# New to fishkeeping, does this look ok for a first tropical tank plan?



## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Hey, 7 years after moving out of my parents, I've finally begun sorting out a fish tank, which was one of the first things I'd originally planned to get  The main kick to get stuff going was getting offered a 2nd hand tank if i could collect it that was otherwise going to be smashed up and thrown out as the previous owner had had it sitting in a spare room empty with no other way to be rid of it. So now myself and my wife have spent a few months planning what will go in it.

I've just put it out to test it still holds water, which is looking very promising and tried some spare mopani in there that will form most of the decor.


The tank is 30" long, 14" wide, and 18" high, though the water depth will be around 15", so the tank is a smidge over 100L altogether.

I've seen fluval U3/U4 internal filters are rated up to 150L/240L filtration, and we already have a water heater that seems to work fine that came with it. Would it be overkill to use the U4? We set up our garden pond and I kept reading 'there's no such thing as too much filtration' but wasn't sure if the same thing applied on a smaller scale.

We plan to have a basic planted setup, some java moss and underwater grass type plants. The hood for the tank has a UV fitting and we will refresh the tube and I'll fit a better reflector, as it's currently just silver taped. Also I'll add some kind of background to the back and left walls, though undecided whether to go with a scene type one or just some black film as I need some to finish of some exo-terra rep tanks anyway.

As for inhabitants we plan to eventually have the following:-
10x Celestial pearl danios
10x Red cherry shrimp
10x Neon tetras
4x Peppered cory
3x Dwarf gourami (1 male, 2 females)

We'll be starting out with 5 each of danios and shrimp to get the tank settled as they seem to be the hardiest of the species (may swap the pearls for zebras but the wife is set on pearls) and slowly add the rest over a few months.

We've done our research on each species, and used the AqAdvisor website to work out what and how much to put in there. According to that we'd end up at about 80% of the tanks maximum capacity of fish with about 150% of the filtration we need. It advises about a 30% weekly water change. I wanted to get opinions from people that have experience rather than just a web form, and as a lot of our fish will come from the local [email protected] due to a severe lack of local fish shops (there is one but they have a very small selection and not many are fish we want) I don't hold out a lot of hope of getting helpful advice there. Does this seem like too many species/individual fish for this size tank? Are there going to be problems with any of the combinations of inhabitants? Want to find any flaws with our plan before we start killing fish with noobish mistakes like overstocking or infighting.

Many thanks in advance for any help given, and for reading everything, even if you can't offer any advice.

I've included the aqadvisor link to the setup below but think I've covered everything anyway.

AqAdvisor plan


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## cjd12345 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sounds like you have done a good amount of planning. If Aqadvisor doesn't highlight any problems with your proposed occupants I'd expect them to be fine. Regarding the filter, what filter did you specify when you ran the figures in Aqadvisor? If the U4, then go for the U4. If you ran the figures with the smaller filter I'd bump up to the U4, more filtration is usually a good thing. Check the size of the filter though, the U4 wouldn't fit in my 60l, but your tank is a little deeper. 

Cycling - I assume you plan to fishless cycle then start adding the fish?


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Yeah, I planned for the U4. Amazon gives it as 31.4cm long, which is about 12.5" so should be fine depthwise.

We were going to condition the water, then add a few food flakes and run for a few weeks, then add plants, and then a week or so later add the first danios and shrimp. That's the method in our book but if there's a more reliable way that someone knows will work I'm open to other suggestions. Like I say apart from keeping river minnows for a few days then returning them as a child I've got no fishkeeping experience, just a load of books and stuff I've googled.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi. I am currently waiting to start setting up a 60 litre tank that my husband bought for me - have ordered some things and once they come I can set it up and start cycling it! 

Although this will be my first tropical tank I have done a lot of research on shrimp as 'the plan' was to get a shrimp tank first then progress to a separate fish tank. This tank was a good price and on offer though so we got it!

