# F2 Fires



## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Seeing as the seller in the classified section is unwilling to provide any information regarding the F2 Fire, does anybody have any information/documentation about them?

As far as I'm concerned, it's just a nice Fire.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Using the word 'Super' probably gave the wrong impression. Second generation is a bit better but it does seem to be line bred. Or selective. You get better Pastels from a Pastel x Pastel pairing (Not to be confused with Super Pastels - I mean simply the Pastels produced in the same clutch).

Much like Mojave and Yellow Belly.


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## TREV !!! (Mar 26, 2008)

and that is all its billed as....... no one here mentioned genetics apart from the way they are repetedly reproduced,,, fire x fire, and nothing else.
look at the pics and then look at a "normal fire",,, and if ya need more pics ill happily show my collection of fires, and F2's to show the comparison,, (i only have 16 or so) the name is just given to the unique way they look, not like a normal fire,,,, and the price reflects the role of the dice we take......

why not join a royal python morph forum and not just a general herp one and learn something....

bless ya x x x x x


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

TREV !!!! said:


> and that is all its billed as....... no one here mentioned genetics apart from the way they are repetedly reproduced,,, fire x fire, and nothing else.
> look at the pics and then look at a "normal fire",,, and if ya need more pics ill happily show my collection of fires, and F2's to show the comparison,, (i only have 16 or so) the name is just given to the unique way they look, not like a normal fire,,,, and the price reflects the role of the dice we take......
> 
> why not join a royal python morph forum and not just a general herp one and learn something....
> ...


Who's to say this is the only Forum I contribute to?

And all I am stating, is that there is no actual documentation showing any relation to an F2.

Yes they do look very different, and I must say, very nice, but I am only trying to find out more about it, not shoot you down.

So....If I had 2 Normal Fires from different lines, bred them together...I would in theory get a Black Eyed Leucistic, Fires and Normals.

If the Fires produced from this clutch looked a bit different, would they then just be dubbed as F2 Fires?


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Robbie said:


> Using the word 'Super' probably gave the wrong impression. Second generation is a bit better but it does seem to be line bred. Or selective. You get better Pastels from a Pastel x Pastel pairing (Not to be confused with Super Pastels - I mean simply the Pastels produced in the same clutch).
> 
> Much like Mojave and Yellow Belly.


I understand completely where you are coming from, but why is a Fire different? 

Why does the Fire gain "F2" Status yet any other morphs is still just a Pastel or just a Mojave.


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> I understand completely where you are coming from, but why is a Fire different?
> 
> Why does the Fire gain "F2" Status yet any other morphs is still just a Pastel or just a Mojave.


i personally would have thought they would just be fires again cause there is obviously going to be pattern variations as always regardless of which morph.

You could apply the same thing to yellow bellies then because typically from a yellow belly x yellow belly the resulting offspring could be ivory(super) yellow bellies and normals so my question would be would you then call the yellow belly offspring F2 yellow bellies because its the same thing with the fires.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

samroyal2 said:


> i personally would have thought they would just be fires again cause there is obviously going to be pattern variations as always regardless of which morph.
> 
> You could apply the same thing to yellow bellies then because typically from a yellow belly x yellow belly the resulting offspring could be ivory(super) yellow bellies and normals so my question would be would you then call the yellow belly offspring F2 yellow bellies because its the same thing with the fires.


 
That's exactly what I'm getting at, either way, proven or disproven.


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> That's exactly what I'm getting at, either way, proven or disproven.


thats just the way it looks to me anyway i had a look on nerds site earlier and there is nothing to suggest theres an F2 class offspring just merely an explanation how the genetics are like i posted.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

samroyal2 said:


> thats just the way it looks to me anyway i had a look on nerds site earlier and there is nothing to suggest theres an F2 class offspring just merely an explanation how the genetics are like i posted.


 
Yup, I've trawled the net since the add was posted the other day, and have found nothing at all.


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## TREV !!! (Mar 26, 2008)

and just because Kevin @ nerd isnt mentioning the F2 that makes it false does it ??

its not the same as yallow belly from yellow parents lmao,,,, LOOK AT THE PICS... and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,, thats the same as stating from fire x fire ya get fires,,, yes we all know that,,, but you also get the chance of an F2 fire,, look at the pics,,,,,, and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,,

best thing guys is to sit back and watch the fire market,,,, you seee


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

doesn't F2 just refer to the generation?


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

TREV !!!! said:


> and just because Kevin @ nerd isnt mentioning the F2 that makes it false does it ??
> 
> its not the same as yallow belly from yellow parents lmao,,,, LOOK AT THE PICS... and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,, thats the same as stating from fire x fire ya get fires,,, yes we all know that,,, but you also get the chance of an F2 fire,, look at the pics,,,,,, and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,,
> 
> best thing guys is to sit back and watch the fire market,,,, you seee


so if its not a breeding line what makes it F2 then your explanations are a puzzling?


