# Does anyone else agree that cats should not be allowed to roam?



## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Just been reading the other thread about the cat getting hit by a car and amde me think that is such a bad idea. Firstly the amount of native wildlife they kill is ridiculous and roaming cats get into all sorts of trouble. I have heard people say not letting them roam is cruel but surely putting them at risk from getting hit by cars and letting them kill all the native wildlife is worse? I personally think it is very irresponsible even though cats have been kept like this for some time it is not really ideal what do you think?


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

Im all in favour of containing them!! I mean why do we care where all our other pets are and yet happily let cats wander around at large to get into god know what trouble??
What convinced me was a very bad year resulting in 1 cat hit by a car and killed, 1 cat poisoned and killed, 1 cat missing and never returned and 1 cat who was horribly injured by a trap and had his leg amputated and then died a few months later.
Cats dont need to roam any more then dogs or rabbits do!


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

Personally I think they should be kept secure in their owners house/garden just like dogs. You don't see pedigree cats roaming about defacating in other peoples gardens or getting hit by a car. I think those owners who use the but they have a right to roam excuse are just pathetic, technically dogs like to roam and would be much happier roaming but like the rest of the pet/livestock animals they generally have to be contained. It drives me insane when I see people moaning on other forums about their precious moggy being hit by a car, squirted with water or attacked by a dog because it was roaming the streets if you don't want those things to happen then secure your garden if you let your cat roam then you risk it and can't complain when something bad happens regardless. That said that is just my opinion on the subject and no doubt people will come along and disagree with me.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

I think containing cats is cruel. Considering it is MY cat you are referring to (and we now believe he has a wire wound, and hasn't been hit by a car at all), allow me to lose my cool slightly- you have not even had the courtesy to contact me privately before making a thread based on my own animal, basically calling me a bad owner....

I think its a selfish and narrow minded owner who confines a cat indoors for all its life. Far too often have I seen depressed, overweight and under-enriched indoor cats, fed on incorrect foods and deprived of their natural instincts (roaming/hunting) for the sake of its owner. 

You know of the 5 Freedoms, yes? One of which is "the freedom to express natural behaviours". Indoor cats, in my opinion, simply do not have this freedom. 

Not allowing a cat out to roam because there is a chance it might be struck by a car, is to me as stupid as not letting your child out to play as it might get struck by a car, or not letting your horse into the paddock as it might slip and break its leg, or not letting your dog off its lead ever because there is a chance it might run off and get hit by a car. 

There is a risk to keeping all animals, end of. If you believe someone is irresponsible because they do things differently to you, then fine, but who on earth do you think you are to go pointing the finger and publicly attempting to call them out. 

Last time I started a thread calling all indoor cat keepers cruel? Erm.... never. It's downright rude and immature.

The only thing I agree on with your post is about the native wildlife. However, my cats were given to me as a 14th birthday present having been pretty much rescued from a farm- and I knew no better. I am simply NOT going to confine them indoors for the rest of their lives. It would be to the detriment of their health. 

End of rant. Just think though- if you had a very sick animal, would you appreciate some stranger on the internet basically calling you a bad owner? I'm guessing you wouldn't, so how about you think before you type, and take other peoples feelings into account.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

My neighbour should contain theirs. 
He complains that my dog barks, whys she barking? because his cats in my f:censor:g garden!

As a general rule I'm not to fussed. My Nanna's cats free roam, they don't tend to leave the garden and if they do, its only to sit on the drive way.


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## Stevesri (Sep 30, 2009)

I have no issues with cats roaming what i do hate is the f******g thing's my neighbours in general deciding it wants to use my garden as its loo although its stopped doing as much since every time i see heading in the direction of my garden or on my van roof, garage roof it has my dog charging towards it. i do also only do this due to the fact they have a habit of also stalking ours rabbits and guinea pigs which stresses them out.


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

Sexybear my response isn't aimed at you just how I view things. The same could be said for ANY captive pet when it comes to allowing them to roam to give them the enrichment of hunting/roaming etc. I'm sure my pet rabbits would LOVE to be given the oppertunity to be free so they can do what comes naturally to them, unfortunately like most pets as an owner I have to provide them with other means of entertainment which surely is what cat owners should do? There are plenty of products on the market to enrich a cats life just like other pets, you can get automated toys that move to give them the stimulation of hunting. Why is a cat any different to stimulate than a dog or parrot or even a rat? They aren't its just that the majority of domesticated pets aren't allowed the freedom to do what comes naturally and instinctively so why should someones cat be any different? Surely a dog has the right to live/roam in a pack and hunt other animals just like a cat afterall its what comes naturally to them too? Also as a dog owner I have to clean up after my dog, I don't appreciate cleaning up after other peoples cats when they fowl where my kids play or spray my kids toys. Oh and don't forget the lovely catterwalling that goes on in the early hours when an unspayed tom is after a queen in heat at stupid o clock its not nice. 

That said I think many people will agree to disagree on this subject as everyone has their own views. But I will not sympathise with people who let their cats roam and then moan/complain when their cat gets injured/killed because they were roaming free.


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## philipniceguy (Mar 31, 2008)

cats should not be aloud to be loose FULL STOP. alot kill to main wildlife so on no other pet is aloud to do that, they should however be aloud out for exercise so on like a dog on a lead so on. if people only started keeping cats now they would not be aloud too be free to do what they like. theres many reasons why i dont like it though i do like cats, but the main reason for me is wildlife and POOH as dog owners should pick theres up so should cat owners if a cat gets in my garden (and gets out again) the pooh would follow it back to the owners garden :lol2: but as my dogs/ raccon dogs and other pets wonder the garden day and night none come in mine (likly for them raccoon dogs would eat them i thinks)


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

Maybe it wasnt very subtle to mention another thread but it is still a valid topic for debate.
I had several cats happily as free roaming cats for many years until I lost several in a year. As a consequence of going door to door to try and find them I discovered that many other people had cats that came home injured, poisoned or not at all. Only thing I could figure was that a cat hater had moved into the area and was attempting some sort of cull!!
Would you have let your cats continue going out knowing that??
Since I have therefore experienced over 10 years of free roaming kitties and over 10 years since of contained kitties I can honestly say there is no difference in their behaviour or contentment levels.:2thumb:
I do believe you need to provide them stimulation though so mine basically have their own bedroom with several floor to ceiling climbing frames, their own bunk bed and a run in the garden with more posts and look out spots for them.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

rubberbiscuit said:


> What convinced me was a very bad year resulting in 1 cat hit by a car and killed, 1 cat poisoned and killed, 1 cat missing and never returned and 1 cat who was horribly injured by a trap and had his leg amputated and then died a few months later.


Poisoned dogs-
Mystery of 16 poisoned dogs: Pets die in agony minutes after walking in field | Mail Online

Stolen dog-
A dog owner has told how a gang of men pushed him into a ditch and made off with his valuable lurcher while he was out walking. | This is Leicestershire

Police dog killed by car-
River rescue police dog killed by car - The Daily Record

Missing dog-
Family's anguish over missing dog (From Echo)

Guess we'd better all start keeping our dogs inside forever as well.


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

Contain it and walk it. Simples.

