# help with set up



## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Hi
Im quite possibly rehoming 2 young royal pythons at the weekend and if I do I need to set up there viv asap and im getting all confused as to what I need as different websites suggest different approaches.
I have a 4 by 2ft tank (was used for fish) and thats it.
I called my local pet shop and they said if I get a list of everything I need they can order from the wholesale to be delivered next day.
I have a budget of 100 pound (is this realistic?).
Can anyone give me advice on all ill need to make these guys happy.
Thanks
H


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## manda (Mar 18, 2005)

well you would need a strong lid on the tank a heat mat with a thermostat to control temps a water bowl some substrate although they can be keeped on newspaper and alike maybe a few plants (fake) and a branch or two
thats all i can think of oh and sum big feeding tongs!!!!
manda xx


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks 

This is the list of stuff a website suggest i need 

Shopping list
From this point on we will be describing equipment, including brands, that we use for our Ball Python enclosure. There are, of course, other suitable variants of what we use, but you will be looking for the equivalent (or better) of what is described here.


All prices listed below are rough ball park figures (estimated on the high side). They will vary depending on your local suppliers, choice of mail order, and how hard you look for a bargain.

• Quantity 1. 20L (20 gallon, long) glass vivarium. $50.

These measure 30" x 12" x 12". You can house a Ball Python up to 42" in length in a 20L.

The calculation is: length + width = maximum snake length.

Depending on your particular Ball Python it could spend its entire life in such an enclosure, or you may need to upgrade to a larger one in the future. We like Critter Cages as they have a very secure top (snap clips + pin) and are built to a good standard. It also has cut-outs along the top molding to allow you to run wires for the thermometer probes into the enclosure without interfering with the lid locking mechanism.

• Quantity 2. Under Tank Heating pads (UTH's). $20 each.

We like Zoo Med brand UTH's. They cost a little more than other brands but are built to a standard which appears more durable. They are readily available at most reptile pet stores and extensively online.

• Quantity 1. Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE). $20.

These are more expensive than heat bulbs, but have the advantage of lasting much longer and do not damage easily. You can break a regular heat bulb by knocking it, the filaments get brittle due to the high heat outputs. Additionally they do not emit light so will not interfere with a day/night cycle.

• Quantity 1 (each). Ceramic compatible clamp lamp and Lamp stand. $25.

It is important to get a lamp fitting with a ceramic fitting rather than plastic. The Lamp stand is required if you have nothing directly above in a suitable location to clamp your CHE lamp to.

• Quantity 2. Thermostats. $30 each.

I like to use the Alife thermostats, they are easy to use and relatively inexpensive. They are on/off type thermostats. A more optimal thermostat would be the proportional kind, however these can cost $100-200 each depending on brand and features.

• Quantity 1. Plexiglas with cut to lid size with a central hole for the CHE. $40.

The mesh in the lid will allow too much heat and humidity to escape (the big problem with a glass vivarium). The plexiglas will cover the mesh except where you mount your CHE. We found a local plastics supplier (S&W Plastics) that cut us a piece to size including a square central hole.

Alternatively, you can use a piece of heavy clear vinvyl with a hole cut, which may be available from craft or fabric stores.

• Quantity 1. Infrared Temp Gun. $20.

I find these easier to use than a thermometer with a probe, quick and easy.

• Quantity 1. Combined digital temperature and humidity gauge. $15.

The Flukers combined unit is a good, cheap, accurate choice.

• Quantity 2. Lamps. $10 each.

You will need one for the day cycle and one for the night cycle.

• Quantity 1. Daylight bulb. $3.

Should be available from your local pet store, arts and crafts store or hardware store.

• Quantity 1. Moonlight bulb. $8.

We prefer the blue moonlight bulbs to the infrared bulbs. They provide just enough light at night to be able to see inside your vivarium without disturbing the snakes natural nocturnal environment. You need a store with reptile supplies, or mail order for these.

• Quantity 2. Lamp timers, or Quantity 1. Combined day/night timer power strip. $35.

To operate your day / night cycle. Power Center manufactures a suitable power strip with four always-on outlets, two 'day' outlets and two 'night' outlets. A power strip such as this will be all you need for your vivarium power requirements.

• Quantity 2. Repti-Carpets. $5 each.

These ensure that your snake will have great difficulty in reaching the bottom glass of the vivarium by burying though the substrate and getting into direct contact with the glass the UTH's are affixed to. They are washable mats, similar to astroturf but without the leaf blades.

• Quantity 2. Hides (identical). $10 each.

We like ones that look like caves in rocks from our local PetCo.

• Quantity 1. Water bowl. $10

Again we like the rocky natural looking ones.

• Quantity (variable). Plastic plants and branches. $10-50.

From a pet store these can be expensive, you can find them cheaper at arts and craft stores.

• Quantity 1. Spray bottle. $2.

For misting during sheds to raise humidity. Available at any store selling gardening or kitchen supplies.

• Quantity (variable). Cleaning supplies and disinfectant. $10.

