?

To prevent anti reading – charge subscription fee for unlimited access?

Car pooling system for conferences etc

Create list of those willing to car pool

Website with map for local rep group news

Postcode entry system to inform people of their nearest herp society/FBH affiliate/event

Generic letter to all affiliated groups/members "Statement of fact"

Listing issues that WILL effect us all and how people can help individually

Rory Matier PKL


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## jav07 (Apr 20, 2006)

all of them were suggested?
how long have you worked with chris?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Volunteered*

Hi, 

I do not work alongside Chris Newman as such.

I officially volunteered my services and the facilities of the TSKA brand about two years ago as l was and still am passionate about the hobby's and the industry. I spend possibly ten hours a week on the political side of things, and as said it is not a case of receiving a payment, for that is not what it is about.

Despite a held belief that there is a huge political team working, this is not the case, and the teams are slim.

[I think if people thought that in reality there may only be 100 persons all told fighting the battle against the opposition, they might, just might understand why things are not actioned directly, or some things are not done. Also, as Chris himself would say, volunteers do place themselves into a potential line of opposition fire, and this is one of the reasons that he will not demand help nor assistance from others. 

When working the political field, you do have the possibility that you could become a target. And this is something that not a lot of keepers, perhaps with family do not wish to place themselves into.]

We started advertising FOCAS very heavily on a few of the websites that are within the brand.

I try to keep abreast of the politics that is around and as a result of being helpful, get to know more of the politics - but this was achieved because of my interest in FOCAS and the introduction of the political websites within the TSKA brand itself.

I speak to Chris Newman, practically daily, and we help each other out on the odd occasion.

So it is not that l work with Chris, but assist and in so doing said that l would try and encourage keepers and fellow business members of the industry to see, highlight and display the problems we are facing within the actual market from the opposition.

I do so because l am a business within the industry and yes, like other business's would like to see a future with the industry and not lost due to apathy or opposition.

Two years ago this August, l adopted the website code of practice for what was then Piedipers Ark [website] and basically took everything from there.

I do not work on the FBH, for that is not what l was and am promoting, but l do freely advertise FOCAS.

All of the list were either suggested or hinted, and the researchers have added in some commentary of their own.

Hope this helps

Rory Matier


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Rory
If I might add three more items to your list.

1) Find funding for and put together a free quarterly magazine, high lighting the activities of groups like the RSPCA and Animal Aid and the work of groups like FBH, Focas etc along with links to web sites and information on joining/donating. This can be sent out to vet surgeries, grooming parlours and other places where general pet keepers find themselves waiting around. 

2) Set up a working group specificaly to fight the activities of the AR groups. This must include working with legal experts to check on the legality of AR activities, making sure that every opotunity is taken to get bad press for the AR groups well publicised and pushing the Government to review all legislation relating to the activities of extremist groups. 

Finally the real biggy
3) There needs to be a huge change in atitude of animal keepers about people being paid to protect their hobby.
Rory, in your post above you say
*I spend possibly ten hours a week on the political side of things, and as said it is not a case of receiving a payment, for that is not what it is about.
*Why shouldn't you and others who give up no end of spare time recieve some compensation for the work done. We are up against highly paid individuals who can happily dedicate all their working hours to destroying our hobbies. Until we begin to match this situation and find ways to fund our people so they can work full time on the job in hand we will remain the under dogs in this battle.

Gordon


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think it is surprising how many ideas there are but how little focused support there seems to be.

I agree, Rory, that many people would possibly worry about the implications of the oppostition if they were to become heavily involved in campaigning and that could be the possible reason a lot of petitions are signed anonymously - would I be correct is assuming that?

Cross posted Grodon - sorry


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

brittone05 said:


> I think it is surprising how many ideas there are but how little focused support there seems to be.
> 
> I agree, Rory, that many people would possibly worry about the implications of the oppostition if they were to become heavily involved in campaigning *and that could be the possible reason a lot of petitions are signed anonymously* - would I be correct is assuming that?
> 
> Cross posted Grodon - sorry


It's also the reason why people don't know the names of most of the people that are involved with the FBH and other groups. Several years ago some one suggested the FBH committee put together a news letter introducing themselves. Each member was asked to write their own contribution. We are still waiting for the first contribution to arrive.
In truth, if people are concerned about attacks from the Antis the best option is to work behind the scenes and stay nameless.

(I don't mind you cross posting Grodon just as long as you don't do it to me LOL)

nodroG


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## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

lol
Nodrog...grodon... lol


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Natrix said:


> In truth, if people are concerned about attacks from the Antis the best option is to work behind the scenes and stay nameless.


I sometimes find it quite surprising how open people are with their pictures, names, addresses and telephone numbers on forums like this one.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Tti*

Gordon is right, the truth is that if interested parties and players do not wish to be highlighted in the politics, then yes, stay behind the scenes.

The opposition, AR, antis, ALF, which ever names you wish to allocate to them have some extremely fanatical supporters as well as extremists, of course they do have the commoner supporter, but at the end of the day they believe with all their passions that we should not be keeping animals. We believe we should.

But because of the deep rooted passion both sides have this will always make for a warring.

The biggest problem l have with 'those that oppose' is that they always have the attack, but not always the logic of the attack. They will throw a comment in, but don't know the answer, so when faced with the truth, the extremist would then throw the next best thing in - attack.

In order for us to been seen as responsible, we must not attack physically, but logically. Violence is not always the first answer. Politically speaking, it is the last defence.

But Ratboy is correct, it is at times quite surprising how many persons do become very open on forums!

I said yesterday in my long suggestive post that l would break it down into an understanding, l have also sent Chris a copy of the list so that he can view and make comments.

I have taken Natrix's comments on board also, as indeed the pm's l have received in the last 24 hours.

As l have said, l can not pass comment upon the FBH, but will show the list in a fashion that might arrange for direction and motivation to those genuinely interested in 'joining the battle'.

We have attained 101 signatures as of last night in the PKL so l will be setting up the research team and look at various issues raised.

Rory Matier
TSKA Pro Keepers Lobby


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Letters to MP's*

The first four of the list:

Write to local MP

Listings of all local councillors nationwide

Letter draft formats

Easy system for how to go about contacting and what to do once initial fob off letter been sent.

Writing to your MP. This may be of some assistance;
TSKA Legislation | Right Politics, Right Now

As to the listing of all local councillors nationwide, l will look into this and see what is available.

Letter Draft Formats; As for MP writing.

Follow up letter formats, l will also look into.

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Standing Down*

Well this is a personal viewing into this:

Chair of FBH to stand down and allow fresh blood the chance to lead
Who would be proposed to take over?

Why risk losing all battles that are a working process to change what merely needs updating?

Personally speaking, and of my own opinion, l do not think this is the answer. 

The answer is - yes - developing a finely tuned team to SUPPORT. Chris is but one man, one man only, there is a small supporting team, but how many people really understand what is involved in this position?

Chris is the best person to respond to this.

But as an ex manager for many years, this is not the answer.

Delegation of responsibilities and communications is the way forward as well as a supporting team, whom know what they are doing. With the right direction and motivations. This is what we should be looking at.

A younger team working alongside the existing team - yes.

Who would take over?

More importantly, who really would want to take on board this responsibility?

Support to make the job easier is as l say the way forwards.

The development of teams to handle different areas, and liase with the main supporting team, is the success key.

Updating rather than defeat and restart.

Yes, this is what needs to be looked at and discussed.


Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Outward Display*

Okay, as to advertising the 'word'

Tabloid/media interest

Contact local newspapers nationwide for coverage via their nearest reptile group.

Send a standard FBH issue letter to all tabloid offices explaining the situation and asking for a slot.

This is the best way, but this is the most costly.

An internet campaign needs to be adopted by all of the industry that have websites. The quote that 'it would be bad for business' is bollocks, pure and simple.

In my eyes what would be bad for business is no business. If we lose this battle, we lose the outright ability to trade full stop. Keepers could worse case scenario lose the ability to start as a keeper as well as continue as a keeper.

A landbased campaign, such as advertising in the national press, is a way forwards as indeed are the updating of the relevant societies, both in landbased fashion and internet capacity.

A team needs to be established that creates, designs and organizes advertising, marketing, promotions and communications display.

Landbased retailers need to promote the societies and the political messages to their client bases and new customers and buyers. When one does it alone, they stand out like a sore thumb and are often rebuked, but if everyone does it then the message is being delivered loudly and clearly for all to see, and then we have a flock of white sheep rather than a single herd of black sheep.

Marketing in terms of polls are a feature that need to be looked at, and we have an array of parties within the industry that have skills and traits to deal with this effectively instead of possibly recruiting an external business.

As to the FBH slot letter, this is something that needs to be addressed by the FBH directly.

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Well this is a personal viewing into this:
> 
> Chair of FBH to stand down and allow fresh blood the chance to lead
> Who would be proposed to take over?
> ...


 
I personally do not feel that Chris should stand down, too much would be lost through this, which would only benefit the anti's. More support for Chris and the FBH is the way forward, as Rory has said.


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

I personally would not be prepared to help should Chris not be head of the FBH


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

Maybe fresh blood is not the answer, only some help for the blood we already have?