Funnily enough I was out walking my friend back to the train station, at around 8.30 pm...when we saw this young cat just wandering along the middle of the road...I shood it to the pavement and tried to get close to it so I could pick it up and find its house as this poor cat had NO sense of road danger. Unfortunately he didn't let me get close enough so he ran off :/ though he went far from the road which is good. Now that little cat can so easily get run over as it literally just stands there even when there were cars coming...I had to stop one car or he'd have gotten run over.

So yes, cats must be contained to a safe garden...and I guess walked? I don't know. But free-roam? No.


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

well, good luck teaching a cat to recall!!
also stopping dogs eating it when you are down the park!!LOL:whistling2:


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## Rubio (Aug 24, 2011)

*Sorry*

Sorry I thought you said live "".................just kidding ok moggie lovers x


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

My point is, there will always be a risk with having any animal outside, not just free roaming. Not long ago I read a thread about a dog owner, whose dog had snapped its collar and managed to run across the road, narrowly avoiding being struck by cars. I know of 2 dogs that have been hit by cars *whilst on leads*. I also know of an indoor kitten that was eaten by its owner's dog and another that had it's leg broken after its drunken owner stepped on it.

Contained chickens, rabbits, guinea pigs etc are frequently eaten by foxes, I have know plenty of horses killed whilst out in the field. Accidents happen with ANY species of animal when it is not contained.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I do think its personal choice. The law states that a cat is treated as a wild animal so if one gets hit by a car the driver has no obligation to report it.
Mine are confined to the house and garden as I lost 2(got them back eventually) one was found shot(he lost his leg) and the neighbours complained about them being in their garden. My friend who lives at the sanctuary allows hers to roam as its a very rural area but I live in a town near a dual carriage way and wont risk my cats being injured or killed.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

I'm in total agreement with sexy bear. Cats have been free roaming this island for thousands of years. Claiming they devastate wild animal populations is ridiculous. Yes, they do kill, but its no more than any other animal in the country, and is not enough to cause any extinctions.
If you don't want them in your yard, there are plenty of methods to deter them (without spraying them with the garden hose, which actually is cruel) such as sprinkling citrus rind around the edges of the garden.
To answer a few claims,

Cats bury their feces, dogs do not

most cats I know and have owned stay well clear of roads, sticking to fields and gardens.

Cats are only semi domesticated and can go missing. Ive had 2 go missing, but the biggest culprit to this is idiots thinking its fine to feed cats if they come round. then because they return for more, the idiots think they are stray and try to keep them.

Dogs dent free roam (anymore) due to the risk of attacking people. Dogs are able to be taken on walks, have you ever lead walked a cat, not easy one bit.

At the risk of sounding like a d*ck, If you have a problem with free roaming cats, its your problem, sort it yourself. Either keep your cats In, or protect your garden as mentioned above


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

When you've suffered the heartache of your beloved cat being killed by a car some people may change their minds. Growing up we had 3 cats killed by vehicles. At what point do you say enough is enough? It's hardly natural for them to have to deal with traffic.

I assume those against keeping cats confined are also against keeping any animal in a confined space... birds, reptiles, fish etc etc


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

While I do agree that there is always a risk in keeping animals, I still believe it is up to us to minimise those risk as much as possible (without getting silly about it i.e. keeping a dog in a padded room lol).


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Now how on earth would you keep a cat in a garden, other than building a net over the roof of your fence, cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active. Some cats are happy to stay indoors as long as they can still remain active and play, but many like the freedom. My cats would go mental to get out. Pebbles only goes accross the road and round the corner tahts as far as he goes, but there are plenty mice etc near by he gets, and he likes to climb the trees accross the road. Tinks on the other hand stays closer only goes out for an hour or so then comes home beside us, once a month she will venture for longer but not often.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Ive been living with cats since I was a little girl, and yes some get run over, where I live now I have lost, fluffy, dixie, harley, daisy and salum. Thats in 7 years, so I know how it feels, but I would still NEVER lock my cats in unless the vet says so, but they go crazy after 2 days.


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## urbanhippie (Mar 20, 2009)

It is a personal choice at the end of the day. However, if a cat gets into my garden, it had better be quick as the garden belongs to my greyhound. And having witnessed her catch a cat and then having to hit her with a broom to make her let go, and they try to find the owners of the aforementioned feline in order to tell them what happened and make sure the kitty was ok (it was), I can say it's not only you that gets upset if something happens. But yes, it's up to you.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

Kat91 said:


> While I do agree that there is always a risk in keeping animals, I still believe it is up to us to minimise those risk as much as possible (without getting silly about it i.e. keeping a dog in a padded room lol).


Like moving to here?









My house on the left, my neighbours on the right further away. 1 road, just visible on the left. We have a 3/4 acre of garden separating us from the road (hidden by a dip). Pretty rural......


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## Kat91 (Sep 19, 2008)

dizzylynn said:


> Now how on earth would you keep a cat in a garden, other than building a net over the roof of your fence, cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active. Some cats are happy to stay indoors as long as they can still remain active and play, but many like the freedom. My cats would go mental to get out. Pebbles only goes accross the road and round the corner tahts as far as he goes, but there are plenty mice etc near by he gets, and he likes to climb the trees accross the road. Tinks on the other hand stays closer only goes out for an hour or so then comes home beside us, once a month she will venture for longer but not often.


Really? the same can be said about dogs when they were just being domesticated..."oh no...the dog needs to be able to roam and hunt!"....no it doesn't....

If you can't bear to keep your cat confined then 1. don't keep a cat or 2. don't moan when it gets run over/eaten by next door's dog etc...

Sorry if that sounds harsh, it just annoys me when people think cats must be roaming free...I know plenty of people who keep their cats indoors successfully. Obviously if the cat is only used to the outside then it won't want to be kept inside...duh.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Its personal preference. But if my neighbours come crying to me when my dog rips their cat apart, they'll get told where to stick it. 
However, like I said, my nannas are free roaming, as was mine, though she lived on a council estate and was hard as nails!

EDIT: again, just to say, its personal preference, as long as you are willing to accept what could happen and provide the right care, then do what you want.


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## sensi5446 (Sep 20, 2011)

IMO it not right to confine cats, they need to roam and do cat things just the same way its not right to confine dogs but dogs can be taken out on walks so they get to roam and be dogs, cats can't. I have two males cats and they only come in in the day to eat and sleep other then that I don't really see them apart from when they are chilling in the garden 8) or want some attention :flrt:
and the way I see it with the cats being hit by a car, yes its very sad and would upset me if any of mine were killed that way but they have to live and learn or don't.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

dizzylynn said:


> Ive been living with cats since I was a little girl, and yes some get run over, where I live now I have lost, fluffy, dixie, harley, daisy and salum. Thats in 7 years, so I know how it feels, but I would still NEVER lock my cats in unless the vet says so, but they go crazy after 2 days.


 

Why not catproof your garden thats actually a lot of cats to lose 






SexyBear77 said:


> Like moving to here?
> image
> 
> My house on the left, my neighbours on the right further away. 1 road, just visible on the left. We have a 3/4 acre of garden separating us from the road (hidden by a dip). Pretty rural......


