# setting up a reef tank ( complete noob!)



## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

hey Guys, i have decided that im going to use my 2x1x1 tank as a reef tank. I have spent all day trawling forums/fact sheets/websites.......and im still a bit clueless! 


Am i right in thinking that the live rock will act as a filter but i need to use a filter aswell to circulate the water and to be sure the water is clean? I have seen a squillion different ypes of lights and i have NO idea what type i need. Also, a tank that size, do i need a protein skimmer? 


please be patient with me......i am probably gonna ask a million questions before i start my shopping lists.


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## scarlettdecourcier (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi  I've been thinking about doing this too, I have a freshwater tank at the moment but would love to branch out. I was speaking to a woman today who has a reef tank shop, she said you need a blue light, and that the rocks do provide filter but yes you need a filter as well. She also said that you can buy special tanks that come equipped with the blue light in them (apparently they can be quite hard to find). 

I'm really not an expert myself but she definitely knows what she's talking about when it comes to freshwater fish so I imagine she's pretty up on the reef scene too  

Good luck!


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

scarlettdecourcier said:


> Hi  I've been thinking about doing this too, I have a freshwater tank at the moment but would love to branch out. I was speaking to a woman today who has a reef tank shop, she said you need a blue light, and that the rocks do provide filter but yes you need a filter as well. She also said that you can buy special tanks that come equipped with the blue light in them (apparently they can be quite hard to find).
> 
> I'm really not an expert myself but she definitely knows what she's talking about when it comes to freshwater fish so I imagine she's pretty up on the reef scene too
> 
> Good luck!


 
i have seen the tanks with everything built into them. I seriously considered guying one but i fancy something a little bigger and this tank is empty so will be perfect. I Just need to figure out what else i need to get it going . And what order i do things in. Its exciting !


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

You will need to begin with about 20 kilo of live rock, heater, filter, lights (depending on what corals you plan to keep you can have T5s, LEDs,Metal Halides etc), powerhead for flow and some way of measuring salinity preferably a refractometre. You might not need a skimmer but would recommend getting one. A tank that size will be slightly harder to keep stable than a bigger one but if you keep on top of it it will be ok. I would recommend trying to incorparate a sump into your system if you can it will make life easier and you can hide most of the equipment in there. :2thumb:

The love rock does act as filtration and some people use it as the only method but I would say you need something else too as in a small tank you might struggle to keep the params stable. Some people use an internal canister filter or an external filter filled with media to help. I use a deep sand bed in the sump and its working for me.

Lighting is a big topic for debate with some people swearing by T5s others metal halides and some LEDs. If you are not bothered about electricity costs and the cost of changing bulbs look into metal halides.


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## cnella (Feb 24, 2010)

would 20kg of live rock in such a small tank be too much? I'm looking at getting one of those orca 550's and was thinking around 10 or so kgs of live rock would be suffiecient and that would be in 128 litres!

think i'll be looking at this thread often too for advice, ive had marines in the past but it was at least 10 yrs ago and then it was just fish, sand and tufa rock, never had real live rock.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I think people say roughly 1kg of live rock per gallon but as long as there is good flow around the rock it won't matter if you have more. Better to have too much than too little.: victory:


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

Scrap the tank you have and buy yourself an all in one like a redsea max 130D or a D&D nano cube or a river reef. They will have everything you need to start off and they look so much more tidy as they don't have all the electrical equipment visible in the tank. Its a great way to start where you can learn all the basics, I done it for a year then upgraded to my 100 gallon tank and I am so glad I did it that way as I was a complete novice in the marine world and I have learnt as I have gone along. 

HTH


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

That is a little small for a reef tank, but you'll be able to keep softies and probably some LPS corals in there.
You shouldn't have a seperate filter on a reef tank, the skimmer (you need one IMO, check out the Deltec HOB skimmers) and the live rock will provide all your filtration.

Do LOTS of research, pm me for links if you want, but be warned, they're not overly easy to set up/mantain and they're not cheap to run.

Oh, and they're very addictive :blush:

EDIT: You can have too much rock IME, I'd be looking at 5-10Kg max in a tank that size.
I'd also go with T5 lighting, it's cheaper to run and you'll struggle finding a suitable halide for a tank of that depth.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> Scrap the tank you have and buy yourself an all in one like a redsea max 130D or a D&D nano cube or a river reef. They will have everything you need to start off and they look so much more tidy as they don't have all the electrical equipment visible in the tank. Its a great way to start where you can learn all the basics, I done it for a year then upgraded to my 100 gallon tank and I am so glad I did it that way as I was a complete novice in the marine world and I have learnt as I have gone along.
> 
> HTH


This is probably your best bet TBH, by the time you've bought all the kit for yours, you could probably have picked up a complete system.
The D&D kit is extremely good :2thumb:


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## chrisg82 (May 5, 2008)

I myself have just starting to setup a reef tank, will take few photo for you later, managed too get a river reef tank off ebay for about £35 including stand and tropical fish, I then sold the fish on here for £15 so £19.
Would say the 95 ltr river reef is amazing with so many opitions and would have paid more for it.

so far got 7 kg of live sand and about 11 kg of live rock in there, 4 turbo snails and 3 hermit crabs.

good few learnings as well, like purchase ro salt water from local fish shop to save hassle. and purchased rock from 3 different shops and best bit came from a pets at home store which is covered in life and little creatures.

