# A question....



## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm getting a tank in a few weeks, it's been running successfully for a few years. 

Now I wanted to donate the fish (after a while) and fill it with something else but I'm concerned about water paramters and ammonia etc. Obviously if I remove the fish there will be less ammonia production and eventually the bacteria that feed on the ammonia will die off, is this correct? Basically I want to know how long I can leave it empty and still have it functioning with all the bacteria doing their thang. A few days, what?

Also, if I were to acquire a brand new tank, rather than cycling is it possible to transfer some of the water from the old tank so it's as if it's been already cycled?

Hope that makes sense.


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm getting a tank in a few weeks, it's been running successfully for a few years.
> 
> Now I wanted to donate the fish (after a while) and fill it with something else but I'm concerned about water paramters and ammonia etc. Obviously if I remove the fish there will be less ammonia production and eventually the bacteria that feed on the ammonia will die off, is this correct? Basically I want to know how long I can leave it empty and still have it functioning with all the bacteria doing their thang. A few days, what?
> 
> ...


Just get a frozen prawn or something and put it in the tank, then as it decomposes it'll create amonia to keep the bacteria going, either that or feed the tank with fish food (as if you were feeding the fish).

I'm not sure on the second bit whether that would work, I'm pretty sure you'll still have to cycle it. It would make the process quicker if you were to use the filter sponge/carbon of the cycled filter and put it in the filter in your new tank. I think that cuts down the process by a few weeks.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah that makes sense, or just add small amounts of ammonia?

Ok, wasn't sure. Thanks.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I'm getting a tank in a few weeks, it's been running successfully for a few years.
> 
> Now I wanted to donate the fish (after a while) and fill it with something else but I'm concerned about water paramters and ammonia etc. Obviously if I remove the fish there will be less ammonia production and eventually the bacteria that feed on the ammonia will die off, is this correct? Basically I want to know how long I can leave it empty and still have it functioning with all the bacteria doing their thang. A few days, what?You should be fine for a few days... much more than this and I'd look to try and create an ammonia source.
> 
> ...


As for ammonia source yeah, fish food, prawns, ammonia etc is all good


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Excellent.

Cheers for the help.

I'm not sure what's in the tank, I know there's a clown loach, gourami maybe a few danios but it's quite a small tank and I wanted just a single species of a small shoaling fish, something easy but attractive like neon or cardinal tetras.


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah that makes sense, or just add small amounts of ammonia?
> 
> Ok, wasn't sure. Thanks.


Yep, just so long as you're feeding them :2thumb:


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Excellent.
> 
> Cheers for the help.
> 
> I'm not sure what's in the tank, I know there's a clown loach, gourami maybe a few danios but it's quite a small tank and I wanted just a single species of a small shoaling fish, something easy but attractive like neon or cardinal tetras.


Rehoming the stock in this case sounds like a good idea... I'd vote for cardinals everytime... I find they shoal better than neons, and are far brighter in colour... not to mention hardier than most neons these days:S


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Cardinals sound good. Fish seem so much cheaper than frogs/reps!

I'll probably spend a fortune on plants and aquascaping knowing me, thought the lighting isn't great.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

I'd say the initial setup for fish is significantly dearer than reps, but aquariums are a total rip off when new- especially kits. You can get a hold of some fish for 30p quite easily... but long term they cost very little

I've looked into getting frogs and god are some of them pricey... beautiful nevertheless

If you stick to crypts, swords and vallis you can get a really nice looking tank... even with low lighting.

If you want inspiration check out Welcome To The UK Aquatic Plant Society - It's the home of aquascaping royalty


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Cardinals sound good. Fish seem so much cheaper than frogs/reps!
> 
> I'll probably spend a fortune on plants and aquascaping knowing me, thought the lighting isn't great.


Yeah, I'd deffo rehome them.

I've been trying to get a decent lighting system for my tank but the only problem is all the tube lights are too long for my hood, even ones that aren't reaching the 3WPG rule :bash:

Another good forum is - The Planted Tank Forum
It has great articles on planted tanks and there's blogs ect you can read for inspiration.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool links. Uh oh....I feel a new obsession coming on....

