# What makes a good venomous enclosure?



## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

Hi all

I'd like to know your opinions on what makes a decent, practical and safe venomous snake or lizard enclosure.


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

One that is secure and locks:2thumb: In my opinion, although i'm biased, I prefer Herptek cages which is what I use.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

for me personally safety is paramount, I like to keep cages simple and functional whilst at the same time not compromising the snake, some of my vivs have news paper and cardboard hides, whilst some are on subsrate with rocks and cork bark, I always like to set them up so that there are no areas where it would be really tricky to remove the snake, and finally a good lock!!


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

What about cage maintanence? What I'm getting at is say you have a 6 viv stack and the bulb in the second one up blows, what do you do? Someone mentioned herpteks, these are perfect for this type of setup as all electricals can be used outside of the viv as they have that indentation for sitting a heater on and is accesable withought removing the vivs on top. I just thought this was a really thought out and good idea.: victory:
I dont keep venomous by the way.


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## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

Herptek vivs still have the light fittings attached on the inside the same as any viv, and if your going to keep venomous you must be confident enough with the species of snake your keeping to be able to remove the animal safely to a temporary enclosure whilst you change the light bulb which can blow at any time.

So an enclosure that would enable you to have ALL the electrics on the outside so you would never have to maintain the inside isn't really an option.

Personally though I also use Herptek vivs and I've found them to be ideal to house venomous.
I can rest easy knowing full well that my enclosures are one piece moulded plastic and that there are no gaps that my snakes could easily slip through. Also, my DWAL inspections are never anything to be concerned about as theyr'e probably the safest enclosures you can use.

Provided you make sure you lock up the front doors...


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

trueviper said:


> Herptek vivs still have the light fittings attached on the inside the same as any viv, and if your going to keep venomous you must be confident enough with the species of snake your keeping to be able to remove the animal safely to a temporary enclosure whilst you change the light bulb which can blow at any time.
> 
> So an enclosure that would enable you to have ALL the electrics on the outside so you would never have to maintain the inside isn't really an option.
> 
> ...


Which model Herptek do you have? All mine have light bulbs & heat bulbs + reflectors on the outside located at the top or centre of the vivs. Even tube lighting can be attached from the outside at the back of the vivs. The only problem with Herptek are the ledges where reptiles, especially snakes can lodge themselves quite tighly. I also wouldn't advise any hatchling snakes to be housed in them due to a couple of tiny gaps between the runners and glass in the corners.


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## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am not a fan of herptek vivs for venomous snakes as they can hide on the lip above the door and why pay all that money just to have to spend more time and money making the vonomous safe, i do have them though and as far as i know all the electrics are on the outside in the recess in the top of the viv. but i use bog standard home made vivs for my stuff with locks on the glass. if a bulb goes then you just take the snake out and put it in to a bin then take the guard off and replace the bulb just like any other snake.


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## trueviper (Jan 13, 2008)

I use the oustside alcove for the heat lamp but for the lighting I've drilled through the ceiling and attached a light fitting on the inside. In the four years that I've had these vivs set-up I've never once had to accsess the back to change the heat bulbs but the light bulbs have gone often. I wouldn't want to have to move my set-up about every time I had to replace the bulbs, I find it much easier having them inside.

On the back of the Herptek vivs there are two ventilation meshs, is this where others have been placing their lighting? 

As far as keeping hatchling or juvenile snakes in Herptek vivs I've always kept them in seperate tubs, then kept the tubs together in the the same viv just like everyone else does.

And the ledge above the door could definately be a safety issue for concern, however I've only ever kept and plan to keep viper species and so far they've all stayed away from that top ledge and have never given me any trouble when it's been time to remove them.
Elapids perhaps would be a different matter being that they're more active and have more of a tendancy to climb about their enclosures.


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

trueviper said:


> I use the oustside alcove for the heat lamp but for the lighting I've drilled through the ceiling and attached a light fitting on the inside. In the four years that I've had these vivs set-up I've never once had to accsess the back to change the heat bulbs but the light bulbs have gone often. I wouldn't want to have to move my set-up about every time I had to replace the bulbs, I find it much easier having them inside.
> 
> *On the back of the Herptek vivs there are two ventilation meshs, is this where others have been placing their lighting?*
> 
> ...


That's where I place my lights, none on the inside.

I have to admit the lip is a pain, though there are ways to avoid it being so.

They are expensive, but I love the look & durabililty of them, plus they are really easy to move about because of their weight for the size.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Great thread, ive been thinking about this type of thing (buying a place later this year fingers crossed! Space will be set aside for a hot room) 

Ive sketched some plans for a viv stack with a 'double top' to each viv - essentially from the snakes point of view in the viv above them would be mesh. - on top of the mesh is a space where you have the heating and lighting elements so you can get access to the heat and light without going into the enclosure at all - plus it means the snake cant latch on to the heating or lighting equipment should you want to get them out. And of course the mesh will be excellent ventilation. The material would be MDF, i've had success with this in the past and have had no problems waterproofing it. Does that make sense?


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## jonny cichla (Apr 6, 2008)

Not to keen on the herptecs personally! as they have a deep ledge under the slideing glass! and those bitey critters use this to there advantage!
i use vision cages personally!:2thumb:


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

chondro13 said:


> Ive sketched some plans for a viv stack with a 'double top' to each viv - essentially from the snakes point of view in the viv above them would be mesh. - on top of the mesh is a space where you have the heating and lighting elements so you can get access to the heat and light without going into the enclosure at all - plus it means the snake cant latch on to the heating or lighting equipment should you want to get them out. And of course the mesh will be excellent ventilation. The material would be MDF, i've had success with this in the past and have had no problems waterproofing it. Does that make sense?


