# Staffy attacks toddler



## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Looks like another witch hunt against Staffies has begun

BBC News - Bootle toddler attacked by family dog

Last sentence in the article:

Angela McGlynn, whose four-year-old son Jean Paul Massey was mauled to death by his uncle's dog in Liverpool in 2009, has campaigned for new laws to try to prevent more attacks. 
She said: "My campaign is to raise pet awareness, it's not just on dangerous dogs. 
*"It's to highlight the other breeds of dogs that do attack and most definitely it is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier."*

Good god when will people learn?!


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

bampoisongirl said:


> Good god when will people learn....


...to stop leaving little kids within harms way of potentially harmful animals? :devil:


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

Crownan said:


> ...to stop leaving little kids within harms way of potentially harmful animals? :devil:


Exactly. It has nothing to do with the sodding breed!


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## PPVallhunds (May 23, 2010)

I think the answer is selective breeding and mandatory neutering of humans.

Just think about it a world where the idiots were unable to breed, after they all die out from old age there will be a word full of people with common sense and not only will dog attacks go right down but so will a lot of other problems.


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## mrkeda (Nov 6, 2012)

Crownan said:


> ...to stop leaving little kids within harms way of potentially harmful animals? :devil:


The pic in your sig pretty much sums it up.


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## Draco (Nov 23, 2005)

very helpful artical. Dog attact child, but no info like was the child on it owns, had the dog shown aggression before.

no lets not say anything apart from if a nasty dog and needs to be band


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm sorry but I have a very small dog and the only type of dog that has shown anything other than freindly interest are the staffy types and obvious hunting breeds such as greyhounds. Everyone else has put up with him jumping around them , he's only a pup, and at the worst have given him the effect of a 'clip round the ear' with a paw to say enough is enough, the ones I've mentioned have looked like they'd eat him given the chance. I know its down to the owners as to how thier dogs behave but you can't remove what is an instinct in breeds bred to hunt or defend/attack. Just out of interest what was the staff orriginally bred for? did it have a purpose or job. My dog is a chihuahua/papillon and I know they can be yappy/nippy but I've treated mine as any other dog and he's as bold as brass, will say hello to all and isn't frightened of how big the dog, he's been of the lead since about 4 months, comes when he's called and doesn't know he's a little dog. Milo is 6months.


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## mitsi (Feb 1, 2012)

articles like this make me angry, there is usually a reason and the reason is more often than not down to the owners, ive had staffies i the past, none have been aggressive, all been great around kids, other animals etc, the worst dogs ive known for being bitey is the jack russells, I would ever trust any animal around small children, mainly because small/young children dont know how to act and what to do and what not to do around an animal, this in return can change the behaviour of a animal even if its for a split second. 
As i say ive had staffies and know lots of people with staffies and they are the nicest, calmest, dogs you could wish to meet. Yes you will get the odd aggressive one, just like any other dog out there, doesnt mean they are all like that.


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## farnell182 (Jan 26, 2009)

annsimpson1 said:


> I'm sorry but I have a very small dog and the only type of dog that has shown anything other than freindly interest are the staffy types and obvious hunting breeds such as greyhounds. Everyone else has put up with him jumping around them , he's only a pup, and at the worst have given him the effect of a 'clip round the ear' with a paw to say enough is enough, the ones I've mentioned have looked like they'd eat him given the chance. I know its down to the owners as to how thier dogs behave but you can't remove what is an instinct in breeds bred to hunt or defend/attack. Just out of interest what was the staff orriginally bred for? did it have a purpose or job. My dog is a chihuahua/papillon and I know they can be yappy/nippy but I've treated mine as any other dog and he's as bold as brass, will say hello to all and isn't frightened of how big the dog, he's been of the lead since about 4 months, comes when he's called and doesn't know he's a little dog. Milo is 6months.


With all due respect..the original post was about a dog attacking a toddler..if a staffy isnt socialised properly as a puppy theyre not the best with other animals but thats not to say they cant be!!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I have not met a staffy around here that I have ever had an issue with with regards to dog aggression, as above other types of terrier yes, but not staffies.



annsimpson1 said:


> Just out of interest what was the staff orriginally bred for? did it have a purpose or job.