Wow, my cats would love to live there(so would I:no1


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

Shell195 said:


> Wow, my cats would love to live there(so would I:no1


My cats adore it, the garden has got a palm-frond-fluffy-bush-type-thing in it that pretty much acts as a never ending cat toy. It's a constant source of amusement for them. : victory: They also like climbing the trees in the orchard, and pouncing on the dogs from the heather borders first thing in the morning.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

SexyBear77 said:


> My cats adore it, the garden has got a palm-frond-fluffy-bush-type-thing in it that pretty much acts as a never ending cat toy. It's a constant source of amusement for them. : victory: They also like climbing the trees in the orchard, and pouncing on the dogs from the heather borders first thing in the morning.


If I turn myself into a cat will you adopt me? :gasp:


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## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> Now how on earth would you keep a cat in a garden, other than building a net over the roof of your fence, cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active. Some cats are happy to stay indoors as long as they can still remain active and play, but many like the freedom. My cats would go mental to get out. Pebbles only goes accross the road and round the corner tahts as far as he goes, but there are plenty mice etc near by he gets, and he likes to climb the trees accross the road. Tinks on the other hand stays closer only goes out for an hour or so then comes home beside us, once a month she will venture for longer but not often.



There's an old thread on here where someone has cat proofed their garden.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I absolutely agree that cats should be contained.I can't leave my own animals free and unattended for one moment in the garden for fear of someone elses pet wandering through my property and killing my pet.I also have to scan the garden before letting my dogs out into my garden because again somebody elses pet/responsibility may be lurking and get hurt.I like birds and I very much resent other peoples pets killing them on my property.I have nothing against cats,they can't help it but the owners can.I drive for a job and see approx 2 a month dead on the road.Who has a pet and lets it out on the roads,I don't understand this mentality.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

My cats have a cat run for their safety and the safety of the local wildlife! My cats are just so precious to me I like to know where they are. If people are happy to let their cats roam they are entitled to their choice.


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## Catherine896 (Jul 27, 2007)

I dont see why cats 'need' to roam, whats the difference with dogs? You can cat proof a garden. Saying that, 2 of my cats do go out, but they dont go too far, behind my house is all gardens, then woods, then more gardens. The only access to a road they have, would be to go right out the woods, through a car park and past a hotel etc, quite a walk and they wont even try and follow me when I walk that way so I highly doubt they would when they are alone. If I lived in a 'normal' house where they could jump over my garden wall and be on a path/road, then no WAY would I let them out. The garden would be cat proofed or they would be indoor cats. Why would I want to risk them having road sense and dodging cars etc.

My 2 younger cats are indoor cats, and they are perfectly healthy and the vet always comments on how nice they are and what good condition they are in. They zoom around and have fun, and have access to a walled yard so they cant go out to the big garden like my older 2 do.

I know my post is a bit confusing as I dont agree with roaming cats, but 2 of mine do, I think it depends on the area people live as to whether its 'safe' or not. I know there are risks still with my 2 older ones being out, but the only road is a long walk and none of the cats Ive had living here have ever gone up that way. I dont agree with cats roaming when they are surrounded by roads, and if I moved Id have to either make my 2 older cats indoor cats at the new house, or leave them with my parents here.

I dont get it when people open their front doors and let the cat out, when its a tiny little path, parked cars, then a road. Thats what confuses me about it. My cats cant get out the front, they only have the back gardens which as said above is a long way from a road which Ive never known them go to. They run a mile when they see the front door open and hear/see traffic.


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## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

I think this is just one of those subjects were people will sit either side of the fence and never change. I can understand people who want to keep cats in for safety reasons when they live next to busy roads, etc.


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

U


Tarron said:


> I'm in total agreement with sexy bear. Cats have been free roaming this island for thousands of years. Claiming they devastate wild animal populations is ridiculous. Yes, they do kill, but its no more than any other animal in the country, and is not enough to cause any extinctions.
> If you don't want them in your yard, there are plenty of methods to deter them (without spraying them with the garden hose, which actually is cruel) such as sprinkling citrus rind around the edges of the garden.
> To answer a few claims,
> 
> ...


But I choose not to have a cat so why should I have the added expense of trying to keep them out or clean up after them when they have owners that should be responsible for that? I have enough expense by having kids and my own pets I don't need the added responsibility thanks my pets are kept away from squirting the kids toys with their wee so why should my kids be exposed to cat wee on toys or poo in the sand pit or where the kids climbing frame and swing set is?


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

dizzylynn said:


> Now how on earth would you keep a cat in a garden, other than building a net over the roof of your fence, cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active. Some cats are happy to stay indoors as long as they can still remain active and play, but many like the freedom. My cats would go mental to get out. Pebbles only goes accross the road and round the corner tahts as far as he goes, but there are plenty mice etc near by he gets, and he likes to climb the trees accross the road. Tinks on the other hand stays closer only goes out for an hour or so then comes home beside us, once a month she will venture for longer but not often.


You can get special fence tops to keep the cats confined, my dog would love to go hunting too but he can't as he ain't a cat. Surely if your cat likes to climb and hunt it is your duty to provide this in a secure environment? Dogs are happy playing fetch and last time I checked there are plenty of products on market to entertain a cats instinct to hunt Chase and climb without having to inflict injury on another animal. How would you feel if someone was so blaze about their dog roaming free and hinting and killing cats for fun as its no different to you allowing your cat to kill mice, birds, frogs etc after all its natural instinct?


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Tarron said:


> Cats bury their feces, dogs do not


This is actually increasingly untrue. Cats learn to bury from their Mother, every generation less and less are experiencing this behaviour in their Mother and so another litter of what 5-9-12? kittens who are not doing it and couldn't teach their kittens if they ever had any. 

Given a choice cats will not poop in their own territory they almost exclusively poop in other people gardens is always going to add to tension caused by free roaming cats.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I think it is the owners choice whether they allow their cats to roam or confine them to a house or a garden, but from my own personal view, I bought my cats because I wanted them and I see one of my responsibilities to them is to keep them safe. So my garden is cat proofed.



Tarron said:


> I'm in total agreement with sexy bear. Cats have been free roaming this island for thousands of years.


Yes and when they arrived here and were free roaming there was no traffic on roads, cos there wasn't really any roads. Over the years cars have got more and more plentiful and faster and faster, so the risk to a cat being run over is by far a greater likelihood now than it was even 50 years ago.


Tarron said:


> most cats I know and have owned stay well clear of roads, sticking to fields and gardens.


That's a pretty sweeping statement to make - can I ask how you know this? Do you actually follow all these cats and not see them on roads. Most cats are known to travel miles when they are out on their adventures.


dizzylynn said:


> Now how on earth would you keep a cat in a garden, other than building a net over the roof of your fence, cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active.


My garden is cat proofed but it isn't netted in, it just has a wire overhang along the top of the fence and none of my cats have even attempted to jump out of it - they just see it as their property.



dizzylynn said:


> cats need to rome, they need to hunt to keep them healthy and active.


I have to say I totally disagree with this statement. Cats don't *need *to roam to be healthy and active. My cats don't roam and I can tell you they are very active and very healthy and they live long lives because they aren't at risk.