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I agree that Chris standing down is NOT the best way forward. In all respect to him and his long suffering family - well come on, that is what they are! I know if my hubby was to devote the bulk of his free time fighting a cause that others simply didn't feel was worth the effort, I would eventually feel long suffering regardless of how much I agreed with him!

I think the key factor is getting other people motivated - this thread alone has proved that every keeper has a different idea and it is only by amalgamting the ideas we each have and sorting out the best possible way forward TOGETHER that we stand a chance of acheiving anything.

The ideas noted already have been wondeful - some really good ones there and some great offers of help by the likes of Pam, Ssithso and others - website updating is a major thing I guess as most people have brought it up.

I am happy to help out all I can - whether I have to put my neck o the line or not - my children adore reptiles and exotics and I couldn't bear the though that my lack of confidence and courage would prevent them form sharing the lives of such wonderful animals with thier own children one day


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## pam b (Mar 3, 2005)

Nah i havnt offered much, Chris knows how to get hold of me though: victory:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

pam b said:


> I personally would not be prepared to help should Chris not be head of the FBH


From the post Chris made outlining who he is and what he has been doing I think he sounds ideal for the job. He sounds very experienced and clued up and personally would not like to see some other people take his place.:smile:


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

I’m sure Chris has days when the option of being replaced sounds good but the fact is, at this moment in time he is not replaceable. 
Chris has been juggling the law, politicians, RSPCA, AWB, police, Antis etc ,etc for many years now. He has built up a list of contacts and earned the respect of many organisations and groups at all level of the hobby/industry and among the police, politicians and civil servants. 
There is nobody else currently in Chris’s position, if there was we would be talking about them now along with Chris. 
Anyone trying to step into Chris’s shoes will need to spend a lengthy period of time shadowing him as he goes about his daily tasks, getting themselves up to date on all the issues Chris has to deal with and getting themselves known and trusted by all the people Chris is currently working with. 
Fortunately, Chris isn’t broken, so there’s no need to fix him.

What I feel does need looking at is the support structure below Chris and this I hope is where the work being done by Rory will make a difference.

Gordon


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*On a side note...*

Looking through the 28 pages of this thread, l have noted the following writers and the amount of posts they have logged.

Quite a few players for what commenced as a small thread yet has aspired to a long one.

You viewing! Yes you, have you particiapated yet? If not, why not, your views as a browser are also wanted.

Chris Newman,
Si UK
Rory Matier
T-Bo
Snakes R Great
Wozza T
Cornmorphs
Tigger79
Dean Thorpe
Fixx
Gaz
We The People
Palamanda
Reticulatus
Jav07
Ratboy
Wohic
Emma B
Steve L
Sparkle
Rankindude
Alistu
Purejurrasic
Athravan
Pam B
Gargoyle
King Of Dreams
Peaches
Quixotic Axolotl
Hogboy
Ssthisto
Tops
Natrix
Stubby
ScottW
1949Sam
Andy

37 Players to this thread, now that is interesting.

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Additionally,*

Hi, 

How many of the readers have signed up for the Pro Keepers' Lobby?

Pro Keepers Lobby | "Left Wing Right Politics!"

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

I signed up yesterday Rory. Although the website is very slow to load.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Celebrity Status*

This is an interesting segment:

Get celebrity keepers on board

Which celebrities keep exotics?

Would any consider standing against the likes of RSPCA etc to show support for the hobby?

And one that has been viewed in the past by many l should imagine.

As to how you can actually get celebrities to attend to this support is the difficult issue.

There are more celebrities who stand against the keeping of exotics than there are those who are for it.

I am not saying by any standard that there are none out there, but locating them and then ensuring that they represent the communities is yet another issue alone.

Commercially speaking, l think most A class celebrities would be quite reserved in showing their support as it might damage their overall reputation in the popularity stakes. B Class celebrities might be the way to go at first, then we might attract A class.

Perhaps a task for a team might be to look into which celebrities own what and go from there.

I know J.Ross's son owns reptiles, but whether J. Ross would show an actual support to the hobby is a different thing altogether.

Some celebrity status might be achieved by those involved in the making of animal styled documentaries - yet to actually deliver a political stance message to those that oppose might be very damaging.

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*I Know*

Hi SRGreat, l know, l noted that about 3am this morning, and have still to submitt your entry today.
Thanks for your support

Rory


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

Hi Rory

Did you get the PM i sent you yesterday? Just be interested to know what you thought. 

Jack


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*The FBH*

Okay, well this is not my forte, but hopefully Chris may well come in at some point in response to this, and if that does not happen, then l will find out the or at least some of the answers.

Recruit more people into the FBh to show support in numbers

How to recruit more people?

What are people going to get for their membership fees?

Incentives for people to join

Canvas all reachable reptile keepers nationwide

How to find figures for numbers?

Best methods of reaching those who don’t access the net

Okay, well as l write this, l am also looking [no, not for the first time] at the website of the FBH.

TSKA the brand as l have said before constantly upgrades in order to make for easier navigation, make the aestetics more presentable, make browsing more easier and pliable. But then TSKA is in the main an internet based sales business, so my concentrated levels are to make the whole concept more explanative, and overall easier to the ye.

I can not pass direct challenging commentary to this website. The general viewings held and suggested by the writers here is that the website, needs upgrading, is that required or is it a case of an update and therefore informing the members of now and potentially new memberships of what is currently happening within todays' political community in so far as the hobby?

I think recruitment needs to be a campaign in itself with all the main societies, and at the end of this sypnosis breakdown, we should look into a more precise breakdown so that these elements and the supporting teams can be constructively drawn up and allocated.

So, recruitment drives need to inspire those already members and those looking to join, as to incentives, what then are the best incentives and desires to be met for people?

Canvassing keepers, okay, well apart from one of the easiest options available in todays' market is of course the internet, this is easy, websites that are already active need to be carrying membership forms or at the very least an active link into the memberships of the societies themselves.

Canvassing externally and more importantly landbased marketing, then this needs to be addressed as to how this can be achieved?

Many keepers - especially the veterans, are not all internet connected and this is a valid point that bears a great deal of weight, there are advertising mediums available, but one would have to look at receiving the best possible cost factor in return for the advertisement placed within that medium.

Shows, would of course be another option of marketing 'all' the societies, perhaps a further option would be to sell the brand rather than actually sell the membership to a particular society. 

But do we have a particular brand to respond to?

Could you not join one society and therefore receive memmbership to all the societies?

I think in order for this to be effectively worked, this is something that does need to be looked into very soundly.

Back to website management, well for those interested, TSKA will advertise all main societies and ask for nothing in return.

But also Rainbow Consultancy is about to launch a new advertising concept for all RFUK members - if you own a website, we will run an advetorial for you - free of charge.

The logos of the societies plus that of FOCAS should be shown on all websites, this is not a political move designed to lose you business, but it is to create brand awareness.

I will talk to Chris about the website suggestions and hopefully either get him to respond, or respond with his response.

Rory Matier
TSKA PKL


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> TSKA the brand as l have said before constantly upgrades in order to make for easier navigation, make the aestetics more presentable, make browsing more easier and pliable. But then TSKA is in the main an internet based sales business, so my concentrated levels are to make the whole concept more explanative, and overall easier to the ye.


Still find it difficult to navigate and difficult to read though Rory, always have done since the days of Piedipers. I think you need to simplify it a bit mate.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*I have*

Hi Fixx, 

I have simplified the brand, and we are still in the process of simplifying all the websites, sadly however there is much to display, hence why the creation of the website subsidary sites.

So points taken on board Ray, and work still in progress.

R


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

With respect to the understandable desire for anonymity within the FBH committee. It might be an idea to create an "FBH Committee" member on the forum with the password known to the members of the committee. This would mean that any member of the committee could respond to a thread without the need to let it be known who they are.

Just a thought


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## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

I signed up yesterday also.



TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hi,
> 
> How many of the readers have signed up for the Pro Keepers' Lobby?
> 
> ...


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## libertine (Mar 22, 2007)

I signed up as well


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## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

> Get celebrity keepers on board
> 
> Which celebrities keep exotics?
> 
> Would any consider standing against the likes of RSPCA etc to show support for the hobby?


 

A bit random, but Angelina Jolie used to keep pet reptiles apparently....



> Despite her parents’ divorce, Angelina remembers her childhood as being a happy one. She was a huge Star Trek fan, and showed her unusual tastes even at an early age, by having a crush on Mr Spock! Her taste in pets was highly original too, and she collected snakes and lizards. Her favourite snake was called Harry Dean Stanton, and her favourite lizard was called Vladimir.


 
The Biography Channel - Angelina Jolie Biography


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## Snakes r grreat (Aug 21, 2006)

Im sure we could get the hall packed if Angelina turned up at a meeting. :lol2:


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

With regards to celebrity keepers - I know johnathon Ross has a few reptiles and exotics - iguana, chinchillas, ferrets, salamanders and has also looked into owning fruit bats!

Leonardo DiCaprio owns a beardie called Blizzard whom he is very attached to....

LaToyah Jackson owns corns and is also very into reptile keeping....

