# Rabbit breeds.



## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

I've been contemplating the idea of getting another rabbit. It's only in the early stages yet as the loss of my old boy is still quite raw. 
However I was 5 when we got my rabbit, he was quite large, the same size as my dog actually (JRTx) and had stuck up ears. I'd asked a few people and they just called him a mongrel, which is fine but I'd like an actual breed that I could look up and fit into what I want.

Anyway, the checklist

-Quite large. I don't like 'mini' rabbits, but I don't want giant sized either.
-Likes human company. Happy to be handled and be out. Barney always hated people invading his space. I appreciate that some may require 'taming' as such.
-Ok to be left for a day. There'll be one day a week I can't get it out of it's hutch, though there will be someone to feed, water and check it over. Just can't be allowed out.

Right, it'll be kept in a two tier hutch, similar to this








and will have a run attached to it, which it'll be allowed into in the day time. Then every day (bar the one I mentioned before) it'll be allowed to hop round the back yard whilst I give it's hutch a quick tidy and obviously people interaction.

I know thats a bit all over the place, but anyone have any breeds to suggest, and sites with info on?
Thanks guys


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> I've been contemplating the idea of getting another rabbit. It's only in the early stages yet as the loss of my old boy is still quite raw.
> However I was 5 when we got my rabbit, he was quite large, the same size as my dog actually (JRTx) and had stuck up ears. I'd asked a few people and they just called him a mongrel, which is fine but I'd like an actual breed that I could look up and fit into what I want.
> 
> Anyway, the checklist
> ...


 
I like English or dutch rabbits, they are always so friendly but only medium sized. Why not get 2 so they have each other for company:2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sussex Gold!!!

They're a lovely reddish colour - big rabbit, but not as big as a continental. They have lovely big sticky up ears and if you put the work in when they are young they can make excellent pets.

This is Kupo, my second rabbit the day I brought her home at 8 weeks. Sorry for crap quality, but it's a photograph of an an old photograph.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Standard Rex. They are generally great tempered rabbits, & they come in black, blue, red, castor, dalmation, ermine, etc. They are a medium sized rabbit, & that fur is to die for! There is a local breeder & exhibitor of them too, so I could put you in touch with him if you wanted.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> I like English or dutch rabbits, they are always so friendly but only medium sized. Why not get 2 so they have each other for company:2thumb:


Now theres an idea :whistling2:



feorag said:


> Sussex Gold!!!
> 
> They're a lovely reddish colour - big rabbit, but not as big as a continental. They have lovely big sticky up ears and if you put the work in when they are young they can make excellent pets.
> 
> ...


Awww :gasp: She's gorgeous :flrt:



Zoo-Man said:


> Standard Rex. They are generally great tempered rabbits, & they come in black, blue, red, castor, dalmation, ermine, etc. They are a medium sized rabbit, & that fur is to die for! There is a local breeder & exhibitor of them too, so I could put you in touch with him if you wanted.


ahh I'll look into them. Like I said, may be a while as Barney is still quite raw. But I'd appreciate his details for when I'm ready, if you wouldn't mind?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> Sussex Gold!!!
> 
> They're a lovely reddish colour - big rabbit, but not as big as a continental. They have lovely big sticky up ears and if you put the work in when they are young they can make excellent pets.
> 
> ...


 

Ive never even heard of this pretty breed:gasp: Thriantas(sp) are quite similar and they make great pets too. 

Rex fur is gorgeous:flrt:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

cloggers said:


> Now theres an idea :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll dig it out for you hun


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Ive never even heard of this pretty breed:gasp: Thriantas(sp) are quite similar and they make great pets too.
> 
> Rex fur is gorgeous:flrt:


I was introduced to a young trainee doctor by my vet nurse friend when my dwarf cashmere lop died. She had bred and shown Polish Dwarfs for years. Then she went to the USA and discovered how the Americans kept their rabbits indoors and was so impressed with that she came home and founded the British Houserabbit Society.

She bought Jaffa, a Sussex Gold, and kept him as a house rabbit. My friend said to go and meet her and Jaffa and see if I like the breed and I was smitten. Actually it was like going to visit someone with a cat, he was so friendly and relaxed and well behaved in his house. She was asked by Harrods to take him down to their pet department for a weekend and she said he behaved incredibly, all the children loved him and he was fussed and petted all weekend, taking it all in his stride. 

After we lost Kupo I decided I would start rescuing rather than buying new kits and so I phoned Linda and asked her if she knew of a rabbit in need of a home and she brought me Gimpy back up from his breeders in London. He was another Sussex, but he had splay legs, so not a good lifespan prospect and Linda knew that I would keep him in the house and in the summer he would go into a hutch which we carpeted rather than sawdusted to give him some purchase. He only lived until he was about 8 months old, but he had a good life. Here he is with Harry on guard duty! :roll:










Actually the woman who bred Kupo also bred Thuringers, which I'd never seen or heard of up to that point (this is about 18 years ago!) and I thought they were stunning rabbits - nearly wished I'd bought one of them instead! :blush:

Chloe I would suggest that you do get 2 rabbits, as Shell said, because they are a community animal and they will be great company for each other and that would remove any guilt about the days that you cannot be there with them.


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## Cleo27 (Jan 9, 2010)

Sorry for the hijack but I am astonished to find I think I had a Thuringer rabbit. My old bun, Buttercup is exactly like these rabbits - I just Googled them because I was curious to find out what they were like, and I can't beleive it, lol! x


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

I'd get two tbh.  And I'd go for a small breed if that's the hutch you are using. I have 2 Mini Lops and they are lovely. Have you considered getting some from a rescue?


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> Chloe I would suggest that you do get 2 rabbits, as Shell said, because they are a community animal and they will be great company for each other and that would remove any guilt about the days that you cannot be there with them.


I'll look at two then. I think Barney didn't cohere to the norm. He hated company of any kind.



SnickersTheFirst said:


> I'd get two tbh.  And I'd go for a small breed if that's the hutch you are using. I have 2 Mini Lops and they are lovely. Have you considered getting some from a rescue?


I hadn't but I certainly would. That hutch is only an idea, and would have a run attached to it. Would you say it's too small for a large-ish rabbit?


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

Ones from rescues are usually neutered and bonded into pairs too so would be ideal. 

It's hard to tell from the picture but I'd say it's only okay for smaller breeds. Do you have the dimensions in feet of which the hutch/run will be?

These are my bunnies, and their house:

















I know you said you don't like 'Mini' rabbits but they are sweet.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I think 90% of the population would be surprised how large rabbits from breeders are, I have a mini lop, a mini rex and a nethiexlionhead and only the latter would i say was anything close to a smaller size than what I would say a wild rabbit is.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Cleo27 said:


> Sorry for the hijack but I am astonished to find I think I had a Thuringer rabbit. My old bun, Buttercup is exactly like these rabbits - I just Googled them because I was curious to find out what they were like, and I can't beleive it, lol! x


I very much doubt it would of been a Thuringer, they are very rare & not many people breed them (especially not in Scotland). Do you have some pics you can post up?




Kare said:


> I think 90% of the population would be surprised how large rabbits from breeders are, I have a mini lop, a mini rex and a nethiexlionhead and only the latter would i say was anything close to a smaller size than what I would say a wild rabbit is.