SexyBear77 said:


> Like moving to here?
> image
> 
> My house on the left, my neighbours on the right further away. 1 road, just visible on the left. We have a 3/4 acre of garden separating us from the road (hidden by a dip). Pretty rural......


That's a beautiful rural area, but you still have roads to access that and those roads are quiet and that can make a cat more complacent about traffic than if it was living in an urban area. I sold a kitten who lived in a tiny village at the end of a dead end lane all around the house was fields for miles, yet when it was 4 year old it was killed on the access lane to the house. 
My cousin had a Burmese cat in inner city Edinburgh, basically 3 street away from Princes Street. he went out all his life and successfully negotiated traffic. They also had a holiday home in a village high up the hills above Penrith. One day he was crossing the road and froze when a car came and the car hit and killed him - I honestly doubt that would have ever happened in Edinburgh as the traffic would have made him much more wary, than the occasional car driving down the village road every 10 or more minutes.

Finally, it's not just traffic risk to cats nowadays. There are incurable diseases that you cannot vaccinate against, there are people stealing them for nefarious reasons and there's no way I'm going to allow my cats to go out and be stolen to bait a dog and be torn apart from - and believe me it happens!!! I couldn't live weith myself if that happened.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

just to raise this point: not all cats are purely pets. some fullfill a working use, ie rodent control, aswell as being companion animals. virtually all the farmers/farm owners i know have feral cats around to keep rodent populations under control. in terms of effect on local wildlife, keeping a cat or 2 around as rodent control is far less potentially devastating to wildlife than someone putting poison down.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> That's a beautiful rural area, but you still have roads to access that and those roads are quiet and that can make a cat more complacent about traffic than if it was living in an urban area.


My cats are anything but complacent about traffic- they see a vehicle, they run and hide. Always have. I am a firm believer that to my cats, not seeing cars day in day out makes them much more wary of them, as opposed to being too laid back about them. Think about it- would you be more wary of something you didn't see very often, far bigger and noisier and smellier than you, or would you not give a toss? I know what my cats think.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

miss_ferret said:


> just to raise this point: not all cats are purely pets. some fullfill a working use, ie rodent control, aswell as being companion animals. virtually all the farmers/farm owners i know have feral cats around to keep rodent populations under control. in terms of effect on local wildlife, keeping a cat or 2 around as rodent control is far less potentially devastating to wildlife than someone putting poison down.


Total agree with this, but they aren't pets the way most of ours are and I see a difference there.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I keep my 2 Siamese cats indoors, as the area I live in is quite rough & I have seen the local gob-shites releasing their 'pit-bulls' & set them after cats in the street. Indeed, the woman accross the road from us, a couple of doors down had her elderly cat killed by a local 'pit-bull' in her front garden. Plus, despite there being speed bymps in our street, the local boy-racers like to fly up & down in their wheeled penis extensions at stupid speeds. So I will cruelly & narrow-mindedly contain my beloved pets indoors, where they can climb their cat tower, sleep away the afternoon in front of the fire, play with the Chihuahuas, & mew orders at their human staff.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Tarron said:


> I think this is just one of those subjects were people will sit either side of the fence and never change. I can understand people who want to keep cats in for safety reasons when they live next to busy roads, etc.



On the contrary, growing up I had free roaming cats, to be honest at the time the thought of a house cat wouldn't have even occurred to me. Were they happy, yes, most of the time they would rather have stayed in the house and garden though. However over the years a few things happened that made me start to think roaming cats weren't ideal.

I lived in a nice area yet some chavvy teens decided to catch Sophie and attempt to attach a firework to her, when I went to intervene I was told she was their cat and to :censor: off, at which point I absolutely lost my cool and the boys ran off.

One neighbour decided to start feeding Meg tune/sardines/milk/chicken, you name it she gave it her. Her excuse was that Meg was skin and bones and we starved her...the vet said she was slightly overweight and needed to go on a diet. My mum put a stop to that.

Two of my neighbours cats were run over, but they wandered further afield than mine, so I eased my mind with thoughts of that.

Harriet was attacked by a german shepherd when she was about 8 months old, not long after she was first allowed to roam (spayed ofc). She then retreated up a humongous tree and we had to get window cleaners to help us get her down so we could take her to the vets.

Now all this happened whilst I was a 'minor' and so the decision on where the cats were and weren't allowed to go resided with my parents.

Fast forward a couple of years and I just had Sophie left, and moved up to the north-east with my fiancé. All she had known was free roaming so after a few weeks I started to ease her out. All was fine for a year and then one day she didn't come home. I was frantic as she was a homebody and rarely left the garden. She showed up the following day, walked through the back door and collapsed on the floor moaning. Rushed her to the vets, who said she was in severe kidney failure, he believed it was most likely caused by her being poisoned, due to the fact she'd had no symptoms previously, he said the most likely thing would have been antifreeze, and a few other cases had been brought in (but that wasn't made public knowledge so we'd had no idea)..now in winter I could perhaps imagine that she'd got access to it on her own but she died in summer. So some :censor: deliberately poisoned her. The vet said he could have kept her on a drip to do further investigation but the damage was to severe, so we decided to have her put to sleep to save her any more suffering.

That was the straw that broke this camels back. Suddenly people keeping cats as house cats made so much more sense to me. There's no risk of strange dogs attacking them, idiot people kicking/shooting/poisoning, traffic etc etc. I decided that if we were to get another cat it would be a house cat, and as such we would get a youngster who had never known life outside, with teh idea of 'it can't miss what it's never had' especially when we provide everything she could ever need right here in the home. They have scratch posts galore, toys, covered shelves so they can get height and climb naturally, we do simulated hunts with them. They literally want for nothing. They can exhibit natural behaviour which is one of the freedoms, they just do it in a way that doesn't effect the native wildlife population.

If people want their cats to roam that's entirely their decision, but it really irritates me when people jump on the indoor cats is cruel bandwagon. I've lived both sides of that fence, and it isn't cruel. Providing the cat(s) are stimulated where is the problem in keeping them safe from harm?

Also to the person who said you can't cat proof a garden, you absolutely can. Feorag & Shell on here have both catproofed theirs successfully.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> My cats are anything but complacent about traffic- they see a vehicle, they run and hide. Always have. I am a firm believer that to my cats, not seeing cars day in day out makes them much more wary of them, as opposed to being too laid back about them. Think about it- would you be more wary of something you didn't see very often, far bigger and noisier and smellier than you, or would you not give a toss? I know what my cats think.


Sorry, but I disagree, when traffic is heavy cats know they have to move fast to get away and remain constantly wary when they come to a road. A cat that lives on a quiet road and sees 1 car an hour (i.e.) could easily be caught out by not anticipating the speed or being caught in the middle of the road and freezing.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> Sorry, but I disagree, when traffic is heavy cats know they have to move fast to get away and remain constantly wary when they come to a road. A cat that lives on a quiet road and sees 1 car an hour (i.e.) could easily be caught out by not anticipating the speed or being caught in the middle of the road and freezing.


Sorry, but I disagree. We'll agree to disagree, eh?


