# frogs and toads



## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

ive been looking into these, but cant decide which ones for me. i would like one thats low maintinance and one i can handle...no dangerous effects etc. i like the idea of a nice fat toad, but i heard costa rican green tree frogs are nice too. the only frog that seemed for me was the white tree frog and i read theyre friendly, get to 4 inches and dont need uv or heat but need a huge tall 25gal tank! is there any toad thats good to handle and grows to a good size without needing a big cage?


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

No amphibs are particularly good to handle as they absorb harmful chemicals through their skin from our hands. True Toads(bufonids) being of much thicker skin would probably tollerate handling a bit better though. Theres loads of cool bufos out there- Black spined toads are good, Green toads, western toads, egyptian toads, morroccan toads etc. or if you want something big with a bit of personality(not in my own experience but ive seen it), theres cane toads.
True toads are great, though i havent had any myself for years. theyre good fun and quite personable and they almost look like little fat warty old men.
Do a lot more research though


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

thanks  bullfrogs and cane toads get huge lol so prob best to go with a true toad. how big do these get, and are they expensive? gonna look up a care sheet now.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

NO amphibians should be handled unless it is absolutly esential, as well as the damage your dry hands can do to ther skin and the effects the salts in your hands can have on them, it is very stressful for them. 

when amphibians are handled to clean, move or treat it is advisable to wear powder free latex gloves that have been sprayed with the same water you mist them with to make the gloves damp. if handling takes a little longer than expected the gloves should be kept damp and not allowed to dry out.

most frogs/toads will require a fair amount of space, and some heating will need to be provided for most tropical species. U.V light is also a good thing to have, as it has proven benefits. some frogs it is a must have with, and some will survive without as long as a natural source of light is provided. 

my advice would be to use it on all frogs/toads. i use it on all mine, and will be using it on all future projects. the best thing is to decide which secies it is you want and then you can make the best set up for the individual. also make sure the set up is up and running before adding any frogs/toads.


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

Very good advice knighty, though Ive never used u.v for amphibs(tell a lie, I had a spare tube once and had it over a horned frog, and his colours bightened up)with any ill effect.

Black rose, most of the true toad species are good, research a few of them and decide which is best for you. of the smaller ones, I am a fan of the black spined toads, bufo melanostictus. Couldnt tell you how much they would cost these days or how often they are available, sorry


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

i have looked up a few including the black spined, but all are either way too big or small. im looking for something that would just about fit in both my hands..not that i will be handling it except for cleaning out, checkups etc and ill use gloves. will most toads that size be ok in a two foot tank? are they sociable or do males fight? oh and do they bite and are they generally really noisy/loud?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

some species will bite, and most are ok alone. canabalism does occur in some species, so generaly with larger specimens unless alot of space can be provided i would keep them singularly.

males have vocal sacks and call, but it is not all the time, however they do have there nights! i am quiet a fan of the sounds they make, find it relaxing, especialy if it is raining heavy outside.


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

inkyjoe said:


> though Ive never used u.v for amphibs(tell a lie, I had a spare tube once and had it over a horned frog, and his colours bightened up)with any ill effect.quote]
> 
> no it is only a recent thing, and there is good evidence to say that it is better to have than not, but many keepers do do fine without it. however there are some species that it is esential for such as red eye tree frogs, dartfrogs and mantellas.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

im gonna have to keep searching for one the right size. i want one that looks fat, warty and ugly lol. am i likely to get a toad and setup in a swap for my axies and setup?


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

no to sure on the swap thing, depends if there is someone looking for axies that no longer wants toads i suppose. just be carful if you do swap, was a thread on here recently were 2 members done a trade and things went a bit sour to say the least.

for an average set up, with a 45x45x45 exo terra i would say you are looking at...

viv 70
heat mat 20
substrate, decour, plants, water dish 30+
light and unit 25

so around 140+ then the frog/toad on top at anything from 10 to 90 pounds depending on what you choose.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

oh dear, was that bad swap with amphibians? thats quite abit of money...my axies and setup cost over 130. toads probably dont do much do they? just kind sit there? originally wanted an anole and frogs but found out they need a huge setup like a cham, and i may aswell get a cham in that case. but ive always liked chunky toads.