Cheers

Chris


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Be aware that RO water from local shops can have high TDS readings and depending how far away you live from one it might not be practical. I have an RO/DI unit for sale in the aquatics section.


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## reptilemaniac (Nov 3, 2009)

*reef*

all above info is great and correct but just a few tips for you as i had a reef then changed to mixed fish and reef - ok here goes in the size tank you mention it will be fairly difficult to maintain your levels definately the bigger the better also as for lighting halides on a tank that size will evaporate the water so quickly you will be topping up a lot as the heat that they give off is tremendous and remember that evaporated water is replaced with fresh RO water not salted so keep an eye on your levels also a skimmer is vital it takes away so much of the waste and is sooooooo needed a sump will help a lot and can be hid most of the time good layer of live sand and lots of live rock also live rock is only effective if it has water flowing through it thats how it works so power jets power jets power jets the more water movement the better and last but not least patience and money - once established you will never look back but dont try to fumble your way through as you will pay big time in the end hope this helps


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> Scrap the tank you have and buy yourself an all in one like a redsea max 130D or a D&D nano cube or a river reef. They will have everything you need to start off and they look so much more tidy as they don't have all the electrical equipment visible in the tank. Its a great way to start where you can learn all the basics, I done it for a year then upgraded to my 100 gallon tank and I am so glad I did it that way as I was a complete novice in the marine world and I have learnt as I have gone along.
> 
> HTH


thanks for the advice Chrios but you should know i dont do anything the easy way! i did think about buying a nano cube but then my OH pointed out that he knows i am not going to stop at 1 tank........its in my nature to start small and then go huge! I would rather do the research and know what i am doing and why than have a false sesne of security from a "plug and play" tank. BUT......it would look so cool in the corner of my bedroom if i find one cheap enough i may just do that.



Corsetts said:


> That is a little small for a reef tank, but you'll be able to keep softies and probably some LPS corals in there.
> You shouldn't have a seperate filter on a reef tank, the skimmer (you need one IMO, check out the Deltec HOB skimmers) and the live rock will provide all your filtration.
> 
> Do LOTS of research, pm me for links if you want, but be warned, they're not overly easy to set up/mantain and they're not cheap to run.
> ...


I have been looking at skimmers on fleabay, also at RO units and all the other gadgets. I used to keep trops and have thought about getting into marines a few times but that was ages ago. I knew the basics then, but technology has moved on so fast that today, i have no idea about what is good and whats not! Thanks for the tip on the T5s, thats exactly the sort of thing i was looking for. There is such a choice of equipment its easy to waste alot of money on the wrong thing so any advice is great.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I wouldn't get a Red Sea Max or a River Reef tank they are pretty shite IMO. Also I would not just run a reef with just live rock and a skimmer as the means of filtration but thats just personal preferance. Try and incorporate some other means of filtration like deep sand bed or refugium and it will make life so much easier. Be careful what skimmer you buy too on ebay as there are alot of cheap ones on there that are crap. Like someone said look at the Deltec range of hang on skimmers they are very good.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

The problem with running a filter and live rock is that you have conflicting systems.
By allowing the rock to do all of the work, the de-nitrifying bacteria can work far more efficently.
If you run with a seperate filter, you can end up having nitrate problems.

Definately tread carefully with skimmers, there's an awful lot of overated tat out there, you definately "buy cheap, buy twice" with marine kit.
This is the smallest Deltec HOB skimmer, you really can't go wrong with Deltec kit.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

ok, will have a look at the deltec skimmers. After somebody saying that T5s would be best for the size tank i have would this work ok with the coral and white tube as standard? T5 Aquarium Fish Tank Overhead Lighting 2 x 24w 60cm on eBay (end time 18-Apr-10 16:31:45 BST)


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

That looks fine.
The "Coral" light, I assume, is an actinic which gives a very Bluey/purple light and makes some corals fluoresce.
You don't actually need an actinic, corals will grow perfectly well without them so you'll get more light output by swapping it out for another tube.
Saying that though, corraline algae grows far better with actinic lighting (it looks nice although can be a pain eventually) and coupled with the 10,000K tube should give a nice, balanced light.
I run 4, 80W 10,000K white lights but still use 2, 54W Actinics to get that lovely Green glow


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Corsetts said:


> The problem with running a filter and live rock is that you have conflicting systems.
> By allowing the rock to do all of the work, the de-nitrifying bacteria can work far more efficently.
> If you run with a seperate filter, you can end up having nitrate problems.


How's that? How can having a DSB or refugium etc cause you to have nitrate problems?I am new to reefkeeping but don't know many people who just use live rock and don't have some other type of filtration like DSB, refugium or caulerpa etc run in the sump.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

Andy said:


> How's that? How can having a DSB or refugium etc cause you to have nitrate problems?I am new to reefkeeping but don't know many people who just use live rock and don't have some other type of filtration like DSB, refugium or caulerpa etc run in the sump.


