# Neutering



## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

I have pup into vets on Friday for injections he is around 14 weeks this weekend. How long is it til i can book him in for the snip ???? Can i do it at this appointment ?? I don't want to look a wally for asking if it isn't for months and months.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

I think i read somewhere that they normaly do it from 6 months onwards, but you may find your vet may do it earlier than that.

Just had Murphy done and hes 6 and half months.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

martyb said:


> I think i read somewhere that they normaly do it from 6 months onwards, but you may find your vet may do it earlier than that.
> 
> Just had Murphy done and hes 6 and half months.


I thought that was the right age too 
How far in advance can you book this i want to get it done before he knows what they are for ??? I have a Bullboxer that i want done, i have a 3 year old in house so could do without a big dog trying to hump him all the time lol


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

personally, unless there are medical reasons, wouldnt neuter a dog or bitch until he or she is at least 2 years old.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*neutering*

it shouldn't be done before 6 months really.Your dog shouldn't be humping your child even if he is entire,it's not acceptable behaviour from him.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

TEENY said:


> I thought that was the right age too
> How far in advance can you book this i want to get it done before he knows what they are for ??? I have a Bullboxer that i want done, i have a 3 year old in house so could do without a big dog trying to hump him all the time lol


I have seen his pics, hes lovely.

Best bet about booking him in is to have a word with the vet, they may book it in advance for you or may say leave it till nearer the time.

My springer tried to hump my youngest lad and he said look mum hes trying to give me a kiss:blush:, he never did it again and hopefuly now hes done he wont do it again. The vet said to me yesterday if he does it just poor a glass of cold water onto his head, same if he does it to the cushion and maybe remove the cushion and replace with a different one.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

sarahc said:


> it shouldn't be done before 6 months really.Your dog shouldn't be humping your child even if he is entire,it's not acceptable behaviour from him.



No not acceptable behaviour but sometimes it does happen, so it as to be stopped straight away as the vet said its like learning to sit, once they learn it they carry on doing it.


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

Kerriebaby said:


> personally, unless there are medical reasons, wouldnt neuter a dog or bitch until he or she is at least 2 years old.



Can i just ask why. 

I have had Murphy done cause i think its kinder on him, i was never going to breed with him so now he can be a happy dog not a frustrated one.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> personally, unless there are medical reasons, wouldnt neuter a dog or bitch until he or she is at least 2 years old.


Have to agree with this, especially considering your dog has Boxer in him. 



martyb said:


> The vet said to me yesterday if he does it just poor a glass of cold water onto his head, same if he does it to the cushion and maybe remove the cushion and replace with a different one.


:gasp: That's disgraceful for a Vet to recommend that! What an awful way to treat a dog, a useless correction and considering how far Teeny has bought this pup, scaring and mistreating him like that could undo all of the work she has put into him.


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## tina b (Oct 3, 2007)

pretty sure vet told me best age is 6-12 months ..
only one of mine was done and that was for certain reasons and nothing to do with breeding and i cant remember exact age he was sorry:blush:
i wouldnt consider having a large breed done till it had finished growing though


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> Have to agree with this, especially considering your dog has Boxer in him.
> 
> 
> 
> :gasp: That's disgraceful for a Vet to recommend that! What an awful way to treat a dog, a useless correction and considering how far Teeny has bought this pup, scaring and mistreating him like that could undo all of the work she has put into him.



May i just say that i have not used this method, when he tried humping my son i just removed him and said no, like i said he did it twice and both times i have removed him in the same way and he didn't do it again, i think she was a nurse not a vet, sorry my mistake, i i know it doesn't make it any better, i think i can see why where she was coimng from.

Agree Teeny as done very well with her pup.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> personally, unless there are medical reasons, wouldnt neuter a dog or bitch until he or she is at least 2 years old.


Any reason ??? I am curious as i would not want to cause him any unneeded harm 



sarahc said:


> it shouldn't be done before 6 months really.Your dog shouldn't be humping your child even if he is entire,it's not acceptable behaviour from him.


He isn't humping anything at the moment, i am just thinking ahead that this dog will be bigger than me son so it might be a problem. I know it isn't acceptable behaviour, but i thought the snip would help him to have less of a desire to do it than if he was intact.



LoveForLizards said:


> Have to agree with this, especially considering your dog has Boxer in him.
> 
> 
> 
> :gasp: That's disgraceful for a Vet to recommend that! What an awful way to treat a dog, a useless correction and considering how far Teeny has bought this pup, scaring and mistreating him like that could undo all of the work she has put into him.


Why because of Boxer ????
I am new to this dog stuff you see. Is it because it is a bigger breed ??
or other reasons ???

Don't worry i wouldn't be tempted to do that to him unless absolutely needed. The poor thingis scared enough if you say NO sternly 
That would probably take him back to square one


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

This is aimed at sports dogs, but pet dogs are no different
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

few threads from a dog forum (sorry if this is not allowed)
Puppy Advice? Neuteuring - Airedale Terrier (me again!) - Dog Chat
To Spay or Not to Spay (or castrate) - Dog Chat

well worth reading and googling for further info about both sides of the fence...would post more links, but im about to go to work x


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## Titch1980 (Mar 6, 2006)

as far as im aware it would depend on the dog because his "dangly bits" may not have dropped yet?


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Some people say do it before they mature some say after. I had my boy done at 7yrs but my bitch done at 7 months before she had her first season because my boy was intact at the time and i didnt want puppies.

Marina


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

TEENY said:


> Why because of Boxer ????
> I am new to this dog stuff you see. Is it because it is a bigger breed ??
> or other reasons ???
> 
> ...


1 of the reasons is the Boxer is a large and relatively slow maturing breed, thus the joints and bones need plenty of free time to grow properly. But also, Boxers are often considered 'high risk' dogs for Hip Dysplasia, and judging by his cross and the fact he's already had 3 homes, I would take a running guess that the breeder wasn't all the best so didn't do health tests in the first place. Neutering (or rather, the cut off of the 'sex hormones' that comes with neutering) affects the growth plate closure and development, so if the hormones are reduced, it could cause the plates to grow abnormally and cause them not to close properly or when they 'should', meaning the dog will be at much higher risk of Hip Dysplasia. : victory:


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## martyb (Sep 5, 2007)

I had my basset done at about 7/8 months and he as never had any problems with him being done at that age, hes a happy and healthy 8 year old.
He doesn't hump, scent mark, stray and other dogs hes not interested, he lived 3 newfoundland bitches very happily, so i would go for neutering.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> This is aimed at sports dogs, but pet dogs are no different
> Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete
> 
> few threads from a dog forum (sorry if this is not allowed)
> ...


