# DWAL Public Liability insurance



## @Rebekah.123 (Jul 12, 2019)

Hello, 

Currently going through my DWAL application & it has asked for PL insurance for up to 1million £.
I contacted afew different companies (Exotics direct etc) & none are offering insurance anymore.
Has anyone been able to get insurance elsewhere? 

Thanks for any help.


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## GT2540 (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm with exotic's direct??
admittedly I have been with them 27 years


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## @Rebekah.123 (Jul 12, 2019)

When I contacted exotics direct they said they aren’t taking any new policies out & once the current polices run out they won’t be renewing? 
And I haven’t any had luck with any other insurance companies.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

I have heard this from quite a few DWA keepers now, unfortunately I have not yet heard of a solution. I am not a DWA keeper, but if I hear anything I will report back.


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## python747 (8 mo ago)

I am with cliverton insurance and they are the same. It's down to the FCA underwriters cutting out us as consumers. They will only provide insurance for buissness that take money from a third party. And under the dangerous wild animals act we need to have insurance to issue a licence to us. Myself and a few buddies have ours expire in September so if we can't get it we have to get rid of our animals listed under the act. I am still waiting for a solution and nothing has come up as of yet. This has been going on since January.


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## frogeyed (Nov 8, 2012)

python747 said:


> I am with cliverton insurance and they are the same. It's down to the FCA underwriters cutting out us as consumers. They will only provide insurance for buissness that take money from a third party. And under the dangerous wild animals act we need to have insurance to issue a licence to us. Myself and a few buddies have ours expire in September so if we can't get it we have to get rid of our animals listed under the act. I am still waiting for a solution and nothing has come up as of yet. This has been going on since January.


Thing is, in the unfortunate event that you have to get rid of your animals, who is going to take them if private individuals cannot get insurance ?


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## python747 (8 mo ago)

Zoo's might take things like crocs, bison, tigers etc but nobody will take venomous snakes as they have to keep antivenin on a zoo licence. So if nobody can take them then it does say in the Dangerous Wild Animals ACT 1976 that they can be taken out of the premises and euthanised.


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## python747 (8 mo ago)

It unfortunately affects the entire hobby and everyone will only get 8 weeks notice before there current insurance policy ends.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

python747 said:


> It unfortunately affects the entire hobby and everyone will only get 8 weeks notice before there current insurance policy ends.


You need to speak to the licensing officer. This is something out of your hands. At the time of taking ownership of your animals you did so quite lawfully. 
The issue is the legislation, which requires you to have public liability insurance. However, if since complying with that, there is no longer any company providing the insurance then this is out of your hands. You have a right under the Human Rights Act to peaceful enjoyment of possessions. As you legally possessed them and the decision by companies to stop providing policies for DWAA animals is out of your hands, I would argue that the law no longer is fit for purpose. Your licensing officer needs to work with you to find a solution.
Some other members have said that their provider will continue to provide cover for existing customers, they just won't take new customers. Have you explored this with your provider?


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## python747 (8 mo ago)

ian14 said:


> You need to speak to the licensing officer. This is something out of your hands. At the time of taking ownership of your animals you did so quite lawfully.
> The issue is the legislation, which requires you to have public liability insurance. However, if since complying with that, there is no longer any company providing the insurance then this is out of your hands. You have a right under the Human Rights Act to peaceful enjoyment of possessions. As you legally possessed them and the decision by companies to stop providing policies for DWAA animals is out of your hands, I would argue that the law no longer is fit for purpose. Your licensing officer needs to work with you to find a solution.
> Some other members have said that their provider will continue to provide cover for existing customers, they just won't take new customers. Have you explored this with your provider?



Hi Ian. thanks for the info. I have contacted my officer and pretty much they have said with no insurance we are not covered if the animals escape and under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976. It does say that without the insurance they cant renew the licence. I am going to contact my local MP to discuss the situation for like you said I haven't broken any laws when buying the animals and I have always remained legislative.


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## Hoxton (Jun 3, 2020)

Anyone got an update on this? I'm looking to get my insurance at the moment, tried Exoticsdirect, Cliverton and LRMS. No go for any of them.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Just found a company called LMRS Insurance, looks like they might provide cover??


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## Hoxton (Jun 3, 2020)

ian14 said:


> Just found a company called LMRS Insurance, looks like they might provide cover??


Phoned them last month and got a no. If anyone hears anything different from them that'd be great to know.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have asked LRMS why they have changed their stance


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Whilst not a DWAL holder, I am horrified by the implications of the insurance issues.
I will be making some enquiries with DEFRA


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Can I ask that if this is affecting you and you are in the Bucks\Berks\Oxon area to pm me, with the problems you have had with insurance.
This clearly will be wider spread but this is my sphere of influence.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Out of interest, what have the FBH done to help with this??


