# First Time Leo Owner



## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi guys,

Just to introduce myself, I'm James, and I live in Leamington Spa in the Midlands.

So I'm new to this but have been doing my research for quite sometime now, I was going to get a leo about a year ago but was in the middle of moving and it kinda fell through as I had so much on etc. Now I think I'm ready to home my first reptile (Leo).

Now I've been looking at different vivs and I think I want to go for a 3X2X2 or slightly smaller to house a single leo (they dont get lonely do they?), if you think this would sufice? And if I can, it would be great to find a viv pretty much ready to go.

So I'm thinking of budget here, could I get a viv of this size, its habitat, and a Leo for around about £100? Can stretch further if needed, and might just go all out after seeing some Tremper Bandits, their colours are so vivid, gorgeous little critters!

Any help would be much appreciated

Oh and if anyone knows of good reptile shops in Warwickshire/West Midlands that would help a bunch too

Thanks

J


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Hiya James - welcome. A few answers to some of your questions. Viv size: for one adult Leo a 2 foot viv would be perfectly adequate so you could save a bit of cash there. No Leos don't get lonely and often do much better on their own. Tbh I think you would be hard pushed to get the lot for £100 but so that you know the essentials and *approx.* prices:
Vivarium - £60 or you could at a push use a plastic faunarium £20
Heat mat - £15
Mat thermostat (don't try to do without this no matter what any shop tells you) £20
Thermometer - digital £6
Calcium - £3
Nutrobal - £5
Leo - £20 upwards
Livefood
Hides, water, food and calcium bowls can be improvised (Margarine tubs, jam jar lids - you get the idea) Paper towel or newspaper for substrate.
This is the most basic but adequate set up I can come up with. You may well be better looking in the Classifieds for a second hand set up. If you do just make sure you *disinfect everything thoroughly.*
Sorry don't know any of the rep shops in your area.
Good luck and enjoy your new little Leo.


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi jools,

Thanks a bunch for getting back to me so soon, your help is much appreciated! I think I'm gonna go for a second hand set up, and maybe spend a little more on a Tremper bandit but unsure yet.

Would you know of any reputable (excuse the pun) dealers of Leo's/Bandits at all?

Thanks again,

J


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## queenquack (Apr 6, 2009)

*welcome*

welcome to the leo world!

getting started is a mine feild!!

i dont think leos get lonely. mine is by himself and seems happy!
i have him in an exo terra 45x45x60 cm and it is great! i would say for leos its not hight that is important but floor space. my gecko rarely climbs i have things he does climb up, like a big peice of bark! but he preffers to stay on the ground.

avoid pet shops if possible!! check any advise they give you with people on here before using it! no calsi sand pleasy!

finally, any specific Qs u have just ask on here! they are great.
i bought my leo on here and he is gorgous!!!

best of luck xxxx


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## Crown Prince Of Crime (Jul 28, 2009)

Hi James, Ive recently bought a new leo and all is going well. A single leo will thrive when kept by on its own, a standard 40cm by 30cm should be fine for one leo. When I got my leo I got a starter deal for £100 for everything included (viv, hide, food, heat mat ect). Talk to your local Reptile shop, they should be able to do something like that for you


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## Crown Prince Of Crime (Jul 28, 2009)

Hi queenquack, why should pet shops be avoided, my leo is perfectly healthy


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Many pet shops (NOT all) will give advice which can be dodgy to say the least. They will often advise start up kits which can be over priced and often contain things that you don't need (such as lamps), things that you really should avoid (such as calci-sand) and don't contain things that are essential (such as thermostats). The staff will do their best but are not usually specialists and not really able to advise on things like supplements. Some livestock from pet shops has been kept in sub-optimal conditions, often for long periods, and will therefore not be as healthy as they could be. *It all depends on the shop* but some are shockers!


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## Crown Prince Of Crime (Jul 28, 2009)

I see what you meen jools, when I bought my leo they had three female leos in a tank that should really only be big enough for 1 and did'nt have a single hide!


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks Crown Prince Of Crime and queenquack, much needed advice. I did think they would need a longer rather than taller viv. I've got my eye on a bit of a package which includes:

Viv - 610mmX380mmX300mm
One large hide
Water bowl
Heat-mat with habistat thermostat
Wall thermometer
Heat light with cover
Glass door-lock
Piece of driftwood

It was used to house a corn snake originally and looks to be fine (pending a good clean)
Is there anything else I might need to add to this? food, calcium, and nutrobal?

