# Anyone against using RUBS?



## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

Okay so I've recently been looking around at lizards and snakes for an idea for what to get next, and I think to start off with a corn is a good idea for my first snake, if not do correct me 

The thing is I would quite like to see it grow up so would prefer to get a hatchling, and considered using a RUB if i get one, for ease of access, cleaning and stuff and just because such a tiny snake would surely get stressed out in a giant vivarium? I know you can get small vivariums, but I already have a spare which is too big for a corn hatchling.

Ok sorry im ranting, heres the deal. I told my boyfriend and he just plain went off on one saying I cant its cruel etc?

Am I being selfish by considering cost and space and choosing a RUB over a viv?


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

vivarium is just a word used to describe a reptiles housing. So a RUB is technically a vivarium; there's not difference between similar sized RUB's and vivs


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

Of course I understand taking into consideration the size that will be needed and upgrading as it grows.

Thanks for your reply, I just needed reassurance from someone who actually knew anything about snakes (my boyfriend doesnt).


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

What size would I need for a hatchling/young corn?
And what size would I need once it started growing?


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## white (May 16, 2009)

9 litre for a hatchling going onto a 33 or 50 for an adult.


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

white said:


> 9 litre for a hatchling going onto a 33 or 50 for an adult.


Cool I was just checking the 9L and 10L ones out  Thank you! Should be getting one next week then when I get paid, deserve a treat! What heatmats and stats are reccomended?


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## white (May 16, 2009)

you want a heat mat big enough to cover a third of the rub and you can use a mat stat.


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

white said:


> you want a heat mat big enough to cover a third of the rub and you can use a mat stat.


 
okay, thanks for bearing with all the questions, just dont wanna get anything wrong!

this will seem super dumb, and feel free to laugh at me, but what about ventilation in them?


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## white (May 16, 2009)

Drill about a dozen holes in both ends but leave the sides alone.


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

Thank you for being so helpful White! :flrt:


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## white (May 16, 2009)

No worries,anything else i can help you with?.Where are you buying the corn from?


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

white said:


> No worries,anything else i can help you with?.Where are you buying the corn from?


Me and the girl that introduced me to reps went for a drive around locally but the pet shops down here aren't very good and are very overpriced, so been scouring gumtree, preloved and stuff like that for them, have looked on here too but most of the time people are too far away!


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## white (May 16, 2009)

what are you looking for,i live near you so may be able to help.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

*Anyone against using RUBS? *

*yeah. me.*


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

Well just a hatchling/young corn. Not too bothered about morphs as it's my first time with a snake and I think the normals are gorgeous anyway! Although I do like the albino's, got a weakness for them!


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

HABU said:


> *Anyone against using RUBS? *
> 
> *yeah. me.*


May I ask why? Just because I've never used them so it's nice to get opinions


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

leighlian-x said:


> May I ask why? Just because I've never used them so it's nice to get opinions


 
i just think that a baby corn say, needs a habitat rather than a sensory deprived, germ free, static habitat... 

i think rubs work.... i think snakes like them accordingly....

but a big glass cage where a critter can roam is better...


a black rat snake here in kentucky looks better than in a walmart tub... tubs are for leftovers....


no wonder there's so many escapes...


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## ink&reps (Sep 16, 2010)

HABU said:


> i just think that a baby corn say, needs a habitat rather than a sensory deprived, germ free, static habitat...
> 
> i think rubs work.... i think snakes like them accordingly....
> 
> ...


A RUB is just as good as a viv, tank or cage if not better. How does a snake escape from a RUB ?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

ink&reps said:


> A RUB is just as good as a viv, tank or cage if not better. How does a snake escape from a RUB ?


 
a rub is a tupperware container... it's too easy for novices to not "click" that plastic lid so well... right?