They were originally combined from bull dogs (which were used against bulls, for entertainment and apparently making the meat better) and terriers (which are typically for hunting vermin) to give more "gameness" than the pure bulldogs.

They were bred to give entertainment fighting each other and other animals. 

However they were also bred to then be extremely placid towards humans without fault. Humans had to be able to literally drag their bloody bodies off the ground, and tend to their wounds without any anaesthetic without even a hint the dog may bite them to stop the pain.

All these bull/terrier based breeds (staffies/pitbulls etc) were then taken home to live with the family, often referred to as Nanny dogs. Like with their owners they would take absolutely anything a human dished out even a child without a single thought in their head of doing anything but trying to escape or accepting it. 

So in short yes, genetically I believe they are more prone to dog on dog aggression. Those that have not been well brought up to counteract that and socialised well around dogs are a risk to your dog (though a dog as small as yours all terriers, which may view it as prey should be something you are wary of it is after all the terrier half of the staffy that gives that character trait) 

However when it comes to children a true staffy, rather than a bits and pieces mongrel most people claim are staffies now, are the last dog to attack a human. When my sister wanted a dog for around her children I thought for not one second before telling her to get a true Staffordshire Bull Terrier.


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

The problem is staffies is they're being flogged left, right & centre for next to nothing, so inevitably they end up in the wrong hands. I work a couple of days a week for a pet shop and I'd go as far to say that around 70% of the dogs that come in with their owners are staffies, and to be perfectly honest, I would be shocked if the majority of the owners knew how to tie their own shoelaces, never mind train an animal. 

ALL dogs have the potential to do harm. I have a Jack Russell Terrier and she's very much a people-dog. She's brilliant with my small animals which include everything in my sig and although I obviously wouldn't leave her unattended with them, she's demonstrated that she's not out to cause harm. That being said, when it comes to children, regardless of how well you 'know your dog', they should NEVER be left alone together. It only takes one little thing to set a dog off, if the child tugs an ear too hard or accidentally hurts the dog. 

It irritates me beyond belief that rather than blame the owner, who put the dog in a position in the first place to do damage to a small child, people are quick to point the finger at an entire breed. Absolutely ridiculous!
:censor:


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

similar to what has been said the problem seems to be that there are so many staffs and staff crosses that its far more likely that they are involved in incidents that make the papers simply because of the numbers not the breed. I don't see how you'll ever stop them being seen as a status symbol for many even on the markets there are stalls that only sell big strong studded harnesses, collars, muzzles and leads all designed for that type of dog. Look through sites such as gumtree and there are far more staffs then any other dog, I hope the chip law might make it easier at least to identify the owners but untill people stop breeding so many or are more carefull who buys them there will always be this problem. To me people are stupid to leave any dog with a young child without supervision, there's only so much pulling and poking any animal will put up with.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

I would say apart from the wrong people getting Staffs as status dogs it's also down to "breeding" (for want of better expression in some cases). We have 2 extremes in the area:
1 pedigree bitch (beautiful girl, slender and lovely defined features, not the fat, short flounders you often see). She's as daft as a brush, never even barks, lets her owners rats climb all over her and is just overall super friendly.
On the other hand there's a Staff-Mix who, across the border would be classified as Pitbull type. Unfortunately, although being a beautiful dog has got major aggression issues with any living being, from human to dog. The owner must have connections in higher places, as he has been reported for his dog attacking other dogs and people, but nothing is being done, he's not even muzzled. I don't know the owner personally, he seems friendly enough, but heard rumours about him letting his dog hunt and kill (without license of course).


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

annsimpson1 said:


> similar to what has been said the problem seems to be that there are so many staffs and staff crosses that its far more likely that they are involved in incidents that make the papers simply because of the numbers not the breed. I don't see how you'll ever stop them being seen as a status symbol for many even on the markets there are stalls that only sell big strong studded harnesses, collars, muzzles and leads all designed for that type of dog. _*Look through sites such as gumtree and there are far more staffs then any other dog*_, I hope the chip law might make it easier at least to identify the owners but untill people stop breeding so many or are more carefull who buys them there will always be this problem. To me people are stupid to leave any dog with a young child without supervision, there's only so much pulling and poking any animal will put up with.


