# Shubunkin lifeless / advice request



## markiemark (Jan 25, 2010)

I have a Shubunkin which has been sitting at the bottom of the tank for days now, does not move and looking generally tired of life. It is not dead as I am able to observe some gill contraction, but it is not strong.

I have completed a 30% water change to see if that would perk it up, to no avail.

My experience with tropical fish would persuade me that the fish is not long for this world. My inclination is to euthanase it, unless anyone has any other ideas


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## Raych (Mar 1, 2010)

Shubunkins are pond fish and should be kept at room temperature. In a large tank, and from what I've heard should be kept with company too. They need about 15 gallons to themselves.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

shubunkins need a lot of tank space, at least 20-25 gallons per fish. they also need at least 1 friend as they are social fish as all goldfish are. if your tank is less than 45 gallons for 2 they are overstocked, or stunted, or if its alone they can simply pine away and refuse to eat from being lonely.

if it were mine, and it had been sitting on the bottom without eating for several days, and hasnt perked up after a water change, i would euthanise.

the most humane way of euthanisia is using clove oil, its around £3 a bottle from boots, easy to come by as its used for tooth ache. its used as an anaesthetic (sorry for spelling!) but in high doses can be used for humane euthanasia. take a clean rinsed bottle, add a small amount of tank water, add 10 drops of clove oil, put the lid on the bottle and shake vigourously until the water turns a milky white colour. take the fish from the tank and put it in a tub/bowl with just enough tank water to cover its body upright. add a small amount of the oil/water mix. let it sit for 5 mins, the fish should drift off and lay on its side with its breathing slowed. if after 5 mins its still upright and moves when you touch the bowl or the fish, add a small amount more of the oil/water mix. let it sit another 5 mins. when the fish is asleep, laying on its side with no movement when you touch it, then add the rest of the mixture to the bowl. when you see no more gill movement the fish should be gone. beware, if you flush the fish, it is possible it may come round if you havent added enough oil mix before or not left it long enough. i always freeze my fish after ive cloved them just to be 100%. i then throw them in the bin as flushing is a bad idea.

simply freezing the fish is inhumane as unlike in tropical fish, the water may not kill them instantly, and no fish should ever be put in the freezer while conscious, it will die a slow death. flushing them alive is a definate no-no as they will die slowing from poisoning down in the drains.

another humane way is to decapitate them, a sharp knife, a swift cut to remove the head, ive never wanted to or needed to as ive always had clove oil on hand, but if you have the steady hand and arent grossed out by it, ive heard its as humane as clove oil. personally i dont think so as you would need to stress the fish to start with by handling them out of water.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

I agree. Once they reach that stage it's unlikely that it will recover. I have used clove oil effectively before, but in an emergency or if I don't want to wait till the next day to get some I'm more inclined to use a knife to the skull or a swift blow to the head for a smaller fish.


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## markiemark (Jan 25, 2010)

*Rip*

Sadly I think you are right and Shubunkin iS to be E'd.

Some intereSting poStS on methodS.
MY fiSh Shop recommendS boiling water to the back of the head for inStant kill, but the clove oil idea SoundS much more gentle, I think I might try thiS in future.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

markiemark said:


> Sadly I think you are right and Shubunkin iS to be E'd.
> 
> Some intereSting poStS on methodS.
> MY fiSh Shop recommendS boiling water to the back of the head for inStant kill, but the clove oil idea SoundS much more gentle, I think I might try thiS in future.


Do not do that, that's incredibly cruel. Imagined being scalded with hot water until you die :gasp:

Just do this...":bash:"

PS What's wrong with your 'S' key?


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## markiemark (Jan 25, 2010)

*Humane?*

Copied and pasted.

Temperature shock method (boiling)
- involves dropping the fish into boiling water.

The main problem with this is not the effect on the fish, but rather our perception of it. Boiling something is usually for food, and things that are boiled are usually dead (lobster being the exception and falls under this category).

However this method is completely acceptable and humane for coldwater fish.


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

markiemark said:


> Copied and pasted.
> 
> Temperature shock method (boiling)
> - involves dropping the fish into boiling water.
> ...


I wouldn't anyway, anyone could write that lol. I'm not particularly squeamish and can confidently cut or crush a skull but the fish would be scalded before the temperature shock affected it.


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## lolly (Apr 2, 2008)

ive never heard of the clove oil treatment.
that is a really calm sounding way!
thank you . it is not very often i see a threat about with that isnt arguing and insults.
i have copied and pasted what youve said so i can refer to it if i ever need to.
though tbh, i dont think i ever could !




also, im sorry about your Shubunkin if you have euthed it


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

:censor: dont ever use boiling water. if you believe it is instant, then go to youtube and find the goldfish euthansia boiling water video. someone drops a live goldfish into actual boiling water, it jumps and swims for several seconds before stopping, it jumps from the water twice before dying, it is far from instant, the fish feels the pain, dont ever use this method!

clove oil is peaceful, quick, cheap and easy to come by.


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