# sick goldfish



## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

hi, i've had to take a fish out of an out door pond cos it seems to have something wrong (just lies on the bottom of the pond on its side), i asked on potty about pets forum and they said it sounds like swim bladder problem, so i got some medicine for that. i've now got a sick gold fish in a 10 litre tub of pond water (biggest tub i have) that i've added the first dose of medicine to, the problem is that i don't have any food that sinks so the fish can eat (it doesn't seem able to swim to the surface), is there any food that i might have in the house that sinks?


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## xemx (Jan 13, 2008)

peas seem to help my fish when he is abit unbalanced for what ever reason so try them


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

great i have a bag of frozen peas in the freezer, (do they just need defrosting or cooking?) thanks


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## xemx (Jan 13, 2008)

i just put them in warm water for a while then mush them up and poor them in


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

xemx said:


> i just put them in warm water for a while then mush them up and poor them in


thanks, i've just defrosted a couple, and put one in.


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

the fish seems to be getting better , i'll keep giving him/her peas till he/she is back to full health i'll probably be keeping him/her on peas & getting some other sinking foods.


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## Marinam2 (Sep 4, 2007)

Swim bladder problems can also be misdiagnosed constipation which causes a fish to swim funny and is caused by bad diet.

Try bloodworms and peas that will shift it!

Marina


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

Marinam2 said:


> Swim bladder problems can also be misdiagnosed constipation which causes a fish to swim funny and is caused by bad diet.
> 
> Try bloodworms and peas that will shift it!
> 
> Marina


i'll try get some blood worms when i get time to go back to the petshop but the medcine does seem to have helped a bit and the diet that our fish are kept on is complete pond fish pellets, not a mix where they can pick what they eat.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

Prawns sink too. Also if you usually use pellet, if you break the pellets open they sink, be careful not to overfeed in such a small amount of water though. Soaking the food in garlic extract will help his immunity and epsom salts will help him poop too. dose at 1 tbsp per 5 US gallons. You could also massage his tummy to move the blockage too, just gently mind. 

Has he pooped since he's been in the bucket?


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## Taxemic (Aug 13, 2008)

I am suprised that knowone has mentioned that when stressed it is common that fish won't want to eat at all. Oral medicines are known to be extremely difficult to administer because if the fish is already diseased, this lowers the immune system making the fish particulary stressed and not wanting to eat.

In such a small volume of water, if the fish does not eat what food it is given, it will lay there and stagnate causing the water quality to decline. If that is the case it will only cause further stress and possibly finish the fish off. Also fish generally go off the feed completley when temperatures reach below -10F. If you do feed at all it is wise to feed a wheat germ based pellet as it is high in fibre and can be digested easily.

Wait awhile before trying to feed again. Let the medicine take its toll.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

yeah, you want to keep the fish as calm as possible I.e Opaque container.

Keep it warm, maybe a blanket?

And you need to De-shell those peas!!:2thumb:


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

Taxemic said:


> I am suprised that knowone has mentioned that when stressed it is common that fish won't want to eat at all. Oral medicines are known to be extremely difficult to administer because if the fish is already diseased, this lowers the immune system making the fish particulary stressed and not wanting to eat.
> 
> In such a small volume of water, if the fish does not eat what food it is given, it will lay there and stagnate causing the water quality to decline. If that is the case it will only cause further stress and possibly finish the fish off. Also fish generally go off the feed completley when temperatures reach below -10F. If you do feed at all it is wise to feed a wheat germ based pellet as it is high in fibre and can be digested easily.
> 
> Wait awhile before trying to feed again. Let the medicine take its toll.


if he/she hasn't eaten any of the food by tomorrow i'll sieve it all out and i'm gonna pour a jug of ater from a bit of a height to put a bit more oxygen into the water.

i would like to know some thing though, do i need to change any of the water while the fish is in it cos i don't have a pump to keep the water moving. (when my mum had a tank of fish it had a pump & filter so we don't know, but putting the fish in a tub was the only way to treat it as the pond it was in is huge and there were too many other fish in it.)


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

herpmad_boi said:


> yeah, you want to keep the fish as calm as possible I.e Opaque container.
> 
> Keep it warm, maybe a blanket?
> 
> And you need to De-shell those peas!!:2thumb:


well its dark down stairs right now, its in doors so warm, and i did de-shell the peas, (i'll put a blanket over it in the morning to keep it dark.)