Same with rescues. I've been browsing rescue sites recently just through interest and it's just filled with Staffies and Staffie X. My OH's dad quite recently rehomed a Staffie x Boxer puppy, she has the face of a staffie but the structure and size of a boxer, she's a gorgeous, bouncy thing! They often childmind grandchildren, etc, and recieved some horrendous comments from family members regarding their new choice of dog (they previously used to keep collie-types). Makes my blood boil how people see her as some sort of killing machine, without even getting to know her. They're working hard to train her and she's generally very well behaved, with the occasional naughty streak you could expect in any puppy.


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## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

The only dog I've ever been bitten by was a sodding Lhasa apso.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Breed is moot when it comes to babies/todlers. I wouldn't trust ANY dog alone with a baby or small todler. Its just asking for trouble! At the end of the day a dog is still a 'dumb animal' no matter how domesticated it may be there are still instincts, attitudes, moods and personalities that they cannot convey or express and no matter what anyone says, humans cannot necessarily read them correctly.


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## SpiritSerpents (Mar 20, 2011)

The two breeds I encounter most at my job are chihuahuas and pit-bull types. 

I would much rather deal with the pits than the chis. The vast majority of the pits are super duper friendly and loving dogs. A large portion are dog reactive, yes. But they were bred for that for a long time. My last dog was an english shepherd/cattle dog and HE was highly dog reactive despite tons of dog socialisation as well. To the poster above, my Kumo would have eaten your papillon if it jumped on him. 

It boils down to: No matter how much you trust a dog, do NOT leave a child unattended with it.


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## mscongeniality (Apr 15, 2008)

Controversially I used to leave my dog with my child all the time. When she was outside playing on the shared veranda I'd send the dog with her. I was always a bit paranoid to take my eyes off her even though she was just outside my front door but I knew that little dog would defend my daughter with her last breath. 
People go on about dogs being dangerous around children etc. Between 1992 and 2002 in the UK around 90 children were killed - by their parents. Statistically a child has a far higher risk of being killed by their parents than their dog.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

mscongeniality said:


> Controversially I used to leave my dog with my child all the time. When she was outside playing on the shared veranda I'd send the dog with her. I was always a bit paranoid to take my eyes off her even though she was just outside my front door but I knew that little dog would defend my daughter with her last breath.
> People go on about dogs being dangerous around children etc. Between 1992 and 2002 in the UK around 90 children were killed - by their parents. Statistically a child has a far higher risk of being killed by their parents than their dog.


I think you stats on children killed by parents are incorrect. In just England and Wales a child is killed by another human every 7 DAYS, of this the child will be killed by a parent/primary guardian every 10 Days, that is approx 36 a year just for England and Wales. 

So the rate for the whole of the UK is far far higher than 90 in 10 years I am afraid.


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## mscongeniality (Apr 15, 2008)

That's scary. I must have misread when I looked it up. I knew it was far higher than the incidence of dogs killing children but no idea it was that high.


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

I suppose we will all defend the pets that we have regardless of their breed and often either choose to ignore or don't see through love any faults they may have. Its much the same as how we see our children to others they maybe right little/big pests but to us they can do nothing wrong, we do have to stand back sometimes and look at our animals/children etc thorugh other's eyes I suppose in that case my young pup when he goes to say hello to all the other dogs could be seen as a nuisance. However all the people I've met in the park have been only to pleased to say hello and most of the dogs as well, I won't keep him on a lead and I suppose as he gets older he'll calm down at the moment he just wants to run. I was told to treat him as a big/normal dog and thats what I do there's not a bit of nastiness/snappy in him and I'm sure its because he's always been encouraged to say hello to others both human and dog. He will always come back to me after he's said hello and I also assumed that any other dog could tell by his body language that he's trying to be freindly therefore any dog that reacted non freindly wouldn't be very nice, and if it was prone to not liking other dogs should be wearing a muzzle.