Nicholas Cage has owned a wide aray of reptiles ranging form crocodiles, lizards and a boa constrictor.

We have a problem witht he amount of bad press swaying towards the likes of Pairs Hilton though with her fashion accessory int he form of a kinkajou - especially since she broke several Californian laws by owning it - I knwo she isn't in the UK mind but just a thought 

Shall try to research further today to find out who keeps what


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

brittone05 said:


> With regards to celebrity keepers - I know johnathon Ross has a few reptiles and exotics - iguana, chinchillas, ferrets, salamanders and has also looked into owning fruit bats!
> 
> Leonardo DiCaprio owns a beardie called Blizzard whom he is very attached to....
> 
> ...


_*To be honest, I'd be very suprised if we could get the likes of them to support especially when most of them don't even live in this country lol.

Like you said though, Jonathan Ross would be a good choice.*_


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Problem is ... everyone listed so far is A-List or at least between A-B. 

I think we should be looking more at B-E list since they will want to get their faces in the paper. I dunno... maybe some local radio DJ or even an MP or something ?


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

well, a subject has raised it head again in another thread, the EPS.

Having looked at what info I can find, it strikes me that the likes of the FBH and IHS should be helping thier members by providing clear info on this, whats involved and how to go about getting a licence, if its needed.

I guess at the moment there could be loads of keepers who fall foul of this, and it wont give the hobby a good name. Its not cos we dont want to or wont register them, just cant work out how !

THis is exactly the kind of info we, the general keeper need, but dont seem to be able to get !


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

Snakes r grreat said:


> Im sure we could get the hall packed if Angelina turned up at a meeting. :lol2:


 
Ill be there, and i could bring about 50 who would do whatever she told em too!!!:lol2:


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

living in berks, there are quite a few "morning tv celebs" that live in the area, cant seem to find any info on them keeping reptiles though......will keep looking.

Maybe someone who gets on really well with mark amie(sp) amizoo, could try and probe some info from him, he seems to do all the tv stuff in the uk.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

That would be a good idea Wozza 

I will keep searching the net et this morning and see about maybe contacting some of the agencies who deal with B and so on celebs to see if maybe they can point any info


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

wozza_t said:


> Maybe someone who gets on really well with mark amie(sp) amizoo, could try and probe some info from him, he seems to do all the tv stuff in the uk.


peterf might be worth asking too. He supplied the snakes used in Danni Minogues video.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Anti opposition*

Our next selection:

Focus on destroying and attacking oppositions’ reports/publications etc

Best political person to deal with this?

Best angle to approach without downgrading the hobby

Establish liaison teams for various areas of work – public relations, council contact, government/political contact, animal rights contacts

Who and how?

Reticulatus
"What would I do once I had completed the above?

Attack, attack, attack. The old line of "offence is the best defence" is very accurate. Put real time and effort into destroying every publication they have produced, every report they have commissioned and every court case they should not have commenced."

To be honest, l am not sure if attacking the anti establishments publications would be the responsible way of going forwards.

But even if we were to not take it at its literal sense, but another, we should be looking at those that oppose in a learning curve manner anyway.

Yes they have more funds, they are by far much better organised, they are more effective in their campaigning and they have been doing the latter for longer. They were on board with their one aim in life for longer than we have been actively involved in trying to save the hobby!

Their aim is for keepers not to keep anything, full stop.​ 
The ultimate goal.​ 
They are unswaying, in their determinations to stop us.

And this quote recently received says it all;

"Darkest answer... we are at the mercy of an AR controlled government"​ 
They do not suffer apathetic reaction.

We have people fighting them politically now. And we have organisations against them.

And there is no way to fight them without downgrading our hobby, we fight them, responsibly, logically and legally, our best offence is a strong defence.

Respect your enemy, find their flaws, that is the best offence. Have an army to fight against them, we are stronger by far than the opposition in sheer numbers alone.

But l do not deny that there is an absence of communications, information’s, motivations, direction, support and so on. But we must look at that first before anything else. And we are slim on the ground with actual working units. Also we are very slow to react, and to many have no real purpose behind what we do.

The opposition, are the complete opposite to us.

So whilst – yeah sure – we can attack, but to be honest – that is working their methods and not that of the pro keeper.

Rory Matier 
TSKA PKL

[Sorry seemingly l have the font size incorrect here!!]


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

We write our own reports. Might even be worth agreeing with the antis in some areas to show we are sympathetic to some of what they say but in total disagreement with other areas.

Get the Zoo's to write a report on the work they do with rare species.

Get herpetologists to write reports on the state of wildlife in areas as it really is.

Find someone who captive farms royal pythons and explain to us why it is a good idea and what they would like to see happen in the future.

Find people who introduce captive bred animals into the wild in a proper manner to boost wild populations.

Education.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> To be honest, l am not sure if attacking the anti establishments publications would be the responsible way of going forwards.
> 
> ............
> 
> So whilst – yeah sure – we can attack, but to be honest – that is working their methods and not that of the pro keeper.


I've been trying desperately to keep my nose out of this thread but a post like that just stirs the fight in me.

Rory,

We (as a hobby) are not respected by the government of this country. What ever respect we may have had is long gone. The ONLY way to get that back is to plod on, ever improving, so that over time they can see we are worth listening to.
Highlighting the problems with the AR people will not improve how the government perceive us by itself but it will show that we are learning from losses and gaining in strength. More importantly it may also slow down the process of the AR people gaining further strength within the government.

Oh and what's so wrong with using a tried and tested method if it works? Let's face it, nothing we are doing now is actually achieving anything when it really comes down to it.

Foundations people. We need to go back to square one and re-evaluate what we are doing and how it needs to be done. A decade with no real wins is enough working out what doesn't work.

The hobby, as represented by this forum, thinks the FBH is the body to carry us forward. They also see a great many fundemental problems though (as illustrated by Rory). So if we don't want to change the people, let's change the perception of the hobbiests, that's what really matters right now to gain support.

SO my suggestion would be a renaming of the FBH, along with assembling a team to fix all the current problems that the FBH faces BEFORE the name change is made official. Once the change is made, advertise until the whole country knows who they are.

A major newspaper advert costs in the region of £40,000. TV advertising can be done for £5,000 and reaches more people.
If people are concerned about where to get the money, borrow it from FOCAS, open an online shop for t-shirts, mugs etc etc, ask for donations (people are far more willing when they know where it is going).

Anywho, that's my updated suggestion :lol2: (a bit more N.G friendly?) so i'm off back to packing.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Good post*

Hi Dan, 

Apart from the renaming, a very good post.

Very accurate.

R


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## bribrian (Jan 12, 2006)

reticulatus said:


> I've been trying desperately to keep my nose out of this thread but a post like that just stirs the fight in me.
> 
> Rory,
> 
> ...


Great post, i'd also suggest radio advertising which reaches a greater & wider audience...........


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Red Ken breeds newts, he's mouthy enough to get the message across.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I think radio advertising is a good idea too - I am sure that with some calls and canvassing, we could get some free advertising form certain places.

Sounds a bit drastic but I know a couple of the women's mags my nan brings me each week (don't laught - my nan is fab ) have sections in for people who keep unusual pets - they print stories about their readers and their exotic pets. Maybe wortht hinking about approaching some of them - they pay YOU for the story which could be funds that went back into the FBH and such to covers costs of other forms of advertising


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Radio phone ins would be interesting... many local stations like Radio London have them. This does leave us a bit vulnerable to anti-keeping people arguing the toss... but it gets it in the public eye.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Advertising*

Admittedly, advertising does need to be looked at very, very seriously.

Dan and other writers have spec'd that on this thread and it should be adhered to.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Advertising 2*

But advertising is as l have said, a costly affair, and if an advertising campaign is to be reviewed then it must be done effectively so that we have the greatest return.

R


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Suggestions*

The next batch of suggestions from this thread involve the FBH.

Some are very positive, some are not.

I will attempt to highlight them as they are suggested, the writing is of my opinion based upon the suggestions, and may not be shared by all. But to be fair to all the readers and writers, they do need to be discussed openly, so that we can comment upon the content and know how to best move forwards.

Rory


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> But advertising is as l have said, a costly affair, and if an advertising campaign is to be reviewed then it must be done effectively so that we have the greatest return.
> 
> R


 
The most powerful advertising the Hobby as a whole has Is totaly without Cost. 'Word of Mouth ' Is a powerful marketing tool .


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*You are correct*

You are of course right, 

WOM, is still the most effective way of advertising, and as l have said tonight, advertising is an essential evil, however if people do not understand the words in the first place due to poor communications from the powers of control, then advertising does not matter in reality.

WOM without the right spiel is like a very bad game of musical chairs, too much eventually gets left out and one loses their spot.

R


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> You are of course right,
> 
> WOM, is still the most effective way of advertising, and as l have said tonight, advertising is an essential evil, however if people do not understand the words in the first place due to poor communications from the powers of control, then advertising does not matter in reality.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I think I may have my thick head on tonight but what exactly is it thats going to be advertised? 

Gordon


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Atm*

Hi Gordon, 

At this present time, nothing is going to be advertised in a landbased campaign.