The only thing I would say is that from everything I've read the Cherry Shrimp would be very unlikely to survive in there - many shrimp keepers advise avoiding putting them with fish at all and if you do put fish in with them then it's likely the baby shrimp (and possibly adults) will be eaten.

I plan on having Cardinal Tetras, lampeyes and a few guppies and may put a couple of Bamboo Shrimp in - these are much bigger than Cherry Shrimp so maybe look into these? There are also the much bigger Cameroon Shrimp.

Filters are often too big / powerful for Shrimp too so you have to make sure that they can't be sucked in by using gauze or tights over the nozzle. Red cherry shrimp really are teeny tiny lol.

I will get a shrimp tank but will have it as a separate tank so that I can breed them safely etc.

Another thing to bear in mind is that shrimp are *very* sensitive to water conditions so it would be best to add them last when the water perimeters are more stable etc.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

Firstly I'd be very wary about putting cherry shrimps with dwarf gouramis, it may be a very expensive way of feeding the gouramis.

Secondly the fish you have chosen are all quite small, the U4 may blow them around a bit too much. It depends on how you have it set up and where the flow directed. The U series does come with an adjustable flow setting so you may get away with it.

You're going to need to get yourself some test kits as well. At the very least get a pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The ammonia is going to be needed to help you cycle the tank and then follow up with the nitrite and nitrates. Fishless cycling can be done with rottin food or you can find some ammonia online. Either liquid ammonia or a salt of it (ammonia chloride the most common I think).


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Cool, the test kits will go on the list of stuff to get in the first wave. Bamboo shrimp are a possibility, will have to look into if there are any around here or if I'd have to mail order.

Is it just the gouramis that would pose a threat to the shrimp? Think the mrs would rather drop them than the shrimp if so. If it's the corys as well, she's not having them as they're my only choice of tank inhabitant (would love a plec, but the varieties small enough for our tank are quite pricey).

I've subbed out the filter for the U3 on AqAdvisor, and it drops the filtration below 100%, not much but I'd like to have a bit of leeway, so will give the U4 a try and just swap it out for a U3 if it seems a bit blowy with the flow changed. Could also go with a completely different brand but I'm just going with what I can get locally without going through the web at the moment.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

No stick with the U series, they're the best out there.

It's only the gorami's that would go for the shrimp, the corys will be fine, in fact you could probably get more of them as they prefer a group. If you're getting corys get a fine gravel or sand for them to snuffle around in. Anything too course isn't great for them.

Have a look into bristlenose plecs, they're small, cheap, easy to hold of and the long finned variety are really pretty.

Also get yourself a gravel siphon from the start, makes cleaning the gravel much easier, the clues in the name.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Just checked and with a U3 and gouramis removed the filtration is still 129% so would leave us a little room to add a few more small fish. I like big fish but the mrs like small shoaling fish hence the choices.

The only other fish we considered getting outside of this list were endlers, which I really like but backed down for an easy life (and to keep my corys in the mix), though with the gouramis gone we'd still have a little leeway for about 6 of these.

Everything else we looked at locally available (tiger barbs, guppys, etc) seemed to have some added risk of fin-nipping or be borderline incompatible with the tetras, which are the fish my mrs won't drop from the list. Nor will she have a small shoal of them in a seperate tank in the kitchen, apparently 'you can't have a fish tank in the kitchen'. She said the same about domestic rats in the spare bedroom.....


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## DONTLOOKATME (Apr 5, 2013)

Deviant said:


> Cool, the test kits will go on the list of stuff to get in the first wave. Bamboo shrimp are a possibility, will have to look into if there are any around here or if I'd have to mail order.
> 
> Is it just the gouramis that would pose a threat to the shrimp? Think the mrs would rather drop them than the shrimp if so. If it's the corys as well, she's not having them as they're my only choice of tank inhabitant (would love a plec, but the varieties small enough for our tank are quite pricey).
> 
> I've subbed out the filter for the U3 on AqAdvisor, and it drops the filtration below 100%, not much but I'd like to have a bit of leeway, so will give the U4 a try and just swap it out for a U3 if it seems a bit blowy with the flow changed. Could also go with a completely different brand but I'm just going with what I can get locally without going through the web at the moment.


