# _simon_'s indoor tropical pond thread



## _simon_

To save dotting posts about all over the place I'll keep everything here. I've decided to go ahead with the indoor tropical pond. I'll be using a Laguna 1300 koi holding tank. 6' x 4' x 2' that's around about 345 US gallons. This is a free standing tank and will be going into our lounge.

I'll be running my current FX5 along side a pond filter kit for a few months to cycle it. Most likely a Hozelock Aquaforce 4000 solids pump and a Hozelock Bioforce 5500 pressurized filter.

The top will be covered by a pond net to prevent them escaping. Depending how the humidity goes this may be replaced with an acrylic panelled top.

Water needs to be 26/27C, I've got a couple of Fluval E's that can go in and will have to play it by eye to see if they can do the job. I know there are 1KW heaters on the market and this may be an option but I'm always concious that heaters can fail and when they do they tend to fail in the on position so perhaps a number of lower wattage ones may be a safer bet. I also intend insulating the outside but not sure just yet what I will be using. I've watched the temp in the lounge these past few warm days and it's been hitting 24C so during the summer months the heaters won't need to do much work but come winter I may find I need to add more.

Not yet sure on whether I will light from above or under water. I will probably add some large air stones but not sure on pump power yet. Some advice on that would be welcome. I've had crap experiences with membrane pumps in the past so would be interested in hearing feedback on decent ones or piston driven ones.

I'll be moving my current fish from their 120 gal tank. (Tiger Oscar, 4 Silver Dollars, 1 Ornatipinnis Polypterus, 1 Senegalus Polypterus and 2 Delhezi Polypterus) and adding to them. I thinking more dollars, some tinfoil barbs and an Arowana. I would also love to add an Endlicheri Polpyterus. 

I'll add a very thin layer of sand to the bottom to help reflect light and make the fish easier to see. I've got various large rocks I can add in and will add some tall artificial plants. I have a few pieces of wood already but will add more.

So far all I've done is order the net but I'll count my pennies up next week and see about ordering the holding tank. Once the fish are transferred I can sell on their current tank which will recoup a good deal of the cost and a few months down the line the FX5 will also be sold.

I should say that I do already have one of these holding tanks in our lounge which is unheated and filtered with the above mentioned hozelock kit, it houses my turtles. I also already have a pond vac.


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## spinnin_tom

wow.. i envy you.
mum won't let me get a pond indoors.. yet 
how much is the whole 'project' costing you?


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## bothrops

Pics of the turtle set up?

Can't wait for pics of the new set-up.


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## _simon_

spinnin_tom said:


> wow.. i envy you.
> mum won't let me get a pond indoors.. yet
> how much is the whole 'project' costing you?



My other half was against the idea to begin with but she came around to it  Holding tank is about £150, filter kit is about £140. Insulation could be anywhere between £10-£20. Not sure how I will hide the insulation yet so that's an unknown cost. netting was just under a tenner on ebay with delivery. Air pump cost is another unknown and I may need to buy more heaters.

But as I mentioned I will recoup some of the cost when i sell the tank and filter.


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## _simon_

bothrops said:


> Pics of the turtle set up?
> 
> Can't wait for pics of the new set-up.


I've not boxed it in with anything but it's on my todo list.


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## spinnin_tom

when you think about it..
for a much larger space for the fish (the koi vat) it is actually far cheaper than an aquarium setup, of a far smaller size.. surprising isn't it. i'll be looking into this, in the future.. when i have a house on my own.
i'd love to give my (edit BLACK GHOST) knifefish a pond instead of 200 litres


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## _simon_

spinnin_tom said:


> when you think about it..
> for a much larger space for the fish (the koi vat) it is actually far cheaper than an aquarium setup, of a far smaller size.. surprising isn't it. i'll be looking into this, in the future.. when i have a house on my own.
> i'd love to give my (edit BLACK GHOST) knifefish a pond instead of 200 litres


Absolutely, I probably wouldn't have considered it had it not been suggested for turtles first and seeing for myself how well it works for them. I was looking at £245 odd for a 6x2x2 glass tank. Main disadvantage with a "pond" is you're not viewing the fish from the side but I can live with that.


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## spinnin_tom

i don't know.. makes it seem more realistic 
have you been to the london aquarium? they have a thames biotope, from the floor to about 3 foot up, you look down at it.
have you thought of cutting viewing panels? is it possible?


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## _simon_

Never been there, no. The problem I can see with cutting into it and adding windows is that over time it will bow out to some degree and I'm not sure how the windows would cope with that. I have in the past seen koi tanks with windows in the side but I believe they were american and I can't find any over here.


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## Eroom

Its a shame they dont make a see through version.


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## spinnin_tom

Eroom said:


> Its a shame they dont make a see through version.


that's just called an aquarium 
naah but it would be a good idea


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## Eroom

spinnin_tom said:


> that's just called an aquarium
> naah but it would be a good idea


Well let me rephrase that......A cheap see through plastic version:Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na::Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## _simon_

I've had some good timed fortune. It was my birthday yesterday and having counted up my birthday money from generous relatives it seems I have enough for the pond and the filter kit. So this upgrade will be cheaper for me than I thought!


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## Morgan Freeman

Awesome. Look forward to seeing this.

You think you have enough space for the extra additions?


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## _simon_

For the arowana, dollars and the endlicheri I reckon so. Thinking about it the tinfoils may be too large? It would be nice to have some large shoaling fish bigger than the dollars. Lemon barbs are supposed to grow to around 10" in aquariums so they might be an option. Obviously I don't want to over crowd it though so the arowana will probably be the first new addition and then I'll go from there.


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## Morgan Freeman

Yeah that sounds good.

I'd love to do this, great way to own some larger fish.


