# Fake rock sealant



## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi guys, Ive been working on a fake rock build for a long while now and only just started to pick it back up. All the grouting and painting is done but I'm a little stumped as to what I should use for a sealant and how many coats?? 

Ive been told to use Pva as its cheap and non toxic, but I'm not sure if it's going to give me the effect I want. 

What have other people used??!


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

Depends what environment it's for, but I wouldn't really reccommend PVA as when it gets wet it just becomes like glue again. 

I can reccommend Thompson's Water seal. It's for protecting bricks and concrete etc. so it's good on top of grout. It's got a matt finish and I've had no trouble with the humidity in my CWD viv damaging it.

If it's a really wet viv though or for a water area you will need a proper pond sealer.


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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry I should have made that a little clearer  

It's for a desert style background for my beardie so I need something hard and durable. I've read up that Matt floor varnish is good. Would you reccomend? 

Thanks


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Matt floor varnish is a good option thats often used, and I can personally reccomend it too. Another way that i've yet to try, but which has recieved positive ratings, is the use of epoxy resin with a colouring agent and texturing agent mixed in i.e. the resin with sand and epoxy colourant.

Hope this helps

Dave


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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks, that's a great help! I think I'm gonna go for the matt floor varnish. Im gonna go over the whole thing with a sprinkle of sand too after a layer or two. 

How many layers do you think would be suitable? and should I water it down?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

As its for a beardie I would put at least three or four undiluted coats on, with the second to last coat being mixed with sand for texture. This should be enough to prevent the beardies claws destroying your work of art :lol2:

Dave


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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

I think what ill be doing is putting more coats on the walkways rather than the walls and other parts. Ive got so many tight gaps that even the painting was a pain in the back side. So I dont want to go down that route again. 

But if you want to check it out 
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/habitat/671636-fake-rock-build-my-first.html

Thats my build, its pretty poor and only a first attempt.


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

You need something really strong for beardies cause some will shred fake rock backgrounds. Yacht varnish is meant to be the best thing to use. Its not cheap but you should only need one coat and it will also make it water tight to give it a good once over with the ole F10 disinfectant every so often. 

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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

I just read your build thread and think you did a really good job especially for a first attempt. I'm in the middle of drawing up a new machu picchu design for one of my leos and can totally sympathize with the annount of time and frustration these things take whilst waiting for the various layers to dry. I noticed you were having a few issues getting paint into the smaller crevises, the best way I have found to paint these larger projects is to use cheap pressurised spray bottles from the diy store. Mix your paints about 4-5 shades pours them in the bottles and away you go. You can cover a large surface area really quickly and because you can adjust how fine you want the paint to mist you get a nice thin layer which reduces drying time between coats. Once you've got your desired effect you can then dry brush any shade or highlights you want then your good to seal. 
This is the sort of spray bottle I mean, they are about £1 in B&Q or similar store









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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

Floor varnish tends to be more durable than yacht varnish, yacht varnish is generally advised for it's known ability to seal moisture out, but in an arid viv this isn't hugely necessary as it'll dry very rapidly after misting or cleaning. Finding a matt finish yach varnish is nigh on impossible as well, whereas matt finish floor varnishes are much more common (although generally only made by the likes of ronseal, and therefore quite expensive)

Dave


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

my_shed said:


> Floor varnish tends to be more durable than yacht varnish, yacht varnish is generally advised for it's known ability to seal moisture out, but in an arid viv this isn't hugely necessary as it'll dry very rapidly after misting or cleaning. Finding a matt finish yach varnish is nigh on impossible as well, whereas matt finish floor varnishes are much more common (although generally only made by the likes of ronseal, and therefore quite expensive)
> 
> Dave


Cool! 
Learn something new everyday. Might give the floor varnish a go on my machu picchu then. I don't like the slightly shiney finish you get with the yacht varnish and pva ect but its generally easily overcome with sand. I'm no expert with these fake rock backgrounds I've just been testing some techniques out this past fortnight. Thanks for the heads up 

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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

LovLight said:


> I just read your build thread and think you did a really good job especially for a first attempt. I'm in the middle of drawing up a new machu picchu design for one of my leos and can totally sympathize with the annount of time and frustration these things take whilst waiting for the various layers to dry. I noticed you were having a few issues getting paint into the smaller crevises, the best way I have found to paint these larger projects is to use cheap pressurised spray bottles from the diy store. Mix your paints about 4-5 shades pours them in the bottles and away you go. You can cover a large surface area really quickly and because you can adjust how fine you want the paint to mist you get a nice thin layer which reduces drying time between coats. Once you've got your desired effect you can then dry brush any shade or highlights you want then your good to seal.
> This is the sort of spray bottle I mean, they are about £1 in B&Q or similar storeimage
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2



Cheers for the advise, do you think i could use this for the varnish/sealant?