Thanks i will make a cuppa and have a read of these 



Titch1980 said:


> as far as im aware it would depend on the dog because his "dangly bits" may not have dropped yet?





LoveForLizards said:


> 1 of the reasons is the Boxer is a large and relatively slow maturing breed, thus the joints and bones need plenty of free time to grow properly. But also, Boxers are often considered 'high risk' dogs for Hip Dysplasia, and judging by his cross and the fact he's already had 3 homes, I would take a running guess that the breeder wasn't all the best so didn't do health tests in the first place. Neutering (or rather, the cut off of the 'sex hormones' that comes with neutering) affects the growth plate closure and development, so if the hormones are reduced, it could cause the plates to grow abnormally and cause them not to close properly or when they 'should', meaning the dog will be at much higher risk of Hip Dysplasia. : victory:


Ok well maybe i will wait then. I was under the impression that it was better to get it done earlier but obviously not. I will llok through the links above and read up on ideal timing for boxers and staffs etc. Then fri i will ask vet along with all i have learnt
Thanks everyone


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

The breeder of my dog said not to have him don tillhe is 2. I have read on a lot of good sites that its best not to get a lot of dogs don too early.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*humping*



martyb said:


> No not acceptable behaviour but sometimes it does happen, so it as to be stopped straight away as the vet said its like learning to sit, once they learn it they carry on doing it.


Oh I agree it's all part of learning with a young dog.My dogs 5 years old and entire but wouldn't hump anyone as he knows it's not on.I just used a sharp ah ah when he was a youngster although in our case it was the other dogs that got the humping foisted on them.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

sarahc said:


> Oh I agree it's all part of learning with a young dog.My dogs 5 years old and entire but wouldn't hump anyone as he knows it's not on.I just used a sharp ah ah when he was a youngster although in our case it was the other dogs that got the humping foisted on them.


Poor dogs lol
We have no other dogs or cats in the house which is why i worried about my 3 year old as he will be 'of height' to be humped :blush:


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Please do not let him reach maturity before neutering him, especially as he has Staffie in him. All you'll end up with is a big, bolshy male dog. He is only a pet so has no reason to reach sexual maturity.

You can get him done as soon as he has bits, but 6 months would be fine.

I have neutered a number of young dogs without any problems at all. And there are countless rescues all over the country who neuter at six months and younger. Which should say something : )


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

marthaMoo said:


> Please do not let him reach maturity before neutering him, especially as he has Staffie in him. All you'll end up with is a big, bolshy male dog. He is only a pet so has no reason to reach sexual maturity.
> 
> You can get him done as soon as he has bits, but 6 months would be fine.
> 
> I have neutered a number of young dogs without any problems at all. And there are countless rescues all over the country who neuter at six months and younger. Which should say something : )


Everyones views are just so different. I think i will read up and then discuss it thorougly with vet on Friday. I will go with what vet syas after i give him all info iabout dog and tell him what i have read, as i assume the vet would know best of all. I just didn't want to go into it blind.


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## SilverSteno (Feb 12, 2006)

TEENY said:


> Everyones views are just so different. I think i will read up and then discuss it thorougly with vet on Friday. I will go with what vet syas after i give him all info iabout dog and tell him what i have read, as i assume the vet would know best of all. I just didn't want to go into it blind.


You will find that on a topic like this, everyones attitudes are different ranging from getting them done as soon as possible to never having it done at all and everything inbetween:lol2:
The most important thing is to look at all the advice, the pro's and cons of every option and decide what YOU think is the best course of action. There is a lot of opinions and advice out there, not all of it based on actual evidence though.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Many vets are now advising to neuter dogs and bitches earlier and ealier. I am not entirely sure this is always best for the dogs, especialyl in dogs as opposed to bitches. 

Neutering early effects the closure of the growth plates, they close later. This means that the dog grows leggier and taller and it can lead to orthapedic problems or exacerbate hip or joint problems. 

There is also quite a lot of research to suggest that neutering males dogs early increases the risk of prostate cancer and bone cancers. Both dificult to treat. It does reduce the risk of testicular cancer, and can reduce the risk of other prostate problems excluding cancer, but that is the case at any age. 

We have had quite few dogs into our breeder rescue that exhibit permenant puppy like behaviour, possibly due to early neutering. I would imagine that with a boxer or corss that would be a nightmare! 

I firmly believe (and as I breed and show I know a lot of people with entire dogs and bitches) that not neutering has no effect on behaviour in almost all cases. Humping, running off etc are all behavioural problems, and if un-neutered dogs are such a nightmare, how come so many people that show or breed own them with no apparent problems? In some cases, where fear aggression or simimlar problems exist, neutering has actually made the dog worse. 

Personally, I would wait until the dog was fully grown, which fro most breeds is around two years of age.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

I think the thing is most people who breed or show dogs will say wait untill they mature, because thats what they do and know.

Allot of vets will say different things, but remember the cost of neutering increases as your dog grows.lol

I personally would never let a Bull Breed reach maturity. A good friend of mine runs a Bull Breed rescue and has worked with Bull Breeds for a number of years, within other rescues and now there own home run rescue. They are one of the most exprienced BB people in this country. And they will now happily neuter pups from 13 weeks old. Any entire males that come in are treated with tardak straight away and then neutered asap because of what a handfull they can be, especially around other male dogs.

I personally wouldnt let a male get beyond 9 months without neutering.


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

i dont belive in nuturing untill fully grown, i mean every one has there own ideas about it! no one ever agrees with some other peoples ideas :lol2:

I like to know my dog has the full potential of growth before i go cutting its gonads off, or spaying. 

Mines going to be done this year...I actually cant wait....:2thumb:


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> I think the thing is most people who breed or show dogs will say wait untill they mature, because thats what they do and know.


That's a bit of an assumption to make. Whilst most people who breed and show keep their dogs entire for that, it doesn't mean they don't ever neuter, or own neutered pet dogs, nor keep in regular touch with puppy oners who may or may not neuter at any age. 

I would say breeders ( a lot of whom also work closely with breed rescues) probably have some of the the broadest experience of neutered and un-neutered dogs of any age.