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## AB's (Oct 3, 2009)

annsimpson1 said:


> I suppose we will all defend the pets that we have regardless of their breed and often either choose to ignore or don't see through love any faults they may have. Its much the same as how we see our children to others they maybe right little/big pests but to us they can do nothing wrong, we do have to stand back sometimes and look at our animals/children etc thorugh other's eyes I suppose in that case my young pup when he goes to say hello to all the other dogs could be seen as a nuisance. However all the people I've met in the park have been only to pleased to say hello and most of the dogs as well, I won't keep him on a lead and I suppose as he gets older he'll calm down at the moment he just wants to run. I was told to treat him as a big/normal dog and thats what I do there's not a bit of nastiness/snappy in him and I'm sure its because he's always been encouraged to say hello to others both human and dog. He will always come back to me after he's said hello and I also assumed that any other dog could tell by his body language that he's trying to be freindly therefore any dog that reacted non freindly wouldn't be very nice, and if it was prone to not liking other dogs should be wearing a muzzle.


Why should a dog reactive dog wear a muzzle? Agreed it should be on a lead but we have a responsibility to not let our dogs run over to every other dog in the park. A dog can be on a lead for various reasons, aggression, health and training to name just a few. If you choose to not put fido on a lead and allow him to approach other dogs (especially ones on lead) then its your own fault if something happens. Your dog has to be under control and has no given right to just run up to every other dog in the park regardless of its motivation.

Most dog reactive breeds are same sex dominance and a completely natural behaviour which owners should understand and react to accordingly. My American Bulldog is an absolute gent with puppies and bitches but will fight males all day every day so he's on a lead. My Rottie bitch will play with everything all day everyday but I ask other dog owners if its ok for her to play or be introduced.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Assumptions are dangerous things. Personally I would never expect my dogs to be able to just wander up to another dog without the other owner's go-ahead, whether their intentions were innocent or not. You never know how the other dog is going to react and you've not got any chance of breaking up a fight if your dog's halfway across the field because they decided to pootle off. 
Our 2 are on leads 99% of the time because they are sods for it and it'd only be a matter of time before they said hello to the wrong dog who didn't appreciate their friendliness.


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## AB's (Oct 3, 2009)

Ophexis said:


> Assumptions are dangerous things. Personally I would never expect my dogs to be able to just wander up to another dog without the other owner's go-ahead, whether their intentions were innocent or not. You never know how the other dog is going to react and you've not got any chance of breaking up a fight if your dog's halfway across the field because they decided to pootle off.


As previously said, my American Bulldog is same sex dominant and the amount of people who let there dogs wander over without any consideration to what my dog is doing whilst on his lead is astounding. I ask them to call their dog back due to mine not interacting well with males and when they call fido he ignores them. If your dog doesn't have recall in the presence of other dogs you shouldn't have it off the lead. Train your dog properly and ask other owners before allowing interactions.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

AB's said:


> As previously said, my American Bulldog is same sex dominant and the amount of people who let there dogs wander over without any consideration to what my dog is doing whilst on his lead is astounding. I ask them to call their dog back due to mine not interacting well with males and when they call fido he ignores them. If your dog doesn't have recall in the presence of other dogs you shouldn't have it off the lead. Train your dog properly and ask other owners before allowing interactions.


One of ours is a rescue who has a problem with big dogs and in-your-face puppies... he won't hold back if he feels threatened. He's also uncomfortable in the presence of children and has some serious 'jealousy' issues going on. In short, he's unstable. If you're halfway across the field and your dog is coming over to say hello I can't very much let you know that before he starts freaking out. Thankfully he's a little thing so keeping him controlled isn't as difficult as, say, a labrador in 'kill mode'.
The other one's just 'special'. We are convinced she's autistic or something as she has absolutely no social etiquette whatsoever. She's 3 this year and still doesn't understand that most dogs don't like being used as springboards, nor do a lot want to say hi to her just because she wants to say hi to them. For that reason, she's on a lead unless the field is empty or it's a dog we are familiar with.


