# sloths as pets



## shaunbob (Sep 9, 2011)

i REALLY want a sloth in future years, but do people keep them in the UK. i had a look at the DWA list, they dont seem to be listed.


so, i was wondering if ANYONE does keep them, what are they like as pets? i have read up, some make excellent pets but others say they can be a real nightmare.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

Do a search on here, should find an answer as there was a thread fairly recently.
Suffice to say even if they were readily available (and I believe they shouldnt be, my own opinion) they would cost a lotta dollar. 
Good luck with your search.....

Dave.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

shaunbob said:


> i REALLY want a sloth in future years, but do people keep them in the UK. i had a look at the DWA list, they dont seem to be listed.
> 
> 
> so, i was wondering if ANYONE does keep them, what are they like as pets? i have read up, some make excellent pets but others say they can be a real nightmare.
> ...


they may not be DWA, but are probably CITES restricted. & i wouldn't have thought they'd do an awful lot, apart from hang upside down, asleep for much of the time.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

One of those animals that is best left in the rainforest IMO.

Also, the fact that you say you want *"a"* sloth when referring to an endangered species speaks volumes to me. If you were serious about keeping a species like that, you would have a responsibility to lay out a ton of cash and get a breeding programme going. Otherwise it's one very lonely sloth, and another nail in the coffin of a threatened species!:bash:


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

mrcriss said:


> One of those animals that is best left in the rainforest IMO.
> 
> Also, the fact that you say you want *"a"* sloth when referring to an endangered species speaks volumes to me. If you were serious about keeping a species like that, you would have a responsibility to lay out a ton of cash and get a breeding programme going. Otherwise it's one very lonely sloth, and another nail in the coffin of a threatened species!:bash:


yup, so many on these forums are `needing` this or needing that with little concern for the species etc. but they will give it cuddles and feed it well, bla bla. I hate being holier than thou but have to voice my opinions from time to time.

Besides, anyone serious enough to be properly interested in an animal like this wouldn`t be looking on here, i certainly wouldn`t. Mind you, dunno where i would look, lol.
Thing is some species seem, only seem, to be suited to captivity, will breed etc. Very few, in reality, skunks, coatis, coonies even **** dogs, appear to get on fine in captivity but it will be a while before they are at domestic levels, if you follow.....or am I talking twaddle??!!

See ya all!

Dave.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

I am getting a baby Aye Aye next week, BTW. Got all the toys it needs to snuggle with and it`s 4x2x2 viv is all ready for it..........think they like cat food because dog food is too fatty. With a few nuts.

Dave.


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

sam gamgee said:


> I am getting a baby Aye Aye next week, BTW. Got all the toys it needs to snuggle with and it`s 4x2x2 viv is all ready for it..........think they like cat food because dog food is too fatty. With a few nuts.
> 
> Dave.


Thats an easy one eat lots of bugs in the wild high in protein cat food is higher in protein than dog food... so theyll naturally gravitate towards a higher protein source :2thumb: 

logical really... 

good luck with it buddy


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

sam gamgee said:


> yup, so many on these forums are `needing` this or needing that with little concern for the species etc. but they will give it cuddles and feed it well, bla bla. I hate being holier than thou but have to voice my opinions from time to time.
> 
> Besides, anyone serious enough to be properly interested in an animal like this wouldn`t be looking on here, i certainly wouldn`t. Mind you, dunno where i would look, lol.
> Thing is some species seem, only seem, to be suited to captivity, will breed etc. Very few, in reality, skunks, coatis, coonies even **** dogs, appear to get on fine in captivity but it will be a while before they are at domestic levels, if you follow.....or am I talking twaddle??!!
> ...


Makes sense to me


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

sam gamgee said:


> I am getting a baby Aye Aye next week, BTW. Got all the toys it needs to snuggle with and it`s 4x2x2 viv is all ready for it..........think they like cat food because dog food is too fatty. With a few nuts.
> 
> Dave.


Get me one..


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

This thread kinda makes it all clear abour breaders and keepers.
And those that want pets....
Some things are better for dreaming than ever having a hope of it being real.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> One of those animals that is best left in the rainforest IMO.
> 
> Also, the fact that you say you want *"a"* sloth when referring to an endangered species speaks volumes to me. If you were serious about keeping a species like that, you would have a responsibility to lay out a ton of cash and get a breeding programme going. Otherwise it's one very lonely sloth, and another nail in the coffin of a threatened species!:bash:


Helpful response. For someone so full of themselves you're horribly uninformed. The sloth species represented in captivity are not endangered. Of the (currently) recognised 6 species, 4 are "least concern" and are not listed on cites.
As someone who apparently houses a coati in a parrot cage perhaps you should have the "responsibilty" to house it appropriately?


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

Turtl said:


> Helpful response. For someone so full of themselves you're horribly uninformed. The sloth species represented in captivity are not endangered. Of the (currently) recognised 6 species, 4 are "least concern" and are not listed on cites.
> As someone who apparently houses a coati in a parrot cage perhaps you should have the "responsibilty" to house it appropriately?


oooo fight fight, newbie here getting wired.. come on criss:lol2:

OP Dont get a sloth, PLZ.. bless them its like keeping A monkey:lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> Helpful response. For someone so full of themselves you're horribly uninformed. The sloth species represented in captivity are not endangered. Of the (currently) recognised 6 species, 4 are "least concern" and are not listed on cites.
> As someone who apparently houses a coati in a parrot cage perhaps you should have the "responsibilty" to house it appropriately?