Then your Mini Lop isn't a Mini Lop :whistling2:, i can assure you that a true Mini Lop is very much smaller than a wild rabbit :2thumb:. I still have one here who is within the breed standard & is a proper Mini Lop (no Dwarf Lop in him).


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

Pure Mini Lops are surprisingly big, Alfie (black) is from a breeder and he is alot larger than Bubbles (orange & white) from a rescue.

Most breeder animals are alot larger than those from rescues or pet shops.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

cloggers said:


> I'll look at two then. I think Barney didn't cohere to the norm. He hated company of any kind.


Was he neutered, as that would make a difference.

I must admit, as I said, after Solo my dwarf cashmere lop I only took in rescued rabbits. After Gimpy came Orwell and British Giant - all of which i got through Linda, but then she qualified as a doctor and moved away. So after Orwell came Basil a Havana Rex whose owner was moving to the very north of Scotland and was worried the weather might be too cold for him and after Basil I went to "Bunny Burrow" an organised rabbit rescue in Richmond, north Yorkshire and got to dwarf lops a neutered male and female and they were always together.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> Pure Mini Lops are surprisingly big, Alfie (black) is from a breeder and he is alot larger than Bubbles (orange & white) from a rescue.
> 
> Most breeder animals are alot larger than those from rescues or pet shops.



The Orange Butterfly in the pic is a Mini Lop & the Black Otter is a Dwarf Lop :2thumb:. Mini Lops from show breeders are small, they have to be bred to a breed standard & adults can't be more than 3lb 8oz (ideally they should be 3lb 4oz). Here's the breed standard for them..... http://www.thebrc.org/standards/L8-Lop%20Miniature.pdf Mini Lops from pet shops/rescues are far bigger as they were often bred by pet breeders who aren't breeding to the standard. Also some lines of Mini Lops have Dwarf Lop in them (from when the Mini Cashmere Lop was being created some 5-6 years ago). My Mini Lop foundation stock came from top breeders & was well within the weights for the standard :2thumb:. I could go out & weigh my 5 year old Buck & i can tell you now he's within the weights in the standard :Na_Na_Na_Na:.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

corny girl said:


> The Orange Butterfly in the pic is a Mini Lop & the Black Otter is a Dwarf Lop :2thumb:. Mini Lops from show breeders are small, they have to be bred to a breed standard & adults can't be more than 3lb 8oz (ideally they should be 3lb 4oz). Here's the breed standard for them..... http://www.thebrc.org/standards/L8-Lop%20Miniature.pdf Mini Lops from pet shops/rescues are far bigger as they were often bred pet breeders who aren't breeding to the standard. Also some lines of Mini Lops have Dwarf Lop in them (from when the Mini Cashmere Lop was being created some 5-6 years ago). My Mini Lop foundation stock came from top breeders & was well within the weights for the standard :2thumb:. I could go out & weigh my 5 year old Buck & i can tell you now he's within the weights in the standard :Na_Na_Na_Na:.


I'm afraid you're wrong, he has a pedigree and everything, he is a Mini Lop. He has the typical round head shape and body shape. Breeders breed for all sorts of reasons, not just to improve show stock, but to improve temperament or health.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> I'm afraid you're wrong, he has a pedigree and everything, he is a Mini Lop. He has the typical round head shape and body shape.



Well excuse me, i bred & showed Mini Lops for quite a few years. I also judged rabbits so i don't think i am wrong. I'm telling you now the Black Otter in the pic is a Dwarf Lop, it's type is totally different to the Orange Butterfly which IS a Mini Lop. Like i said some lines have Dwarf Lop in them so maybe the breeder you got him from has one of these lines as he IS a Dwarf Lop not a Mini, you can get both in a litter from these lines (Pedigree's aren't worth the paper they are written on i'm afraid, anyone can make up any old s:censor:t on them as there is no way to prove them). The proof of the pudding is on the show table, always buy from a breeder who is consistantly winning as you know then what you are buying.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

corny girl said:


> Well excuse me, i bred & showed Mini Lops for quite a few years. I also judged rabbits so i don't think i am wrong. I'm telling you now the Black Otter in the pic is a Dwarf Lop, it's type is totally different to the Orange Butterfly which IS a Mini Lop. Like i said some lines have Dwarf Lop in them so maybe the breeder you got him from has one of these lines as he IS a Dwarf Lop not a Mini, you can get both in a litter from these lines (Pedigree's aren't worth the paper they are written on i'm afraid, anyone can make up any old s:censor:t on them as there is no way to prove them). The proof of the pudding is on the show table, always buy from a breeder who is consistantly winning as you know then what you are buying.


Oh, you show rabbits so you're the expert, I'm so sorry. :2thumb:

Some people here are so rude, if you don't accept their opinion it's the end of the world. 

My Mum's on a rabbit forum as these are her rabbits and no-one else has ever denied the fact he's a Mini Lop. We've had him for 3 years and some of the people on that forum are also very experienced. I think I'll stick to what his pedigree says and what I've been told.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Well, I like Mini Lops, ...................... & I like Dwarf Lops............... but which one's best? Theres only one way to find out.......

*FIIIIIIIIGHT!!!*


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> Oh, you show rabbits so you're the expert, I'm so sorry. :2thumb:
> 
> Some people here are so rude, if you don't accept their opinion it's the end of the world.
> 
> My Mum's on a rabbit forum as these are her rabbits and no-one else has ever denied the fact he's a Mini Lop. We've had him for 3 years and some of the people on that forum are also very experienced. I think I'll stick to what his pedigree says and what I've been told.



Well you believe what you want to believe, like i said i could sit here now & make up a pedigree for a rabbit i didn't breed, it is only a bit of paper (that can look quite professional to a lay person like you), rabbits aren't registered like dogs & it has been proved in the past that pedigree "papers" are often forged by unscrupulous breeders & i use this term lightly. Yes i am a bit of an expert on rabbits (when you judge them you handle lots of different ones so see what is correct for the standard & what isn't), i bred them (many different breeds) for many, many years & won a fair bit with them. Probably handled far more rabbits than you can ever imagine.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Zoo-Man said:


> Well, I like Mini Lops, ...................... & I like Dwarf Lops............... but which one's best? Theres only one way to find out.......
> 
> *FIIIIIIIIGHT!!!*



Dwarf Lops are better for children as they are easier to handle, Mini's can be a bit skittish :2thumb:.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

my favourite that i've owned was a chinchilla and a smoke pearl, the chinchilla was huge but she was the bestest bunny i've ever had, and she lived until she was 13!! the oldest bunny i've ever had. The smoke pearl was bought from a breeder i knew, she was very tempermental and had a proper nasty streak but she was nice when she wanted to be, she was a medium size as well.


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

If that hutch is the summer lodge from PAH i recommend you avoid it like the plague. I have one (now much modified :devil the roof bows when it rains, mould grows on the inside as the walls are thin, the base lets water in too. My rabbits come indoors in the winter and in very bad weather. There is a slightly more expensive hutch which is similar but i don't know if its any good. I know you said it was just an idea but thought i warn you any way. We attatched the run to the side by cutting a hole so its really easy to get to the hutch to clean it which works well.

