# Why do people buy rabbits "for the kids"?



## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

I went to collect an item this morning and noticed 2 fully grown rabbits being kept oin a tiny guinea pug hutch. Personally I wouldn't have put a guinea pig in it. I commented on it being too small (cos I'm an interefering old bat who cannot keep her opinions to herself) and was told that they were the kids pets and they had a large run. I asked why they were crammed in a tiny hutch if they had a run. Quite literally they had a choice of toiletting in their food pots or the bed area as that's the only space that the rabbits bodies were not physically in. She said that the kids put them out in the run every morning before school but put them back in the hutch before they left. Hmm, so in the rush of getting kids up, dressed, finding school stuff, getting breakfast, the rabbits got to be put out for a couple of hours ?
Wait a couple of months until it is too cold and dark for the kids to want to bother with them and they won't get put out in the run at all (if they do now) but will spend 24/7, 2 large rabbits in a 3 foot long hutch. What should I do?
I did tell her it wasn't big enough, I did tell her that they needed a much larger space but she just looked uninterested, said they belonged to the kids and that was it.


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## Moosmoo (Jul 21, 2008)

people buy these for the kids not realising how big and boisterous rabbits can be, i work in a petshop and i always advice against buying rabbits for small kids... i always say that they should get fish if they want a pet that is JUST for the child... 

if the animal is more the parents as well as the kids then thats a different matter


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

This is so annoying as at the end of the day the parents should be responsible for the welfare of the pets. When you think of the size of a warren it is wicked to keep rabbits confined to a hutch. When we rehome rabbits at our Sanctuary the rabbits have to have permanant access to a run and a very large hutch or the people fail the home visit


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## stinglestick (Aug 28, 2008)

My rabbit Fenris point blank refuses to live in his massive hutch and resides in my shed of an evening time~proof indeed that they enjoy a large space to roam around in..Children cant be responsible for keeping rabbits etc without adult supervision ~in this case the 'responsible' adult seems to be quite the opposite..At least you tried aye?


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

Moosmoo said:


> people buy these for the kids not realising how big and boisterous rabbits can be, i work in a petshop and i always advice against buying rabbits for small kids... i always say that they should get fish if they want a pet that is JUST for the child...
> 
> if the animal is more the parents as well as the kids then thats a different matter


Lol how gutted would the kid be if he asked for rabbits and his mam came back with a fish! Get a couple of rats for kids. They're a great laugh.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Rats are by far the best small critter for kids. No question!


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

my sis got a bunny for her kids and she has ended up doing all the looking after.....she did know this would happen tho. kids lose interest very quickly and pets are too much responsibility for them.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> (cos I'm an interefering old bat who cannot keep her opinions to herself) quote]
> 
> 
> :lol2:Not ALWAYS a bad thing...
> ...


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

Was just going to say something along those lines. I'd get the RSPCA involved, it's not fair on the rabbits and people shouldn't be allowed to get away with inadequate conditions just because "they're the kids".

It's not like you need to spend a fortune on housing, you don't even need a hutch! We use a large plastic dog kennel for our rabbits which is inside a secure 6ft run.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Rats are by far the best small critter for kids. No question!


 
I agree. 

Rabbits nip (out of affection! not necessarily aggression), their back claws can easily create a nasty set of cuts, they do not like to be picked up and they are fragile to handle.

Great kids pet eh?

Rats are easy to handle, great fun to train, enjoy being handled, can tolerate the 'treats' kids like to give much better than rabbits, are easier to clean out and can be stuffed in a pocket/ down a jumper/ up a sleeve and carried around.

They weren't around much when I was a kid but I always had them and couldnt figure out why everyone had hamsters.

There are plenty of adults out there who want to keep rabbits as pets! Much better match:2thumb:


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm not so sure about rats for kids. I very nearly took my stepson to A&E a few weeks back after he was bitten by one of the rats owned by my better half. I've never seen so much blood come out of a finger.

Ok, it was his falt for not washing his hands after eating but if we're talking about kids, they always seem to have food on their hands or face somewhere.