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/56042-excellent-list-low-light-plants.html

This is definitely what I need.


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> *Cool links. Uh oh....I feel a new obsession coming on....*
> 
> Excellent List of Low Light Plants
> 
> This is definitely what I need.


Good, hehe :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Now to get a grip on this co2 thing.....*reads more*


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Man those co2 kits are expensive.

If I'm having a low light aquarium do I really need added co2?


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Now to get a grip on this co2 thing.....*reads more*





Morgan Freeman said:


> Man those co2 kits are expensive.
> 
> If I'm having a low light aquarium do I really need added co2?


No, you only really need CO2 if you have a lot of light, either way, the fish will give out enough carbon dioxide to keep everything OK. I think someone said that you don't really need to bother with it either unless at least 80% the tank is planted.


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## Esfa (Apr 15, 2007)

Morgan Freeman said:


> If I'm having a low light aquarium do I really need added co2?


deffo not : victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank f**k for that.

I've been reading up on planted tanks for hours now. Can't wait to get my hands on the thing.

Found a few test kits lying about in my dart frog cabinet (converted fish tank) so hopefully I can just use those.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Ahh morgans getting the fish bug now too! :lol2:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

_jake_ said:


> Ahh morgans getting the fish bug now too! :lol2:


I know, nightmare. Have wanted a tank for ages to be honest ever since I made that fake rock structure one for my mum last year.

So.....It'll probably take me six months to get a tank finished judging by my previous form.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry. TWO more questions. Ish.

Can someone advise a good fert and regime?

Also, some "Amazon" style plants that will work well? Tall and grass like would be cool.

Also can't decide on full plant substrate vs capping with regular substrate. If there's a nice brown/sand amazon type that would be wicked.

I'm so sad I've skecthed out some aquascapes already.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Hehe, I have 7 tanks running atm...Don't rush into things, plan it well and go slowly.Welcome To The UK Aquatic Plant Society is great. 
There's great pinned topics here:
Planted Aquariums Resource Center - Tropical Fish Forums
E.g make your own co2 system , Common hardy plants.
You should try and make a moss wall, that would be awesome.


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## Lee2211 (Jan 28, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Sorry. TWO more questions. Ish.
> 
> Can someone advise a good fert and regime?
> 
> ...


Fert regime: Put your plants in and leave them untill they start to look in need of some ferts, use the what it says on the bottle and keep doing that. I read this somewhere and it said that you need to keep an eye on how the plants look, because you don't want to add too much, but to little will ruin all the work you've put in to it. So keep an eye on the plants and keep dosing with ferts when they look a bit droopy/sad.
Somebody else will probably come along and correct what I've written, it's just what I read in an article.

I'd personaly go with ADA aqua soil capped with play sand. Because Aqua soil has iron in it and other stuff to keep your plants healthy, and if you dose regularly with ferts then it will stay fertile soil. Plus sand looks amazing and certain catfish prefer it because gravel damages their barbels.

PS - It's not sad, it's good forward planning!


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Lee2211 said:


> Fert regime: Put your plants in and leave them untill they start to look in need of some ferts, use the what it says on the bottle and keep doing that. I read this somewhere and it said that you need to keep an eye on how the plants look, because you don't want to add too much, but to little will ruin all the work you've put in to it. So keep an eye on the plants and keep dosing with ferts when they look a bit droopy/sad.
> Somebody else will probably come along and correct what I've written, it's just what I read in an article.
> 
> I'd personaly go with ADA aqua soil capped with play sand. Because Aqua soil has iron in it and other stuff to keep your plants healthy, and if you dose regularly with ferts then it will stay fertile soil. Plus sand looks amazing and certain catfish prefer it because gravel damages their barbels.
> ...


An imbalance of ferts will lead to algae growth. I have used the estimative index method, using dry powders with liquid tropica plant nutrition...You can get the complete liquid fert form as tropica plant nutrition + I believe.
I've found ADA soil to be annoying...You can't disturb it at all or else it will let out a plume of crap.Eco-complete on the other hand I love, but I don't think it would suit the look you're going for.
You can get hair grass plants but from what I remember they're delicate and need high light.Big hardy plants such as amazon swords, onion plant, vallis etc are easy to keep and do great in low light - put a root tab underneath them and they will grow like weeds...How big is your tank?