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## ink&reps (Sep 16, 2010)

HABU said:


> a rub is a tupperware container... it's too easy for novices to not "click" that plastic lid so well... right?
> 
> image


 
A tupperware container is diff to a RUB the handles on a RUB lift up to lock the lid securely unlike tupperware. It is easy to forget but its also easy to forget to put a rubber stop inbetween the sliding glass doors of a viv, making it just as easy for a snake to escape


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

ink&reps said:


> A tupperware container is diff to a RUB the handles on a RUB lift up to lock the lid securely unlike tupperware. It is easy to forget but its also easy to forget to put a rubber stop inbetween the sliding glass doors of a viv, making it just as easy for a snake to escape


 rub= tupperware 2.0


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)




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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

Ok guys, I understand everybody has opinions and that I welcomed both 

However, I do believe that good quality rubs would be escape safe and my mum wouldnt appreciate me stealing our iron to hold a lid on


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## ink&reps (Sep 16, 2010)

google rub( make aure safe search is on ) then tupperware.

what if you forget to put the book and iron back on? easy mistake to make. I think whatever vivarium used there is a risk of escape


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## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

what them cheap and convenient plastic tubs :roll:

all depends on the animal being half-blind or not. but putting a creature with keen eyesight into one of these would be a disgraceful act from the keeper. and there will be plenty doing it too :devil:

and them that do: take your glasses of and replace the lenses with plastic from your *really unsuitable box*, keep them in for a couple of days then come back here and tell us why your "well loved pet" has to live with that sort of vision in it's sorry enclosure :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Graham (Jan 27, 2007)

I use RUBs for temporary housing, but in the long term they seem rather unsatisfactory as they don't really display the animal very well, the plastic is far from clear, and I don't really see the point in keeping a beautiful animal that you can only see when you take the lid off?

I can see the point if you're a breeder and have lots of animals to house, it's a good short term solution, easy, cheap, and hygienic, but who really wants a translucent plastic box in the corner which may or may not have something in it worth looking at?


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## dionator (Oct 16, 2008)

RUB- Really Useful Box 
I have had many snakes escape from a vivarium but never from a Really Useful Box.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

I am using a faunarium and there great, my baby corn (6 months) seems to have loads of space in there and he's 1ft 6 inches. Snakes spend most of the day still, wrapped up in there hide. Once your corn outgrows the rub or faunarium get a viv. There is nothing cruel about it, I had the same initial conceptions but my corn is happy as could be in its faunarium and will be moving into its viv when its big enough and the viv is finished.


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## spatte88 (Jun 29, 2009)

Meko said:


> vivarium is just a word used to describe a reptiles housing. So a RUB is technically a vivarium; there's not difference between similar sized RUB's and vivs


Totally agree it's a box at the end of the day, though must admit I hate the plain paper bottom interiors some use. Can still make the interior interesting or as close to nature as poss for the rep.


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

ink&reps said:


> what if you forget to put the book and iron back on? easy mistake to make. I think whatever vivarium used there is a risk of escape


 What if you forget to close the glass on the vivarium?What if you forget to put the wedge/viv lock on? ..... You can make those mistakes on whatever you use


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## ink&reps (Sep 16, 2010)

TheDogMan said:


> What if you forget to close the glass on the vivarium?What if you forget to put the wedge/viv lock on? ..... You can make those mistakes on whatever you use


 
Thats the point I was making, habu said that its easy for someone to forget to clip a rub lid on so i said.......


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

s6t6nic6l said:


> what them cheap and convenient plastic tubs :roll:
> 
> all depends on the animal being half-blind or not. but putting a creature with keen eyesight into one of these :


Depends entirely on the snake... some of them do a lot BETTER not being able to see the giant monkeymonster wandering around outside.


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## Lozza.Bella (Apr 24, 2010)

s6t6nic6l said:


> take your glasses of and replace the lenses with plastic from your *really unsuitable box*, keep them in for a couple of days then come back here and tell us why your "well loved pet" has to live with that sort of vision in it's sorry enclosure :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Ok, so your animal can see through the wood that your viv is made out of? There is a teeny window that your keen animal spends the evening not comprehending why it can't get through it?? :bash:
So in effect it doesn't make much difference???
I use RUBs for my leos, they have lino flooring, nice hides either shop bought or home made and decorated, they have greenery, heat, food and water....... and my interaction. 
I also use RUBs for my Royals, and they do very well in those too. 
At the end of the day this is a debate that will go on forever, you either prefer RUBs or vivs, it's a matter of the owners personal choice and preference. 