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## bendigo (Jan 28, 2008)

people buy kids rabbits as they think they are a nice, fluffy, not to hard to look after animal that the kids can play with and learn responsibility and caring etc....blah blah blah
many scientifc research thingys have suggested its a good thing for kids to have pets, and actually being exposed to there poo has many good effects and lowers the risk of a diesease i dont rememebr the name of that can cause a pregnant woman to miscarry if she hasnt had it before.

on the other hand it is the parents job to make sure that the animal has things it needs, stuff like hutches. even if a child does know what size it needs the child cant go get it one, it has to rely on its parents to get it, and thats why parents need to know as much about the animal as they can.
when i was young andf wanted a pet i had to go to the library, and get books on that animal, and then read them over and over, and i remember enjoying bossing my mum around saying stuff like,
"no dont get hay, the book says hay can cause itchyness, get this"

i knew secretly she was reading thew books as well though


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Personally I don't believe any animal is an ideal kids pets they all have downsides, and all should be supervised when with the children. I happen to own a rat who is people aggressive. She came from a disgraceful home with Puck, the cage was tiny, an absolute mess, no food water etc and all the parents said was that it was their sons responsibility. So a similar thing to the people in the OP's post apparently.

Rats can nip in affection, or to test surroundings, or in Rolo's case just for the hell of it. She'll crawl all over u on freerange time, find the one bit of uncovered skin and bite down hard. She never bites gently and always draws blood. Some would say get rid, feed her to the snake or have her put to sleep. But she is in no pain at all, no discomfort, she simply doesn't like humans. Coming where she came from I don't blame her one bit. She also has part of her tail missing and they couldn't tell me how that happened either! Some people shouldn't be allowed pets!


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Pretty soon this may not be a concern.

The RSPCA have been pushing for the stopping of rabbits to be kept as a pet by anyone, stipulating it is one of _*the*_ most abused pets in the UK at this present time.

And to be honest in many respects l can see this as being partially true.

Rabbits and Guinea pigs are the forerunner of popular pets bought for children in the UK today, and have been for the last twenty odd years. The 'great' summer pet, commencing sales in April with Easter and ending in mid to end September.

Way too many rabbits out there, way too many produced and way too manybrought in from Europe because of their inexpensive pricing.

So, as said, pretty soon, should the RSPCA win their way, there will not be any rabbits as pets anyway.

R


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Pretty soon this may not be a concern.
> 
> The RSPCA have been pushing for the stopping of rabbits to be kept as a pet by anyone, stipulating it is one of _*the*_ most abused pets in the UK at this present time.
> 
> ...


They don't want anyone to have a pet of any kind though. I can't see them winning, there would be too much opposition.


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Perhaps not an immediate win, however, more authorities are backing the RSPCA's right to say whether certain pets should be kept as pets.

Lets be honest, its been discussed in this thread already, is the Rabbt an ideal child's pet?

No of course not, but what age are we suggesting that a child is responsible for the pet, when is the right age in all seriousness?

What is the ideal pet for a child, when ultimately it is/will be the parent caring for it, paying for it and as Pouchie has thrown in, the new AWA in legal terms displays the parent/s as being responsible for the pets and not the children - for it is the parents whom will face prosecution.

But hey, who knows about the AWA in all its entirety, those who have studied it sure.

Fenwomans' parent with the rabbit was none the wiser of her actions, and even if Fenny had thrown in the legal aspect, would the parent have been any the wiser??

No!

The fact remains the same, education and learning curve, you/we can not expect people to know right or wrong if what they are doing in the first place is not deemed as wrong anyway in their eyes eh?

And to cap it Simon, l think that if push were to come to shove, a lot of people/voters might push for the sale of Rabbits to be dropped from pet stores, then breeders and then well who next....oh yes, we should not forget the sanctuary's - for they have thousands of unwanted/unloved rabbits in house.

No, the rabbit will be a prohibited pet sometime in the future, that is a fact. May not be now, but it will happen.

R


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## _simon_ (Nov 27, 2007)

I'd have thought a better solution would be to restrict the sale of pets based on age and when buying any animal to have the owners details kept on a database. I you have any links to do with this I'd be interested in reading about it. We've got 2 kids aged 6 and 9 and they've bothed asked for pets but there's no way on earth I'd let them. They're just kids, they can't be expected to care for another life.