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

Esarosa said:


> Also to the person who said you can't cat proof a garden, you absolutely can. Feorag & Shell on here have both catproofed theirs successfully.


I think that depends entirely on the garden- mine couldn't be cat-proofed unless you built a closed in run and carried the cats out to it each day.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> I think that depends entirely on the garden- mine couldn't be cat-proofed unless you built a closed in run and carried the cats out to it each day.



I didn't say every garden could be. We haven't cat proofed ours as we're unable to do so. But when we move that's actually one of the things on the list that needs to be doable. Either the ability to cat proof, or a flat area branching off patio doors that we can add a run to for the cats.


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## kemist (Jan 25, 2009)

I suppose it comes down to a number of factors. Cats have a personality of their own mine for example wants to come back in after half an hour yet a friends only comes in for food and sleep (in winter only). Location we are on a mainish road but with a big garden so he doesnt try to go to the front of the house. House cat doesn't always mean fat, unhealthy or unhappy. Each owner does what they feel is best for their animals mine is a house cat is happy and healthy if i was in a rural area i would let him roam as much as he likes. My pet hate is bad owners that get an animal with no thought to its needs and neglect it people who simply do it differently i'll agree what suits one may not suit another.


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## LiquidOnyx (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm very pro-outdoor cats. The idea of keeping cats indoors 24/7 just doesn't sit right with me. Cats are not the same as dogs, and keeping them indoors is only a very recent thing. 

I also can't stand all the myths thrown around about outdoor cats. For one, I don't believe they do nearly as much damage to wildlife as people think. Even the RSPB admits that cats don't seriously affect bird populations and tend to pick off the weakest animals. Wildlife naturally has a very high mortality rate, and cats are just helping to kill those animals who would have died anyway.

Although our cats don't have access to any roads, and are welcomed by the neighbor, so our cats are perfectly okay to be outside.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. We'll agree to disagree, eh?


Absolutely! :2thumb: I have no problem with that, but I do agree with putting both sides to an argument and giving reasons for it.



SexyBear77 said:


> I think that depends entirely on the garden- mine couldn't be cat-proofed unless you built a closed in run and carried the cats out to it each day.


A lot of people who don't want their cats to free roam, but who have a garden that can't be catproofed build a run onto the side of the house and give the cat access from a window or a cat flap - again it can be done.

I sold a kitten to a family who lived in a village who had had 3 cats and one of them (a Birman, so obviously a highly noticeable cat!) came home one day having been shot. The shot went through the front of the chest and out the back and managed to avoid all the major organs. Then one day that cat went out and never came home. 

They then bought a kitten from me and came to see how I'd cat proofed my garden. Theirs was much more complicated because they were a detached house in the centre of a huge garden and they needed access all around for delivery of coal etc. They built an enclosure in the garden using natural tree poles rather than fence posts and green plastic mesh so it kind of disappeared into the greenery of the garden, but they couldn't attach it to the house. As the garden was on a slope they knocked a cat flap through the wall of their son's bedroom, out onto the concrete path at the point where there was a step down because of the slope, then dug a hole from the path underground to the enclosure. Then they put a large drainage pipe from the cat flap into the enclosure, putting a metal grid across the top of it so it could be stepped on from the step and it worked brilliantly. They also had mature trees in this enclosure which they 'collared' with mesh to stop the cats climbing.

However, that example is very extreme, but shows that it can be done. 



LiquidOnyx said:


> I'm very pro-outdoor cats. The idea of keeping cats indoors 24/7 just doesn't sit right with me. Cats are not the same as dogs, and keeping them indoors is only a very recent thing.
> 
> I also can't stand all the myths thrown around about outdoor cats. For one, I don't believe they do nearly as much damage to wildlife as people think. Even the RSPB admits that cats don't seriously affect bird populations and tend to pick off the weakest animals. Wildlife naturally has a very high mortality rate, and cats are just helping to kill those animals who would have died anyway.
> 
> Although our cats don't have access to any roads, and are welcomed by the neighbor, so our cats are perfectly okay to be outside.


The effect of cats on wildlife isn't as bad as a lot of people try to paint it to be - if you check the figures - it's bad, but not *that *bad. 

However, I love my wildlife and, although I don't have a problem with "survival of the fittest" and the sick and injured ones being killed by wild animals that need to survive, I do have a problem with cats that are being fed taking out wildlife.

However, I'm trying to work out how your cats don't have access to a road? :crazy:


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## LiquidOnyx (Aug 23, 2011)

> However, I'm trying to work out how your cats don't have access to a road? :crazy:


We live in the middle of a row of terraces that backs onto a railway line, so they have no way of accessing the road, luckily! Plus our cats don't tend to venture much further then the neighbors garden.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> Absolutely! :2thumb: I have no problem with that, but I do agree with putting both sides to an argument and giving reasons for it.
> 
> A lot of people who don't want their cats to free roam, but who have a garden that can't be catproofed build a run onto the side of the house and give the cat access from a window or a cat flap - again it can be done.
> 
> ...


 
Anne Rose had one of these coming from the upstairs landing of her house going into a huge run, it was pretty amazing:2thumb:


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

Havnt read all the posts as i know it will get my goat up :lol2: but i would love to see people try to keep in my cats, they go mad after a few days, out of the 3 of them 2 were semi feral and the other was from a lady whos cat had had kittens, none of them coped well indoors dispite my efforts to keep them in, even just for the night time. They simply would hide in the garden waiting for us to give up. 
Sadly this lifestyle cost my beloved Gizmo her life, we still arent sure what happened to her, however i am comforted that she lived a happy, healthy 7 year life outdoors rather than a stressed unhappy one indoors, thats not to say all indoor cats are unhappy though. My OHs mum keeps hers indoors....and im sad to say that although its the cats choice to be indoors, the family has no idea on diet and exercise change required for indoor cats. This is a family where both sons study animal care :bash: so i dread to think how the uninformed owners manage their cats. 
Although its been nearly 5 months i am still crushed Gizmo is gone, but knowing she lived how she was happy rather than wrapped in cotton wool brings me comfort. It is not iresponsible to let cats out, this was what they were domesticated to do...hunt. Just because we find it inconveniant now doesnt give us the right to cause them suffering. 
The average person does much more harm to the ecosystem every day than any cat....but will you be changing the way YOU live? ....no :whistling2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Drayvan said:


> Havnt read all the posts as i know it will get my goat up :lol2: but i would love to see people try to keep in my cats, they go mad after a few days, out of the 3 of them 2 were semi feral and the other was from a lady whos cat had had kittens, none of them coped well indoors dispite my efforts to keep them in, even just for the night time. They simply would hide in the garden waiting for us to give up.
> Sadly this lifestyle cost my beloved Gizmo her life, we still arent sure what happened to her, however i am comforted that she lived a happy, healthy life outdoors rather than a stressed unhappy one indoors, thats not to say all indoor cats are unhappy though. My OHs mum keeps hers indoors....and im sad to say that although its the cats choice to be indoors, the family has no idea on diet and exercise change required for indoor cats. This is a family where both sons study animal care :bash: so i dread to think how the uninformed owners manage their cats.
> Although its been nearly 5 months i am still crushed Gizmo is gone, but knowing she lived how she was happy rather than wrapped in cotton wool brings me comfort. It is not iresponsible to let cats out, this was what they were domesticated to do...hunt. Just because we find it inconveniant now doesnt give us the right to cause them suffering.
> The average person does much more harm to the ecosystem every day than any cat....but will you be changing the way YOU live? ....no :whistling2:


 
3 of my cats are ex ferals and they manage to live a very happy life in the secure garden and house so it can work. I wouldnt like to keep my lot totally indoors they would drive me nuts.