A DSB or refugium are fine (although I'm not convinced by DSB's long term) its seperate cannister filters that are the problem.
The denitrifying bacteria live in the rock under aerobic bacteria. They can't access oxygen so they extract if from nitrate, turning it into nintrogen gas in the process.
If you run a seperate cannister filter, most of the aerobic bacteria will colonise that in preference to the live rock. Without that layer of aerobic bacteria sucking down the oxygen, the denitrifying bacteria won't thrive, hence the nitrate problem. 
You can, obviously, run a seperate nitrate busting filter (like the Korralin sulphur denitrator) which works fantastically well, but they are obviously an unnescessary complication if you manage to get a well balanced Berlin system.

Cannister type filters are very good at what they do, i.e coverting ammonia to nitrate, but that nitrate end product _can_ be a real nuisance in a reef tank.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Reef tanks are like reptiles, there are set guidelines but everyone will do it differently.

As a basic starting list you will need, a 

-Glass tank
-Stand
-lighting (will depend on what corals you want to keep)
-Heater
-Strong powerheads
-refractometer
-high quality reef salt
-dry agronite sand (dont bother with live sand, waste of money IMO, LR will turn your sand live in time)
- An RO unit (for best poss water quality)
- Tubs, extra powerheads and heaters for mixing
- Lots of test kits

As for the ammout of live rock, everyone does theirs differently. If you are going for the 2x1x1 thats about 15 US gallons. I wouldn't go over 15KG, 7 or 8 KGs would be fine IMO though. Everyone I know uses 1lb per gallon but its up to you.

You wont need a skimmer on such a small tank IMO as weekly or Bi weekly waterchanges would be fine seeing as your stocking is going to be very small.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

How to setup a Nano Tank - UltimateReef.com


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

I didn't know we could post links to other forums, this is my tank on there 

That tank is a nano though, and although small, I wouldn't class a 2 X 1 X 1 as a nano, personally, and IMO it would be worth running it Berlin style.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Andy said:


> How to setup a Nano Tank - UltimateReef.com


 
thanks andy, i fell asleep looking through that site last nite!



Corsetts said:


> I didn't know we could post links to other forums, this is my tank on there
> 
> That tank is a nano though, and although small, I wouldn't class a 2 X 1 X 1 as a nano, personally, and IMO it would be worth running it Berlin style.


The berlin style appeals to me ALOT as its cutting down on the amount of hardwear i need to get going and i love the "natural" approach. I dont want to heavily stock the tank, i am in love with the idea of putting live rock in there and letting it flourish, along with just a little few pretty fish and some inverts.

ok, so lets say i have set my tank up with a heater, power heads, lights and sand in the bottom. Then i add live rock. i get it up to now. Theoreticaly, even if i do nothing then the live rock should slowly spring to life and stuff will just grow? at what point can i decide to add other bits and pieces? and is there a kit i can but with all the water testers i need?


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

You wouldnt class a 12 gallon tank as a nano? Most people say below 5 gallons is a pico, 6-30 gallons is a nano.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> thanks andy, i fell asleep looking through that site last nite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) Yes, if your rock is from a good source, you should get some hitchhikers floroushing. Not all of them will be desireable though of course 

2) No. Salifert kits are the best, and they are only available seperately.
You don't need them all, just the basic ones (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, pH, phosphate)



Love_snakes said:


> You wouldnt class a 12 gallon tank as a nano? Most people say below 5 gallons is a pico, 6-30 gallons is a nano.


Well it could be a nano, I don't like to put clear dividers based on size, it's down to how you run them as well.
The tank in that link is a self-contained nano, and they work well.
In fact I ran one for a while alongside the reeftank with a Mantis shrimp in it.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> thanks andy, i fell asleep looking through that site last nite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, forgot this bit. 
You can slowly start adding stock once your nitrie and ammonia levels have dropped to zero and your nitrate levels have started stabilising.
As for how long? that's a real "piece of string" question and depends on loads of variables.
Google "Marine tank cycle" to bore yourself silly 

Typically, very roughly, it would be about a month before you can start adding stuff.
Also depends very much on what you want, some livestock is very, very fragile and other things are almost indestructible.


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

Corsetts said:


> Well it could be a nano, I don't like to put clear dividers based on size, it's down to how you run them as well.
> The tank in that link is a self-contained nano, and they work well.
> In fact I ran one for a while alongside the reeftank with a Mantis shrimp in it.


Most people these days who run nanos run them closed, as in, not off of another larger tank. Even people I know who run mantis tanks set them up completely seperate. But yeah, its all just lables.

As for when you can add stock, it depends on where you get the live rock. If you find someone breaking a tank down close to you and keep the rock wet while transporting you might not even have a cycle.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Corsetts said:


> I didn't know we could post links to other forums, this is my tank on there
> 
> That tank is a nano though, and although small, I wouldn't class a 2 X 1 X 1 as a nano, personally, and IMO it would be worth running it Berlin style.



I love your plating monti if you ever are getting rid of any frags :whistling2:

I see you are using the lowbays I have two of those in the garage I need rid of if anyone wants them they can have them.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

Andy said:


> I love your plating monti if you ever are getting rid of any frags :whistling2:
> 
> I see you are using the lowbays I have two of those in the garage I need rid of if anyone wants them they can have them.


