# A guy shouted at me when I had my Beardie out?



## Natonstan (Aug 9, 2008)

So today I was walking to my friends house with my beardie on my shouler and this guy walking past started telling me how wrong it is to keep reptiles as they should be left to live in the wild, so i told him that almost all pet reps are bred in captivity and don't know what the wild is, so he walked off swearing so I said " what was that, I didn't hear you , you had a cock in your mouth" and walked away :2thumb:


----------



## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

:? wrong section of the forum.

Personally I wouldn't walk my reptiles out side of my premises, so many things that could go wrong or happen. i.e beardie decides to jump off your shoulder. dog,car,faeces on the floor etc. Not to mention anti reptile keepers or just prats in general who may wish the animal harm.

My reptiles go in the garden supervised on warm days but that's it.
At the end of the day people will always have a difference of opinion. That's human nature. Yes you don't agree with it, but equally saying 'you had a C*%* in your mouth' isn't the best way to deal with it really is it? There would have been more mature ways to handle the situation.


----------



## fatratsandcheesekk (May 18, 2008)

nice one you do get people like that we had the same sort of thing when we took our rats down to our cub pack from the parents saying they belong dead or in the sewer

nice comment back though well done


----------



## llama_girl (Jul 6, 2008)

you're always going to get people like that...it's a shame but there will always be ignorant people about. best just to ignore them if they have already made up their minds that they don't agree with reps as pets.
it's lovely when people want to learn about them!


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

people like that dont realise how harsh and unforgiving reptiles natural habitat is..... our pampered pets live with almost no fear of predation.

which is surely a nice way live?


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

Moshpitviper said:


> people like that dont realise how harsh and unforgiving reptiles natural habitat is..... our pampered pets live with almost no fear of predation.
> 
> which is surely a nice way live?


I don't think 'fear' of predation exists within the reptile taxa as a daily cognitive experience.


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Buriram said:


> I don't think 'fear' of predation exists within the reptile taxa as a daily cognitive experience.


 
of course it does, if they had no fear they would just sit there in the open and let themselves get eaten.


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

wohic said:


> of course it does, if they had no fear they would just sit there in the open and let themselves get eaten.


No, you are incorrect. Their flight would be assumed to be assigned to cause and effect rather than a process assigned to the neo cortex. Endochrinology is the explanation for reaction to predation here rather than cognitive processing. It is inaccurate to assign the human condition to reptiles.


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Fear is not a condition that just humans feel though, In order to survive prey needs to feel fear, simple as that, and any way cause and effect does condition animals and people to fear things....without the cause and the effect there is no fear.hense the animal in captivity has no cause to feel fearful.......

It actually annoys me when people say dont put Human emotions on to animals they do not feel emotion ...how the hell does anyone know that for sure ?


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

wohic said:


> Fear is not a condition that just humans feel though, In order to survive prey needs to feel fear, simple as that, and any way cause and effect does condition animals and people to fear things....without the cause and the effect there is no fear.hense the animal in captivity has no cause to feel fearful.......
> 
> It actually annoys me when people say dont put Human emotions on to animals they do not feel emotion ...how the hell does anyone know that for sure ?


Extensive MRI research shows that there is no neo cortal response in this species that indicates any cognitive response to threat or reward. Flight is caused by endochrinal shift. This translates to stress - but not 'human stress' where the brain would be stimulated by 'thought'. 'Fear' is an innappropriate word to use in this situation as it implies cognitive processing which is not indeed taking place. Chemical production and translation is the key in this case. How the hell does anyone know? ... radio waves across coordinate areas of the brain (as opposed to x-rays).


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

wohic said:


> Fear is not a condition that just humans feel though, In order to survive prey needs to feel fear, simple as that, and any way cause and effect does condition animals and people to fear things....without the cause and the effect there is no fear.hense the animal in captivity has no cause to feel fearful.......
> 
> It actually annoys me when people say dont put Human emotions on to animals they do not feel emotion ...how the hell does anyone know that for sure ?