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## _simon_

Bought a few bits today.

As the current tank is partly in the space where the pond will go I'll need to put the fish in something during the change over.

So...










and I also got the filter kit, hoses and clips.










Unfortunately prices have gone up and it was more expensive than the last one I bought. 

Due to other money commitments it looks like ordering of the holding tank will have to be next week now.


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## Moogloo

Got to wonder what could be achieved if 5 sheets of perspex were bought, sealed into an open cube and walled up with bricks or breezeblocks externally with windows left in it. Could always box in bricks too.

I can imagine it in my head.... and can use bricks/blocks to leave a cuboard at the end of the pond to put the filter in so it will be boxed in.

Wonder how much sheets of perspex cost and how easy they would be to seal together?!

**sits plotting**


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## _simon_

Well I had this quote for one sheet:

6mm Clear Perspex
1700 x 1180 £101.56


Delivery £20.00

That's about 5.5' x just shy of 4'

I'm sure it would work given enough thought.


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## abadi

This is brill, glad you have started on your pond, gonna be a fab thread :2thumb:

the '3 ring pool' what for? great filter you have chosen, Hozelock :no1:
lemon fin barbs would be great in there.


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## _simon_

abadi said:


> This is brill, glad you have started on your pond, gonna be a fab thread :2thumb:
> 
> the '3 ring pool' what for? great filter you have chosen, Hozelock :no1:


The ring pool is to put the fish in between moving them from the tank to the pond as I need to get the tank out of the house to make space for the pond and then fill it, get the filters set up etc. So they'll go into that ring pool whilst I'm doing that.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> The ring pool is to put the fish in between moving them from the tank to the pond as I need to get the tank out of the house to make space for the pond and then fill it, get the filters set up etc. So they'll go into that ring pool whilst I'm doing that.


Oh i see, the pond would look great with the tiger os and the silver dollers, can't wait for the finishing result : victory:


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## caribe

Is it Osteoglossum bicirrhosum or Scleropages jardini as the silvers get bigger and you may have issues IMO.

Jardini tend to be more aggressive though. Tried keeping one with a very angry Texas and the texas had the s*** kicked out of it.


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## _simon_

I was thinking of Osteoglossum bicirrhosum but I best seek advice then! Just posted on arofanatics.


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## _simon_

Well no replies yet on the arow forum but I've been looking through their pictures and there's a number of tanks with arows and dollars in.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> Well no replies yet on the arow forum but I've been looking through their pictures and there's a number of tanks with arows and dollars in.


You can put an arow with dollars ONLY if the tank is really big, perhaps no less than 250 US gallons, and the dollars shouldn't be small enough to be eaten, really it's at your own risk : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman

What aro forum? The one I was looking through all the tanks looked ready to burst with fish.

Edit: Oops, yeah that's the one.


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## abadi

also, dollars are kinda flat, i don't think an arow can swallow them really, but still depending on size.


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## _simon_

My Dollars are fully grown hand sized ones and the pond is 350 gallons.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> My Dollars are fully grown hand sized ones and the pond is 350 gallons.


I'm still concerned about them being together, just needs an eye open.

How big is your arowana? i think as long as it is fed properly it should leave the dollars alone, anyways dollars are stunning fish and can not get eaten due to their flatty bodies : victory:

and 350 gallons is great.


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## _simon_

I haven't got an arowana yet but I would like one.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> I haven't got an arowana yet but I would like one.


I'm guessing it would be fine if you interduce the arowana into the dollars in the pond, aren't you gonna keep the tiger oscar with them? just curious :notworthy:.


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## _simon_

My intention is to keep all of my existing fish, so yes the Oscar would also go in.


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## _simon_

Not much feedback on the arofanatics forum but what it comes down to is the individual arowana which is like any other fish really. 

The net arrived today, won't bother with a photo. It's a strong purpose made black pond net.

Should be able to order the pond later this week for delivery next week.


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## emmz29

_simon_ said:


> I've not boxed it in with anything but it's on my todo list.
> 
> image


they sell this holden tank at my local retailer paddock farm darlington at £150 i thought this would need some support as it buckles out a little or is that just me, i would love the same set up as that for some rays nice work:flrt:


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## _simon_

It's designed to be free standing so support shouldn't be needed.


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## emmz29

_simon_ said:


> It's designed to be free standing so support shouldn't be needed.


 now seing this done i am itchen to go i have a 6x10 brick shed completely empty :whistling2:


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## _simon_

It's also the perfect size for fitting through doorways so you can have a couple in the house too


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## emmz29

_simon_ said:


> It's also the perfect size for fitting through doorways so you can have a couple in the house too


 u have me started now simon just being lokin on price of filter from paddock farm £199 will be great for laguna 1300litre pond, have a look Filter Kits > Oase > OBS14000S - Oase BioSmart 14000 Set + Free Oase Swimskim 25


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## _simon_

Note that is gravity fed so you need the filter sitting above the tank. Don't know if you saw from my previous post but what I have for my turtles is the Hozelock Aquaforce 4000 solids pump with a Hozelock Bioforce 5500 pressurised filter. I've just bought the same kit for the fish. It's rated for ponds up to 5500 litres and also carries their eco clear guarantee for clear water. Last time I paid about £145 but this time it was £159.95


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## emmz29

_simon_ said:


> Note that is gravity fed so you need the filter sitting above the tank. Don't know if you saw from my previous post but what I have for my turtles is the Hozelock Aquaforce 4000 solids pump with a Hozelock Bioforce 5500 pressurised filter. I've just bought the same kit for the fish. It's rated for ponds up to 5500 litres and also carries their eco clear guarantee for clear water. Last time I paid £145 but this time it was £159.95


 they also do a laguna pressurised filter kit i have my eye on but seing yours has made me want to go out and buy now :mf_dribble:


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## _simon_

I wish I could too. I can't order the second holding tank until Saturday then I need it delivered as it obviously won't fit in the car aaaand THEN I need help shifting the tank out of the way to make space for it. But hopefully by mid next week I'll have my tropical "pond" set up. Might not be finished but the fish will be in!