Bristlenose plecostomus can be picked up quite cheaply from private breeders.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Is the tank not to small floor area for a bristlenose plec? Also heard stories of people buying a plec that grows to 6" like the bristlenose, but is a mislabelled or misidentified 12"er. Would worry me as [email protected] isn't exactly what I'd call a trusted source and the only thing I've bought from the private fish shop is crickets and dog biscuits so far, so have no idea how good they are with actual fish (they have a small selection of rep items and dog biscuits on the counter).

Gravel siphons are the little gravel hoovers right, churn it up and suck out the nasties?

Since we're planning to plant the tank, we were going to dose the water with fertiliser regularly. Is there an all in one substrate that would help with the plants and be safe for the corys or would we be looking at definately going with a base layer and topping it with sand?


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

There are special substrates, but to be honest with your first try out with a fish tank it's a little overkill. For them to work properly you need under gravel heating and to dose the tank with CO2, all of which is expensive and tricky. For the majority of plants you buy in you local shop a dosing of fertiliser once a week and some good lights will be enough. If you want to boost them a little look into a product called EasyCarbo. A form of liquid carbon that you dose the tank with once a day. Works pretty well.

Gravel siphons are the hoover type things yes, practically mandatory for a healthy tank.

A proper bristle nose will be fine in your tank. You're right that you have to be careful about which you buy as some plecs will grow massive. However the characteristic "bristles" of the bristlenose aren't seen in the bigger plecs. Certainly not in the size and style anyway. So if you see a small plec with a beautiful nose of bristles you should be safe enough. Just be warned though that plecs and plants don't mix very well. It can be done but you have to pick the plants carefully.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

I think I'll stick with the corys for now, they shouldn't cause as much carnage as they only get to about 2-3" at adulthood. Even if there are more of them by the time they get that size the plants should be well grown.

Not sure what plants are going in yet, but plan for it to look something like this one:-


With tall plants around the back and sides, some small and middle height ones in the centre and front, but still a fair amount of floor space for the corys to root around in. The wood shown in the first picture will be staying, it's spending the week in the tank to soak at the moment while we're testing it, once the tank comes back in it'll be washed with water and a brush and left in a rub of clean water until it's ready to go in. The tanins are coming out nicely and it's only been about 24 hours.

Will also be trying to get java moss to settle in on the wood. Hopefully it'll take.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Also, with the test kits, are the litmus type 6-in-1 strips ok to use or is there something more accurate?


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## biohazard156 (Nov 11, 2007)

If I were you, I'd look into getting a liquid test set from nutrafin or Tetra, or something similar. The test strips are really not very accurate and Ammonia and Nitrite are something you definitely want to be accurate when measuring!

When choosing fish, the best bet is to find out the pH of your local water and then pick fish based on that, also taking into account the tank size etc.

If you have soft water, slightly acidic pH then most tetra and catfish will suit. Harder water lends itself better to the African cichlid, rainbowfish type. Believe me, you do not want to be messing about trying to make your water suit your chosen fish, it's a pain in the rear!!

If you have soft water then I think I would go for your pearl danio (gorgeous fish!) in a nice shoal, a nice little group of otocinclus, maybe a clown plec (much smaller than a bristlenose!), a group of 6+ corydoras (panda cory are a lovely little species and stay smallish).

I'd scrap the dwarf gourami, as they will eat your shrimp, and tend to be so over (in) bred that they are very weak and loads end up dying. The Zebra danio like more temperate tanks and are very very active so would benefit from a longer tank than yours. 

I tend to go by "area" if you can when doing a tank, rather than mixing localities, so if you pick south American fish (tetra etc) then stick with that, as they all like roughly the same waters etc 

If you are looking at an Asian type tank, then barbs, loaches, gourami will all work better together  

Hope that helps 

Anna


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## geckotropolis (Mar 20, 2014)

Seems like you've done a fair bit of research. I'll give you my two cents and what I've experienced with my planted tanks and just tanks in general.