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## Moosmoo (Jul 21, 2008)

im just glad that my children when i have some are going to be surrounded by animals which are mine and the OH's responsibility, i believe growing up with animals from a young age you already have so much respect and knowledge that overall you are more likely to be more responsible when it comes to pet ownership


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

_simon_ said:


> I'd have thought a better solution would be to restrict the sale of pets based on age and when buying any animal to have the owners details kept on a database. quote]
> 
> 
> There are lots of better solutions but unfortunately, they do not lead to the outcome the RSPCA appear to be working toward.
> ...


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

Rabbit's are the third most popular pet and the most neglected? We boycot from buying any rabbit's from pet shops as such trde should not be encourged sonsidering how many rabbits are in need of rehoming. Even he type of hutches they sell are shocking and as mentioned before illegal.

These are pics of the houses we keep some of of our buns in.


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## spend_day (Apr 10, 2008)

Fish and mice are my "for the kids" pets i had both when i was a kid and they taught me alot about responsibility and the mice were lovely (even the evil one who would bite any1)

but wheneva a parent gets a pet for the kid they must know they need to put in the hours as well kids are.......... well kids there not always gonna do everything so sometimes the parent has too also parents hold the purse strings.

i think its shocking what that woman is doing to those animals and shes setting a bad example for the kids and should seriously know better


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

In my opinion, mice aren't really meant for kids, either... They are much more fragile than a big male rat.


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## GlitterBug (Mar 31, 2008)

I had a rabbit in a four foot hutch but he lived in the garage so he had all of it to run around in plus a tray of grown grass and plenty of toys, I was 7 then, I've had rats, hampsters, fish *allthough I never had any luck with fish* mice, piggies and dogs.


I have two rabbits now in a double five foot hutch and every day when i get in they are on their leads and walked around the garden till they are tired and hop over to the hutch, on days off i bring them in for the whole house to run around in.

I would never let my children have pets unless they looked after them, when i got another rabbit at 10 i wasnt that bothered as i was with the first one so mom gave it to some woman who had a huge garden


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Stucoady, bloody fantastic.

I applaud you :no1:


You even have a dig box which is what its all about. Rabbits dig naturally and this forfills the AWA 'enabling the animals to behave naturally' etc etc.

I breed and I still manage to have decent setups for my huge herd of 14.

Hutches have their place if the rabbit is out most of the time or moved to a run. They are sufficient for sleeping in.


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> Stucoady, bloody fantastic.
> 
> I applaud you :no1:
> 
> ...


Why thank you:2thumb: We no longer use the tray as they have the garden to dig up if they wish as I have given up trying to stop them :lol2:heir knwledge then check out rabbits united forum.

For those who would like to chat about rabbit's and increase t


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

spend_day said:


> Fish and mice are my "for the kids" pets i had both when i was a kid and they taught me alot about responsibility and the mice were lovely (even the evil one who would bite any1)
> 
> but wheneva a parent gets a pet for the kid they must know they need to put in the hours as well kids are.......... well kids there not always gonna do everything so sometimes the parent has too also parents hold the purse strings.
> 
> i think its shocking what that woman is doing to those animals and shes setting a bad example for the kids and should seriously know better


The sad thing is 'potential for abuse also'

The RSPCA have in recent years had claims made against them for being 'heavy handed' but also for potentially seeing a connection between animal abuse and child abuse.

If a child neglects its pet, is this because it is neglected as a child?

If the child is neglected, does this mean that the child is the victim of abuse by neglecting pet and children owners?



File On 4
Tuesday 23 September 
8.00-8.40pm BBC RADIO 4 

BBC - Press Office - Network Radio Programme Information Week 39 Tuesday 23 September 2008

The Royal Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To Animals (RSPCA) is one of the best known charities in England and Wales and attracts donations of more than £100m a year. 

But concerns have been raised about the way in which the organisation carries out private prosecutions against owners accused of cruelty or failing to care for their animals. Defence lawyers and campaign groups accuse the RSPCA of being heavy handed and too ready put vulnerable people before the courts... claims which the charity has always denied. 

Now there are new concerns over the role of the RSPCA in promoting an apparent link between animal abuse and child abuse – a connection which featured in a recent court case about alleged animal cruelty. 

File On 4 examines the evidence behind the link and hears why some experts fear it could lead to people being wrongly accused of child abuse. 

The programme can be heard again at 5pm Sunday 28 September. 