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

You could go for a suprelorin implant (hands up who knows what this is without google)


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

midori said:


> Many vets are now advising to neuter dogs and bitches earlier and ealier. I am not entirely sure this is always best for the dogs, especialyl in dogs as opposed to bitches.
> 
> *Neutering early effects the closure of the growth plates, they close later. This means that the dog grows leggier and taller and it can lead to orthapedic problems or exacerbate hip or joint problems. *
> 
> ...


 
thats the reason i agree with waiting, a bolshy dog will be bolshy regardless. Esp a staffy, nuturing wont change it lol. I mean seriously though.
IF nuturing effects the temperment of a dog, I personally only hope it does but dont belive it does. Why would you want a mellow staffy. There not mellow dogs. I wouldnt change my lad for the world! hes frickin nuts and i love it. we both regually run around the house like a headless chicken its great fun! esp when you trip over the dog and go flying :lol2: I've personally never met a calm staffy! there great, both nurturd and un nutured dogs are nuts (the ones ive met anywho)

Only reason im having him done, is because he is a very dominant dog, always has been even from 6 months old and before.
Im doing it to hope it stops his agression to other dogs. Simple else i wouldnt bother : victory: 

Teeny ide say have a word with your vet see what they reccomend, Come back do loads of research in to both breeds and nuturing. Before and afters sign up to a few forums ask loads of questions...i mean u have a while till your pup is 6 months old. And then make your own mind up. every ones oppinions are different, and more often than not conflict each other, Confusing the hell outa you!!! :lol2:


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

arvey said:


> You could go for a suprelorin implant (hands up who knows what this is without google)


 
ill stick with looking about the room so teacher doesnt pick me out of the bunch of others who dont know...trails of to google :whistling2:


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

^^^ the "injection" for male dogs....did some research recently!

With regard to show/working breeders. IME mos


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

arvey said:


> You could go for a suprelorin implant (hands up who knows what this is without google)


 
wow. Just like our implant! :lol2:


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

Nebbz said:


> wow. Just like our implant! :lol2:


 Yep the drug has been used for birth control in zoos for many years (they dont use it in male lions as it makes their mane fall out). Its licensed for dogs, works for about a year and has no real side effects (apart from initial stimulation of sexual receptors so the humping increases for the first two weeks) (lucky that doesnt happen in humans as there will be a load of raging nymphos leaving the clinic!)


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

arvey said:


> Yep the drug has been used for birth control in zoos for many years (they dont use it in male lions as it makes their mane fall out). Its licensed for dogs, works for about a year and has no real side effects (apart from initial stimulation of sexual receptors so the humping increases for the first two weeks) (lucky that doesnt happen in humans as there will be a load of raging nymphos leaving the clinic!)


 
lmao with human pills its pretty much teh same for me, I walk in a raging nympho, walk out a grumpy old cow :lol2: vile things...all in the mist of not getting pregnant...they do work though...cus you dont want s*x :lol2:

although couldnt it cause a problem when it wares off?? I.e esp for dog dominant dogs?

Ill still go for cutting em off! Buts its great that you have more option in controling it!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

arvey said:


> You could go for a suprelorin implant (hands up who knows what this is without google)


Is the Superloin 100% protection, then? Is there any chance of the dog dropping or losing fertility once it has worn off or been removed? : victory:


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

As it does wear off, you would need repeat implants (again, done in zoos so not a problem). Its good for letting people know what their dog would be like castrated so theyve got the choice, or those who want to breed their dogs but not just yet.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Never thought I'd say I'm with Marina on this one.

Get them done when they need doing. It's all very well saying "leave them til they're 2" but that wont work for everyone - if the majority of people did this, we'd have thousnads more "accidental" litters about - because most people are not responsible enough to keep their dogs safe and secure when in season or unneutered. If you can, that's great, but Joe Bloggs usually cant - the evidence is in rescue centres all over the country, free ads and roaming our streets.

If you have one of each sex, you neuter them asap. If you cant cope with a season (on lead walks, constant supervision, even in the garden, keeping your house secure or making sure other dogs are neutered or kenneled elsewhere), get them spayed.

Growth plates, coat changes, insignificant compared to the amount of people who just aren't capable of looking after their pets. I'd rather have a dog with dodgy hair than a litter of pups, and I'm sure the dog would agree too! :2thumb:

As for it making no change to their behaviour, I disagree wholly - while it wont help issues not related to hormones - there is nothing scarier than an entire dog who can jump a 6-7ft fence and run off to visit the rottie in season down the road. As soon as he was neutered, he never jumped the fence again. And in Sky's case, neutering stopped her 6-12 weekly seasons, her depression and heavy bleeding - and her temperament improved.

I'm not saying everyone has to neuter. I'm saying make a choice based on your situation. If you're a capable responsible person and your dog will benefit from being neutered later - that's great. If you're worried your dog might get pregnant or there's a higher risk of mammary cancer - get them spayed.

I also think testicles on dogs are the most revolting thing ever. There's no need for them, I'm sick of seeing skinhead chavs walking staffies with shiny plums - who wants to see that?! Even worse - the people that share pics of their dogs reclining on the sofa with them on view - put them away or refrain from sharing piccies please - YUK - irresponsible and ugly. :lol2:


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

LoveForLizards said:


> Is the Superloin 100% protection, then? Is there any chance of the dog dropping or losing fertility once it has warn off or been removed? : victory:


Once worn off, full fertility is claimed (and they have done trials so I suppose its correct).


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## arvey (Jan 3, 2008)

Ever heard of Neuticles (another google quest)



LisaLQ said:


> Never thought I'd say I'm with Marina on this one.
> 
> Get them done when they need doing. It's all very well saying "leave them til they're 2" but that wont work for everyone - if the majority of people did this, we'd have thousnads more "accidental" litters about - because most people are not responsible enough to keep their dogs safe and secure when in season or unneutered. If you can, that's great, but Joe Bloggs usually cant - the evidence is in rescue centres all over the country, free ads and roaming our streets.
> 
> ...


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

im glad u wrote that about the plumbs there bloomin mingin aint they! :bash: 

NOT TO MENTION its as if when they lie there its like HEY LOOK AT MY BALLS!...not to far from human males, but still EW


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## BecciBoo (Aug 31, 2007)

We advise males to be done when they start cocking there leg and females 6 weeks after there first season.

Reasons for neutering:
Males - the obvious
Females - prevent unwanted litters, mammary tumours

Reasons against:
Males - none except if u want to breed
Females - can cause incontinence in some, especially if done too early. 

Personally I would have any dog or cat neutered as soon as possible if not planning on breeding from them. I've seen a lot of animals with tumours and its so sad.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

LisaLQ, yes, I suppose I agree and what I should have said was 'ideally' wait until the dog is mature. 

However, that said, I don't think dogs shoud ever be neutered for the owners convenience, but because it benefit the animal. I don't think hip dysplacia (and there is a link between this and late closure of the growth plates) is a minor problem for the dog, especially one that requires surgery.


