# why DWA



## jonemptage (Jul 29, 2007)

just wondering Why would someone get a DWA I mean yes rattlers are stunning but i cant see why you would get a pet that would pose a threat to your life


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

Hmmm , well they are not pets really are they.

I don't understand it either - i like nothing more than to let my corns or royal out for a hold.


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## Grakky (Dec 4, 2007)

LOL I was going to post a thread like this at some point, just wondering what it is that make people keep DWA

sure the animals are stunning, but I just can't understand it.


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

How many people are killed annually by dogs in the uk? a lot more than snakes i can tell ya.


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> How many people are killed annually by dogs in the uk? a lot more than snakes i can tell ya.


was just about to say something like that


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> How many people are killed annually by dogs in the uk? a lot more than snakes i can tell ya.


Yeah but you can touch a dog, hold them, walk them - you know come in to contact with them.

Like to see somone cuddle a rattler :lol2:


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I hardly handle any of my snakes. its the same with venomous really. you dont actually handle it per se'


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

Grakky said:


> the animals are stunning


you need more reason that this?


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

Hmmm why have a motorbike or fast car? hmm or even go out and get a big dog???

I think you need to look deeper into this before posting such questions!


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

stephenie191 said:


> Yeah but you can touch a dog, hold them, walk them - you know come in to contact with them.
> 
> Like to see somone cuddle a rattler :lol2:


do you walk your land snails


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> Hmmm why have a motorbike or fast car? hmm or even go out and get a big dog???
> 
> I think you need to look deeper into this before posting such questions!


I don't think the op or anyone is against it.


- so it's the thrill of it? Do you think?

As for a big dog - well thats nothing like a DWA - most are big softy's who love company.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

I think you will find more people are savaged by big dogs and even killed in the UK than any DWA animals.

and i dont think any serious keeper keeps any DWA animlas just because of the thrill


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## Grakky (Dec 4, 2007)

Rain said:


> you need more reason that this?


 
personally I like the knowledge that if one of my snakes escaped, I don't have to worry about them being able to kill me (yes I know it's unlikely but shush) in my sleep with a simple nip, or cause great pain.

I also like to be able to handle my snakes, I don't do it often, but it's nice to have the oppurtunity!

Also if I needed to check them for something, a burn, or mites, or needed to treat them for an injury etc


Actually how do DWA treat their animals for stuff like this, i.e mites?

Can't exactly put your hand close and wipe 'em down with frontline can you?


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> I think you will find more people are savaged by big dogs and even killed in the UK than any DWA animals.
> 
> and i dont think any serious keeper keeps any DWA animlas just because of the thrill


You described them like having a motor bike or fast car so i thought thats what you meant.

As for comparing them to big dogs - like i said Totally differn't.

If DWA'S were left to roam and be handled they would kill people too just like the vishious dogs.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> Hmmm why have a motorbike or fast car? hmm or even go out and get a big dog???
> 
> I think you need to look deeper into this before posting such questions!


 
beat me to it... i was going to say why have a car....:crazy:


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

i think pythondave was in reference to being killed on a fast bike or car. the likey hood is remarkably high, yet every year more are made and sold.

As for how DWAs would be handled for things like mites, I'd imagine (not having anything DWA) that it would be done with capture tubes, and a great deal of care.


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

Rain said:


> i think pythondave was in reference to being killed on a fast bike or car. the likey hood is remarkably high, yet every year more are made and sold.
> 
> As for how DWAs would be handled for things like mites, I'd imagine (not having anything DWA) that it would be done with capture tubes, and a great deal of care.


I'm thinking DWA'S are kind like some fish. 

They look amazing i nthe set-up, they are a challange to keep and good to watch?

Thats my take on it.

Would be great if somone who kept DWA'S could shed some light on why they keep them


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

But we dont let them roam and thats why we have inspeactions to meet certain standards so they dont escape.

and yes you could say that about anything dangerous why why why?

but we still do it and its up to us (those with keen interests) to ensure we do everything to remain safe and to keep others safe


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

pythondave82 said:


> But we dont let them roam and thats why we have inspeactions to meet certain standards so they dont escape.
> 
> and yes you could say that about anything dangerous why why why?
> 
> but we still do it and its up to us (those with keen interests) to ensure we do everything to remain safe and to keep others safe


LOL - I wasn't saying you let them roam.

