# Turtles sightings agen



## Long way down (Jul 29, 2009)

Hi all, been looking out for those turtles from kingsbury water park, i was their the other day, and in the same place was the turtle, not just one but two, one was a bit smaller. I think they could be breeding in this climate, will get a decent photo next time, tryed using phone but was naff


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## MattClare (Oct 31, 2009)

They cant breed in our climate as its nowhere near hot enough, for long enough for the eggs to incubate.


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## angelserz (Apr 15, 2010)

Long way down said:


> Hi all, been looking out for those turtles from kingsbury water park, i was their the other day, and in the same place was the turtle, not just one but two, one was a bit smaller. I think they could be breeding in this climate, will get a decent photo next time, tryed using phone but was naff


Yay!! Deffo pics next time!!! and yeah, as clare said the weather is no hot enough for long enough for eggs to hatch.


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

angelserz said:


> Yay!! Deffo pics next time!!! and yeah, as clare said the weather is no hot enough for long enough for eggs to hatch.


 that doesn't mean they won't though it only means that they haven't yet, only takes one year for the temps to stay high enough


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## angelserz (Apr 15, 2010)

tomwilson said:


> that doesn't mean they won't though it only means that they haven't yet, only takes one year for the temps to stay high enough


This is true...


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Clarebear said:


> They cant breed in our climate as its nowhere near hot enough, for long enough for the eggs to incubate.


They do breed, Eggs have been found, The eggs just haven't hatched to anyones knowledge as of yet. So all it would take is a good wheathered year then you get babys. And if in the last 10 years UK wheather has been getting warmer, It's only a matter of time.

In a set of pits near me, I have seen one little tiny baby about 7 years ago, know it may have been a new release, Or it could have been a UK born baby.


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

The will breed and the eggs will *usually* not hatch....


Every few years a clutch will make it and slowly they will learn and adapt to our climate, eventually reproducing successfully almost every year....


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

bobby said:


> The will breed and the eggs will *usually* not hatch....
> 
> 
> Every few years a clutch will make it and slowly they will learn and adapt to our climate, eventually reproducing successfully almost every year....


Eggs take 100- 120 days to hatch at 80 degrees F. That's a constant 80 degrees F for nearly four months. 
I can't see the UK ever having the right conditions to hatch eggs in the wild.

Natrix


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Natrix said:


> Eggs take 100- 120 days to hatch at 80 degrees F. That's a constant 80 degrees F for nearly four months.
> I can't see the UK ever having the right conditions to hatch eggs in the wild.
> 
> Natrix


Fisherman often drag a swim(Pulling water weeds/plants out of a area of water), It's can gets left on the bank side in mass pile sometimes. Any chance of turtles learning to use this, As the vegetation rots would it be any good for incubating the turtle eggs ? holding the temperure.


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

gazz said:


> Fisherman often drag a swim(Pulling water weeds/plants out of a area of water), It's can gets left on the bank side in mass pile sometimes. Any chance of turtles learning to use this, As the vegetation rots would it be any good for incubating the turtle eggs ? holding the temperure.


As a gardener I can tell you that those piles of rotting weed get too hot to begin with and are only at the right temps for a short period before they begin to cool down to far. Grass snakes use them but their eggs hatch in around five to six weeks to take advantage of the short period of correct warmth.
It's the incubation time that stops Terrapins breeding. Our native species either produce live young or have a short incubation time for their eggs. 
Chelonia all have lengthy incubation times meaning that any good weather runs out before the eggs can hatch.
Unless we see a major climate change (which isn't going to happen) we won't be seeing wild hatched baby terrapins any time soon.

Natrix


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

> They do breed, Eggs have been found,


That's not evidence of breeding though, it's just evidence of eggs having been laid which is not the same thing! If the eggs haven't hatched, and they won't because it doesn't stay warm enough for long enough to incubate them, then the turts haven't actually _bred_ have they? 

There's a big difference between laying eggs and them actually hatching to produce live baby turts, as anyone who's ever bred turts will tell you. Mine lay eggs quite regularly but I've only ever successfully hatched two, and that's with the use of a temperature and humidity controlled incubator.