I do agree that there are taxa that employ cognitive processes similar to our own as regards fear and reward and so it isn't only humans who feel fear. There is also evidence of cultures across certain populations of species (at the interspecies level). However, a bearded dragon need not and indeed does not feel fear in order to avoid predation.


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

wohic said:


> Fear is not a condition that just humans feel though, In order to survive prey needs to feel fear, simple as that, and any way cause and effect does condition animals and people to fear things....without the cause and the effect there is no fear.hense the animal in captivity has no cause to feel fearful.......
> 
> It actually annoys me when people say dont put Human emotions on to animals they do not feel emotion ...how the hell does anyone know that for sure ?


In asking the above question ('... how does anyone know that for sure?), I suspect the true semantics behind this take the form of a statement ... something like - 'I do not believe that anyone knows this for sure'. If however the question was genuine, then I hope I have answered it for you and you now have a little knowledge on the subject.


----------



## bampoisongirl (Mar 28, 2008)

walking to ur friends house with ur beardie on ur shoulder? thats irresponsible imo.

as for the guy not evry1 understands


----------



## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

bampoisongirl said:


> walking to ur friends house with ur beardie on ur shoulder? thats irresponsible imo.
> 
> as for the guy not evry1 understands


I agree. It also sounds like you were asking for a reaction.


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

bampoisongirl said:


> walking to ur friends house with ur beardie on ur shoulder? thats irresponsible imo.
> 
> as for the guy not evry1 understands


I think the law states that everyone has the right to walk without encountering a non native / exotic species - not stated that way obviously but the original wording amounts to the same - so this could actually be illegal. To be honest I agree with legislation like that.


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

So if thats the case then everytime i walk my dogs im breaking the law hey cos they aint native to this country 

sorry but thats just daft i take my skunk out allover with me so is that illegal too ? 

funny cos i aint ever been arreseted for it an have had a few police officers say hello to him too


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

Emmaj said:


> So if thats the case then everytime i walk my dogs im breaking the law hey cos they aint native to this country
> 
> sorry but thats just daft i take my skunk out allover with me so is that illegal too ?
> 
> funny cos i aint ever been arreseted for it an have had a few police officers say hello to him too


I think this only applies to non-domesticated animals - so dogs are ok. Yes I actually do believe that taking the skunk out in public would be covered by that law ... whether police would be aware of that or not is another issue lol.......... (let's be right, they don't arrest people for a lot of things they should do)? I don't think you would ever actually be arrested for it unless you bumped into the wildlife liason officer!!!! As usual the legislation is ambiguous and open to multiple translation.


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Buriram said:


> I think this only applies to non-domesticated animals - so dogs are ok. Yes I actually do believe that taking the skunk out in public would be covered by that law ... whether police would be aware of that or not is another issue lol.......... (let's be right, they don't arrest people for a lot of things they should do)? I don't think you would ever actually be arrested for it unless you bumped into the wildlife liason officer!!!! As usual the legislation is ambiguous and open to multiple translation.


Hmmmm well wether skunks are not native to the country or not they are and can be just as domecticated as dogs or cats 

I dont see the harm in taking pets out with you as long as you do it safely and you aint a prat


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

Emmaj said:


> Hmmmm well wether skunks are not native to the country or not they are and can be just as domecticated as dogs or cats
> 
> I dont see the harm in taking pets out with you as long as you do it safely and you aint a prat


I agree with you. Skunks make really good pets and I am sure in the next few years they will become as domesticated as more commonly held mammals. They do seem to get pleasure also from new surroundings and interactions with people (who are not prats)! I think you may enhance a skunk's life by 'taking it out' occasionally but as regards a bearded dragon, I can only see 'costs' incurred for the animal by 'taking it out'.


----------



## Starshine Tara (Jun 22, 2008)

Buriram said:


> In asking the above question ('... how does anyone know that for sure?), I suspect the true semantics behind this take the form of a statement ... something like - 'I do not believe that anyone knows this for sure'. If however the question was genuine, then I hope I have answered it for you and you now have a little knowledge on the subject.


That didn't sound very arrogant or pedantic now, did it??