I don't know where you think you're getting personal information about me, but I can advise you not to be so gullible as to believe everything you hear. For the record, my coati has his own room, and is happily bouncing around it as I type. He also has an enclosure outdoors for any rare sunny Manchester days. That is the last I shall say on that subject.:bash:

Your petty squabbles aside, lets keep this back to the question in hand shall we? I am fully aware of the status of sloths in the wild. 2 types _are _critically endangered, and yes the others are deemed to be of "least concern". I however do not share the same view. Just because they are numerous enough to not raise serious panic, they hail from forests that are being rapidly depleted. All animals that don't have strong populations in other areas require close attention.

Many species have suffered throughout the past few hundred years because of the human desire to always keep the most exotic of animals......from the number of "must have" threads on this forum, and the kind of comments on sloth youtube vids, I can easily see sloths becoming the new slow loris on the hit lists of obsessive pet collectors. I think it wise to discourage the intention before it takes hold and has serious consequences, don't you?


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

The two critically endangered "types" as you put it are still not recognised as full species by some authorities (and would realisticallly never become available to a private breeder). The other four species have vast ranges and most certainly would not be susceptible to the collection pressures which saw the decline of many species. I'm genuinely happy that all the research you have done in suburban Manchester qualifies you to have an independent view to the members of IUCN and cites.

I personally have no interest in sloths, especially owning one, but I see little harm in having one. Indeed I would argue they'd make more suitable "pets" than a coati as they're not gregarious and far less active/destructive.

If you want to hide the fact you keep a coati in a parrot cage you should be cautious what you upload to youtube


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> The two critically endangered "types" as you put it are still not recognised as full species by some authorities (and would realisticallly never become available to a private breeder). The other four species have vast ranges and most certainly would not be susceptible to the collection pressures which saw the decline of many species. I'm genuinely happy that all the research you have done in suburban Manchester qualifies you to have an independent view to the members of IUCN and cites.
> 
> I personally have no interest in sloths, especially owning one, but I see little harm in having one. Indeed I would argue they'd make more suitable "pets" than a coati as they're not gregarious and far less active/destructive.
> 
> If you want to hide the fact you keep a coati in a parrot cage you should be cautious what you upload to youtube


Fool! The cage on YouTube is an open one that contains Kenny's sleeping nest and food bowls. Nothing like jumping to conclusions, is there?


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Fool! The cage on YouTube is an open one that contains Kenny's sleeping nest and food bowls. Nothing like jumping to conclusions, is there?


And the penny drops? You jumped to all sorts of conclusions in your first post.

op, if you're serious about a sloth I will put you I'm touch with someone who can help.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Article 10 over here in scotland needs aplied for.
Permission to keep granted.
Dont know how it works elsewhere.
I had to for all mine..
Dont think it would be granted for A SLOATH.
They want to know housing..heating..diet..

Why have a personal attack on someones opinion.

You seem to get it from all sides cris.
We had our own debate.
And put it too bed..
Opinions differ...

Dont undrrstand the attack about your animals welfare.
All else asside
.
Ive read allot of your posts.
You explain your ways and always come across that the animals come first.

Maybe a direction to the other sloath posts..
Same shix diff day..


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Turtl said:


> And the penny drops? You jumped to all sorts of conclusions in your first post.
> 
> op, if you're serious about a sloth I will put you I'm touch with someone who can help.


Willy Wonka made dreams come true.?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> And the penny drops? You jumped to all sorts of conclusions in your first post.
> 
> op, if you're serious about a sloth I will put you I'm touch with someone who can help.


Welcome to RFUK......I'm sure a lovely nice person like you is going to prove very popular.

I pity the poor sloth that you take from its tree in the same way you seem to be planning a shipment of animals from Indonesia. It seems that everything is fair game to you!



PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Article 10 over here in scotland needs aplied for.
> Permission to keep granted.
> Dont know how it works elsewhere.
> I had to for all mine..
> ...


Hahaha......I've got pretty thick skin (metaphorically speaking of course). It takes a lot more than a numpty like this one to rattle me 

Mr. Turtl is kinda new here and probably just flexing his noobie muscles, or he set up a new anonymous profile to enquire about his planned "shipment" of no doubt wild and endangered animals, and is using said profile to have a good old trolling sesh. Either way, I'm not really bothered.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> Welcome to RFUK......I'm sure a lovely nice person like you is going to prove very popular.
> 
> I pity the poor sloth that you take from its tree in the same way you seem to be planning a shipment of animals from Indonesia. It seems that everything is fair game to you!
> 
> ...


Could be Chris...
Why do it though...
Must be something in it for him..lol

I wouldnt help anyone i didnt fully know..
And know pretty well...

Good ones are easy worked out.
My dreams orang..
Has been all my life...
Maybe he could help make my dream come true..

Good glass of wine and switch off.
You that is..i dont drink at all...

Cant afford hangovrrs here...
Too many mouths to feed..lol


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm quite interested in xenarthra and so I can tell you what I know about the captive care of sloths:

They are quite difficult to feed in captivity as in the wildthey are folivorous, and have very delicate intestinal flora. 
So, perhaps obviously, they respond poorly to sugar in diets and need browse, In UK zoos (Ive spoken to Twycross,Colchester, ZSL London and Paignton so by no means comprehensive) from what I have gathered they are fed browse,some feed folivorous monkey pellets and small amounts of commercial veg. 