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> oh dear, was that bad swap with amphibians? thats quite abit of money...my axies and setup cost over 130. toads probably dont do much do they? just kind sit there? originally wanted an anole and frogs but found out they need a huge setup like a cham, and i may aswell get a cham in that case. but ive always liked chunky toads.


If you like toads, get toads.
I dont think there are many herps that 'do much', they all have their moments though.
You could sell your axi set up and put it towards your toad fund, personally, Id rather have a toad any day!


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## linda60 (Jan 14, 2008)

You can get a 45x45x45 exoterra from Cupar garden centre for £48.99 they also do the exo terra rainforest heat mats postage free on all items,Aquapet discount aquatics do vivs similar to the exo terra but have sliding doors instead lots of sizes from about £38 also cheap heat mats.County engraving are also good for heat mats,both of the last 2 have Ebay shops,I have used them all with good service,You will also need a thermostat Live foods direct do them cheap with free postage,I know this does not answer your question,I have Whites,fire bellied toads,and running frogs which don't seem what you are looking for but maybe I have helped you save a few £s to spend on your frog/toad,good luck.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

thanks  one sp im considering is the great plains toad. not as big or ugly as i wanted lol but all the others seem too big. im hoping theyre not too expensive cos on an ad site someone is selling two with setup for £25! shame theyre too far away. i googled them, and found basic info and pics, but no actual care guides. anyone know anything of this sp?


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

ok i know what i want! finally! a pacman frog!


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

I've got two cane toads and I think they're marvelous. One is getting huge, Hermione, although I think Hermione might actually be a boy :blush: after seeing his/her vocal sack inflate and the fact that he/she seems to have nuptial pads on his/her thumbs...oh well. Ron is very skinny and doesn't eat much although I got them together and they have been in the same housing, eaten the same food, etc since I got them a year ago. These toads do have big personalities and are the grumpiest, wartiest things I've ever seen. In short, absolutely adorable! 

Everyone's right in that they don't 'do' much, but each night when I put in a dish of mealworms, Hermione stomps out of her hide and spends about 20 mins at the bowl, watching the worms and eating one after another. This is a truly fantastic spectacle - do a search on YouTube for cane toads eating, it's soooo funny. Better than telly! :notworthy:

So my advice is to get a cane toad - they're pretty hardy and don't need the constant tropical heating of many frogs, although they will on cooler summer days and in the winter if your room is kept cool. I use a heat mat under the tank in winter and sometimes an infrared bulb as a 'top up' on cool summer nights.

Good luck!!! :2thumb:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i wouldnt mibd a cane toad myself! how large is your enclosure?


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

knighty said:


> i wouldnt mibd a cane toad myself! how large is your enclosure?


I've got them in a viv with front-opening doors, it's about 24'' long and 18'' deep, about 30'' tall (I think - this is from memory). Unfortunately the toads don't use the height but I've given them a big water dish that they like to sit in to soak their butts :lol2: They really are sweet little creatures and completely harmless. Even when I've seen them stressed out when I've had to clean them, I've never seen them produce any bufotoxin. They're about as safe as you can get! :flrt:


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

Also, I have read that toads are sociable creatures so I have two, and I think they do get something out of being together - mine are always sitting together (sometimes Ron, being much smaller, actually sits right on top of Hermione like the big squishy, comfy lump he/she is) and I see them with their noses touching. So I would recommend getting two. Mine were £40 for the pair although my last Cane, Trevor, was a larger animal and he cost about £30 on his own. Big up cane toads!!:2thumb:


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

yeah i find them fascinating! its the fact that they do get pretty big though that has kinda kept me off them for a while. what is there growth rate like? how big of a viv do you think for an adult?


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

knighty said:


> yeah i find them fascinating! its the fact that they do get pretty big though that has kinda kept me off them for a while. what is there growth rate like? how big of a viv do you think for an adult?


