# satin fancy rats pics please !



## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

as above please !!:flrt:


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## Mischievous_Mark (Mar 16, 2008)

Ratties_6 said:


> as above please !!:flrt:


didnt think you could get satin rats :s


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

You can, but they're not a recognised variety in the show world, and some people dont believe in them lol.

I've seen some lovely shiny rats that are shown off as satins when they're just regular coats in good nick, but real satins dont float my boat, they look lank and greasy.

The North American Rat Registry

See what I mean? Maybe it's just me...:blush:


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## royal_girly (Apr 14, 2008)

wierd.

There is a rat show on at the Rotherham show on the Saturday, i'm going to go have a look, its usually a rabbit show so will make a nice change. 

:2thumb:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Yup, it's the YRC show if I remember correctly. I wont be at that one, maybe the Leeds one, not decided yet. Going to the London Champs though on 12th, whoohoo!


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## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

i was really just wondering :2thumb:

because i think my boy bailey may be a satin but maybe he's just in good nick !!:lol2:

he's beautiful anyway !!


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## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

Mischievous_Mark said:


> didnt think you could get satin rats :s


i thought that too !! who knew !! LOL


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

There are rats around that people call satin that aren't too, so it's very confusing. Real satin should look oiled and slick apparently, and the hairs are transparent? I've seen loads of rats *called* satins but never seen a real one.


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## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

i think thats what bailey is then !

coz he doesn't look oiled :lol2:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Why dont you post a piccie then folks can have a guess? :flrt:


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## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

i would ! but how ?? :lol2:


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

I wanna see, i wanna see ! :flrt:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I think the coat doesn't show up in photo's very well.

I have what they call satins that look oily and are slightly longer than a normal coat but as others have said a lot of people dont' like them.

Mark,

You RB is supposed to be satin. Depending on how she matured anyway.
Her parents were both the oily satin that people speak of.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ratties_6 said:


> i would ! but how ?? :lol2:


 
How To - Post pictures using Photobucket.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

baby satin rats next to normal coat rats



















when they get older they usually look like normal rats but slightly longer hair (hardly noticable though)


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## angela__k__84 (Oct 4, 2008)

I love that colour :flrt:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I've been informed I'm a numpty for not knowing these ARE standardised, so sorry for any confusion, but I am a bit slow to catch on. By a few years. :blush::lol2:



> The satin shall have a high sheen coat resulting in a satin like or metallic gloss. The colour may be that of any recognised variety. Satinization will appear to increase the intensity of any colour and this should be taken into account.
> Genetics: unrecognised recessive gene Sa*. Probably at least 2.


From what I gather, they dont necessarily have a longer coat either. At least not the ones I've heard about on club forums, but apparently those from US lines have longer coats.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

True satins as someone mentioned earlier are determined by each hair follicle being up to 80% transparent, as per other species like Cavies and Syrians where the satin gene does exist and is recognized. One of the characteristics of Satin is typically that it darkens the coat colour of some paler varieties too.

I'm not keen on them for the sheer reason that there are too many people trying to pass off rats with exceptionally shiny or silvered coats or slightly longer fur as satin. That is _not_ the true definition of satin, but that is one of the side effects of what the satin gene does. If more people got hold of what appear to be the true satins that are now appearing (seems to be a simple recessive gene) and actually worked on them properly, I think they could be a rewarding variety.

Russian blues in particular are hard to determine, because russian blues have always had a slightly different textured coat and so the majority of what i've seen I woud say are not true satin.

I've seen many pics and some in real life so called satins. I have seen some pretty convincing ones but most to me were just hopeful owners or complete boguses. I have seen convincing pics too, but most of these are rats from america.

The true satin gene that comes up it should pretty much "work" on all colours, not just russian blue or russian blue based. True satin mutation should not have a linkage to any colour loci. Of course it won't look as effective on some colours, though.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

ladyboid said:


> baby satin rats next to normal coat rats
> 
> 
> image
> ...


These are very similar to the ones I have seen locally sold as "satins" that aren't. All have been russian based. I really don't think your rats are satins, I think they are this variety I have seen that are basically longer haired russian rats, often with a kink in the fur like that. I truly don't mean to offend by saying that. Do you have any pictures of them as adults?


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I would tend to agree. Unless they look quite different "in the fur" to those pics, I wouldn't call those Satins.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

> I think they are this variety I have seen that are basically longer haired russian rats, often with a kink in the fur like that.


I've seen these too, I think some people refer to them as Velveteens, but to me they often look like poor rexes (if we're thinking about the same thing).


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## Ratties_6 (Aug 3, 2009)

they are very cute though !! :flrt:


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

Yes they do look like velveteen, 

Found the guide standard info
*Velveteen* - Wavy coat & softly curled/wavy whiskers. Coat should be even and preferably dense. Older rats coats may thin with age and this is a fault for show. Texture to be soft. 