First of all I'd say that I personally don't like fluval filters. I had an external one break on me and know a few other people who have had issues with them. I prefer eheim as I've never had issues with them. But that's just personal preference.

I'd also recommend ditching the shrimp. I tried cherry shrimp in my planted tank set up before and I only saw them on day one. I came to the conclusion they were an expensive meal. If you really want shrimp add them last once your tank has balanced out. They are a lot more sensitive than fish to changes in water conditions.

I wouldn't worry about pH too much. Nearly all fish for the aquarium trade is highly adaptable to a wide range of
water conditions. 

I think your stocking is a little light. Especially if you are using lots of plants. I'd go for either danios or tetras (about 15). Trust me one larger schooling species looks nicer than two smaller schools. Have a look at rummynose tetras they are a little bigger than neons but school a lot tighter. I'd also get more Cory's they are naturally schoolers to. I'd go for about 10 of them. I'd also get more gouramis. Take a look at the non dwarf species. Dwarf species are notorious for having a genetic disease (can't remember what its called) but its undetectable and causes a slow death. I had three and they all had it . I keep pearl gouramis or lace gouramis of you want to call them that. They are in my opinion one of the most beautiful fresh water fish. 

I'll post a link to a couple of threads I've made regarding my tanks and planted tanks .

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## geckotropolis (Mar 20, 2014)

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/index.php?topic=34151.0

http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/index.php?topic=34731.0

The first link is my tank log. Its not been updated in a while...and the second link is a guide I made to doing a dirted planted tank. Its a cheap alternative to aquarium fertilisers and expensive aquarium soil. And it works amazing I am using it in my tank just now and I don't dose ferts. I don't need to with soil.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Hey, I just had the filter, a new twin arcadia uv starter with a tropical 24w and a plant growth tube on the way. We've found bristlenose plecs at a local store, and some trustworthy online sites so the current plan is to start fishless cycling the end of May as we're away on holiday the beginning of June. Then we were going to introduce 10 celestial pearl danios and 1-2 bristlenoses once it's stable. Shortly after we'll top off the celestials to 15, though it'll cost us more on postage. Then once we're sure the tank is stable we'll introduce the neons. Last will be the shrimp. We're going to try at least a few as the Mrs really wants them (along with everything but the plecs), I did persuade her to drop the gouramis though, as it lets us get more members for the tetra and danio groups. If the shrimp don't do well she'll have to make do with some in a shrimp only tank later  Also I have a decent test kit now, checked our water ph and our untreated tap water is 7-7.5max.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Just because I'm nosy - where are you planning to get your CPD's from? 

I think I'll be getting mine from Kesgrave Tropicals - on ebay - they've got a really good reputation. 

My tank is currently 'cycling' and am making good progress! I've gone round in circles with deciding what to do shrimp-wise but I've decided to for for Amano Shrimp rather than Cherry Shrimp as I keep reading horror stories of Cherry's being eaten by other fish - even CPD's!! 

Like your Mrs I love shrimp and I do plan to have a shrimp-only tank at some point lol as I love Cherry Shrimp and really want a nice breeding tank at some point. 

I have Java Moss on some well soaked bogwood and have ordered my plants! Can't wait until I can actually have fish in my tank! You are much more patient than me lol.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Also Kesgrave tropicals 

Considering picking up plecs from them as well, as the local store I mentioned is [email protected], and although Kesgrave are a small amount more expensive per bristlenose, the flat rate shipping means I can get them from them at the same time as the danios without costing extra postage. And as they're still fairly small I won't be overloading the tank at the start.