(Commercial veg fed at Twycross:
Spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, sweetcorn/baby corn, apples, carrot, parsnip, courgette, marrow, aubergine, cucumber and pear (grapes and primate diet as an occasional garnish)

Example of diet from Colchester: 


Two Toed Sloth’s (amount for 2 animals) 
Apple
150g
Other fruit (vary daily)
150g
Carrot
150g
Courgette
150g
Aubergine
100g
Other root veg (turnip, parsnip etc)
150g
Browse (willow, lime etc)
Ad-lib
Extras
Monday
Boiled egg
75g
Tuesday
-

Wednesday
Boiled egg
75g
Thursday
--

Friday


Saturday
Cheese
30g
Sunday





They need to be kept reasonably heated, they have quite poor thermoregulation for a mammal. The Zoos I have spoken to aim to all keep their sloths at 25-28 degrees Celcius and treat 17 degrees as the minimum temp. 
The Zoos I spoke to all keep their animals at a humidity >50%

Personally I think they would make a terrible 'pet', and you would be looking at ~£6,000 for one and they feel like a coconut fiber doormat. 
It would be an awesome idea for a breeding programme.... I can dream can't I ?:lol2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Could be Chris...
> Why do it though...
> Must be something in it for him..lol
> 
> ...


My dream is to win the lottery. Anyone......ANYONE that can help make my dream come true would get my undying gratitude! 

Just thought I'd put that out there 

(now you've made me want wine!)


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> My dream is to win the lottery. Anyone......ANYONE that can help make my dream come true would get my undying gratitude!


My dream is to be able to grow a credible moustache. Then I could pretend I was a short fat Tom Selleck.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

1930sam said:


> Personally I think they would make a terrible 'pet', and you would be looking at ~£6,000 for one and they feel like a coconut fiber doormat.
> It would be an awesome idea for a breeding programme.... I can dream can't I ?:lol2:


It would be amazing to see the breeding behaviour....especially when the female 3-toeds scream!


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

Firstly there are sloths reproducing with increasing success in captivity so who ever said it would need to be wild caught?

I see you did some snooping. Thats fine. Yes I am after a species which people are trying to breed in captivity but it's proving very difficult. I like a challenge and I have been successful with other species.

I would like to know how you are so shallow-minded to believe that all animals are endangered? Believe it or not there are organisations who do actually monitor the status of species in order to prevent exploitation. You're not to know this but i would never jeopardise a species survival by acquiring something illegally. You're also incredibly naive to think that all imports are wild caught. Secondly there is no harm in acquiring wild animals every species has to start somewhere.

Personally I would never keep a coati in a room/parrot cage or what ever it is you keep it in.


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> It would be amazing to see the breeding behaviour....especially when the female 3-toeds scream!


They (Xenarthra) are a fantasticaly intriguing Magnorder, It would have been amazing to see the true giants of the order like Megalonyx and Megatherium.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> Firstly there are sloths reproducing with increasing success in captivity so who ever said it would need to be wild caught?
> 
> I see you did some snooping. Thats fine. Yes I am after a species which people are trying to breed in captivity but it's proving very difficult. I like a challenge and I have been successful with other species.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm.......I don't believe I ever said that I think all animals are endangered.:hmm::lol2:


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Turtl said:


> would never jeopardise a species survival by acquiring something illegally.


Firstly, there is no need to be so rude to someone because they have a divergent opinion to your own. 

Secondly, and more seriously if you think acquiring an animal legally means no risk to the species survival you are being a little naive.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

*Gadeebledawgs all!*



5plusmany said:


> Get me one..


Will get all on here one.....naturally! Will supply a handwritten caresheet, so no need to study further, oh and will supply a set up with a heat mat, thinking of an exo 30x30x30...........do you think that will be gig enough to house its ears? Will be cuddly tame and will have its teeth n claws removed so no nasties to affect **** sapiens........

Just kidding.......yes, I know you realsise this but thread needs lightening dunnit?



Byesey bue!

Dave.


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## sn8ks4life (Jul 27, 2011)

i think turtl is just being rude and obnoxious, to come here and not know any of you just to slate you all for what??
for all we know he catches WC animals and keeps them in a tiny crappy cage, how do we know, so plz mr turtl dont be such an arse to such nice people and think you all high and mighty.. IT DONT WORK HERE..

now then, who wants a hippo, i got one going spare, not WC:whistling2:


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

sn8ks4life said:


> i think turtl is just being rude and obnoxious, to come here and not know any of you just to slate you all for what??
> for all we know he catches WC animals and keeps them in a tiny crappy cage, how do we know, so plz mr turtl dont be such an arse to such nice people and think you all high and mighty.. IT DONT WORK HERE..
> 
> now then, who wants a hippo, i got one going spare, not WC:whistling2:


No. I don't understand your resentment of wc animals, as long ad they're ethically and humanely sourced there is no problem. For the record none of the tamarins, tortoises or other animals I breed are of wild caught origins but all were sourced from outside of Europe (with the exception of s. Imperator).

I was simply pointing out what an uneducated and unhelpful post "criss" had made. He doesn't approve of people keeping sloths, good for him, I don't know anyone in the industry who would approve keeping a male coati as a housepet (a sloth would actually be more suitable).


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Turtl said:


> No. I don't understand your resentment of wc animals, as long ad they're ethically and humanely sourced there is no problem.


Its not really resentment nor ranklement its a responsible attitude, and one that belies a conservation minded person. 
Ethics are by their nature subjective, what was done in terms of collecting animals in the 70s was ethical at the time not so now. Who decides what is ethical? I would contend and I'm sure others would too that it is unethical for private keepers to snatch animals out of the rainforests to keep as pets.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

1930sam said:


> Its not really resentment nor ranklement its a responsible attitude, and one that belies a conservation minded person.
> Ethics are by their nature subjective, what was done in terms of collecting animals in the 70s was ethical at the time not so now. Who decides what is ethical? I would contend and I'm sure others would too that it is unethical for private keepers to snatch animals out of the rainforests to keep as pets.