I'll certainly let you know mate :2thumb:

I must update that thread actually, the lowbays have gone and been replaced with T5's now


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## Bearnandos (Nov 24, 2009)

fantapants said:


> thanks andy, i fell asleep looking through that site last nite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Other thing's I would suggest - get yourself some egg crate - place this 1" from the bottom of your tank using piping suitable for drinking water usage (DIY shop) - this will provide a stable platform for your rocks and prevent rock settling which can cause your rocks to topple in the future.

When you buy your aragonite sand - make sure it is the fine grade as copepods and other critters need this grade inorder to thrive..this in turn will feed any corals or fish.
2" sand bed will be fine for your size tank - just remember to top up every 6 months as the aragonite will dissolve slowy...thats why its a excellent substrate as it will buffer your PH to 8.2 and replemish your calcium lvls.
I do prefer live aragonite sand as I don't need to wash the sand!!! really hard cleaning sand you know......:whistling2: if you wish to use live sand...buy from ebay or check around...again huge price differences.

T5's if keeping LPS corals will need changing every 6-7 months so if you buy a second hand unit - do check how old the tubes are.

Salt - if you are planning to use good RO water, TDS reading of under 30 is good...many RO water from shops are over 200...which is pretty close to my tap water!!! (would rec buying TDS meter - pretty cheap from ebay) Use a good marine salt like Red Sea Pro as it is designed for RO water. Do shop around as price difference is huge - I get mine from Porton Garden Aquatic & Pets: Home which is pretty cheap.

Live rock - ratio required is 1lb min to 1.75lb max per gallon.
When picking up cured live rock - smell it first...make sure that it smells like a fresh day at the sea side....if it smells like rotting eggs - it is un-cured. Make sure that it feels light compared to size.....dense live rock is not as effective as a filter so not worth the money.
When you find live rock that you like - make sure you bring a bucket to contain the rock filled with 50% marine water - live rock will start to die off at a rate of 20% per hour....tho many shops will deny this as they wish to save their water............

Hang off refugiums are great for small tanks if you don't want a sump...really fun as well when you see all the life that pops up in there.
Good Luck


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

Corsetts said:


> I didn't know we could post links to other forums, this is my tank on there



Nice set up Corsetts : victory:

Here is my RSM and my 4x2x2 upgrade :2thumb:


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## alpharoyals (Nov 21, 2007)

fantapants said:


> I would rather do the research and know what i am doing and why than have a false sesne of security from a "plug and play" tank.



I know what you mean and I was the same but buying the RSM was the best thing I did in my opinion and I was really sad to see it go. While I had that tank I learnt so much more, I now have a DSB, a closed loop system, 6x T5 light unit, a carbon reactor, a phosphate reactor and today I installed an Ozone Generator :2thumb: Im just learning as go, I am so excited (Tamz isnt LOL)


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## FreakOonique (Oct 1, 2008)

alpharoyals said:


> I know what you mean and I was the same but buying the RSM was the best thing I did in my opinion and I was really sad to see it go. While I had that tank I learnt so much more, I now have a DSB, a closed loop system, 6x T5 light unit, a carbon reactor, a phosphate reactor and today I installed an Ozone Generator :2thumb: Im just learning as go, I am so excited (Tamz isnt LOL)


I'm sorry babe, but I find it hard to get excited over an Ozone thingy :blush::lol2:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

are these lights anygood? i really like the idea of them (especialy the 5 year gaurantee) but obvioulsy dont want to buy any crap thats not going to last.

Aquaray Solid State Lighting


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

Well, I'm going to be controversial, and say no.
If you don't intend keeping any corals at all though then they'll be fine.
LED's are the future of reef lighting, I'm convinced of that, but I don't think (IMO) we're quite there yet...


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Corsetts said:


> Well, I'm going to be controversial, and say no.
> If you don't intend keeping any corals at all though then they'll be fine.
> LED's are the future of reef lighting, I'm convinced of that, but I don't think (IMO) we're quite there yet...


 
I get what you mean. So its better to wait for a while until the technology improves before investing in LEDS? i have found a light canopy that holds 3 T5 tubes and it comes with 2 whites and one blue......will that be better? Had a nosey around my local shop today aswell and they have "ready made" selelctions of live rock with a few different polyps and zoas on......would something like that be a good starting point once the tank is established? also i was amazed by the choice of live rock, there was a fantastic donut shaped piece and i really really hope its still there when i get the tank sorted out.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I run my tank solely on LEDs and keep SPS,LPS,clams and a nice BTA all doing fine. I would go for the HD1000 over the strips though.

LEDs don't give as much growth as metal halides etc but are alot cheaper to run and you do not have to change bulbs every six months. There are pros and cons to all lighting systems its a case of weighing them up and going for what you think is best for you. I didn't want the expense of the electricity and the £80 bulbs every six months so went for the LEDs. I do think T5s give better colours on the corals though.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> I get what you mean. So its better to wait for a while until the technology improves before investing in LEDS? i have found a light canopy that holds 3 T5 tubes and it comes with 2 whites and one blue......will that be better? Had a nosey around my local shop today aswell and they have "ready made" selelctions of live rock with a few different polyps and zoas on......would something like that be a good starting point once the tank is established? also i was amazed by the choice of live rock, there was a fantastic donut shaped piece and i really really hope its still there when i get the tank sorted out.