Reporter/Allan Urry, Producer/Paul Grant 

*BBC News Publicity* 



Dangerous grounds, but already cases have been brought to court and animals have been released to the RSPCA based on parents supposedly neglecting their charges [children], because they care for their animals.

The RSPCA also has an extremely heavy connection with the NSPCC.

So think about where this could lead to just in the rabbits alone.

R


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

my younger sister wanted a rabbit, so we 'borrowed' a rabbit from a friend for a couple of weeks so she could see what it was like to look after one. the amount of time, handling, feeding etc they needed. 

after that she said, ill just help you with the rats  so it was really good i think, i think that before an adult is aloud to buy an animal for a child they should have to take one on for a couple of weeks first. 

my sisters have a couple of hamsters (one sister is 15 and one is 6) and the older sister and my mum does everything. i have my own rats and i look after them. my parents where saying about getting my youngest sister something (pet wise) and i said about how its the parents who have to look after it..blahblah... so they didnt in the end. (they have far too many animals of thier own lol)

i dont agree with buying children an animal as how many children will really want to go clean out the cage etc. i dont know many. 

x


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> The RSPCA have in recent years had claims made against them for being 'heavy handed' but also for potentially seeing a connection between animal abuse and child abuse.
> 
> If a child neglects its pet, is this because it is neglected as a child?
> 
> ...


 
I have to say Rory, this connection the RSPCA are trying to make smacks of desperation and clutching at straws to me.

Were they just bored when they thought of attaching themselves to the NSPCC?

No wonder they are in the news a lot lately with bad publicity about their crazy court cases.


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> The sad thing is 'potential for abuse also'
> 
> The RSPCA have in recent years had claims made against them for being 'heavy handed' but also for potentially seeing a connection between animal abuse and child abuse.
> 
> ...


 
As a social worker, I have read the research when we were handed the paper at work.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

stucoady said:


> As a social worker, I have read the research when we were handed the paper at work.


and??


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## taylor (Aug 20, 2008)

my dad made me hand build a hutch before i could get a rabbit... whith his help ofcourse i was like 14 so quite old to want a rabbit but well lol 

good job we build a massive hutch because he is one hell of a rabbit, and still going strong


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## fern (May 25, 2008)

oh and what also annoys me is all the adverts where people are getting rid of an animal "because the kids got bored" :devil::devil: that makes me SOOOOOOOO angry!! they took on the pet they should know that they would end up looking after it instead of most children. have they not seen how fast toys come and go? an animal would be the same!!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

My local pet shop actually has a sign outside saying "free rabbit with every hutch". They have been reported for that repeatedly AND they've had visits from the RSPCA regarding it... Still it happens every few months or so.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

stucoady said:


> As a social worker, I have read the research when we were handed the paper at work.


 
by and?? I mean what did you think of it?


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Heres a great bit of publicity for the rabbit keeper just popped up in the news:

'Ear, Ear Officer, My Bunny's Wrong' - Yahoo! News UK


great eh?


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

The association between thesetwo charities, is by no means new,and for that matter neither is the stories of the related abuses;

The Links Group

NSPCC And The RSPCA <AnimalsAreOurFriends>

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/publications/Downloads/understandingthelinks_wdf48177.pdf

NSPCC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010211/ai_n14370538

http://www.animallaw.info/historical/articles/arukrspcahist.htm

[It has been rumoured that they have been known to finance each other]

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/WhatWeDo/AboutTheNSPCC/KeyFactsAndFigures/KeyFacts_wda33645.html

The association is as said long standing ........... and continues to grow in strength.

So you may report parents for neglecting their pets, because they belong to the children, but when you report the parents for potential animal abuse, what else may be investigated????

R


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> Rats are by far the best small critter for kids. No question!


 Only as long as they are responsible enough to care for them under adult supervision and provide a large enough cage. Judging by the adult reaction when I commented on the tiny hutch with no run she is the sort of parent who would buy a couple of rats and put them in a hamster cage.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> The association between thesetwo charities, is by no means new,and for that matter neither is the stories of the related abuses;
> 
> The Links Group
> 
> ...


Interesting links.

Great shock tactics for the RSPCA there. Throw in a bit of child abuse. But don't the general public realise that the scum of the earth who abuse children also abuse animals? Isn't it known fact anyway?
It is common knowledge that murderers start off 'experimenting' with animals.