There are certainly people who would think that way but there is a general consensus as to how to treat animals humanely. However it seems hypocritical to be happy to keep an animal in captivity with the understanding that all of needs can be provided for but to not accept a wild caught animal should also thrive under those conditions (particularly with low functioning groups).
As I said as long as the animal is collected in a fashion where it is unharmed, is sustainable and
the animal concerned is capable of thriving in captivity (this is still not true for some species like the indri) then I see no moral high ground.
"criss" made all sorts of assumptions and because he inexplicably doesn't believe a sloth (a solitary creature) should be housed alone (when he appears quite content to house a notoriously boisterous, gregarious and active animal in a room in a house) is both uniformed and deplorable.

I would like to add that many "conservationally minded people" see both hunting for sport and collection for pet trade as a means of conservation. These provide incomes for local people and local government bodies which inturn incetivise protection of the environments utilised in these activites


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Turtl said:


> No. I don't understand your resentment of wc animals, as long ad they're ethically and humanely sourced there is no problem. For the record none of the tamarins, tortoises or other animals I breed are of wild caught origins but all were sourced from outside of Europe (with the exception of s. Imperator).
> 
> I was simply pointing out what an uneducated and unhelpful post "criss" had made. He doesn't approve of people keeping sloths, good for him, I don't know anyone in the industry who would approve keeping a male coati as a housepet (a sloth would actually be more suitable).


I personaly think each to there own.
Trying to help an unknown source such an animal is wrong.
Why would you want to.

There are plenty of good reputable breaders.
So why go for wc.

Disagree that a sloath should be concidered as a pet.


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Mate get over criss, I don't know him, the points Im making are my own, my argument is my own. 
Someone has a coati isn't a cracking argument for WC is ok. 

Regardless of what other people do, how other people keep animals, my point still stands.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> No. I don't understand your resentment of wc animals, as long ad they're ethically and humanely sourced there is no problem. For the record none of the tamarins, tortoises or other animals I breed are of wild caught origins but all were sourced from outside of Europe (with the exception of s. Imperator).
> 
> I was simply pointing out what an uneducated and unhelpful post "criss" had made. He doesn't approve of people keeping sloths, good for him, I don't know anyone in the industry who would approve keeping a male coati as a housepet (a sloth would actually be more suitable).


NOT that it's any of your business, nor do I really feel the need to justify my actions, but as it seems to be such a point of interest for little miss turtl.....my coati was kept as a house pet long before he came to me a few months ago. He hated to be in outdoor enclosures to the point of getting rather upset. It has been a long and trying time even getting him to be fine being alone for a few hours, and the process of spending more time outdoors alone is a project for when spring kicks in. Ok???

I can see that RFUK has spawned yet another baby keyboard warrior in Turtl, hardly worth paying attention to, because we've seen so many before. I imagine he'll bang on about "the industry" (??) at every possible time until he (a) gets bored and leaves us happily in peace, or (b) realises that personal attacks are best left in the playground, and he'll play nicely with the grown ups!

And yes, I strongly believe that with the exception of importing wild caught animals to introduce new genes to a well established breeding programme in zoos etc, that taking animals from its happy place in a jungle is pretty dreadful, and also supports and encourages a sick trade in illegally caught animals. But if Turtl can live with that, then that's his business and we'll know exactly what kind of man he is.

I'm done here!


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm neither for nor against the practice of wild catching but we all know that every species we now call our pets, were at one time, wild- and caught and tamed one way or another. The thing that concerns me is, how on earth would you know whether your imported animal (or its parents) has been 'caught' in an ethical and responsible manner?! You cannot make that claim.
As for the original post, whether you like it or not, judging by recent trends in other countries IMO it is only a matter of time before the sloth becomes the next trend in exotic keeping here. Personally if its going to happen I would sooner show my support to those who import captive bred animals and start their own breeding programmes than advocate taking more from their natural habitat.


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## wilkinss77 (Sep 23, 2008)

Turtl said:


> No. I don't understand your resentment of wc animals, as long ad they're ethically and humanely sourced there is no problem. For the record none of the tamarins, tortoises or other animals I breed are of wild caught origins but all were sourced from outside of Europe (with the exception of s. Imperator).
> 
> I was simply pointing out what an uneducated and unhelpful post "criss" had made. He doesn't approve of people keeping sloths, good for him, I don't know anyone in the industry who would approve keeping a male coati as a housepet (a sloth would actually be more suitable).


coati mundi's have been established as pets for years now (i have a kid's book from the 60s that even mentions keeping them), but sloths have not.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> I personaly think each to there own.
> Trying to help an unknown source such an animal is wrong.
> Why would you want to.
> 
> ...


Yet you jump to the defence of the imbicile who keeps a pet coati? Read what I typed; "a sloth would actually be more suitable". I do not believe any undomesticated species make appropriate pets.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

1930sam said:


> Mate get over criss, I don't know him, the points Im making are my own, my argument is my own.
> Someone has a coati isn't a cracking argument for WC is ok.
> 
> Regardless of what other people do, how other people keep animals, my point still stands.


I have had to re-read this post because it makes little sense. What point? 

The collection of animals in the 60's and 70's was unregulated and more a product of the lack of media and access to information. Times are infeed very different now which is a good thing.

I'll have to assume you didn't read my post because no one would be foolish enough to argue or believe that having a coati is a pro wc caught argument (besides yourself ofcouse). I have had many idiots trying (and being sent home empty handed) to acquire tamarins and snakes I have bred but you really are a fine example. Who ever trusted you with their animals really should be prohibited from keeping anything themselves.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

There are different definitions of 'pets'. My chickens are my pets, but they don't belong inside, does that mean they can't be my pets? When someone keeps primates for example, they rarely refer to them as 'pets' but many would argue they still are considered so, even when kept impeccably close to their natural conditions. The subject is terribly complex- do any of us have a right to own ANY animal if you really think about the ethics..?
Anyways where did the OP go, did he just start a fight and bugger off?! :lol2:


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

wilkinss77 said:


> coati mundi's have been established as pets for years now (i have a kid's book from the 60s that even mentions keeping them), but sloths have not.