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## _simon_

Need some thoughts on insulation.

It'll be sat on laminate and the floor obviously isn't insulated very well as it's always cold so I want to put some kind of insulation between the floor and bottom of the holding tank.

What do you reckon to the aluminium reflective foil that you put behind radiators to reflect the heat back? Can't really use anything like polystyrene or the foil coated bubblewrap as I think the weight of the water would crush it beyond usefulness.


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## emmz29

_simon_ said:


> Need some thoughts on insulation.
> 
> It'll be sat on laminate and the floor obviously isn't insulated very well as it's always cold so I want to put some kind of insulation between the floor and bottom of the holding tank.
> 
> What do you reckon to the aluminium reflective foil that you put behind radiators to reflect the heat back? Can't really use anything like polystyrene or the foil coated bubblewrap as I think the weight of the water would crush it beyond usefulness.


 erm tricky 1 that is simon?


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## _simon_

lol thanks for the help emmz 

I've gone for the aluminium reflective foil and the holding tank has been ordered, delivery monday. 

I've re-jigged the room so I don't have to wait for the tank to be gone before setting the "pond" up. Instead I can leave the fish where they are, set the pond up and then net them straight across.


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> lol thanks for the help emmz
> 
> I've gone for the aluminium reflective foil and the holding tank has been ordered, delivery monday.
> 
> I've re-jigged the room so I don't have to wait for the tank to be gone before setting the "pond" up. Instead I can leave the fish where they are, set the pond up and then net them straight across.



are you going to be putting the original tank water in the pond to get the cycle going and give it a bit of a head start?
i've done that with all of mine, it works well 
dirties up the filter  if you know what i mean lol


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## _simon_

There's so little useful bacteria in water that it's not really worth doing. I'm going to run the FX5 along side the hozelock kit for a while as the FX5 has been running on that tank for years.


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> There's so little useful bacteria in water that it's not really worth doing. I'm going to run the FX5 along side the hozelock kit for a while as the FX5 has been running on that tank for years.


ah right.. that'll be far better then.
you are sooooo going to enjoy this pond when you get it up and running. it's gonna look great with all the fish, from the top. it's a different take on tropical fish keeping


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## _simon_

Been thinking about the jumping fish issue. I've decided that to begin with I'll just use the net over the top and depending on humidity I'll either swap the net for a perspex and wood top or if humidity is ok I'm going to raise the sides about 2' possibly with some fancy trellis with the net attached to the inside of it so there will be nothing obstructing the view from the top that way.

Eventually I want to clad the whole thing in wood so wooden trellis shouldn't look out of place if that's the route I end up going.


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> Been thinking about the jumping fish issue. I've decided that to begin with I'll just use the net over the top and depending on humidity I'll either swap the net for a perspex and wood top or if humidity is ok I'm going to raise the sides about 2' possibly with some fancy trellis with the net attached to the inside of it so there will be nothing obstructing the view from the top that way.
> 
> Eventually I want to clad the whole thing in wood so wooden trellis shouldn't look out of place if that's the route I end up going.


are you using just regular ol' pond net?
do you think that they defo will jump though?


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## _simon_

It's proper heavy duty double stitched pond netting, anti heron stuff so very strong. No doubt about the jumping, my Polypterus's have escaped the water a few times and even my Oscar managed it once. Scared me *bleep* the banging it made trapped in the hood on top of the splash tray!


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> It's proper heavy duty double stitched pond netting, anti heron stuff so very strong. No doubt about the jumping, my Polypterus's have escaped the water a few times and even my Oscar managed it once. Scared me *bleep* the banging it made trapped in the hood on top of the splash tray!


oh yeah.. i forgot you have the polys.
any chance they get.. 
that anti heron stuff is craziy strong


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## _simon_

Sloooooooooooooooooooowly filling ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> Sloooooooooooooooooooowly filling ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz
> 
> image


 
Looking great so far.


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## Eroom

Oh go on then....I'll give you a fiver for your old tank.


Looking good so far. How about putting a perspex wall round it so you can higher the net and you'll be able to see the fish jumping:mf_dribble:


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## _simon_

Thought about perspex but it's working out pretty pricey. I'll measure up and get an exact quote, might be worth doing.

Just getting it up to temperature now. The special 2 pronged clips for the filter hoses were useless, after struggling for an hour to stop the joints leaking I gave up and went to wickes for some normal hose clips. Seconds to fit and no leak.


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## Eroom

You could always make a fine netting fence.


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## 200sex

carnt wait for this to be running going to be amazing good work chap


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## _simon_

Transferred the fish. Got a bit wet but the room got wetter lol

Good job I've got a net over the top, my ornatipinnis polypterus is testing its boundaries and has made numerous escape attempts already!

Just emptying the old tank now as my brother is coming over tomorrow morning to help move it outside.


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## _simon_

That's me done for the night. It's a bit heath robinson with make shift weights to keep the net down and the splash tray from the tank across a vulnerable bit but it'll do the job for a few days until I can decide how best to secure this net or whether to have high sides and get it looking semi decent. 

Probably sort some lighting out at the weekend and some plants.


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## caribe

Post some pics when you get a chance. Just to see it from the side etc as been interested in seeing if this would be good for my set up.