Thanks in advance :notworthy:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

JamesEK4 said:


> Thanks Crown Prince Of Crime and queenquack, much needed advice. I did think they would need a longer rather than taller viv. I've got my eye on a bit of a package which includes:
> 
> Viv - 610mmX380mmX300mm
> One large hide
> ...



heya!!

you will need to dust food with nutrobal some days and calcium others- most people use calcium 5 days and nutrobal two- but you will also need calcium available at all times- just pop some in a plastic milk bottle lid.

you will also need more than one hide (at least one in the warm end and one in the cool end)

also a moist hide to aid in shedding- just cut a doorway in a cricket tub (make sure edges are not sharp) and fill with damp spaghnum moss or kitchen towel. spray daily to keep moist. adult females also favour these over laying boxes for their eggs in my experience.

if you are using a heatlamp rather than a heatmat (i use lamps but some favour mats) use a coloured bulb. you will not need both though.

also, what substrate are you planning on using?

i have found lino to be the best flooring to use- no chance of impaction, nowhere for crickets to hide, the easiest thing in the world to keep clean, and also the added bonus that when females are gravid they use the laying box or moist hide rather than digging up the entire enclosure, which makes checking for eggs so much easier lol!!!

oh, and you might also want a mealworm bowl if you plan on feeding them, they get everywhere otherwise!!

good luck finding your first leo- as mentioned above i would buy from a breeder on here rather than a shop- its easier to find people who keep detailed records and you can see the setup/conditions/parents etc. shops often have no idea where the leos are from, age, parents, any health probs... 

chelle


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

Hey Fraggle,

Thats some great advice there, thanks a bunch! :notworthy:

Ok so I would need another hide for one end of the tank, do you always have to have a moist hide? can they shed their skin whenever? and also which end of the tank is best for the moist hide warm or cool?

In regards to what substrate to use, I was going to go for playsand or lino, but after reading what you mentioned about the sand and how much cleaner it would be to use lino I think I may go for the latter!

About the heatmat/heatlamp I think in the deal I'm getting both so will probably just use the mat?

I'm definately going to purchase my little critter from a dealer on here, I love the look of these Trempers!

Again thanks for the advice :2thumb:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Imo you should always have a moist hide in the viv. Although you will often be able to tell when a Leo is about to shed, I have found that they are not inclined to use a moist hide that has only just been put into the viv - they like things to be familiar to them. I keep my moist hides half on and half off the heat mat area - too cold and they won't use it - too hot and it drys out too quickly and makes the viv humid. 
Some ppl like to use a lamp as well as a heatmat but it is not really considered necessary.
Substrate - I always use tiles (or Lino is just as good), some ppl use sand with no problems but I find that it is more difficult to keep clean, needs completely changing after a while, makes a horrible grating sound in the viv glass runners and does carry at least some risk of impaction especially for young Leos.
I have a couple of Tremper albinos (Gertie and Rosie) and they are beautiful.


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

jools said:


> I have a couple of Tremper albinos (Gertie and Rosie) and they are beautiful.


Thanks jools, I'm taking in so much info at the moment, the last thing I want to do is to be unprepared, I want my first rep to be very happy!

Do you have any pics of your Trempers?


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

JamesEK4 said:


> Thanks jools, I'm taking in so much info at the moment, the last thing I want to do is to be unprepared, I want my first rep to be very happy!
> 
> Do you have any pics of your Trempers?


I do but I'm pants at posting pics - I am a grandmother after all :lol2:


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

jools said:


> I do but I'm pants at posting pics - I am a grandmother after all :lol2:


lmao that is no excuse :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

SleepyD said:


> lmao that is no excuse :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


:Na_Na_Na_Na: to you too Sleepy - I need all the excuses I can get :2thumb:


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

JamesEK4 said:


> Hey Fraggle,
> 
> Thats some great advice there, thanks a bunch! :notworthy:
> 
> ...


heya! 

as above, if you are using a heatmat stick the moist hide somewhere in the middle. it should be in there all the time, as already mentioned, mine sometimes use it as a hide even if they are not due a shed. 

sleepyD has some great info and caresheets on her site- highly recommend it! shes helped me out with some nutritional info in the past when deciding which livefoods to favour as a staple diet  

great move finding out all of your info before purchasing your leo- dont hesitate to ask a million questions on here- there are a lot of very good leo breeders and experienced owners who will be more than happy to help you make the perfect setup!


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

jools said:


> :Na_Na_Na_Na: to you too Sleepy - I need all the excuses I can get :2thumb:


Come on girls lets not bicker 

Thanks Frags, yeah I have been on Sleepy's site, taking in a LOT of info! Overwhelmed but excited at the same time, lets call it apprehensive! :2thumb:


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

JamesEK4 said:


> Come on girls lets not bicker
> 
> Thanks Frags, yeah I have been on Sleepy's site, taking in a LOT of info! Overwhelmed but excited at the same time, lets call it apprehensive! :2thumb:


No James we are not bickering - just having a bit of a tease. Sleepy's website is fab - easy to follow and full of sense - she really does know her Leos. I would follow what she says absolutely. You're really going to enjoy being a Leo keeper - but you know you won't be able to help buying more don't you :lol2:


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## JamesEK4 (Aug 31, 2009)

Ha! yeah I know I'm going to get the bug! Well I was thinking of going for two straight away but decided on the one, with the second coming along after about a month or two of having the first, and will make sure to get one around the same size as the other (done my homework  )


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## Fraggle (Feb 24, 2008)

JamesEK4 said:


> Ha! yeah I know I'm going to get the bug! Well I was thinking of going for two straight away but decided on the one, with the second coming along after about a month or two of having the first, and will make sure to get one around the same size as the other (done my homework  )



don't forget to quarantine :whistling2:

i started off with one. now i have 24 and 2 due to hatch... oopsy!


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

tell me about it!

i now have 18 adults and lots of cute babies!

( only two babies are trempers tho )


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