:roll2:

Tara xxx


----------



## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Yeah not the smartest thing in the world to do. After sunning himself for like 10 mins my beardie used to charge in one direction until he met an obstacle and then try his hardest to get under or through it. What if yours had leap from your shoulder right under a car or bike or down a drain!!!!!!

Be smart!!

Marina


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

Starshine Tara said:


> That didn't sound very arrogant or pedantic now did it??
> 
> :roll2:
> 
> Tara xxx


Yeah I think it did and I wrote it! Agreed!


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

Buriram said:


> Extensive MRI research shows that there is no neo cortal response in this species that indicates any cognitive response to threat or reward. Flight is caused by endochrinal shift. This translates to stress - but not 'human stress' where the brain would be stimulated by 'thought'. 'Fear' is an innappropriate word to use in this situation as it implies cognitive processing which is not indeed taking place. Chemical production and translation is the key in this case. How the hell does anyone know? ... radio waves across coordinate areas of the brain (as opposed to x-rays).


My sincerest apologies for using the wrong wording.... i shall retire this evening with a thesaurus and repost.:lol2:


----------



## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

Somebody turned up at the school where I work carrying a large snake, clearly just to show off. Some people are terrified of snakes and I thought it was an incredibly irresponsible thing to do - and I believe there is a law about it as has been previously mentioned. I don't think people should be wandering around carrying reptiles, purely for the safety of the animal. 

I have taken snakes and a parrot to work, but have always kept them suitably contained/harnessed (for their comfort and safety), and made sure everybody knew they would be in my room before the event in case anybody had fears or phobias.

I think walking around with a skunk is slightly different - not what people expect to see sure - but unlikely to terrify people, or put the animal at risk.

I'll have to have a google and see what the law says, I'm sure there is one about it.


----------



## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

have to agree with whats already been said here, its not like a skunk and a rep are the same, reps can suffer from slight temp changes too, skunks arnt so prone though. i feel a reps in alot more danger than a skunk, 100 percent,

JMO

Joe


----------



## llama_girl (Jul 6, 2008)

my OH used to take his iguana our for rep education days at western park to help people learn and understand about reps and other exotic pets. isthis wrong and illegal then?


----------



## MrsP (Apr 13, 2008)

I think that's completely different to wandering around randomly with a reptile for the sake of it.


----------



## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

MrsP said:


> I think that's completely different to wandering around randomly with a reptile for the sake of it.


Completely agree


----------



## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

Buriram said:


> I think the law states that everyone has the right to walk without encountering a non native / exotic species - not stated that way obviously but the original wording amounts to the same - so this could actually be illegal. To be honest I agree with legislation like that.


Okay, my two cents worth is as follows:

With regard to the possible carelessness of the owner in bringing his beardie outside, and the possible dangers it could have encountered as mentioned (dogs, disease, bolting from his shoulder) that was his decision and it may have been negligent but it's his choice regardless. 

With regard to any kind of legislation that entitles someone to walk in public without encountering a non native or exotic species, whether or not this is true I think it's absolute bollocks. Realistically, what harm is a bearded dragon or a skunk going to do to a random passerby? Exotic or not, I would much rather encounter a harmless, if odd-looking, creature than a big dog that's had a bad owner and is aggressive. Hardly a day goes by when you don't hear about a 'normal', 'domestic' animal attacking a toddler or killing a smaller dog, yet this seems to be perfectly legal.

IMO, anyone who gives someone grief for bringing their pet out in public is full of s:censor:. Everyone can have an opinion but as far as I know, everyone has a right to go about their business without being harrassed, especially if they are not causing harm or offence to others. 

I think most people would have a problem with a vegan going up to a small child and telling them that their ice cream is actually cow's mucus and that they are contributing to global warming and animal cruelty. Why don't they have a problem with someone giving a beardie owner grief for bringing his pet outside? It beggars belief, the double standards in this world...:whistling2:


----------



## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Katiexx said:


> Completely agree


i have 2 of the biggest tameist igs ever..love sitting on my shoulder and being stroked.