Gosh, really? Lions have been kept as pets for centuries. My grandfather kept an orang utan. Only domestic animals make suitable "pets"

The requiremts of a sloth are not nearly has difficult to meet ad those for a coati and that's a cold hard fact.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Turtl said:


> Yet you jump to the defence of the imbicile who keeps a pet coati? Read what I typed; "a sloth would actually be more suitable". I do not believe any undomesticated species make appropriate pets.


I jumped too no deffence.
I gave my opinion.
Never mentioned coati.
But did mention sloath.

IMBICILE...I can judge that for myself thank you.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

Turtl said:


> Gosh, really? Lions have been kept as pets for centuries. My grandfather kept an orang utan. Only domestic animals make suitable "pets"
> 
> The requiremts of a sloth are not nearly has difficult to meet ad those for a coati and that's a cold hard fact.


So what do you call the animals you keep if they are not your 'pets'?


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

5plusmany said:


> There are different definitions of 'pets'. My chickens are my pets, but they don't belong inside, does that mean they can't be my pets? When someone keeps primates for example, they rarely refer to them as 'pets' but many would argue they still are considered so, even when kept impeccably close to their natural conditions. The subject is terribly complex- do any of us have a right to own ANY animal if you really think about the ethics..?
> Anyways where did the OP go, did he just start a fight and bugger off?! :lol2:


I know what you're saying here. There are people who keep primates as pets (keep them indoors/handle them/try to tame them down) then there are those (like myself) that keep them on their grounds for the challenge/enjoyment of breeding them and providing as close to natural conditions as possible so you can get the pleasure of observing them just being tamarins.

One scenario the animals are "pets" the other they are not. The only pet we own is our dog. 

There are exotic owners who can't provide the space these animals need (infact there are many zoos guilty of this too) and that is why you see idiots with coatis on leads. All non-domestic animal ownership should be regulated.

Each of my tamarin species have an enclosure that has a footplan of 24sq meters. My giant tortoises have 120sq meters. The only animal I need walk is my dog.
This is my opinion.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> I jumped too no deffence.
> I gave my opinion.
> Never mentioned coati.
> But did mention sloath.
> ...


I'm using my phone and may have got confused with u and another commenter? I hope you don't mind me correcting you?

It's a "sloth" there is no animal called a "sloath"


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> I that is why you see idiots with coatis on leads.
> This is my opinion.


so people that take coatis, raccoons, skunks etc for a walk are "idiots"?
Wow! You're really going to make a lot of friends on here!

Perhaps a trip to the park is something our animals really enjoy. The stimulus and space to explore is something that no enclosure provides, and you'll find that it's something that a whole load of keepers on this forum does.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

5plusmany said:


> So what do you call the animals you keep if they are not your 'pets'?


We refer to them as "animals" as I said they are not pets and we do not treat them as such. The primates are not stressed by the presence of humans but are not tame either.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> I'm using my phone and may have got confused with u and another commenter? I hope you don't mind me correcting you?
> 
> It's a "sloth" there is no animal called a "sloath"


I hardly think you are one to comment on spelling, sir! You may want to check your spelling of the word *"imbecile"* before passing judgement on others!

If you insist on making a pathetic attempt at insulting me, then I insist it be done in English....not whatever strange dialect that you seem to have picked up!


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Turtl said:


> I'll have to assume you didn't read my post because no one would be foolish enough to argue or believe that having a coati is a pro wc caught argument (besides yourself ofcouse).


Yes I am incredibly stupid, sophomoric and imbecilic, thats why I keep bringing up someone that keeps a coati as though its related to the debate over WC pets. Oh Wait.


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

Turtl said:


> I'm using my phone and may have got confused with u and another commenter? I hope you don't mind me correcting you?
> 
> It's a "sloth" there is no animal called a "sloath"


So we have not only a quick judging, Pro WC newbie, but also a grammar nazi. (Spelling is a part of Grammar, before you decide to lash out on me)

To be honest I believe endangered sloths should only be "owned" by very experienced people for the purpose of breeding them.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> so people that take coatis, raccoons, skunks etc for a walk are "idiots"?
> Wow! You're really going to make a lot of friends on here!
> 
> Perhaps a trip to the park is something our animals really enjoy. The stimulus and space to explore is something that no enclosure provides, and you'll find that it's something that a whole load of keepers on this forum does.


Perhaps you should only acquire animals you can provide for? "stimulus and space to explore" is something no enclosure can provide? That's absolute rubbish. The animal is tethered. I have seen enclosures for privately owned animals in Europe and zoos around the world which are large natually planted and provide far more enrichment than an hour in the park can. As I said; if you can't provide for the animal then you have no business working with it. 

We have 5 acres of undeveloped woodland complete with stream winding through it on our property, some of which we had considered using for a dwa feline species (a friend offered me a pair of sibling fishing cats)##. Honestly tell me a skunk/coati is better off living in a cage with the occasional walk in a park? 

##we are now fencing it for an unrelated pair of cassowary (pending dwa) will be shipping from the USA in june


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

yugimon121 said:


> So we have not only a quick judging, Pro WC newbie, but also a grammar nazi. (Spelling is a part of Grammar, before you decide to lash out on me)
> 
> To be honest I believe endangered sloths should only be "owned" by very experienced people for the purpose of breeding them.


Hello, I was honestly helping the guy out. If I was spelling an species name wrong often I would like it pointed put to me.