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## TREV !!! (Mar 26, 2008)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> Yup, I've trawled the net since the add was posted the other day, and have found nothing at all.


 
yes and ?????? try the net for pics and a load of info about harlequin royals?? vanilla's?? img's ??? leopard's??? you wont find much but they are all out there,,,,,,,,,,,, and on the market,, and i have all of them, but as you wont find much info dont make make em false...

another one is firefly,,,,,,try that, i have eggs in the incubator, and buyers for ALL of em lmao,,,,, see what ya can find out bout em ....... when ya dont,,,, just ask lol... because.. YOU ..dont know, dont make it false.
trev


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

TREV !!!! said:


> yes and ?????? try the net for pics and a load of info about harlequin royals?? vanilla's?? img's ??? leopard's??? you wont find much but they are all out there,,,,,,,,,,,, and on the market,, and i have all of them, but as you wont find much info dont make make em false...
> 
> another one is firefly,,,,,,try that, i have eggs in the incubator, and buyers for ALL of em lmao,,,,, see what ya can find out bout em ....... when ya dont,,,, just ask lol... because.. YOU ..dont know, dont make it false.
> trev


so explain then its obvious people are interested so if were wrong why not give a explanation how


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

TREV !!!! said:


> yes and ?????? try the net for pics and a load of info about harlequin royals?? vanilla's?? img's ??? leopard's??? you wont find much but they are all out there,,,,,,,,,,,, and on the market,, and i have all of them, but as you wont find much info dont make make em false...
> 
> another one is firefly,,,,,,try that, i have eggs in the incubator, and buyers for ALL of em lmao,,,,, see what ya can find out bout em ....... when ya dont,,,, just ask lol... because.. YOU ..dont know, dont make it false.
> trev


Well yes, there is plenty of information available regarding Vanillas, Leopards, and Harlequins.

But your F2's are puzzling me. I'd be interested to see your collection.


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## samroyal2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Akua_Ko_Nalu said:


> Well yes, there is plenty of information available regarding Vanillas, Leopards, and Harlequins.
> 
> But your F2's are puzzling me. I'd be interested to see your collection.


pictures would be good to see


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm shocked nobody else noticed the other odd things in that add 

Why have you got red axanthic fires for less than fires?

Why does your friend have on his site, the most general term ever Royal morphs - £200

And are you claiming your fire's with busy patterns to be just normals? Assuming you're now saying there "could" be a hidden gene involved. I'm guessing none of this has been proven.

Here's a screen shot of your friends website...










If you don't want things to sound dodgy then perhaps a proper explanation is in order? Any other ligit royal breeder's website i've ever been on will never class royal python morphs as £200 - this gives the impression the person doesn't know what they are talking about, and that every other royal python morph they own will cost £200. This sort of generalizing is made on numerous add's that are in fact scams.

Hence why i am warning others to be wary of you... things just don't add up. I don't mind admiting when i'm wrong, but there was several pricing/wording issues that didn't sound right - not just the super fire issue. F2 just means you've bred related offspring together.

I'd love nothing more than the discovering of even more complexes found within the fire. Nobody has mentioned as far as i'm aware that there are any apart from you and your friend. Sure they might enhance other morphs like the yellow belly's have done thus far, and the F2 generation might appear brighter than the original fire... but you are selling one of those for almost double the price of a red axanthic fire, which is also confusing. I'd love to see your collection as well... and out of all the fire talk, if you do have fire red axanthics, then this would easily be my first choice out of everything you're selling


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

TREV !!!! said:


> its not the same as yallow belly from yellow parents lmao,,,, LOOK AT THE PICS... and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,, thats the same as stating from fire x fire ya get fires,,, yes we all know that,,, but you also get the chance of an F2 fire,, look at the pics,,,,,, and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,,


No. Actually. You're tripping yourself up again. 
I said that an F2 Fire as you described it is like an enhanced Fire. I understand your use of the 'Super' form - however universally 'Super' refers to Black Eyed Leucys.

I mean you get far more visual Yellow Belly (Mojave, Pastel.. etc) offspring from a YB x YB pairing. Whereas a YB x Normal can produce YB - they won't be nearly as vivid as those from the double YB pairing.


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## TREV !!! (Mar 26, 2008)

here we go again... the add for £200 morphs says "PRICE FROM" at the top of the column...you pasted vthe page so have a look.we had some pastels @ £200 so started the price at that...

the red axanthic fire is a fire from a red axanthic x fire pairing, and a female at that the price reflects her age and size,,, some of the male fires are prooven breeders and ready to go now,,,the female is a tiddler and needs a few years under her.,,,,,, absolutly anyone is welcome to see the full collection anytime 7 days a week,,, and if you turn up tommorow two of the owners of ember reptiles will be there aswell, 
as for the line breeding thing thats not the case here,,,,, i thought the the F2 was a second generation of fires from the origonal lucy, but mike said otherwise,,,F2 stands for fire2 a better fire, they only ever appear from fire x fire crosses,,,, there is no comparison to a normal at all,,,
ill take better pics today and post tonight after work,,
trev


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## MrBoa (Sep 11, 2007)

Can I have an F2 Royal Python Morph please? will that be £200 or will it cost more?