Was a bit of a no brainer for the RSPCA to associate themselves with I suppose.

As for the actual implications. I would hope that the NSPCC do not have the same agenda as the RSPCA. We wouldnt get far if they wanted a ban on having children would we?

Can the RSPCA use child investigations as a threat? Not unless you neglect your child. If I had a rabbit in a hutch, maybe I could be prosecuted for animal cruelty. If that made me open to having my son investigated, go ahead. Investigate him. 

Publicity? Yes. Getting the RSPCA closer to a ban? Can't see it myself.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

_simon_ said:


> I'm not so sure about rats for kids. I very nearly took my stepson to A&E a few weeks back after he was bitten by one of the rats owned by my better half. I've never seen so much blood come out of a finger.
> 
> Ok, it was his falt for not washing his hands after eating but if we're talking about kids, they always seem to have food on their hands or face somewhere.


 Mine was bitten badly by his pet hamster, the top and bottom teeth actually met right through the nail. Yes there was a lot of blood but a dab of disinfectant and a satisifyingly large plaster sorted it out. In the olden days, kids were much tougher, so we didn't have to take them to hospital for a little pet bite like you do nowadays.
How many stitches and how many broken bones were there with your son when he went to the hospital emergency ward?:whistling2::lol2:


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> by and?? I mean what did you think of it?


 
It was not new news for us as such a connection was made many years ago. I always find it funny that parents in a crises always buy a pet when in fact they can't care for their own kids?


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## ChrisNE (Jul 13, 2008)

Kids should be bitten by animals, fall outta trees etc. When the spartans were about they threw their kids to the wolves and if they couldnt fight their way out then tuff luck. Now its like omg a house fly just landed on my child! lol And all kids should have animals in their lives imo, obviously the parents have the most responsibility, i wouldn't get a rotweiler for my 3 year old and leave him to it!


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)




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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

stucoady said:


> It was not new news for us as such a connection was made many years ago. I always find it funny that parents in a crises always buy a pet when in fact they can't care for their own kids?


Maybe they think they can prove to themselves they are capable of caring for something successfully.

If a woman screws up raising 6 kids, I'll bet she thought during the sixth pregnancy she would get it right 'this' time.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

stucoady said:


>


oh he looks so darn miserable :lol2:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> Interesting links.
> 
> Great shock tactics for the RSPCA there. Throw in a bit of child abuse. But don't the general public realise that the scum of the earth who abuse children also abuse animals? Isn't it known fact anyway?
> It is common knowledge that murderers start off 'experimenting' with animals.
> ...


 
Aaah but Pouchie, you are looking at abuse in the extreme form - cruelty, perhaps abuse in this case is as good as neglect, lack of reponsibility only etc.

The cases of the last two years have not been about that kind of animal abuse.

Here is a sample, lets say:

A woman, married, respectable, husband works, mother does not. Child aged, say 10 attends school 9-4pm 5 days per week.

Animals owned dogs, and horses.

Okay can you see the abuse yet?

Whilst the child is at school, under authority supervision, and the husband is at work, the mother, does the housework, [because lets not bring in the other potential here - which is husbandry - both human and animal being researched for connections of poor ownership of animals], walks the dogs, and then goes to tend to her horses.

Okay can you see the abuse yet?

So when the child is picked up from school, and the dinner is cooked and the husband comes home from working, and the family unit are together .................

Can you see the abuse yet? To either animal or child?

If you can, then perhaps you best work for either the NSPCC or the RSPCA, because somewhere there is a case of animal abuse and child neglect.

So much so that when the threats were made that child abuse was being committed the lady handed over her dogs and horses to the RSPCA!

Why??

Because perhaps it was suggested that her child would be taken from her!?

No where there do l see the reason for the handing over nor do l see why there was any need for the NSPCC to be suggested at being brought in.

Or shall we delve deeper and look at pregnant women, who potentially could have their unborn children taken away from them because they might be, might be, might be guilty of apparent animal neglect, because they are pregnant.

It sickens me to the core, that people donate to the NSPCC when the true agendas are not truly seen at times.

I do not support purposeful animal cruelty in its true sense, nor do l support the same done to children, but l fail at times to see these connections.

RSPCA to be banned, for what?

