# What type of frog/lizards can live together???



## reptileman33

Hiya Im thinking of doing a mixed frog/lizard terrarium hich will include a giant day gecko but which frogs can go with day geckos??? The reason I ask is that tree frogs cannot can they as arent they nocturnal and as the day gecko is awke during the day wouldnt the uv lights and basking light disturb the tree frogs????


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## Morgan Freeman

None. Unless you have lots of experience, which you don't.


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## BenjaminBoaz

whites and anoles worked for me when i first started. frogs more active at night and the lizards during the day. Some of the day geckos as adults were also ok with my adult whites. never had any problems in the 3ft x 2ft x 2ft viv i had them in.


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## azza23

american tree frogs and anoles, you can even chuck some rough green snakes in with them, but to be honest you need a large viv and need the same size (equivelent) animals, i wouldnt personally keep whites with anoles as big whites will eat anything, mine were like pacmans in the trees,


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## Morgan Freeman

Just chuck anything in, the worst that can happen is they'll die.


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## sambridge15

Can people not post if they are clueless! Anoles make expensive snacks for whites.... What is the obsession with mixing it's a bad idea with 0 benefits and many many risks.it should only be undertaken by those with experience in keeping all inhabitance in a very very large viv.

But hey that's just my opinion as a responsible keeper... like morg said bung in anything you want if it makes you feel Better after all it's only the animal that suffers


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## Ron Magpie

sambridge15 said:


> *Can people not post if they are clueless!* Anoles make expensive snacks for whites.... What is the obsession with mixing it's a bad idea with 0 benefits and many many risks.it should only be undertaken by those with experience in keeping all inhabitance in a very very large viv.
> 
> But hey that's just my opinion as a responsible keeper... like morg said bung in anything you want if it makes you feel Better after all it's only the animal that suffers


Sam, that's not very kind- and not helpful, either.:bash: We aren't born knowing everything.

Reptileman, you'll find that few people agree with mixing for lots of reasons; stress, possible poisoning, possible predation, not to mention the difficulty in providing the correct conditions for two or more species. It _can_ be done, but only if you know your chosen species very well, and only if you can give them a lot of room- which means a big viv. You'd be best off not trying it at the mo, as Morgan and others have said.


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## sambridge15

Ron Magpie said:


> Sam, that's not very kind- and not helpful, either.:bash: We aren't born knowing everything.
> 
> Reptileman, you'll find that few people agree with mixing for lots of reasons; stress, possible poisoning, possible predation, not to mention the difficulty in providing the correct conditions for two or more species. It _can_ be done, but only if you know your chosen species very well, and only if you can give them a lot of room- which means a big viv. You'd be best off not trying it at the mo, as Morgan and others have said.


Exactly so what I meant was if people don't have the knowledge (like the whites and anole poster) can they not post... Wasn't aimed at the op...by all means ask if you have a question, reply If you have an answer and keep quiet if you don't have either is the point I'm trying to make.

People have a bad habit of listening to the answer they want to hear, and when it's an animals life and welfare in danger it's not fair for people to make such stupid suggestions..


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## Ron Magpie

sambridge15 said:


> Exactly so what I meant was if people don't have the knowledge (like the whites and anole poster) can they not post... Wasn't aimed at the op...by all means ask if you have a question, reply If you have an answer and keep quiet if you don't have either is the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> People have a bad habit of listening to the answer they want to hear, and when it's an animals life and welfare in danger it's not fair for people to make such stupid suggestions..


My bad- I misunderstood you! :blush:


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## sambridge15

Ron Magpie said:


> My bad- I misunderstood you! :blush:


To be fair I hadn't really worded it very well :blush:


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## BenjaminBoaz

sambridge15 said:


> Can people not post if they are clueless! Anoles make expensive snacks for whites.... What is the obsession with mixing it's a bad idea with 0 benefits and many many risks.it should only be undertaken by those with experience in keeping all inhabitance in a very very large viv.
> 
> But hey that's just my opinion as a responsible keeper... like morg said bung in anything you want if it makes you feel Better after all it's only the animal that suffers


Was this for me? 
OP, pm me for sensible information on co-habbiting, comment like this I expected, looks like Sam has years of experience to call on with his four dart frogs.

I started with treefrogs some 18 years ago, for 8 years happly keeping a co-habbiting group of mixed frogs and lizards together with no harm to any animal. I don't personally think I have to list my cv of herpetology experience but it could be arranged if so required.


