# ridiculously high prices



## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

just thought i would ask if pet shops should put the right description on animals? local pet shop selling standard corns such as amel's n normals but saying they are candycanes n bloodreds but obviously charging ridiculously high prices. 08 unsexed candycane ( amel ) for £150 this shouldn't be allowed should it? thought this would come under some sort of trade description act. i bought my butter motley from here a long time ago which i was told it was a banana corn :lol2: just wondering how they can keep doing this and what puzzles me is they have been open years. just one of many problems regards this shop, also tried telling the assistan but was told they had much more experience than me and they know what morphs they are selling. sorry about the rant as i don't like giving negative feedback but can anyone confirm trading laws regards this: victory:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Well, it depends on whether the animal was "fit for purpose".

If you bought a Bloodred Cornsnake from that shop for the purpose of producing baby Bloodreds when you bred it to another Bloodred Cornsnake ... and you got all normals... then obviously the snake wasn't fit for purpose.

However, to some extent it is also "sold as seen". If you buy a torn pair of jeans at a shop, you see the tear because it's obvious or pointed out on the label, you buy it anyway, you cannot take the jeans back because they're torn. If you're buying morph corn snakes you should *know* how to identify the morph you're buying.

Candycane is a subjective morph, since genetically they're amels and even a pair of Candycanes can throw typical orange-backgrounded amel offspring - but the genetic ones where there's a distinct and definable difference (it either is homozygous for bloodred or it isn't), that's where I'd get picky. 

That said, £150 is excessive for a "poor quality" candycane - but I would pay it for an EXCEPTIONAL one.


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

cheers m8 i would class it as an amel, understand the bought as seen point of view but if people where to tell you a certain corn was lets say het caramel, but came hatchling time and there was clearly no het how can people then justify bought as seen point? regards the shop though in my eyes its plain robbery, in most retail company's trading standards would surely come down on them like a tonne of bricks for selling in item at higher price with misleading description.: victory:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

I agree with you completely, which is why I'm quite happy to say to a shop "It's not possible for that normal-looking animal to be het for THOSE two traits, because if it was it wouldn't look like a normal."

But yes, if they are *provable* genetic traits like "het for caramel" then breeding it to a caramel should produce caramel offspring (and after a certain number of normal offspring when breeding to a homozygous animal, it becomes statistically very improbable that the animal is a het - but I've no clue how you calculate it - PaulH probably does!) and then it IS a case for trading standards.

Hence why I will only buy hets from the breeders where I know one parent was homozygous OR I'm willing to gamble... and usually where I have homozygous animals to test against.


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

certainly m8 i don't buy from these places no more, like you said it can seriously have an effect on your breeding plans. just annoys that they can't just be honest with their customers instead of thinking about quick money. im sure some people out there will buy that so called bloodred ( normal ) and imagine they breed it with a normal then sell the hatchlings as normal het diffused or bloodred:bash: as people already know newbies to the hobby are very trusting of their local rep shops and will take what they say as gospel. thank god we have people like you m8:no1:


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## Reptacular Ltd (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi

From shop point of view this is down to two reasons, they were trying to rip the customer off, or they do not know nothing about the reptiles they are selling. 

Either way this is completely wrong. We all make mistakes but trying to sell an amel for £150 is ridiculous. We sell them at £39.99 and they are well grown on and yearlings. We sold the last lot of candy canes for £79.99.

I certainly think that something could be done about this as it is misrepresentation. Trying to sell a snake as one morph, when it is something else. 

I would put it down more to the shop not knowing their stock, which they should at least learn about if they are expecting it in, how can they sell something and not know about it. 

Few shops round here are doing a similar thing on royals, and beardies. Obvious if you know, but not so clear if you are a novice.

We will be opening a shop in Rochdale in a couple of months, and this type of practice will not be happening in our store. 

Thanks.