Thanks


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## _simon_

ok bear in mind it's not finished. The FX5 is just there to cycle the other filter and the netting arrangement is temporary and I haven't got any lighting for it yet so it's pretty dark!


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## _simon_

There were no escapees thrashing around on the floor this morning which is good but my 2x Fluval E300's aren't up to the job. They're struggling to maintain 26C so I'll order 2x 500w titanium heaters. Works out cheaper than a single 1kw heater and that one is glass which I'm not comfortable with. Could get the 500w's from hong kong for the price of one 500w in the UK but that's up to a 2 week wait.


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## abadi

Doesn't look so big in the pics but i bet it's huge.


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## _simon_

Sprinkled a little sand so it's not so dark at the bottom and using a low powered desk light for a bit of light for now.


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## caribe

I really like it matey.

How are the lights foing to be mounted?

I like the idea I really do.

Only thinig that I think will be an issue is getting rubbish off the ground as its not tall enough for a gravity syphon to work unless it was powered.

Could just remove the outlet pipe from the FX and then run straight to waste.

Let me know the total costs of the build (pm me if you like)

Thanks


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## _simon_

caribe said:


> I really like it matey.
> 
> You going to use a white substrate or something to brighten it up at the bottom.
> How are the lights foing to be mounted?
> 
> I like the idea I really do.
> 
> Only thinig that I think will be an issue is getting rubbish off the ground as its not tall enough for a gravity syphon to work unless it was powered.
> 
> Could just remove the outlet pipe from the FX and then run straight to waste.
> 
> Let me know the total costs of the build (pm me if you like)
> 
> Thanks


You missed the last pic where i sprinkled play sand on the bottom. 

Light wise I'm going for a floor lamp that points downwards. I've seen one in B&Q that will take a 100w bulb which should be plenty. If it's not I can always buy another.

I use a simple pond vac on my turtle pond. One of those that you attach the hose pipe to and it creates suction and sends the waste into a bag which works well so I'll use that with the fish as well.

Costs to date:

Holding tank: £149.95 + £6.00 delivery (local garden centre)
Filter kit: £159.95
Hoses and clips: £7.90
Net: £8.98

Total so far: £332.78

This will be offset when I sell my existing tank and then again at a later date when the FX5 goes. But this has all coincided with my birthday and I got over £200 from relatives which I've put towards it.


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## hippyhaplos

Looking really good... See you never went for koi then?:Na_Na_Na_Na:

quick thought, with Perspex, it'll catch the humidity meaning you won't get to see in that well.


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## caribe

I did indeed miss the Pic.

I like it alot.

Just gonna have a word with the Mrs as this will be better for my Dovii.

Can fool her and say its like those fish pedicures and just dip your feet in :devil:

Thanks mate looks really good


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## caribe

hippyhaplos said:


> Looking really good... See you never went for koi then?:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> quick thought, with Perspex, it'll catch the humidity meaning you won't get to see in that well.


Could drill it though to let it out.

Did you use anything to brace the sides of the VAT at all? Thats my only worry for it. Needs to go in our living room as well which is not ideal. Could put some perspex on it and use it like a coffee table ;-)


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## _simon_

Not bothered with any bracing. It's meant to be free standing so shouldn't need any. My turtles are in another one the same also in the lounge. had that up and running for about 5 months now and aside from the initial bowing it's perfectly fine.

Have to say, the more I look at it the more I could imagine a couple of rays in there!


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## caribe

Has the place you bought the VAT from got a website as I cant find stuff like this apart from units you need to dig in the ground.

Thanks matey.


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## _simon_

hippyhaplos said:


> Looking really good... See you never went for koi then?:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> quick thought, with Perspex, it'll catch the humidity meaning you won't get to see in that well.


Going to see how I go with the humidity as to whether I need to cover the whole thing or not. I'm hoping not though!

Still partial to a bit of koi  but none at this time. Maybe in the future!


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## hippyhaplos

But if the perspex is there to prevent humidity escaping, then drilling it would defeat the purpose?:$

it's amazing how strong they are... I've got a vat for my turts, and it only bows slightly.


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## _simon_

caribe said:


> Has the place you bought the VAT from got a website as I cant find stuff like this apart from units you need to dig in the ground.
> 
> Thanks matey.


It's my local garden centre. Hollybush Garden Centre and Aquaria- Staffordshire

Think they only do local delivery though.

google has brought this place up: Pre Formed Ponds > Laguna > LR13L - Laguna Rectangular 1300L Pond Tub


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## caribe

hippyhaplos said:


> But if the perspex is there to prevent humidity escaping, then drilling it would defeat the purpose?:$
> 
> it's amazing how strong they are... I've got a vat for my turts, and it only bows slightly.


Yeah I just thought of the humidity thing now :blush:


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## caribe

Cant find anyone that has them near me at all as they are all only local delivery!

Need to speak to the wife about it. As would get my Dovii to a MONSTER size in there. Really wanna push to get past 20" in the male.

How are your fish liking the pond then?

When you gonna get the Arrow?

Did you have to do any floor strenghening? (sorry for my awful spelling)


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## _simon_

The polypterus's have settled well, the silver dollars are cowering in some dark corner and my Oscar is just starting to explore.

I'm going to finish it all off first before adding any other fish unless something pops up too good to miss 

I've repositioned the desk lamp I was using as temporary lighting. It's only 11w but it's doing a very good job. I might just buy another one of those for the other side.


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## 200sex

that last photo is amazing love reading this thread :notworthy:


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## _simon_

Tidied up a bit today. Secured the net a little better so I could get rid of the wood and metal poles. This meant getting in and wading with the fishes which was fun feeling them round my feet/legs.

Very much in 2 minds about whether to keep the net as it is across or have it around the edge at about a 2' level. It doesn't detract from the viewing that much and will prevent big splashes from fish getting air born.