But you said big dogs cause more deaths - and i said if DWA'S where left to roam they would cause deaths too .

In other words, if dangerous dogs where locked up there wouldn't be as many deaths.

I think it's unfair to just say big dogs in general as most are not the kind to attack people. : victory:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

some of the most beautiful snakes around are DWA, its a challenge to work with them and they are amazing creatures.


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Luton Reptile Rescue said:


> How many people are killed annually by dogs in the uk? a lot more than snakes i can tell ya.


 
But hardly any number of the population keep DWA whereas there are millions of Dogs kept so not a very convincing argument tbh.
Every single person I know personally who keeps DWA has been envenomated at some point,some not seriously and some to the point of losing digits or loss of use of certain extremities.The animals are stunning,certainly,and if somone knows the risks fully,complies to the laws and to safe DWA practices then I think its their choice,but personally I would think its a silly risk to take just because they look pretty.


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

barrym said:


> But hardly any number of the population keep DWA whereas there are millions of Dgos kept so not a very convincing argument tbh.


Thanks - thats what i was trying to say.

Dogs are totally differn't - they don't have to be locked up and never touched.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

barrym said:


> But hardly any number of the population keep DWA whereas there are millions of Dogs kept so not a very convincing argument tbh.
> Every single person I know personally who keeps DWA has been envenomated at some point,some not seriously and some to the point of losing digits or loss of use of certain extremities.The animals are stunning,certainly,and if somone knows the risks fully,complies to the laws and to safe DWA practices then I think its their choice,but personally I would think its a silly risk to take just because they look pretty.


pretty much everyone I know that keeps has never been envenomated and the majority have years or experience in some cases 20 years+, people that dont keep see it as a riskier hobby than it is, yes its dangerous im not saying that but as has been said so's riding a motorbike I feel safer working with my hots than I have on a motorbike thats for sure, but with all the correct care taken then its safer than alot of people would believe.


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

imo you dont have to hold or touch somthing to enjoy and find somthing interesting


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

SiUK said:


> pretty much everyone I know that keeps has never been envenomated and the majority have years or experience in some cases 20 years+, people that dont keep see it as a riskier hobby than it is, yes its dangerous im not saying that but as has been said so's riding a motorbike I feel safer working with my hots than I have on a motorbike thats for sure, but with all the correct care taken then its safer than alot of people would believe.


As I said,maybe not too clearly,I have nothing against the keeping of DWA,I think its a fascinating hobby,but PERSONALLY its not for me.I know one guy,very well known in the hobby,well established shop for over 20 years etc,regarded as a very competent hot keeper who lost a finger from being envenomated by a shed fang left in substrate!Another who was tagged by a green mamba whose heart stopped 3 times that very day and its a miracle he's still here.
I certainly agree its actually a lot safer than people would percieve,but its still not a safe thing to be involved with.


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

weelad said:


> imo you dont have to hold or touch somthing to enjoy and find somthing interesting


Yeah, i think DWA are kinda like the prettier fish you can get.

Good to look at and take care of : victory:


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

stephenie191 said:


> Yeah, i think DWA are kinda like the prettier fish you can get.
> 
> Good to look at and take care of : victory:


Absolutely,thats a good comparison I think,except most fish dont kill you if you make a mistake.I dont want to create the impression that I am against keeping hots,I am not at all,I just wouldn't do so myself.I am not sure the UK is ideally set up for the victims of hot bites either,I am not sure but I think most of the anti-venom available is held in Liverpool,not too much use to those of us on the south coast:lol2:


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah alot of the antivenom is kept at Liverpool but theres also stocks at London poisons unit, still I see what you mean, theres definately risks, your mate with the green mamba was hell of an unlucky really, makes you think though.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

to the OP:

ask this question again when you consider/realise that the majority of reptile species are not "pets"

Venomous are not kept as "pets"

When you get this, you'll get why


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Dont think i would get a DWA for hot snakes, but i would get one for a caiman. Because....you can by snakes that dont put your life in danger without a DWAL, but you cant realy buy friendly none DWAL caiman....if that make sence to you?

