# Surprised by a shop



## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm not a venomous keeper -my experience has been restricted to wild venomous species- and I was surprised by a recent visit to a shop in the South West. In the best tradition of the forum it shall remain nameless. I have seen DWA animals for sale before, usually in secure vivs/boxes stored inside another secure area. In the shop I visited, _Naja_ and _Crotalus_ specimens were displayed in ordinary vivs at child's height with no more than a standard viv lock. There was also a small Caiman in a similar viv. This surprised me as I thought that premises open to the public had to have more stringent security. What are your thoughts?


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> I'm not a venomous keeper -my experience has been restricted to wild venomous species- and I was surprised by a recent visit to a shop in the South West. In the best tradition of the forum it shall remain nameless. I have seen DWA animals for sale before, usually in secure vivs/boxes stored inside another secure area. In the shop I visited, _Naja_ and _Crotalus_ specimens were displayed in ordinary vivs at child's height with no more than a standard viv lock. There was also a small Caiman in a similar viv. This surprised me as I thought that premises open to the public had to have more stringent security. What are your thoughts?


If it was locked then that would seem ok.

As far as I'm aware there are no special DWA locks, just plain old viv locks!


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Podarcis said:


> I'm not a venomous keeper -my experience has been restricted to wild venomous species- and I was surprised by a recent visit to a shop in the South West. In the best tradition of the forum it shall remain nameless. I have seen DWA animals for sale before, usually in secure vivs/boxes stored inside another secure area. In the shop I visited, _Naja_ and _Crotalus_ specimens were displayed in ordinary vivs at child's height with no more than a standard viv lock. There was also a small Caiman in a similar viv. This surprised me as I thought that premises open to the public had to have more stringent security. What are your thoughts?


Zoo's usually have DWAL listed species behind just glass, or tigers in areas that if you really wanted could be accessed in a second. I think they are relying on people using a tiny bit of common sense, it doesn't take much, it really doesn't!

If you really have a major worry about it report it to whoever, or what I would do first if I felt something was wrong would be to talk to the shop! I don't know if you have done this but a lot of people come on here & talk about a bad situation in shops without having a chat to them first.


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm not saying it was a bad situation -after all, snakes can't pick locks! If I'd had concerns, I would have had a chat.

"Zoo's usually have DWAL listed species behind just glass, or tigers in areas that if you really wanted could be accessed in a second."

Take your point, but usually very thick glass now, and big cats (safari parks notwithstanding) usually have double fencing. But, as I say, i know what you mean. Zoos also have antivenom in many cases - at least London does.

Was just wondering what people's thoughts were?


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Just re-read my daft original post - "I'm not a venomous keeper". Are any keepers venomous?


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## Kalouda (Sep 1, 2010)

Podarcis said:


> Just re-read my daft original post - "I'm not a venomous keeper". Are any keepers venomous?


LMAO! Now thats quality! I really don't think the keepers are but the snakes and such they keep are :2thumb:


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## quadrapop (Sep 20, 2008)

The thing that would worry me is with a viv lock on you can still lift the glass out which if some idiot (we know they exist) tried to they could easily let the snake out.


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## Jade01 (Feb 21, 2007)

Podarcis said:


> Just re-read my daft original post - "I'm not a venomous keeper". Are any keepers venomous?




Haha! I like it


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

quadrapop said:


> The thing that would worry me is with a viv lock on you can still lift the glass out which if some idiot (we know they exist) tried to they could easily let the snake out.


How can I put this......

If they are daft enough then I'd let them!

They'll only do it once.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2010)

Any chance you could give me the details to the shop I maybe after a caiman soon


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

They have a lock on the door, what else do you want them to do?
I have locks on my vivs - break the glass, an stick in your hand... at your own risk!

I love threads like these, allows RFUK to "live it up", the way it always has!

Dave


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

Believe it or not, I don't think it is necessarily a problem, it was just different to previous 'DWA' shops I'd seen.

"I have locks on my vivs - break the glass, an stick in your hand... at your own risk!" I always assumed that the double glass I'd seen before had been to allow for the plonker factor who might do just that!

I don't think the Caiman was for sale


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## Owzy (Jan 19, 2009)

Podarcis said:


> Believe it or not, I don't think it is necessarily a problem, it was just different to previous 'DWA' shops I'd seen.
> 
> "I have locks on my vivs - break the glass, an stick in your hand... at your own risk!" I always assumed that the double glass I'd seen before had been to allow for the plonker factor who might do just that!
> 
> I don't think the Caiman was for sale


There is a bigger repelant at his than double glass.... Dave himself! 

I know some that have them behind double glass, some that have them in standard viv's with lock's on, some that won't put them out on public display... I guess it depends on what they are comftable with/council requirements. I think at the end of the day unless they have them out showing them to every joe public it's no big deal, far bigger dangers all over.... a field of cows for example!


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Must admit that at the only shop that stocked DWA I've ever been to, the DWA species were in secured containers/vivs inside a locked separate area of the shop (glass/perspex windows with a door to create a sort of "patio" around the DWA space).


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## Arachnoking (May 21, 2005)

Podarcis said:


> I'm not saying it was a bad situation -after all, snakes can't pick locks! If I'd had concerns, I would have had a chat.
> 
> "Zoo's usually have DWAL listed species behind just glass, or tigers in areas that if you really wanted could be accessed in a second."
> 
> ...


 
Are you sure London zoo keeps antivenom in stock? Something that to my knowledge has a short shelf life (Just incase) someone gets bitten. I can imagine that would be an expensive "what iff"


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## Podarcis (Mar 1, 2010)

That's what I'd experienced Ssthisto. London Zoo have antivenom, which costs them a fortune!


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## slippery42 (Mar 23, 2008)

Podarcis said:


> That's what I'd experienced Ssthisto. London Zoo have antivenom, which costs them a fortune!


I cannot see why LZS would hold AV?


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## Mememe (Feb 15, 2009)

slippery42 said:


> I cannot see why LZS would hold AV?


I can confirm they do.

If I remember correctly, it seems 'health and safety' has got to them and they must hold antivenom for their snakes (despite the fact that it can't be administered without a doctor etc,). Shame, as it restricts what they can keep and costs a lot of time and money. Also throws up a grey area of what requires antivenom or not - is _Atheris_ with no antivenom a more dangerous animal to keep thana Mamba with antivenom?


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## snakekeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

I have also heard that LZ have antivenom. Again it's all a bit weird as no member of staff at the zoo can administer it, they simply have to have it with them on route to the hospital.


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## lotti (Aug 20, 2010)

most hospitals have no idea about anti venom anyway,when my hubbie was tagged he rang our local hosp who had no idea what to do,luckily it was a dry bite otherwise he'd of been a gonna!(and ive got him well insured now):whistling2: i think you have to ring a special hosp that stock it and get th air ambulance to get you there asap,think most venomous keepers have all info and no's at hand incase!


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## pythondave82 (Nov 14, 2007)

slippery42 said:


> I cannot see why LZS would hold AV?


They do mate - most have.

WMSP, London, Bangor etc, etc...


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## snakedude2010 (Sep 11, 2010)

Jaggers said:


> Any chance you could give me the details to the shop I maybe after a caiman soon


warrington exotics have caimen in i dont know where you live but just thought id give you the info


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## Gomjaba (May 25, 2009)

One shop I saw they had the opening to the back, so the front to the customer it not a door, just a wall of glass 

Another shop I saw had locked rubs in a locked viv and those exo terra vivs with a simple padlock with golden eye lash viper ... didn't "feel" insecure to be honest.


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