It'll all look much better once I get the plants in. Looks very bare at the moment.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> Tidied up a bit today. Secured the net a little better so I could get rid of the wood and metal poles. This meant getting in and wading with the fishes which was fun feeling them round my feet/legs.
> 
> Very much in 2 minds about whether to keep the net as it is across or have it around the edge at about a 2' level. It doesn't detract from the viewing that much and will prevent big splashes from fish getting air born.
> 
> It'll all look much better once I get the plants in. Looks very bare at the moment.
> 
> image
> 
> image


Looks great mate, way larger than i thought it is :mf_dribble:.


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## andy1234

Your missus must really love you mine wouldn't let me take up half the house with ponds its bad enough with one big tank and some reptiles.:whip:


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## _simon_

It took some serious persuading to get another one, she was fine with the turtles as she likes those but she finds fish boring. But generally she's a pet person as well which helps.

Ordered some new heaters today, 2x 500w titanium ones. The 2x Fluval E 300w's are just about coping in this weather but any colder and they won't be up to the job. 

Also bought another lamp, so it's running 2x 11w G23 Fluorescents which looks just fine to me. You can see for yourself in video below.

You can see some of the fish in the video, the Oscar and dollars were mostly in the corner by the filter pipes. 

Over the weekend I'll see about putting the plants in and perhaps some rock work. I need plant weights for the plants though as I know from my turtle pond that they'll end up floating otherwise. I've had to order the weights online though as nowhere local sell the amount I need.

I've also decided the net as it is, is the best choice but keeping it tight all around the edges is a bit of a problem so I've ordered some small black bulldog clips that I will clip all around the edge. Depending how it looks depends on whether it's just temporary until a better idea comes to mind or not but the immediate issue is to prevent my polypterus's getting out.

Forgot to mention humidity. The room is currently sat at 54% but it's pretty damp outside today having rained. Yesterday I noticed it sitting at 51%.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> It took some serious persuading to get another one, she was fine with the turtles as she likes those but she finds fish boring. But generally she's a pet person as well which helps.
> 
> Ordered some new heaters today, 2x 500w titanium ones. The 2x Fluval E 300w's are just about coping in this weather but any colder and they won't be up to the job.
> 
> Also bought another lamp, so it's running 2x 11w G23 Fluorescents which looks just fine to me. You can see for yourself in video below.
> 
> You can see some of the fish in the video, the Oscar and dollars were mostly in the corner by the filter pipes.
> 
> Over the weekend I'll see about putting the plants in and perhaps some rock work. I need plant weights for the plants though as I know from my turtle pond that they'll end up floating otherwise. I've had to order the weights online though as nowhere local sell the amount I need.
> 
> I've also decided the net as it is, is the best choice but keeping it tight all around the edges is a bit of a problem so I've ordered some small black bulldog clips that I will clip all around the edge. Depending how it looks depends on whether it's just temporary until a better idea comes to mind or not but the immediate issue is to prevent my polypterus's getting out.
> 
> Forgot to mention humidity. The room is currently sat at 54% but it's pretty damp outside today having rained. Yesterday I noticed it sitting at 51%.


LIKE IT LOADS :mf_dribble::mf_dribble::mf_dribble:

How do you feed them? thru the screen?
Also, is the tub curved from the sides or is it the water that curves it?


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## _simon_

Yeah just chuck the food in through the net. The water causes the sides to bow in/out but that's normal. It's not so noticeable on my turtle one due to the wooden surround I put on it. The Laguna blurb does confirm they're ok for free standing and are resistant to cracking.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> Yeah just chuck the food in through the net. The water causes the sides to bow in/out but that's normal. It's not so noticeable on my turtle one due to the wooden surround I put on it. The Laguna blurb does confirm they're ok for free standing and are resistant to cracking.


I thought these tubs we're solid, but anyway they are water resistant.

are you going to add plants, slates around the pond? although it does look bare still looks great.


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## _simon_

For inside the pond I'll add some large fake plants, no point having live as my oscar would pull them apart. I've got various rocks I can put in, haven't gotten around to cleaning them yet.

I'm in two minds about bothering with cladding or not but I may put some wood around the top of the pond that I can stand real plants on.


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## _simon_

Just a humidity update of 46% which is well within normal household humidity. I am surprised at this given the new pond is heated to 26C but there you go. Room temp is currently 21.9C.


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## _simon_

Thought I'd show you that looking down on fish doesn't have to mean you only see the top profile. Unfortunately the camera focused on the net but with your own eyes you see past it and focus on the fish.


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## _simon_

Bulldog clips arrived today and work a treat. Net is on tight all the way around now so no chance of any fish slipping out. Clips look ok too as the arms can be folded flat.


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## abadi

I like it alot!, have you assembled the light yet?, wanna see how it looks like.


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## _simon_

I added the other light yesterday mate, check the video and one of the previous pics. There's a black lamp either end.


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> I added the other light yesterday mate, check the video and one of the previous pics. There's a black lamp either end.


Oh, haven't noticed.

can see it now : victory:


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## _simon_

Fish got a bit too excited at feeding time tonight and splashed up the wall, handily I've been holding onto a nice length of black acrylic for years and never found a use for it until now, so it's now a splash-back slightly angled so the water runs back in.

Also relocated a few artificial plants for the top of the pond. Adds some cover for the fish if they want it and makes it look a little nicer.


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## caribe

Looking really good.


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## _simon_

Plants and rocks added. My Oscar has already been moving the plants and I'm sure he's not done yet so who knows where they will end up!


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## bothrops

Looks awesome. Personally I'd consider moving the pump unit to the corner and hiding it behind a few rocks/plants. Provided the return from the filter is the opposite side to the pump unit, there should be no issues with dead/stagnant areas.