3 T5's and an actinic sounds ideal to me.
The "ready made" rock sounds fine, but TBH, on somewhere like Ultimate Reef, people give away softies all the time.
I can send you a few bits FOC when you're set up if you like.

EDIT: Thinking about it, in actual fact that may be a bit overkill on a narrow tank. For just softies and LPS, I reckon two tubes would be more than sufficent and I wouldn't, personally, try and keep SPS in a tank that size.



Andy said:


> I run my tank solely on LEDs and keep SPS,LPS,clams and a nice BTA all doing fine. I would go for the HD1000 over the strips though.
> 
> LEDs don't give as much growth as metal halides etc but are alot cheaper to run and you do not have to change bulbs every six months. There are pros and cons to all lighting systems its a case of weighing them up and going for what you think is best for you. I didn't want the expense of the electricity and the £80 bulbs every six months so went for the LEDs. I do think T5s give better colours on the corals though.
> 
> ...


That's fantastic! how long have you had the clam soley under LED's?
I grew mine of from the size of a peanut a few Years ago, but that was (at the time) under nigh on 1kw of lights!


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## cnella (Feb 24, 2010)

Wow, some fantastic pics here, if i manage to get anything like that when i eventually get my marine tank set up i'd be well chuffed


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I have only had the clam about 6 months but its been under LEDs all the time I have had it. I have only had the tank since last August but ran it on LEDs since day one. I suppose I have not got anything to compare them too since I have never ran anything else. I am happy with them though and wouldn't change them yet and would only change them for some better LEDs. If I wanted an SPS dominated tank I would go for halides though.


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

Fair enough, I think the OP should probably disregard my comments about LED's then, yours is obviously thriving under them 8)


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Corsetts said:


> Fair enough, I think the OP should probably disregard my comments about LED's then, yours is obviously thriving under them 8)


 
Dont bloody say that i have JUST this minute ordered my T5 lights:gasp:. And thanks ofr the offer of a few bits when i get started, that would be fantastic.


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

T5s are tried and tested you won't go wrong with them. LEDs have not been around long and alot of people say they are shite. At least you know the T5s will work rather than trying something new on someone elses say so.: victory:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

If I had a spare £1,500 I would definitely get these bad boys...
Arcadia OT2-LED T5 and LED hybrid marine pendant 1200mm


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Andy said:


> T5s are tried and tested you won't go wrong with them. LEDs have not been around long and alot of people say they are shite. At least you know the T5s will work rather than trying something new on someone elses say so.: victory:


 

I know, i dont mind. This tank is just a starter tank to see if i enjoy the process.......if i do then its going to get bigger and bigger so probably be able to try lots of lights in the future. Also, the LEDS i was looking at before can be placed between your tubes on a standard T5 luminaire so maybe i could incorperate them in the future and go with half and half. Or maybe i could just have a dozen fishtanks in my house :whistling2:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

If you had even one all blue Aquaray and used for half an hour after main lights go out it makes all the corals glow absolutely stunning!


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Andy said:


> If you had even one all blue Aquaray and used for half an hour after main lights go out it makes all the corals glow absolutely stunning!
> 
> image


 
thats stunning! do you have a link for the ones you use?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I just use the Aquaray TMC: Aquarium Products - AquaRay AquaBeam 500 Reef Blues are the all blue ones which are good for bringing out the colour at night. 

My main lights are the TMC: Aquarium Products - AquaRay AquaBeam 1000 HD Ultra Lighting Tile Expensive but I got mine fairly cheap so...


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> Dont bloody say that i have JUST this minute ordered my T5 lights:gasp:. And thanks ofr the offer of a few bits when i get started, that would be fantastic.


No problem, seriously, just drop me a pm when you're ready and I'll send you a few bits.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Andy said:


> I just use the Aquaray TMC: Aquarium Products - AquaRay AquaBeam 500 Reef Blues are the all blue ones which are good for bringing out the colour at night.
> 
> My main lights are the TMC: Aquarium Products - AquaRay AquaBeam 1000 HD Ultra Lighting Tile Expensive but I got mine fairly cheap so...


 
thats the same brand i linked to before! i think i may have to try them once i feel a little more confident when the tank is set up.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

well its official. i have ordered the stuff i need and my tank is now EMPTY as the turtle have been moved to a bigger more palatial tank. SO i am going to read everything i can and then get my marine tank started. SO.....


while waiting for my new lights to arrive, can i set the tank up as i have my heater and a light tube in the canopy already? when i say "set it up" i mean can i add salt water and get the heater stable and add JUST some live rock to get it going? or should i wait for my lights? or am i right in assuming that the white and blue lights are only needed for corals and not necessarily for some live rock?

EDIT, also whats the best type of black paint to use for the backing?


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> well its official. i have ordered the stuff i need and my tank is now EMPTY as the turtle have been moved to a bigger more palatial tank. SO i am going to read everything i can and then get my marine tank started. SO.....
> 
> 
> while waiting for my new lights to arrive, can i set the tank up as i have my heater and a light tube in the canopy already? when i say "set it up" i mean can i add salt water and get the heater stable and add JUST some live rock to get it going? or should i wait for my lights? or am i right in assuming that the white and blue lights are only needed for corals and not necessarily for some live rock?
> ...