Leighlian, I think you will make the right decision which ever choice you make, and congratulations on your new snake


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

leighlian-x said:


> Okay so I've recently been looking around at lizards and snakes for an idea for what to get next, and I think to start off with a corn is a good idea for my first snake, if not do correct me
> 
> The thing is I would quite like to see it grow up so would prefer to get a hatchling, and considered using a RUB if i get one, for ease of access, cleaning and stuff and just because such a tiny snake would *surely get stressed out in a giant vivarium?* I know you can get small vivariums, but I already have a spare which is too big for a corn hatchling.
> 
> ...


:lol2:that is all.... personally id say its down to preference but i cant really think of any real reason that more space would ever be a bad thing the "help find food" or security reasons both seem like total bs to me ,not to mention rubs look ugly dont allow for good viewing (my opinion you may feel differently...)whats the point in owning an amazing exotic pet to put it in a box?get a nice big viv decorate it naturally and the hobby will be far more rewarding:2thumb:

as for space snakes frogs lizards are some of the oldest creatures on the planet they do fine in the wild without having everything contained if anything id say a bit of food scarcity encourages them to hunt and exercise :2thumb:i find my darts are far more interesting between feeding days because they will actively search giving them something to do keeping me entertained and providing them with exercise....also before any1 says anything i dont starve them to watch there is ample food in their viv at all times its just hiding meaning they activly need to search


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## Paul F (Aug 17, 2010)

It is all a matter for the individual owner.

Personally, I'm a large viv man. If you use RUBs, don't waste the next 2 minutes and read this as you will waste your own valuable time hating me, and not take any notice of it either:gasp::whistling2:

My reasoning is that I try to provide the largest space I can for what is in fact a very active hunter.
Yes, some snakes spend a lot of time in their hides (and I believe you should supply a number of these no matter how large/small the enclosure.) But quite often this snake will be out and about roaming around at night. It cannot do this in a tiny plastic box. My Sinaloan milk spends all day in his favourite hide, but come evening time he is up at the glass waiting to be let out.:2thumb:
The thing that really annoys me though is when I see people saying " You have to keep a juvenile snake in a RUB or it gets stressed out." One guy on here said that young snakes are AGORAPHOBIC!!!!!!! Take a look outside where wild snakes live, in the wild, it's MASSIVE:gasp:
My juvenile Gopher went straight into a 4ft viv as soon as I got him at around 14" long. He is certainly tame and stress free, and when he gets to full size, I will be upping it to 6ft version.
The other MYTH is that Royals have to live in RUBs. Mine lived all it's life (and even bred) in a converted 5x2x2 fish tank. Now I will hold my hands up here, a fish tank is far from ideal for keeping snakes in, but it was a very long time ago, and to be honest, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the set up as temps/gradient were fine in my front room! It never, ever used a hide and again was a very active and confident snake (for a Royal at least:whistling2

Personally, unless you are breeding snakes and selling them on, either as you see it as the ultimate pinnacle of snake keeping and welfare, or to finance your hobby, I can't see why you would want to have dozens of specimens that you just cannot see unless you unsnap the lid of an opaque box tucked away on a warm shelf. To me the idea of the hobby is to see the natural beauty of one of natures most advanced predators in as natural environment as I can provide inside the confines of a totally unnatural house.
And yes, snakes breed very successfully in RUBs, but if you let a convict's wife in to see him for a few hours, he would too:gasp:

At the end of the day though, if it works for you, and your animals are healthy, who's to say who is right or wrong.


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## gecko lady (Jun 26, 2010)

Ssthisto said:


> Depends entirely on the snake... some of them do a lot BETTER not being able to see the giant monkeymonster wandering around outside.


 That was exactly my thought! and you can make your RUB to be as naural and look as nice as a viv, you may even be able to afford to have a bigger space and decor for you rep if you use a RUB.. 
this is my opinion though - and i do keep my snakes in both a RUB for the baby and a viv for the adult.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Graham said:


> I use RUBs for temporary housing, but in the long term they seem rather unsatisfactory as they don't really display the animal very well, the plastic is far from clear, and I don't really see the point in keeping a beautiful animal that you can only see when you take the lid off?
> 
> I can see the point if you're a breeder and have lots of animals to house, it's a good short term solution, easy, cheap, and hygienic, but who really wants a translucent plastic box in the corner which may or may not have something in it worth looking at?