:2thumb:


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## _simon_

Good suggestion


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## spinnin_tom

ho shizzle.. looking good.
is that bowing at the front?


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## _simon_

Yeah but nothing to worry about.


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## bothrops

_simon_ said:


> Good suggestion
> 
> image


 
Now THAT's the dogs danglies! :2thumb::no1:


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## abadi

_simon_ said:


> Plants and rocks added. My Oscar has already been moving the plants and I'm sure he's not done yet so who knows where they will end up!
> 
> image
> 
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> image
> 
> image


WAY better than i thought it would be, you can easily see through the water, great view! :no1::no1:


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## _simon_

2x 500w heaters came today from Hong Kong.


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## _simon_

Few pics from the other day.


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## _simon_

Unfortunately I'm having to forget about an arowana I think. Silvers grow up to 4' which is too big and jardinis are often too aggressive to be kept with other fish. Anything else is just way out of my price range.

I'm thinking maybe just a nice shoal of clown loaches as they'll be easily seen from above, I just need to check on whether they will bother other bottom dwelling fish or not.


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## spinnin_tom

nooooo...... clown loaches get mahoosive and they suck the mucus off of fish (i've heard)
i'd get a school of adult silver dollars.. from above they look like a big school of flashing silver


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## _simon_

I've got 4 silvers and to be honest they're not ideal for top down viewing as they're so slim. 

The sucking slime thing is what concerns me but I'd not heard of loaches doing it? I know plecs do.


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> I've got 4 silvers and to be honest they're not ideal for top down viewing as they're so slim.
> 
> The sucking slime thing is what concerns me but I'd not heard of loaches doing it? I know plecs do.


we have friends with clown loaches, they had dollars but the loaches pestered them, constantly.


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## goldie1212

hmm, ive never heard of clown loaches doing this. pity if they do, they look amazing.


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## _simon_

What I've read so far online seems to suggest they're a peaceful fish that won't bother other fish. Can't see mention of sucking slime coat off etc Size isn't an issue, I know how big they get but I think I have the space.


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## bothrops

_simon_ said:


> What I've read so far online seems to suggest they're a peaceful fish that won't bother other fish. Can't see mention of sucking slime coat off etc Size isn't an issue, I know how big they get but I think I have the space.


 
When I was a teenager I worked in a large aquatics store. Our coldwater fish and our tropicals were all kept at the same temp (easier to have all tanks linked to the same giant filter system)

We had a massive 'show tank' lined to this system. In it we had a shoal of large (6" +) clown loach. One day the boos bought in three massive fancy goldfish. An oranda and two black moors. They were literally a big as softballs. They were put in this tank overnight.

When I got in the following morning all three of the large goldfish had had there eyeballs completely removed by the clown loach. The moors were swimming around still, but I could see completely through their heads as there was just a hole where the eyes used to be!


Also, they have very sharp spines that lie in little pouches under each eye and are extended out at right angles when they feel threatened. Take care when netting large ones!

Finally, as scaleless fish, they are very prone to whitespot.

Look great though:whistling2:


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## _simon_

ok well that's put me off clowns. Also I didn't know they had spines, learnt something new and interesting!


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## caribe

Clown loaches should be fine in there, 

Cant see them bothering the poly etc. Will look great from above darting around the tank.

Denisoni barbs (spelling wrong) think there called red line torpedo barbs. They would look nice as well. Bit expensive though but look great.


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## _simon_

Ah well bit of an update.

The Silver Dollars and the Oscar have been moved on. My intention is to have 2 male motoros in with my polypterus's. Alternatively an arowana or alternatively again an albino giant gourami.


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## caribe

Giant Gourami :war:

(that smiley has no bearing I just like it)

Awful looking fish like especially in albino form. Think it would look poor from above especially with a light substrate, would just look washed out.

Still think Jardini arrow and Rays

The arrow wont bother the ray and the pearls are stunning.

I had a corker that someone brought into the shop that I ended up taking home and keeping. He had bought a formosa (spelling) and needed the space. Lovely fish.


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## _simon_

I love big ugly fish :flrt:

The reason for thinking albino is that the pond is black, I wouldn't bother with substrate.

I think I've ruled out rays. Just too hard to get hold of and people know it so price them up accordingly. In addition they just grow too big. I can't see how I could house a ray for life in a 6' x 4' space taking into account the diameter of the fish. I've seen talk of 30" round motoros! 

Jardini is still a choice, especially now the dollars and oscar have gone but then again I've seen people with 7' - 8' ponds being told it's not enough space so I don't know. Seems to depend on which country based forum you ask on.

Another option I thought of last night is a Channa micropeltes. Obviously the polys would have to go and reading around 2' - 2'.5" is about the maximum they get in captivity. In a planted pond with floating cover I think that would look rather special.


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## Berber King

I have 4 clown loach,ranging from 6-10" in my tank with Poly delhezi and seneagalus as well as other fish,never seen them "sucking slime",or tearing eyeballs from healthy fish (mixing them with fancy goldfish i would expect it though).Ignore the people whos mates mate once said etc,clowns would be great in your pond.They are prone to whitespot,so install a UV,i did and have no problems.Id doubt the eye spines would pierce a good butyl liner.The added bonus of a shoal of cowns is the clicking you will hear as they interact,my tank sounds like a gun battle some nights.