I believe "endangered sloths" are better off left alone in the wild. Three toed sloths (which is what the two endagered species are) are much more difficult to breed in captivity. As I have previously pointed out all sloths in captivity are the very abundant species any way.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> I hardly think you are one to comment on spelling, sir! You may want to check your spelling of the word *"imbecile"* before passing judgement on others!
> 
> If you insist on making a pathetic attempt at insulting me, then I insist it be done in English....not whatever strange dialect that you seem to have picked up!



As I said im on a train using a phone sorry for any grammatical errors. I pointed out the repeated mis-spelling of a species name. I'd want to be corrected if I were in his situation (perhaps he was spelling it as hecwpuld pronounce it so By correcting him im helping there too?)


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

You're great fun.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

1930sam said:


> Yes I am incredibly stupid, sophomoric and imbecilic, thats why I keep bringing up someone that keeps a coati as though its related to the debate over WC pets. Oh Wait.


I'll have to assume youre not serious? At absoluey no point have I used coati in captivity to support any thoughts on wild capture. It's only bee
mentioned in relation to husbandry.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> Perhaps you should only acquire animals you can provide for? "stimulus and space to explore" is something no enclosure can provide? That's absolute rubbish. The animal is tethered. I have seen enclosures for privately owned animals in Europe and zoos around the world which are large natually planted and provide far more enrichment than an hour in the park can. As I said; if you can't provide for the animal then you have no business working with it.
> 
> We have 5 acres of undeveloped woodland complete with stream winding through it on our property, some of which we had considered using for a dwa feline species (a friend offered me a pair of sibling fishing cats)##. Honestly tell me a skunk/coati is better off living in a cage with the occasional walk in a park?
> 
> ##we are now fencing it for an unrelated pair of cassowary (pending dwa) will be shipping from the USA in june


Bit full of yourself, aren't you?

Incidentally, an extending lead gives many opportunities to run, climb, swim whatever (although you never find Kenny swimming!). It also offers opportunities for play with the pets of friends (Kenny's bezzy is a lovely raccoon). I know you think you're the be all and end all of exotic care, but myself and others have had much experience also. For example, I used to be a zoo keeper of everything from tigers to binturong. Just because you wouldn't choose to do this, doesn't make it wrong......surely even someone as conceited you can would admit to that.

Good luck with the cassowaries. I've cared for ostriches, emu and rhea before....but it would be nice to have the full set. As we weren't able to source CB ones, we decided it wasn't for us.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Turtl said:


> I'm using my phone and may have got confused with u and another commenter? I hope you don't mind me correcting you?
> 
> It's a "sloth" there is no animal called a "sloath"


I too am using phone.
But my spelling is bad anyway.
Most here know that.
But the point is you know whst i meant.
I too keep and successfully bread sevrral species of new world primate.
I kerp them as monkeys...
Not inside house.
Dont look on them ss pets on the domesticated sense.
I enjoy my hobby very much and we sre devoted too it.
Believe it or not but bad spelling or not i still earn ovrr 50000 a year...
And this is about the animals.
Not annother smart arxx trying to educste me on grammer.
Too old to learn new tricks and happy with it.


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Turtl said:


> It's only been mentioned in relation to husbandry.


Which is unrelated. You've found my point, didn't think I'd hidden it that well.


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

God you lot are like a bunch of bitchy women!:lol2:
turtl its great you are rich and whatever, unfortunately some of us aren't. That doesn't mean we can't provide an enjoyable enriching life for our animals, some of us just have to get a bit inventive. There's not many on here who haven't researched their animals and done their absolute best to ensure their health and happiness.
All arguments aside, surely this is the most important thing?


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Bit full of yourself, aren't you?
> 
> Incidentally, an extending lead gives many opportunities to run, climb, swim whatever (although you never find Kenny swimming!). It also offers opportunities for play with the pets of friends (Kenny's bezzy is a lovely raccoon). I know you think you're the be all and end all of exotic care, but myself and others have had much experience also. For example, I used to be a zoo keeper of everything from tigers to binturong. Just because you wouldn't choose to do this, doesn't make it wrong......surely even someone as conceited you can would admit to that.
> 
> Good luck with the cassowaries. I've cared for ostriches, emu and rhea before....but it would be nice to have the full set. As we weren't able to source CB ones, we decided it wasn't for us.


I know we disagree and I know I have an elitist opinion on how animals should be cared for. This whole "debate" grew out of a belief that sloths are not suitable pets. I'm sorry but I found it a little hypocritical to say that when you had a coati. I wouldn't choose to walk an exotic on leash, no it's not wrong it's just far from ideal. I'm sure it attracts attention from idiots, you're animal is at risk from other peoples dogs and if it escapes there are all sorts of repercussions (I have been told there are breeding skunks in the new Forrest).

After graduation I worked in the labs of two zoos in the USA, I came back to the uk when my dad left me his property (I now work for a university).

I do find it a little baffling that so many herp keepers are so anti wc. Where do they think the huge diversity came from?


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> I too am using phone.
> But my spelling is bad anyway.
> Most here know that.
> But the point is you know whst i meant.
> ...


Gosh, I wasn't coming at you for spelling. I think it's a pathetic means of points scoring. I was honestly helping you out im sure you'll never mis-spell it again (it's also prounonced sloth not slowth)

Good then you keep exotics the way they should be kept.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

1930sam said:


> Which is unrelated. You've found my point, didn't think I'd hidden it that well.



I think I'll just block you. You really have something missing


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> I know we disagree and I know I have an elitist opinion on how animals should be cared for. This whole "debate" grew out of a belief that sloths are not suitable pets. I'm sorry but I found it a little hypocritical to say that when you had a coati. I wouldn't choose to walk an exotic on leash, no it's not wrong it's just far from ideal. I'm sure it attracts attention from idiots, you're animal is at risk from other peoples dogs and if it escapes there are all sorts of repercussions (I have been told there are breeding skunks in the


my point wasn't that sloths make unsuitable pets.....it was yourself that chose to bring that idea into the mix. I was suggesting that the wild population of sloths could do without taking the hit an exotic pet fad a la slow loris. Comparing coati ownership to this is a silly because as has already been said, they have been around forever, and all the pets are taken from captive bred specimens. 