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

I'd be a little wary, as it may dry quickly in the tubes and block, but there again they only cost a quid so maybe a worthwhile experiment :whistling2:

Dave


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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

my_shed said:


> I'd be a little wary, as it may dry quickly in the tubes and block, but there again they only cost a quid so maybe a worthwhile experiment :whistling2:
> 
> Dave



That's a good point, however the bottle may only cost a quid but the varnish doesnt  Ive got a big build to cover. Just checked on the B&Q website £40 for a big tub of varnish :censor:


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

If it would be possible to slightly dilute the varnish like you would with pva it could well work. Be a case of reading the small print on the tin and maybe trying out a small amount. There is a brilliant video series on youtube of a guy who makes backgrounds for those model train set ups in the same way. If I can find it I'll try and put a link up for you because he does varnish that way I just can't remember what he uses to do it, I'll go have a route around and see if I can find it. 

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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

LovLight said:


> If it would be possible to slightly dilute the varnish like you would with pva it could well work. Be a case of reading the small print on the tin and maybe trying out a small amount. There is a brilliant video series on youtube of a guy who makes backgrounds for those model train set ups in the same way. If I can find it I'll try and put a link up for you because he does varnish that way I just can't remember what he uses to do it, I'll go have a route around and see if I can find it.
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2



That would be amazing if you could  Thank you! :flrt:


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Well I've found the one showing the paint technique, for some reason its not letting me link? But it's on youtube as 'Painting Rock Faces Using Acrylic Washes' by RMS55, still looking for the varnishing one, sorry bout the lack of link its probably me as I'm not very good at intyweb thingys 

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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

LovLight said:


> Well I've found the one showing the paint technique, for some reason its not letting me link? But it's on youtube as 'Painting Rock Faces Using Acrylic Washes' by RMS55, still looking for the varnishing one, sorry bout the lack of link its probably me as I'm not very good at intyweb thingys
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2



That's great thanks  :no1:


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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

Ok, That guy in the youtube vid really knows what he's doing. Its not even finished and it looks amazing ..... 

Painting Rock Faces Using Acrylic Washes - YouTube

I wish i had found this out before i started!!


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

I've found this one about sealing a beardie viv and she's using some sort of may varnish. Looks pretty good so check it out. 
'Part 4(final) Grand Canyon Vivarium Background' by Beckywheeler
Hope they help 

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## Depalmer (Mar 29, 2011)

LovLight said:


> I've found this one about sealing a beardie viv and she's using some sort of may varnish. Looks pretty good so check it out.
> 'Part 4(final) Grand Canyon Vivarium Background' by Beckywheeler
> Hope they help
> 
> Sent from my U8180 using Tapatalk 2



I think I've seen that one before, she does a really good tutorial, but you cant compete with her painting when her husband is an airbrush artist :lol2:


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

I believe you can thin water based varnish with plain old water, but you're also able to thin oil based varnish with paint thinner. It used to be stocked along with brush cleaner and white spirit, i'm not sure if its still around. Will look now

Dave


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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

A quick google has shown that white spirit can be used to dilute oil based varnish 

May now have to try ths myself, good timesaver if it works out


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Depalmer said:


> I think I've seen that one before, she does a really good tutorial, but you cant compete with her painting when her husband is an airbrush artist :lol2:


Lucky her! Wonder if she loans him out to dandels in distress at painting machu picchu? 

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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

my_shed said:


> A quick google has shown that white spirit can be used to dilute oil based varnish
> 
> May now have to try ths myself, good timesaver if it works out


That's brilliant! Would be a HUUUGE time saver on these bigger projects 

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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

Did your google search give any indication as to ratios of dilution? Or is it a trial and error job? 

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## my_shed (Jan 5, 2011)

No info as to ratios, but i was thinking........(headache) that since white spirit breaks down varnish, if i try undiluted to start with, if it doesn't spray very well, i could just clean the nozzles out with white spirits then dilute a bit n try again. And again. And again....... and hopefully get it rite without it taking longer than it would actually have taken with a brush :lol2:

Now i've just got to tear myself away from gorrilla glue (my new BIG thing of the year) long enough to do another poly and grout creation. The missus will be pleased........not!!

Dave


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## LovLight (Apr 14, 2012)

I think I'm the only girl who gets bannished to the shed lol, that space board don't half make a mess!  Good plan with the white spirits cleaning solution btw 

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