Advertising or lack of formed a huge part of the suggestions that came forwards in this thread and as you know, the suggestions are being broken down and reviewed section by section.

Advertising should be used to eventually get the message across to a landbased community, but at this present time, my main focus is on the internet based community and making sure that the support is awarded where it is so required. In order to support the backbone of the industry, whom in turn with the right motivation, inspiration and direction can in fact support their own societies which in turn can successfully support the FBH and FOCAS and of course Chris Newman.

The infrastructure of the legislation needs to be advertised within the internet community first as this is our immediate audience to what is currently going on, and as l have said before, if our immediate audience numbers in the region of 60,000 readers [min] - all communities, fraternities, hobbies, industry, manufacturers, etc, etc, then this alone is an audience that can deliver the message to the first base of the landbase community.

However, there are way too many keepers within the internet audience that are not specifically geared up towards the current climate and its legislation. Therefore effective communications, advertorial and editorial coverage, showcase advertising needs to be adopted by websites supporting and promoting the industry in order for the likes of Chris, FOCAS, FBH, IHS, PRAS, BRAS, EARAS, BTS, and all the other societies to inform their memberships in an easy to understand layman method of what the legislation and all the procedures and policies in reality represent to the future of the keeping of animals etc correctly and responsibly.

This is currently not being achieved successfully.

If we are in turn to support our societies and federations then our keepers need to be better informed, so that the excellent marketing tool previously mentioned by WOHIC - WOM - Word of Mouth advertising - must be displayed by those powers of control who seek the industries support in the first place.

So in reality, advertising which is not needed immediately in an external internet camapign must be considered a requirement in time in order to strengthen the existing audience and therefore be used in conjunction with all other marketing tools in use.

The answer to your question therefore is this:

In time, the message to be delivered via an advertising media will be to the keepers of a non internet community, that their support and albeit financial support is needed to fight against the opposition. And that in so doing, we can successfully raise the required finances to fight for the keepers' rights to maintain exotic collections.

Rory


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Boy this thread is moving on a pace, I will read through all the posting and comment latter where appropriate. However, I will comment on the issue of advertising and promoting responsible animal keeping. Firstly this is something we do a lot off, I do quite a few radio and TV and other media interviews thought the year. The problem is trying to get good publicity, mostly interviews are in response to negative issues. The media still sees reptiles as ‘weird pets’ and seeks to sensationalise them. For example if a pet rabbit is found in the streets it won’t make the media, if a pet reptiles is found in the streets it is guaranteed to make the headlines, that’s just the way things are.

It is also much, much easier for the antis to get media attention than pro pet keeping, the other issue is once you raise your head above the parapet then there will be a load of AR nutters out there trying to chop it off. In the last 3 year there has been 7 major incidents at my home ranging from cars being burnt out to windows being smashed to animals being killed and other liberated. This is an issue that anyone interested in defending there hobby needs to consider, and carefully!


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## purejurrasic (Mar 18, 2006)

Very good points from chris !

Thats why I believe we need to get our house in order regarding compliance with current laws, infomation funneling and communication routes.

IF...we had a community of say just 10,000 keepers respecting a 'code of practice' getting clear consise infomation regarding our current commitments under the law, clear guidelines we voluntarily stick to, and supporting those who can no longer keep reptile..

just imagine how we would look as a group up against these brainless thugs. 

We would be a respectable group, there would be no reason not to at least listen to us, others may well be able to work with us, we would have something to promote to the general public


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*PKL Advertising Logo*

Hi, 

After much ado, here is one of the Pro Keepers' Lobby logo, enjoy.

Rory

[I have failed miserably to get photobucket on, so logo now below, lol]


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

*here ya go ....*


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

that'll be becasue you have not got my admin password for PB babe!

N


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Fbh*

*The following sections are aimed at the FBH, however l must stress the following:

I have known Chris Newman for roughly five years, from CV Media days when l was a novice in the community of forum writing to now, when in my own opinion l am still a novice in the politics and legislation that govern our hobbies. 

However, whilst l will be brutally honest as an outsider looking in, l write as consultant to a private client base whom are keepers and need to be informed of the current climate as indeed do all the other fraternity keepers whom are not yet clients or may never be clients to TSKA.

I write also as an advertiser looking at the FBH and the other federations and societies as a medium for delivering a message to their readers, buyers and browsers.

What follows are views in my personal opinion of the suggestions and ideas submitted by those whom are both contributing as well as writing within the confines of this thread.

I consider Chris Newman a good friend and a colleague. ‘He is a big boy’ and can take care of himself when it comes to ‘forum conflicts’ but l am a staunch supporter of this man and his ethos and principles and passion concerning this industry. I know him not to be a people persona, but know as said that his passion and dedications run very deep for this industry and the hobbies of all. 

I will not tear this man apart – but l will constructively take issue with the problems that are discussed. And he does know this.

Many of you are quick to criticise his working, his practice, his lack of communications within web content, but l would challenge many of the opposition within our community to one week in his footfall just to see how you stand up to the crap that this market presents to the enthusiastic.

That said, l will be criticising the way the market works, l will be looking at each and every suggestion and idea proposed with genuine interest and l will respond appropriately – some of which l write response to is aimed at the federations, the societies and of course the keeper.

Although this is the latter section of the suggestions, l will also be drawing in some of the criticisms from the threads commencement.

I am not a reptile keeper, [yet] but l am a keeper, and l am proud to be one, and l will not tolerate the obstructions of the oppositions nor the apathetic nor the oppressive government that we struggle politically against. I will fight for what l believe in, and l will fight like Chris and other political warriors for what you – the keeper believes in.

Rory Matier



Commission FBH report of useful facts regarding issues

Could Chris put something together for both Internet and non-internet use?

Get local reptile clubs on board to make more people aware of goings on and recruit more affiliates to FBH

Find details for all non- affiliated FBH groups

What about the groups who don’t show willing?

Basic Pro-keeping FBH flyer for pet shops etc

How to draft flyer 

Contact details of shops that are willing to help

Will livefoods suppliers get on board and send flyers out with their orders?

Better FBH communication for ALL affiliated groups and members

Get someone on board to deal with email newsletters etc

Details form FBH of all affiliated groups and members 

Fundraising ideas to aid towards FBH

Fundraising team?

Sponsors? 

Large reptile supplier companies?

Section on FBH site for business users to download leaflets etc

Draft up flyers for business use etc

Getting traders involved more

Sponsors

Discounts for FBH members as an incentive?

Breakdown of political jargon for people who don’t understand?

Drafted report in easy to understand bulleted points?

Page on Website of political abbreviations?

Encourage people to design their own posters to put up in pet shops pro FBH

Maybe run an incentive scheme again – most referrals to FBH gets a free year membership?

Links on as many Internet forums etc for FBH site

Contact all known reptile and animal forums, reptile supplier joint forums etc and request permission for a FBH link to go on

More incentives for people to WANT to join the FBH

Membership card discount scheme with larger suppliers

BI-monthly newsletter

Competitions quarterly for free membership deals?

Loyalty scheme for long term members – maybe reductions after first 2 
years paid up membership?

FBH magazine – free to members and for sale in pet shops?

Could get traders involved taking a small percentage of sales 

Free for paid up members

Get it on Amazon – BI-monthly issues?

Getting younger people involved

Contact local primary schools in every area and get some mini competitions running

Representatives visiting schools for talk etc and free stuff for pupils
Create sub-site aimed specifically at younger members

Organise yearly national events (smaller ones locally) for youngsters to come With parents and chat about reptiles – talks etc 

More Internet advertising for FBH

Recruit people to focus on advertising via the net 

Getting Website optimised for google searches etc

More regular updates for FBH members

Mass email sent monthly to let people know what is going on 

Email notification of political changes that may effect hobby

Emails of when help is needed – FBH needs help

FBH tables at all major and local shows to increase awareness

Search for all shows and events that surround the hobby and get a table booked.

Local representatives to discuss benefits of joining the FBH

Flyers and info leaflets about FBh for prospective members?

FBH site page showing breakdown of what the membership cash does.

Random mailings, similar to RSPCA letters asking for donations?

Formatted page with a breakdown of the costs for the FBH 

Amalgamate FBH, IHS and smaller groups into 1 large power group?

Pros and cons of this?

How to distribute duties etc within amalgamated groups?

Creating a positive direction for people to follow

Best way forward

Is the doom attitude putting people off getting involved?

FBH site update showing contacts for various areas of play

Listed contacts to show political, public, membership issues etc 

General enquiries page for those who are unsure

Several smaller meetings nation-wide instead of 1 large conference?

Pros and cons of this?

Who would head each meeting?

Could Chris and Rory split the workload and maybe have 4 South meetings and 4 northern meetings within a coupe of weeks?

Password forum area for FBH affiliates to use?

To prevent anti reading – charge subscription fee for unlimited access?

Car pooling system for conferences etc

Create list of those willing to car pool

Website with map for local rep group news

Postcode entry system to inform people of their nearest Herp society/FBH affiliate/event

Generic letter to all affiliated groups/members "Statement of fact"

Listing issues that WILL effect us all and how people can help individually

Is the FBH really serving the community?

