# What constitutes a reptile rescue?



## Uromastyxman

I have lost count of the number of adverts I've seen recently with the advertiser describing themselves as a "reptile rescue" my names blah blah and I have many years experience with reptiles and I'd like to offer any of your unwanted reptiles a loving forever home.

While I have no doubt that there are some reptile rescuers/rescue organisations doing amazing work out there, such as the RSPCA reptile rescue in Brighton and many others, who are dedicated to providing a safety net for unwanted reptiles, I have become rather cynical regarding the true motivation of some of these "selfless" charitable individual/s who seem to be offering forever homes one week, but shortly afterwards advertising the same animals for sale, and not for a nominal rehoming fee either, but for full price. These individuals often have classified adds running selling reptiles while they offering to take more in.

For a start, how can anyone advertise forever homes to an unlimited number of unwanted reptiles? I couldn't and I have about 50 spare vivariums in my lock up, but I don't have the space or money to accommodate a limitless incoming supply of unwanted animals that I can look after until their dying day.

So, who are these philanthropic reptile lovers who have warehouse sized reptile rooms that can accommodate these unwanted reptiles, who have such an unlimited supply of space and money to spend on electricity and food for these poor unfortunate creatures? So much space and money in fact that they actually have to advertise for more unwanted animals? 

It would seem to me that some of these individuals may not be being completely truthful when they say they can offer these animals experienced forever homes, I mean, it is simply not possible to do it. So are these people just taking reptiles in for free and flogging them off at a profit? And if they are, are they not misleading people by offering forever homes, when they are not in a position to offer one themselves, or guarantee where they'll actually end up.


Should some of these people not be saying, 'Bring me your reptiles for free and I will move them on to someone for a price' 

Is this not nearer the truth for some of these "rescuers" and therefore should the
authorities not be looking into the nature of their activities?

Would their adverts be seen as illegal deception in the eyes of the law?
Are they in fact an actual business, declaring their full tax liabilities?
If they are not being completely truthful regarding the nature of their activities, how do we know they are capable of looking after exotic animals anyway?

Hats of to the true reptile rescuers, they have my full support. The other type who are lying about the true nature of their activities are starting to annoy me.

So, how do we distinguish the good guys from the bad guys?


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## supatips

I know people that rehome or facilite the rehoming of unwanted reptiles, they manage to do this without advertising themselves as rescues. 

People that openly claim to be reptile rescues are generally chancers who flip animals a few weeks/months down the line. It seems the claims of being a reptile rescue helps part people with things perhaps. I'm not saying it's the case with everyone but when you dig a little deeper things aren't always what they seem.

I remember one person a little while ago who was asking for donations for equipment and offering forever homes for turtles claiming to be a rescue on one popular sale site and then one other popular sale site was selling the equipment as starter kits with turtles. Woefully poor starter kits at that. 

I'm quite sure if I dug around a little there are quite a few people operating exactly like that. 

If I see an advert that offers forever homes for unwanted reptiles I generally ignore it.


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## Cicindela

I do know what you mean, easy money perhaps but From personal experience I have been in contact with two locally- I'd like to name them but I havent asked so I won't both are excellent- I have a boa I wanted to rehome, he couldnt take it but would ask on his list of people- I said he could charge them or me a fee for doing so but wouldnt- so he was doing that for the snake's benefit and rejected the offer of any money- both rescues have been helpful and honest. I think you need to be careful but you can get an idea of the rescue by looking at the pictures of how they keep their animals, with these two I have been overjoyed by the effort they put in to their enclosures, the vetting process they ask of you and the standard and cleanliness of their reptile rooms. : victory:


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## Central Scotland Reptiles

I am happy to offer a forever home to the following species: 

*Snakes:* Boelens Pythons, Green Tree Pythons and selected Royal Pythons.

*Lizards:* Sungazer Lizards, Armadillo Lizards, Chinese Crocodile Lizards, Rhino Iguanas and Day Geckos. 

*Chelonia:* Egyptian Tortoises, Pancake Tortoises and Alligator Snapping Turtles. 

I will also consider some amphibian species too.