Yes, you can, you only need lights for the corals, as you say.
On the downside, if you have any freebie hitchhikers, then obviously they won't do so well without the main lights although anything thats survived the curing process will be fine without it and will spring into life once your lights are in place.
One advantage of running without lights is that it will hold back the algal blooms a bit though.

Sorry, can't help with the paint but if you do a search on Ultimate Reef, there's loads of threads on there about it.

Have you got your phosphate removing media ready to go? the sooner you start with that, the easier you'll make life for yourself.
If not, the cheapest is the Ultiphos brand available from Ultimate Discount Aquatics (based in Scotland but run mail order too.)

Also, now will be the time to get your skimmer running (if you went with one, obviously.)

Also, as is traditional, this thread is useless without pics :lol2:


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Regarding the paint use gloss not emulsion! I used emulsion now where the water has dripped down the back its coming away! I know some people have used blackboard paint too.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Corsetts said:


> Yes, you can, you only need lights for the corals, as you say.
> On the downside, if you have any freebie hitchhikers, then obviously they won't do so well without the main lights although anything thats survived the curing process will be fine without it and will spring into life once your lights are in place.
> One advantage of running without lights is that it will hold back the algal blooms a bit though.
> 
> ...


 So, today i am going to paint the tank (wont use emulsion andy!) and then tomorow i am going to go take my bucket to the LFS and buy me some live rock and some aragonite sand and RO water. What is the best brand of salt? Then i am going to put the phosphate remover into the filter, add the filter and the salted water and rock to the tank with the heater and .....thats it? I know i have to check my levels too. anything i have forgotten?

i expect my protein skimmer and luminaire to be here by the end of next week ( allowing for easter).


Will get pics up as soon as i have something in the tank!


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## Crotalus atrox (Dec 12, 2008)

Just finished reading it lol I didnt hear any mention of uv steriliser? I have always run one of these on my tank replacing the bulbs every 6 months, do you not actually need one of these then? or is it only needed on larger tanks hence not being mention?


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

Could of sworn I already replied to this?! I don't think UV is a neccessity more of a nice to have sort of thing.


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## Crotalus atrox (Dec 12, 2008)

ah ok.



Andy said:


> Could of sworn I already replied to this?! I don't think UV is a neccessity more of a nice to have sort of thing.


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## jesseh1988 (Feb 19, 2010)

a uv filter is only needed really if there is a chance the tank can get whitespot ( having fish such as tangs etc.) 

i have used emulsion on my tanks several times in the past, and it has always been fine. currently running a 1000 litre fish only with live rock tank (fowlr)


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> So, today i am going to paint the tank (wont use emulsion andy!) and then tomorow i am going to go take my bucket to the LFS and buy me some live rock and some aragonite sand and RO water. *What is the best brand of salt*? Then i am going to put the phosphate remover into the filter, add the filter and the salted water and rock to the tank with the heater and .....thats it? I know i have to check my levels too. anything i have forgotten?
> 
> i expect my protein skimmer and luminaire to be here by the end of next week ( allowing for easter).
> 
> ...












:whistling2:

You'll get as many different answers for this as there are brands of salt...

Personally, I use Instant Ocean because I run a Calcium reactor. If I didn't use a calcium reactor, I would (and have used successfully for Years) use Reef Crystals.
All the salts have their good and bad points but, IMO, you won't go wrong with Reef Crystals.
You will get a load of posts now with people arguing for their chosen brand, thats just what I would use.

I don't think you've forgotten anything, don't forget to get enough RO water to top up for evaporation losses though and you're away :2thumb:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Corsetts said:


> image
> 
> :whistling2:
> 
> ...


 
ok cool. How long will RO water keep for?


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> ok cool. How long will RO water keep for?


Ages.

Keep it sealed (if you can) as it can absorb pollutants from the air, but it's not something to really worry about.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

right, i havent set up the tank yet as i am still waiting for some new stuff to arrive. BUT we went to the local specialist shop and my kids are desperate for an anemone and a clown fish. Is this possible in the kind of set up i am aiming for? or do i need to reconsider my plans?


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## Love_snakes (Aug 12, 2007)

You can keep clowns without an anemone. They are pretty hard to keep and need stong light, pristine water conditions and a mature tank. I hear some clowns will house themselves in other things and even make tank filters and random rocks their homes.


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## mrNickmuss (Mar 30, 2008)

*lo tech the way to go.....*

I messed around for a few years with all the gadgets I could afford, I had a five foot tank with a four foot sump I had a load of sea horses which bred regularly. the equipment was; metal halide lighting, uv sterlizer, 4 canister filters and a massive skimmer. And a load of power heads. Live rock a deep sand bed and a load of caulerpa (seaweed)
When i moved house I kept the rock the sand lighting and a few of the power heads and moved it all into a Juwel 120ltr Bow fronted cornertank.(unfortunately I had to give the seahorses to the National Aquairum at Plymouth as our house was a wreck and the live rock sat in a shed for a few months before I set the tank up) I put a glass top on the new tank cos I was fed up with topping it up from evaporation and had not plumbed in my RO filter. And did nothing. I am now two years down the line. I still have done very little I have loads to look at and still have my origional hermit crab who is about 6 years old. I do have something lurking in the rock that eats small fish but that just bad luck. Granted I dont have many fish in it but the anemones and soft corals are doing fine and my puffer fish loves nibbling on the weed. I throw in the odd frozen mussel which I got from tescos I have no skimmer which is great cos its so quite!All I do is pull out some of the weed when it gets overgrown and do the very occasional water change. (about 20% every three months)
Dont be fooled into thinking you have got to spend money on gadgets to keep your fish healthy and happy. Spend it on live rock (without carnivourous lodgers!)