 :no1::2thumb:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

most escapes are from plastic tubs... rubs...

do the research... they are fine maybe but you do get a very high level of escapes with plastic food containers... which are all that rubs are right?


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## gecko lady (Jun 26, 2010)

This is a 35 litre really usefull box


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

HABU said:


> plastic food containers... which are all that rubs are right?


No, a branded Really Useful Box is not a "food container" (they're not air-tight, and they're more correctly "office supplies") ... and with their LOCKING lids (which can even have a padlock fitted if you're really concerned) they're more secure than a fishtank with a board and a brick on top.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> No, a branded Really Useful Box is not a "food container" (they're not air-tight, and they're more correctly "office supplies") ... and with their LOCKING lids (which can even have a padlock fitted if you're really concerned) they're more secure than a fishtank with a board and a brick on top.


i have an iron... no brick...


i thought a rub was a generic plastic box like they sell at walmart... not a specificly designed tub...










not this then?


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## DippyDazza (May 5, 2008)

I think this is definately a case of personal opinion... Obviously you are never going to be able to replicate the wilderness of any given reptile that you keep but my opinion is to try damn hard to do it : victory:

For both the owner and the animal i feel that the enjoyment of the hobby is greatly increased by replicating natural environments. I keep Leo's and have just finished kitting out a 4ft Vivarium for them... I have been keeping my leo's for 4 years now and have since upgraded from a 24x12x12 to a 48x18x18. This might sound strange but in the past two days i have noticed the leos doing a damn sight more exploring than i ever have before, they seem to be loving it and watching them hunt for their food is wicked :2thumb:

I like to think that my hard work has improved their happiness :flrt:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

HABU said:


> i thought a rub was a generic plastic box like they sell at walmart... not a specificly designed tub...
> 
> image
> 
> not this then?


No, that's a Rubbermaid plastic tub.

There is a picture earlier in the thread of a branded Really Useful Box - with the blue locking lid handles.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

good... no rubbermaid crap...

but a question... why do people seem to think a snake needs to be in a tiny box and not out in the open in aq big cage where the owner can observe it?

is not nature a very big habitat?

are there any detrimental effects from being confined in a "cell"...?


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## leighlian-x (Nov 9, 2010)

*Thanks*

OK I just wanted to thank all you for your opinions and advice, not sure whether I stated in my original post that I have a vivarium that it will go into when it's bigger and that the RUB would be for when it was small


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

HABU said:


> good... no rubbermaid crap...
> 
> but a question... why do people seem to think a snake needs to be in a tiny box and not out in the open in aq big cage where the owner can observe it?
> 
> ...


Some of the RUB tubs are as big or bigger than some vivaria and some glass tanks - and it's also about how you use the space. For example, I'm guessing your black kingsnake's in a 10-gallon aquarium, based on the size of the objects in it? That 35-litre RUB is approximately the same internal volume.

Some of my snakes react negatively to being able to *see* me, as well - they don't do as well in glass-fronted enclosures, and don't feed as readily. Others HAVE to be in vivariums, as they react negatively to being in tubs. It's not one size fits all in any case.


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## SandiskReptiles (May 13, 2009)

leighlian-x said:


> Okay so I've recently been looking around at lizards and snakes for an idea for what to get next, and I think to start off with a corn is a good idea for my first snake, if not do correct me
> 
> The thing is I would quite like to see it grow up so would prefer to get a hatchling, and considered using a RUB if i get one, for ease of access, cleaning and stuff and just because such a tiny snake would surely get stressed out in a giant vivarium? I know you can get small vivariums, but I already have a spare which is too big for a corn hatchling.
> 
> ...


I have never kept snakes but have looked after hognose and corns. Personally if i were to get a first snake of my own it'd be a corn snake.

As regards RUB or Viv i actually would say either. RUB's are good for easier access, easier cleaning, and so forth. My friend who's snakes i look after regular when he goes on holiday 3 times a year...he has all his 12 snakes (only hognose and corn snakes he keeps) all are in RUB's. They appear to be quite happy in them and they have been in them since babies. When they out grow one RUB he just goes and upgrades to a larger RUB.