----------



## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

In my opinion it is not about the rights of the owner that is at question. It is the rights of the animal that are the issue.
As an animal keeper domestic and exotics, the safety and well being of my animals is paramount, as far as I am concerned the animal has a right to be cared for in the appropriate manner at all times.. 
A Bearded Dragon requires a very high temp, taking it outside is not condusive to this, as already mentioned all other factors such as safety have to be taken into account. What if some low life decided to attack the owner and harm / kill the animal, and it does happen. If you want to take a reptile to a friends place it a suitable container.
Please dont tell me that the person who decides to don a large snake as a scarf and take it for a walk is not looking for attention. There is absolutely no benefit to the snake or the Bearded Dragon for that matter. If you tell me they are getting natural sunlight, do it in the garden and in a control enviroment.

The keeping exoctic animals is becoming more and more pressured and we all have to show that we are a responsible group who take the welfare of the animals we care for seriously, these acts in my opinion do not help.

Best Wishes


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Grumpymouth said:


> Okay, my two cents worth is as follows:
> 
> With regard to the possible carelessness of the owner in bringing his beardie outside, and the possible dangers it could have encountered as mentioned (dogs, disease, bolting from his shoulder) that was his decision and it may have been negligent but it's his choice regardless.
> 
> ...


 

yay well said lol 

plus anyways if we were in america then skunks are seen wandering the streets and in gardens every evening or night 

when i take mine out he has a harness and lead on and i carry him as will do the same with Siku when he has had his jabs too 

its just plain ignorance from people and lack of understanding in some cases 

i have just got back from a wander down to the vets with havoc least they were pleased to see him hey :lol2:


----------



## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

MrsP said:


> I think that's completely different to wandering around randomly with a reptile for the sake of it.


Indeed it is very different.

Marina


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

I agree with everyones opinions on this my case is being argued about taking my skunk out 

but as said previously i would never have taken one of my reptiles out of the house with being in an appropriate container for safety 

even when i have been transporting reptiles i have always taken a suitable container with me or asked for one if i didnt have one 


i totally agree with the fact that if you take a huge snake out looking like a scarf round your neck tbh its for the wrong reasons there is a time and place for everything and so many people have phobias of snakes and lizards that your near always gonna get an unpositive reaction to them so why go through that or put the animal you love through that


----------



## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> I agree with everyones opinions on this my case is being argued about taking my skunk out
> 
> but as said previously i would never have taken one of my reptiles out of the house with being in an appropriate container for safety
> 
> ...



i used to do herp education days at museums etc, and people always came back to see the igs...and i showed them fotos of cute little ones but explained how big they get, nasty etc and how much hard work it was with mine...so they learnt not just to buy on impulse..etc 

people know me on my estate as the iggyman...and people always come to me for advice, yeah seen people with pythons around the next wanting attention..

our resce bd is from a girl who used to take hers out everywhere, it was happy, got out and about...but everyone is differant


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

cooljules said:


> i used to do herp education days at museums etc, and people always came back to see the igs...and i showed them fotos of cute little ones but explained how big they get, nasty etc and how much hard work it was with mine...so they learnt not just to buy on impulse..etc
> 
> people know me on my estate as the iggyman...and people always come to me for advice, yeah seen people with pythons around the next wanting attention..
> 
> our resce bd is from a girl who used to take hers out everywhere, it was happy, got out and about...but everyone is differant


 
but there are difference's like you say im sure as hell your very carefull when you take any of your reps out even the ones that your showing for education purposes 

there are many people out there that would just go out an buy a rep cos it looked cool seeing the guy walk down the street with one on his shoulder too 

it just gives idiots more reason to own animals they know nothing about and dont care to know nothing about cos they wanna look cool walking round with it on thier shoulder 

no not everyones like that but a large number of people are


----------



## DazedLewis (Aug 21, 2008)

When I was taking my beardy back from my local reptile shop cos he had a bad foot and we were checking it out, a boy saw the beardy and was really interested. He was like 'What is it!  Can I hold it?  Oh wowwwww XD'