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## Corsetts (Dec 8, 2008)

fantapants said:


> right, i havent set up the tank yet as i am still waiting for some new stuff to arrive. BUT we went to the local specialist shop and my kids are desperate for an anemone and a clown fish. Is this possible in the kind of set up i am aiming for? or do i need to reconsider my plans?


Unfortunately not.
Anemones are one of the most difficult animals to keep. Their collection in the wild also causes massive problems because they are thought to be able to live for hundreds of Years and also when one 'nem is rmoved from the ocean, you're also wiping out future generations of clownfish.

As above, the clowns don't need a 'nem and will happily settle in a leather coral.

If you really have to try a 'nem, go for a captive bred bubbletip once your tank has been running successfully for 6 months plus, but I wouldn't expect it to live for very long.

A leather coral, some colourful zoanthids and ricorderas will look stunnnig and are (relatively) easy to care for.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Corsetts said:


> Unfortunately not.
> Anemones are one of the most difficult animals to keep. Their collection in the wild also causes massive problems because they are thought to be able to live for hundreds of Years and also when one 'nem is rmoved from the ocean, you're also wiping out future generations of clownfish.
> 
> As above, the clowns don't need a 'nem and will happily settle in a leather coral.
> ...


 
thats cool, i i just tell the kids that the leather coral is a , in fact, an anemone. Easy peasy........its the fish they want more than anything i think. i blame disney.


thanks for the info guys.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

This project has been on hold as i got messed about by a supplier and have been ill. BUT im good to go. sooooo

I have a canopy/lid for my 60cm tank and it takes a single 18" bulb. What colour should i go for for a simple reef? i am thinking that i could always add LEDs to supplement it. And do i need to put eggcrate on the floor of it as its so small?


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

I have no clue about lighting... that much I do know haha

But the eggcrate is there to act as a cushion. Should a rock tumble, it saves it from hitting the glass, saving a leaky tank. It also helps with the stability of the rocks, so imo I'd deffo go with the eggcrate.


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## owlbassboy (Jun 26, 2008)

do you know if its a t8 or t5 fitting for the light, probably the best thing you can do is retrofit it with 2x36wpowercompact t5s although if your lighting is t5 you could get away with a marine white bulb and some blue leds, feel free to have a look at my nano forum and we will help you as much as possible. http://thenanoreef.net

the eggcrate is there as a solid base for your rocks so nothing can dig under them, always put the rock in first then the sand around it.


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Weeeeeeell, just an update, i set up the tank with some water last week and made sure all my temps were ok and all was good.Today, i took the plunge and bought two pieces of live rock. Already i have seen a tiny crab and a starfish!


SO, whats the best next step? more live rock? oh, and should i need to feed it with anything specific as there is starfish and crab?


and a quick pic














EDIT, earlier in the thread i mentioned that i saw a doughnut piece of live rock in my local shop, i bought it today, it was right in the middle of a massive tank of rock and was half buried but it looks like its been left alone for months. Thats what the crab and starfish came from and i saw them within 5 minutes of putting them in the tank so hoipefully there will be some more aswell!


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## mEOw (Dec 28, 2006)

Looking good. 
Dont forget you need lots of flow around the live rock, my new tank is a 1ft cube and i have 2 small powerheads in there which brings my flow to about 30x the tank volume. 

Have you decided if you are going to run a filter in it or are you going to rely on your live rock for all the filtration? I tried running a filter in my last tank and had nitrate problems so i took it out and all was good again but that was years ago and things seem to have changed a bit in that time, it was recomended to run a filter back then but now people seem to accept that they have a habbit of turning into nitrate factories and are more hastle than they are worth. 

I went with Wave solaris marine power compacts for the lighting on my new tank, i have 2x 11w ones, they are half blue half white and seem to be doing a good job so far, means i have about 1W per liter of tank water which should be fine for everything i plan on keeping. 

Is your live rock on top of the sand? i only ask because some inverts will dig under the liverock if it is and that can make it all topple over, last thing you need is a lump of rock falling and cracking your tank. I have made that mistake and i dont plan on doing it again, can still see the stain on the carpet at my dads house. lol.

anyways, good luck with the tank, I will try and get some pics up of mine sometime, not happy with the way the rock looks at the moment so going to move it around and get it all looking good first.