Orange based kitchen cleaners are a friendly cleaner to use, also we use Zoo Meds WipeOut line of disinfectant.

• Quantity (variable) Anti-bacterial hand cleanser. $2.

Snakes can carry salmonella, a good antibacterial hand cleanser is recommended after handling your snake. Also if you have multiple snakes it can prevent you passing infections from one to the other during handling.

• Quantity 1. Bag of substrate. $5.

We like shaved aspen. If you are having trouble keeping humidity up you can try cypress mulch, however for us, it raises the humidity too high.

• Quantity 1. Bag of spagnum moss. $4.

During sheds some moistened spagnum moss in the vivarium provides a good slow release of humidity between mistings. Available cheaper at gardening centers than at pet stores. Always ensure you buy the natural untreated kind. We found a 170 cubic inch bag of Mosser Lee sphagnum moss at Lowe's.

• Quantity 1. Small plastic tub. $5.

Use this to place your snake in while you are doing maintenance on your vivarium. Drill some air holes. A shoebox or sweater box size is all that is required.

• Quantity 1. Black-on-Black foam-core board. $4.

This will be used to make the vivarium more private and secure for your snake, and it will also provide a small level of insulation. You can buy this from an arts and crafts supplier, or framing store.

• Quantity 1. Double sided tape. $4.

We will be using this to secure insulation and thermostats etc. to your vivarium. This can be found in hardware stores.

• Quantity 1. Black electrical insulation tape. $2.

General purpose black plastic tape for finishing and securing wires etc.


Total for equipment and supplies: approximately $350-400 (Snake not included).

cont'd on next post
__________________
0.1 ball python (Cleo), 0.1 surinam bcc (Carmen)
1.0 cat (Nicky), 1.0 fiancé (Rick)
Grayfox Snakes (Unavailable until further notice) • Glass Viv Guide: posts 2-5

I would need a bank loan!


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## amanda75 (May 23, 2006)

Ok.... housing them on a budget...

Most important would be escape proofing and temperature, so you need to get a _very_ secure lid and correct heating (I prefer ceramics but a mat will be fine) with thermostat, and thermometers (digital more accurate if your budget will allow) for each end will be vital as you'll not have had the system running before they go in and you'll need to keep a good eye on the temps.

Other things can be done much more cheaply by _not_ involving your reptile shop.... so hides can be boxes (half a cereal box, plastic tub like mushrooms come in) small enough for them to feel secure inside.... plastic bowl/tub for the water bowl... a plastic ice cream tub with a hole cut in the lid and damp kitchen towel inside for a moist hide.... newspaper or kitchen towel for substrate. They don't like open space in the viv, but if plastic plants are out of your short term budget, scrunched up newspaper fills the space and provides cover that they're more than happy crawling through/under. They'd also like a branch to climb on but again this isn't vital and can wait.

Obviously all these can be replaced with more aesthetically pleasing items once you have money available. This rather spartan setup will also help you keep an eye out for mites etc. during their initial quarantine period.


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Cheers everyone

Well, on my list so far I have

Feeding tongues
2x water bowl (1 for bathing)
11 ltrs coconut bark
2x digi thermonitors
17x11 heat matt
2x caves/hides

This takes me up to about 37 pound, leaving money for more things

Husband just called and told me the tank has a light attached already altough i have no idea if this would be suitable.


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## Ceiron (May 19, 2005)

im going to be hated now but imo your shouldnt be rehomin the royals if you havent already got a suitable setup and dont know what you need.

royals arent an easy species to keep if you not confident and tbh you dont sound confident.

also you cant do reptiles on a budget, it doesnt work.

also royals are easily stressed, this is why glass tanks ie fish tanks are not suitable. also housign two royals togehter who are both resuces is unwise.

thye both need isolation until you know htyeare both healthy, parasite free, disease free and feeding suitably.

heard a bulb mentioned which just screams to me ungarded light bulb as fish tanks dont readily take light bulb guards and which is a huge no no.

two hides for 2 royals is unrealsitic, you want 4 - 5.

that wya they eahc have their own hide in hot and cool end.
#
theres no mention at all of a themrostat which is an essential.

also i do not like or condone heatmats used in tanks or under glass tanks.

also not esp useful for royals imo.

theres no mention of a seperate feeding box so can feed each snake individually either.

i wouldnt be using any substrate until i after the snakes have passed isolation as its hard to montior them.

prolly other stuff i havent covered.

now you can hate me if you want but im just being honest and looking out for the animals.


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks for your opinion. 
But if your looking out for the animals interests surly there better comming to me then having done to them what ever she's planning if there not rehomed this week.
Ive taken on board everything you have said.
As for confidence I dont understand how I can sound unconfident??? 
Im trying to get all sources of info I need to be the best owner I possibly can. It is rush I know, but its the best solution I can see for the snakes at the moment.
Ive taken onboard about the fish tank light and will remove this. I will be sure to get a light with a guard.
I have owned reptiles many years ago, including geckos and a corn snake so im not a complete novice, just need to get back in the swing.
Thankyou for your comments, they were helpfull.