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## caribe

_simon_ said:


> I love big ugly fish :flrt:
> 
> The reason for thinking albino is that the pond is black, I wouldn't bother with substrate.
> 
> I think I've ruled out rays. Just too hard to get hold of and people know it so price them up accordingly. In addition they just grow too big. I can't see how I could house a ray for life in a 6' x 4' space taking into account the diameter of the fish. I've seen talk of 30" round motoros!
> 
> Jardini is still a choice, especially now the dollars and oscar have gone but then again I've seen people with 7' - 8' ponds being told it's not enough space so I don't know. Seems to depend on which country based forum you ask on.
> 
> Another option I thought of last night is a Channa micropeltes. Obviously the polys would have to go and reading around 2' - 2'.5" is about the maximum they get in captivity. In a planted pond with floating cover I think that would look rather special.


 
MICROPELTIS........










Haway! Micropeltis takes up more space than a jardini. Its larger in every sense. Lovely when small but ugly things when big. The only saving grace is they are lazy and sit about. 2 feet is a small one. I would say they tend to average 3 feet in a tank. Bigger in the wild. Had loads of young ones that I used to sell and they grew INCREDIBLY fast. You would need to watch the netting at the top as they will find a way out. You would need a larger one to begin with. What about Channa Pleurocthalma (spelling is off probably)










Snakeheads are a shout but to be honest I would avoid in a top view tank like yours I just dont think they will do what you want them to. Jardini all the way 100%.

Or...... some nice Pike cichlids.... underkept and under rated. But just think the Jardini would be ace as it will cruise at the top.

To be honest I could suggest tons of fish I would put in there. My Dovii will be going in one eventually. Nice bitey pond.

If it was me I would put in a nice cichlid community, none of your oscars.

Grammodes, Haitiensis (although watch for bloat) Mana, RTM etc...

Although it would be a tank that had the capacity to turn into a war zone. But have seen it done before.


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## _simon_

Sorry to be pedantic but I believe my spelling was correct "micropeltes". You can google it to check 
In all the videos I've watched of them they're busy swimming around. 

Choosing fish is bloody hard!


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## caribe

_simon_ said:


> Sorry to be pedantic but I believe my spelling was correct "micropeltes". You can google it to check
> In all the videos I've watched of them they're busy swimming around.
> 
> Choosing fish is bloody hard!


Eh.... im not correcting your spelling mate. I am saying I may have spelt them wrong as I have not checked the proper spelling for them. Hence why I put (spelling may be off)

And me putting the name is caps is just meant to be a "shocked" statement thats all.


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## Moogloo

You dont want Micropeltes! They are psychotic little devils and will make your average Jardini look sweet tempered and cuddly!

Not to mention, Snakeheads, being big, predatory, and air breathers are serious jumpers!! All snakeheads would most likely cause problems jumping about.

As for Aros, Jardinis will be the smallest reaching about 90cm (3ft) but are also one of the most aggressive species, took me quite a while to convince my 1.5ft Jardini that a large male motoro was a good tankmate and they lasted a year and a half together before the Jardini decided to steal food from under the stingrays ray and ended up getting stung, it killed the aro 

---

As for clownloach having spines, their spines are on their cheeks, most catfish and certainly nearly all loach have them, they dont generally use them for anything other than wedging themselves into the smallest of gaps! Pain in the ass when trying to get them out the net.

Any goldfish with telescope eyes are prone to having their eyes eaten, its awful but they even eat each others eyes, common goldfish are terrible for eating the eyes of fancy goldfish!!

No loach should ever have been put in with fancy goldfish, would be a predictable outcome!

---

Simon, have you thought about Reticulatus (Teacup) stingrays? I've seen them for sale online, a pair of those ought to be ok in that size long term  Females might hit 30-40cm disk size and males about 25-30cm.

And also, i dont know, being surface dwellers they might be an awful idea as jumpers but... Anableps Anableps (Four Eyes)? They are coooooool and get about 30cm.

----

That all said, as you are finding out, its sooo tempting to go mad finding all the cool exciting trop fish get too big, too small, too dull, too jumpy and so on...

I think after keeping so many different species myself and having the indoor pond, it being black and a display bit... I think id be tempted to have some really large fancy goldfish in it 

I went to a suppliers once and they had a vat about the size of your pond, it all fairness it was a holding tank and part of a system....however... they had some awesome 9-10" red cap orandas and they were all squabbling and trying to jump out the water to hand feed, they were sooooo funny!

Look through this pgeof goldfish, this is one of the best breeders around.

Redcap Oranda

My favourites are:

Redcap Orandas
Butterfly Panda (aka Panda Moor)
Red and White Oranda

Goldfish look awesome when they are HUGE and good quality ones!


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## _simon_

Thanks for that long reply and you hit the nail on the head about getting carried away. I took a step back last night and thought what the hell am I doing. Just because I have more room now doesn't mean I should fill it with a big fish. I've been getting quite stressed lately trying to decide what to keep.

What I don't want is fish that hang around the bottom doing nothing or fish that skulk about in the corner, basically I do not want boring fish that do very little. I also don't want something hard to see from above. At the same time I want something manageable, something I can easily sell on or give away free should I want or need to. Something that'll fit in a net, not something I need to get into the pond with and physically wrestle out. 

Bearing that in mind and this will probably surprise a lot of people I actually came to the same conclusion that your reply finishes with.... goldfish. Whenever I go to the garden centre and see the cold water fish they're very active and often swarm on mass to where I'm standing. This is what I want! Active fish and not only that brightly coloured so they can be seen against the black of the pond.

I realise this is quite a turn around. I've kept tropical for years and only had a goldfish as a kid back when it was acceptable to give them away as prizes at the fair and keep them in a small bowl.

So with my mind made up I've phoned a few contacts today and the rest of my fish have been sold and collected. Heaters are out and I'm doing a 50% change (only did a 50% 2 days ago) with cold water to get the temperature down. This morning I added 2x 1200 lph power heads to aerate the water and create more flow.