For in the eyes of the many for doing what they believe to be a great job, and the same can be said for the NSPCC.

R


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Just had a call to The Sanctuary, a woman wants rid of her Dwarf Lop Rabbit as its just bitten her 2 year olds nephews finger off at the 2nd joint. He was in theatre having it stitched back on. She said it was usually a very friendly rabbit and they fed it by putting food over the wire run, Wonder if this rabbit thought it was food or was it just fed up of kids poking their fingers through


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Thats where the rights of the RSPCA must be publicised.

If the poor lady had known they had no right to take her dogs or horses where would the case have gone to?

Who has failed this lady by not educating her as to the power the RSPCA do (or not as the case may be) have?

And I can assure you, if threatened with taking my son, I would still not be giving up perfectly well cared for animals because I would be safe in the sure knowledge they would have no grounds to take my son.

Sad to hear there are people who would let a charity convince them of something that their common sense must tell them to be wrong.

The courts are p*ssed off with these ridiculous cases. I still don't see the RSPCA succeeding anywhere. 

Thats not to say I don't watch them like a hawk. As we all should do.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Just had a call to The Sanctuary, a woman wants rid of her Dwarf Lop Rabbit as its just bitten her 2 year olds nephews finger off at the 2nd joint. He was in theatre having it stitched back on. She said it was usually a very friendly rabbit and they fed it by putting food over the wire run, Wonder if this rabbit thought it was food or was it just fed up of kids poking their fingers through


I would bet my life on it being an accident. Bet a 2yr old finger looks a 'bit' like a carrot. Never met a rabbit that aggressive it would rip a kids finger off.

Poor kid. Poor rabbit.


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Aaah but Pouchie, you are looking at abuse in the extreme form - cruelty, perhaps abuse in this case is as good as neglect, lack of reponsibility only etc.
> 
> The cases of the last two years have not been about that kind of animal abuse.
> 
> ...


I have yet to hear about an unborm child being removed (once born) because of the mother possible might be guilty of animal neglect? With child abuse cases, it is the LA who investigates 99% of all cases, not the NSPCC.


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> oh he looks so darn miserable :lol2:


 French Lops always look so darn miserabl lol. However, here is a pic of Lionel when he was a baby


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

stucoady said:


> French Lops always look so darn miserabl lol. However, here is a pic of Lionel when he was a baby


I was being sarcastic :lol2::bash:

He looks the picture of contentment. Beautiful rabbit :2thumb:


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

I knew you where :bash:


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

what do you think of my rabbit enclosure!


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Aaah but Pouchie, you are looking at abuse in the extreme form - cruelty, perhaps abuse in this case is as good as neglect, lack of reponsibility only etc.
> 
> The cases of the last two years have not been about that kind of animal abuse.
> 
> ...


I'm shocked to read this!!! A woman handed over her pets because she was threatened with being investigated for child abuse?? Isn't that blackmail???

That is really low tactics.....I have no idea why the RSPCA have not been publicly exposed with the amount that I hear, truly disgusting but then I guess hush can always be bought!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

peaches said:


> That is really low tactics.....I have no idea why the RSPCA have not been publicly exposed with the amount that I hear, truly disgusting but then I guess hush can always be bought!


 Errr they have.
RSPCA Animadversion


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## stucoady (May 23, 2008)

Nice set up ou have Leo19. How do you prevent them from digging their way out? Mine are abugger for escaping:lol2:


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## leo19 (Mar 16, 2008)

stucoady said:


> Nice set up ou have Leo19. How do you prevent them from digging their way out? Mine are abugger for escaping:lol2:


 well they dig but they seem to dig in the right direction :lol2: they just dig in the middle of the run an never round the outside


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## peaches (Apr 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Errr they have.
> RSPCA Animadversion


That's a really interesting site, one I have read before, I guess what I mean is exposure that is not just internet based, I heard there was a telly program that touched this issue, however I mean something that would reach more of the general public.....I guess that would have to be a soap story line then :lol2:

It's is a 'charity' that people do trust blindly, that's part of the problem I guess.

back to bunnies lol, cute? cuddly? I want, I want...ok sweetie...child bought off???

My daughter loves rabbits, but I have never bought her one, she can moan all she likes.......