Reptacular Ltd


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

wouldn't say they are lacking knowledge as their hatchlings are clearly merchandised properly but every time i go in there ( approx once every 2months for any equipment i may need ) there are many snakes being sold much dearer and labelled as certain morphs which they clearly are not. another one, a very small asian water monitor priced at £250. now this doesn't really annoy me as they can charge what they want but to say a normal corn is a bloodred then how can you believe them when they say for example they're selling a normal royal as a normal het pied? scary stuff, i wouldn't believe them but someone might do:whip:


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## Joshuashaw (Apr 27, 2008)

It's just as bad as the pet shops selling Sandfire bearded dragons when these dragons only ever come from the SF Ranch and if not, I would want certificates that they are offspring of mamas and papas of the SFR.


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## Reptacular Ltd (Nov 1, 2008)

100% agree. We had some sandfires in a few weeks ago, all had certificates.


Shops should not charge over the odds for bog standard reps. Alot of shops do not and the few that do this can only rely on the novices, once they realise and see through thats when they begin to struggle.

But they should still not use this practice. Its wrong. Plus they are putting a bad image on all of the genuine shops out there.


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## Simplylucy (May 22, 2009)

I've just paid £69 for my late 08 Candycane. I had no idea it was a Candycane until I posted pictures of her on here, I just fell in love with her colouring! :blush:


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

lucy1978 said:


> I've just paid £69 for my late 08 Candycane. I had no idea it was a Candycane until I posted pictures of her on here, I just fell in love with her colouring! :blush:


now this is a plus side, a chap near my work sells all his hatchling corns for £50 so either your either paying a little bit extra for some standard corns or getting a bargain for some nice morphs, but think he isn't bothered about this as he makes his money on viv builds. not all shops are bad but the ones that are usually give others a bad name: victory:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

One thing to keep in mind is that even *brilliant* shops can sometimes get it wrong. Sometimes the precise genetics of a morph are not known, for example - or new information proves that old information was incomplete.

For example, not all that long ago an EXTREMELY reputable shop - that I have heard very little bad about and have bought animals from in the past - and it's one of those you've heard of up and down the UK - was advertising normal corn snakes het for Anery, Hypo, Motley and Stripe. Fair enough ... except that an animal het for motley and stripe is a visual motley. Therefore, these normal-patterned animals cannot be het for both traits; if I bought it as het for stripe AND het for motley and expected to get one or the other outcome depending on which partner I chose for it I would be disappointed. 

Now, a reputable shop will see someone like me gripe about the incorrect labelling and FIX it - assuming that the someone-like-me can explain WHY it is wrong. The shop in question did indeed fix it as soon as they were made aware.

Incidentally, Danny... when you say the Bloodreds were normals, did you see their bellies? A young bloodred can quite often look very much like a normal, especially if it has very poor diffusion - but they'll still have uncheckered belly scales.


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

these normals were early 08's and 100% sure they were not bloodreds , just like the so called banana corn i bought. don't think there set ups are wrong ( although i mentioned this to them last year but as this is getting better will not go into details ) but their older snakes are labelled wrong and are adamant they are right. these are very noticeably different morphs than stated. i understand mistakes can happen to the best retailers but good retailers quickly reply to the their mistakes even though some are no fault of their own. like mentioned their hatchlings are clearly labelled which i admit can be hard to clarify a certain morph when young but these were over a year old. surely its no hassle to clarify the morphs they are selling? well you wouldn't of thought so, under stand where your coming from m8 and i assure you these are misleading: victory:


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## CrushedSouls (May 5, 2009)

1 Problem for shops is a simple 1 but can have devistating consiquences, is the fact that most purchase off Trade only Suppliers, so due to the Sheer number of morphs of different species of reptiles can sometimes be confussing. and unfortunatly mistakes can happen.

And the problem is a person will have a bad experience with a shop and then tell all there freinds dont go there and so the chain begins, if there is an error speak to the shop, ask for Certificates if they cant provide tell them why you think there is a problem, MOST shops will do some research and try to confirm or deny what you are telling them, HOWEVER there are some shops out there for the money.

My advise is simple DONT TRUST WHAT YA PETSHOP TELLS YOU, wether your are a newbie or a very advanced rep keeper always so your own reaserch...


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## brian (Oct 22, 2005)

If a shop wanted to charge £35,000 for a standard corn it can if you want to pay it thats up to you !!