I am also happy to accept any donations of brand new equipment to help with this noble work!! 

For everything else please contact the SSPCA (if you are in Scotland) or the RSPCA - thanks muchly!!


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## Cicindela

The two people that I dealt with had no luck at such animals- they took in anything regardless of it's rarity or commonness on the market- countless normal bearded dragons, a royal I saw there that had been kept in a viv with the heat mat covering entire floor-no stat- so it's stomach was charred black or an iguana with mbd and one leg missing from being kept with siblings or another normal royal kept in a rub with ammonia burns from it's own faeces it had to lie in. They took in everything and I felt it was for the animals good. I was happy to know and deal with them. :2thumb:


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## Dracoblade

*Really?*

I am in the process of making my rescue into a charity. I have not once asked for money or anything to take in mistreated or unwanted reptiles.
I have never rehomed one either. 
I have a Sumatran water monitor who bit his own tail off because his owner trapped him in the door to control him. I did have an adult green iguana who sadly was euthanised due to a tumour in his throat, who I nursed from a skeleton and knocking on deaths door. I recently took in a albino corn snake who was abandoned in an empty house for over 12 weeks. He is 5ft long but so skinny he looks like a shoe lace. I have a 7ft female salmon boa who is covered in scars. Where her previous owner used to stick cigarettes on her. How can I turn my back on these. When it's the uneducated and stupid humans doing it. Each one will live it's days out with me. I opened a shop to educate the public, I sell fun stuff to do with reptiles. And I share there stories. Not everyone is after a quick buck. I'd go without before they would.


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## Cicindela

I was corresponding with someone who had an injured commonly found animal they knew they could no longer keep or afford- The rspca reptile rescue could not take it unless they had it treated first which they couldn't, 
I have also known private reptile rescues take in such cases and treat them out of their own pocket- no hesitation and no questions asked.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Dracoblade said:


> I am in the process of making my rescue into a charity. I have not once asked for money or anything to take in mistreated or unwanted reptiles.
> I have never rehomed one either.
> I have a Sumatran water monitor who bit his own tail off because his owner trapped him in the door to control him. I did have an adult green iguana who sadly was euthanised due to a tumour in his throat, who I nursed from a skeleton and knocking on deaths door. I recently took in a albino corn snake who was abandoned in an empty house for over 12 weeks. He is 5ft long but so skinny he looks like a shoe lace. I have a 7ft female salmon boa who is covered in scars. Where her previous owner used to stick cigarettes on her. How can I turn my back on these. When it's the uneducated and stupid humans doing it. Each one will live it's days out with me. I opened a shop to educate the public, I sell fun stuff to do with reptiles. And I share there stories. Not everyone is after a quick buck. I'd go without before they would.


So if you become a charity you can ask for donations?


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## Tarron

you actually need to be taking donations of over £5000 to be able to register as a charity.

Legally speaking, Rescues don't exist. There is no framework, no registration of facilities or anything like that. and as you need £5000 to be a charity per year (which most rescues wont get) then you can't be registered that way either. so in essence, its extremely difficult to decide which are legitimate organisations and which are chancers. Word of mouth and reputation will be the best decider


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## Dracoblade

*Charity*

Yes I am aware and I have proof of this as I also have the financial matters all logged and submitted with my trustees and all the other jargon you need. Gov.co.uk have all my paper work. Fundraising is the fun part as well as having a business that runs along side it.


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## ian14

Dracoblade said:


> Yes I am aware and I have proof of this as I also have the financial matters all logged and submitted with my trustees and all the other jargon you need. Gov.co.uk have all my paper work. Fundraising is the fun part as well as having a business that runs along side it.


Why would the official Government website have your paperwork?
To register as a charity you apply to the Charities Commision, NOT via the government self help/information web site. I am also fairly sure that you cannot be running a business but also claim to be a charity. The two are polar opposites. A business exists to make profit, a charity is a non profit making organisation with all finances generated being used to run the organisation.
Sorry, but this just does not ring true. On another thread you claim that your rescue is registered, but there is no such thing!