I would definately get 2 rabbits and from a rescue ideally as ive read something around 30,000 rabbits go into rescue each year :gasp: Try Rabbit Rehome - Adopt an unwanted bunny from a rescue centre as they have rabbits all around the country and you'll probably find a pure breed.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> Was he neutered, as that would make a difference.


He wasn't no actually, only found out he had boy bits when he was 7 :lol2: 
Infact he never saw a vet in his life, he was never ill :blush: Though I appreciate things have changed.



samurai said:


> If that hutch is the summer lodge from PAH i recommend you avoid it like the plague. I have one (now much modified :devil the roof bows when it rains, mould grows on the inside as the walls are thin, the base lets water in too. My rabbits come indoors in the winter and in very bad weather. There is a slightly more expensive hutch which is similar but i don't know if its any good. I know you said it was just an idea but thought i warn you any way. We attatched the run to the side by cutting a hole so its really easy to get to the hutch to clean it which works well.
> 
> I would definately get 2 rabbits and from a rescue ideally as ive read something around 30,000 rabbits go into rescue each year :gasp: Try Rabbit Rehome - Adopt an unwanted bunny from a rescue centre as they have rabbits all around the country and you'll probably find a pure breed.


That was only an example of the sort of thing I was looking at, but thanks for the info. And thank you for the site : victory:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> Well, I like Mini Lops, ...................... & I like Dwarf Lops............... but which one's best? Theres only one way to find out.......
> 
> *FIIIIIIIIGHT!!!*


:roll2: PMSL! 


SnickersTheFirst said:


> Oh, you show rabbits so you're the expert, I'm so sorry. :2thumb:
> 
> Some people here are so rude, if you don't accept their opinion it's the end of the world.
> 
> My Mum's on a rabbit forum as these are her rabbits and no-one else has ever denied the fact he's a Mini Lop. We've had him for 3 years and some of the people on that forum are also very experienced. I think I'll stick to what his pedigree says and what I've been told.


I'm just sitting here wondering why you think someone is rude who is telling you what they think from their experience as a breeder and judge of that breed?

If I was telling someone who was showing a photo of a pedigree cat and telling everyone it was a particular breed and I knew it wasn't, from my own experience of breeding and showing pedigree cats, I would find it quite offensive to be told I was being rude.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

feorag said:


> If I was telling someone who was showing a photo of a pedigree cat and telling everyone it was a particular breed and I knew it wasn't, from my own experience of breeding and showing pedigree cats, I would find it quite offensive to be told I was being rude.


The way it was worded was rude in my opinion, I only posted the photos to show someone. They wasn't up for discussion and I'm not here to be basically told that a breeder has mugged me off by making up a pedigree form.

No-one else has ever questioned what breed he is, so all I'm saying is that I believe that he is a Mini Lop and it's rather big headed to come along and say that everyone else is wrong.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

feorag said:


> :roll2: PMSL!
> I'm just sitting here wondering why you think someone is rude who is telling you what they think from their experience as a breeder and judge of that breed?
> 
> If I was telling someone who was showing a photo of a pedigree cat and telling everyone it was a particular breed and I knew it wasn't, from my own experience of breeding and showing pedigree cats, I would find it quite offensive to be told I was being rude.



Thank you Eileen, found it quite offensive having my many years of experience being questioned, as i'm sure you would too (only with Cats). Rabbit's don't have pedigrees like Cats & Dogs do, pedigrees are something the breeder prints out & are worthless as many are forged to make the rabbit look good. But hey what do i know :whistling2:.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

corny girl said:


> Thank you Eileen, found it quite offensive having my many years of experience being questioned, as i'm sure you would too (only with Cats). Rabbit's don't have pedigrees like Cats & Dogs do, pedigrees are something the breeder prints out & are worthless as many are forged to make the rabbit look good. But hey what do i know :whistling2:.


I found it offensive of you to come along and dissmiss everyone else's opinion that has ever said Alfie is a Mini Lop (as well as mine and the breeder's) to think that you are correct. We obviously have very differing opinions and personalities. :whistling2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> The way it was worded was rude in my opinion, .


This is the problem with the written word. There is no inflection in the voice to judge whether someone intends to be rude or is simply correcting what they think is a misguided opinion from their level of experience. Maybe you were feeling a little defensive and so decided to take the comments as rude, but I have to be honest - I didn't think they were.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

feorag said:


> This is the problem with the written word. There is no inflection in the voice to judge whether someone intends to be rude or is simply correcting what they think is a misguided opinion from their level of experience. Maybe you were feeling a little defensive and so decided to take the comments as rude, but I have to be honest - I didn't think they were.


 
I agree, it's hard to determine tone over the internet so I guess it's just how an individual interprets it. That's the way I saw it though, so I guess it's just a misunderstanding. I'm really not here to argue or make enemies. :2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Trust me I've had a few altercations with people who've taken offence at something I've said when that was the last thing I meant.

And I've had a couple who decided that my questions of something I couldn't quite understand was me taking the p*ss. So I know how easy it is to be misunderstood on here.

As I said in my previous post as an addition, but which you hadn't read when you replied - trust me, once you've been on this forum for a while you'll know who the rude people are and who the helpful people are and I would put Corny Girl in the helpful group, not the rude ones.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> I agree, it's hard to determine tone over the internet so I guess it's just how an individual interprets it. That's the way I saw it though, so I guess it's just a misunderstanding. I'm really not here to argue or make enemies. :2thumb:


Sorry if you took my comments the wrong way. Like i said in a previous post many breeders put Dwarf Lops & Mini Lops together when creating the Mini Cashmere, as Cashmeres came from Dwarf Lops. I'll tell you a true story that i have heard from a few "old" breeders. For showing the rabbits wear a metal ring on one of their back legs, now breeders who had Dwarf Lops in their Mini lines would put a "K" size ring on one leg (Mini Lop ring) & a "C" size on the other leg (Dwarf Lop ring). They would then see what size the rabbit would get too & then cut the other ring off. I have no doubt you bought Alfie as a Mini Lop but in all intents & purposes he may have come from Mini Lops but have Dwarf Lop in the line so has grown to Dwarf Lop size which they can do even after a couple of generations (or an over size Mini as they are often sold as). I was just trying to point this out to you but you jumped down my throat saying i didn't know what i was talking about which then got my back up. I was just trying to say that i think he's a Dwarf Lop going on my experiences with Mini Lops. Your Orange Butterfly is most definately a Mini Lop, has the type & size of a Mini Lop (how i bred them & many other breeders breed them). Both are lovely rabbits & you obviously love them very much. I just hate seeing rabbits mis labelled as one breed when it is clear they are something else. I'm sure you bought him in good faith & too be honest when you don't know much about something when you buy it & are told it is xxx you tend to believe the seller :whistling2:. The rabbit forum you are on, can you tell what it is called please? If it is a pet type forum then many people would get Mini's & Dwarf's mixed up as they can look similar to the untrained eye :2thumb:, hence why nobody else has commented on him.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

hellooo....
i would recommend rex's. they have the most amazing coats. 