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## AB's (Oct 3, 2009)

Ophexis said:


> One of ours is a rescue who has a problem with big dogs and in-your-face puppies... he won't hold back if he feels threatened. He's also uncomfortable in the presence of children and has some serious 'jealousy' issues going on. In short, he's unstable. If you're halfway across the field and your dog is coming over to say hello I can't very much let you know that before he starts freaking out. Thankfully he's a little thing so keeping him controlled isn't as difficult as, say, a labrador in 'kill mode'.


Which is exactly why people shouldn't allow there dogs to free roam over to any other dogs without speaking to the owner first, in my opinion it basic responsible dog ownership.


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## mscongeniality (Apr 15, 2008)

Used to drive me nuts other people's dogs running up. My dog wouldn't have gone up and attacked another dog but she did not appreciate a strange dog running up to me. She was OK with young puppies. She seemed to know they meant no harm. I used to get really annoyed when my dog was by my side and some unknown dog would be tearing towards me with its owner saying "it's alright, he's harmless". My response invariably being "she's not". Cue my dog standing between their dog and me, doing her very best werewolf impersonation. They then look at me like I've done something wrong when my dog has not left my side. 
I was very glad of that protective streak one night when I had sent a cab to collect my daughter from my parents' house. There is a scarcely used car park out back and a fenced off shared garden area which is not well lit. The cab pulled up. I went downstairs to pay them, my dog beside me. I was headed towards the cab when my dog ran off barking and snarling. There was a man hiding round the dark corner of the garden area. Neither my daughter nor I saw him. My dog drove him out, snapping at him whenever he took a step that was not towards the gate. He got in to a car and drove off at speed. He did not and does not live here and I cannot come up with any innocent motives for hiding in a dark corner of a garden which is not yours in the middle of the night. I suspect I owe that little dog of mine more than I know. 
I miss her.


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## BMo1979 (Feb 13, 2012)

Please don't let your pup run up to other dogs without owners' permission. Not only is it very inconsiderate but also potentially dangerous for your pup and it would be mainly your fault if harm came to him. 
There might be various reasons for owners not allowing on lead contact, the main one probably being meeting on a lead is not natural and doesn't give the dog(s) enough space.
My reasons apart from this are that Trigger is dominant towards other un-neutered males and is apprehensive of "gobby" small dogs. Due to constant bad experiences with small white dogs, they especially are a red cloth. He also really likes his personal space and doesn't appreciate it to be invaded without his permission (not even Storm is allowed to). That doesn't make him unsociable though, it's normal for a lot of dogs. He doesn't attack and I would never let it get to the point where he feels the need to, but in these days even a vocal telling off seems to be too much for some dog owners, lol.
Storm on the other hand is absolutely friendly towards other dogs, but she needs to learn that during our walks our "pack" (i.e. whatever human is walking her) is more important than other dogs. But she also has a very dominant posture (hackles, high head and curled up tail) when she first meets dogs she doesn't know. I think this could get her into trouble if she meets a dog with similar dominant attitude (although she seems to know which dogs she can do it with).
Now with that in mind, can you imagine my annoyance when some random dog (don't care if it's a puppy, adult or old dog) comes running up and undermines all the effort we have put in?


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## annsimpson1 (Mar 23, 2008)

well I'm sorry if you don't like it, my park is a small local park where every other dog is off the lead and I'm certainly not going to keep mine on a lead when all the others are free. We have gotten to know most of the regulars and we all allow the dogs to run and play I and the other local owners do a couple of circuits of the path around the park and its a nice place to meet, chat and sit down. My dog comes back when he's called which is more than some do and I feel the opposite that if you have an unsociable animal then you should find a less occupied place to walk it. The right to freedom works both ways.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

annsimpson1 said:


> well I'm sorry if you don't like it, my park is a small local park where every other dog is off the lead and I'm certainly not going to keep mine on a lead when all the others are free. We have gotten to know most of the regulars and we all allow the dogs to run and play I and the other local owners do a couple of circuits of the path around the park and its a nice place to meet, chat and sit down. My dog comes back when he's called which is more than some do and I feel the opposite that if you have an unsociable animal then you should find a less occupied place to walk it. The right to freedom works both ways.