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

You know the problem is that we need to standardise standards (?) for animal welfare in general. We all accept that it is ok to keep a horse (nomadic herd animal) isolated in a stable big enough for it to turn round in and not much else. Loads of horses are lucky if they get a couple of hours in a pasture every day. 
The big picture is full of double standards and some animals seem to be allowed to suffer without comment - like horses.
I wonder what the equine fraternity would think if the RSPCA suggested that they have to have stables built with the same proportions allowed for rabbits - and with constant access to a field.
Please don't get me wrong, I agree that rabbit welfare needs to be improved - but so does the welfare of other animals, otherwise no-one will take it seriously.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Evie said:


> You know the problem is that we need to standardise standards (?) for animal welfare in general. We all accept that it is ok to keep a horse (nomadic herd animal) isolated in a stable big enough for it to turn round in and not much else. Loads of horses are lucky if they get a couple of hours in a pasture every day.
> The big picture is full of double standards and some animals seem to be allowed to suffer without comment - like horses.
> I wonder what the equine fraternity would think if the RSPCA suggested that they have to have stables built with the same proportions allowed for rabbits - and with constant access to a field.
> Please don't get me wrong, I agree that rabbit welfare needs to be improved - but so does the welfare of other animals, otherwise no-one will take it seriously.


The amended Animal Welfare Act April 07 *isn't* just for rabbits. It is for ALL pet owners and carers of animals.

It just seems the government have done a crap job of publicising it.

Not many people seem to realise they are now legally bound to ensure their animal's needs are met including ensuring they are able to exhibit natural behaviour.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Pouchie said:


> The amended Animal Welfare Act April 07 *isn't* just for rabbits. It is for ALL pet owners and carers of animals.
> 
> It just seems the government have done a crap job of publicising it.
> 
> Not many people seem to realise they are now legally bound to ensure their animal's needs are met including ensuring they are able to exhibit natural behaviour.


 I wonder how that would work if I allowed my dogs to drag down deer in Thetford forest? After all, they are being allowed to exhibit natural behaviours.
The thing which worries me most are what they say in the latest RSPCA begging advert's (despite them having millions gaining interest in bank accoutns) where they say that the new animal welfare laws allow them to interven if they think that an animal is about to be abused.
If this law was extended to humans, the prisons would be overflowing when cops arrested people they didn't like the look of because they looked as though they might be going to break the law.
It is a great pity that no organisation challenged the RSPCA on this law as I believe it is an abuse of human rights. How on earth can someone be prosecuted for something they 'might' be about to do?


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Bloody Hell Eliot!!! Your rabbit pen is like a bloody zoo enclosure!
:lol2:


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

Well as the owner of a dog, a rabbit, pair of gerbils, pair of mice, dwarf hamster, budgie and six fish tanks, I can tell you that if I left it up to the kids', nothing would get fed, cleaned or exercized...:lol2:


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## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

TSKA Rory Matier said:


> Pretty soon this may not be a concern.
> 
> The RSPCA have been pushing for the stopping of rabbits to be kept as a pet by anyone, stipulating it is one of _*the*_ most abused pets in the UK at this present time.
> 
> ...


Will they be running this campaign alongside the anti-skunk one Rory? :whistling2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Trillian said:


> Well as the owner of a dog, a rabbit, pair of gerbils, pair of mice, dwarf hamster, budgie and six fish tanks, I can tell you that if I left it up to the kids', nothing would get fed, cleaned or exercized...:lol2:


 And that includes themselves eh? lol


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I wonder how that would work if I allowed my dogs to drag down deer in Thetford forest? After all, they are being allowed to exhibit natural behaviours.
> The thing which worries me most are what they say in the latest RSPCA begging advert's (despite them having millions gaining interest in bank accoutns) where they say that the new animal welfare laws allow them to interven if they think that an animal is about to be abused.
> If this law was extended to humans, the prisons would be overflowing when cops arrested people they didn't like the look of because they looked as though they might be going to break the law.
> It is a great pity that no organisation challenged the RSPCA on this law as I believe it is an abuse of human rights. How on earth can someone be prosecuted for something they 'might' be about to do?


Some of the crazy cases they are actually taking up seem to be laughed out of court anyway so I think it is mostly scare-mongering and publicity stunts.

The part of the AWA which states we are responsible for ensuring our animals are able to exhibit natural behaviour should be clarified anyway.

