# Where to gain experience?



## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

I was corrected on one of my posts today and it has made me think.....

If I am to comment on someone's handling of hots then I should probably have some personal experience to base my comments on.

I am based in Kent and ( think ) I would like the opportunity to handle a venemous snake.

Preferably it would be something that if I was to get tagged would send me to bed rather than the morgue.

If anyone knows of anywhere I could do this I would be interested to know.

Any people kind enough to offer should be aware that my Mrs may possibly not be thrilled about the idea:blush:


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## osouthlondon (Feb 8, 2010)

paulds said:


> I was corrected on one of my posts today and it has made me think.....
> 
> If I am to comment on someone's handling of hots then I should probably have some personal experience to base my comments on.
> 
> ...


It's not something that you can just go and do mate. If it was I'm sure we would see a huge increase in hospital visits and deaths. Also there are other things to take into account such as the fact that any keeper of hots should and almost certainly will have public liability insurance that they most certainly do not want to claim against.

Also I should mention that even with expert supervision and advice, there is still a very good chance that you would unwillingly put yourself and the keeper at risk through inexperience.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

osouthlondon said:


> It's not something that you can just go and do mate. If it was I'm sure we would see a huge increase in hospital visits and deaths. Also there are other things to take into account such as the fact that any keeper of hots should and almost certainly will have public liability insurance that they most certainly do not want to claim against.
> 
> Also I should mention that even with expert supervision and advice, there is still a very good chance that you would unwillingly put yourself and the keeper at risk through inexperience.


 I understand this and agree totally.

I didn't mean that I wanted to turn up and handle a hot and then go, I was looking into more of a long term tutalidge:2thumb:.

I'm definitely a bit stupid but I dont think I could just walk in and grab a venemous snake without my brain giving me a bit of slap. I would need at least 10 minutes beeing shown how to do it first :lol2:


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## morallywrong (Sep 18, 2008)

paulds said:


> I understand this and agree totally.
> 
> I didn't mean that I wanted to turn up and handle a hot and then go, I was looking into more of a long term tutalidge:2thumb:.
> 
> I'm definitely a bit stupid but I dont think I could just walk in and grab a venemous snake without my brain giving me a bit of slap. I would need at least 10 minutes beeing shown how to do it first :lol2:


10 minutes??? think it might need a little longer than that! Plus, several people have asked on here before, how much experience with snakes do you have? might be wise to mention this to anyone who is considering this.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

morallywrong said:


> 10 minutes??? think it might need a little longer than that! Plus, several people have asked on here before, how much experience with snakes do you have? might be wise to mention this to anyone who is considering this.


10 minutes was a bit of a giggle. I would be looking for long term mentoring.

I've been keeping snakes for 15 years now. I'm definitely no expert but everyone has to learn somewhere. :2thumb:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

how much experience do you need is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, who knows the answer. Everyone has their own opinions on it, and what you should of done, tbh some people will never be ready.

If you have 10 years experience as a royal python keeper then you have a fair bit of experience in snakes, but is it relevant experience, not really imo.

Someone thats kept for half of that time could be ready, with the right attitude relevant experience and help. It all depends on a lot of factors.

I got started by finding someone in my local area introducing myself and speaking to them a few times on PM, then visiting them when invited, luckily they were more than happy to help me out, and I wouldnt be in the position I am today without their help.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

SiUK said:


> how much experience do you need is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, who knows the answer. Everyone has their own opinions on it, and what you should of done, tbh some people will never be ready.
> 
> If you have 10 years experience as a royal python keeper then you have a fair bit of experience in snakes, but is it relevant experience, not really imo.
> 
> ...


 A good point well made :2thumb:.

With regard to finding someone local, that was the main reason for the post.

I am not expecting anyone to let me go barging into their rep room and bothering their snakes, then dragging my lifeless body to a&e:lol2:.

I have had experience with a number of different species Boa's, kings, garters and so on. I'm not sure if that would make all that much difference as my kings and garters were bitey little sods and although I would normally try and avoid their advances sometimes I would just not bother to be on my guard and would take a knock.