I have to admit to walking a middle ground here. With both dogs off lead then as long as the dog can be recalled if the owner yelled out BEFORE it reached their dog or can be stopped from going to another dog you do not like the "feel" of (not just looks of the dog, but the way they walk and the subtle clues the owner has that they feel anxious their dog will react) then all is good in my view. Personally my rule is My dogs do not and will not greet any dogs on a lead (unless a close friend, flexi leads are a pain IMO as sometimes I cannot see the dog is on a lead) However if your dog is off lead it should be capable of being social at least for a quick sniff. Equally I would not be chuffed with a dog approaching my on lead dogs, but not really make a thing of it. TBH here I cannot recall it really happening. A lot of people seem to want their on lead dog to meet my on lead dog when walking in town or somewhere. I normally strike up a conversation at a distance longer than the length of just one of the leads, where both dogs would have had to walk forward for them to meet, then if they choose to they can, if only one chooses to then they could not.

I also think that dogs that will attempt to do serious harm to another dog should be muzzled, even if on lead. The punishment of death or serious injury, to a dog whose only real sin is having an owner that cannot train it properly, is too high.

I think there is a lot of ground in knowing what is acceptable for certain areas, I too live somewhere where the norm is that dogs meet each other. They are afterall social creatures. There are places people walk where this is not the norm, normally the smaller local parks, but generally dogs off lead are free to meet other dogs off lead. I do think if you have a dog reactive dog you should feel limited as to where you can go, for example some woods and fields here have many many blind corners and you could not reasonably expect other dog owners to see you coming with your onlead reactive dog, so really would be in the wrong in my opinion to think it right to be there. Sometimes dogs with issues will be restrictive, that is why people put the effort they do into making dogs well balanced and socialising. 

There is a wide held attitude that the person keeping their dog on a lead is the one always in the right though. My view would be closer to well on one hand you cannot teach your dog to come back every time, on the other I cannot teach my dog trust me enough to keep other dogs away and not to bite approaching dogs, so really failure on both sides. Those Kong pet correctors are only noisy air, there is nothing wrong with carrying one of those, scaring off approaching dogs and teaching your dog you will control dogs from approaching it IMO.


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## AB's (Oct 3, 2009)

annsimpson1 said:


> well I'm sorry if you don't like it, my park is a small local park where every other dog is off the lead and I'm certainly not going to keep mine on a lead when all the others are free. We have gotten to know most of the regulars and we all allow the dogs to run and play I and the other local owners do a couple of circuits of the path around the park and its a nice place to meet, chat and sit down. My dog comes back when he's called which is more than some do and I feel the opposite that if you have an unsociable animal then you should find a less occupied place to walk it. The right to freedom works both ways.


Which is why local authorities provide dog parks where people can go for off lead exercise without fear or hesitation about the other dogs. I'd would be extremely inappropriate for any owner to take a reactive dog to a off lead exercise park. Local parks etc... Then its your responsibility to control your dog and only allow it to greet other dogs with mutal owners consent.


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## kingkelly (May 14, 2012)

I always er on the side of caution with my dogs when I walk them if another dog appears they go on the lead if it is then made clear that there is no issues then they can go back off lead.

Even with this things can happen yesterday my 7 year old greyhound and my two others were let off the lead after two other dogs appeared and we made sure they could be let back off lead. My other two were playing with the others and my Greyhound being a sight hound saw one of the dogs running and thought it was going to chase him so panicked and turned only for the other dog to wallop straight into his leg. Luckily he ended up with a muscle injury and nothing more but it could have been awful.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

kingkelly said:


> I always er on the side of caution with my dogs when I walk them if another dog appears they go on the lead if it is then made clear that there is no issues then they can go back off lead.
> 
> Even with this things can happen yesterday my 7 year old greyhound and my two others were let off the lead after two other dogs appeared and we made sure they could be let back off lead. My other two were playing with the others and my Greyhound being a sight hound saw one of the dogs running and thought it was going to chase him so panicked and turned only for the other dog to wallop straight into his leg. Luckily he ended up with a muscle injury and nothing more but it could have been awful.


Unfortunately with some breeds the act of holding them back would normally then result in them not then being able to let them off with those same dogs again at that time.