They also have gold dusts plecs, which I'd love, but despite a few sites claiming they get to only 5-6" there are a lot more saying 12"+ so I think they're out. Another possibility is the mustard spotted, or the Flash Plecos they have, both of which say they're about 5-6" in length maximum but I have to do a little more research on them both, as I don't want anything that's going to get larger than a bristle nose as my tank will be too small for it, and ideally I'd like to have two of the same species. Also I want to be sure I'm not going to pay extra (considerably, the flash is £35 to the bristlenoses £3.50) for a fish I really want that I'd accidentally kill off rather than getting a budget fish I'd still be happy with that would be more forgiving of any noobish mistakes I may make.

As for patience I've not normally got any, just that I'm trying to do this in affordable steps as we're buying £100+ of garden plants a month for a few months to finally get it sorted, as well as laying a patio and we're visiting a friend of ours every week who's in hospital for at least another next few months 50 miles away, which has doubled my mileage and so fuel costs. Despite all that we're still saving money every month, which we want to keep in the habit of doing. It's not so much patience, as a great deal of restraint to keep the bank balance looking happier  I've found it far too easy to go out and drop a few hundred quid on what was going to be a small upgrade to the lizards tanks in the past so am making a concerted effort to keep this all structured. Also when I do that I tend to end up with spare kit I didn't really need.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Aw yes money is a pain lol! 

I'm already thinking about a bigger tank that I'd like eventually but the bank balance will have to go up a fair bit first! But it's nice to plan..... ! :2thumb:

I love browsing through Kesgrave's list as it gives me ideas and they describe things really well too. I will try and post a thread when I get my fish - it's CPD's I will be getting plus Lampeye's. I'll be getting the Amano shrimp from there too but not for a month or two after my tank has been up and running. I quite fancy the teeny weeny crabs that they sell too! 

Hope the garden planning goes well!! We had a lot of work to do in ours (it had lumps of concrete all over it!) but walking round it after work today it was great to see how it's come on.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

We've been constantly working on the garden for the last 7 years, spending budget amounts to get it done in dribs and drabs, trying to grow seeds etc, then redoing bits for the dogs (our garden now is split by a fence, 2/3 as garden, 1/3 is dirt free so the dogs can have that bit when we're out). We've come to the conclusion that this year we're just going to throw money into it to get all the beds done and the pond 100% working, we actually have two linked by a water-feature, but at the moment that leaks so running the pond drains about 1-2" in 12 hours. Next year the pond will get fish and we're going to fake turf the lawn as in 7 years we've not found turf or seed that would grow right, as despite being only about 6m long, the top of the lawn gets bone dry in full sun, and a little rain turns the bottom 50cm into a quagmire as it can't drain fast enough past the house. 2/3 of the borders are done now, so it's mostly finished, just need a nice day when I'm not working to finish the cementing for the patio on the dogs side.

Would love to get a bigger tank, but don't think we have room in the house as it is. This one will sit in the corner of the living room, only space for a bigger one would be in the spare room, but I've been told that's not for animals  A few years down the line we're planning to knock through our tiny kitchen into the dining room as it's currently no more than a corridor. I'd like to have a nano-tank in there with either small fish or just shrimp, would be a cool distraction from waiting while stuff cooks without having to leave the room and in my case, forget and burn the food.

Those crabs are awesome, but they said they will be eaten by virtually any fish, which seems like a bit of a downside for them. Though if you did get a shrimp tank they'd be great in it.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Lol its been 7 years for us too! 

We have a 'pet room' as one of our spare rooms - I have a lot less animals than in the past though! I drive my husband potty walking round the house with a tape measure planning what I can fit where! :blush:

Husband bought me this tank - think he's actually just as excited as me!!


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Our box room became the reptile room, it's only 6'x7' though so I've filled it up already. I'd like to move everything into the other spare room which is a lot bigger, but my wife says I'd just get more, which is completely untrue :whistling2:


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## RubyRoo12 (Jun 20, 2012)

It sounds like you have a lot of patience with your tank. The stocking sounds lovely, but I would stick to a single bristlenose, we have tried numerous times in various tanks, and even in a 6ft tank we had 2 bristlenose plecs that fought a lot, one ended up stuck in a corner or behind the filter unable to move without being chased around each time. We just stick to a single bristlenose in any tank now


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Think I'm going go with a single Flash Pleco now, that way we can have a few more danios and neons, about 12-15 of each, without increasing the stock level, filter efficiency or water change amount. According to aqadvisor at least.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

And here's the updated link (couldn't post on my phone from work).