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## Morgan Freeman

Well if you did it, then everyone can and should.


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## sambridge15

animalstory said:


> Was this for me?
> OP, pm me for sensible information on co-habbiting, comment like this I expected, looks like Sam has years of experience to call on with his four dart frogs.
> 
> I started with treefrogs some 18 years ago, for 8 years happly keeping a co-habbiting group of mixed frogs and lizards together with no harm to any animal. I don't personally think I have to list my cv of herpetology experience but it could be arranged if so required.



Yes is was meant for you... even with all that experience you recommend a species that has clearly got an issue with. preditation to a total beginner without so much as mentioning the problems....as for experience.i wasn't aware time/quantity was a factor.think I'd much rather have some simple common sense that mixing preditor and prey in a few square ft is a very very bad idea even when practised by an expert

Albiet not as bad of an Idea as recommending this to a beginner.

Also I have 7 darts:whistling2p I'd much more recommend a conversation with spikbrit if you are really adamant about mixing...


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## Spikebrit

animalstory said:


> Was this for me?
> OP, pm me for sensible information on co-habbiting, comment like this I expected, looks like Sam has years of experience to call on with his four dart frogs.
> 
> I started with treefrogs some 18 years ago, for 8 years happly keeping a co-habbiting group of mixed frogs and lizards together with no harm to any animal. I don't personally think I have to list my cv of herpetology experience but it could be arranged if so required.



I have kept for many years and still keep various cohabiting groups. Im probably one of the few pro mixers here. 

However i would agree with sam. The mix of a whites tree frog with an anoles is and awful mix. Very quickly an adults whites will eat a anole or day gecko with very little issue. There are hundreds of videos of this on youtube and other places. They are not reps that can work. One of the first questions you ask yourself when thinking about cohabitation is 'is one animals prey to the other, if the answer is yes then they do not mix'

I have succesfully kept and have done for many years anoles with USA tree frogs along with other things and pending a large habitat, knowledge of behaviors of all animals (so that stress behaviors can be identified) and the creation of various neich habitats it works really well. Mines are in and 80cm cube that is heavly planted and all breed on a regular basis.

*Mixing should never be done as a cheap option, a methods of saving space, or just to keep more animals. As it doesn't work in 95% of cases, stress levels are to high and animals die young, they get eaten etc etc. I would say don't cohabit unless you have kept each species separately for a decent period of time, can identify stress behaviors, have a very large viv with lots of different niche's and room to separate if it doesn't work. *

jay


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## sambridge15

Think spikbrit hit the nail on the head with the bold text.:2thumb: I have no objection to experts mixing. I used to be 100% against but people like Spikebrit have persuaded me otherwise. What I'm against is it being practised by those who are not capable as it's the animals that suffer.that is why I'm so annoyed when people post on forums like this without explaining the problems.


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## BenjaminBoaz

Typical.


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## fardilis

reptileman33 said:


> Hiya Im thinking of doing a mixed frog/lizard terrarium hich will include a giant day gecko but which frogs can go with day geckos??? The reason I ask is that tree frogs cannot can they as arent they nocturnal and as the day gecko is awke during the day wouldnt the uv lights and basking light disturb the tree frogs????


hiya
i wouldent mix them evan tho alot of ppl keep mixed species tanks and the 'get along'.

if you want it to still look natural then u can buy a thin divider and put it in the middle


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## Morgan Freeman

animalstory said:


> Typical.


What, someone disagreeing with you?


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## Wolfenrook

Animalstory, I think the point people are trying to make here is that you are mistaking luck for judgement. Basically you were lucky that you never had problems with your White's and Anoles, it had little to do with it been a wise decision to do it.

It pains me to say this, but for once I am in complete agreement with Jay. Just because it worked for you Animalstory does NOT mean it will work every single time.

I have a saying for when folks post asking about mixing. It's a very simple one. If you need to ask, then you shouldn't do it.

You don't have to agree with us Animalstory, you don't have to like what we say, but you DO have to accept that we are as much entitled to state our opinions as you are.

I am NOT anti mixing, contrary to many dart keepers. I AM anti newbie random mixing. I get annoyed with the folks who are anti for the sake of been anti, and don't even understand why they are anti. But there are plenty of posts here saying WHY mixing is a bad idea when just starting out. But at least the antis are antis because they are more concerned about their animals than they are about having what THEY want, putting their animals first, which is how it should be.