At least to a number of German shepherds I have fostered the message to come back from another dog and go on lead is directly translated in the dogs mind as "those dogs are dangerous, they worry me (the human), do not let them near me"


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## AB's (Oct 3, 2009)

Kare said:


> Unfortunately with some breeds the act of holding them back would normally then result in them not then being able to let them off with those same dogs again at that time.
> 
> At least to a number of German shepherds I have fostered the message to come back from another dog and go on lead is directly translated in the dogs mind as "those dogs are dangerous, they worry me (the human), do not let them near me"


But even worse to let it go over and risk a fight... For me the issue isn't whether it's on a lead or not its whether the owner allows there dog to coming running over to greet my dogs without my consent. If its just the rottie it's not an issue as she's very friendly with all dogs but a dominant male going face to face with my American Bulldog will result in a fight. Neutered and sumissive males are not so much an issue.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

AB's said:


> But even worse to let it go over and risk a fight... For me the issue isn't whether it's on a lead or not its whether the owner allows there dog to coming running over to greet my dogs without my consent. If its just the rottie it's not an issue as she's very friendly with all dogs but a dominant male going face to face with my American Bulldog will result in a fight. Neutered and sumissive males are not so much an issue.


They are not the only two choices though are they! There are other options than putting your dog on a lead or allowing it to run up. 

Or at least there should be if your dog is trained.


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## ChazzieJo (Jun 14, 2012)

I don't think correct training is always the issue, I strongly believe it can boil down to the personality of the dog, too.

Up until recently we had a family Border Terrier who was the loveliest thing as a pup, she was well socialised, met other dogs regularly, etc. Then suddenly once she'd reached maturity it was a whole different matte. She couldn't be trusted with _strange _dogs anymore, which made finding places to walk her very difficult. 

I also know of many cases also of dogs who have been attacked by a strange dog, therefore hold the mentality that all are suddenly a threat, despite previously being absolutely fine. 

Some dogs are also far more protective of their owners than others. I know my girl is far more protective of me than she is of my OH, therefore she reacts very differently when walked by either one of us.

If you're going to let your dog off the lead to run around and free roam, only do it in busier areas if you feel confident that the dog is going to listen to you, if somebody keeps their dog on the lead, by their side, they're not to blame for the damage that could potentially be caused - should your dog decide to approach them.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

ChazzieJo said:


> I don't think correct training is always the issue, I strongly believe it can boil down to the personality of the dog, too.
> 
> Up until recently we had a family Border Terrier who was the loveliest thing as a pup, she was well socialised, met other dogs regularly, etc. Then suddenly once she'd reached maturity it was a whole different matte. She couldn't be trusted with _strange _dogs anymore, which made finding places to walk her very difficult.
> 
> ...


I agree with this... 
Our late Springer was socialised young and never had any problems with other dogs, and had perfect recall - until he got attacked by a boxer at a few years old and he became iffy. He would still be very patient with puppies and small dogs as he knew they couldn't hurt him and meant no harm, but he appreciated 'polite' dogs i.e. the ones that walked up to him nicely, let them do the whole butt-sniffing thing without being up in his face. He did permanently become a boxer racist though... there wasn't one he ever liked from that point on - instant offensive if he spotted one. So we had to make sure we saw any boxers before he did so he could go back on the lead until they were out of his perceived 'danger range'.
Some of them just turn with age. I know a little cross who was fine up until the age of about 7 and then she decided friends were unnecessary hassle. Some just are very defensive if on a lead but good as gold off-lead. 

And you can never be 100% positive on every dog, all the time; even your own. This is an assumption I'm sure we are all guilty of at some point... we assume since the dog's been fine in a certain situation before, they will be again. We assumed Gizmo wouldn't mind being brushed because his previous owner had brushed him before... we assumed wrong and we almost got our fingers chewed off. The same goes for dogs and kids (since we seem to have veered off topic) ... if the dog's been fine in the presence of children before, don't become complacent and assume that they always will be. You could have the most well-behaved, placid dog on the planet, but they may still use their teeth if Junior catches them on a bad day.


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