Kenny's *daily* 2 hour walk in the park has always been a very positive experience for us both. Dogs have only been an issue a couple of times, and he will always jump on my shoulder when one is off the lead anyway. People are interested and want to ask questions, but I never encourage them to get a coati themselves. As for escaping....it's actually happened twice, but Kenny is bonded to me.....so he runs up a tree, but comes back when called. 
You may not have this kind of relationship with an exotic, so it may be hard for you to comprehend, but the benefits far outweigh any negative points.

As I've said before on a similar thread....to live life with paranoia and fear of what could happen would be a very boring life indeed. Please don't take from that that I am unecessarily careless (I'm acutally ever vigilant), but I don't buy into this whole shutting ourselves behind closed doors thing that a few exotic keepers do. Remember.....it still doesn't make it wrong if you choose not to. But it is wrong, and rather immature, for you to pass judgement like that!


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

5plusmany said:


> God you lot are like a bunch of bitchy women!:lol2:
> turtl its great you are rich and whatever, unfortunately some of us aren't. That doesn't mean we can't provide an enjoyable enriching life for our animals, some of us just have to get a bit inventive. There's not many on here who haven't researched their animals and done their absolute best to ensure their health and happiness.
> All arguments aside, surely this is the most important thing?


Do you think thats really true? How many people here house their animals in less than ideal scenarios? Shouldn't people only keep animals they can give the very best of care for? If you know an animal needs to be outside rooting around for invertebrates why put it on a situation where it can't when there are plenty of alternatives species?

I don't think personal wealth is an issue. If you're not in a position to meet a species husbandry requirements then you should refrain from keeping it. This is where I think there needs to be more regulation.

I don't think exotics should ever be considered pets.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> I was honestly helping you out im sure you'll never mis-spell it again (it's also prounonced sloth not slowth)


Could this be any more patronising? And that's coming from _*me!!!*_:gasp::lol2:


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

> I think I'll just block you. You really have something missing


Then do, you don't need to discuss it with me. I don't care about your retrogressive views on animal sourcing, your half baked insults or grandiloquent, selfcongratulatory narcissism. 



mrcriss said:


> Could this be any more patronising?


Not with out finger puppets.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Sloath Sloath Sloath Sloath
THINK YOUVE LOST THE BET...
At 49 i hate being spoken to like that.
Who the hell do you think you are...
If i need help ill ask for it..
Not all have had uni etc.
I come from a working class family.
Ive worked hard for all my achievements..
Going by your post youve never experianced blisters from a days graft.
Grow up for gods sake...
Just trying to help him.
You patronising spoilt xxx


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

1930sam said:


> Then do, you don't need to discuss it with me. I don't care about your retrogressive views on animal sourcing, your half baked insults or grandiloquent, selfcongratulatory narcissism.
> 
> 
> Not with out finger puppets.


:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:

Hahahahahaha......

I think this has said it all and put a close to a tedious thread. Anyone that tries to follow this is a smelly poo poo 

At least we've all made a new friend in Turtl.....oh wait!:whistling2:


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

Your wrong, it is officially pronounced both sloth and sloath. there is no right nor wrong. now stop being a cocky tick.


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> my point wasn't that sloths make unsuitable pets.....it was yourself that chose to bring that idea into the mix. I was suggesting that the wild population of sloths could do without taking the hit an exotic pet fad a la slow loris. Comparing coati ownership to this is a silly because as has already been said, they have been around forever, and all the pets are taken from captive bred specimens.
> 
> Kenny's *daily* 2 hour walk in the park has always been a very positive experience for us both. Dogs have only been an issue a couple of times, and he will always jump on my shoulder when one is off the lead anyway. People are interested and want to ask questions, but I never encourage them to get a coati themselves. As for escaping....it's actually happened twice, but Kenny is bonded to me.....so he runs up a tree, but comes back when called.
> You may not have this kind of relationship with an exotic, so it may be hard for you to comprehend, but the benefits far outweigh any negative points.
> ...


I've been to indonesia and Malaysia where slow loris are still rather common they took a small hit but habitat destruction will be their undoing. People have a tendency to buy into hyperbole. The "fad" where thousands were apparently exported for the exotic pet trade never happened as evidenced by the absolute scarcity of them in Europe japan and the USA. Sloths are very, very common. They are already bred by many private keepers in Europe and the USA. It was the immediate assumption that wc was the only to a acquire sloths I took issue with.

I'm not sure where the last paragraph fits in but I work with several dwa species with which there is always an element of risk. I dont do it for the risk or get any pleasure out of the percieved danger. I don't think living with
paranoia would be boring would it?

My battery is nearing it's end so I'll have to pick this up later.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

yugimon121 said:


> Your wrong, it is officially pronounced both sloth and sloath. there is no right nor wrong. now stop being a cocky tick.


Just gotta say that although the majority of video sigs do my head in, I've always liked yours....and it kind of gives me the creeps


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Could this be any more patronising? And that's coming from _*me!!!*_:gasp::lol2:


It wasn't intended to be. So you can stop your stirring.

As previously stated if I'm pronouncing/spelling something incorrectly there's no shame in being corrected.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

mrcriss said:


> :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:
> 
> Hahahahahaha......
> 
> ...


Chriss ill have to nod and agree.
Can you pm me and explain those big words...