You've been doing it for 8 years? Then I would say for the last 8 years you have been doing something you shouldn't have done. All it proves is that you have been VERY lucky, in the face of all of the evidence that would support that mixing White's and anoles is a bad idea. I frankly don't give a hoot how much experience you have, when most of that experience would seem to be of doing things very badly indeed. UNLESS you happened to be doing it in a truly massive viv, zoo style. Forget predation, the accidental lunges the frogs would regularly make at an anole would be enough to stress the anole big time. Heck I saw one of my White's lunge at a springtail the other day, and saw them in the past lunge at each other, despite been the exact same size.... I could keep you in a cage with a tiger for 8 years, you might survive it, but I doubt it would be very pleasant. As to the "no harm to any animal", how would you know? Are you a vet? Have you had the animals examined by a vet?

That's me exiting this thread now, to the OP good luck, and please do heed the cautions been given here. They will save you money and heart ache.

Out of here.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook

Morgan Freeman said:


> What, someone disagreeing with you?


I wasn't going to say more, then I read this. :lol2:

Hammer meet nail's head. :lol2:

I really am out of this thread now. lol

Ade


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## BenjaminBoaz

I got the message the first time without the third lecture, but many thanks for the addition. Anyone else like to repeat whats been said, feel free to continue. 
Times have changes a lot over the years and mixed species is more now seen as a non starter. This wasn't always the case. The enclosure I had made was a glass viv 3 ft high 2 ft x 2ft. It housed 3 adult whites, 2 US green tree frogs, one European green treefrog, a pair of anoles and a pair of gold dust day geckos. This was back in the early 90s. It was one of my first enclosures and as said had no problem with any of them trying to eat each other. Maybe I kept them well fed so they never felt the need to attack each other. Of course there are rules to co-habitation. 
Personally now like to keep species separately, but I wouldn't rule out a mixed viv if done correctly.


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## sambridge15

animalstory said:


> I got the message the first time without the third lecture, but many thanks for the addition. Anyone else like to repeat whats been said, feel free to continue.
> Times have changes a lot over the years and mixed species is more now seen as a non starter. This wasn't always the case. The enclosure I had made was a glass viv 3 ft high 2 ft x 2ft. It housed 3 adult whites, 2 US green tree frogs, one European green treefrog, a pair of anoles and a pair of gold dust day geckos. This was back in the early 90s. It was one of my first enclosures and as said had no problem with any of them trying to eat each other. Maybe I kept them well fed so they never felt the need to attack each other. Of course there are rules to co-habitation.
> Personally now like to keep species separately, but I wouldn't rule out a mixed viv if done correctly.


the "lecture" isnt aimed at you, its aimed at the OP who is looking for the advice we are giving, not to mention many more people that might google across this forum page in the future... least this way the point is strongly put across that mixing is a practise that should be saved for the experts.If that stops even one person from mixing an anole with whites or any other bad mix its a huge bonus


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## Spikebrit

Wolfenrook said:


> Animalstory, I think the point people are trying to make here is that you are mistaking luck for judgement. Basically you were lucky that you never had problems with your White's and Anoles, it had little to do with it been a wise decision to do it.
> 
> *It pains me to say this, but for once I am in complete agreement with Jay.* Just because it worked for you Animalstory does NOT mean it will work every single time.
> 
> I have a saying for when folks post asking about mixing. It's a very simple one. If you need to ask, then you shouldn't do it.
> 
> You don't have to agree with us Animalstory, you don't have to like what we say, but you DO have to accept that we are as much entitled to state our opinions as you are.
> 
> I am NOT anti mixing, contrary to many dart keepers. I AM anti newbie random mixing. I get annoyed with the folks who are anti for the sake of been anti, and don't even understand why they are anti. But there are plenty of posts here saying WHY mixing is a bad idea when just starting out. But at least the antis are antis because they are more concerned about their animals than they are about having what THEY want, putting their animals first, which is how it should be.
> 
> You've been doing it for 8 years? Then I would say for the last 8 years you have been doing something you shouldn't have done. All it proves is that you have been VERY lucky, in the face of all of the evidence that would support that mixing White's and anoles is a bad idea. I frankly don't give a hoot how much experience you have, when most of that experience would seem to be of doing things very badly indeed. UNLESS you happened to be doing it in a truly massive viv, zoo style. Forget predation, the accidental lunges the frogs would regularly make at an anole would be enough to stress the anole big time. Heck I saw one of my White's lunge at a springtail the other day, and saw them in the past lunge at each other, despite been the exact same size.... I could keep you in a cage with a tiger for 8 years, you might survive it, but I doubt it would be very pleasant. As to the "no harm to any animal", how would you know? Are you a vet? Have you had the animals examined by a vet?
> 
> That's me exiting this thread now, to the OP good luck, and please do heed the cautions been given here. They will save you money and heart ache.
> 
> Out of here.
> 
> Ade