They are lovely tho:flrt:

Alex x


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Yes i do have photos of them now older and they coat is shiney and not long or wavey (but it is soft and very fine which gives it the greasy long look when young). 
I also have these in other colours and not just russian blue.
I have produced these in russian blue, british blue and siamese so far.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Just looked up Velveteens and my adult rats look nothing like them but can see why a young one might be mistaken for one.
my adults look like the satins shown on the same site i found the Velveteens on.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

> *Velveteen* - Wavy coat & softly curled/wavy whiskers. Coat should be even and preferably dense. Older rats coats may thin with age and this is a fault for show. Texture to be soft.


Probably from the *American Fancy Rat & Mouse Association*

As they're not recognized in the UK.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

There is currently a thread on FR (same OP perhaps?) and it's been said on there that the "satins" with longer coats are a different gene (plush?).

Fancy Rats • View topic - satin ??


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I've heard that before too, and i've also heard there are thought to be even more different satin genes floating around.


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## jakies13 (Aug 30, 2009)

mattm said:


> Probably from the *American Fancy Rat & Mouse Association*
> 
> As they're not recognized in the UK.


 
Yes it is from usa.
Was gonna mention about it not being recognised in uk but didnt have any up to date info as havent had rats or been to a show for a while:lol2:
and everything changes


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Yes these rats have been discussed a lot on various boards (not these specific kittens) and the general concensus is that they are not satins, they are something else. They're pretty though. 

Russian coats in general look softer and plusher as they are double. None of those kittens have the sheen of a satin (which should be as striking a sheen as a satin mouse or guinea pig), which is why I was interested to see if there was a dramatic change into adulthood. 

I have a feeling this is old news though as I am beginning to remember joining this very board and saying the same to the same people back then lol. Feels like eons ago! :lol2:


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I have replied over there...I sometimes think people like to complicate things more. What makes people automically assume satin just because the fur is longer and shinier??? Plush that is


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

KathyM said:


> Yes these rats have been discussed a lot on various boards (not these specific kittens) and the general concensus is that they are not satins, they are something else. They're pretty though.
> 
> Russian coats in general look softer and plusher as they are double. None of those kittens have the sheen of a satin (which should be as striking a sheen as a satin mouse or guinea pig), which is why I was interested to see if there was a dramatic change into adulthood.
> 
> I have a feeling this is old news though as I am beginning to remember joining this very board and saying the same to the same people back then lol. Feels like eons ago! :lol2:


Yes they're hasn't really been any progress from what I gather.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think from what I've read over the last year or so (and I may be wrong, this is just a hunch I have), that people have got into the habit of calling these rats "satin" because they have a different coat to good examples of other varieties, they have no _real_ satins to compare to (as they're not bred for by anyone), and the US standard has filled the gaps wrongly for them. The problem is that russian rats tend to look more "metallic" than other varieties anyway, and their coats are different with being double, so perhaps other faults (such as a longer coat which would normally be selected away from) look different on them. :?:


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

Yes seems to make sense. I think people have a predefined image of what satin is too, and in actual fact it's not really like that.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

They are recognised, I was wrong (I think I already mentioned that?).

I've got some satin-a-likes in my soon to be hooded line. Very shiny rats, look like they've been oiled up. But I think they're just very shiny regular coats. Although my dove boy has bendy whiskers.

Puck's whiskers









Finn's (Puck's dad) odd coat:


















Wiz (Puck's sister's daughter, Finn's granddaughter)



























Angus (from same litter as Wiz)









I posted about them on a club board, the general idea was they'd need to be seen in person - tbh, I dont think satin's possible (although way back in the pedigree there is a rat or two from a breeder known for satins in their lines) so they're probably just super shiny. I hope so at least, last thing I need is another gene in that line LOL.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

I have been naming these wrong then by the looks of it and they are not satin as I have been misinforming people (not on purpose I might add).


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

ladyboid said:


> I have been naming these wrong then by the looks of it and they are not satin as I have been misinforming people (not on purpose I might add).


 
It is well known that the russian 'satin' gene is supposed to be a different gene to the normal 'satin' gene but they are also still known as a 'satin rex'. They have been since they were 'made' by the original breeder.
The rex I have no idea why that has been introduced into the name as it's not a normal rex gene either.
The argument about these varieties will go round and round forever, as it has for the last few years, I doubt it will be sorted out any time soon.

I have them and I sell them as satin rex as that is what they have been called for a good few years now so I will continue to do so.

It's also been said they may be from the 'harley' gene but again I dont' go into it far enough to find out if that is correct.
Everyone who breeds/owns satin rex's will always have others tell them it is not a satin rat. We know it's not a normal satin rat but before 'satin rats' were standardised I'm sure pbeople told those breeders they didnt' have saitn rats as well.

I also have this gene in other colours now Kelly I will continue to breed them simply because I like the variety.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

But a satin rex would be a true satin rat affected by the rex gene, wouldn't it? These rats have been nicknamed "plush", I would have thought it would be less confusing to call them that, seeing as satin already has a standard and they don't fit it? But I'm speaking as someone who is a stickler for trying to categorise rats by their real variety, so it probably frustrates me more. :lol2:


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

Its a difficult one....
do we call them what the founder called them "satin rex" ( or what we understand the founder called them) or what the fancy nickname them "plush"?