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

Nebbz said:


> Teeny ide say have a word with your vet see what they reccomend, Come back do loads of research in to both breeds and nuturing. Before and afters sign up to a few forums ask loads of questions...i mean u have a while till your pup is 6 months old. And then make your own mind up. every ones oppinions are different, and more often than not conflict each other, Confusing the hell outa you!!! :lol2:


Yus i think this is the route. I will chat to vet on Fri like i said and go from there


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

beats thinking oh but they said its good to, but i dont really think i should...but then if i do....no..AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :2wallbang:


Thats how i felt then i did what i said to do. Made my mind up and its his best interest at heart. Read and heard to many storys where it worked to calm em down and didnt. spend my life confused all the time, dont want to be confused about my animals! :whistling2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Talking of chemical ways of castration there is also TARDAK 

All my boys have been castrated when *I* thought the time was right which has always been between 6 months and 16 months of age


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

midori said:


> LisaLQ, yes, I suppose I agree and what I should have said was 'ideally' wait until the dog is mature.
> 
> However, that said, I don't think dogs shoud ever be neutered for the owners convenience, but because it benefit the animal. I don't think hip dysplacia (and there is a link between this and late closure of the growth plates) is a minor problem for the dog, especially one that requires surgery.


As the owner of a dog with hip dysplasia, I'm aware of how serious it is and wasn't belittling it. But I do think that the risks are minimal (I've never heard of them til now) compared to all the unwanted pregnancies.

However, I do think it is less of a big deal to wait with a male than it is with a female. For me I would rather have a dog with joint issue than cancer.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

I just want to say that I have a 7 year old bitch unspayed and no health issues, never had a problem with her being in seasons, never had any attention from males and never been at risk of "being caught"

My next dog will be male, and unless there are reasons I will not be neutering him

Not everyone who owns uneutered dogs or bitches are irresponsible morons


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

LisaLQ said:


> As the owner of a dog with hip dysplasia, I'm aware of how serious it is and wasn't belittling it. But I do think that the risks are minimal (I've never heard of them til now) compared to all the unwanted pregnancies.
> 
> However, I do think it is less of a big deal to wait with a male than it is with a female. For me I would rather have a dog with joint issue than cancer.


 
And that is part of the problem, vets do not supply owners with ALL the information and allow them to make an informed decision, I assume as they can't be bothered, don't thinkt he client will udnerstand, or don't have the time to explain it fully. How many people I wonder just ask the vets when the best time to neuter is, vet says '6 months' and the client just agrees and books dog in with no further questions. 

I also agree there are far more reasons for bitches to be neutered early than dogs. However, neutering early does increase the risk of some cancers, such as osteosarcoma, which are very hard to spot and treat early enough. (there is a much higher death rate from osteosarcoma than mammary cancers for instance) So there are far more pros and cons in the case of both dog and bitches which owners are not always aware of. 

I think we would all agree that what we want is what is best for our dogs. That is for each owner to look into and decide based on ALL factors.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*blessed balls*



LisaLQ said:


> I also think testicles on dogs are the most revolting thing ever. There's no need for them, I'm sick of seeing skinhead chavs walking staffies with shiny plums YUK - irresponsible and ugly. :lol2:


:gasp::gasp::gasp:I'm with you on the reasons for neutering but not on them being ugly.Nature put them there.I think white bull terriers sport particularly fine pink ones:grin1:


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I think leaving a bitch unspayed at that age AND taking on a male dog as company is irresponsible. There's no need for it. Unless you're breeding.


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

I think neutering is one of those things where you will find evidence to support either side of the argument. I've read some pretty compelling studies showing neutering at 8-12 weeks is considered the safest time, and the local cat rescue here now routinely neuters at that age, which I think is great. In female dogs it is absolutely imperative to neuter before the first season if you want the maximum protection against mammary cancer, but in male dogs the benefits are less clear. However, with a staff x boxer, I would neuter as young as possible - once male dogs get into habits it's more difficult to break them, and if you prevent those habits coming along in the first place, it's got to be of great benefit. With his cross I wouldn't worry about the large dog argument - that is more about giant breeds and boxers are only medium sized.


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

hmmm if 6-12 months is recommended the best time why do vets do it before? both my dogs were done at about 4months maybe later both when they had there second lot of jabs.
if im asked by a vet if i want this done ,im not going to question it.
didnt know any diff: victory:


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> I just want to say that I have a 7 year old bitch unspayed and no health issues, never had a problem with her being in seasons, never had any attention from males and never been at risk of "being caught"
> 
> My next dog will be male, and unless there are reasons I will not be neutering him
> 
> Not everyone who owns uneutered dogs or bitches are irresponsible morons


now that is taking too much of a risk for my liking, my next dog will be female, and both will be done. No risk then!.


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## midori (Aug 27, 2006)

Nebbz said:


> now that is taking too much of a risk for my liking, my next dog will be female, and both will be done. No risk then!.


 
To be fair, Kerrybaby said her next dog, she didn't say she was getting it while she still had her unspayed bitch. Also, for all we know, even if she is getting it while she still has her bitch, who's to say she hasn't a relative where the dog or bitch can stay when the bitch is in season, or thatshe won't kennel the male dog at that time?


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

just my opinion tbh, I mean if i had a male and female dog, i wouldn't expect friends or relatives to take it just because i wasnt responsible and done what was needed. Its my responsibility, and my burden to take not theirs.

Its just something i wouldn't risk as my next dog will more than likley be another head strong, bolshy, daft as a brush staffy just like i have now. WHO WILL charge through doors, walls, chew through what ever just to get the bitch.

In no way am i having ago at kerry for her idea's As u said i dont know if it will be at the same time, just stating that is a risk i wouldn't bare to take! my dogs bad enough when my rats come in to season!


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

rach666 said:


> hmmm if 6-12 months is recommended the best time why do vets do it before? both my dogs were done at about 4months maybe later both when they had there second lot of jabs.
> if im asked by a vet if i want this done ,im not going to question it.
> didnt know any diff: victory:


Really? I'm impressed you have a modern vet who is willing to think outside of the box, which is good.


I have taken this from another forum, but its basically a summary of the studies that have been done.



> The scientific studies carried out have suggested the opportune time to neuter is between 3 months - 4 months. It has been tradition that the ideal time to neuter pets was 6-7 months of age. With this guideline, vets used to be reluctant to advise clients to neuter earlier than 6 months; but times have changed. Studies have been done to evaluate the effects on early neutering with very positive results. Some individuals have tried to highlight unfounded concerns and have offered partial and misleading information which has lead to some public confusion.
> 
> Studies have been done on kittens and puppies as early as 2-13 wks of age. Since these animals are so young, one of the major concerns is regarding anesthesia. Anesthetic risk is low when the vet takes into account that these animals must be managed differently to adult dogs with care in regards to low blood sugar and low temperature. It has been shown that these younger animals have a faster recovery rate than do the adult animals.
> These animals have a fast recovery for two different reasons;
> ...