OMG print screen print screen. This has to be the first time we have ever agreed on anything lol. 

Jay


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## BenjaminBoaz

I think a lot of what you have witten was well over the top to be truthful. I don't agree with half of what you have said especial the bit about the vet. Does the vet talk frog or something?how many vets have kept half the species they treat? Not many. I use to sit for hours and watch them they were in my bedroom all through my college and uni years. The enclosures were well planted and they got along fine. Maybe I was lucky maybe I wasn't but I did keep them together and witnessed no physical harm. You say you don't have to agree with me and are free to stat your opinions, well that works both ways doesn't it. The way your talking we should all be keeping single animals per viv, animals can get stressed with each other regardless of the species whislt other get along fine with the same or different ones. Just because I didn't write the ins and outs of co keeping in my post doesn't mean I wasn't preparied to answer and explain questions the OP had which I was doing through pm. The whole process has to be though through and many questions asked and answered. depending on what was being planned I might also have sujested keeping only one species. There has been many experiences of people keeping frogs and lizards together. I also think you are rude saying I didn't put my animals first or have any care for them. I spent hours and hours in front of my frog tanks when I use to keep them.one he'll of a lot more than what most keeper do. If I had at any time witnessed any fights, harm etc they would have been separated. If I lost one then I sadly would have learnt natures way and again separated them, but i didn't need to. Maybe bad experiences come down to others not feeding enough or house wrong sized animals together? I notice you didn't say I couldnt keep the daygeckos with them? Did you forget they were in there? Want to spout off about that or fuss that I shouldn't have had green treefrogs in there either in case they were eaten. How come you say a zoo can try and others can't? What gives one person the right and not another? There are people that have had good experiences and other that have had bad experiances. If you had said you disagree then fine but no it's typical RFUK style shoot someone down and put them in there place.


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## sambridge15

animalstory said:


> I think a lot of what you have witten was well over the top to be truthful. I don't agree with half of what you have said especial the bit about the vet. Does the vet talk frog or something?how many vets have kept half the species they treat? Not many. I use to sit for hours and watch them they were in my bedroom all through my college and uni years. The enclosures were well planted and they got along fine. Maybe I was lucky maybe I wasn't but I did keep them together and *witnessed no physical harm*. You say you don't have to agree with me and are free to stat your opinions, well that works both ways doesn't it. The way your talking we should all be keeping single animals per viv, animals can get stressed with each other regardless of the species whislt other get along fine with the same or different ones. Just because I didn't write the ins and outs of co keeping in my post doesn't mean I wasn't preparied to answer and explain questions the OP had which I was doing through pm. *The whole process has to be though through and many questions asked and answered. depending on what was being planned* I might also have sujested keeping only one species. There has been many experiences of people keeping frogs and lizards together. I also think you are rude saying I didn't put my animals first or have any care for them. I spent hours and hours in front of my frog tanks when I use to keep them.one he'll of a lot more than what most keeper do. If I had at any time witnessed any fights, harm etc they would have been separated.* If I lost one then I sadly would have learnt natures way and again separated them*, but i didn't need to. Maybe bad experiences come down to others not feeding enough or house wrong sized animals together? I notice you didn't say I couldnt keep the daygeckos with them? Did you forget they were in there? Want to spout off about that or fuss that I shouldn't have had green treefrogs in there either in case they were eaten. How come you say a zoo can try and others can't? What gives one person the right and not another? There are people that have had good experiences and other that have had bad experiances. If you had said you disagree then fine but no it's typical RFUK style shoot someone down and put them in there place.