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## TREV !!! (Mar 26, 2008)

sam. said:


> Can I have an F2 Royal Python Morph please? will that be £200 or will it cost more?


 
Are you a puddin or sumat???? did you read the post before you tried to be funny ????

that /\ just makes ya look daft m8.

but to answer the questions,, yes ya can and yes it will.


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## MrBoa (Sep 11, 2007)

TREV !!!! said:


> Are you a puddin or sumat???? did you read the post before you tried to be funny ????
> 
> that /\ just makes ya look daft m8.
> 
> but to answer the questions,, yes ya can and yes it will.


well I think the whole thread is funny :lol2:

and no I am not, and yes I obviously did.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

TREV !!!! said:


> here we go again... the add for £200 morphs says "PRICE FROM" at the top of the column...you pasted vthe page so have a look.we had some pastels @ £200 so started the price at that...
> 
> the red axanthic fire is a fire from a red axanthic x fire pairing, and a female at that the price reflects her age and size,,, some of the male fires are prooven breeders and ready to go now,,,the female is a tiddler and needs a few years under her.,,,,,, absolutly anyone is welcome to see the full collection anytime 7 days a week,,, and if you turn up tommorow two of the owners of ember reptiles will be there aswell,
> as for the line breeding thing thats not the case here,,,,, i thought the the F2 was a second generation of fires from the origonal lucy, but mike said otherwise,,,F2 stands for fire2 a better fire, they only ever appear from fire x fire crosses,,,, there is no comparison to a normal at all,,,
> ...


Fair enough dude, my eyes deceived me there. Perhaps in future an explanation should be provided at the start and you can see where i'm coming....

I could go on today and say i have harlequin F2 available and people would think it's related offspring.. and then i could call it a super harlequin. Without an explanation this is what is going to happen. The het red axanthic fire (now knowing she's female) is still an unbelievable price considering in the add you have 07 fires for £1200 and this girl costs £950, i take it she doesn't feed very well or something? Again there was no explanation of why you'd charge something with more potential for less.


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## Jake89 (May 30, 2007)

i havent even seen these for sale, can some one point me too the thread peas


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snake-classifieds/127450-royal-pythons-blood-pythons-sale.html


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## nuggett5 (Sep 14, 2007)

TREV !!!! said:


> and just because Kevin @ nerd isnt mentioning the F2 that makes it false does it ??
> 
> its not the same as yallow belly from yellow parents lmao,,,, LOOK AT THE PICS... and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,, thats the same as stating from fire x fire ya get fires,,, yes we all know that,,, but you also get the chance of an F2 fire,, look at the pics,,,,,, and its not a line breeding thing either,,,,,,
> 
> best thing guys is to sit back and watch the fire market,,,, you seee


I think the fella might be right. I have herd something like this with spiders. when you breed 2 togther, you get spiders ofcores but there will be ones that are better looking in ways of patten and colour . I know there diffrent in ways of genetics but you get what i mean, with the fires i ges the way it works is that the fires have the genes from one snake, and the f2s get there genes from both, wich makes them diffrent, just because you breed two fires together dose not mean you will get a lucy. probley not sed this right but i hope you get what i mean?


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

is this not the same with most co-dom royal morphs?

mojave x mojove produces much stonger, crisper mojovaes, ditto with pastels, cinnies etc. I think the "F2" things was incorrectly used thats all.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

Mason, I said the exact same thing my first comment on both threads. First page of this. I honestly don't know why this fight even came about.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Robbie said:


> Mason, I said the exact same thing my first comment on both threads. First page of this. I honestly don't know why this fight even came about.


 
It wasn't so much a fight, I was simply asking what an F2 was, but after numerous occasions gave up. 

As F2, is after all, a term used for generations of breeding.

Yes they are very nice, Crisp looking Fires, but why couldn't they have been labelled that? 

If you read every post, the seller states that they were a "Super from Fire x Fire" at one point, but wasn't a Black Eyed Leucistic. 

I'm letting it rest, frankly I doubt they have 16 Fires if they talk with the attitude they did.


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## Robbie (Dec 4, 2006)

I wasn't getting on at you AKN. 
Again, not sounding like a suckup, but I did mention that I thought the use of the word Super was wrong.


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## Akua_Ko_Nalu (Feb 15, 2007)

Robbie said:


> I wasn't getting on at you AKN.
> Again, not sounding like a suckup, but I did mention that I thought the use of the word Super was wrong.


 
I know, your post wasn't at all provocative, I was just trying to set the record straight, all in all, a big misunderstanding/mis use of a word?


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

i mis-understood the royal morphs - £200 but not the rest :lol:

So i do still kind of stand by what i originally said... the wording issues.. which most agree on... doesnt matter now though, there has been an explantion of some sorts made.


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