There are many instances where this is not possible.

Maybe I will contact the RSPCA and ask if I should be feeding my ferrets live rabbits so that they can exhibit the natural behaviour of killing their own prey? I could argue with them that my ferrets are suffering mentally from having nicely prepared meat placed in a dish for them each day. 

Like Evie quite righly says, horses are naturally nomadic. Does this mean if I own a horse I have to follow it around Great Britain with a tent on my back?

OK I am being pedantic now but there are very real questions like how much space is enough for a rabbit? 2 acres per herd? Not forgetting we must keep them in groups with a dominant pair so that they can exhibit natural social behaviour.

The principal is good and should improve general husbandry but it does seem an open book which can and will be abused by the RSPCA.


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## Trillian (Jul 14, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> And that includes themselves eh? lol


True! :lol2:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Fixx said:


> Will they be running this campaign alongside the anti-skunk one Rory? :whistling2:


 
Take a visit to the Welsh Assembly agendas Fixx.

Last year the Welsh Assembly which comprises 95% anti brigade and is funded by the RSPCA, were looking to commence a campaign which was to initiate the launch of a series of campaigns aimed at predominately the welsh community of pet keepers and exotic owners, alongside Scottish Parliament tha would concentrate on 'pets' that 'they' deemed as unnecesarry for the public to own.

Forerunner was rabbits, followed by primates.

But if you go back to Chris Newmans posts you will in fact see a post indicating the threat of the Welsh assembly.

As you continually refer back to the skunk campaign, we worked on intel at the time. But just because it has not commenced as of yet, does not necessarily mean they won't in the future it just means at present they are gathering statistics, as well as concentrating their efforts primarily upon other issues, such as again another campaign to cease the keeping of primates in the UK in private hands.

It comes down to what they consider more of a priority.

Also, oddly enough the RSPCA did not forsee that the skunk keeping sector would be as large as it has become, and so placed the campaign into a secondary position.

Instead of perhaps just focusing on British legislation try looking at cases overseas such as Europe which will also have a huge affecting factor over here.

Sadly too many people only focus on what happens in this country without ever second glancing what is happening in the states or Europe, which ultimately has some bearing over here in the UK.

If not today, or tomorrow, usually a decision elsewhere affects the UK.

R


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## medusa0373 (Mar 18, 2008)

fern said:


> oh and what also annoys me is all the adverts where people are getting rid of an animal "because the kids got bored" :devil::devil: that makes me SOOOOOOOO angry!! they took on the pet they should know that they would end up looking after it instead of most children. have they not seen how fast toys come and go? an animal would be the same!!


I went to an RSPCA shelter years ago (sorry this isn't about a rabbit) and we were looking at the dogs.

There was the most absolutely beautiful long haired German Shephered there for rehoming, called Zeus - he was 9 years old. And the reason he was at the RSPCA? Because the "son had gotten bored." The dog has always stayed in my mind because he was lovely, but so bewildered to be at the centre. Broke my heart seeing him there. We weren't allowed to rehome him because we both worked so weren't considered to be suitable.


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## NickC0 (Aug 17, 2008)

we have two rescued rabbits my first bunny we have had for 2 years, she was dumped on the moors in the freezing cold if somebody hadn't have found her she would have died, we put her in a 5ft hutch with run underneath, and had a large run on the grass but she just sits in the corner and shakes, vet says she has a fear of large spaces due to being dumped.
Then we got our second RSPCA rabbit from the vets as they take them in, we were told that because we passed the home check once they would do a pre home check instead that was 6 months ago and they still haven't been to see him or us, tried to phone them to remind them but no joy.
But when i went to the vets with them both the other day they had 8 more rabbits up on the board looking for a new home.
it makes me mad:devil: that people get these animals and cannot care for them.
we also have 2 resuce dogs.


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## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

I have to admit, when I worked in a pet shop, one of the most satisfying aspects of my job was when a family came in for a 'cute little bunny', then watching them swiftly change their minds after explaining about hutch size, social requirements, neutering, vaccs.... :whistling2:


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

The RSPCA came into our pet shop today and had the cheek to ask if they could put a collecting tin on the counter - hypocracy if you ask me, one hand out for help while the other seeks to put us out of work!
We do have a PDSA and Marie Curie box though.


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