Does the FBH need to restructure and revamp?

Does the FBH need to exist?

Do we have the right face?

Who/what is FOCAS?

Does not FOCAS address our needs as a community?
*


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hi,
> 
> After much ado, here is one of the Pro Keepers' Lobby logo, enjoy.
> 
> ...


I hate to say it... but does vaguely offensive, sexual imagery REALLY give the impression of exotics keepers we want to show? 

I know it's catchy and it's a technically well done image... but I wouldn't want to put that in my signature.

I've got something I'm working on at the moment that I will dig out when I get home that is more obviously exotics related and doesn't use crude mental images.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Well we are*

Hi, 

No offense to you, but we are being...fisted.

There is no polite way of stating that we are being screwed by the Government is there?

Let us stop beating around the bush by pretending that whilst we can be legally responsible and diplomatic, that we can not use roughness.

Plus, this is a campaign, all imagery will be used to deliver the message, and l too use images that are from keepers that pertain to the exotics also.

But your comments have been noted. I look forwards to seeing your images.

R


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

It's also worth noting that the fist is a sign of strength as used by Nelson Mandela's followers.

I am not equating what we are up against as anything like apartheid before anyone gets offended by that... just that the fist is a sign of strength.


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## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

I've got to admit that the logo/design is not one I'd be comfortable with putting up in my window etc...Just my opinion. I know where folks are coming from with it, but I'm not at ease with it.

And yes, the fist image is a sign of strength, I'm fine with the image, its just the image combined with the text that makes me uncomfortable.

On the other hand, each to their own. I'm hoping that maybe we get a selection of these and people can pick/use one that appeals to them. I know doing design stuff is hard work and I'm not wanting to pick someone's idea apart as reading the previous comments there are plenty of people around who like it and will use it.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Profoundness*

Hi, 

The whole purpose of the image camapign is to use what may illicit a response, but there will be others that we will be adopting that will speak volumes politically - and of course it will offer all ranges for people to adopt into their own comfort zones.



R


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## Stubby (Jan 30, 2007)

Excellent. I'm looking forward to seeing more as I'm looking forward to putting one (with a link) on my myspace page...there are many ways a logo/image can be used and once they're out there for people to make use of I'm sure we'll come up with places to put them that no one had even thought of before :smile:

(Hmm, that was probably at least one too many 'looking forward tos' in one sentence...)


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

going back to the radio advertising, do i remember correctly, johnny v on capital radio owns a british bulldog and is VERY passionate about his pets. could we not try him?

If someone was to let me know the best way of doing so, i would quite happily give it a go!


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

some other PKL images... more to come as time goes on

remember PKL encompasses ALL animals. our ability to keep is being challenged in all areas, and lets face it, most on here do not just keep "one" species..

technically, even a hamster or a budgie is classed as an exotic pet, being a non native species..


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

My humble opinion ?


The tombstone one has a massive impact compared to the others.

I really do like that.


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## wozza_t (Jan 4, 2007)

wohic said:


> My humble opinion ?
> 
> 
> The tombstone one has a massive impact compared to the others.
> ...


yeh, me too.
I work in a school, and have set it as a background on my P.C, lets see how many kids ask about it.....it's a private school, where the parents have one hell of an influance in sociaty!:grin1:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hi,
> 
> No offense to you, but we are being...fisted.
> 
> ...


How about this one:










If you DO want to use this one, please download it from my hosting and upload it to your own - I don't have quite enough bandwidth to share with everyone.

I want to do a better version of this one in Flash, with fade outs instead of horrible animated-gif blinks, but that'll take time.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Great*

Hi, 

I actually like that a lot, and yes, l would love to adopt this also into the campaign, with your permission?

Rory


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Hi,
> 
> I actually like that a lot, and yes, l would love to adopt this also into the campaign, with your permission?
> 
> Rory


Absolutely - I wouldn't have put PKL on it if I didn't want you to use it.

I would appreciate a credit on the site with regards to copyright on the silhouette images - my name for that purpose is C. Ssthisto Reid.


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> How about this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much better than the 'fisting' one imo.


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> How about this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

That is extreemly good ssthisto.
One to be adopted and used by many I would predict.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

wohic said:


> That is extreemly good ssthisto.
> One to be adopted and used by many I would predict.


Thank you.

And I very sincerely hope it is. I want people to know. I want people to realise that this doesn't just threaten "that weirdo with the pythons" ... it affects Granny and her budgies and Little Billy with his pet mice, too.

I don't have much hope that it'll stop the problems with the EPS affecting me up close and personal... but maybe it'll help prevent the same thing affecting everyone with a CITES/COTES species.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

I like the tombstone image. It makes it clear it's about animal keeping and suggests a threat to it. Stick a link under it and it'll certainly get positive attention from people who would be concerned by such an issue. Shame it's too big for a signature banner.

I really don't think enough thought went into that fisting image. Did no-one stop to think that it's going to be seen by children, the conservative middle aged and even granny with her budgies? How many people are going to find it outright offensive for being crude and vulgar? How many parents will be angry that it was thrown into a PG forum that their children read? There are enough horror stories about children seeing unsuitable content on the internet without Pro Keepers banners adding to them.

By lacing your 'advertising' with crude sexual inuendo you risk immediately alienating people that would have otherwise supported you. The image gives you NO information about what it's about or what the 'anti's' are anti about. It doesn't present the issue, threat, or prompt you what to do about it. If someone finds the innuendo offensive, they won't pay any attention to the small print, much less make the effort to type in the website for a look. Personally, I think it does more harm than good and is counter productive to the cause.



Toyah said:


> Most admit I switched off a bit when it appeared that "fisted" logo (which I just thought was a poor joke for the sake of the thread) appeared to be taken seriously.


My point exactly and that's coming from a KEEPER who has a vested interest in being in PKL favour. If it turns away your established hobbyist 'fan base' then it'll do even worse for the public image outside of that niche.


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

Advertising is not pretty, images that are used are there to get your attention quickly - the fisting one done that - Ok you may not be comfortable with it but it *is* a talking point....and that's what this all means.

(Look at road safety adverts - not nice seeing a kid knocked down but God it's powerful)

Advertising I agree is the most important thing *however* there has to be something to advertise. If this is about raising awareness of the FBH, then the place where we are sending people (i.e the website) has to be up to date and user friendly.........so IMHO the face (website) has to be one of the first things looked into.

Then advertise........and I agree getting suppliers to send out leaflets with packages is ideal. Even non-herp companies, send them details of FOCUS.

And shops....leaflets (happy ones if you likeI guess lol)

So for me...website....suppliers and shops...That would be my first target before spending out alot of money on the media.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Congrats*

Hi Peaches, 

Well done, advertising is a medium used to deliver messages and yes you are quite right the FIST-ING image has done what l wanted it to do. Create a talking point.

I am not saying that it will not be used in the campaign, but it can be used as an image to get peoples attention.

Many have adopted Ssthisto's logo and indeed so has the PKL - it is an excellent logo.

The fist will still be used as indeed with the 'ignorance is not an acceptable epitaph' tombstone, which serves its purpose very well and has done since its creation late last year.

TSKA has produced logos which are used to illicit and entice responses from readers and we will continue to that.

But for the time being as long as people are talking or even criticising the content of our images, then this is still advertising and is still serving the medium of promotion.

So, an image upsets, very true, but where as to be perfectly honest, the fist was not engaged to create a sexual inuendo, it was created to induce a power display and strength signal - which it did. 

But thankyou for your observation.

Advertising is not always about clean play, sometimes, oh yes sometimes you have to shock to cause a stir. Achieved then.

Your comments about the advertising are also valid.

Rory Matier


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Suggestions*

Hi, 
Just like to say that l am currently writing the response to the last section of the suggestions of this thread - hopefully this will keep those informed that have pm'd me of recent times to find out what the last post meant.

The post of a couple of days ago was purely to display to the reader that all the suggestions as well as a few new ones were being taken into serious consideration.

Thanks

Rory


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## King Of Dreams (Aug 4, 2006)

Onissarle said:


> I really don't think enough thought went into that fisting image. Did no-one stop to think that it's going to be seen by children, the conservative middle aged and even granny with her budgies? How many people are going to find it outright offensive for being crude and vulgar? How many parents will be angry that it was thrown into a PG forum that their children read? There are enough horror stories about children seeing unsuitable content on the internet without Pro Keepers banners adding to them.
> 
> By lacing your 'advertising' with crude sexual inuendo you risk immediately alienating people that would have otherwise supported you.


_*Just a point: 'Fisting' does not automaticaly refer to the sex act, getting fisted also is another way of saying 'getting punched in the face". TBH, only the people who know about the sexual implications would notice it (in which case I doubt if they'd be bothered anyway). 

It's not deliberately sexual, it does not mean anything sexual, anyone who thinks about the picture itself will realise there is nothing sexual about it and if there is anything sexual then it is merely coincidence.

There is no point for there to be more information, it is meant to grab attention, give a small hint about what it wants you do and provide a location where more information can be sought.