A shop can charge what it wants for what it wants.....

If you don't want to buy from that shop thats up to you !! you have the choice so dose the shop...
No diffrent from buying a second hand car you pay your money you take your choice

The only thing wrong the shop is doing wrong is the discription.....
But saying that should someone be buying a reptile if you don't know what you are buying......
If this shop had a pied up at say £120 would you tell them or would you get hand in pocket and think what a grat deal thay have made a big mistake ..............

Just my point...........


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

I know of one well know reptile shop helping to set up other reptile shop and selling live stock at what they called trade price. Only when u look at their retail price list the were in fact the same! These new shops being inexperianced were ripped off by said shop. They were doubling the price and adding on vat so a £80 candy cane they were selling would be marked up as £170 by new shop. The snake and price I have made up
As an example but I do know the reptile shop was selling western hog noses to these two new shops for £79. Each which was suppose to be trade! Yet on their web site that was there retail price.(they would have to sell them at £160+. When I pointed this out to the two new shops they stopped buying from him. Doesn't help that even shops are ripping each other off! I put both shops in contact with some breeders and offered my baby hogs for £40 each. Remember there is no set law how much a basic amel should be sold for. If you think it's over priced then don't by. An amel in a shop be £30 but from a breeder you can get them for £10 to £15 so is a shop ripping people off? Has to be a mark up somewhere. If shops are finding it hard to get stock price goes up. If they pay full Wack for one ...price goes up.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

People selling snakes can always be naughty if they wanted to and say there snakes are het for this or that. Shops aren't going to know and nor is customer for another two or three years. By that time most snakes have already changed hands. Your not going to be able to go back to the shop to complain. Buy from a breeder one that has a good rep. If they look or sound dodgy don't buy.


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

BRIAN if you read back it aint the price that bothers me but the description does. now i have plenty of books and none describe certain morphs but do give great breeding advice. now a newby goes in there and buys a snake believing its bloodred then reads a breeding book and then asks for some advice. he the thinks breeding his bloodred to a normal gives all normal het diffused. he then sells these to another rep shop as normal het diffused. me or you then go in for a particular breeding corn pair this with a bloodred expecting half normals half bloodreds BUT ONLY GET NORMALS!!!. now see where the problem is, description is everything now i cant believe this isn't clamped down on. would you sell a springer spaniel as a cocker spaniel and get away with it NO. it aint entirely about the price though its still wrong to charge that even if it was that morph :bash::bash::bash:


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## Danny_mcr (Oct 22, 2008)

animalstorey said:


> People selling snakes can always be naughty if they wanted to and say there snakes are het for this or that. Shops aren't going to know and nor is customer for another two or three years. By that time most snakes have already changed hands. Your not going to be able to go back to the shop to complain. Buy from a breeder one that has a good rep. If they look or sound dodgy don't buy.


yeah i understand but if you had your own rep shop and had an amel n normal would try to pass them off as a candycane n bloodred? not just shops my mrs m8 had 2 corns kept in crap conditions with no stat, i offered to buy the two for £100 and they told me they were creamsicle and albino:lol2: amel and snow more like it anyway 19+ eggs in the incubator expecting all amel het anery. now if i didn't know any better i would of been expecting something completely different:whip:


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

Problem is there are so
Many colour morphs out there now it's not like it was fifteen years ago.when a corn came in only a handful of colours, a royal was a royal and not a spider or honybee and a common boa was common and not something else. The other problem is that some people are making there own names up for colours they are producing. It's going to be hard for shops and often have to go by what they are told. Then You have all the leopard geckos and the likes of names :albino super carrot tailed glow in the dark to remember. Unless all staff are know what they are something bound to go wrong. I would always go to a breeder: 1, if there is a problem they likely to sort it out. 2,you can see how they keep their animals. 3, you get to pick which one you want. 4, a good breeder will be able to sex the animal for you. 5, they will be cheaper than a pet shop. 6, you get to make a contact that has experiance in the
Type of animal your interested in. Etc..... I'm not condoning shops as they can be great places but if your buying for a pet or cos you like the colour then fine. But if you wanting to breed a certain colour you got to make sure you have the correct genes to start.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

Danny_mcr said:


> BRIAN if you read back it aint the price that bothers me but the description does.