to add .......i have a dwarf mini lop and a dwarf mini rex. they are both tiny. they are around 6 months old and they really are small. most of the babies you will see for sale in pet shops are much bigger than my two. the rex has outgrown the lop but im sure the lop will catch up a bit. 

i saw thier parents and they were no larger than a young rabbit nor were any of the older siblings. youd think they were all baby rabbits. 

the regular dwarfs ive seen really are not very dwarf at all but my mini dwarfs are teenie lol.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

corny girl said:


> Sorry if you took my comments the wrong way. Like i said in a previous post many breeders put Dwarf Lops & Mini Lops together when creating the Mini Cashmere, as Cashmeres came from Dwarf Lops. I'll tell you a true story that i have heard from a few "old" breeders. For showing the rabbits wear a metal ring on one of their back legs, now breeders who had Dwarf Lops in their Mini lines would put a "K" size ring on one leg (Mini Lop ring) & a "C" size on the other leg (Dwarf Lop ring). They would then see what size the rabbit would get too & then cut the other ring off. I have no doubt you bought Alfie as a Mini Lop but in all intents & purposes he may have come from Mini Lops but have Dwarf Lop in the line so has grown to Dwarf Lop size which they can do even after a couple of generations (or an over size Mini as they are often sold as). I was just trying to point this out to you but you jumped down my throat saying i didn't know what i was talking about which then got my back up. I was just trying to say that i think he's a Dwarf Lop going on my experiences with Mini Lops. Your Orange Butterfly is most definately a Mini Lop, has the type & size of a Mini Lop (how i bred them & many other breeders breed them). Both are lovely rabbits & you obviously love them very much. I just hate seeing rabbits mis labelled as one breed when it is clear they are something else. I'm sure you bought him in good faith & too be honest when you don't know much about something when you buy it & are told it is xxx you tend to believe the seller :whistling2:. The rabbit forum you are on, can you tell what it is called please? If it is a pet type forum then many people would get Mini's & Dwarf's mixed up as they can look similar to the untrained eye :2thumb:, hence why nobody else has commented on him.


Sorry, it was all a misunderstanding. :blush:
I really expected Alfie to be the pure Mini Lop and Bubbles not to be as her 'breeder' gave her into the rescue because she didn't want her and she was tiny, bless her. I just assumed a good breeder wouldn't do that, but then again, I guess it doesn't mean they weren't breeding pure rabbits.

The forum is Rabbits United, it is more pet owners tbh but there are a few people that could be considered 'experts' as such.

As long as he's in good health, the breed doesn't really affect him.  He's always been really healthy apart from a hock break/dislocation due to an accident but that's been pinned. Whereas Bubbles has an odd head shape so has dentals all the time. Is this common of Mini Lops?


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

loverly looking lops you have there, is the black a fox rather than an otter though?

i`d vote they`re both mini, just different sizes, his head shape and shorter ears look mini to me.
in my experience dwarf lops have longer, wider ears.

you`ll get all different sizes and shapes in all breeds, and even breeding from 3 1/2 lb minis you get the odd `throwback`that looks mini and but is kinda half way between the breeds in size.

the dodgy breeders putting both c and k rings on and cutting one off later is unfiortunatly very true :bash:

i know of breeders that have crossed the two breeds to get new colours into their minis.
and the results arnt pretty - they got rabbits with dwarf lop bodies with tiny heads on.
not pretty or useful and a totaly waste of time and effort.

is it the butterfly that has dental problems and came from rescue?
it could have got thrown out for being too small to breed from?
plus if the bun has maloccusion its an inherited disease. rabbits with it shouldnt be bred from at all as its passed on through the generations.

its a falacy that rabbits with short round faces like lops and netherland dwarves are more prone to tooth problems.
i`ve kept both for donkeys years and do not have it in mine at all.
bad breeding = bad teeth

the invention of the internet has ruined the rabbit fancy imo.
too many tin-pot back yard breeders making a glittery website and laminating `pedigrees` for rabbits that bare no resembalance to the breed they are purported to be.


anyway back to the original question.

that hutch isnt really great, wont last very long at all.
if you want a tame friendly rabbit, get one that been used to handling from the off. if its skitty from before you get it it`ll be difficult to tame.
i`d get a single male, make far better pets than does or pairs imo.
i`d aviod rex. yes they are the size you want, but if you`regoing for a big run and lots of outside excercise, the very fine fur on their feet will be worn down to the bare skin in no time, and you`ll have lots of vet bills and problems and very sore, unhappy bunny.

have you looked at
foxes ( normal fur )
chinchillas
english ( the spotty ones )
californian
if i was getting a single pet i`d go for a german lop - nice chunky bun, medium size, laid back but a nice temperament with a tiny bit of lop nortiness, but not as loony as a mini.


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

I am a big fan of germans (mainly because i show and breed them ). they would make stunning pets they are like teddy bears are soft as anything and are not a bit skitty.

Home - Welsh Lop Circle have a look of the agouti german and say he is not lovely (usk agri bis 2010)




On the mini/dwarf issue. some people breed mini lops are are over limits/ bad type for showing ect and sell them as pets. But then there are breeders who think they are breeding fab awsome show winning stock and well they arnt and then there are just backyard breeders with a fancy prefix breeding from "show winning" stock. um how many generations back was that then lol
And i agree mal is caused by crossbreeding. and breeding with buns with it already. As a show breeder it is in our best intrests to make healthy as we can animals. where are breeding for fun the dont really care/worry about backgrounds.
and thats why people think ALL breeders are bad because some of them are so we all get labled the same. gets my goat it really does



What about having an indoor rabbit? you only need an indoor cage and let it run around the house


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> loverly looking lops you have there, is the black a fox rather than an otter though?
> 
> i`d vote they`re both mini, just different sizes, his head shape and shorter ears look mini to me.
> in my experience dwarf lops have longer, wider ears.
> ...


I've always been told he's Black Otter? I'm honestly not sure of the differences between Fox and Otter? :lol2:

It was mostly his head and ear shape/ length that led me to believe that he was infact Mini Lop. His mum was about the same size as he is now and his dad was a bit smaller, about the same size as my Butterfly bunny.

Yup, it's the Butterfly who has dental issues. She is very tiny and always has been and the rescue believes it is why the breeder didn't want her. People didn't believe she was old enough to sell as she was so small but the breeder didn't want to keep her for too long. :/ Sad.


Sorry to the OP for kind of going off the original topic a bit. :whistling2:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

foxes are my favourite colour.

has he got any creamy tan in the triange on his neck behing his ears or on the border between the white belly and his back colour?
if theres no tan there he is a fox, like this one


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

He has a caramel sort of colour on his neck, behind his ears and in the ticking on his back. It can be seen better here:









My favourite colours are Chocolate Otter and Blue Otter.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

SnickersTheFirst said:


> He has a caramel sort of colour on his neck, behind his ears and in the ticking on his back. It can be seen better here:
> image
> 
> My favourite colours are Chocolate Otter and Blue Otter.



He's definately an Otter :2thumb:. Nicely ticked too.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

couldnt see any tanning on the pic with the butterfly.

he`s very pretty.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

Thank you both. 

Yeah, it's directly behind his neck which is why it hardly shows in pics.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

some of the ticking up the sides is usually coloured too, in the ones i used to show it was quite richly coloured.