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## Dracoblade

*Charity*

Charity commission.gov.uk 
I'm not stupid
And as for registering, I have registered and have a license. My property has been inspected, I'm not just a 3 bed semi taking in unwanted pets. As for my business the profit of it goes onto the animals. I don't do it because I need to. I am lucky enough to have the cash. I do it because of my love of animals.dont try and put me down. You don't know me and you don't know my circumstances.


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## ian14

Dracoblade said:


> Charity commission.gov.uk
> I'm not stupid
> And as for registering, I have registered and have a license. My property has been inspected, I'm not just a 3 bed semi taking in unwanted pets. As for my business the profit of it goes onto the animals. I don't do it because I need to. I am lucky enough to have the cash. I do it because of my love of animals.dont try and put me down. You don't know me and you don't know my circumstances.


:2wallbang::2wallbang:

You cannot be registered or licenced as a "rescue"!!!!!
There is no such thing, it does not exist.
I am not putting you down, I am pointing out a little thing called law. You are trying to make out you are a "rescue" and are registered and licenced. The problem you have is, there is no such licence or registration. It does not exist.
The only licence would be a Pet Shop Licence, or a Zoo Operators Licence. Now, as you say you take in waifs and strays, well, neither applies. There is NO SUCH THING AS A RESCUE LICENCE OR A RESCUE REGISTRATION.
Please, do enlighten us all as to just what "licence" and "registration" you have.

On a side note, you have said in the post I have quoted "I AM LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THE CASH". Great! So why are you applying to be a charity, claiming that you get in excess of £5000 per year in donations??? If you have the cash then why are you taking donations?

Sorry, but this all sounds very very odd. Either you have the cash to pay for the husbandry of your animals or you dont. You cant ask for donations to fund your hobby.

A legitimate rescue takes in injured or unwanted animals, gets them back to health then rehomes them. Do you have a website for your rescue? If not, how can you rescue and rehome them. If you do not rehome then frankly you come across as a freebie hunter.

Harsh? Maybe, but it really is the reality.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Dracoblade said:


> I am in the process of making my rescue into a charity. I have not once asked for money or anything to take in mistreated or unwanted reptiles.
> I have never rehomed one either.
> I have a Sumatran water monitor who bit his own tail off because his owner trapped him in the door to control him. I did have an adult green iguana who sadly was euthanised due to a tumour in his throat, who I nursed from a skeleton and knocking on deaths door. I recently took in a albino corn snake who was abandoned in an empty house for over 12 weeks. He is 5ft long but so skinny he looks like a shoe lace. I have a 7ft female salmon boa who is covered in scars. Where her previous owner used to stick cigarettes on her. How can I turn my back on these. When it's the uneducated and stupid humans doing it. Each one will live it's days out with me. I opened a shop to educate the public, I sell fun stuff to do with reptiles. And I share there stories. Not everyone is after a quick buck. I'd go without before they would.


You've not asked for money because your advert on a free site states you refuse to pay for any you take in. Plus you don't mind running an advert asking for free/cheep (sp) equipment!


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## Tarron

Perhaps we are all being a bit harsh and not giving Draco the option to prove himself.

Do you have a website/facebook page setup to showcase the rescue, the work you do, how you help animals and rehome them etc?

I'm always interested in finding new, legitimate rescue and rehoming places. Our pet shop has regularly sponsored some legitimate places and run raffles and other fundraising events for them. 

Thanks Draco 

Tarron


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## Dracoblade

*Animals*

No you are right I haven't asked for money. And I don't. I do this because I choose to do it. 
I have had my home checked and vetted and I hold a license for keeping dangerous animals which is updated and checked regularly. 
The charity idea came from friends who wish to help with fundraising etc and it's actually them who is dealing with it. I have rescued animals from abroad and travelled 13 countries in 3 days driving through Europe.
I do my best to help. And actually haven't rehomed any of the animals I've rescued. I have a great relationship with the exotic vet near me and I even hold a qualification to administer verterinary medicines.
There's always people wanting to put others down but I've been through so much shit in life I brush it off now. I take positive critism but negative, life's to short to worry.
If I get turned down for charity status I don't care as I know I will carry on and keep trying to make a difference. 
I have a solicitor who does all my paper work so I know I'm all in order. I always make sure I have the animals signed over to me. 
The local council even use me. I once cleared a house of tarantulas. 
I'm happy doing what I do. Although there's been plenty of sweat and tears it's very rewarding.