Ether way i dont charge more for them having what ever name i give them and everyone i have sold one to have been very pleased including a few people in the fancy.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I can imagine they are, they're very pretty looking rats.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

Yeah I know they have a standard....but people still have a (wrong) predefined image of Satin. If I am to assume we're going on what other small animals in similar fancies look like and how the gene affects them (and I assume we are since with these animals the genes have been worked out and bred for years) then satin is how I described it earlier. I'd have thought whiskers should be straight??

I have seen a so called "satin rex" i.e. a rat with both the satin and rex genes, but unfortunately in the phenotype the "rex" appeared to take over and nobody would even know it was satin. There is a pic on the thread someone linked to earlier also, of a "satin rex" which shows this quite well.

I personally think "plush" is something else alltogether and not anything to do with satin. I also very much doubt it has anything to do with harley - these are established in America and are quite simply, longhaired rats. They have no and shouldn't have any satin characteristics. If you're suggesting one of these things...i.e. plush or velveteen is harley in combination with satin, then i'd like to know why the two genes have not been seperated over here yet (very simple to do with test breeding) thus giving us seperate satins and harleys to work on???

LisaLQ - lovely pics. It's so hard to draw any conclusion from pics. The most convincing pics I have seen were of a young 2ish week (possibly) old litter. I can't remember what colour they were but there was light blues in there...either british or powder. And the fur actually looked somewhat transparent, and REALLY reminded me of satin mice, cavies and syrian hamsters. 

The so called "satin rex" russian blues are in my eyes poor rexes and will remain that. But people can call them what they like..nobody will know for sure. However if they're only possible in wavy fur, they're not satin by definition.


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## mattm (Jul 18, 2008)

I forgot, good to hear someone is going to do hooded's!!!

One of my favourite varieties, and hardly anyone doing them!! Have you decided what colours yet?


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

the satin rex are nothing like rex rats at all .
their coat is not curly at all.. its just looks wavy due to the way it is sitting on the rat at that time.. with a brush its flat. It just looks messy wavy due to the softness of the hair.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

KathyM said:


> I can imagine they are, they're very pretty looking rats.


Thank you : victory:.. I do wonder sometimes what people think as i am not in the fancy even though i put alot of effort into my rats and what i produce even if the names are not always correct with the current type ( although i do my best to make sure i am up to speed)


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I have my own variety name issues that are driving me bonkers too (the dreaded "Baldie") so know how you feel on that one! 

I would be interested to see these coats on rats that aren't russian based, I've never seen one. Was it you that said you had them in other varieties? Sorry, my head's pounding today so sorry if I've missed it somewhere.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

mattm said:


> I forgot, good to hear someone is going to do hooded's!!!
> 
> One of my favourite varieties, and hardly anyone doing them!! Have you decided what colours yet?


My first litter should be black, mink, russian blue, dove and possibly pearl and russian pearl in hooded and berkshire (and the possibility of some self I believe). Not particularly keen on having so many different varieties in there, so going to try and concentrate on russian blue and mink, but it really depends on what I get and temperament, as this is my solely pet line, variety isn't important - it may not even stay hooded!

Here's the previous rats (Wiz and Angus and their litter) as babies (random ages)...


























































































I could keep going, I've got hundreds of pics LOL. I think they're just shiny blacks personally though so probably best I leave it at that!


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

Aww there cute! and very shiny.




LisaLQ said:


> My first litter should be black, mink, russian blue, dove and possibly pearl and russian pearl in hooded and berkshire (and the possibility of some self I believe). Not particularly keen on having so many different varieties in there, so going to try and concentrate on russian blue and mink, but it really depends on what I get and temperament, as this is my solely pet line, variety isn't important - it may not even stay hooded!
> 
> Here's the previous rats (Wiz and Angus and their litter) as babies (random ages)...
> image
> ...


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

KathyM said:


> I have my own variety name issues that are driving me bonkers too (the dreaded "Baldie") so know how you feel on that one!
> 
> I would be interested to see these coats on rats that aren't russian based, I've never seen one. Was it you that said you had them in other varieties? Sorry, my head's pounding today so sorry if I've missed it somewhere.


 
I will try to get a photo tomorrow of my siamese.. the other colour that i have produced with this coat was british blue but i dont have her any more she was sold as a kitten to someone who bought a group of kittens from me.. i could try to find a photo of her as a baby but might take some time as i have loads of photos of rats on my pc.


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## ladyboid (Nov 25, 2007)

found some photos very quickly luckily.
first one british blue satin rex or plush what ever it turns out to be.










and in black (forgot i also produced this colour)










and the russian blue babys you have already seen .. here is one of them grown up.. 










and one of my _normal_ coat rats shiney coat for comparison.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

*eeeeeeeeeeeeek* excited
(im getting some rats of kelly soon!)


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## Lover (Apr 3, 2007)

i had one of them plush rats..this was like 3 years ago lol



















when older










shit pic cause it was a old cam phone.


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