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## SnickersTheFirst (Jul 19, 2011)

Around his legs and his belly has a little bit of brown ticking, it doesn't show too well in photos for some reason. I think it blends in with his black coat as it's a dark-ish brown.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

feorag said:


> :roll2: PMSL!
> I'm just sitting here wondering why you think someone is rude who is telling you what they think from their experience as a breeder and judge of that breed?
> 
> If I was telling someone who was showing a photo of a pedigree cat and telling everyone it was a particular breed and I knew it wasn't, from my own experience of breeding and showing pedigree cats, I would find it quite offensive to be told I was being rude.


Im sorry I missed answering when this post was newer and I realise it is all decided it is water under the bridge...However I still wanted to answer as mine was one comment replied to

I would hope you would know I am not one to jump to being defensive, and as said the intonation is not present in the written word.

That is one reason smilies are so widely used, and I have to say a lot of :whistling2: and :Na_Na_Na_Na: made the posts from Cornygirl read offensively to me also.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sadly Smilies are also abused!

I've seen some really offensive comments that couldn't be construed as anything but that, with a :lol2: added to the end, so that when someone has come back with comments that it was a bit nasty or offensive, the response is, "but I was only joking, didn't you see the smiley?"

Not good enough for me that one!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Look what these poor smilies have to go through on a daily basis!!
whip2:mf_dribble::whip:
:bash::bash:
:blowup:
:help:

Enough Smilie abuse
Join the RSPCS-Save the poor smilies! :lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Personally I'm very fond of :lol2: :gasp: :whistling2: :2thumb: :flrt: :devil:

And I do have to use this one quite regularly! :blush:


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

I have a lion head x english, he is sweet, still not keen on being picked up but once he is in your arms he calms down. If you have him/her spayed this will help keep rabbit friendly. I dont really like hutches, they cant stretch there backs, but if your having a big run attatched with full access then thats not to bad. They need to be able to stretch there back up or they end up with spine problems, also leg problems if they cant hop at least 4 times worth of space.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

eeeerm this isnt actually true.

they dont have to run about like nutters in oodles of space or they end up disabled!

they do need enough space to behave normally and so you dont break the five freedoms and animal welfare laws.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

dizzylynn said:


> I dont really like hutches, they cant stretch there backs, but if your having a big run attatched with full access then thats not to bad. They need to be able to stretch there back up or they end up with spine problems, also leg problems if they cant hop at least 4 times worth of space.


I disagree too, in that if the hutch is right, then there's no problem. All rabbit hutches should have sufficient height to enable the rabbit to stand up fully on its hind legs and the problem is that the cheaper, standard, cr*p pet shop hutches don't have this and they are the problem.

Hutches are available if you are prepared to spend the money that will give the rabbit the right height to stretch or alternatively, like we did, you build your own to the specs to suit your rabbit!


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> I have a lion head x english, he is sweet, still not keen on being picked up but once he is in your arms he calms down. If you have him/her spayed this will help keep rabbit friendly. I dont really like hutches, they cant stretch there backs, but if your having a big run attatched with full access then thats not to bad. They need to be able to stretch there back up or they end up with spine problems, also leg problems if they cant hop at least 4 times worth of space.



Sorry but i disagree too :whistling2:. Like said if they are given too much space this is when they will get problems. You have to find what suits your rabbit, some are lazy & don't like space. You wouldn't give a Pole the same space you would give a Continental/British Giant :gasp:.


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

me with my big bun Se7en, she was so sweet and gentle, providing you stayed out the way of her massive lethal claws

















Se7en on her own









with her daughter Thorn, father was a lop ear of some sort. 

i miss my bunnies  RIP bun buns


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Gorgeous bunnies! :2thumb:


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Evilshiddenclaws said:


> me with my big bun Se7en, she was so sweet and gentle, providing you stayed out the way of her massive lethal claws
> image
> 
> image
> ...



Yes gorgeous rabbits, needed a manicure though :gasp: (which is why you got scratched).


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

Can I hijack just a little.

Whats the breed of rabbit that is small / medium, has sticky up ears and the 'natural' colours of a wild rabbit?


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## Evilshiddenclaws (May 25, 2010)

feorag said:


> Gorgeous bunnies! :2thumb:


thanks very much



corny girl said:


> Yes gorgeous rabbits, needed a manicure though :gasp: (which is why you got scratched).


clipping her nails got me worse off, believe me, i did try, but she had such long quicks that they couldnt be cut short anyway. i still have the scars she gave me from those talons. wouldnt have traded her for anything though, loved her so much


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Can I hijack just a little.
> 
> Whats the breed of rabbit that is small / medium, has sticky up ears and the 'natural' colours of a wild rabbit?


As far as I'm aware, but I'm not a rabbit expert, the natural colour of a wild rabbit is agouti and there is more than one breed of rabbit that has sticky up ears and an agouti coat.


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

feorag said:


> As far as I'm aware, but I'm not a rabbit expert, the natural colour of a wild rabbit is agouti and there is more than one breed of rabbit that has sticky up ears and an agouti coat.


Ok, not as simple then.

:lol2:

This is the sort of rabbit:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

what sort of size?

could be a solid english? or a cross of some sort.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> eeeerm this isnt actually true.
> 
> they dont have to run about like nutters in oodles of space or they end up disabled!
> 
> they do need enough space to behave normally and so you dont break the five freedoms and animal welfare laws.


 
If you check out youtube, there is a video uploaded from the rabbit welfare sociaty, type in a hutch is not enough, it shows you how hutches are not suitable. I agree with it.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Why a hutch is not enough...inadequate rabbit accommodation - YouTube

This is the video and she explains what happens if they cant stretch there back and hynd legs and why they need to hop, she shows you a good size rabbit in the hutch and you can see its tiny for him. Most hutches are made this size, infact nearly all of them are, thats why I got a play hut not a hutch which worked out only small bit more than a hutch with rubbish run attatched. I will be building a large run with loads of tunnels and low levels for him to enjoy and high so we can sit in there with him.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Would make that another pet ruled out for the average person on the street

All very well to say that you need a shed if you own or housing association/council rent you home (ie permanent rent) 
The rest in the mid ground that dont get enough to buy and don't get little enough to get cheaper housing provided can not start sticking up random sheds.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

You dont need a shed if you can allow him/her the run of your house, or a room at least 8 hours a day, alot dont realise these animals need more than just a hutch with or without a run, the need contact, company once its rabbit proofed, toys they are very playfull and enjoy playing even with simple kitchen roll tubes, they can be very loving and rewarding, I wouldnt be put off by the housing, if you choose to get a regular hutch just keep in mind that during the day let him/her out to stretch her legs and use the muscles in her back legs and spine, play games, use a blank wreath and get her to do jumps through it, get them to reach up for there parsley etc


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

think i know how to look after my rabbits thank you, i`ve kept them, bred them and exhibited them for more than 2 weeks.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> think i know how to look after my rabbits thank you, i`ve kept them, bred them and exhibited them for more than 2 weeks.