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*un neutered males*

I don't understand why everyone thinks male dogs turn into maniacs when a bitch is in season.If your dog is well mannered he will remain so.He might lose weight and be anxious but he won't turn into an uncontrollable monster.From the point of view of cutting down on unwanted dogs I'm all for neutering and if there are behaviour issues but not because male dogs can't behave when a bitch is in season.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

I think jumping a 6-7ft fence and buggering off to visit someone's bitch in season is pretty much a nuisance behaviour, isn't it? :lol2:

After all, we can only be responsible for ours - there's nothing stopping chavvy Jimbob down the road leaving his rottie in season in his front garden (with a 3ft fence max)...


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I think jumping a 6-7ft fence and buggering off to visit someone's bitch in season is pretty much a nuisance behaviour, isn't it? :lol2:
> 
> After all, we can only be responsible for ours - there's nothing stopping chavvy Jimbob down the road leaving his rottie in season in his front garden (with a 3ft fence max)...


Yes that is a nuisance and the chavs dog down the road may be a nuisance but not simply because it's a male.My dog wouldn't bugger off,would yours?He wouldn't bugger off for any reason even if the gate was open and despite having a full set of balls.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Sarah maybe your dog has never caught the scent of an in season bitch as entire male dogs lose all knowledge of training when their hormones rage


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*un neutered males*



Shell195 said:


> Sarah maybe your dog has never caught the scent of an in season bitch as entire male dogs lose all knowledge of training when their hormones rage


My dog lives with his un neutered sister and until last year his un neutered mother and his niece who is only a puppy at the moment.He doesn't wreck the house or turn into some one else.Hes the same good dog that I expect him to be always.Obviously he frets.I'm just saying that males are more than testicles.I'm not advocating every one leaves their males entire,just saying that they don't turn from David Banner to the Hulk.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

sarahc said:


> My dog lives with his un neutered sister and until last year his un neutered mother and his niece who is only a puppy at the moment.He doesn't wreck the house or turn into some one else.Hes the same good dog that I expect him to be always.Obviously he frets.I'm just saying that males are more than testicles.I'm not advocating every one leaves their males entire,just saying that they don't turn from David Banner to the Hulk.


How do you manage to keep them apart when the girls are in season? Ive seen my friends GSD stud dog. He is the perfect pet until one of the girls is in season then he turns into a whining, annorexic, sex maniac that can open any door.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*mixed sexes*

I'm not saying it's a picnic in the park.He is very obedient and knows that no means nbviously I seperate during the fertile bit.I still walk them together but I have to keep the bitches on a lead because of other peoples dogs,not my own.As I have had him from newborn he has no issues in life and is a good dog.He does cry in the night at the crucial time but he's not used to being alone.I'm keeping his nephew as well and I am a little anxious about two entire males plus bitches but I can't accept that a trained dog can't be kept in it's place and will rampage wherever his testes take him,dogs are great at following rules.Oh and he does lose weight.


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## rach666 (Dec 12, 2006)

marthaMoo said:


> Really? I'm impressed you have a modern vet who is willing to think outside of the box, which is good.
> 
> 
> I have taken this from another forum, but its basically a summary of the studies that have been done.


 

yeh our vet,asked if we wanted to get our dogs done when there second jab was due... as she would nueter,jab and microchip. while they were under. couldnt beleive how quick they recovered and how fast they healed.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Our vets wont even neuter our adult rescue cats at the same time as their second vaccination as they say its to much stress on their immune systems


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Kerriebaby said:


> personally, unless there are medical reasons, wouldnt neuter a dog or bitch until he or she is at least 2 years old.


on what basis? This is one of the daftest things I've ever heard in my life.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Our vets wont even neuter our adult rescue cats at the same time as their second vaccination as they say its to much stress on their immune systems


I always wonder how sphynx cat breeders get kittens neutered when they are only weeks old.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I always wonder how sphynx cat breeders get kittens neutered when they are only weeks old.


 
Dennis was neutered at 14 weeks old


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> Dennis was neutered at 14 weeks old


That's what I mean. If it's bad to neuter baby animals, why do sphynx breeders do it? Unless it is done to protect their high prices and keep the breed 'exclusive'?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm in a bit of a dilemma with whether to get my dog done or not too. He's 8 months at the moment and I'd always intended to get him neutered from around 6 months (which was what I was initially advised to do.) However since speaking to my vet he told me that if the dog was not showing any form of aggression or wayward behaviour (which admittedly he isn't _yet_) then he would be reluctant to go ahead with it, especially as he's a large breed.
Personally, I want to do whatever's the right thing. Money is no object and as I have absolutely no intention to breed from him whatsoever then it's purely down to what is in his best interests. Another vet advised me to wait until he was fully cocking his leg (which he currently isn't) and another vet said to get him done asap! So I'm in a bit of a quandry really.
The only reluctance I have comes from a very bad past experience with my previous dog who was neutered when he was around 6 months old. Unfortunately ever since the op' he suffered from epilepsy (which was subsequently discovered to be related to the procedure) and needed phenobarbital for the rest of his life. As a further consequence he suffered from extreme obesity due to his general lethargy and disinterest in exercise. We stuck with him and through a LOT of perseverence and even more expenditure (!) he lived until he was 15, albeit with a limited quality of life, which I continually find hard not to blame on my decision to get him done.
Don't get me wrong, I know that this is a very rare case and it would be highly unlikely for it to happen again, but it still affects my decision making as I don't think I could forgive myself if my current dog suffered as a consequence of my choice, even though I know that the risks involved with _not_ having him done far outweigh the others!

Just wondering if anyone else on here has had any bad experiences with neutering? as a few people I've spoken to recently have their own nightmare tales to tell...


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> That's what I mean. If it's bad to neuter baby animals, why do sphynx breeders do it? Unless it is done to protect their high prices and keep the breed 'exclusive'?


I think you are probably right as they charge about £1600 + for a kitten on the active register
Did you know that two Canadian Sphynx(Dennis) have to be mated together to produce naked kittens but Don Sphynx(Harley) only have to have one naked parent to produce 50% naked kittens. I wonder if this is why they charge more money for Don`s


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

pippainnit said:


> I'm in a bit of a dilemma with whether to get my dog done or not too. He's 8 months at the moment and I'd always intended to get him neutered from around 6 months (which was what I was initially advised to do.) However since speaking to my vet he told me that if the dog was not showing any form of aggression or wayward behaviour (which admittedly he isn't _yet_) then he would be reluctant to go ahead with it, especially as he's a large breed.
> Personally, I want to do whatever's the right thing. Money is no object and as I have absolutely no intention to breed from him whatsoever then it's purely down to what is in his best interests. Another vet advised me to wait until he was fully cocking his leg (which he currently isn't) and another vet said to get him done asap! So I'm in a bit of a quandry really.
> The only reluctance I have comes from a very bad past experience with my previous dog who was neutered when he was around 6 months old. Unfortunately ever since the op' he suffered from epilepsy (which was subsequently discovered to be related to the procedure) and needed phenobarbital for the rest of his life. As a further consequence he suffered from extreme obesity due to his general lethargy and disinterest in exercise. We stuck with him and through a LOT of perseverence and even more expenditure (!) he lived until he was 15, albeit with a limited quality of life, which I continually find hard not to blame on my decision to get him done.
> Don't get me wrong, I know that this is a very rare case and it would be highly unlikely for it to happen again, but it still affects my decision making as I don't think I could forgive myself if my current dog suffered as a consequence of my choice, even though I know that the risks involved with _not_ having him done far outweigh the others!
> ...