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Hehe, I have 7 tanks running atm...Don't rush into things, plan it well and go slowly.Welcome To The UK Aquatic Plant Society is great.
> There's great pinned topics here:
> Planted Aquariums Resource Center - Tropical Fish Forums
> E.g make your own co2 system , Common hardy plants.
> You should try and make a moss wall, that would be awesome.


Have been reading those extensively, just prefer to ask all the noob questions here.

The tank is around 15 gallons I believe.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Amazon swords and Vallis, just what I'm after.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Have been reading those extensively, just prefer to ask all the noob questions here.
> 
> The tank is around 15 gallons I believe.


Ah I see...Yeah, the plants I just listed, scrap them.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Ah I see...Yeah, the plants I just listed, scrap them.


It's a square and that's a guess. They grow tall then I take it?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Amazon swords and Vallis, just what I'm after.


They will get too big dude...An amazon sword will eventually take up that whole tank...Plus, large plants in small tanks don't look the best.: victory:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> They will get too big dude...An amazon sword will eventually take up that whole tank...Plus, large plants in small tanks don't look the best.: victory:


Yeah, I'm thining of having only 2/3 species in one corner with some twisty manzanita wood emerging out of it or something. Nothing too over the top.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

*Vallisneria spiralis*- Beautiful plant with conspicuous transverse darker bands on the leaves, beauty, sturdiness and fast growing characters. Accepts all kind of waters. Does not require much light to maintain high growth rates. Height 30-35cm, Width 15-30cm, Light low-high, Temperature .. 15-30ºC, pH tolerance acid-neutral, Hardness tolerance … soft-hard. Easy plant to take care of. 

This should fit fine?


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Hmm it would:2thumb: I've kept it before.Just be careful not to bend it, because it doesn't bend:lol2:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

reptile_man_08 said:


> Hmm it would:2thumb: I've kept it before.Just be careful not to bend it, because it doesn't bend:lol2:


I could buy those ridiculously expensive trimming kits....or, like...a pair of scissors.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

Morgan Freeman said:


> I could buy those ridiculously expensive trimming kits....or, like...a pair of scissors.


Lol yeah, I got a cheap trimming kit from lidl once believe it or not.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Have you ever done a moss wall? Looks too long. I might just put some acrylic paint on the outside for now.


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

I have done moss/dwarf riccia carpets, no walls, but I guess it's pretty much the same thing.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Maybe if I ever did another tank I'd go for a moss carpet/wall, but not yet.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

I second TPN+, saves a lot of hastle and works really well. You could dose with easycarbo if you want... it's just a liquid form of CO2, and you still get really good results. 

When vallis grows long, it starts to lie across the top of the tank, and looks really good. It spreads by sending out runners, so just pull them out and it'll stay compact. 

You can get dwarf varieties of Echinodorus etc which stay smaller as well.

When you're buying plants I can honestly say get Aquafleur stock from Aquaessentials. It's award winning and the plants are better than the pictures they show you. Aquarium Plants | Tropical Plants | Tropical Tank Plants


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## reptile_man_08 (Jan 14, 2008)

You can't trim vallis, which is annoying, the leaves have to be pulled out of the stem.


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## hippyhaplos (Jan 12, 2010)

reptile_man_08 said:


> You can't trim vallis, which is annoying, the leaves have to be pulled out of the stem.


I know but personally like the length of it... and as long as it doesn't spread into the main of the tank, then I leave it be.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

We have a plan.


Cheers for all the help! Picking up the tank Sunday hopefully, will leave it running for a bit to get an idea of what temps it hits in my room etc and it gives me a chance to get everything I need ready.


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Getting it tomorrow.

FU** YEAH!.

Kinda wish it was empty and I could start from scratch without the ugly fish.


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## Skunk (Apr 11, 2010)

Good Luck with your tank. 

Not sure if this has been said, but in my lfs, I've seen cardinals get up to atleast 2" (in their not for sale trop showcase tank). Really beautiful!


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

How long does the water take to settle? :devil:


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