Besides which female turts often lay infertile eggs without having mated, so any eggs found may not even have been viable in the first place


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## Dazla (Dec 16, 2009)

not seen a live 1 but i found a dead red necked turtle in West Park in Wolverhampton. its in my garden atm decomposing cuz i want the shell but the skin has gone all leathery and too tough for the maggots, i dont realy want to soak it in water (macerate it) like i do with all my other animal finds incase the shell goes soft and brittle.


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## hairdye (Jun 8, 2010)

They will breed in the uk and as some of the other replies state the weather here is not hot enough. But many of you will have seen the film Jurassic park and the famous saying "life finds a way". I believe these turtles will one day evolve so that they can lay eggs that will hatch at a lower temperature in the UK.
cheers


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## kettykev (May 15, 2009)

How can they evolve if they do not breed?


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

kettykev said:


> How can they evolve if they do not breed?


hahaha, class :2thumb:


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## hairdye (Jun 8, 2010)

hahahaha yeah i see what you mean. What i meant was if these animals keep trying to breed in the UK i do believe that a change will happen with the temperature needed to hatch the eggs . Again i might be wrong but im sure i read that grass snake eggs will hatch at only a 70 degree heat even though an 82 degree heat is better for a shorter incubation period. Terrapins will hatch at between 80 and 88 degrees so i do think this could still be possible. These creatures live for around 15 to 20 years maybe more in an ideal environment so i still think they will find a way to have eggs that need a lower temperature to incubate.
another thought is when the ringneck parrakeet escaped into the wild of the uk they said they couldnt survive the cold of our country and wouldnt be able to breed , how wrong were they ? there are now thriving populations throughout areas of the uk. 
How can one rabbit survive myxomatosis yet it can kill all the others in the area. As i said i do believe nature finds a way in the end. 
cheers


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

No....

The temperature required to hatch an egg wont change in just one generation...

What they may do is find an area thats a little warmer....

Sewage pipes are pretty warm, as are some old birdwatching huts....


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## hairdye (Jun 8, 2010)

Only time can tell what will happen with this one. 
As someone said earlier in the post if we had a warm summer then perhaps they could. 
I know there have been genuine reports of the american bullfrog breeding wild in the UK which they said could never happen because of the temperature required but they did on at least two occasions due to hot summers.
Anyway has anyone seen my other post about wanting to photograph reptiles ? i really do need help finding genuine locations of where this is possible . Any help please.
Cheers


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## bobby (Sep 26, 2006)

hairdye said:


> Only time can tell what will happen with this one.
> As someone said earlier in the post if we had a warm summer then perhaps they could.
> I know there have been genuine reports of the american bullfrog breeding wild in the UK which they said could never happen because of the temperature required but they did on at least two occasions due to hot summers.
> Anyway has anyone seen my other post about wanting to photograph reptiles ? i really do need help finding genuine locations of where this is possible . Any help please.
> Cheers


Dunno where you are mate but west highland line :whistling2:


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## hairdye (Jun 8, 2010)

I live near Pontefract in West Yorkshire. The problem is i dont know if there are any slow worms or grass snakes im my area i have done loads of walking and searching but not had any luck yet. 
Wanting to photograph them isnt as easy as i thought it would be especially as i havent even found any yet!.
Just thought someone on here might know of some areas where i live or even where i work in Newark Notts. 
Cheers


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## tomwilson (Feb 27, 2010)

hairdye said:


> I live near Pontefract in West Yorkshire. The problem is i dont know if there are any slow worms or grass snakes im my area i have done loads of walking and searching but not had any luck yet.
> Wanting to photograph them isnt as easy as i thought it would be especially as i havent even found any yet!.
> Just thought someone on here might know of some areas where i live or even where i work in Newark Notts.
> Cheers


 people are highly reluctant to give out sites on a public forum as there are those who go out and collect the wildlife there, good luck though