I can understand hots look amazing, amazing colours, lime greens etc.


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## Issa (Oct 13, 2006)

Theres not just venomous snakes on DWA, quite a few other things (that some would argue shouldn't be on there) are also included.


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

and dave is right, more people are killed by dogs, or horses in the UK than you'd think.


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## snakelover (Dec 17, 2006)

Issa yes i know  allot of mammals are....most things considered dangerouse or wild really. I have a list on the comp of animals under DWA.

Mason : but if you think how many people have dogs and horse in the uk, millions, i would say 1000-20000 have DWA snakes, so, maybe if they were on the same scale ie same amount of hot snakes as dogs, then i think many more people would be killed, damaged by hot snakes? I made the range so big because i have no idea of how many people keep hots in the uk.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

not even 1000 people in the uk with hots, I wouldnt imagine.


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

Why do people keep fish? It's the same type of question, you can't handle fish. Hots are a different "branch" on the "tree" of herp keeping. You could ask the question of why people keep giant snakes which can just as easily kill or seriously injure the owner. It isn't about the "buzz" of keeping such animals or the "hey look how tough/cool/impressive I am in control of these dangerous animals" it's about a genuine desire to maintain and learn about the unique habits and lifestyles of these animals. Why do you keep corns/kings/Royals?
Maintained properly, and treated with the respect they need, hots should present no more threat to your safety than your king/corn/royal, it's when people get complacent, lazy or distracted that problems can occur. Granted, if something goes wrong it will get bad, but then no-one should ever get a snake with the intention of letting it bite them, no matter how innocuous it may be. That's my two penn'orth worth anyway:blahblah:


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

SiUK said:


> not even 1000 people in the uk with hots, I wouldnt imagine.


I'd imagine the number is higher than that.


When I hear of a delivery of young king cobra delivery, of around 50 snakes, It sold out quite quickly.


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

SiUK said:


> not even 1000 people in the uk with hots, I wouldnt imagine.


 
your correct si, less than 1000 in the UK


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

pythondave82 said:


> your correct si, less than 1000 in the UK


then take into the consideration the number of keepers who keep hots, and are well respected but do not have a DWA i know of a few. In fact i know lot more who keep hots without a dwa then i do with them. 

I have alot of respect for good hot keepers, most of those with alot of knowledge actually rarly have DWA's from my experiance. 

i'd said there was around 1000 in the uk taken into consideration both legal and illigal keepers, maybe a little more.


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## nuggett5 (Sep 14, 2007)

I ges dwa is kinda like tropical fish.they look nice. I went to hamm and went in the dwa room. the snakes in there were some of the best looking i have seen. so just think, say a green mamba in a tropical tank with green plants all over the viv and logs ect. It would look cool!


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

Spikebrit said:


> then take into the consideration the number of keepers who keep hots, and are well respected but do not have a DWA i know of a few. In fact i know lot more who keep hots without a dwa then i do with them.
> 
> I have alot of respect for good hot keepers, most of those with alot of knowledge actually rarly have DWA's from my experiance.
> 
> i'd said there was around 1000 in the uk taken into consideration both legal and illigal keepers, maybe a little more.


 ooooo tut tut lol


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

weelad said:


> ooooo tut tut lol


the current dwa system needs some huge improvements done to it before i see it as being any good. in theory its a really goos system for montering the dangersious animals around the uk. But due to it being independly enforced by various councils it has a huge downful and thats not even getting into whats included on the list.


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

Why DWA?.....Why big Constrictors?... they can kill you just as quickly


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## Barry.M (May 19, 2006)

Declan123 said:


> Why DWA?.....Why big Constrictors?... they can kill you just as quickly


If a large constrictor kills you it would be a lot faster than a venomous snake!:lol2:


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## stuartdouglas (Mar 5, 2008)

It's an outdated, dictatorial system that's open to exploitation by individual councils to a) screw as much money out of potential hot owners as they can and/or b) make it so difficult to get a license that you either give up or just don't bother applying for one in the first place. Originally it was designed to deter people who just bought animals such as big cats on a whim and then either released them when they got too much to handle or kept them in appalling conditions. However, it's done nothing to deter dog owners who buy potentially dangerous breeds on a whim and then keep them in appalling conditions as well. If they are truly trying to protect the public from harm from dangerous herps and inverts, why aren't retics, afrocks, burmese, amethystines, and anacondas on the list? The daft thing is, if I had the money, I could go out and buy a bloody Komodo Dragon, which would likely eat me and my family, but I can't have a sodding 4" long scorpion which, in 97% of all envenomations, has only produced localised symptoms. :censor::censor::censor: Government!!!! Grrr..............ok, soapbox away now!