The title begs to differ! :whistling2:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Danny_mcr said:


> not just shops my mrs m8 had 2 corns kept in crap conditions with no stat, i offered to buy the two for £100 and they told me they were creamsicle and albino:lol2: amel and snow more like it anyway 19+ eggs in the incubator expecting all amel het anery. now if i didn't know any better i would of been expecting something completely different:whip:


Actually, no you wouldn't expect something completely different.... since you'd still be expecting all visual amelanistic offspring. The only thing that changes is what those amelanistic offspring might be called and what hets they carry.

"Albino" - although people who *know* corn snake colours will say it's Amelanistic - is very commonly used by non-reptile people to mean "the snake that looks like an albino rabbit or mouse, white with pink eyes." Any time someone describes their snake as "albino" in text, I would be asking "Is it orange with red eyes or white with red eyes?" 

And if the other one has been described as and sold as a Creamsicle, it should be assumed to be one - it's an amelanistic hybrid of Great Plains Ratsnake and cornsnake. They can look very similar to cornsnake Amelanistics, especially if they have a LOT of cornsnake ancestors. 

So the offspring in your incubator will hatch out as *Creamsicles *het Anery, not Amels het Anery.

You didn't answer my question about the "bloodreds" and their bellies, though - did you actually check to see that they had belly checkers? There are some *really* craptacular Diffuseds out there, animals that are genetically carrying the pattern trait that Bloodred has, that just haven't been selectively bred for the "look". Without having seen for yourself whether or not they have belly checkers, you cannot say for sure that they weren't poor-quality Bloods.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

A shop should accurately describe the product they are selling, however, there is no "legal" system of naming colour morphs. Technically, you can call a corn snake the banan red popsicle greater spotted corn and there's nothing to say it's illegal to do so - you're still calling it a corn snake, which is the latin species, and technically, what it is. 

A few years ago it used to be a lot more popular to describe corn snake morphs as "designer corns". This was used for selective bred and sometimes for genetic, but also for pattern variations and just nice examples. If you're buying a pair of designer jeans you can't argue that well it wasn't worth £100 just for a Levi tag on the back - you saw it, you chose it, you paid for it, it was advertised as a pair of jeans and that's what you got.

Just like, I think by trading standards, if you choose to pay extra for a label on a snake, but it is the correct species of snake - that's up to you. Even if that label isn't what everyone in the country would call it - even if we know that label is wrong in the hobby, the person has still seen it, and decided to pay extra for a colour.

It's unfair and allows a lot of people to get away with mis-selling which should be illegal, but you can get 3-4 names for a single morph of corn snake - an amel could be called an albino, an amel, an orange, a creamsicle, a candycane, a sunglow, a reverse okeetee all of which are genetically similar (except cream obviously has the rat x heritage) and when you breed any of the two together you get back amels (or creams), so anyone could argue if you buy any of the above the price you pay is up to you based on a "design" that you want.

I often see animals labelled sunglow that I don't think really qualify, and same with candy and reverse okeetee.


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## robbyrob (Sep 4, 2008)

CrushedSouls said:


> 1 Problem for shops is a simple 1 but can have devistating consiquences, is the fact that most purchase off Trade only Suppliers, so due to the Sheer number of morphs of different species of reptiles can sometimes be confussing. and unfortunatly mistakes can happen.
> 
> And the problem is a person will have a bad experience with a shop and then tell all there freinds dont go there and so the chain begins, if there is an error speak to the shop, ask for Certificates if they cant provide tell them why you think there is a problem, MOST shops will do some research and try to confirm or deny what you are telling them, HOWEVER there are some shops out there for the money.
> 
> My advise is simple DONT TRUST WHAT YA PETSHOP TELLS YOU, wether your are a newbie or a very advanced rep keeper always so your own reaserch...


this is quite funny this is a bloke who owns a pet shop


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