It really does concern me when vets say don't bother neutering if the dog isnt showing certain behaviour, they are living in the dark ages!! 
And to be honest once those issues appear its very unlikely that neutering will help with them. And with certain forms of aggression I would actually advise you not to neuter (which is what your vet should be telling you)

If you read the quote I posted it may help you decide.

One of my dogs became incontinent after spaying. She is incontinent due to internal scaring from damage which was caused during the spay (which shouldnt happen) wether she would of been incontinent if a butcher hadnt of spayed her, I don't know.

But that would never put me off neutering another dog at a young age.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

pippainnit said:


> I'm in a bit of a dilemma with whether to get my dog done or not too. He's 8 months at the moment and I'd always intended to get him neutered from around 6 months (which was what I was initially advised to do.) However since speaking to my vet he told me that if the dog was not showing any form of aggression or wayward behaviour (which admittedly he isn't _yet_) then he would be reluctant to go ahead with it, especially as he's a large breed.
> Personally, I want to do whatever's the right thing. Money is no object and as I have absolutely no intention to breed from him whatsoever then it's purely down to what is in his best interests. Another vet advised me to wait until he was fully cocking his leg (which he currently isn't) and another vet said to get him done asap! So I'm in a bit of a quandry really.
> The only reluctance I have comes from a very bad past experience with my previous dog who was neutered when he was around 6 months old. Unfortunately ever since the op' he suffered from epilepsy (which was subsequently discovered to be related to the procedure) and needed phenobarbital for the rest of his life. As a further consequence he suffered from extreme obesity due to his general lethargy and disinterest in exercise. We stuck with him and through a LOT of perseverence and even more expenditure (!) he lived until he was 15, albeit with a limited quality of life, which I continually find hard not to blame on my decision to get him done.
> Don't get me wrong, I know that this is a very rare case and it would be highly unlikely for it to happen again, but it still affects my decision making as I don't think I could forgive myself if my current dog suffered as a consequence of my choice, even though I know that the risks involved with _not_ having him done far outweigh the others!
> ...


 Neutering makes dogs epileptic? Never heard that one before. I knew that some part of a male brain migrates to their testicles when they hit puberty but never realised that removing the balls would make them epileptic. Amazing.
You've sought advice, been given lots of different answers and are once again asking people's opinions. With all due respect, why? If several veterinary professionals have given their opinion and you still can't decide what to do, how will our opinions on here make your mind up for you?
I must have had a good 100+ animals neutered over the years and never once had a bad experience of any kind as a result of it. Not sure what use that info will be to you though and since no doubt everyone will tell a different tale with some good and some bad, I think you are going to be perpetually confused and unsure of what to do for the best. Why not simply think it out for yourself, and on the basis of the way your dog is behaving now, make a decision. If you decide not to, you can always change your mind in the future if he develops any testosterone related problems.
I don't think I'd ever ask random strangers on a forum whether I should neuter or not. The decision will always be mine to make.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I think you are probably right as they charge about £1600 + for a kitten on the active register
> Did you know that two Canadian Sphynx(Dennis) have to be mated together to produce naked kittens but Don Sphynx(Harley) only have to have one naked parent to produce 50% naked kittens. I wonder if this is why they charge more money for Don`s


 It seems to be about mioney especially as early neutering, i.e. baby kittens is not supposed to be beneficial.
It's the same in the poultry world with some rare breeds. The breeders will not only refuse to sell hatching eggs, but will cull any birds they don't want to show, in order that smaller numbers of birds keep prices high. I have the opposite view inasmuch as I want people to enjoy the birds that I enjoy so I'll happily sell hatching eggs and surplus stock. If someone wins with a bird hatched from my eggs, I still get the kudos after all.
If I was rich, I'd buy sphynxes and breed and sell entire babies just to share the nekkidness around a bit more and not only let rich people have the benefit of plonking kisses on warm nekkid bummy cheeks. ( I do love Dennis)


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> It seems to be about mioney especially as early neutering, i.e. baby kittens is not supposed to be beneficial.
> It's the same in the poultry world with some rare breeds. The breeders will not only refuse to sell hatching eggs, but will cull any birds they don't want to show, in order that smaller numbers of birds keep prices high. I have the opposite view inasmuch as I want people to enjoy the birds that I enjoy so I'll happily sell hatching eggs and surplus stock. If someone wins with a bird hatched from my eggs, I still get the kudos after all.
> If I was rich, I'd buy sphynxes and breed and sell entire babies just to share the nekkidness around a bit more and not only let rich people have the benefit of plonking kisses on warm nekkid bummy cheeks.* ( I do love Dennis)[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> Neutering makes dogs epileptic? Never heard that one before. I knew that some part of a male brain migrates to their testicles when they hit puberty but never realised that removing the balls would make them epileptic. Amazing.
> You've sought advice, been given lots of different answers and are once again asking people's opinions. With all due respect, why? If several veterinary professionals have given their opinion and you still can't decide what to do, how will our opinions on here make your mind up for you?
> I must have had a good 100+ animals neutered over the years and never once had a bad experience of any kind as a result of it. Not sure what use that info will be to you though and since no doubt everyone will tell a different tale with some good and some bad, I think you are going to be perpetually confused and unsure of what to do for the best. Why not simply think it out for yourself, and on the basis of the way your dog is behaving now, make a decision. If you decide not to, you can always change your mind in the future if he develops any testosterone related problems.
> I don't think I'd ever ask random strangers on a forum whether I should neuter or not. The decision will always be mine to make.


