# Can I house any phibs with mourning geckos?



## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

I was thinking maybe small tree frogs maybe dart frogs, would they be ok? Anything else that would work


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Depends on your viv size. I have heard they can be kept with darts but never tried it myself. Sure someone will come along and advise soon.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Currently in 30cm cube although could upgrade


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

mranimal said:


> Currently in 30cm cube although could upgrade


You would definitely need something much bigger.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

It's the perfect size for mourner geckos so I thought it might be good for some phibs 2


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

mranimal said:


> It's the perfect size for mourner geckos so I thought it might be good for some phibs 2


Exactly-it may be the perfect size for what's in it now but if you want to try and cram more animals in (which I would advise against anyway) you're going to need more space. It's like me saying "Well my 2 pygmy chameleons get on fine in a 30x30x45 Exo, my 4 juvenile e.anthonyi are in the same size viv too. Let's lob the lot in together". It's going to cause more negatives than positives. Either upgrade your viv size after doing *tons* of research and getting loads of experience or just get a second tank for whichever new species you want to get.


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Are they young geckos?That is a tiny vivarium for such an active species.You certainly cannot keep amphibians and geckos in that together.


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

colinm said:


> Are they young geckos?That is a tiny vivarium for such an active species.You certainly cannot keep amphibians and geckos in that together.


I personally wouldn't keep a single phib or lizard in a 30 cube Exo and I don't see the point of them. Once you've sorted your drainage, your substrate and your plants there's bugger all space left for the animals to do anything in which is why I'd never even think about buying one.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Sub adults - it's fine for 3 adults coz they r tiny geckos


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## colinm (Sep 20, 2008)

Aa 30x 30cm vivarium is tiny.I keep similar sized geckos in 45 x 45 x 60cm vivaria.

But to get back to your original question I wouldn`t consider amphibians with the geckos in that size vivarium,you cannot offer the temperaure gradients and different habitats that each need in that size vivarium.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

The vivs size for morning geckos will be ok for a couple/trio so long as there are lots of hiding places etc mine are in 14 inch cubes. 

However, even though its the minimum recommended size i wouldn't put anything else in there. The best way to think about it is if you want to mix species is find the minimum size for both species and add them together. That will give you some idea of the size of the habitat they will need. If you get a bigger viv some of the smaller darts and the smaller reed frogs can be kept with morning geckos. The issues is occasionally the odd baby may be taken as food by the froggies. 

jay


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## Kiel (Aug 20, 2009)

Can't help thinking most amphibians would require signifantly higher humidity than the geckos too.


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

Spikebrit said:


> The best way to think about it is if you want to mix species is find the minimum size for both species and add them together.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree completely with this statement - IMO that is not a good way to think about it. The best way to think about is:

1) Determine if the animals would naturally co-exist.
2) If so, do they co-exist harmoniously (I.e. no aggression or other stressors).
3) If so, do they both inhabit a habitat the entirety of which can be reproduced in a small (in this case VERY small) viv? At this point I challenge you to find a cubic metre of habitat anywhere that contains a representative of each species you have in mind (i.e. being present in the same jungle does not translate to being present in the same vivarium-sized plot...).
4) Do they require the same food source: If yes, will one or other be out-competed? If No, will the food items for one species bother the other species?
5) Are you looking to breed, because if so it is highly probable that there will be negative effects of mixing.
6) In the highly unlikely event that all of the above are met, ask your self whether it wouldn't just be easier to have two vivaria and avoid the inevitable complications?

Nick


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

DrNick said:


> I'm sorry, but I have to disagree completely with this statement - IMO that is not a good way to think about it. The best way to think about is:
> 
> 1) Determine if the animals would naturally co-exist.
> 2) If so, do they co-exist harmoniously (I.e. no aggression or other stressors).
> ...


Without taking this into a debate. the above can be assumed minus point one in the case of dart frogs, if anyone has knowledge of the three species discussed in my post. Since the main topic of discussion was space this is what i was referring to. There are also some other points that need to be considered in most situations if you wish to list them, generally referring to parasites and toxins and their transference between species, especially in cross continental species mixing. 

Jay


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

How about we simplify this considerably, and answer the question with the simplesty reasoning possible?

Has mranimal experience of keeping amphibians? Has mranimal experience of keeping any of the amphibians he is considering keeping? The answer would appear to be no. As such, MrAnimal is going to be learning how to keep amphibians here, how to maintain humidity etc etc. As such, ignoring every other reason for not mixing, MrAnimal would be ill advised trying to do this whilst also trying to meet the needs of the geckos at the same time.

Keep them seperately first, get used to meeting the needs of the particular animal, THEN look into mixing if you really must. If you don't have the will, money or space to keep them seperately, then your reasons for wanting to mix in the first place are the wrong ones.

What I am saying here is, if you don't even have experience of keeping an animal, the last thing you need is to complicate things further by trying to mix them with another.

Also, MrAnimal please do your research as well as asking questions. The usual suspsects will throw a paddy with me for saying this, but this has been answered 100s of times in the last year alone, with the same answers given each and every time.

Ade


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

Wolfenrook said:


> How about we simplify this considerably, and answer the question with the simplesty reasoning possible?
> 
> Has mranimal experience of keeping amphibians? Has mranimal experience of keeping any of the amphibians he is considering keeping? The answer would appear to be no. As such, MrAnimal is going to be learning how to keep amphibians here, how to maintain humidity etc etc. As such, ignoring every other reason for not mixing, MrAnimal would be ill advised trying to do this whilst also trying to meet the needs of the geckos at the same time.
> 
> ...


completely agree, and in reality the situation described by the OP it isn't going to work. 