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## Lutra Garouille (Sep 22, 2011)

Ive not read all the posts but my own baby got hit by a car about a month ago. Im still reeling - but i do not regret letting her out. She was a cat - a hunter pure and simple - she loved the outside and roaming about. She was scared of the road and it just happened that one time she ventured far enough she got hit. 

Cats are outside animals - yes they can be house cats but it depends on the personality. My other cat is a wimp and wont go out of the garden. Partly because shes a bit too fat to jump the fence, but also because she dosent like being far away from me. My other cat just loved to hunt and stake her territory. If i didnt let her out she would go nuts. It isnt good for them if they want to be outside - like people they have different personalities. 

Im gutted about my cat but she had an amazing life, was loved and was happy and free to hunt and run and investigate anything and everything. I did all i could but sometime drivers are just too fast and dont pay enough attention - or sometimes a cat runs out giving no chance for the driver to. I miss her completely but i wont now keep my other cat in and if i get another i wont keep that one in either. You wouldnt have a gecko and keep it in a tiny box because if it had more space it might fall off the glass and die?! (rubbish example but you get the idea).

Some cats are indoor cats - others are outdoors cats. I totally adore my cat and did the one that was hit but i wouldnt change a thing as i wouldnt feel good about not letting her out - she was sooo happy when otuside and that made me so happy too  But its soo hard.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

feorag said:


> Absolutely! :2thumb: I have no problem with that, but I do agree with putting both sides to an argument and giving reasons for it.


100% agree.

Apologies to anyone in this thread that I may have been a bit curt with, except the OP of course, I was seething over the manner in which this thread was started but meant no offence to anyone else. : victory:

Scrumpy still fine today, apparently my wee border terrier slept outside his cage and whined whenever Scrumpy woke up :flrt:


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

My cat had a happy 19 years as an outdoor cat, but he had some roads sense. When we first got him we lived in a little village in Wales, so he had some idea of cars and when we moved here, somehow he managed to not get killed because we have a busy road behind out house. 

But if I were to get a new cat today it would be a house cat. I wouldnt risk it again with a young cat which might not be road savvy and there are to many idiots that will see no issue in shooting a cat.

I think the whole "they need to roam" is a very old fashion idea. If you think that why dont you let your dogs roam in a pack? what about other pets, should rabbits be free roaming as well then for example? 
My friend has 4 house cats and they are in perfect health, get loads of exercise and she knows they will always in there at the end of the day.

I was pro letting cats out but its only over the last few months I have started to change my opinions on the matter. I would rather have a house cat, or a cat proofed garden then risk my cat getting killed or seriously injured. 
As long as enough stimulation is provided inside I think a cat will be perfectly happy to be a house cat.


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

SexyBear77 said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> Apologies to anyone in this thread that I may have been a bit curt with, except the OP of course, I was seething over the manner in which this thread was started but meant no offence to anyone else. : victory:
> 
> Scrumpy still fine today, apparently my wee border terrier slept outside his cage and whined whenever Scrumpy woke up :flrt:


Also I am glad to here that he is on the mend :2thumb:

I did chuckle at his name though :blush:


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## natsuko (Jan 3, 2009)

Lutra Garouille said:


> Ive not read all the posts but my own baby got hit by a car about a month ago. Im still reeling - but i do not regret letting her out. She was a cat - a hunter pure and simple - she loved the outside and roaming about. She was scared of the road and it just happened that one time she ventured far enough she got hit.
> 
> Cats are outside animals - yes they can be house cats but it depends on the personality. My other cat is a wimp and wont go out of the garden. Partly because shes a bit too fat to jump the fence, but also because she dosent like being far away from me. My other cat just loved to hunt and stake her territory. If i didnt let her out she would go nuts. It isnt good for them if they want to be outside - like people they have different personalities.
> 
> ...


Nobody is saying keep them inside 24/7 just that cats should be contained to their owners property which includes gardens, it can be done and cats can still hunt in gardens just provide plants to play with and that attract bugs as cats also like to hunt flies too. It's not rocket science. My dog likes to hunt and roam so can I let him loose to do so as its his instinct too and would make him happy?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

LiquidOnyx said:


> We live in the middle of a row of terraces that backs onto a railway line, so they have no way of accessing the road, luckily! Plus our cats don't tend to venture much further then the neighbors garden.


So they can't jump out of your garden? Can they access the railway line, because trains are much faster and quieter than cars?



SexyBear77 said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> Apologies to anyone in this thread that I may have been a bit curt with, except the OP of course, I was seething over the manner in which this thread was started but meant no offence to anyone else. : victory:
> 
> Scrumpy still fine today, apparently my wee border terrier slept outside his cage and whined whenever Scrumpy woke up :flrt:


It's still a good forum subject though, because of the diversity of the people on here who all want to put their opinion into the melting pot.

I'm glad Scrumpy is doing so well! :2thumb: I must admit I was disappointed when you closed the thread, because I was wondering how we were going to find out how he was.



Drayvan said:


> Havnt read all the posts as i know it will get my goat up :lol2: but i would love to see people try to keep in my cats, they go mad after a few days, out of the 3 of them 2 were semi feral and the other was from a lady whos cat had had kittens, none of them coped well indoors dispite my efforts to keep them in, even just for the night time.


When I bought my first cat, knowing nothing more about cats than the basic knowledge most people have I let him out and the next 2 - all neutered males. 

My garden backs onto a small green area that people use as a shortcut and Pasht, my Aby would only go out of the garden if he couldn't see people there, or when it was dark as he was very nervous and scared of people - he wouldn't even stay out in the garden unless we were out there with him. Merlin, my absolutely *adored* the freedom and spent most of his days outside, calling back now and again to tell us tales of what he'd been up to and then heading off out again and Briagha my Havana got lost and spent the day crying outside someone else's house cos he thought it was ours when he was still a kitten.

In April when he was about 5 Pasht went missing for 10 days and came back skin and bones, filthy dirty and covered in healing scabs, so it looked like he'd been hit by a car. So because I never wanted to go through that again! and coincidentally at the same time I had just bought my first breeding queen, so I couldn't risk the boys bringing back any diseases, I decided to catproof my garden. Merlin patrolled that fence for the best part of a month trying to negotiate getting over it, but he never succeeded and finally gave up - and Somalis are well known for their dexterousness. If it benefited any of the 4 cats, it definitely benefited Pasht, because once the fence was solid (instead of ranch style with big gaps between the planks) he felt safe enough to stay in the garden on his own and spent hours out there peeking through the gaps in the fence watching the world go by, secure in his safety.