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

If insurers won’t provide any cover, this will cease what I assumed was a reasonable licensing system?

Could AR extremists have been lobbying the insurance industry?

I don’t keep any DWA, but I think there should be a right to, within reason, and providing the keepers take suitable and sufficient measures for welfare and safety.


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## Hoxton (Jun 3, 2020)

ian14 said:


> Out of interest, what have the FBH done to help with this??


I've had a look around and can't see any comment from them. Will shoot an email over.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

As far as I am aware this is being looked into by the FBH. Often no news doesn't mean inactivity, just no news is better than bad news. 
Not all societies/federations/people have time to post hourly social media updates. Comment not aimed at anyone in particular, just often I think people assume social media presence is the key, when in reality it's often a waste of time.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I know a guy up here in Scotland that has been forced to give up his venomous snakes because of the lack of cover being offered - very sad.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> I know a guy up here in Scotland that has been forced to give up his venomous snakes because of the lack of cover being offered - very sad.


Indeed.
And there should be no reason for this at all.


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

Chaz at Snakes 'n Adders has today posted a video on Facebook highlighting this issue which may help make it more widely known. Given the extreme rarity (if not complete lack of) pay outs under this insurance one would hope that there might be someone able to provide a solution, somewhere.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

wow - what a car crash ... I was like ten years with Exotics Direct and shocking to see what is happening in the hobby ...


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## james.price (9 mo ago)

For the little that its worth, i have just written a letter to my local MP. 

I am not a DWA keeper but our hearts go out to you.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Not sure if this is any help, it was one Google threw up in a search









Exotic Animal and Zoo Insurance - LRMS Insurance Services






www.lrms.co.uk





Claims to cover anything from tigers to lizards. If they can't cover a private collection maybe they can direct anyone needing insurance for DWA to a company who can.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Good find ...


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## @Rebekah.123 (Jul 12, 2019)

Unfortunately this company doesn’t offer cover for private DWAL holders. Said they are receiving a huge amount of calls, but can’t offer anything or advised where to try next.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be interested to know WHY this has suddenly happened. I'm not aware of a single incident in which a private keeper had a specimen that 1) escaped 2) made its way into a public space or someone's home that 3) went on to injure a member of the public. 
I would have thought that any policy would literally be pure profit for the insurer!!


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## NickN (11 mo ago)

My (hopefully incorrect) suspicion would be that the companies have been "got at" by certain anti organisations and have caved into the strident and threatening voices of a tiny and extreme minority. Which of course they see as the mere beginning of an eventual ban on anyone owning captive animals of any kind, even where doing so would prevent complete extinction.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Ian, I'm guessing that anyone who had a policy from a company and then found that at the time of renewal the company no longer offered cover, the first question would be "Why?" I agree with you that from a business point of view it's really money for old rope for the companies as (you would hope) keepers of DWA registered animals will be more stringent when it comes to maintaining the security of the animal. The media are quick to circulate reports of when a cornsnake or royal have escaped or been found, you can bet they would be even quicker if the animal was one on the DWA list, more so if some poor member of the public was injured or dies as a result. Yet no such reports (AFAIK) of this happening, at least not recently.

Maybe Nick's assumption has some merit...you never know what methods these anti's deploy. It does seem strange that it's several companies and not just one. I don't know, but could there have been some changes into legislation which makes administering such a policy un-economical given how few the customer base may be for each company ?

If it was some nobbling / lobbying from the anti's what do they expect would happen? - it then means the owner is effectively keeping a DWA registered species illegally as it contravenes the terms of the licence, so presumably the only options would be rehome in what would turn out to be a swamped market as all the zoo's etc that have commercial licencing would be approached, or have the collection destroyed, which is the opposite of what these so called anti's stand for, and certainly doesn't protect the animals involved.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

There was an article about this in The Sunday Telegraph a few weeks ago. It mentioned Chris Newman so might well be worth contacting him.


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## LiasisUK (Sep 30, 2019)

Also contact the FBH about it as it is something they are very aware of and looking into.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

NickN said:


> My (hopefully incorrect) suspicion would be that the companies have been "got at" by certain anti organisations and have caved into the strident and threatening voices of a tiny and extreme minority. Which of course they see as the mere beginning of an eventual ban on anyone owning captive animals of any kind, even where doing so would prevent complete extinction.


That was the only explanation I could come up with too.


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## Pirate7 (Apr 7, 2008)

Out of curiousity, has anything happened with this yet or is it simply just dead in the water and all DWA keepers had to give up their animals?


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