I think it's an ok picture, the choice of words is unfortunate but not neccessarily shocking or horrific.*_


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Fyi*

I am not quite sure why my reviewings of this thread cause so much unrest with some parties. I am dealing with the suggestions and as many of you will know l am currently working on and nearing the end of FBH direct suggestions.

It is relatively long in an answer but l have broken it up into several small posts. It deals with the aesthetics of the FBH in the main and also looks at some of the more direct questions to the structure of the FBH. I also concentrate on FOCAS as well as looking at some alternatives.

It concentrates on peoples views of advertising and promotions and Society incentives.

But first, the reason for this post:

I am a staunch supporter of Chris Newman, staunch as in: steadfast, loyal, stout, resolute in my belief in this man to do the job at hand. I do however firmly believe that he needs a strong team to support him in his role in order to achieve for the hobbies and the fraternities, success.

It has been made mention to that l am 'apparently gunning' to either 1] bring him down or 2] become the new face of the industry - neither of these statements are correct.

PKL 's main role is to offer an alternative to a society membership, or act as an addition to a curent society membership, it is firm in its resolution that keepers will be heard in a unified voice if they belong to a society or club, for it is the latter that should talk effectively for their members' concerns.

PKL is not involved nor wishes to be involved in the inner political conflicts that some societies share between themselves.

PKL is offering a new face to the industry - yes - a strong force to apathy and opposition itself - we are trying to introduce a New Face of Understanding.

We represent the keeper, the backbone to the industry - for without you, there is no industry. We do so using tools such as motivation, inspiration and direction - which is what the keeper has been calling for.

We are not going to treat you like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed 0n..., no that is not the way forwards.

We do not charge a membership fee, and in so doing do not offer incentives, apart from making you the keeper think for yourself whilst belonging to bigger team.

We do offer suggestions, and we will say join hobby society's and clubs, for as said this is the way for your voice to be heard.

But in the main, this is what we are about.

Our main role is to offer a portal for keepers to express their concerns with the curent legislation, political climate and laws that are threatening to kill off our passions.

The advertising we offer in support of campaigns is to arouse an awakening of keeper pride, so we will use tools and tactics that are not used presently and may [and have] be frowned upon.

PKL supports societies and clubs and indeed federations, but it is not - running for anything apart from that already mentioned.

So l do hope that my post here has clarified the points in a way that should inform those who oppose - and that now covers many fronts not just the originally thought of opposition, what we stand for, who we support and where we want to see things going in the future of the hobby.

PKL knows that there is no i in team, it is about team work, it is about raising the voice, and making sure it is heard, and above all it is about trying to do something.

Thanks for reading

Rory Matier TSKA PKL


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Final Analysis*

Reptile Shows & The Law
The analysis

I had originally thought of writing this response differently, but certain events and situations have caused me to respond in the way that l do now.

In an advertising capacity, especially for a campaign of this nature, l think first things to establish are:

1] Identification of the product or brand.
2] Identification of the markets to be served
3] Identification of those that are to be affected by the campaign
3a] Establishing what that market sector is looking for in the first place in order to be able to resolve their problems.

This response comprises the raised ideas, questions and suggestions aimed principally at the FBH – Federation of British Herpetologists and the overall running and management of its foundations.

Many ideas are purely driven by advertising, media, public relations, promotions, incentives, communications and so on, and as such a response was needed that would focus upon the weak spots and try and recommend results.

However, after much consideration and looking at the situation as it is, l find that FBH is not the main player in this game, for there are three contenders.

Because of this discovery, it meant that the first identification became harder:

1] Identification of the product or brand.

In an advertising and marketing campaign, identification is the main key to success, it makes for an easier media message and the deliverance of such far more effective if one is not working with a combination of brands, but one main brand.

Having one main brand, logo, identity is by far the easiest way for success to follow, for it allows those that you are advertising to easier understanding and acceptance rather than a twin branded product. Which creates a loyalty diversification.

The discovery l talk of is in fact that there are three contenders but only two brands. We do not need two brands, but one.

The contenders are:

http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/
 
Currently the FBH is a federation by name but not by structure
Its management is in disarray, as is the content updating on the Website.
It allows private membership from individuals when by UK societies idea of federation ruling should not.

It has affiliates and associates, when in reality all should be affiliated, and all should carry its branding, so as to show their full support. There are roughly 14 in total. It is also affiliated to FOCAS.

Societies [Herps] are currently unhappy with its infrastructure and are also calling for a reshuffle.


http://www.focas-uk.info/

Federation of Companion Animal Societies.

FOCAS is also a Federation, which does follow the correct structuring of the interpretation of Herps societies in the UK.

It has some 500+ affiliates none of which seemingly carry the FOCAS logo either?

It does not allow private membership.

It handles at best the politics surrounding the entire hobby.

It represents the voice of all Companion Animals and their societies.


http://www.international-herpetological-society.org/

The International Herpetological Society

The IHS would very much like to wear the Federation hat.

It is a long-standing society, founded in 1969.

It carries a recognisable brand with its logo.

It has some 1200 members.

It does host reptile shows.

So in a very basic introduction the readers need to clearly understand how the campaign had to look at the three contenders very seriously.

My campaign of both marketing and advertising to be created, designed and launched by the Pro Keepers’ Lobby is aimed at a campaign that will be known by the title of:

FOCAS on Unification: [the act of combining into one]

So readers should be able to understand very quickly where we are looking to direct viewers to.

If we wish to achieve true unification in this market, this industry, for all the fraternities we need to understand that a full union means that all fraternities appear under one easily recognised banner and all rally under that brand, to make for a much stronger force.

It means that all those affiliated to that brand are just that; affiliated: [An affiliation groups persons for the purpose of giving them access to services.].

There can be no space in today’s’ political market for divided parties, there can be no space for herptile and mammals in separation. United we stand, or divided we fail.

There is in reality insufficient time and energy for inner society conflicts.
Brand loyalty for this campaign must be in my opinion, adhered to one brand and all affiliated societies, clubs, etc cohesive, All must therefore belong to one Federation and not stand apart.

We either stand up and be counted as one now, or it will never happen and we will lose our hobbies, our fraternities, our business’s and our industry.

If there are differences of opinion about Chris Newman, he is not the brand, but the man who is to be supported through our darkest hour. Push aside your differences of opinions and join hands so that we may fight as one.

Part One: Rory Matier


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Final Analysis 2 of 3*

The bulk of the suggestions covered are in fact either advertising or marketing related.

Initially as l have discussed, there is/are to be three campaigns: 

*Internet*
*Initial Landbased*
*Landbased*

However, we must ensure that everything is covered in an Internet media campaign before launching into a possible ruinously expensive landbased campaign.

Irrelevant to what monies may sit in an account, landbased advertising is extortionately expensive and the demographics of the landbased media must be exercised to the fullest potential and give the best return. 

We have the facilities in terms of effective Internet advertising promoters, sadly and stupidly these facilities are just not being adopted. This confuses me, but it is an all too easy error to make.

And so to the suggestions:

*Get local reptile clubs on board to make more people aware of goings on and recruit more affiliates to FBH.*

FBH currently has 14 affiliates and one associate, so if the FBH were to continue then yes one of the options would be to try and take on board more affiliations to the federation in order to try and build a much stronger force.

It stands to reason that the more affiliates a federation has, then it should, have a much stronger voice.

*Find details for all non – affiliated FBH groups*
*What about the groups who don’t show willing?*

Well l am not too sure what one can do to groups and societies who do not wish to affiliate. But l think the way forwards would be for the federation to spell out the benefits of affiliation, and therefore encourage those same societies, clubs and associations to join their ranks.

I do not think any kind of coercion would work well on any independent club, so they must join in a voluntary fashion and be pleased to do so.


*Basic Pro-keeping FBH flyer for pet shops etc*

I think it is an absolutely imperative media move to concentrate upon this issue and this should be looked at as an ‘initial landbased campaign movement’. Perhaps the Pet Care Trust would and could be involved in this? But l think that this would be a perfectly valid idea to push towards both the federations.

*How to draft flyer *
*Could Chris put something together for both Internet and non-internet use?*

More than likely, and l am sure something can be arranged. Flyers of this nature are easy to design.

*Contact details of shops who are willing to help*
*Will livefoods suppliers get on board and send flyers out with their orders?*


Again this is something that is easy to do and researchers from PKL are already working on this.


*Better FBH communication for ALL affiliated groups and members*

I think that this is something that is being looked into, and it is critical in today’s political climate that must seriously be concentrated upon. But as much information and communications that is required from a federation to its affiliates, the latter are in turn also responsible for the same as well as showing a full loyal support.

*Get someone on board to deal with email newsletters etc*

Again, this is something that perhaps needs to be addressed by an external agency working closely with the federation in question.


*Details from FBH of all affiliated groups and members *

This is something that is available but not completed


*Fundraising ideas to aid towards FBH*
*Fundraising team?*
*Sponsors? Large reptile supplier companies?*


A helpful promotion team could possibly generate ideas and suggestions for the federation that so requested this.

As to sponsors, again, something that must be addressed, but each business must be ‘sold’ on the concept of why sponsoring the federation is beneficial to them. This may seem an absurd statement, but at the end of the day, businesses of all natures need to be convinced that if they are to dedicate finances into a venture then they are going to receive a return.