RUB's save on abit more space, and are much cheaper than a viv.

Thats just me! I personally think that the vivs are just to make an attraction for guests. someone comes in and sees a big wooden thing with glass doors and things OMG something is cool in that big box! 

Anywho...hope my input kinda helped or something.


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## SandiskReptiles (May 13, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Some of the RUB tubs are as big or bigger than some vivaria and some glass tanks - and it's also about how you use the space. For example, I'm guessing your black kingsnake's in a 10-gallon aquarium, based on the size of the objects in it? That 35-litre RUB is approximately the same internal volume.
> 
> Some of my snakes react negatively to being able to *see* me, as well - they don't do as well in glass-fronted enclosures, and don't feed as readily. Others HAVE to be in vivariums, as they react negatively to being in tubs. It's not one size fits all in any case.


Sorry Ssthisto to jump in on your post here! But i just wanted to say i agree that its all on the individual snake itself. My friend has 12 snakes, and most of them are fine in their lovely rub tubs however - a few of them hate the tubs so they are kept in viv's to suit their personality. Not saying they are attention seekers if you like but they just dislike the tubs. Where as some of the snakes are more content being in the tubs as they are hidden abit more and more shy than the others in vivs. 

I think the debate of RUBS vs VIVs will always go on, so many people disagree with one over the other.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

Some of my snakes simply wont feed if they arent kept in a smaller area...eg a RUB. 
I go with what my snake seems happy with. My king snake is kept in a large viv as he doesnt *seem* happy in anything else. 
Yet I have a corn that is a nightmare and I have to wait till he has completly out grown his Rub before putting him into anything bigger otherwise he just wont eat and *seems* very stressed. 

I have had people tell me I am cruel for keeping my snakes in RUBS and that I only do it so I can keep more snakes, but personally if my snakes are feeding etc and *seem* happy in them then I will continue to use them.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> Some of the RUB tubs are as big or bigger than some vivaria and some glass tanks - and it's also about how you use the space. For example, I'm guessing your black kingsnake's in a 10-gallon aquarium, based on the size of the objects in it? That 35-litre RUB is approximately the same internal volume.
> 
> Some of my snakes react negatively to being able to *see* me, as well - they don't do as well in glass-fronted enclosures, and don't feed as readily. Others HAVE to be in vivariums, as they react negatively to being in tubs. It's not one size fits all in any case.












yes... my little one is in a 10 gallon tank... screen lid and light... old school...: victory:


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## haunted-havoc (Aug 6, 2009)

tbh i think its down to personal preference, the animal, and the need

its like people. some people would be much happier in a mansion, some people much happier in a 1 bed flat.

i use both but for different animals
my corn and leos are in vivs

and my GAL is in a rub

they require different habitats and different "containers" give different things.

as someone already said, some animals prefer certain conditions over others

however, this being said. beside all preferences and bias'. one good things that RUBS can offer, are very good quarantine tanks, which is something that everyone should practice religiously


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## NickBenger (Nov 18, 2010)

haunted-havoc said:


> however, this being said. beside all preferences and bias'. one good things that RUBS can offer, are very good quarantine tanks, which is something that everyone should practice religiously


They do this at bristol zoo.. : victory:


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## Jeffers3 (May 18, 2010)

This is an interesting thread, but I think there's more than a slight tendency to anthropomorphise snakes. They are not human and will view their surroundings very differently to us. They have very small brains and no concept of aesthetics. As long as they have correct temps, humidity, suitable hides and a bit of room, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference to them what they're kept in.

That said, I'd prefer to make an enclosure look natural, but this is to please me, not the resident. I don't want a load of plastic boxes in my front room, but like having attractive vivs.


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I am using a RUB until my snake is fully grown, then will swap to a glass fronted viv.

However really I am posting to say I have to argue with those saying that the wild is very open yes there is a lot of it, but the snake would rarely if ever choose to sit in the open other than where completely necessary to fulfil heating needs. 

It would move around amongst hedgerows, through grasslands, undergrowth etc etc etc rather than be exposed in the complete open, so yes I fully believe a snake can become intimidated by space in a viv where the keeper is giving large amounts of space and no covering substrates.


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