What I would look to do would be to observe someone handling the snake and over time get to know that snakes limitations are and their common responses, while also observing how the handler responds to the actions of the snake.

I appologise if this comes across incoherrently I keep getting interrupted with bloody work to do!!


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

MORE CHANCE OF PLATING FOG comes to mind.:lol2:
Speaking as a Holder of a DWAL licence you wouldnt even get in my snake room, and i mean this with no offence. From what i can see you dont seem to have much experience with snakes, i may be wrong but this is my take on things.
If you are around the hobby for any length of time you will get to know lots of knowledgable reptile keepers and among them you will proberbly find one with venomous experience, once you have befriended them and expressed an interest they may invite you around and so on. This is how a lot of people get into it, i did. the person involved would need to see your reactions to handling non venomous first before they would consider you with the real deal. Remember all venomous keepers have invested a lot of time effort and money and to many it is not just a hobby as such. we have usually jumped through hoops and forked out a small fortune to just get to the inspection, thats before we have purchased a snake, and i would be very reluctant to jeperdise it in any way. We have proberbly spent many years collecting, breeding, and keeping all manor of animals and spent lots of time studying them, proberbly made a lot of mistakes along the way with the rarer and harder to keep stuff which eventually bring people to crossroads in there snake or reptile keeping habits where it starts to get very serious. Some people go down keeping a single species, or monitors then there are some that end up keeping venomous. Just because you fancy the idea does not mean you can or should or will. proberbly one of the miost knowledgable and best known keepers on this site (WILDLIFEWORRYER) does not and as far as i am aware has know does not want to go further than keeping rear fang. 
The things you need to ask yourself are.
1/ have i honestly got the knowledge and experience with a varying amount of animals?

2/ can i go to the expence of changing a room or outbuilding or even build a snake room that is safe and secure?

3/ would i be putting my family at risk?

4/ if i get bit would i have the nerve to go back in with them

5/ if i get bit i could put my family through the mill and if the worst happens what happens then could you do it to your family

6/ does your partner/family give there full unconditional backing.

if you answer no to any of the above then i would not get venomous.

Also learn to spell *VENOMOUS*


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> MORE CHANCE OF PLATING FOG comes to mind.:lol2:
> Speaking as a Holder of a DWAL licence you wouldnt even get in my snake room, and i mean this with no offence. From what i can see you dont seem to have much experience with snakes, i may be wrong but this is my take on things.
> If you are around the hobby for any length of time you will get to know lots of knowledgable reptile keepers and among them you will proberbly find one with venomous experience, once you have befriended them and expressed an interest they may invite you around and so on. This is how a lot of people get into it, i did. the person involved would need to see your reactions to handling non venomous first before they would consider you with the real deal. Remember all venomous keepers have invested a lot of time effort and money and to many it is not just a hobby as such. we have usually jumped through hoops and forked out a small fortune to just get to the inspection, thats before we have purchased a snake, and i would be very reluctant to jeperdise it in any way. We have proberbly spent many years collecting, breeding, and keeping all manor of animals and spent lots of time studying them, proberbly made a lot of mistakes along the way with the rarer and harder to keep stuff which eventually bring people to crossroads in there snake or reptile keeping habits where it starts to get very serious. Some people go down keeping a single species, or monitors then there are some that end up keeping venomous. Just because you fancy the idea does not mean you can or should or will. proberbly one of the miost knowledgable and best known keepers on this site (WILDLIFEWORRYER) does not and as far as i am aware has know does not want to go further than keeping rear fang.
> The things you need to ask yourself are.
> ...


 Firstly let me appologise for the spelling I'm at work and am getting distracted all the time.

I do not blame you for not wanting me in your rep room, you have absolutely no idea who I am and what my abilities ( or lack of them ) are.

One thing I would like to clear up is that I have no and probably never will have any intention of ever keeping a DWA species. I purely think that it would be a challenge to learn how to handle one of these.

For all I know I could take one look at a venomous snake up close and decide that it is totally not for me.

The sole purpose of this thread was to get an idea of any DWA keepers in my area with a view to opening a dialogue.