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

At least i can spell turtle :bash:


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> Sloath Sloath Sloath Sloath
> THINK YOUVE LOST THE BET...
> At 49 i hate being spoken to like that.
> Who the hell do you think you are...
> ...


Really? I'm 31, at the moment I work 60 hour weeks. sometimes I don't see sunlight all week. I spent 7 years at university which I paid for myself, no loans no grants. I have a phd and currently work in reproductive biology.

I pay a local college student to look after my non dwa collection because my job currently doesnt give me the time. My gf looks after the dwa.

As this just got ugly why not indulge you? What an immature and petty 49 year old. I also come from a working class family which I initially failed to see any relevance in. But as you brought it up i have a salary of 76k which doesn't include publishing bonuses. 
Two years ago i purchased 17 acres of woodland and pasture with planning permission for a barn conversion. Every weekend for a year i helped out where i could labouring for the construction firmmanx eventually building my own aviaries and enclosures to the highest standard possible. My dad left me a 
small house in 2006 which My girlfriends parents live in I have not and never will take any rent from them (we actually pay some of their bills). I keep 4 tamarin species, giant tortoises, Cuban iguanas and 30 species of bird (14 of which are in a 18x8 meter aviary I personally built) I have the oy breeding groups of two lory species in the uk. So you tell me who is the bigger success?


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Probably the guy who doesn't d*ck on about his salary on a forum about reptiles. Look at this its bigger than yours, what would Freud say?:whistling2:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> I've been to indonesia and Malaysia where slow loris are still rather common they took a small hit but habitat destruction will be their undoing. People have a tendency to buy into hyperbole. The "fad" where thousands were apparently exported for the exotic pet trade never happened as evidenced by the absolute scarcity of them in Europe japan and the USA. Sloths are very, very common. They are already bred by many private keepers in Europe and the USA. It was the immediate assumption that wc was the only to a acquire sloths I took issue with.
> 
> I'm not sure where the last paragraph fits in but I work with several dwa species with which there is always an element of risk. I dont do it for the risk or get any pleasure out of the percieved danger. I don't think living with
> paranoia would be boring would it?
> ...





Turtl said:


> Really? I'm 31, at the moment I work 60 hour weeks. sometimes I don't see sunlight all week. I spent 7 years at university which I paid for myself, no loans no grants. I have a phd and currently work in reproductive biology.
> 
> I pay a local college student to look after my non dwa collection because my job currently doesnt give me the time. My gf looks after the dwa.
> 
> ...


Oh for christ's sake, give it up!

If you really have that much cash, then you should have better things to do on a Saturday afternoon than getting catty on a forum! I'm only on here 'cos I'm skint today!


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Small woodland creatures rub baby oil into my bulging biceps every night then I read my own personal copy of the Gutenberg Bible signed by God himself, as I gently caress my hand tame giant panda upon a throne made from the tears of orphaned eagles.


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## suity (Aug 4, 2009)

Wow... guys shouldn't we try to avoid this petty arguing. Peter you are one of the best and most respected keepers on here and Criss I know very little about from what I've seen you take great care of the animals you have.

Turtl, I for one am always excited to see another keeper on here who seems to have a wealth of experience and knowledge. I would love you to stick around so myself and others can learn from you. But coming on here with few posts and credibility and being outwardly aggressive to others won't go down too well. Different opinions are great because they force us to look at things from other perspectives, but arguing never gets people anywhere. Things have escalated now and it's beyond a joke.

This forum is about the animals and their care and welfare, not people getting on their soapboxes. And most certainly not about how much money we make in a year. Or at least thats what its supposed to be about.

Just my opinion.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

1930sam said:


> Small woodland creatures rub baby oil into my bulging biceps every night then I read my own personal copy of the Gutenberg Bible signed by God himself, as I gently caress my hand tame giant panda upon a throne made from the tears of orphaned eagles.


Hahahahahahahahaha......

Mate, you're on comedy fire now!


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

mrcriss said:


> Oh for christ's sake, give it up!
> 
> If you really have that much cash, then you should have better things to do on a Saturday afternoon than getting catty on a forum! I'm only on here 'cos I'm skint today!


I'm on a train


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

Turtl said:


> I'm on a train


You said, I thought your battery was nearly dead?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

1930sam said:


> You said, I thought your battery was nearly dead?


"Thought" or "hoped"?


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

I suppose that 75K P.A. job in reproductive biology must be paying for a cracking mobile battery. Eh turtl?


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

1930sam said:


> I suppose that 75K P.A. job in reproductive biology must be paying for a cracking mobile battery. Eh turtl?


.......or a mobile power station


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

1930sam said:


> I suppose that 75K P.A. job in reproductive biology must be paying for a cracking mobile battery. Eh turtl?


There are sockets on trains! Even I didn't know that. It's 66k another case of phone fingers point Is more than 15 years younger and I earn more than 15k more


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Turtl said:


> There are sockets on trains! Even I didn't know that. It's 66k another case of phone fingers point Is more than 15 years younger and I earn more than 15k more


????????????????????


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Do you really think anyone cares about how much money you earn? One would have thought that you were old enough to realise there is nowt more loathsome than a bragger!


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## Turtl (Apr 26, 2012)

I know it is awful, I'm not proud that I did it but its obviously very important to the person who brought it up.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Been hrre been there know this bls bla bla.
Wait till the train goes through a dark tunnell.
Look at window and have a good look at yourself.


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## 1930sam (Sep 12, 2011)

I tire of Mr turtl and his lack of a personality - well a good one anyway. 
I declare this thread now pointless. :2wallbang:


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

I tire too. I'm going to go and be poor (and consequently a bad animal keeper, apparently), sober (how depressing), and craving a *** (arrrrgggghh!).
Have a lovely weekend guys!


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