your post sums up exactly what we are saying is wrong.... 1 fight, 1 serious injury, 1 death,that is all it takes for an animal to die for no reason other than its owners desire to attempt to mix! but oh well you learnt a lesson so who cares something unnecessarily suffered and died.If this is your attitude then how can you say you cared about what you were keeping as There is rarely chance to correct a mistake in these kinds of situations .There is also no end to the possibility.for example you could keep an anole and a white for an hour successfully before the anole becomes lunch or a year or 8 years...also just because you couldn't see any physical distress doesn't mean the animals were healthy or stress free.did you ever keep them all seperatly to tell a healthy animal from a sick animal?

also something that really bugs me .you say a ton of thought and process went into your viv, and yet the first thing you suggest is whites and anoles.....I dont even keep whites!i have no idea about there care and yet im well aware of there veracious appetites to understand this wouldn't work(even with my far inferiror experience in keeping:whistling2 and without having done any research... how much research could you have possibly put in?in fact none of those species mentioned seem particularly compatible...what research and thought did you do to decide upon these species? just doesnt match your rigerous questions and research that you mention above.

as for the shoot down again (animals life>petty argument) we are not directing these posts to you we are trying to help the op understand the issues with mixing and perhaps stop a problem before it occurs


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## BenjaminBoaz

Sam I didn't have any losses so I didn't learn the hard way. 
Back in the 90s mixed tanks were more common and the whole world of herp keeping was different. The two whites I have here now live on there own but they are not voracious like you make out at all. 
If you were so concerned about animals mental health why dont you campaign about shops and breeders keeping baby chameleons or bearded dragons together when young? They stress each other out. BDs will harm each other, some will dominate and bully younger ones to the point of ones becomming weaker and even dying, Toes nibbled tails nipped yet sill breeders raise them in groups. Some even sell them knowing they are going to be kept together yet mention nothing about dominance. I'm not even talking overcrowding as it can happen in small groups. Chameleons should be raised individually to reduce stress yet it doesn't happen and people say they are ok together till. Only recently some one on here was raing a grop of babies together and been told they were ok yet two had become week and died. Stress of siblings. He shold have been raising them singly.


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## sambridge15

animalstory said:


> Sam I didn't have any losses so I didn't learn the hard way.
> Back in the 90s mixed tanks were more common and the whole world of herp keeping was different. The two whites I have here now live on there own but they are not voracious like you make out at all.
> If you were so concerned about animals mental health why dont you campaign about shops and breeders keeping baby chameleons or bearded dragons together when young? They stress each other out. BDs will harm each other, some will dominate and bully younger ones to the point of ones becomming weaker and even dying, Toes nibbled tails nipped yet sill breeders raise them in groups. Some even sell them knowing they are going to be kept together yet mention nothing about dominance. I'm not even talking overcrowding as it can happen in small groups. Chameleons should be raised individually to reduce stress yet it doesn't happen and people say they are ok together till. Only recently some one on here was raing a grop of babies together and been told they were ok yet two had become week and died. Stress of siblings. He shold have been raising them singly.


because I keep amphibians.... im posting on the amphibian section. I have little to no experience with lizards(used to keep crested geckos and anoles) and so I wouldn't comment on the matter of shops conduct in keeping lizards.also how is any of that relevant?

this thread is about mixed tanks not communal raising.... 

the point still remains "I didn't have any losses so I didn't learn the hard way." but the fact of the matter was that the chances were incredibly high for something to go wrong(just check youtube), your mix was incredibly poorly thought out and you then proceeded to encourage somebody else(a begginer) to follow.This is the exact behaviour every 1 except yourself is trying to prevent. the "chuck it in and hope for the best logic" not the sort of husbandry advice id expect from somebody of such unparalleled experience 

also what does the fact it was in the 90s have to do with anything? so herp keeping changed in the past 20 years. people have become more experienced and learnt the drawbacks of mixed vivaria.yet you still recommended the mix anyway....


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## BenjaminBoaz

I DONT have any mixed tanks. I have in the distant past and it worked well. The whites werent big enough to eat the pair of adult anoles. Your views have been well noted. As said you make no reference to the geckos or other frogs. Do whites have something against anoles in general as if they were to attack the them surly they would have tried it with the other frogs and lizards- again they didn't. Maybe I feed them correctly and people who have had bad experiences didn't? I couldn't say.
So same species is fine but mixed isn't even when people know younger and smaller ones get harmed. You don't feel you can comment on lizard as you know little about them. You havet kept whites either and you have a lot to say.


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