I think like you said it is possible, but the OP needs a bit more experience and resaerch before even considering this path. There seems to be a massive interest in mixed vivariums recently. 

On this note i rescued some green anoles the other week that had been unsuccessfully mixed by a guy who had the best of intentions but had neither the space, expereince, skills, knowledge, or the correct species for it to work. 

Jay


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

Wolfenrook said:


> Has mranimal experience of keeping amphibians?


You're right - that should have been number one!!!


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

DrNick said:


> You're right - that should have been number one!!!


And that's why I mentioned it in my post on page 1


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

DrNick said:


> You're right - that should have been number one!!!


As mentioned, it gets a bit tedious repeating the same things over and over.


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Spikebrit said:


> On this note i rescued some green anoles the other week that had been unsuccessfully mixed by a guy who had the best of intentions but had neither the space, expereince, skills, knowledge, or the correct species for it to work.


What had he tried to mix with if you don't mind me asking please Jay? By all means PM me if you'd prefer.


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

ronnyjodes said:


> What had he tried to mix with if you don't mind me asking please Jay? By all means PM me if you'd prefer.


The person isnt on the forums i dont think and it will lead as a warning to others.

The guy who i collected the anoles from had tried to mix, anoles including various males, with long tail lizards, and unknown Indonesian skink, babrber skinks, and something else which had already died in a 3 x1 x1 foot fish tank. The others had been rehomed (or died i think really) before i'd been called, there was only one longtail and the skink left plus the anoles. I was only allowed to take the anoles. Hopefully the others will be OK now, but i have my doubts. 

I'm by no means adverse to mixed species as I have various mixed vivariums here but the above was just thrown together with hope, luck and ignorance. 

jay


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

It's people like that Jay who give the rest of us a bad name! If people want to mix something in a fish tank, they should stick to tropical fish.

Ade


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> The person isnt on the forums i dont think and it will lead as a warning to others.
> 
> *The guy who i collected the anoles from had tried to mix, anoles including various males, with long tail lizards, and unknown Indonesian skink, babrber skinks, and something else which had already died in a 3 x1 x1 foot fish tank. The others had been rehomed (or died i think really) before i'd been called, there was only one longtail and the skink left plus the anoles. I was only allowed to take the anoles. Hopefully the others will be OK now, but i have my doubts. *
> 
> ...


 :gasp:

As you know, Jay, I'm not totally against it either- so long as the qualifiers already mentioned are taken into account.


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## mranimal (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks guys - just what I thought, just wanted to make sure though coz it would make a cool display
And I have had experience with phibs when I worked in an exotic pet store although I have never owned any apart from fully aquatic African dwarf frogs


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Spikebrit said:


> The person isnt on the forums i dont think and it will lead as a warning to others.
> 
> The guy who i collected the anoles from had tried to mix, anoles including various males, with long tail lizards, and unknown Indonesian skink, babrber skinks, and something else which had already died in a 3 x1 x1 foot fish tank. The others had been rehomed (or died i think really) before i'd been called, there was only one longtail and the skink left plus the anoles. I was only allowed to take the anoles. Hopefully the others will be OK now, but i have my doubts.
> 
> ...


That just seems like he lobbed stuff in and hoped for the best. If he'd have left it at the anoles and long tails he could have potentially been fine as these have been known to mix fairly well, even with USA or grey tree frogs so there *are* species that are known to mix successfully but I'd say get a good year or two under your belt caring for the species individually, learning their habits and personalities before even thinking about mixing. It's something I'm getting to the stage of being ready to attempt but only because I know my animals inside out.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

I would love to set up a really big mixed display viv, one day- but it would have to be *really* big, and it would have to involve species that I know well and have kept for years and have reason to think would not adversely affect each other, providing an overall environment that they can all live in while still accomodating their individual needs in terms of light, humidity, temps, refuges, basking spots and territories.* Not* a short-term project! :lol2:


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## Spikebrit (Oct 23, 2006)

ronnyjodes said:


> That just seems like he lobbed stuff in and hoped for the best. If he'd have left it at the anoles and long tails he could have potentially been fine as these have been known to mix fairly well, even with USA or grey tree frogs so there *are* species that are known to mix successfully but I'd say get a good year or two under your belt caring for the species individually, learning their habits and personalities before even thinking about mixing. It's something I'm getting to the stage of being ready to attempt but only because I know my animals inside out.


I'm pritty sure all he did was buy things and lob them together. Im hoping i get a call and can take the others but I doubt it. 

I have a few mixed set ups. My favourite is a large viv with a breeding colonie of anoles, long tails, Grey tree frogs and USA greens, in a heavily planted viv. (actually thiking of selling the viv and moving the animals to another viv). I've had this particular tanks running for 8 years now I think



Ron Magpie said:


> I would love to set up a really big mixed display viv, one day- but it would have to be *really* big, and it would have to involve species that I know well and have kept for years and have reason to think would not adversely affect each other, providing an overall environment that they can all live in while still accomodating their individual needs in terms of light, humidity, temps, refuges, basking spots and territories.* Not* a short-term project! :lol2:


Mixed vivs really are awesome if you set it up correctly. But when thiings go wrong they really go wrong so you need spare tanks and be quick in their to seperate them. I actually never planned to mix, i just aquired them like that origionally and then added the frogs. 

Jay


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

Spikebrit said:


> *Mixed vivs really are awesome if you set it up correctly. But when thiings go wrong they really go wrong so you need spare tanks and be quick in their to seperate them*. I actually never planned to mix, i just aquired them like that origionally and then added the frogs.
> 
> Jay


I _know_ this stuff, Jay, that was my point. I certainly don't have time, money or space to do it any time soon! :lol2:


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