*Section on FBH site for business users to download leaflets etc*
*Draft up flyers for business use etc*

Yes, l think that each federation should in fact adopt this communication feature and this can be easily accounted for. Flyer construction, as for above.

*Getting traders involved more*

Right, well this is of course a very important suggestion, for it brings into being the principals behind believing in a brand. The UK is heavily founded upon brand management, however this industry is not so focused upon such a concept. They are not used to following to a brand. Buying into a brand is a different matter altogether, but actually following a brand, mmm.

As much as can be blamed upon the powers of control for not specifically informing all concerned about politics, the same can be said for retailers, traders and of course keepers.

So getting traders involved, is a two way process, getting the buyers from the trader involved and vice versa means that effective communications need to be established. Effective communications need to be in place from the powers, and then a network system can be developed and everything starts to fall into place.

I think what would be required is a retailers meeting or series of meetings to be arranged that explained ‘things of a political nature’ and the importance of all retailers ‘pulling together’. In support of the retailers, l think a media package should be developed, which explains the situation now that faces the market and potential problems for the future. More importantly, how it is going to affect them as a business within an industry that is not escaping the pressures anymore.

But also, more awareness and communications needs to be written and explained to the general animal keeper, in ways that can be easily read and not misunderstood. 

The keeper has, has been aware of political movements over the last ten years, but in many cases many have chosen to ignore the problems unless of course they affect them in any direct fashion or manner.

Far too many times are keepers only concerned when a ‘disaster’ or a new piece of legislation appears.

In defence, there are some excellent retailers out there in the UK already offering a very good service, perhaps workshops could be introduced? 

One store that comes to light and has been quite controversial in its actions and educational programmes is *Reptile Zone*, and l am sure that there are others that can and if asked to can assist in workshop development?

*Discounts for FBH members as an incentive?Maybe run an incentive scheme again – most referrals to FBH gets a free year membership?*
*More incentives for people to WANT to join the FBHMembership card discount scheme with larger suppliers*
*BI-monthly newsletter*
*Competitions quarterly for free membership deals?*
*Loyalty scheme for long term members – maybe reductions after first 2 years paid up membership?*

Well this idea is a little confusing. For if it refers to private individuals discount, then this is not relevant for there should be no private memberships. 

As to incentives for affiliates to join, simple, no industry, no future business, no profit – you decide?

*Breakdown of political jargon for people who don’t understand?*
*Page on Website of political abbreviations?*
Yes, l think this is a perfectly acceptable request, and l think a lot of websites, shops etc, should adopt it. But especially those that are affiliated to federations should adopt it.

But l think in all honesty, what really does need to happen is that all, ‘all’ those connected to a federation, need to take on board an accountability for the federation that they are affiliated to and this includes all associated parties as well.

All affiliates and associates should be 

*1] Carrying that federation’s logo, on all pages if need be, what ever size it needs to be presentable*

*2] All logos to lead to a page within each Website that highlights the federations news, this way we have in FBH’s case 15 Websites advertising the message and in FOCAS 500+ websites and venues advertising the messages and news.*

*3] Why this has not been already actioned is totally beyond me as an advertiser. Here we have in the region of possibly 750 venues, most of them advertising venues hosting and promoting messages to their members and readers, lost every day, in the internet, every minute of lost advertising is a complete waste of time.*

Time is of the essence, and we can not afford to waste it.

For this to work correctly, a small network can be established and the ‘news’ can be delivered both quickly and efficiently with very little error
.

It annoys me immensely that this has not been called into play. For if this had then up to four years ago more keepers would have been alerted properly to potential problems.

But then we do go back to the ignorance of the keeper which has caused the general feeling of apathy to arise within this industry.

*Drafted report in easy to understand bulleted points?*

Okay, this too is easily sorted, and is easy again to be released by all affiliates as well as federation/s. As for above.

*Encourage people to design their own posters to put up in pet shops pro FBH/FOCAS*

Of course this can happen, but the federation would regulate l think all would have to hold key features and messages.

*Links on as many Internet forums etc for FBH site*
*Contact all known reptile and animal forums, reptile supplier, joint forums etc and request permission for a Federation link to go on*

Again, l think this should have been adopted many years ago – but in defence of all societies and federations…..Really? You think with the ignorance and apathy that rules in so many quarters that Webmasters of forums and blogs that this would have occurred?

Even now, many keepers, readers, browsers and surfers do not want to be bothered with political. Let us take this forum alone, 2700+ members and how many actually participate openly in discussion? Of the 2700 how many actively write? In comparison to view?

How many political forums are there now connected to this industry?

Practically none, politics is a subject that is brushed under the enclosure with the shit.

RFUK is taking a chance with our presence alone, thankfully the Webmaster is thoughtful of the requirement and needs of those keepers that do wish to be involved and also only now is the time right for politics to be discussed carefully.

But l think that by RFUK allowing our presence, it may well serve as a message to other forum masters.

Part 2; Rory Matier


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Final Analysis 3 of 3*

*FBH magazine – free to members and for sale in pet shops?Could get traders involved taking a small percentage of sales *
*Free for paid up members*
*Get it on Amazon – BI-monthly issues?*

What magazine?

Have any magazines been published to date?

I think a magazine is perhaps over reaching, but perhaps a tie in with an already published magazine?

* 
Getting younger people involved
**Contact local primary schools in every area and get some mini competitions running
Representatives visiting schools for talk etc and free stuff for pupils
Create sub-site aimed specifically at younger members
Organise yearly national events (smaller ones locally) for youngsters to come with parents and chat about reptiles – talks etc 


*But of course, but this is not so much the focus of the federation, but that of all, keepers, societies, clubs, associations, animal educators. The young of today are the future keepers of tomorrow. It is ‘our’ responsibility to ensure that all the young are taken into consideration, and not left to the propaganda of our animal aid colleagues, whose educational curve includes the complete dismantling of all animals being kept in captivity.

*More Internet advertising for FBH/FOCASRecruit people to focus on advertising via the net *
*Getting Website optimised for google searches etc*

I would say yes, but if all the affiliates and associates to federations worked on this, then we already have a considerable advertising medium at work. But in addition to this all websites should carry a logo link.
* 
More regular updates for FBH members
**Mass email sent monthly to let people know what is going on*

*Email notification of political changes that may effect hobby*
*Emails of when help is needed – FBH needs help*

If this is referring to the affiliates, then yes all communications need to be corrected and managed efficiently, but l think this is one of the long standing complaints against the FBH

In defence, the FBH does not have a fully effective affiliate base, and a small team to enforce all that needs to be done.

But l feel sure that all societies in fact carry this out now for all their members. And of course the message here is that the private keepers should join a society of their choice or location and as such they would in turn be informed of all political movements that affect the hobby and industry.
* 
FBH tables at all major and local shows to increase awareness
**Search for all shows and events that surround the hobby and get a table booked.
Local representatives to discuss benefits of joining the FBH
Flyers and info leaflets about FBH for prospective members?
FBH site page showing breakdown of what the membership cash does.
Random mailings, similar to RSPCA letters asking for donations?
Formatted page with a breakdown of the costs for the FBH 


*l agree but also it is also down to each society and association to push this brand as well, for the federation. Each society is responsible for ensuring that private keepers join their ranks and in so doing, increase the strength of each federation’s voice.

Remember that Federations look for affiliations from clubs, societies and associations – not private members.

But if you are referring to the actual federation, then yes again a media package needs to be designed for potential affiliates.

I am not too sure if a federation needs to adopt this ‘what your money does here’ stance, but perhaps each society and club may wish to display this?

Regular mailings to the affiliates may be beneficial, pay per click style of advertising is typical affiliate promotion. Affiliates are kept up to date by monthly or promotional literature, the federation should adopt this style of communication. 

*Amalgamate FBH, IHS and smaller groups into 1 large power group?Pros and cons of this?*
*How to distribute duties etc within amalgamated groups?*

Well this is the ‘biggie’ – the almagamation of them all into one big power group.

Actually yes l do think this is what should happen – l think they should drop the FBH, and join with FOCAS. For the latter is the big power group that does cover all the fraternities, herptile and mammal. To allow the continuation of the FBH with all its ‘problems’ of communications and such would be l believe in my opinion a waste of time and resources. 

FOCAS exists now, it is there already. It is the big political voice. Chris Newman is both chair of FOCAS and the FBH, and can not be split between the two effectively. Unless, a more suitably qualified candidate is secured to the ‘chair’ position.

The campaign to be launched by Pro Keepers Lobby is entitled FOCAS on Unification, that in itself should at a glance inform readers where we are going with the promotional and marketing support.

The Pro’s – they are simple – it is there now – functioning correctly under the right management control, it is only open to an affiliation programme, and as such is not open to private individual keepers, the latter are to join societies, clubs and associations etc to be covered effectively. It has the strongest voice in the industry and has the strongest political brand and is easy for the industry to identify with.

The Cons – again simple – for those not wishing to be seen as connected to the other fraternities but wish to be clearly identified and recognised as herptile. For more control over the other societies of herptile.