I'm sure that it is largely my fault that my intentions have been unclear and i should have probably posted this at a time when it could have my full attention.

I have only the vaguest of ideas as to the difficulty of keeping hots and can understand why you are protective about your chosen path.

Sorry for any offence caused, I'm really not a bad guy:2thumb:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

paulds said:


> A good point well made :2thumb:.
> 
> With regard to finding someone local, that was the main reason for the post.
> 
> ...


the reason we say experience with various species is they are all diferent an asian rat snake will act different to an amarican rat snake etc getting experience with many different sp and by that i mean keeping them for a length of time you will get to know the different ways that snakes in general react. watching somebody and there animals is not the way to do it in my opinion all you are doing is watching somebody else experience it


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> the reason we say experience with various species is they are all diferent an asian rat snake will act different to an amarican rat snake etc getting experience with many different sp and by that i mean keeping them for a length of time you will get to know the different ways that snakes in general react. watching somebody and there animals is not the way to do it in my opinion all you are doing is watching somebody else experience it


 Fair comment. 

This is really the kind of stuff I was looking to find out. I just go about things in a unclear way sometimes.

I have the uptmost respect for anyone capable of keeping DWA and find the whole subject facinating.

In your opinion in order to gain a good foundation for handling DWA would Rat snakes be the closest to the real thing? If so are they more like one species of venomous than another?

Do you believe there are traits that are common with snakes in general? For example would all Cobra's puff up before looking to strike?


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Dont get me wrong i didnt want to come across as having a go and i did not take offence i think its refreshing someone coming on here not bigging themselves up and saying i AM going to have venomous but what do i do, if you need to ask that question you arent ready for hots. And i was joking about letting you in my snake room.
Just for your interest there are a couple of places around the country that do venomous snake handling courses.


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## osouthlondon (Feb 8, 2010)

leecb0 said:


> MORE CHANCE OF PLATING FOG comes to mind.:lol2:
> Speaking as a Holder of a DWAL licence you wouldnt even get in my snake room, and i mean this with no offence. From what i can see you dont seem to have much experience with snakes, i may be wrong but this is my take on things.
> If you are around the hobby for any length of time you will get to know lots of knowledgable reptile keepers and among them you will proberbly find one with venomous experience, once you have befriended them and expressed an interest they may invite you around and so on. This is how a lot of people get into it, i did. the person involved would need to see your reactions to handling non venomous first before they would consider you with the real deal. Remember all venomous keepers have invested a lot of time effort and money and to many it is not just a hobby as such. we have usually jumped through hoops and forked out a small fortune to just get to the inspection, thats before we have purchased a snake, and i would be very reluctant to jeperdise it in any way. We have proberbly spent many years collecting, breeding, and keeping all manor of animals and spent lots of time studying them, proberbly made a lot of mistakes along the way with the rarer and harder to keep stuff which eventually bring people to crossroads in there snake or reptile keeping habits where it starts to get very serious. Some people go down keeping a single species, or monitors then there are some that end up keeping venomous. Just because you fancy the idea does not mean you can or should or will. proberbly one of the miost knowledgable and best known keepers on this site (WILDLIFEWORRYER) does not and as far as i am aware has know does not want to go further than keeping rear fang.
> The things you need to ask yourself are.
> ...


Was that intentional? It sounds wrong! Either way....lmfao :lol2:


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

osouthlondon said:


> Was that intentional? It sounds wrong! Either way....lmfao :lol2:


 *YARP:lol2:*


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> .
> Just for your interest there are a couple of places around the country that do venomous snake handling courses.


 That is interesting to know.

Are they ran over a period of time? ie not just an hours lecture and they leave you alone with the elapids


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

not sure but it is a handling course


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

leecb0 said:


> not sure but it is a handling course


 This is true:2thumb:


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

paulds said:


> ....If I am to comment on someone's handling of hots then I should probably have some personal experience to base my comments on….