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## lozmick

Please, do enlighten us all as to just what "licence" and "registration" you have............

Even I'm curious now


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## loxocemus

he/she just clarified above.

here's someone trying to help the abused our hobby denys exists and ur all trying to demonize them for confusing the terms of what they do/are.

when did any of you take in an abused monitor or iguana or burm or make any difference in the rescue world????

rgds
ed


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## lozmick

I did I took in a Bosc with burns on its back and oozing in blood I took it in spent a fortune treating it and getting back to health again on a proper diet I then handed it to a reptile shop which he now uses it as a display to show how big they get and how big an 8x4x4 really is. So people won't impulse buy we hope.


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## ian14

loxocemus said:


> he/she just clarified above.
> 
> here's someone trying to help the abused our hobby denys exists and ur all trying to demonize them for confusing the terms of what they do/are.
> 
> when did any of you take in an abused monitor or iguana or burm or make any difference in the rescue world????
> 
> rgds
> ed


Nobody has been putting him down, and he hasnt clarified anything either. Across a couple of different threads he/she has stated that they run a rescue and are registered. WHat has been asked is what that is for as there is no such registration. I am struggling to see that that has been clarified.
The animals do not get rehomed, just taken in, which is great, but I am also struggling to see how that can be a viable rescue, as you would become flooded and innundated. AT some point you would need to rehome them. Or, to not take anything else in. 
The issue of being a charity is also dubious, as it appears that he has not already taken in donations, and to register you need to show an annual level of donation of £5000. If you havent already been taking money from people how can you then register, as you cannot show that there has been donations of £5k. So, it does come across that this is someone who has taken in sick animals, and all credit for that, but now appears to want the public to pay for their ongoing care??
None of that is clarified either.


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## Uromastyxman

I think the way this thread has unfolded precisely underlines my point.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Uromastyxman said:


> I think the way this thread has unfolded precisely underlines my point.


Indeed :2thumb: Especially when they frantically update their Facebook page, and remove their Just Giving page asking for donations!


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## Pete Q

Stephen P said:


> Indeed :2thumb: Especially when they frantically update their Facebook page, and remove their Just Giving page asking for donations!


 Oh :gasp:


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## Dracoblade

it was actually my wife who set that page up and it was me who took it down as dont want to upset anyone for rescuing ill and abused animals now would i. Heaven for bid i took on someone elses problem and not ask for a little help. Me bad


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

Dracoblade said:


> it was actually my wife who set that page up and it was me who took it down as dont want to upset anyone for rescuing ill and abused animals now would i. Heaven for bid i took on someone elses problem and not ask for a little help. Me bad


The issue was more the fact you stated you never asked for money/donations, which actually wasn't true.


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## ian14

Dracoblade said:


> it was actually my wife who set that page up and it was me who took it down as dont want to upset anyone for rescuing ill and abused animals now would i. Heaven for bid i took on someone elses problem and not ask for a little help. Me bad


That is not a rescue. That is someone looking to get joe public to pay for their hobby.
You said that you have regular inspections as a DWAL holder. But DWAL holders only get checked when the licence is up for renewal. Every other year.
Rescuing ill/abused animals is highly laudable, but you cannot ask the public to then pay for it. The animals you listed, including a multi gene morph boa, suggest that really you wanted others to cover the cost of your animals. That is not a rescue. A rescue takes in unwanted animals and rehomes them.


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## Central Scotland Reptiles

Which is why I have been unable to register the S.O.S (Save Our Sungazers) Campaign as a charity. 



Tarron said:


> you actually need to be taking donations of over £5000 to be able to register as a charity.


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## alecwood

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> Which is why I have been unable to register the S.O.S (Save Our Sungazers) Campaign as a charity.