 
Yes.

Like some pet stores set up?

I may be an idiot or thinking too much but whats a double locked viv? 2 locks or 2 sets of doors (think viv within a viv)?


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

Whosthedaddy said:


> Yes.
> 
> Like some pet stores set up?
> 
> I may be an idiot or thinking too much but whats a double locked viv? 2 locks or 2 sets of doors (think viv within a viv)?


Indeed - i actually stole the idea from manchester pets and aquatics lol. I would certainly adapt it to be more sturdy for venomous, but its a pretty simple design and would be best for me personally - which i think is the main thing about this subject. The only basic requirements for a venomous enclosure at the end of the day is that it needs to be secure so the snake doesn't escape, and it needs to provide the snake with adequate parameters (temp, humidity, space) to keep it healthy. Thats really it. Everything else is down to the opinion and preference of the keeper. 

A double door system is really in regards to the room itself not the vivs - its common to have one door into a little 'porch' then a second door which you can see through to see if there are any escapees. Some councils require these for a hot room, but they are always a good idea : victory: the vivs themselves just need a bog standard lock.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

chondro13 said:


> Great thread, ive been thinking about this type of thing (buying a place later this year fingers crossed! Space will be set aside for a hot room)
> 
> Ive sketched some plans for a viv stack with a 'double top' to each viv - essentially from the snakes point of view in the viv above them would be mesh. - on top of the mesh is a space where you have the heating and lighting elements so you can get access to the heat and light without going into the enclosure at all - plus it means the snake cant latch on to the heating or lighting equipment should you want to get them out. And of course the mesh will be excellent ventilation. The material would be MDF, i've had success with this in the past and have had no problems waterproofing it. Does that make sense?


 
Helen that is a brilliant idea!! I would start making them and selling I've seen nothing like that before.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

Can I say this? If I was going to keep any venomous, which I hopefully will in the future I would start with a terrestrial viper species. I would choose this because they are generally small and probably easier to handle than a skitish cobra. I would also go this route because alot of them are restricted to ground level so therefore I believe that most handling could be done on the ground, reducing possible risks where elapids can shoot off in all directions. At least if the snake is restricted to the ground you only have to watch out for feet! Hands shouldnt be within reach anyway if an apropriate hook is used.: victory:


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

I am quite happy with my Herptek, although I do need another 6 and no dosh readily available to ship them. They are a bit on the expensive side but other than that I wouldn't change them. As someone mentioned above, the vision cages and the HP terra are just as good so I guess it's down to taste and cost. I personally have no lighting or heating on the inside of my vivs as they are provided with spaces for these within the moulds. I found my vipera ammodytes to be the best starter venomous snake for me, although I have been dealing with them for years in their natural habitat on a weekly basis so I guess i'm being bias. The ledge below the sliding glass doors isn't the worst one it's the one at the top that bugs me the most. I have been tagged a few times by my GTPs from that ledge, thankfully my v.ammodytes never leave the ground.


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## chondro13 (Aug 18, 2008)

STReptiles said:


> Helen that is a brilliant idea!! I would start making them and selling I've seen nothing like that before.


I cant really take credit for the idea lol. ill ask a friend of mine who works at MPA and see if he minds if i take some pics to give you an idea. I like the thought, but would definitely adapt it to be much studier and have 'wedge' shaped pieces of wood to put at the base or at the top to avoid any potential hidey holes, but knowing me id have a stupidly thick substrate layer etc to eliminate this risk from below :lol2:




STReptiles said:


> Can I say this? If I was going to keep any venomous, which I hopefully will in the future I would start with a terrestrial viper species. I would choose this because they are generally small and probably easier to handle than a skitish cobra. I would also go this route because alot of them are restricted to ground level so therefore I believe that most handling could be done on the ground, reducing possible risks where elapids can shoot off in all directions. At least if the snake is restricted to the ground you only have to watch out for feet! Hands shouldnt be within reach anyway if an apropriate hook is used.: victory:


Again i think its very much down to opinion and preference of the keeper. Cobras frankly scare the hell out of me. I think they are beautiful animals but not my real cup of tea, i could probably care for one, and i certainly have the respect (brown respect i call it..) but i cant see myself ever keeping one.

I would much prefer a small arboreal viper to a terrestrial one personally - but thats because i have always been more 'at home' and comfortable with arboreal snakes. Thats my preference - of course these may well be more tricky to deal with as you have to disentangle them from sticks etc rather than hook them up from a nice flat floor, but thats just me. I completely see your reasoning for wanting to start with that type of snake.


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## STReptiles (Feb 6, 2009)

chondro13 said:


> I cant really take credit for the idea lol. ill ask a friend of mine who works at MPA and see if he minds if i take some pics to give you an idea. I like the thought, but would definitely adapt it to be much studier and have 'wedge' shaped pieces of wood to put at the base or at the top to avoid any potential hidey holes, but knowing me id have a stupidly thick substrate layer etc to eliminate this risk from below :lol2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yea I love arboreal snakes thats all I've kept for the last 4-5years really with a dabble in a boa or two every now and then lol.
That is purely the reason I would go for a terrestrial viper but I admit I adore asian arboreal vipers! they are my favourite snakes by far. As for cobra's they dont take my fancy tbh, I doubt I'd keep one but I have been in a small room with an 11ft king on the loose though and I will admit they are daunting animals.

Sam.: victory:


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