I've sort advice from out resident goldfish guru on here goldie1212 and also on a coldwater forum. I'll have to see what's available but I think I'm decided on the good old common goldfish, along with some yellows and some comets. I'll be off out in the morning to see what's available. 

So there we go. Finally decided!


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## goldie1212

:2thumb: i am sooooo looking forward to seeing how this looks, and i am incredibly jealous too :lol2:


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## _simon_

Here it is stripped back bare. Spent an age hoovering the sand out, unfortunately it just never worked out, the water flow just blew it into an underwater dune and it looked messy.


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## caribe

:gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp::gasp:

Micropeltes to goldfish in 2 days .........

Best of luck if thats what you have decided but have a feeling you will get bored with them.


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## goldie1212

so you have no substrate in there at all? have you considered black gravel, still give you the same look but goldfish spend a lot of time sifting through substrate scavenging, they seem to really enjoy it, though i know people keep them in bare bottom tanks so i guess it will be ok. 

and bored...of goldfish...:gasp: is it possible :lol2:


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## _simon_

No substrate at the moment. I was thinking it'll be easier to clean as the waste can't get trapped anywhere. I have a pond vac on rollers so a flat bottom makes life much easier. If I was to put any in I'd have a look at the big bags of garden type gravel.


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## _simon_

Here's the first bunch of fish. I chose Sarasa comets. 5 red and white and 5 orange and white.


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## spinnin_tom

they are going in this pond?
where are the other fish if that's the case?


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## _simon_

spinnin_tom said:


> they are going in this pond?
> where are the other fish if that's the case?


They've gone in with my tropicals, why what's the problem? :whistling2:

Read my posts mate, the other fishes have been sold!


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## spinnin_tom

_simon_ said:


> They've gone in with my tropicals, why what's the problem? :whistling2:
> 
> Read my posts mate, the other fishes have been sold!


 

i wasn't gonna read through it 
it's too long (that's what she said)
no problem


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## _simon_

spinnin_tom said:


> i wasn't gonna read through it
> it's too long (that's what she said)
> no problem


next time I do a long post I'll start it with Once upon a time and break it up with drawings for you like the hungry caterpillar :2thumb:


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## _simon_

Finished stocking now with 5 yellow comets. tempted to add a few pure reds though.



















Next step is plants, finding what will work indoors and hopefully not get eaten or at least not too quickly.


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## _simon_

Bear in mind I haven't put any decor in, the video was more to show the colours and how active they are.


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## Moogloo

Omg i LOVE the hungary caterpillar... that book just... was my LIFE when i was a kid... but wait... it still is 

that and the book '5 minutes peace' by Jill Murphy lol

I feel awful for pointing out goldies  but i think they suit your situation perfectly 

Id have ended up the same way but with my rays both dying today, i dont think i'll ever keep fish again. nort even the smallest neon.


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## goldie1212

:2thumb: looking good, the colours are fantastic against the black arent they. i still dont understand how goldfish can be boring, they swim just like other fish, have great colours so show up nicely which other types of fish sometimes dont, always very active so great to watch from either the side or from the top, i dont see any down side if you have the space to keep them.


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## _simon_

goldie1212 said:


> :2thumb: looking good, the colours are fantastic against the black arent they. i still dont understand how goldfish can be boring, they swim just like other fish, have great colours so show up nicely which other types of fish sometimes dont, always very active so great to watch from either the side or from the top, i dont see any down side if you have the space to keep them.


I think it's more the idea of a Goldfish. They've historically been kids pets, something you could win at the fare and stick in a small bowl on their own. So not only do they have no other fish to interact with, they also stunt and stay small. One small fish on it's own swimming in a circle all day is pretty boring. 

Watching lots of active goldfish together is certainly not boring and having come from fish that like to eat each other and fight for dominance over a corner of the tank, Goldfish are such a breath of fresh air. They're probably the closest you can come to stress free fish keeping. No worrying about fish X turning on Fish Y or X and Y breeding and trying to kill off their tank mates. I'm very happy with my choice :2thumb:


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## _simon_

Moogloo said:


> Id have ended up the same way but with my rays both dying today, i dont think i'll ever keep fish again. nort even the smallest neon.


Really sorry to hear that and that was one of my fears if I went the ray route. I've read a few stories about rays dying for no apparent reason. Don't give up though mate, you'll miss fish keeping! See it as time to move on to something different, perhaps you can try rays again in the future.


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## caribe

I am glad that you like the gold fish.

.... I believe them to be a little boring purely based on this ......

They are not an "interactive" species like alot of the larger cichlids etc can be.

Thats it ....

They look nice in the Vat they really do. Nice and colourful. But think I would miss having something to come and bang of the glass and try and bite me all the time.

To each there own but really hope you like them.

Im not very clued up of cold water if im honest but I though Ghost Koi didnt get very big. Could you not have a nice "decent" sized fish?

(I am prepared for people telling me no) :lol2:


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## _simon_

All Koi get far too big. Goldfish do grow to a decent size in my opinion at around 12"? Depends on your idea of a decent size I guess.


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## hippyhaplos

So koi are too big then?:whistling2:

Looking good.... I might have to get one, filled with fancies


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## _simon_

Yep goldfish being smaller have a gentler suck on them :whistling2:


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## caribe

Yeah just did some research the now about them.

Not something I know about, cichlids and oddballs yes, goldfish and koi = no :lol2:

You getting anyother gold fish? Shubunkins? (spelling may be off)


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## hippyhaplos

_simon_ said:


> Yep goldfish being smaller have a gentler suck on them :whistling2:


 And more appropriately sized mouths


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## Moogloo

I just dropped my drink i was laughing so much at those last comments!!


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