Sorry. I didn't realise that asking questions on a public forum was so annoying. It's clear from my initial post that I've been given conflicting information from different people (including different vets) and therefore of course I'm not going to be entirely sure as to what is the best thing to do. In regards to the epilepsy issue, then that too was what was told to me by a vet - so again, not being an expert in the field myself - what else was I led to believe?
The reason I ask people on here was that I genuinely understood this to be an open, non-judgmental forum with many people who've been in similar situations and who have owned various pets and therefore can be able to help. I clearly didn't realise that contributing to existing threads with my own personal experiences/situations would cause so much bother. Of course I'm not going to rush off and book my vet appointment or whatever based on what one anonymous person says, but I can't help but believe that I am making an informed choice based on asking many, largely helpful, people for advice on what I believe to be an important issue. And incidentally the point you raise about having had over 100 animals neutered is indeed relevant and helpful to me - thank you. 
I don't set out to create arguments or generate controversial debates.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

pippainnit said:


> Sorry. I didn't realise that asking questions on a public forum was so annoying. It's clear from my initial post that I've been given conflicting information from different people (including different vets) and therefore of course I'm not going to be entirely sure as to what is the best thing to do. In regards to the epilepsy issue, then that too was what was told to me by a vet - so again, not being an expert in the field myself - what else was I led to believe?
> The reason I ask people on here was that I genuinely understood this to be an open, non-judgmental forum with many people who've been in similar situations and who have owned various pets and therefore can be able to help. I clearly didn't realise that contributing to existing threads with my own personal experiences/situations would cause so much bother. Of course I'm not going to rush off and book my vet appointment or whatever based on what one anonymous person says, but I can't help but believe that I am making an informed choice based on asking many, largely helpful, people for advice on what I believe to be an important issue. And incidentally the point you raise about having had over 100 animals neutered is indeed relevant and helpful to me - thank you.
> I don't set out to create arguments or generate controversial debates.


 I wasn't annoyed, nor was I judgemental. My point was that you have already asked several people (vets) what do do, but are still dithering as to what to do for the best, so asking still more people, will hardly help you be decisive will it? I mentioned the number of animals that I have had neutered with no ill effects, in case it might help you.
Did you ask the vet to explain why or how neutering would cause epilepsy? I'm one of those people who want to know all the why's and wherefore's if someone tells me something. My old Dad told me never to accept anyone's say so, simply because they thought I should. I question everyone, especially my vet and doctor because :
a/I want to be able to make informed choices
b/ I want to gain knowledge.
Luckily, neither of them are offended by my asking them to quantify what they tell me. I think they find it nice that an owner wants to learn more about their pet, or that I want to accept responsibility for my own health.
You really should learn not to take offence where none was intended.:0)
Some of us are, I guess, more timid and dithery, and others (me for example) more blunt and forhtright. I guess the former and the latter find it difficult to understand each other.


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I wasn't annoyed, nor was I judgemental. My point was that you have already asked several people (vets) what do do, but are still dithering as to what to do for the best, so asking still more people, will hardly help you be decisive will it? I mentioned the number of animals that I have had neutered with no ill effects, in case it might help you.
> Did you ask the vet to explain why or how neutering would cause epilepsy? I'm one of those people who want to know all the why's and wherefore's if someone tells me something. My old Dad told me never to accept anyone's say so, simply because they thought I should. I question everyone, especially my vet and doctor because :
> a/I want to be able to make informed choices
> b/ I want to gain knowledge.
> ...


Thank you for explaining. As for the epilepsy issue: basically we had Barney neutered when he was 6 months old. We didn't ask any questions beforehand as we just felt it was the responsible, and right, thing to do. Approximately a week after his op' he had a massive seizure upon waking up in the morning. We called the emergency vet who came straight away and he was just coming round. He was taken in for blood tests that day whereby they confirmed epilepsy. Obviously we were very upset and fired questions at them and the only information we were initially provided with was that it might've been caused by a head injury. We could definitely rule out that as we knew that there'd been no chance of him obtaining an external injury like that. While of course it was coincidental in terms of the timing of the epilepsy emerging and his recent op, I'd never even considered that it could've been related to the neutering. Perhaps to the operation itself in terms of a potential side effect of the anaesthetic or something, but certainly not the actual issue of castration. Anyway, it was the vet that actually said that it was highly likely to have been caused by him being neutered and to be perfectly honest we did not question it further. As far as I was concerned (and this was nearly 16 years ago) I didn't feel a need to question it as we were primarily concerned with his outlook. However since then I have researched a fair bit into it (and asked other vets' opinions -- you can see that this is a recurring theme, I'm sure!) and many of them have disputed the link.

I maintain an open mind, but like you have never heard of epilepsy being related to neutering in any other circumstances. In fact, ironically (!), the only information I've thus far found on it has been largely advising people to have epileptic dogs neutered...

All I know is, from a personal perspective at least, that my dog's life was blighted from thereon and arguably the knowledge I had about neutering was pre-determined by a (in hindsight probably completely wrong) vet's opinion on it all.


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## Evie (Jan 28, 2008)

I think sometimes it's a good idea to get other peoples opinions. Vets are often more concerned with physical wellbeing and might not always consider behavioural or phsychological development.
I think every dog should be considered individually, taking into account the circumstances and character of the dog.
If I had neutered Rafiki as a baby, I'm convinced it would have been a disaster for him.


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## Kerriebaby (May 12, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> I think leaving a bitch unspayed at that age AND taking on a male dog as company is irresponsible. There's no need for it. Unless you're breeding.


 
wont be having another dog till one has gone to the kennel in the skies. as she is the eldest....

Plus,I havent spayed as her litter sister and her mother both died having the op...so id rather not risk her unless I absolutely must


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Well we sorted out our decision and phaffing around and got Willit neutered today. It all went absolutely fine and he's currently flooped by my side as I type.


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

Cass was done last Friday, he wasn't happy about it at all, but it was because of the lampshade he has to wear more than the lack of plums. :lol2:


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Kerriebaby said:


> wont be having another dog till one has gone to the kennel in the skies. as she is the eldest....
> 
> Plus,I havent spayed as her litter sister and her mother both died having the op...so id rather not risk her unless I absolutely must


 
Have you considered finding a new vet??:gasp: Id be worried if both dogs died during the same routine op!


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

*H* said:


> Cass was done last Friday, he wasn't happy about it at all, but it was because of the lampshade he has to wear more than the lack of plums. :lol2:


 :lol2: has he tried eating or picking up toys yet? It was hilarious watching mine try. . .


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Mine hasn't been given a cone, which surprised me, but in fairness to him as of yet he hasn't even licked down there let alone tried to attack the stitches. I don't know what he'll be like when the anaesthetic fully wears off though!


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

girlsnotgray said:


> :lol2: has he tried eating or picking up toys yet? It was hilarious watching mine try. . .


He's got the hang of it now and does everything with it on, but he wouldn't even move an inch for the first 5/6 hours!! I had to _carry_ him up and down the stairs and PLACE him in the garden for a wee because he point blank refused to do anything while he had the buster on. He was like that stuffed dog off Scrubs:lol2: A meal of cooked chicken soon sorted his sulking out tho


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

pippainnit said:


> Mine hasn't been given a cone, which surprised me, but in fairness to him as of yet he hasn't even licked down there let alone tried to attack the stitches. I don't know what he'll be like when the anaesthetic fully wears off though!