This is the source of all inner political conflict – which is to run the FBH? 
If Chris Newman was to step down as chair?

*Creating a positive direction for people to followBest way forwardIs the doomy attitude putting people off getting involved?*

Okay, so it has been determined that people want to see a direction in which to follow.

Well for this to happen effectively, we need a leading brand to follow we need motivation, inspiration and above all we need to be able to feel that we are contributing and not just sitting around.

The best way forwards, is for keepers to recognise that there is a threat to this industry. And by so doing only then can the industry move forwards politically as a unified force.

Is the ‘gloom’ affecting peoples’ thinking? Does the scaremongering serve a purpose?

In many respects yes it does. For it arouses and illicits a response.

But to quote Dan Fryer

*"Nobody wants to hear doom and gloom all the time. We need either positive news or something to do in order to keep minds thinking about other things."*

He is also correct, but in order for this to be truly achieved, people do need direction, they do not need to be kept in the dark and fed on shit and in general, treated like mushrooms.

Motivate the keeper, the reader, and the browser, inspire them to contribute, assist, become involved in, actively participate, keep them informed, communicate to them.

This is where continual communications really comes into its own. This is where federations need to be stamping their imprint upon their affiliations and associates. Societies need to take a very strong political stance. 

They need to ensure that they are offering the right incentives and features to attract keepers of now and tomorrow – our future – for our future is now. If we fail to achieve results now, then we lose our tomorrows.

Websites in today’s commercial market ‘need’ to be creative, and they need to inspire confidence, they need to motivate. And this is just from the cyber market. In addition, they – societies and clubs need to ensure that they are of the right aesthetic appeal to all-potential members. 

*FBH site update showing contacts for various areas of play*
*Listed contacts to show political, public, membership issues etc 
General enquiries page for those who are unsure


*I wont answer these – but address it the following way:

If the FBH continues – it seriously needs to update, it needs to understand the principals behind a true federation. If a new chair is required then one must be found that can wear the federation hat in a complete way and not a domination role.

Is there a serious contender for the federation hat?

Is the contender the International Herpetological Society?

Could they run the federation successfully?

*They believe they could, they believe they should.*

However, in my opinion, l look at this one issue alone – their selling window is the Website – this is their window of international opportunity and how does it fare?

Sadly not well, could they successfully run the FBH? If with all its flaws and communication problems – could they take it over and turn it around? Could they encourage new affiliations to the doors?

Well l only ‘has to look at the Website for my inspiration and l is not a herper’.

How well would they fare with the other societies, would they have the respect required to continue the bond from the other affiliates?

They are a long standing society of that there is no doubt, they are not as old as the BHS but they are the ’layman’s’ society, they do host a lot of shows throughout the given year – but they are seen as not wanting a connection with mammals and this move already victimises a lot of their own keepers – who are not just herpers. 

And as such can not attend their shows with mammals – why not?
Is their committee strong enough and motivated sufficiently to run the FBH? 

These are questions l ask myself as an advertiser, are they strong enough to stand the politics? Will they represent the affiliation to the fullest advantage?

My questions, but these questions are asked by many.

*Several smaller meetings nation-wide instead of 1 large conference?*
*Who would head each meeting?
Could Chris and Rory split the workload and maybe have 4 South meetings and 4 northern meetings within a couple of weeks?
Car pooling system for conferences etc
Create list of those willing to car pool


**Listing issues that WILL effect us all and how people can help individually
*PKL are in the process of securing conference halls, in three locations, this is primarily due time of year, [fast approaching the conference season and pre-bookings]. We have currently secured one northern location, for the 3rd November 2007. 

Details can be found here

http://www.prokeeperslobby.com/eventmanagement.htm


Chris Newman will head the audiences and that there will be guest speakers present in support.

Car-pooling is something that needs to be discussed.

Listing issues, l think is a question that could be addressed at the audiences.

*Postcode entry system to inform people of their nearest Herp society/FBH affiliate/event


*I think that this is something that could be worked successfully into most society Websites?

So there we have it, the suggestions bar a few that were excluded covered.


The questions to be raised now are simple


*Does the FBH continue, with a serious makeover and improved communications and updates?*


*Does the International Herpetological Society don the federation hat and run the FBH?*


*Or does the biggest federation, FOCAS, take all the societies and clubs affiliated to FBH currently, into its own affiliation?*


As said, PKL’s campaign is predominantly aimed at FOCAS, recognising this as the biggest power player for the industry.


Thanks for reading
Rory Matier
PKL


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

It seems to me that all that should be pulling together are pulling against, that some do not understand, some do not have the time,some do not give a dam.

The Hobby should be as one, Chris has lent his support, some of the members here have also lent theres, its not a case of bringing other societys to there knees, rather a case of bringing to the forefront their faults in the eyes of their mambers and n the eyes of society as a whole.

Be honest, who glazed over when they started to read the above posts ?
who can genuinly say they understand ? Its a very serious issue and also very complicated, so it really is worth getting a cup of coffee , switching off the telly, and re reading the last two posts.

Rory,

In laymans terms, who is supporting us and who is against ?
where should our trust lie, to who should we be answerable ?

the IHS, the FBH, Focas......... its all we have all really had for a long time and some have added to the appathy with their complaciency, behind the scenes the likes of chris work endlessly to support the hobby, yet no one actually passes on the information to those that are being fighted for, so to them, it appears nothing is happening as the sites are stagnent.

I am actually supprised ther has been no input from Eddie (or have i missed it ?appologys if i have)


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Well addressed*

Hi Wohic, 

At last someone has broken the ice.

It is a long post, it is in some areas complex, but not overly complicated,

The bulk of the response is that the suggestions were dealt with.

There is to many a hidden agenda to the writing and this is not the case.

It is simple, but l will write a sypnosis later this afternoon, which will break it down into much easier understanding, and no that is not a stab against anyone on this forum.

Rory


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Sypnosis*

Principally, this post means the following;
Pro Keepers Lobby will be acting as a support team to FOCAS and in turn Chris Newman.
We will not be campaigning for the FBH as a federation as indeed they are an affiliate of FOCAS anyway.
The latter is in need of an immense makeover, and it must be decided by those involved with the FBH how they as a federation choose to proceed in this political climate for their affiliates, associate and for the individual memberships that they have.
The message to all keepers is simple, join a society, club, association whichever of your choice, and if you do not wish to join a current society then why not think about the Pro Keepers Lobby as an alternative or indeed as an additional to a society that you may already be a member to/of.
The FOCAS on Unification campaign is in its early days and there is indeed a great deal to be done in order for it to be effective. We have 130 odd supporters, and we are in need of more.
PKL is a hard line against apathy, opposition and ignorance.
We want to be seen doing something for the private keeper.
If that means rallying support against the European Protected Species act - then this is what we will do.
It means ensuring that keepers who do want to contribute to the future of their hobby and passion are able to do so in a constructive fashion.
The politics between the I.H.S and the FBH are theirs and theirs alone. PKL does not wish to conflict between either, but all l did was highlight that Societies feelings and emotion on this subject.
Advice to societies and clubs is do more to encourage keepers to your memberships, entice them and enthuse them.
Sadly the 90% of entire keeping hobby seemingly is only focused on attending society shows, where upon the purchase of animals can be found. Well let me say this, this ability is fast disappearing. Societies and clubs will find this harder to achieve without the help of a solid membership. 
The days of the show as Gordon posted not long back is going, memberships are dropping, the trust of the keeper to a society is vanishing. Now this is not purely down as a fault against the keeper, but society and also federation is allowing this to happen.
Why, because they insist on not really saying a great deal.
This does not help anyone, any one body, any one society or club.
WAKE UP!!
This is not scaremongering, this is fact. 
If you want to enthuse the keeper or hobbyist then make them part of this industry properly, not just by taking their membership fees and hosting the odd show – get them involved completely.
The industry is on the brink of collapse, the ability to keep animals is also on the brink.
Too many people are biting into the anti bullet of acceptance, your fate is in our hands! No its not, our fate is in our hands and that of society politics!
Too many inner society conflicts on a political nature that are nor directly serving this industry are biting into the ability only of that of preventing a keeper from joining a society and allowing their voice to be heard,
This is where some societies misunderstand.
You are there for your membership and as a society they are with you for your ability to allow them to continue in their freedom to keep.
The federation is there to support all the societies, clubs etc.
So the bulk of my post was to say this:
1] Identify what you wish to be fighting for?
2] Who you want to be seen to fighting with
3] Join a society, club etc that can do the best for _your_ hobby.
4] Demand from your society, what are you doing for my membership, and me?
5] What are we doing as a society to fight those that oppose us?
6] That to remember that you – the private keeper – you are the backbone to this industry – without you, there is no industry, there are no societies, there are no federations, there are no lobbies, and there is no belief. Remember they need you! But you do need them, catch 22.
7] Work and fight together as a unified voice, we can but win.
It highlighted what Pro keepers lobby would be doing to serve FOCAS, and also how we intended to support and fight for the keeper’s ability. 

I hope this has made the above three posts easier reading. I would still say read them properly if you haven’t done so already

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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