I had mine in a 3x2x2 tank, unfortunately he was always nervous and never settled down, I never got to see that famous cane toad personality.
They'd obviously need something a lot bigger than ,say ,an afro bullfrog of a similar size as theyre a lot more active. Their adult size can vary a lot aswell, from 6" to nearly the size of a dustbin lid(APPARENTLY, heard it from a friend of a friend, wish I'd seen it with my own eyes)


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> ok i know what i want! finally! a pacman frog!


I dont rate horned frogs. "the poor mans african bullfrog":lol2:


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

lol, i would prefer a cane toad but noones gonna give me one of those in a swap with setup lol. plus theyre probably expensive


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## stopstealingmyname (May 31, 2008)

inkyjoe said:


> I dont rate horned frogs. "the poor mans african bullfrog":lol2:


Blasphemy!11! :devil:

colours , patterns and horns win it every time imo. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> lol, i would prefer a cane toad but noones gonna give me one of those in a swap with setup lol. plus theyre probably expensive


 cane toads are cheap as chips! I remember when I was at school, one of the lab technicians showed me a catalogue of lab supplies and in it was live cane toads, very cheap but you had to buy them per hundred!
When something that prolific lays 30,000 eggs, theyre more of a nuisance to get rid of than an exotic rarity:lol2:. look at australia!
If youve got room for a cane toad get one, if you really want a horned frog, get one of those instead.


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

stopstealingmyname said:


> Blasphemy!11! :devil:
> 
> colours , patterns and horns win it every time imo. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


Gaudy colours and fleshy nodules that barely resemble horns at all, and a pattern like someone walked dog:censor: across your carpet!

An enormous green behemoth, capable of spending up to 4 years dormant underground. Selfless parental guarding of young against anything that fancys a drink in that particular pond, crushing jaws with 3 prominent canines capable of inflicting injuries requiring stitches. aswell as the fact theyre very accomplished jumpers and swimmers compared to their, thallidomyde victim, south american cousins.

Afro Bullies win it everytime-Fact!


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

inkyjoe said:


> Their adult size can vary a lot aswell, from 6" to nearly the size of a dustbin lid(APPARENTLY, heard it from a friend of a friend, wish I'd seen it with my own eyes)


i see one on a documentry in australia where a little girl had one dressed in a bonnie hat sitting on a chair, and it was easily bigger than a football! not saying we should all start dressing our amphibs though!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

do u know if they are available readily by someone on the forum? canes i mean? i love them lol. theres no shops near me that do them


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## knighty (Feb 27, 2008)

i have herd of the becoming avaliable now and then, but most places will only do them to order. i may be able to get 1 or 2.... where are you? P.M if you like


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> do u know if they are available readily by someone on the forum? canes i mean? i love them lol. theres no shops near me that do them


I dont Im afraid, I know Swallow aquatics near me has them, but thats Colchester, 3-4 hr drive from you! But it goes to show they are about. Ask your local shop, they may be able to get one in for you, but they need a lot of space, unlike a horned frog.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

pmed. i have space for a 3foot, but only if the toad comes with it.


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> pmed. i have space for a 3foot, but only if the toad comes with it.


If you had something that turned out to be a massive female, youd need something a lot bigger than 3 ft, an adult male might be ok in something that size.
watch this- YouTube - King of bufos - bufo xxxl marinus and bufo paracnemis


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

inkyjoe said:


> Gaudy colours and fleshy nodules that barely resemble horns at all, and a pattern like someone walked dog:censor: across your carpet!
> 
> An enormous green behemoth, capable of spending up to 4 years dormant underground. Selfless parental guarding of young against anything that fancys a drink in that particular pond, crushing jaws with 3 prominent canines capable of inflicting injuries requiring stitches. aswell as the fact theyre very accomplished jumpers and swimmers compared to their, thallidomyde victim, south american cousins.
> 
> Afro Bullies win it everytime-Fact!