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if it's been mentioned, but have you thought of cardinal tetras instead of neons? They tend to do a lot better. : victory:


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

I'll mention cardinals to the mrs and see what she thinks since they're her choice.

Anyway, update time!



Substrate and background turned up today so the tank has been setup! U3 filter and tank heater in the rear left corner. Rear and left side covered, just need to trim it when the adhesive has gone off. There's 2cm of JBL aqua basis under the gravel, covering the floor of the tank apart from a 1" strip all the way round the edges. a further 4cm of quartz gravel on top of that. The two nice pre-soaked pieces of mopani I had set aside are in.

Getting seachem stability coming tomorrow to treat the water (which took a long time to top up walking from the kitchen to living room around 50-60 times, only guaranteed clean water carrier that I had and is easy to pour was my rep 1.5L spray bottle). Lighting is a twin arcadia starter with 22" tropical and plant pro tubes. Going to collect some plants this evening after the mrs gets back from work, thinking 3 large for the back and left sides, 3 small for in front of the mopani and will get some java moss to hopefully grow on the wood itself. Considering adding some paler pebbles to the foreground substrate too.

As for stocking we think we've settled on:-

10 each of neons/cardinals (wifes choice), galaxy rasbora (also wifes choice) and endlers (my choice).
1 Flash Pleco, which I can get locally and is currently 1.5"-2" long, and only gets to about 6" so won't be outgrowing the tank.
Lastly we're going to try a few cherry shrimp, if they don't work out we'll try something a bit bigger.

Impatience is setting in, so the rasbora may get ordered this week, followed by the pleco a week or two later. Then endlers and finally neons in about a month or so when everything is ticking over nicely.

Final (hopefully) stocking link http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Is it worth getting an airstone too, or are they more of a gimmick?


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

As long as the water surface isn't still then airstones are just nice to look at. Set the outflow of the filter to disturb the waters surface. It doesn't have to be breaking the water and splashing, just enough to give ripples and some movement. This is where the main gas exchange happens in a tank. There is some argument about the bubbles from an airstone increasing the O2 by dissolving on the way up but I've yet to see any published proof of it. It's the bubbles hitting the surface and creating surface movement that causes the exchange.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Looking good so far! :2thumb:

I have an air pump just for my sponge filter as sponge filters are supposed to be excellent for shrimp to 'graze' on. Oh - remember to cover your filter outlet with small gauze stuff (or a piece of ladies tights!) to stop shrimp from being sucked up lol. 

Patience - tell me about it!! 

My cycle is nearly complete but not quite - ammonia is processed very quickly and I have high nitrates so nitrites are being processed *but* am stil waiting for nitrites to drop.

Was so hoping to have fish in before we go on hols on Saturday but that's looking very unlikely now. Still - it will be something to look forward to after my hols I guess! 

After much deliberation and decideding I will also be going for Cherry Shrimp some time down the line when my tank is a bit more mature etc. I have shrimp tubes, tons of Java Moss and some Spiky moss and my piece of bog wood provides lots of nooks and crannies for shrimp fry. 

Watching an Amano shrimp dragging a small catfish round by its tail in a LFS was a tad alarming too - especially as I will be getting fish that are smaller than Amano Shrimps! :gasp:

They are feisty little critters!!


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

And we have some plants 







Apologies for the crappy quality, phone camera doesn't like the UV tubes or the glass.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Water treatment came early this morning (Seachem Stability) so went straight in as directed. Decided I'd try the test kit I have (Hagen Nutrafin Mini Master) for more than just PH, don't know if it's too soon or not but figured I'd post up the results and someone can tell me if they're at all relevant or if it needs more time 

I got the following

PH: 7-7.5
Ammonia: 0 mg/l (No change in test colour)
Nitrate: 5-10 mg/l
Nitrite: 0.1 mg/l

I popped a few flakes of food in yesterday but would imagine it's had no time to produce ammonia yet. Not sure what to make of the other results, according to the testing booklets they're all within safe range, though nitrites are supposed to be around but not more than 0.3 mg/l according to the test.