Same reason why North East Reptile rescue isn't registered either. £5k is a lot of money, you'd need to spend a lot of time fundraising to bring that in. Can do a CIO though to become registered similarly to a Ltd without that level of fundraising so we'll look at that when I've got some time

Our LA say we don't need a PSL, but it's a very grey area so on advice we've stopped asking for rehome fees, relying instead on voluntary donations, which has almost zeroed our income. We've got the usual mountain of beardies, corns, kings, boas and horsefields - it's 99% the really common stuff we take in, collect it, nurse back to health, pay the vet bills, advertise it to rehome, deliver it so we can personally inspect the enclosure and verify it's as claimed, and then get someone with a half million pound house saying they'd take it if we provided the setup etc free too, or that they'd give us a small donation but they know we get the animals for free. Now I have a good job, and can put about 15% of my gross salary into the rescue, we take in about 100 animals a year, if we had the funds, the staff and the room we could treble that easily, and that's the bit all these debates miss - there's a need, it's not being fulfilled elsewhere, and it never will be.

It's always interesting reading these threads, listening to us all get damned as freebie hunters by hobbyists and demeaned by those who run such services themselves off the side of existing animal businesses as somehow less just because we're not profiting off of it. Yes there are crappy rescues out there, there are lots of dodgy freebie hunters around, but dishonesty exists in all walks of life. 

For all the rescue sector is by no means perfect, I'd put us way above the most lauded, worshipped and respected people on here who are that sector of the hobby that keeps on churning out deformed animals with serious physical and neurological problems just to line their pockets with obscene amounts of cash. It's laughable that the hobby put these people up on a pedestal while damning folks like us who dig deep into their own pockets to take care of the hobby's unwanted


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## DW2013

"For all the rescue sector is by no means perfect, I'd put us way above the most lauded, worshipped and respected people on here who are that sector of the hobby that keeps on churning out deformed animals with serious physical and neurological problems just to line their pockets with obscene amounts of cash. It's laughable that the hobby put these people up on a pedestal while damning folks like us who dig deep into their own pockets to take care of the hobby's unwanted"


I have a certain amount of sympathy with this, but there are few ways of looking at it.

Nobody is forcing you to take on these animals. I have many unwanted animals too. Chances are, if you don't take them, they will be sold to, or taken in by, someone else. It can be hard to remember, but it is true. It should be a labour of love, although it will have frustrating/tough times - I certainly went through the ringer with the terrapins, but it was my call. you should not bankrupt yourself or diminsh your quality of life for the sake of these creatures. This leaves aside all of the flippers and hoarders; I mean the masochists and martyrs giving themselves a distorted sense of purpose by becoming over-run with beardies and corn snakes. We are not heroes, we just have a lot of pets.

On the other hand, I agree. There are the preachers of OTT husbandry with 8 light bulbs a set-up, trying to out-do each other with the latest, strangest Wild Caught beastie. The supply of those animals necessitates a pyramid of animal sales of all kinds beneath them. Then you have the morph breeders, churning out racks of unwanted "normals" or, in some cases deformed creatures. Then the pet-shops, selling often over-priced animals to people with poor guidance who then cling to their animal until they realise they will never recoup the money. Having someone to mop up after the hobby doesn't seem a bad thing.

I'm being deliberately harsh on both groups there (I fall into both categories - although not a morph breeder), but I think it is worth considering before any of us get too indignant.


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## Uromastyxman

Since I first started this thread I have seen a greater increase in adverts where people are offering to take reptiles for free, claiming to offer forever experienced homes to these reptiles, while at the same time running adverts with reptiles for sale, not for a nominal re-homing fee, but charging full price.


I am fortunate enough to have room for many reptiles, but I certainly couldn't keep advertising for more animals as I would run out of space.


Regardless of the issues in the hobby that we all know about such as unethical breeding and cramped housing etc etc, I am simply disappointed that these individuals are misrepresenting what they actually are. They are simply touting for free animals to sell on. This is in no way a criticism of genuine animal rescue organisations who do fantastic work. I just don't like liars who are trying to make money by masquerading as something virtuous.

And if you're annoyed by my post and you consider yourself a "real Reptile rescue" and you don't do the things I've described, don't bother to post as I obviously don't mean you do I?


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