This ^^^. I shut that video off after a few minutes, the biggest load of twaddle i have ever seen :gasp:. If my rabbit's didn't have muscle tone/were fit they wouldn't of won well at shows.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i didnt even click on the link. 
not having any tree huggers with bambi syndrome telling me what to do.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> i didnt even click on the link.
> not having any tree huggers with bambi syndrome telling me what to do.



Same here, bred & exhibited my rabbits for many years & won a fair bit with them. Not having anyone telling me i need to give them 6' hutches, access to a run 12 hours a day & that they need company etc... If my rabbits weren't fit & healthy they wouldn't of won on the show table simple as that :2thumb:.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

me too.
i`d like to see how you keep show rabbit in pairs - you cant show a neuter - so they`d be either pregnant 100% of the time or ripping each others ears and eyes to bits ffs

i dont think rabbits are particulaly sociable anyhows, they seem to do better singly imo.


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

Thats what i always say. If i had unhealthy/sick rabbits they wouldnt be winning.

Its two different worlds having animals as pets and having them as show stock.
They cant live together they cant be neutard/spayed otherwise we couldnt further the lines and would have to keep bringing in new stock each time.

Its fair enough if you want a pair and let them run around in the garden or home.

Do people let there show cats or dogs roam around..no so why are smaller animals different.

As long as we are all happy how we keep our animals who is anyone to say different.
If is in our benifit to keep them in a good condition and treated well.

And just because someone has decided that a certain lengh hutch so much of this and that people belive them and follow it like its law.

I think the breeders who have been showing for 40 years know a bit more that some no it alls.

Rant over sorry hehe


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

Yep show animals are kept very differently to pet ones. Some people just can't get their heads round this :whistling2:. I do know many show dogs who live indoors & are allowed to run in muddy puddles etc... but, then i know of some that are kept on the lead (my own "show" dog can't be let off, purely because of her breed & what she was bred for). I have always said that "pet" people don't understand show people & want to try to inflict pet ways on them :bash:.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

there certainly are different standards and expectations for different types of animal keepers. to me though as long as all the requirements of the animal are met, they are safe and well fed with the correct environment and necessary medical care such as shots etc then the different methods for keeping are just that. 

there are always going to be people that go the extra mile to make animals comfortable or aim to have more contented animals but if the animal, in this case rabbit, is able to demonstrate natural behaviours such as jumping, running, digging, resting, exposed to sunshine, fresh air etc with a good balanced diet, security, warmth, fresh water and so on then thats good enough for me.

regarding rabbits living on their own. this isnt something they would do naturally is it? 
therefore i dont think it is best for them in captivity but as long as the rabbit gets enough interaction and stimulation both cognitively and physically then i dont have a problem with them being kept on their own. 

just thats a lot of time to give to a single rabbit if your breeding or own many.


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

I agree. As long as all needs are met i am happy.

I cant speak for other people but personally the amount of time myself and hubby spend with our show animals is just silly to the point when i think we spend more time with the animals than each other, But thats what you do when you have animals. 

But when you walk past a hutch and rabbits buzz at you excited for you to open a cage and say hello, you know your doing something right with them


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

lovemysnakes said:


> there certainly are different standards and expectations for different types of animal keepers. to me though as long as all the requirements of the animal are met, they are safe and well fed with the correct environment and necessary medical care such as shots etc then the different methods for keeping are just that.
> 
> there are always going to be people that go the extra mile to make animals comfortable or aim to have more contented animals but if the animal, in this case rabbit, is able to demonstrate natural behaviours such as jumping, running, digging, resting, exposed to sunshine, fresh air etc with a good balanced diet, security, warmth, fresh water and so on then thats good enough for me.
> 
> ...



But look at how many people that own just a single dog :whistling2:. These are pack animals & should be kept as a pack with their own kind, yet there are thousands that live a lonely solitary life :whistling2:. Yet nothing gets said about them.

In the wild rabbits live in a big burrow system, they come together to breed & feed. The Doe's live in the nursery burrows (away from the Bucks). So they don't really interact, only for breeding :whistling2:.


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## lovemysnakes (Apr 17, 2011)

corny girl said:


> But look at how many people that own just a single dog :whistling2:. These are pack animals & should be kept as a pack with their own kind, yet there are thousands that live a lonely solitary life :whistling2:. Yet nothing gets said about them.
> 
> In the wild rabbits live in a big burrow system, they come together to breed & feed. The Doe's live in the nursery burrows (away from the Bucks). So they don't really interact, only for breeding :whistling2:.


actually a lot is said about dogs being left alone. dogs requires masses of time and interaction so i really dont know what your talking about as the dog becomes part of the human pack. many dogs that are neglected do get rescued pretty quick as the law and rspca, blue cross, battersea dogs home so on and so on are very good at their jobs and a neglected dog is more obvious to spot than a neglected rabbit. 

a lot gets said about them! they are on tele all the time! 

female rabbits would therefore not be alone! i didnt say i dont think they shouldnt be kept as a single rabbit but that a single rabbit requires a lot more time, enrichment and interaction than a pair whom have each other for comfort, interaction etc. 

a single rabbit must become part of the family like a dog imo. 

when it comes to people showing rabbits i have seen great breeders and showers and ive seen some really poor. 

the main problem i see is space. you wouldnt keep a small dog or cat in a small hutch so why keep a rabbit in that confinement. 

my two rabbits have full run of one secure garden while supervised, a 10ft x 8 ft run, a large chicken coop home with an additional run attached and they use all of the space given to them. 

their condition is better than most rabbits i see. 

this can be called a luxury but imo if i can give it i will. there is no reason why people shouldnt use their resources to the upmost to ensure they are doing best by their animals.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

No offence but bunnies dont like being on there own, they are highly social animals, yes they will fight if you put to males together than havent been done it will be a blood bath but they bond for life a male and a female are bonded for life or till one dies. And yes they do have problems with mucles if they are not able to hop and stretch properly, many end up in rescue because people dont realise how much care and company they need.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> i didnt even click on the link.
> not having any tree huggers with bambi syndrome telling me what to do.


 
Tree hugger????? bambi syndrome???


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

out of interest,is it a requirement for showing that they are vaccinated and if so at what age are they done and how much does it cost(sorry to be another butt er in)


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

I am not sure it it is, but tbh it should be if its not, but I think it is. The cost is about the same as for a dog or cat, £30 for 1st set £20 for second, but I think the the £20 is done every 6 months. I woudnt show them, I keep bunnies for the love and rewarding nature not to show them.


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> I am not sure it it is, but tbh it should be if its not, but I think it is. The cost is about the same as for a dog or cat, £30 for 1st set £20 for second, but I think the the £20 is done every 6 months. I woudnt show them, I keep bunnies for the love and rewarding nature not to show them.



No it is not a requirement that rabbits shown at BRC shows are vaccinated, same as it isn't for dogs to be shown :whistling2:. The VHD & Myxi vaccines should never be given at the same time, a 2 week gap must be given between them. VHD is given yearly & Myxi is done every 6-9 months depending on how prevelent it is in your area :2thumb:. Vets charge different prices so best to phone around :2thumb:.

