# Corn morphs.. AGAIN lol



## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

OK im confused.. ( and rubbish at morphs)

what would u perhaps get if u crossed the follwing

creamsicle x amelanistic

creamsicle x anery A

anery A x amelanistic

thanks


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

*anery A x amelanistic
*
100% normal het anery, het amel

I'm not that up on the creamsicle morph because they are a hybrid *(and as a result you should label any offspring you produce from a creamsicle as a hybrid) *but this is what I think you'd get:
*
Creamsicle x amel
*
50% amel

50% normal het amel

*Creamsicle x anery*

100% normal het amel, het anery


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

intravenous said:


> *anery A x amelanistic*
> 
> 100% normal het anery, het amel
> 
> ...


Almost right.

Creamsicle X Amel = 100% Creamsicle (amel Emoryi cross) - because a Creamsicle is already homozygous amel and can't pass on anything else.

Creamsicle X Anery = 100% Rootbeer (AKA "Copper" - "not amelanistic Emoryi cross") het snow.


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Almost right.
> 
> Creamsicle X Amel = 100% Creamsicle (amel Emoryi cross) - because a Creamsicle is already homozygous amel and can't pass on anything else.
> 
> Creamsicle X Anery = 100% Rootbeer (AKA "Copper" - "not amelanistic Emoryi cross") het snow.


Hybrids aren't really my thing at all so I wasn't 100% sure what was in a creamsicle.

Is a creamsicle a first generation hybrid cross (between an amel corn and an emoryi)? There isn't that much accurate information out there about them.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> Almost right.
> 
> Creamsicle X Amel = 100% Creamsicle (amel Emoryi cross) - because a Creamsicle is already homozygous amel and can't pass on anything else.
> 
> Creamsicle X Anery = 100% Rootbeer (AKA "Copper" - "not amelanistic Emoryi cross") het snow.


 
interesting but stil confused... maybe one day I wil understand it,...

any ideas on the best way to learn ... books or websites etc


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Sparkle: There's a few good books out there - like Charles "Serpwidgets" Pritzel's Corn Snake Morph Guide. It doesn't help that a Creamsicle is not 100% corn - it's not *just* a morph of corn snake, it's a _hybrid _of two fairly closely related snake species.



intravenous said:


> Hybrids aren't really my thing at all so I wasn't 100% sure what was in a creamsicle.
> 
> Is a creamsicle a first generation hybrid cross (between an amel corn and an emoryi)? There isn't that much accurate information out there about them.


A creamsicle is any visual _amelanistic_ animal with KNOWN Great Plains Rat (P. emoryi) and Corn Snake (P. guttattus) heritage - whether it's F1 or F2000. 

Put it this way: 

If I cross an Amelanistic corn and a normal Emoryi the F1 will be all "Rootbeer" - they'll look normal, they'll have Emoryi heritage, but they're het for the Amelanistic gene.

If I cross one of those F1 offspring to an Amelanistic corn, you'll get half Rootbeer het Creamsicle (het amel) and half Creamsicle. At that point you've got an amelanistic F2 that's about 75% corn - but because it has known Emoryi heritage, it's still a Creamsicle and not an Amel Cornsnake.

If I cross one of those F2 75% corn Creamsicles to a Butter corn (caramel + amel) then I get F3 Creamsicle het Buttercreams that are about 83% corn. They're still Creamsicles, though, because they have known Emoryi heritage.

If I cross one of those F3 83% Corn Creamsicle het Buttercreams to a Snow corn (Anery + amel) then I'll get F4 Creamsicle het Icicle offspring that are about 89% cornsnake. However... they're still Creamsicles.

And so on. It doesn't matter what the percentage of corn or Emoryi is in the cross, if it has any known emoryi heritage it should be labeled as a cross. Far as I'm concerned, if the snake looks 100% Amel corn, is red instead of yellow/orange and for all intents and purposes might as well be a corn, but is labeled as a Creamsicle... it should be treated as a Creamsicle. 

And just for fun:

A visual normal Corn/Emoryi is called a Rootbeer or a Copper 
A visual amel Corn/Emoryi is called a Creamsicle
A visual hypo corn/Emoryi is called a Cinnamon
A visual anery corn/Emoryi is called a Fudgesicle or an "Anery Rootbeer"
A visual snow corn/emoryi is called an Icicle or a "Snow Rootbeer"
A visual butter corn/emoryi is called a Buttercream


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## intravenous (Dec 20, 2006)

> And so on. It doesn't matter what the percentage of corn or Emoryi is in the cross, if it has any known emoryi heritage it should be labeled as a cross. Far as I'm concerned, if the snake looks 100% Amel corn, is red instead of yellow/orange and for all intents and purposes might as well be a corn, but is labeled as a Creamsicle... it should be treated as a Creamsicle.
> 
> And just for fun:
> 
> ...


Ah, ok :smile:. I thought that those F1 snakes that are only het amel were creamsicles. So thats a rootbeer then and its only a creamsicle when its bred back to an amel?

I also agree that once a hybrid has been formed all its offspring should be labelled as hybrids even though they might look like regular corns...otherwise you'd have people mixing species without realising what they'd done.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

intravenous said:


> Ah, ok :smile:. I thought that those F1 snakes that are only het amel were creamsicles. So thats a rootbeer then and its only a creamsicle when its bred back to an amel?


Or bred to its siblings to produce visually amelanistic offspring. As long as it's visually amelanistic with Emoryi heritage, it's a Creamsicle. 

Some of the Rootbeers are pretty nice looking, mind you  And I'm rather partial to Cinnamons.



> I also agree that once a hybrid has been formed all its offspring should be labelled as hybrids even though they might look like regular corns...otherwise you'd have people mixing species without realising what they'd done.


Absolutely. Though as far as it goes, there's some evidence that Emoryi and corns interbreed in certain areas of their range - at least they don't have the same mate-eating tendencies as "Jungle Corns"... which, in my opinion, should be called "Jungle Kings" instead so that people know that it's a king snake cross and might well eat other snakes it's put in with.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

wow all this is fascinating.. I think i may just get that book... thanks x


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## Angi (Nov 12, 2005)

with the Anery x amel, would it not also depend on what hets they carried. I thought you could possibly end up with amels if the anery was het for amel, or anerys if the amel was het for anery, or even snows? Or even other combinations depending on hets.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Angi said:


> with the Anery x amel, would it not also depend on what hets they carried. I thought you could possibly end up with amels if the anery was het for amel, or anerys if the amel was het for anery, or even snows? Or even other combinations depending on hets.


Yes, it would depend on whether the animals were het. But the only guaranteed outcome from Anery (no known hets) to Amel (no known hets) is "normal het snow".

Any snow, amel or anery offspring prove that the parents WERE het for something


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