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

barrym said:


> If a large constrictor kills you it would be a lot faster than a venomous snake!:lol2:


Exactly?...doesnt that make them more More Dangerous


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

stephenie191 said:


> Yeah but you can touch a dog, hold them, walk them - you know come in to contact with them.
> 
> Like to see somone cuddle a rattler :lol2:


And yet, you can still be mauled to death by a dog


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## Declan123 (Dec 29, 2007)

More people both Adult and Children get bitten and killed by dogs...in Most cases, they are the little dogs that yap and bite out of no reason... they can cause damage to any person, whether it being a adult or a child...
But how many times have you heard that a Venomous Snake is on the loose?.. (not an adder) and how many people a year get tagged by them??...

In a short point, it IS EXTREMLY UNLIKELY to get bitten by a Venomous snake, people who keep them usually have had good Training and know what to do in an Emergency...
People who keep them ONLY put their own lives in Danger....No one eles...

(enough Said from me)


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## Nbrambles (Mar 20, 2008)

I have read through the previous pages and would anyone agree that for the people who have a dwa licnse you wouldnt see your animals as pets... 
And you would not get one unless you were experinced or knew what you were doing. I would see it more as a hobby rather than keping a pet like a hamster or dog.


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## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Mason said:


> to the OP:
> 
> ask this question again when you consider/realise that the majority of reptile species are not "pets"
> 
> ...


Agree totally with this.

Also, steph, if DWA animals would kill people when roaming free, why in countries with 'wild' DWA animals, asutralia for example, are there also more deaths relating to dog attacks than there are venomation related deaths, bear in mind if you look on charts/tables of the 'deadliest' animals in the world, 80% are in Australia.


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## 400runner (May 15, 2006)

i have just started my venomous training and for me its the fact that venomous snakes represent the pinnacle of snake keeping. the skills you need to have to be able to do it successfully really set you among the elite of the reptile world and this is somewhere i would like to be. most of my life so far has been spent striving for excellence in my sport and i want my reptile keeping to be no different.
it also helps that i personally feel that the viperidae and elapidae groups hold the most stunning snakes in the world plus its an added bonus that the snakes are much much cheaper in relation to high end non venomous!
from the one handling session i've done so far i can tell you it is an incredible feeling to be working with such amazing creatures and one i can't say i've experienced with any of my non venomous snakes (but i still love them anyway)


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

tbh I have no complaints about the licensing in my area, it was reasonalbly priced, not impossible to achieve the standard, the vet that came had experience in DWA licensing, the only thing that is a bit hectic is the only way I can undate my license is for the vet to come again, but in general it all runs pretty smoothly.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

Young_Gun said:


> Agree totally with this.
> 
> Also, steph, if DWA animals would kill people when roaming free, why in countries with 'wild' DWA animals, asutralia for example, are there also more deaths relating to dog attacks than there are venomation related deaths, bear in mind if you look on charts/tables of the 'deadliest' animals in the world, 80% are in Australia.


they do have a fair few bites, but their hospitals are well prepared and excellent at treatment they have to be with that many deadly elapids:lol2:


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## rob-stl-07 (Jun 3, 2007)

main reason why i love DWA and will hope to keep em when old enough is that:

they're stunning
different
dangerous-the adrenaline i love about them.


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## mark elliott (Feb 5, 2007)

no dis-respect to anyone intended here but all i can say is if you are really interested in dwa animals then you obviously understand your reasons for wanting them and it kind of a personal thing and individual so will be different to different people. probably not makin any sence here but i have very genuine reasons for starting to collect venomous snakes and i can see and understand a side of them that some people cant i suppose


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