To be honest i never had any of mine vaccinated as i didn't agree with it (saw too many reactions to them). I did however take other precautions to limit mine getting either of these diseases. Within the rabbit fancy there were very few breeders who vaccinated, yet suffered no losses :whistling2:. Most of the time it is vets stirring up, so they get pet people to come in & then they can get money out of them :gasp:. My local paper used to run the same story every year & this made people rush out & get their rabbits vaccinated (vets in my area did a roaring trade in Myxi vaccinations). So does that make me irresponsible for not vaccinating my rabbits? If that's the case then most breeders would also be too :Na_Na_Na_Na:.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

corny girl said:


> No it is not a requirement that rabbits shown at BRC shows are vaccinated, same as it isn't for dogs to be shown :whistling2:. The VHD & Myxi vaccines should never be given at the same time, a 2 week gap must be given between them. VHD is given yearly & Myxi is done every 6-9 months depending on how prevelent it is in your area :2thumb:. Vets charge different prices so best to phone around :2thumb:.


thanks for the info.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

I feel if your showing (a large number of bunnies in 1 place the higher the risk of passes things on) therefor should have jags, and dogs do have to have them, classes and showing them the jags have to be upto date. A few friends show there dogs and they HAVE to produce there bar code with the batch no on it for the injection which is put in the dogs book. Maybe not all shows require this however but the ones inscotland do and the ones my friend have used do. 
I also never said its in one go, the 1st one is usually dearer (habbit of calling them sets) second `14 days later is usually cheaper depending on the vets as you say. 
I havent had charlies done because he isnit going near other bunnies, being bred or mixing with others, hes had the snip lol. I might if I feel he isnt getting enough companionship from us bond him with a neautered famale later but not rushing into that see how he copes with his time with us for now, plus he only just had his opp so another 6 weeks before the hormones drop and he cant produce babys last thing needed is accidental litters when there are far to many out there breeding just for the sake of it.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> I woudnt show them, I keep bunnies for the love and rewarding nature not to show them.


I've no doubt you do love them.I'm quite interested in the showing side.I don't own any at the moment but will do in the next few months.I shall follow the breeders instructions on keeping them initially anyway but othere peoples input is interesting to.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Everyone has different views and opinions, no matter what animal it is. Dogs, cats, birds no matter what it is, everyone has there way of doing it, it may not be the best for others but its the best for the animals in most cases, like having birds, or not sometimes but its due to knowledge of an animals needs not lack of love for an aniamal. I am a strong believer if you have a pet bird it gets out the cage as often as you can, which my bird was allowed to do most of the day before he died, many dont let them out at all. Same with my rat, she was out alot and in our arms alot and she loved it cuddled into us as often as she could. I had rats 14 years ago and I had them in a tiny cage (knew nothing) so we all make mistakes. My girl however last time was in a huge cage with loads of runs and tunels for her. and she got lots of time and company from us since she was on her own.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Dr Anne McBride

This is the lady in the video, she has a phd in rabbit behavour, if you still wish to dismiss her video then nothing will change your mind.


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

Thats a point i always make. pet people will argue with show people and bring up stuff from google to prove there point.

As long as everyone is happy with the way they keep there animals it doesnt matter what other people think


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> I havent had charlies done because he isnit going near other bunnies, being bred or mixing with others, hes had the snip lol. I might if I feel he isnt getting enough companionship from us bond him with a neautered famale later but not rushing into that see how he copes with his time with us for now, plus he only just had his opp so another 6 weeks before the hormones drop and he cant produce babys last thing needed is accidental litters when there are far to many out there breeding just for the sake of it.



Well to be honest you are going on about vaccination etc... & it is you who hasn't done your research :whistling2:. The fact is that they actually don't need to come into contact with any other rabbits to get these diseases (so Charlie is still at risk). Myxi is not passed on from rabbit to rabbit. Both Myxi & VHD are caused by biting insects (ie fleas & mosquitoes).


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

no you dont need to have show rabbits vaccinated ( its cats that do ) tbh i dont think many exhibitors have them done.

but show rabbits tend to be kept differently than pets ones - kept on white shavings so as to not get dirty feet, kept inside sheds so as to not get bleached by the sun, around wild rabbits to get fleas or bitten by mozzies that spread myxi etc.
they have more attention than pet ones shoved up the garden imo.

they may not have massive hutches with attached runs, but they still have to have housing and care that abides by the animal welfare laws and the five freedoms

theres no `vetting in` with rabbits, you`re responsible for the health of your rabbit, a rabbit thats showing signs of illness will be asked to be boxed - runny eyes, sneezing, ringworm etc - so its not a health risk to others. 

show ones do have to have a water bottle on their show pen though.

an unfit rabbit that has no muscle tone and dosnt handle well will not win.


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> an unfit rabbit that has no muscle tone and dosnt handle well will not win.


 
And i think thats a reason that pet people dont understand.


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## Emma Lassey (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi I have rabbits, personally I think it's best to keep them in pairs, there's nothing nicer seeing two snuggled up together. :flrt:











This is where they live and they are very happy!  They run very fast so love all the space. 










II feel sorry for many rabbits kept just for show, what a lonely life that must be, being taken places just to be judged on how they look. All rabbits are wonderful, it doesn't matter if one has longer ears or "neater markings" than another. I know my buns are happy anyway. :flrt:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

nice choccy english 

maybe the prejudiced amongst you should actually visit a rabbit show and an exhibitor?
and actually see how things are done before you decide we`re all evil and shouldnt have buns?
think you`d be suprised at home much time/effort/money goes into the hobby tbh.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Emma Lassey said:


> Hi I have rabbits, personally I think it's best to keep them in pairs, there's nothing nicer seeing two snuggled up together. :flrt:
> 
> 
> image
> ...


 

What a lovely pen for them:2thumb: I love seeing bonded buns too, lots of grooming, snuggles and binkying:flrt:


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Emma Lassey said:


> Hi I have rabbits, personally I think it's best to keep them in pairs, there's nothing nicer seeing two snuggled up together. :flrt:
> 
> 
> image
> ...


I know that enclosure, your from the bunny forum, this is one of the set ups I am aiming to try and make for charlie out back  maybe bit lower am not that tall lol.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

I agree, these shows are more on the look of the animal, how proud it sits, and well groomed it is, how perfect its colours/markings are, tbh I would rather spend money on its enclusure/home and fun run than on petrol to go back and forth to these shows, and entry fees etc. The money isnt really going to the bunnies, its going to the shows. Its up to them tho if they enjoy the shows (the person) its a hobby but rep keepers also say its a hobby, to me its not a hobby my hobby is jewellery making and card making, the animals are part of my family not my hobby.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well I've never bred or exhibited rabbits, but I did cats for over 20 years and my cats were part of my family too. The way I looked at it was that it was an extra way of enjoying my cats. If a cat didn't enjoy being shown, it wasn't! But most of mine did and I enjoyed it too. Spending a day with like minded, enthusiastic people is a great day out.

The breeding aspect is to improve the breed, everyone should be striving to breed the perfect animal (we all know perfect doesn't exist, but close enough to perfect is great), to conscientious, caring breeders, it's not about the money or the fact that their dog/cat/horse/rabbit etc etc has won something, it's about the fact that they've bred one good enough to be considered near perfect.