Your respectable opinion should be based on experience or previous learning. Having an opinion is one thing but questioning a technique or an act without any accurate knowledge could be considered forward or rude.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

You could try asking a local reptile shop that stocks DWA, or if there's not one local, perhaps travelling further afield on a weekend or something like that. You're obviously not going to be handling but if you're willing to volunteer and work for free (most likely cleaning out vivs and helping food/water non DWA stuff) the staff will be able to gauge your skills/reaction times with non DWA and eventually move onto maintenance of DWA vivs and then possibly work up to further things. This is one route to gain experience, I do know 2 reptile shops in the UK (sorry, not in your area though, but it doesn't hurt to ask!) that stock DWA that will consider a mature person as a volunteer - as long as they realise they're there to work and help the shop out and learn as they go. Shops obviously have a lot of animals so can see you working with most of them before stepping up. 

I don't know many private keepers who will take people into their homes for mentoring these days without actually knowing you personally first. I think if you're willing to work for potentially one day a week for a few months proving yourself in a shop you're more likely to get hands on experience with DWA further down the line, and they get your help with the non DWA so it's more of a give and take situation.

Or if you have a small collection yourself, volunteering at any shop or rescue facility (even if they have no DWA) will give you a lot more experience, if you can say to someone "I've worked with over 100 species whilst volunteering at blah blah over the last 3 months, including handling and daily maintenance of some aggressive species such as xxxxx" then someone is much more likely to take you under their wing.


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## Snakes Incorporated (Jun 27, 2006)

I train potential snake catches by using endemic animals from the area that these people are going to be active. Understanding the general nature as a framework is good but this nature can vary due to pain, stress, heat and or temperament. 

The same species will react differently if cornered or if found snuggled up in a corner cool and sleepy. It is easier to learn from someone that has made the mistakes to point out surroundings and circumstance that impact directly on the animal. 

Here meet Ed one of my experienced instructors.


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Snakes Incorporated said:


> Your respectable opinion should be based on experience or previous learning. Having an opinion is one thing but questioning a technique or an act without any accurate knowledge could be considered forward or rude.


 Appreciated, the observation was based on the shaking hand when milking and from being fortunate enough to have observed milking on a couple of occassions, I just thought it odd.

With hindsight though I agree that I am in no position to be question anothers handling of hots when I have no experience myself.

Thank you for your feedback :2thumb:


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## paulds (Mar 17, 2009)

Athravan said:


> You could try asking a local reptile shop that stocks DWA, or if there's not one local, perhaps travelling further afield on a weekend or something like that. You're obviously not going to be handling but if you're willing to volunteer and work for free (most likely cleaning out vivs and helping food/water non DWA stuff) the staff will be able to gauge your skills/reaction times with non DWA and eventually move onto maintenance of DWA vivs and then possibly work up to further things. This is one route to gain experience, I do know 2 reptile shops in the UK (sorry, not in your area though, but it doesn't hurt to ask!) that stock DWA that will consider a mature person as a volunteer - as long as they realise they're there to work and help the shop out and learn as they go. Shops obviously have a lot of animals so can see you working with most of them before stepping up.
> 
> I don't know many private keepers who will take people into their homes for mentoring these days without actually knowing you personally first. I think if you're willing to work for potentially one day a week for a few months proving yourself in a shop you're more likely to get hands on experience with DWA further down the line, and they get your help with the non DWA so it's more of a give and take situation.
> 
> Or if you have a small collection yourself, volunteering at any shop or rescue facility (even if they have no DWA) will give you a lot more experience, if you can say to someone "I've worked with over 100 species whilst volunteering at blah blah over the last 3 months, including handling and daily maintenance of some aggressive species such as xxxxx" then someone is much more likely to take you under their wing.


 Many thanks for the above.

I would be more than happy to volunteer my time, even if it never led do dealing with DWA species. Since I can remember I haved loved to be around snakes and if I was fortunate enough to work with them as I career I would be a happy guy.

I have looked into various different home study courses with a decent herpetology grounding but haven't commited to anything yet and now I am starting to think I may be getting a bit long in the tooth.

The next best thing to me will be to expand my collection and knowledge of snakes and I see working with hots ( even if not owning them ) as an in important part of that.


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