YouTube - African bull frog in survival situation - Rana toro africana
Fair play, he didnt fancy a crack at the elephant, but you wont catch a crappy pac man doing this!


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

looks like i cant get my frog now cos i cant get to cardiff and the guy cant get to me


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

BlackRose said:


> looks like i cant get my frog now cos i cant get to cardiff and the guy cant get to me


Newports just down the road from cardiff, cant the guy wait til you can arrange transport? What were you going for in the end?


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

i cant get any type of transport there at any time. the guys gonna try his best, but dont think hes able to. white lip tree frog.


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> i cant get any type of transport there at any time. the guys gonna try his best, but dont think hes able to. white lip tree frog.


If you're still interested in cane toads, I got my Trevor from a shop in Newport - yes, I went all the way from Manchester to Newport for this toad! I forget the name of the pet shop unfortunately but it was about a ten or fifteen minute walk from the train station, and the reptiles were in the back area. Maybe do a google for shops in the area and give them a ring. Good luck. 

On the topic of Inkyjoe's shy cane toad, that is my Ron. He's very nervous and doesn't seem to eat much. Hermione is also shy but because of his/her size (leading me to think he/she is a she), I think he/she feels a bit bolder. I love watching them, they are the most interesting creatures.


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

thanks. sounds like the shop is wildside. i go there alot. or maybe pisces pets (if the reps are out back).how much did u pay?


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## stopstealingmyname (May 31, 2008)

lol at the vid of the cane toad's :rotfl:


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

BlackRose said:


> thanks. sounds like the shop is wildside. i go there alot. or maybe pisces pets (if the reps are out back).how much did u pay?


Ah-ha! I found the old email. I got Trevor from Bt Parrots Quality Parrots, Reptiles and Fish For Sale. and was speaking with a man named Bryan. Trevor was £30 (I think, this was over a year ago) and he was a pretty big toad. That's him in my avatar picture :2thumb: but unfortunately he suffered a fall in my flat and died last summer. Cane toads are easy to keep but they are fragile. They don't have ribs, so any kind of fall can seriously damage their internal organs, as I found out. They also have surprisingly powerful legs and can easily leap out of your hands when you remove them for cleaning - which I also found out, poor Trev  so please be careful when handling them. Let us know how you get on!! x


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

thankyou so much. i want a cane toad one day but id want to give it as much space as possible, and if a 3foot might not cut it im better off goin with a big frog or two for now. poor trev...im so sorry. he looks so lovely!


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## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks BlackRose, he was a good toad. I'm hoping Hermione will get as big as he was...also...you'll love this...

Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - Monster toads 

This guy was selling them for £160. He recommended keeping them in a rabbit hutch or a chicken run. You'll understand why! :notworthy: I want one soooo bad...


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## BlackRose (Jul 8, 2007)

wow! i want one! aww all the knobbly toads i cant have!


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## LauraMartin (Apr 15, 2008)

arent fire belly toads pretty good for a beginner, with minimal requirements?


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## Pliskens_Chains (Jun 8, 2008)

Grumpymouth said:


> Thanks BlackRose, he was a good toad. I'm hoping Hermione will get as big as he was...also...you'll love this...
> 
> Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - Monster toads
> 
> This guy was selling them for £160. He recommended keeping them in a rabbit hutch or a chicken run. You'll understand why! :notworthy: I want one soooo bad...


i would so love one of those guys, they are amazing. they are very expensive at £160 though, havent seen any available anyhow :lol2:


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## inkyjoe (Mar 31, 2008)

Grumpymouth said:


> Thanks BlackRose, he was a good toad. I'm hoping Hermione will get as big as he was...also...you'll love this...
> 
> Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred :: View topic - Monster toads
> 
> This guy was selling them for £160. He recommended keeping them in a rabbit hutch or a chicken run. You'll understand why! :notworthy: I want one soooo bad...



That is a BEAST! Id definately find room for something like that-even if i had to get rid of my bed a sleep in a hammock! Dont think her indoors would be too happy about that though:lol2:


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