If you've never done it, you maybe can't understand it, but it doesn't mean that those animals are loved or cared for properly.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> Well I've never bred or exhibited rabbits, but I did cats for over 20 years and my cats were part of my family too. The way I looked at it was that it was an extra way of enjoying my cats. If a cat didn't enjoy being shown, it wasn't! But most of mine did and I enjoyed it too. Spending a day with like minded, enthusiastic people is a great day out.
> 
> The breeding aspect is to improve the breed, everyone should be striving to breed the perfect animal (we all know perfect doesn't exist, but close enough to perfect is great), to conscientious, caring breeders, it's not about the money or the fact that their dog/cat/horse/rabbit etc etc has won something, it's about the fact that they've bred one good enough to be considered near perfect.
> 
> If you've never done it, you maybe can't understand it, but it doesn't mean that those animals are loved or cared for properly.


 

Dont forget dog shows either, they all strive to have the best dog but most of them are family pets when they are at home!


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

There are many out there that are loving beautifull happy family pets, but alot arent, really its not down to the shows its how each person sees there animal, if they just see a prize animal or a certificate not a family member then its them I dont like. I have a friend who shows ridgebacks, there on here too dont think they come in this section but I have everybit of respect for these guys there dogs are beautiful and a lovely breed not because they won prizes but because they are loving playfull and happy, but they are pets 1st not prize dogs 1st.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

so its ok to breed and show dogs and cats but not rabbits or other small furries?

not sure why theres a difference? 
as long as they`re looked after correctly and treated well i dont see that theres any difference?


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

I agree, if you have never shown anything maybe you dont understand about how things work.

If there was an ill or out of condition animal it wouldnt show well/if at all. Its not just about looks yes a certain type is needed as is with other show animals.

I have cuddles with my animals, i talk to them they are my pets. But my hobby is showing them. They have the 5 freedoms and are looked after a great deal more than some pets are stuck down the bottom of the garden not fed properly never spoke to. Arnt these the people that should be educated not the people who show.

I have dogs who are purebred but i dont show them. They are spayed as why would i want to breed them if i didnt show them. 

I think as always when i see this topic talked about, everyone has different opinions there are the breeders/showers and then there are people who have a few as pets. No one will ever agree on it.

If i ever have a problem or need advice do i google thigns, nope i ask the people who have had rabbits for 30+ years the ones who win week in week out they must be doing something right.

There was a lovely article in the rabbit mag about this, there was a breeder and a lady both shared there veiws and ideas on this subject. when you see both sides written out fairly it is very interesting.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

plus theres the point of where you`re gonig to get your nicely bred, healthy pure-bred bunny once everything neutered so none get bred at all!!!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> If you've never done it, you maybe can't understand it, but it doesn't mean that those animals *are* loved or cared for properly.


Oops, :blush: Another famous type - I obviously meant to say that it doesn't mean that those animals *aren't *loved or cared for properly. That typo actually changed the whole meaning of the sentence. :gasp:



Shell195 said:


> Dont forget dog shows either, they all strive to have the best dog but most of them are family pets when they are at home!


I did mention dogs at the end, with horse and rabbits.:2thumb:

I showed my Afghan Hounds in the 70s and they were our family dogs they went everywhere with us - on holidays and weekends away etc - how many pet people do that with their dogs??? Certainly not everyone.



dizzylynn said:


> There are many out there that are loving beautifull happy family pets, but alot arent, really its not down to the shows its how each person sees there animal, if they just see a prize animal or a certificate not a family member then its them I dont like. I have a friend who shows ridgebacks, there on here too dont think they come in this section but I have everybit of respect for these guys there dogs are beautiful and a lovely breed not because they won prizes but because they are loving playfull and happy, but they are pets 1st not prize dogs 1st.


Exactly, so you can't pick out breeders as not caring about their animals when there are loads of families with animals that never bother about them at all.


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## Emma Lassey (Mar 16, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> nice choccy english
> 
> maybe the prejudiced amongst you should actually visit a rabbit show and an exhibitor?
> and actually see how things are done before you decide we`re all evil and shouldnt have buns?
> think you`d be suprised at home much time/effort/money goes into the hobby tbh.


Thank you. 

I actually I often go to shows and enter pet class but ONLY with rabbits who are happy travelling and seem relaxed in these surroundings. I would never take a bun who would get stressed. I mainly only go to shows where my pets can be let out anyway and have exercise so usually I only go to shows where we can do a bit of rabbit jumping as one of my buns loves that. 

I'm actually going to a show this saturday to steward, better having some people steward who care than others who don't, some people are really rough with the poor buns.  Some rabbits are very well cared for and it's clear. Yet some are petrified and you can tell they do not want to be there, hence the reason I didn't say I feel sorry for all show rabbits, but lots I do feel for.


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i`ve judged a bit.

when i used to judge pet classes i always put the friendly one with carrot stains under the chin and stained feet from digging holes in first place 

not the ones thats were blatently ex-show with the rings cut off


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## Emma Lassey (Mar 16, 2011)

pigglywiggly said:


> i`ve judged a bit.
> 
> when i used to judge pet classes i always put the friendly one with carrot stains under the chin and stained feet from digging holes in first place
> 
> not the ones thats were blatently ex-show with the rings cut off


aww that's lovely.


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## kelly-m-e (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree with everything that’s been said, I started out as a pet person. didn’t really know much about showing/breeding etc. i followed the various pet forums and they literally scared me into getting all my buns neutered as soon as I could afford to. I agree it made my rabbits a bit tamer, but couldn’t see a huge difference in them. Also one of my rabbits hates, and i mean hates other rabbits anywhere near her. So not all animals can be bonded into pairs and live happily ever after.

since then I have been and visited quite a few shows (mainly guinea pig ones, but they do have a few bunnies too) and I was totally shocked at how much time and effort is put into keeping these animals in perfect, tip top condition! Far more time than any pet person I’ve ever met! 

I personally believe there are too many people (me included) who spend loads of time on these pet forums, where they high light the terrible breeders, giving the rest bad reputations. And as said before if they actually went around and seen some of the better ones, maybe their opinions would change. 

But you do get the odd bad breeder/pet owner who don’t treat there pets with the respect and care they all deserve. 

After all of that iv come to the conclusion that.... it doesn’t matter why you keep your pet, as long as it gets what they need and deserve!
RANT OVER :blush:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well said!! :notworthy:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

kelly how long did i have to bug you to go to the piggy show down the road?

didnt i tell you they were lovely friendly people and nowt like the witches on the pet forum?

:lol2:


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

I hate some pet forums, full of fluffys and cage police 

You deffo have to pick and choose what forums are the best.

I agree with you there, i started off with a pet from a backyard breeder (not knowing any difference) then went to a pet shop (now i think why the hell did i do that )
Then i found show animals and show people who spoke sence.


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## kelly-m-e (Jun 17, 2009)

pigglywiggly said:


> kelly how long did i have to bug you to go to the piggy show down the road?
> 
> didnt i tell you they were lovely friendly people and nowt like the witches on the pet forum?
> 
> :lol2:


 
too long! i wish id gone there in the first place. total opposite to the forums, 95% of the people go out of there way to make sure you fit in somewhere. totally opposite the fluffy forums lol :notworthy:


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