None of our succeeding cats (all of which have been bred here) have never even attempted to climb it - they just seem to accept that the garden is their's and are happy with it. Most of them spent most of the day in the house, because that's where we were, even though the door was open for them to go out, but they do enjoy sunbathing out there and chasing butterflies.


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## FreddiesMum (Jan 10, 2007)

SexyBear77 said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> Apologies to anyone in this thread that I may have been a bit curt with, except the OP of course, I was seething over the manner in which this thread was started but meant no offence to anyone else. : victory:
> 
> Scrumpy still fine today, apparently my wee border terrier slept outside his cage and whined whenever Scrumpy woke up :flrt:


Aww glad your wee purrpack is feeling better :smile:


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

SexyBear77 said:


> I think containing cats is cruel. Considering it is MY cat you are referring to (and we now believe he has a wire wound, and hasn't been hit by a car at all), allow me to lose my cool slightly- you have not even had the courtesy to contact me privately before making a thread based on my own animal, basically calling me a bad owner....
> 
> I think its a selfish and narrow minded owner who confines a cat indoors for all its life. Far too often have I seen depressed, overweight and under-enriched indoor cats, fed on incorrect foods and deprived of their natural instincts (roaming/hunting) for the sake of its owner.
> 
> ...


No i didn't think i had to contact you at all as i never mentioned your cat. Do you think you are the only one who has had a cat injured? My thread is about all cats but having the your thread pop up did give me an idea. Look i'm not saying you are a bad owners but i do think all owners are to be at fault because they risking there cats lives and lives of other animals by letting them out. I Cannot understand why containing cats is cruel but letting them shit and piss in peoples gardens. The child comparison was a very weak argument. You can teach a child road safety you can't teach a cat the same thing plus one is a human the other is a cat... Letting cats out is just as irresponsible as letting a dog roam if i let me dogs roam god the amount of stick i would get would be unbelievable. There are ways you can let a cat out the house one is a lead and harness of collar it's much safer and responsible just to chuck them out of the house surely?


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

ryanr1987 said:


> No i didn't think i had to contact you at all as i never mentioned your cat. Do you think you are the only one who has had a cat injured? My thread is about all cats but having the your thread pop up did give me an idea. Look i'm not saying you are a bad owners but i do think all owners are to be at fault because they risking there cats lives and lives of other animals by letting them out. I Cannot understand why containing cats is cruel but letting them shit and piss in peoples gardens. The child comparison was a very weak argument. You can teach a child road safety you can't teach a cat the same thing plus one is a human the other is a cat... Letting cats out is just as irresponsible as letting a dog roam if i let me dogs roam god the amount of stick i would get would be unbelievable. There are ways you can let a cat out the house one is a lead and harness of collar it's much safer and responsible just to chuck them out of the house surely?


I don't want to lose my mod-ship by replying to you how I would like....

So here is a smiley face.



Good day.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

SexyBear77 said:


> I don't want to lose my mod-ship by replying to you how I would like....
> 
> So here is a smiley face.
> 
> ...


No go on...In future if you cannot take honest replies then don't post surely? then make silly comparisons with children lol look i understand that you are upset about your cat but you have to take responsibility for it and i hope for any other of your future cats that you have learnt from this.


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## EquineArcher (Feb 13, 2010)

ryanr1987 said:


> No go on...In future if you cannot take honest replies then don't post surely? then make silly comparisons with children lol look i understand that you are upset about your cat but you have to take responsibility for it and i hope for any other of your future cats that you have learnt from this.


Seriously? Who the hell do you think you are being so damned condescending to others. You do realise you are insulting far more people than me with your childish sweeping statements, don't you. Possibly not, as that would take a level of tact and diplomacy you clearly do not possess. 

Some people have indoor cats, some people have outdoor- whatever an owner wants to do is their choice. Cats are classed as semi-domesticated- to me, a semi-domesticated animal of any species should not be kept in a house all the day long. However, that is just my opinion and I have *zero* right to target other users on here because they do things differently. Not only is it incredibly rude, but it shows a very poor level of intolerance for others. 

As for the children statement- how many kids get knocked down and killed by cars each year? Lots. Kids have road sense (above a certain age) but so do most cats, including mine. You fail to mention my other comparisons; maybe the child one was the only part you could dream up a half-baked reply to?

As for my cats, they will be allowed to roam free until the day they die. I would rather not have cats than keep them locked in a house. I have great respect for those that have enclosed their gardens- however, this is simply not an option available to my cats, and besides, would severely restrict their outside time- the 2 older brothers prefer their own company to that of Scrumpy. 

I suggest you take a step back and consider just how rude and immature you are coming across before you reply again. You wouldn't believe the number of messages I got from other users yesterday expressing varying levels of disgust at the tone and manner of your thread- I also had more than a few suggestions that I lock it. However, you are entitled to your opinion, as are all other users, so I left it alone.

What you are NOT entitled to do it be rude, inflammatory and belittling towards others just because their views don't sit well with your own.

And before anyone bothers, I'll go ahead and report this on your behalf. I'm fair like that. :whistling2:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm not a cat hater but I just can't buy the fact that an owner considers it unfair to keep their cat contained but okay to blight other peoples lives and pets with them.My animals are constantly at risk from a particularly thick skinned ginger moggy who hangs out in my garden trying to get at them.I have to constantly remind myself that it is just an animal doing what it's programmed to do otherwise I'd be tempted to let myself hate it and take innapropriate action.As for roads,there's one been lying dead on the a50,Markfield for 3 days.Don't suppose the owner has a clue.I find that alien to pet keeping.Can't imagine my dog lying cold and dead on the road for 3 days,I'd be combing the land if one became lost,day and night,heartbroken.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

cats allowed to roam outside...

yep... that's where all those kittens come from here... i hate seeing scroungy, half starved feral cats all over the place here...

if your cat is allowed to roam the least you can do is make sure it's spayed or neutered...

cat. cats... cats everywhere!


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## Dave Balls (Jan 26, 2011)

I agree with sexybear, and i hate cats.


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## Charlibob (Jun 21, 2008)

This was a big argument in our house before we got Tabitha, the OH was adamant that cats should be allowed outside but I was the one buying the cat and paying for everything so I got my way (both of them were sold as house cats anyway). Since getting them hes now changed his mind, if we let them out he'd be just like I would, sat at the front door worrying and most probably crying until they came home :blush: 

I got them both to keep company, entertained, cuddles etc. I like how they both follow me around all day everyday (maybe not when I have to take a leap and nearly kill myself trying not to squish them :lol2. I love them both way too much to let them wander around the streets, eating whatever crap people feed them, being attacked by people/cats/cars, the list goes on and on. Theres cat toys everywhere, 3 scratching posts, food/water/cuddles on demand, blankets and beds in every room so we have 2 very happy and healthy cats. Any flies/spiders that come into the house get chased around so they still get to play hunting, they sunbathe in the kitchen lying by the patio doors and on windowsills. 