Of course I let him hold it and he was over the moon, it makes you feel good when you know there's a constant supply of reptile lovers out there


----------



## Grumpymouth (Jun 28, 2007)

I want to make it clear that my earlier comment about the owner being abused wasn't in defence of his actions for taking his animal out, as I said, I agreed that some harm may come to it, but just the attitude of those who don't think owners have a right to bring their exotics outside. From what I gathered, the person who spoke to the beardie owner wasn't a fellow keeper who scolded him for bringing his animal out on a cold day or busy area where a dog might spook it, but rather an uninformed busybody who made a blanket statement that reptiles aren't meant to be kept in captivity.

Furthermore, I was also speaking in regard to EmmaJ's recent encounter at her local post office where she was spoken down to by someone who just said her skunk stank, and seemed disgusted at its very existence, not concerned for the animal's welfare. This has been debated on that thread, but I am in agreement that if the decision to bring an animal outside is well measured and thought out, there is no reason why someone should be abused for it. I'm not a dog person, but I don't go up to dog owners and rant about the potential threat of having their animal in public, even if it were one of the 'dangerous dogs' you read about.

I fully intend to take Ben out on a harness when he's old enough, and I am not afraid of any comments I will undoubtedly receive. As others have mentioned on here, you might receive ten nasty comments for every kind or inquisitive one, but education is the only way to help open people's eyes.


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Grumpymouth said:


> I want to make it clear that my earlier comment about the owner being abused wasn't in defence of his actions for taking his animal out, as I said, I agreed that some harm may come to it, but just the attitude of those who don't think owners have a right to bring their exotics outside. From what I gathered, the person who spoke to the beardie owner wasn't a fellow keeper who scolded him for bringing his animal out on a cold day or busy area where a dog might spook it, but rather an uninformed busybody who made a blanket statement that reptiles aren't meant to be kept in captivity.
> 
> Furthermore, I was also speaking in regard to EmmaJ's recent encounter at her local post office where she was spoken down to by someone who just said her skunk stank, and seemed disgusted at its very existence, not concerned for the animal's welfare. This has been debated on that thread, but I am in agreement that if the decision to bring an animal outside is well measured and thought out, there is no reason why someone should be abused for it. I'm not a dog person, but I don't go up to dog owners and rant about the potential threat of having their animal in public, even if it were one of the 'dangerous dogs' you read about.
> 
> I fully intend to take Ben out on a harness when he's old enough, and I am not afraid of any comments I will undoubtedly receive. As others have mentioned on here, you might receive ten nasty comments for every kind or inquisitive one, but education is the only way to help open people's eyes.


 
I knew what ya mean my fellow come backer :lol2:

but yeah thats what i was arguing about to in the exotic lines.........skunks and taking them out in public in my eyes i dont see it being any different to walking a dog a cat or a ferret for that fact on a harness


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

kodakira said:


> in my opinion it is not about the rights of the owner that is at question. It is the rights of the animal that are the issue.
> As an animal keeper domestic and exotics, the safety and well being of my animals is paramount, as far as i am concerned the animal has a right to be cared for in the appropriate manner at all times..
> A bearded dragon requires a very high temp, taking it outside is not condusive to this, as already mentioned all other factors such as safety have to be taken into account. What if some low life decided to attack the owner and harm / kill the animal, and it does happen. If you want to take a reptile to a friends place it a suitable container.
> Please dont tell me that the person who decides to don a large snake as a scarf and take it for a walk is not looking for attention. There is absolutely no benefit to the snake or the bearded dragon for that matter. If you tell me they are getting natural sunlight, do it in the garden and in a control enviroment.
> ...


 well said


----------



## Buriram (Jul 17, 2006)

llama_girl said:


> my OH used to take his iguana our for rep education days at western park to help people learn and understand about reps and other exotic pets. isthis wrong and illegal then?


I would say 'wrong' in the sense that only costs can be created for the animal, however probably 'right' in the sense that benefits may be created via education for the species. Not illegal presuming the attendees were fore warned.


----------