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## mask-of-sanity (Dec 27, 2006)

by taking the fish out of the pond it has caused more stress , put it back in the pond and treat the whole pond volume, do not feed the fish thats in the bucket the weather is cold and most fish wont be eating anyway so no food wont harm it tbh......if you decide to leave it in the bucket then seive out all the food now and change a jug of the water every day replacing it with pond water...also be worth putting an air pump in it or get a small fish tank filter and put some of your pond filter media in it ...but in future if you have a sick pond fish just leave it in the pond and treat the whole thing


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

mask-of-sanity said:


> by taking the fish out of the pond it has caused more stress , put it back in the pond and treat the whole pond volume, do not feed the fish thats in the bucket the weather is cold and most fish wont be eating anyway so no food wont harm it tbh......if you decide to leave it in the bucket then seive out all the food now and change a jug of the water every day replacing it with pond water...also be worth putting an air pump in it or get a small fish tank filter and put some of your pond filter media in it ...but in future if you have a sick pond fish just leave it in the pond and treat the whole thing


thing is i don't know the ponds volume, and its a big pond so would probably take more than 1 bottle per treatment, i am trying to do what is best for the fish but i don't have enough money to buy the treatment for the full pond (and the treatment says raise the temperature, i can't do that for the whole pond). i'll take out the food before uni, pour in a fresh jug of water (if the pond isn't frozen over it which case i'll leave it till after i get home), and put a blanket over it. the house will be quiet all day so hopefully that wil mean less stress too.


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## _jake_ (Jul 3, 2008)

Im not clued up at all about ponds and what not, but dont Pond fish during winter go into a semi-hibernation state?, are you sure that isnt whats wrong with the fish?. Swim bladder and constipation usaully make the fish swim up and down and side to side - kinda like gymnastic looking. And surely the fish just wouldn't be 'hanging' about with either of the stated illnesses?. It could be a possibility that it's the last stages of dieing?.. Witnessing my fish that die of old age in the last stages they do the same. And obviousley removing it from the pond is just putting more stress upon the fish. And how, still treat the fish in the the tub, as putting the fish back now into the pond would surely kill it?. And if you slightley raise the temp too about 22c. And see if that makes a difference. If not, i would take a guess and say the fish is dieing. Sorry Bud.


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

herpmad_boi said:


> Im not clued up at all about ponds and what not, but dont *Pond fish during winter go into a semi-hibernation state*(1)?, are you sure that isnt whats wrong with the fish?. *Swim bladder and constipation usaully make the fish swim up and down and side to side - kinda like gymnastic looking*(2). And surely the fish just wouldn't be 'hanging' about with either of the stated illnesses?. It could be a possibility that it's the last stages of dieing?.. *Witnessing my fish that die of old age in the last stages they do the same*(3). And obviousley removing it from the pond is just putting more stress upon the fish. And how, still treat the fish in the the tub, as putting the fish back now into the pond would surely kill it?. And if you slightley raise the temp too about 22c. And see if that makes a difference. If not, i would take a guess and say the fish is dieing. Sorry Bud.


(1) well this fish was lying on its side on the shallow rim of the pond, the others are all swiming roun din the deep bottom slowly and it seemed to be acting strange before the winter cool down (we left it for a while hoping it would get better on its own) so it has been a while since we first started keeping an eye on it.

(2) well i'm just going on what i've been told on forums, but the medcine does seem to be helping even if it isn't a swim bladder problem.

(3) it is a young fish (we haven't had it for a year yet) so not likely to be old age.

i'm just trying to get the fish back up to health, then i'll slowly lower the temperature / wait till it's warmer out side before putting the fish back how my mum showed me she put fish into her tank when we had one.


the fish seemed better ths morning, it looked like he/she had nibbles the peas and not all the bits of pellets were there, seived out what was left along with a poo, poured a jug of the water from the tub back in from a bit of a height to add oxygen (but couldn't add water cos the pond was frozen over) and covered it up with a blanket to keep it dark. checked on it this afternoon to pour water again and he/she was able to swim upright for a while (went back on his/her side when stopped swimming), i added another 1/2 pea (i'll take out any left overs in the morning).