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

i had a quick skim through this topic and would like to add my input aswell 

id say that the tank you have is too small for a sucessful reef.
like i said i only skimmed the topic, so dont know all the equipment your using.

i have a reef tank, been going since march this year. its a rio 180 and even that is too small for what i want 
heres a few pics to show you how i started and how it is now 

firslty i bought some grotto rock for base rock to build upon.
this was a bout £40 for a big box, about 25kilos id say.










then added some caulerpa and some small bits of live rock. annoyingly 2 blue damsels swam out of the rock as i put them in  cool that they were free, but i didnt want them and they werent on my stock list 
but anyways....

heres trhe tank with some live rock and caulerpa









added much more live rock and some polyps and other small bits










left it a few more weeks, regular water testing etc.

then added some soft corals. leather coral, finger leather coral, kenya tree frags and some pulsing xenia









now, a few months on and *touch wood* no problems this is the reef now 
got a few more corals. some acroporia, some more xenia and some more live rock. a new blenny, a mantis shrimp (not in main tank of course) and some more snails and crabs









there really is nothing more satisfying or relaxing than watching the fish and corals moving in the 4500 lph water movement 

also, been setting up new 4 foot fish only tank 
heres some pics

























this tank has a red toothed triggerfish, a violitan lion, a black and white clown, a pyjama cardinal, a midnight angelfish and a snowflake moray.
the snowflake is my fave so far!! 









where abouts do you live Fantapants? i might have some soft coral frags ready soon if your interested?


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

mEOw said:


> Looking good.
> Dont forget you need lots of flow around the live rock, my new tank is a 1ft cube and i have 2 small powerheads in there which brings my flow to about 30x the tank volume.
> 
> Have you decided if you are going to run a filter in it or are you going to rely on your live rock for all the filtration? I tried running a filter in my last tank and had nitrate problems so i took it out and all was good again but that was years ago and things seem to have changed a bit in that time, it was recomended to run a filter back then but now people seem to accept that they have a habbit of turning into nitrate factories and are more hastle than they are worth.
> ...


 
I have live rock, with a HOB filter thats running with carbon and phosphate removers. I have the HOB filter at one end and a powerhead at the other pointing at the front glass. Up to now i cant see any dead spots with zero flow but as i add more rock i will be adding another powerhead .

The live rock is on egg crate, with sand filing in the gaps. I too have 1w of lighting per litre that are half and half blue/white.

SO, i have had the tank up and running for over a week now. The nitrite levels have risen to .03mg/l and everything else is runing stable since i swapped the phosphate remover in the HOB filter, the levels have dropped right down. Buuuut i have noticed aswell as a ton of invert life from my rock........i have a lovely creeping carpet of cyano developing. I klnow this means my tank is maturing but it looks cack.

Can i do anything/ad anything to reduce the cyano?


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Pearson Design said:


> i had a quick skim through this topic and would like to add my input aswell
> 
> id say that the tank you have is too small for a sucessful reef.
> like i said i only skimmed the topic, so dont know all the equipment your using.
> ...


Weirdly, i have been looking today for a decent size tank for a FO system. My kids want fish, i want a reef. I know that ulitmatley the reef tank will get bigger, with me its inevitable :blush:.

And i live in the NW near wigan. And yes, i could be interested


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## Pearson Design (Jan 21, 2010)

i know that feeling 

i started marines when i was 15, im 30 now lol. and i started with a 2ft cube tank at first, then within a year i had 3 3 foot tanks, mostly just fish and polyps, and my massive 7ft by 3ft by 3ft reef tank  i put many years and a lot of money into it, only to have to break it down and sell it 5 years later when i moved out of my parents house lol

they are like a drug marine fish lol

but, they are the most fascinating fish you can have, and even a fish only tank can be a wonderful addition to a room 

as for frags, i live in hertfordshire SE but i could be willing to send them, as long as its either same day or next day guaranteed with a courier who is happy shipping livestock etc.. im sure we can sort something out


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Pearson Design said:


> i know that feeling
> 
> i started marines when i was 15, im 30 now lol. and i started with a 2ft cube tank at first, then within a year i had 3 3 foot tanks, mostly just fish and polyps, and my massive 7ft by 3ft by 3ft reef tank  i put many years and a lot of money into it, only to have to break it down and sell it 5 years later when i moved out of my parents house lol
> 
> ...


 
I have an adicitive personality so i tend to submerse myself in something for a few years and learn as much as possible about them. Then i move to something else but i have always loved marines, just never been in a situation where i can afford them before.

And awesome, let me know when you have some available


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Fantapants,

Any chance of given a rough guide to costs?


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## AshMashMash (Oct 28, 2007)

Cool stuff Ali! Look forward to seeing it all done! Live rock is always so exciting :flrt:


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## fantapants (Jan 4, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Fantapants,
> 
> Any chance of given a rough guide to costs?


Costs? ok......

Tank and heater and powerhead was free, Hang on back filter and phosphate remover was £20, replacement tubes £30, Egg crate £8, water test kits £48, sand and hygrometer £24, RO and salted water £14, sea salt £24, live rock £80.....protein skimmer £24, thermometer £4. May be more bits but i cant think of them right now. OOOH, i have a RO unit on order £65 and a refractometer and TDS meter (£45).

And i am looking at getting a new luminaire...........and probbly a bigger tank as i find rockscaping the nano to be real difficult.



AshMashMash said:


> Cool stuff Ali! Look forward to seeing it all done! Live rock is always so exciting :flrt:


Best thing ever is live rock. "ooh Barry, i can see a wormy thing", "where?", "right there (points aimlessly)"......best accessory ever is a magnifying glass


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