It's got to run a bit longer anyway as we're not getting fish until after we go on holiday, so says my rational side (aka wife). But I'm curious if the tests mean the seachem is a good product for balancing out an aquarium initially.


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## Mollie100 (Dec 17, 2013)

Fish food isn't the best source of ammonia - I bought some ammonia from Amazon which has been very successful at starting my cycle. You need to add at least 3ppm ammonia to start a true cycle so that when you do get fish the bacteria can cope with the bioload. You have no way of knowing what ppm you're adding with fish food. 

Please do be patient!! Any cycle using any product will take some time - bacteria takes time to grow and develop and no chemical will work miracles no matter what it claims. 

It is very rare for a true cycle to be completed in less than a month - I've been researching, researching and browsing more fish forums - they all say the same thing. 

Cycling properly takes takes ammonia, and time, time, time.


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Cool, I've ordered some ammonia to add to get things started.


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## LawrenceJMitchell (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi
Having read your posts I offer the following.....
Try and find some dead leaves (Oak or Beech) they are great for helping to mature a tank. They will float at first but will sink after a day or so......leaves are also fab shrimp food ......I have Ammano and Cherry......they are all over them and clear up every last bit. Also the leaves will establish a microfauna that Corydorus love cleaning over.
Keep your feeding very light.......less than the packets advocate.......and I find 2,3or 4 tiny feeds better than one or two big ones......even when mature the filter is helped by this regime.
Finally and this is personal, consider ****** Loaches. In groups and given a little time they will colour up and grow more bold. I have ten and the black and orange wrigglers cover every part of the tank grubbing out any no real they can find. They love tablet foods and bloodworm, are Corydorus and Shrimp friendly and grow to something much nicer than the tiny emaciated threads you see in some shops...
All the best with your tanks!


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## Deviant (Sep 10, 2010)

Ok, so about two weeks in and everything seems to be going well. The plants initially went downhill but are all now making a recovery with new leaves sprouting, one in particular is now about 4x the size from when we put it in there. I've been keeping an eye on levels every few days, but I'm unsure whether I'm meant to do a water change or leave everything to settle some more so that nitrate levels come down on their own.

We had a few pond snails emerge, which I mostly got rid of as I read that they can breed like crazy. In hindsight this was a mistake as although there were only 10 or so the algae has exploded in the last few days and the remaining few I missed aren't managing it. So I've ordered a few trumpet snails to keep it a little more under control until the tank is ready for the plec, as it's growing on some of the plant leaves.

Here are my readings for the past two weeks, should I do a water change or wait for nitrates to drop slightly before I do? I've also been dosing the tank with 2ml of 35% ammonia solution most days and have stopped treating with the seachem after the first week.

Temp is a constant 79*f

Day 1 - Mon 12th
PH = 7-7.5
Ammonia = 0 mg/l
Nitrate = 5-10 mg/l
Nitrite = 0.1 mg/l

Day 5 - Fri 16th
PH = 7.5
Ammonia = 2.4 mg/l
Nitrate = 20 mg/l
Nitrite = 0.8 mg/l

Day 7 - Performed 20% water change

Day 8 - Mon 19th
PH = 7.5
Ammonia = 0 mg/l
Nitrate = 110 mg/l (max reading)
Nitrite = 3.3 mg/l (max reading)

Day 12 - Fri 23rd
PH = 7
Ammonia = 0 mg/l
Nitrate = 110 mg/l (max reading)
Nitrite = 3.3 mg/l (max reading)

The tests are telling me to do a water change, which I think I should follow, but I've read this week that some people advise against water changes while fishless cycling until the end of the cycle.

What are peoples thoughts?


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