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

This what I'd do:

Housing x2 £19.98just have to drill/melt some holes around the sides for ventilation)
http://www.staples.co.uk/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=,&webid=50LC&affixedcode=WW

Thermostat £19.95:
http://www.camzoo.co.uk/pd-1167048544.htm?categoryId=12

Heat mat £16.87:
http://www.camzoo.co.uk/pd-1638155693.htm?categoryId=15

Thermometer £8.99ideally two of these, but one would do for now as the set ups will be identical)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=28841&criteria=thermometer&doy=11m9

Water bowls - a couple of ceramic dog/cat bowls (about £5 each) but any stable container would do.

Hides - 4 x upturned plastic plant pots with access holes cut into the edge - cost £2 max.

Substrate - newspaper - free!

Total: less than £80 so you'd have some left for food.

Sit the boxes side by side on the heatmat with the probe taped directly onto the mat between the boxes. As long as they're in a sheltered spot (not too draughty) you should get the required temps ok.

I used Camzoo for the links because they're post free - if you can get a Habistat matstat locally that'll do just as well.

You've got no real chance of heating the fish tank sufficiently with heatmats alone, any heat will just go straight out of the top of the tank, and it'll cost a lot more and be more hassle to set up a ceramic in there (which still may not be too effective at reaching the desired temps). 
A heat mat underneath may crack the glass and if used inside the tank the snakes would be at risk of burns. 
You've also got the problem of making it escape proof. Even then it still wouldn't be ideal as they'd both be in together. And being surrounded by glass they'll be insecure and you could have feeding probs.

Using the really useful boxes they'll be separate, they'll feel more secure as the boxes are semi-opaque and you'll get the required temps safely - mid to high 80'sF at the warm end.

And you could get some fish!

Hope this has been some help,

Mark.


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Yes very helpfull
Thanks


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## scarlettvegetable (Jan 4, 2006)

Hmmm, I dont like using glass tanks for any reptiles really. They dont tend to heat up as well and dont have very good ventilation. I would say though if you want to avoid buying vivs that Really Useful Boxes are really....useful for snakes. I have got a baby royal in a 9L and a sub adult in a 50L and they work fantastically well. They are very happy in these, both feed without problems, even though the baby was supposedly a pants feeder.

Heres a pic of my subadult box:










The box the snake is in is over the heat mat, the box with the white lid is the moist hide, the piece of wood at the back actually doubles as a hide underneath it. Some people might say that there arent enough hides in there but this is the setup that has worked for me. My particular royal seems to get upset with too much decor and doesnt feed very well. He feeds every week without fail with this setup, and sheds perfectly.

On the plus side, the 9L box my baby is in cost £4.99 and the 50L one above was £9.99, so they are far from expensive :lol:

Hope that has helped a little :lol:


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## scarlettvegetable (Jan 4, 2006)

And I just realised they have already been mentioned....


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks
Do i get these from the pet shop?


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

You can get them online, these are the cheapest i found for shipping charges, five quid or so on orders under £35:

http://www.ryman.co.uk/Storage-boxes-64.asp


You can get them in-store at Staples, Rymans, WH Smith - anywhere that does stationery or office supplies is worth a go.

You can use other plastic storage boxes but I've not found any with lids that are as secure as the really usefuls. You can get other types cheaper but you'd have to tape down the lids to make them secure.


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## scarlettvegetable (Jan 4, 2006)

Yeah these boxes are great. Iv had no problems with them at all. I got all mine from Staples, and have to get a few more soon.

The lids are great. Iv not had anyone escape from them, I have used other storage boxes too and well, have had escapes.....:lol:


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks guys


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## Ceiron (May 19, 2005)

your lack of certainity in chosing setups etc ...

just soudns unconfident.

what marks provided looks a good route to go.

can mess about with hides etc using boxes, hides, plant pots and anythign they can hide in basically.

soz bot above psot being bit unhelpful in regards to setups, had to go out and stuff.


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## missbehavin (Sep 8, 2006)

Is sphagnum moss ok for young royals, was planning on putting it in a container in its tub?


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## mark67123 (Jun 11, 2006)

Sphagnum moss is ideal for a humid hide. Be careful if you're getting it from a garden centre though as I believe some brands may be unsuitable - not sure which ones though. 
If it's coming from a reptile/pet shop it should be ok, but whatever type it is, give it a good rinse before you use it.

I only put a humid hide in for mine when it's in shed. If you keep it in the tub all the time it may push the humidity up too high. The day to day humidity needs to be around 60% - not much above what it is normally in the UK - so just having the water bowl in the tub will probably be enough, especially as the tub is heated from below. 
No way to measure humidity (as far as I know) without a hygrometer, but if you get condensation in the tub then the humidity is too high so you'd need to either remove the humid hide if it's in there, move the water bowl further away from the heat or make more vent holes.

Regards,

Mark.


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