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

Did you try the epsom salts? It defo works for constipation ad if it is constipation your fish will recover really quickly, I agree it's not ideal to move your fish but it's done now so grilling you about it isn't all that helpful. adding a filter now won't do much, it'll take around 6 weeks to cycle anyway! Unless you have a mature cycled filter in a tank somewhere that you could use? (I doubt that, but thought I'd ask).

Warming up cold water fish will speed up it's metabolism but don't do it too much, it has to go back out remember, it'll be a shock for it if it's too much of a difference, just being indoors will have warmed it plenty. 

You need to keep the water fresh, I'd say 20% of the water needs changing every day to keep the ammonia and nitrite in the bucket down and to aid healing.

Good luck with him.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

ilovecornsnakes said:


> (1) well this fish was lying on its side on the shallow rim of the pond, the others are all swiming roun din the deep bottom slowly and it seemed to be acting strange before the winter cool down (we left it for a while hoping it would get better on its own) so it has been a while since we first started keeping an eye on it.
> 
> (2) well i'm just going on what i've been told on forums, but the medcine does seem to be helping even if it isn't a swim bladder problem.
> 
> ...


 
What tub? Are you dechlorinating any tap water you add? Did you take any water out first? Adding water will dilute what's there but you need to look at water changes like flushing a toilet, you need to take some out before replacing any. Also a good dechlorintaor will remove chloramine which is present in our tap water and burns the F**k out of their gills.
Have you ahd your pond water tested recently?
Most LFS will test it for you if you take a sample in you might be able to see a problem there?. 
Hope this helps.


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

abisnail said:


> What tub? Are you dechlorinating any tap water you add? Did you take any water out first? Adding water will dilute what's there but you need to look at water changes like flushing a toilet, you need to take some out before replacing any. Also a good dechlorintaor will remove chloramine which is present in our tap water and burns the F**k out of their gills.
> Have you ahd your pond water tested recently?
> Most LFS will test it for you if you take a sample in you might be able to see a problem there?.
> Hope this helps.


the tub that he/she is in (the pond was frozen over so i coudn't get water from there at the time).
i'm not adding tap water, just from the pond he/she was in so the chemicals are the same.
yes i am taking out water first then putting fresh in so voulme stays the same.
th pond was cleaned and all that in the summer by a professional that my mum called (she has it done every summer to keep the algea down other wise the visibility is really bad).

the fish does seem to have improved a bit since he/she was in the pond, in the pond all he/she could do was lie on his/her side barely breathing, since i've given it the first dose of medicine he/she has got a bit better, swims round the right way up round the edges while i pour the water in to the middle.


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## abisnail (Jan 1, 2009)

ilovecornsnakes said:


> the tub that he/she is in (the pond was frozen over so i coudn't get water from there at the time).
> i'm not adding tap water, just from the pond he/she was in so the chemicals are the same.
> yes i am taking out water first then putting fresh in so voulme stays the same.
> th pond was cleaned and all that in the summer by a professional that my mum called (she has it done every summer to keep the algea down other wise the visibility is really bad).
> ...


 
Ah ok, I see, do you not have an air pump that you could put in the bucket to help gas out any ammonia that's in there?


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

i don't have an air pump no but when i add the water i pour it from high enough to create bubbles as it mixes and i do it atleast one a day adding water from the pond i some times pour a jug from the tub the fish is in back into it too.
one thing that is a rescent difference, is it normal for a fish to gulp air as i and water (or water with medicine) in to the tub? 
when i pour water in he/she swims the right way up / nose first to the surface and gulps air into his/her mouth and either lets it out back through his/her mouth or sometimes through the gills, it only happened last time i poured water in so i though could e hungry, i put in 1 pellet and when i checked on him/her the pellet was gone and there weren't a load of bits like before so i guess he/she had eaten it.


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## ilovecornsnakes (Apr 4, 2008)

i changed most of the water yesterday but tried to keep it the same temperature, and this morning the gold fish ooked to have recovered from what ever was up with it. i'm carrying on the medicine course till the end, and then i'll put him/her (slowly in stages) back in to the pond. he/she has a name now too, my lil sis gave him/her the name Tango.


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