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## hairdye (Jun 8, 2010)

yes fair point and i totally understand this. 
I am a genuine person and love wildlife of any form it has only been this year that i decided to try and photograph reptiles. My work involves loads of environmental schemes erecting bird boxes ,bat boxes, GCN ponds, but i never normally get the chance to go back and see what has happened on the sites we have worked. 
I work in the east midlands which is a fair way from where i live so it doesnt leave a lot of time to stay at the end of the day to do any searching .
If anyone does know of any areas near where i live please feel free to email me and i promise to keep any locations secret. 
Regards
Wayne


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## Adam98150 (Jan 12, 2009)

hairdye said:


> I live near Pontefract in West Yorkshire. The problem is i dont know if there are any slow worms or grass snakes im my area i have done loads of walking and searching but not had any luck yet.
> Wanting to photograph them isnt as easy as i thought it would be especially as i havent even found any yet!.
> Just thought someone on here might know of some areas where i live or even where i work in Newark Notts.
> Cheers


West Yorkshire? Lived here 18 years and not spotted a single rep. This place is sh*** for wildlife.


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

hairdye said:


> hahahaha yeah i see what you mean. What i meant was if these animals keep trying to breed in the UK i do believe that a change will happen with the temperature needed to hatch the eggs . Again i might be wrong but im sure i read that grass snake eggs will hatch at only a 70 degree heat even though an 82 degree heat is better for a shorter incubation period. Terrapins will hatch at between 80 and 88 degrees so i do think this could still be possible. These creatures live for around 15 to 20 years maybe more in an ideal environment so i still think they will find a way to have eggs that need a lower temperature to incubate.
> another thought is when the ringneck parrakeet escaped into the wild of the uk they said they couldnt survive the cold of our country and wouldnt be able to breed , how wrong were they ? there are now thriving populations throughout areas of the uk.
> How can one rabbit survive myxomatosis yet it can kill all the others in the area. As i said i do believe nature finds a way in the end.
> cheers


Sorry hairdye but I think you are putting to much faith in mother nature to just change things to suit.

Terrapins would need to completely reorganise there breeding cycle to even come close to breeding in the UK. It’s not just the temperatures that would need to change but the length of time between mating and laying, the length of time their eggs take to hatch and where they put them to hatch. 
Compared to terrapins, grass snakes have a much shorter gestation period, a much shorter hatching time and they lay their eggs in piles of rotting vegetation to help maintain the 75F temperature they need. This is not just going to happen to terrapins. It would take several generations to even begin the process of change and many dozens of generations to refine it. Under the current conditions they can’t even manage the next generation.

Ringneck parrakeet’s are a totally different situation. Regardless of what people thought they could survive in the wild and being both warm blooded and providers of parental care for their young meant that if the adults survived they could also breed and ost importantly raise their young.

Rabbits surviving mixy is an immunity thing. Mixy is a man made virus designed to mutate to prevent rabbits developing permanent immunity to it. Some rabbits manage to develop immunity to a particular strain of Mixy but the next time it mutates and goes around again they are just as likely to succumb to it as their fellow rabbits but others in the group will develop immunity to the next strain and manage to survive and keep the populations going. All animals can develop immunity to viruses it’s what stops us from all dying every time some one sneezes and is very different to evolving a whole new life style and breeding strategy. 

Sorry to be the bubble burster but it's just to big an ask.

Natrix


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## shakibai (May 21, 2010)

hairdye said:


> another thought is when the ringneck parrakeet escaped into the wild of the uk they said they couldnt survive the cold of our country and wouldnt be able to breed , how wrong were they ? there are now thriving populations throughout areas of the uk.


How true. 
I was visiting my dad in london on monday and we were in his garden talking to his neighbour when 3 birds flew down, 2 landed on the fence and 1 sat on the shed roof, when I realised they was not the normal garden birds that i'm used to seeing, I was gobsmacked :mf_dribble:, I couldn't believe I was seeing a parrakeet, or 3 to be precise, sitting in my dad's garden, after a few minuets they all flew off squawking, my dad and his neighbour must of seen the look on my face and both laughed, they said its a normal every day thing for the parrakeets to land in the gardens, they said they have counted upto 7 at any one time :gasp:


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