 

never had a problem with my huskies either and bothering with stitches 

i think its a husky thing they dont seem to be bothered in the slightest :lol2:

so non of mine needed the cones either


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## corny girl (Aug 30, 2009)

girlsnotgray said:


> Have you considered finding a new vet??:gasp: Id be worried if both dogs died during the same routine op!



If there is a genetic problem then it wouldn't matter which vet you used, there could still be a risk. I personally wouldn't risk it if the mother & sister died whilst under the Anaesthetic :gasp:. Some Dogs don't tolerate Anaesthetic very well & this could be hereditory. There is always a risk whenever a General Anaesthetic is used, it is up to the individual owner whether they wish to take that risk & in this case i don't think i would.


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

pippainnit said:


> Mine hasn't been given a cone, which surprised me, but in fairness to him as of yet he hasn't even licked down there let alone tried to attack the stitches. I don't know what he'll be like when the anaesthetic fully wears off though!


I took one home with me 'just Incase' not really intending on using it, but I couldn't keep him from washing the area and I was so scared he was going to either pull out the stitches or get it infected, so I had to put it on. He does now when I take it off for him to go out, he tries to have a sneaky lick, but mind you he spent most of his time washing down there before the op so I'm not surprised 

I think every dog is different, if you can get on without the cone it is better as it really hinders them and I think they are verging on cruelty :lol2:


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

corny girl said:


> If there is a genetic problem then it wouldn't matter which vet you used, there could still be a risk. I personally wouldn't risk it if the mother & sister died whilst under the Anaesthetic :gasp:. Some Dogs don't tolerate Anaesthetic very well & this could be hereditory. There is always a risk whenever a General Anaesthetic is used, it is up to the individual owner whether they wish to take that risk & in this case i don't think i would.


 
Would a local make any diffrence?


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

corny girl said:


> If there is a genetic problem then it wouldn't matter which vet you used, there could still be a risk. I personally wouldn't risk it if the mother & sister died whilst under the Anaesthetic :gasp:. Some Dogs don't tolerate Anaesthetic very well & this could be hereditory. There is always a risk whenever a General Anaesthetic is used, it is up to the individual owner whether they wish to take that risk & in this case i don't think i would.


What genetic disease are you suggesting caused this? I've never heard of one that can't be worked around by use of correct anaesthetic. The risk of mammary cancer is a much bigger one, over 1 in 4 bitches will develop it if not spayed and spayed early enough.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

I had four dogs castrated yesterday. None came home with a cone. None worried the stitches, all were playing out in the goat yard this morning like nutters, chasing each other etc and not even noticing that anything was amiss.I have only once made a dog wera a cone and when I saw how much suffering the damn thing caused, never again:bash:


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## TEENY (Jan 4, 2008)

fenwoman said:


> I had four dogs castrated yesterday. None came home with a cone. None worried the stitches, all were playing out in the goat yard this morning like nutters, chasing each other etc and not even noticing that anything was amiss.I have only once made a dog wera a cone and when I saw how much suffering the damn thing caused, never again:bash:


Wow i am glad they recover that fast 
I won't be making poor Roscoe wear a cone after unless it is 100% needed


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## KathyM (Jan 17, 2009)

Sidney was the opposite and had to wear a cone for 2.5 weeks because he wouldn't leave his stitches or his legs alone (where they'd been shaved).


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My Rottie boy kept licking where he was shaved and made it sore but instead of a buster collar the vets gave me a soothing spray which stopped the irritation which meant he stopped licking


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## kazzy (Aug 17, 2009)

*i had my 2 bitches and my dog all staffies nuetered at 6 months and havent had any problems with them, none of them bothered with there stitches so didnt need cones thank god lol and my dog is still mental as he was before he was done*


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> I had four dogs castrated yesterday. None came home with a cone. None worried the stitches, all were playing out in the goat yard this morning like nutters, chasing each other etc and not even noticing that anything was amiss.I have only once made a dog wera a cone and when I saw how much suffering the damn thing caused, never again:bash:


Yeah mine's seemingly not bothered by the stitches at all now. The only thing is - the vet said not to walk him for more than five minutes on the lead at a time for ten days. That seemed pretty extreme to me, especially as he's running round like a fool now. Will give them a ring later to check on that I think.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

pippainnit said:


> Yeah mine's seemingly not bothered by the stitches at all now. The only thing is - the vet said not to walk him for more than five minutes on the lead at a time for ten days. That seemed pretty extreme to me, especially as he's running round like a fool now. Will give them a ring later to check on that I think.


 I think the vets feel they need to cover their arses (I hate the American spelling of the word arse. I mean a backside, not a donkey) against a lawsuit if anything went wrong.
In all my decades keeping dogs and cats and having them neutered, and bearing in mind that I have country dogs, used to dashing about, not one, ever, has had a problem with a wound either opening, or stitches breaking or it getting infected etc and the numbers I'm referring to must be at least a few hundred animals (some mine, some rescues). Sure they lick, like I suck a finger with a cut. Spit is soothing and helps clean the wound. But vets seem to want to have pet owners with zero confidence in themselves and terrified that their pet does something natural and normal. If a newly neutered cat or dog, dashes about, and does so too vigourously, and the wound starts to hurt, they stop dashing about. That's why nature invented pain. It's to tell you that there is a problem and you should stop doing whatever is causing the pain.:lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I think the vets feel they need to cover their arses (I hate the American spelling of the word arse. I mean a backside, not a donkey) against a lawsuit if anything went wrong.
> In all my decades keeping dogs and cats and having them neutered, and bearing in mind that I have country dogs, used to dashing about, not one, ever, has had a problem with a wound either opening, or stitches breaking or it getting infected etc and the numbers I'm referring to must be at least a few hundred animals (some mine, some rescues). Sure they lick, like I suck a finger with a cut. Spit is soothing and helps clean the wound. But vets seem to want to have pet owners with zero confidence in themselves and terrified that their pet does something natural and normal. If a newly neutered cat or dog, dashes about, and does so too vigourously, and the wound starts to hurt, they stop dashing about. That's why nature invented pain. It's to tell you that there is a problem and you should stop doing whatever is causing the pain.:lol2:


Ive had cats that have been spayed or castrated climbing trees the very next day and its never done them any harm either


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

Exactly. Cheers both. I think it's all well and good them trying to cover themselves but they aren't the ones having to contend with an eight month old dog who desperately wants to go over the fields! Provided he doesn't dive bum first into a thorn bush I think he'll be alright


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## robstaine (May 7, 2009)

you can do it as early as 3 months x


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