I would love a cat proofed garden but I think Jiminy would still be able to get out so I think we'll end up with a cat run when we have a suitable garden but they'd only be allowed supervised access after a horrid thread I read not long ago about someones run being broken into to try and steal a coonie :gasp:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

rubberbiscuit said:


> well, good luck teaching a cat to recall!!
> also stopping dogs eating it when you are down the park!!LOL:whistling2:


My cats (now cat and now my mother's) had absolutely perfect recall. Much much better than the dogs. They'd come to a whistle every single time, no matter what was distracting them (I guess my cats are much more food oriented than my dog) and the cats come running from over feilds when they hear the whistle, recall from much a greater distance than my dog :whistling2:

I'm not sure about cats being allowed to free roam. My cats always did when I was at my mother's but then I got my own kitten here and it was hit by a car. I wouldn't ever have a free roaming cat here again, but I would if I was in the middle of the country side. Cats usually stay away from roads if there are feilds to explore. 
I don't like that they kill wildlife either, but I always have a bell on them to try and help that, though they do still catch a lot of young mice seasonally.


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

I've lost count of the number of dead cats I've seen on the main road through our village. And of the number of times cats have run out in front of me at all hours of the day and night.

I don't believe it's safe for cats to be outside, and yes, I do think it's irresponsible of owners to allow them outside for that reason. 

But the danger they pose to our native wildlife is far more of an issue as far as I'm concerned. I spend a lot of time and money encouraging birds into my garden. I don't want to see them massacred by my neighbours' cats thank you very much. Neither do I want to have to worry about the interest the same cats show in my bantam poultry. No-one would bat an eyelid if I killed foxes or rats that were a danger to them but I wonder what would happen if I shot a cat for worrying my stock! Left to roam cats are a nuisance. They may well be doing what is natural, but they are not a native member of our wildlife and they do a huge amount of damage.

And yes I do have cats. They are happy, healthy indoor cats!


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

SexyBear77 said:


> Seriously? Who the hell do you think you are being so damned condescending to others. You do realise you are insulting far more people than me with your childish sweeping statements, don't you. Possibly not, as that would take a level of tact and diplomacy you clearly do not possess.
> 
> Some people have indoor cats, some people have outdoor- whatever an owner wants to do is their choice. Cats are classed as semi-domesticated- to me, a semi-domesticated animal of any species should not be kept in a house all the day long. However, that is just my opinion and I have *zero* right to target other users on here because they do things differently. Not only is it incredibly rude, but it shows a very poor level of intolerance for others.
> 
> ...


You have lost the plot mate my post is perfectly mature your the one who is having a hissy fit because i don't agree on cats roaming and gave my point. All i said was be responsible for your own cats end of. Your the one who has reacted in a very immature manner so i think you are very confused here. Show me which bit of my post was immature? as for the child statement do you think it's right for children to roam in the road on there own at a certain age? i do not and i do not think dogs nor cats or whatever should be allowed to roam either.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

cats decimate native wildlife...











Feral Cats and the Rapid Decline in Bird Populations | Earth End - New Beginning


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## LiquidOnyx (Aug 23, 2011)

feorag said:


> So they can't jump out of your garden? Can they access the railway line, because trains are much faster and quieter than cars?


They can, but they never go further then next door, so no chance of them ending up near a road. 

Sparky, the male, used to pretty much live on the railway when he was younger, but he never had a problem. All the cats around here go onto the line and there's never been an accident. They all seem to have some rail sense!

Also, cause of the station and crossing at the end of the street, the trains are slow and easy to predict. I know Sparky knew that the beeping sound meant a train was coming!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

An emotive subject and one some it seems cannot avoid taking personally. I think people arguing against allowing cats to free roam are always going to be very passionate about it, those fighting for change will always do so with a passion which will out shine those fighting for the status quo. Fighting for something different to the accepted social norm can leave you feeling you are alone/outnumbered/the underdog and I think this accounts for the aggressive stance some can take. 

The fact they are legally allowed to free roam is an anomaly. From both the side of the being responsible for the welfare of your pets and abandonment laws and from the side of being illegal to release non native species it is hard to understand why they are allowed to. No other non native predator is allowed to free roam in fact no other non native animal is allowed to free roam.

I do think it could be hard to watch a cat use to going out being kept in, but those getting their pets from a cats home, where they will have been enclosed for a period of time and in almost all cases adjusted, and would need to be kept in for a period of time anyway it is hard to understand why you would then decide to let them out again. More over those going and buying a new kitten and then some weeks/months down the line deciding this is the day they can go face all the dangers of the world alone...well that thought process is completely alien to me. I don't think those that have cats that free roam will wake one morning and decide to not allow their cat out again, but I do hope one day the idea of introducing a kitten to the idea will be well in the past. 

I would be happy if the change took the next 10-15 years, slowly naturally as old age strikes there was a decreasing number of cats still alive that remember and continue the old outdated free roaming way of life....but the change really needs to start.


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## ryanr1987 (Mar 7, 2009)

Have pm'd sexy bear but wanted to say it on here that some of my comments came across very insensitive and for that i am sorry. i shouldn't of really made this thread so soon after her loss and i'll let a mod lock this thread for a good while and to clean up some of my insensitive comments. I do think this is a good topic but it was too soon.

So can a mod please lock this and clean this up for a while : victory:


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Pebbles was made to stay in after his surgery omg you would have thought we were killing him, but he doesnt go far, infact I know where he goes cos I can see him go either up the tree outside a neighbours house think he does it just to annoy her, its council property but she has chased him many times and thrown stuff at him. Other way he goes is old john's garden, he sits and watches them feed the birds waits till birds are finished then gets his share of fresh chicken, cheeky. Tinks was happy to stay in didnt bother her, she goes out to the green does her business in the bush then comes right back in again. 
I have lost alot but its my choice to let them go out, and you can take dogs LONG WALKS to the park, you cant take a cat to the part so excuse me for NOT keeping my cats in, like you says MY CHOICE.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

sarahc said:


> I'm not a cat hater but I just can't buy the fact that an owner considers it unfair to keep their cat contained but okay to blight other peoples lives and pets with them.My animals are constantly at risk from a particularly thick skinned ginger moggy who hangs out in my garden trying to get at them.I have to constantly remind myself that it is just an animal doing what it's programmed to do otherwise I'd be tempted to let myself hate it and take innapropriate action.As for roads,there's one been lying dead on the a50,Markfield for 3 days.Don't suppose the owner has a clue.I find that alien to pet keeping.Can't imagine my dog lying cold and dead on the road for 3 days,I'd be combing the land if one became lost,day and night,heartbroken.


 
Chase it away with a water hose, always works, I am a cat lover but I do understand that alot of folks really hate cats, my neighbours are always asked do my cats bother you, only one has replied yip digs up my flowers, Ive replaced her flowers and she was happy, told her to kick his back side if she catches him there again (this was salem) none of them are bothered by the 2 I have the now, infact they find them very sweet and dont annoy them in anyway. If they dont see them they ask are they ok worried about them.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Oddly enough my cats seem to have road sence, I watch them waiting till cars go by then crossing, even looked both ways, nearly fainted at the sight, probs think there human and not cats. Tinks walks along the house edges, never out in the open waits till street is quiet then trots accross road to the house. Pebbles crosses at the same 2 points at the end of our drive (straight for the tree hehehe) or off towards johns & marys, greedy sod.


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