# Rats or ex breeder mice, plus feed size for Royal Python



## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Just looking for frozen food for my Royal and noticed 40g plus ex breeder mice. Are these actually any good nutritionally? 
Multimanmates seem impossible to get at the moment and several places seem to be out of 50g rats. 
Also, is feeding 2 smaller prey as good as feeding 1 large one?
Fluffy refused a 50g rat, though was showing all normal signs he was ready for food. For a few weeks prior to trying to go up a size, he'd happily take 2 30-40g ones. 

He currently weighs 689g, I've tried not to speed up growth and he's now 22 months old. Fed weekly, but not during shed mode. Had a fair bit of feed refusal in first few months of having him, but not over the past year. I feel he should be able to take 50 - 70g rats, but am I wrong? 

Before anyone asks, yes his temperatures and set up are fine. I did my research and checked here as well and actively follow current posts 🙂


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## Malum Argenteum (5 mo ago)

In my experience with various species (and one royal python) rats seem to yield better results overall -- the snakes look better in subtle ways (ways that could well be imagined, to be sure). What could cause that, I'm not sure -- comparing data on adult mice to similarly sized rats, fat content is similar, overall protein content is the same, calcium is higher in the mouse, Vitamin A is much higher in the mouse (this is the only outstanding measurement, and might be a factor, but Maders has no reference to hypervitaminosis in snakes at all which strongly suggests it really doesn't occur). Many keepers report a big improvement in growth rate when switching from mice to rats (not to imply that this is or should be your goal).

My adult male royal was my retired mouse breeder eater for six or eight years, and I saw no ill effects. For the last handful of years I've had various sizes of rats on hand, and I work those in as often as I am able (I have more snakes that eat retired breeders now). That male royal eats from one to four mice at a meal, and I have other snakes that I feed up to six prey items at a meal (their demand for undersized/hairless prey, not my choice in the least). While it is possible to cause regurge by feeding multiple prey items (I've done it), it isn't true that feeding a sensible number and size of prey would do so. Many snake species are nest raiders in the wild (apparently _P. regius_ is too, at least when younger), and so are no strangers to feeding on multiple small prey.

I think a snake is "ready" for the next size up prey when the snake decides it is -- following the animal's cues are to be preferred over following the 'one size fits all' chart someone made.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Elly, I have a 4' male that is a really fussy feeder, and he only takes large / ex large mice. I feed him two every 14 days, where as all the other Royals (including a yearling male) have large weaner / small rats of around 70g (frozen) every 14 days. There is no difference in muscle tone, strength, etc to any of the other snakes fed on rats. On some occasions after the first mouse he shows no interest in the second regardless how long I leave it between offering the two.

Interestingly the yearling that took a 70g weaner rat last feed, would repeatedly defensive strike the adult mouse (around 40g) a good half dozen times before taking it. Last week was the first time we offered him a weaner rat and whilst being larger, struck it and coiled it without hesitation.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback.
I think I'll pop to a local pet shop and see what they have, as one of few places that will let you buy singles. 
My corn will eat anything, but obviously isn't designed for the bigger prey and I don't want a bag full of 50g+ that I can't use.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Elly66 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> I think I'll pop to a local pet shop and see what they have, as one of few places that will let you buy singles.
> My corn will eat anything, but obviously isn't designed for the bigger prey and I don't want a bag full of 50g+ that I can't use.


My 4' Bairds took a weaner rat a few weeks back... you'll be surprised what they can manage !


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Malc said:


> My 4' Bairds took a weaner rat a few weeks back... you'll be surprised what they can manage !


Oh, I think the corn would eat the bigger prey but the chunk doesn't need it 😂


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