# Descentimg Skunks



## muskrat (Jun 8, 2008)

Isn't descenting skunks more akin to declawing cats than to nutering, after all you are removing a defence mechanism. What real excuse can you have for doing this except as a vain atempt to sell more animals to people who want a cute furry pet.

Why not go the whole hog and ask for all snakes to be defanged, dogs to have all there teeth removed.

There is no real justification for this idea and anyone claiming to be interested in animal welfare should be shocked and ashamed at this behaviour and not publicising a petition.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Why would a captive skunk EVER be in a situation that they would NEED that defense mechanism? It would be excruciatingly irresponsible for any keeper to allow their skunk to escape into Britain as they're non-natives. The descenting operation is not particularly invasive, does not have behavioural effects on the animal and doesn't remove their OTHER natural defenses (claws and teeth). 

Declawing a cat has more effect than JUST to remove their claws as a natural defense - it also makes it more difficult for them to move around normally (they can't climb, stretch properly or get a proper grip on flooring) - and can cause behavioural problems like inappropriate toileting, especially if they have a lot of pain when they're healing up. 

And why is it acceptable to neuter a dog when that causes changes in their growth and behaviour - and not always in a favourable way? It's done for human convenience (so the dog doesn't mount/roam/etc) and not for the dog's specific health. Again, it can CAUSE health problems (urinary incontinence in bitches, for example). 

If one operation is OK for human convenience and preference of behaviour, then I personally cannot see why another less invasive procedure that doesn't affect the animal's behaviour or well being if it's done CORRECTLY by a veterinarian is unacceptable. 

Is it just that you don't think skunks should be pets at all?


----------



## muskrat (Jun 8, 2008)

I don't think people should not be allowed to have skunks as pets, I just think they should not have skunks as accessories. 

Why descent a skunk, they is no reason for this unless you want a cute little animal you can pet. If this is what you want, get a puppy or kitten. 

There is no valid reason, apart from the above, to validate this operation.

By the way, the only valid reason for neutering is as a form of contraception. It does not always change behaviour, either sexual or aggression. A dog or a cat can behave exactly the same whether neutered or not.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

If we're advocating neutering strictly as contraception, why don't more veterinarians perform vasectomies on dogs/cats? Then you're leaving the animal's hormones intact - so it will grow and behave like an entire animal.

Oh, wait.

It's because tomcats spray and male dogs mount things. Early spay and neuter reduces this to almost nil - it changes the animal's behaviour. Late spay or neuter isn't so bad - the animal's had the developmental effects of the hormones to assist in body growth and behavioural development... but then you get spraying and mounting neutered males.

People DO get skunks because they want a cute animal they can pet - temperamentally they're very well suited to it if they aren't going to 'poot' and blind the whole family. Other than a zoo specimen, what else is a trainable, cute, fluffy animal kept in the home for?


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

muskrat said:


> I don't think people should not be allowed to have skunks as pets, I just think they should not have skunks as accessories.
> 
> Why descent a skunk, they is no reason for this unless you want a cute little animal you can pet. If this is what you want, get a puppy or kitten.
> 
> ...


Not everyone that has skunks as pets use them as fashion accessories................and it is illegal to descent skunks in this country now anyways 

you will probably find that 90% of the people that own skunks dont advertise the fact they do so i dont see how they are being used as a fashion accessory :whistling2:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

muskrat said:


> Isn't descenting skunks more akin to declawing cats than to nutering, after all you are removing a defence mechanism. What real excuse can you have for doing this except as a vain atempt to sell more animals to people who want a cute furry pet.
> 
> Why not go the whole hog and ask for all snakes to be defanged, dogs to have all there teeth removed. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> There is no real justification for this idea and anyone claiming to be interested in animal welfare should be shocked and ashamed at this behaviour and not publicising a petition.



If you remove a dogs teeth then it cannot eat, if you remove a snakes teeth [they do not all have fangs] it cannot eat.

So you say descenting a skunk is the same as this?

If you descent a skunk it can still eat.

Removing a cats claws?? they will not be able to climb nor walk properly, so how is this the same?

'muskrat' you seem to have a problem and im not quite sure what it is at the moment, but i have been reading through your posts and you seem quick to jump on people. Why is this?

Fair enough you do not agree with descenting skunks, but why go about it in this manner?

John


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Petition to: To Allow the De-scenting of Skunks.

Just for you.

John


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Reptile world said:


> If you remove a dogs teeth then it cannot eat, if you remove a snakes teeth [they do not all have fangs] it cannot eat.
> 
> So you say descenting a skunk is the same as this?
> 
> ...


 
I think muskrat was bored and wanted some attention John :lol2:

and what better way to get that other than start a pathetic thread like this :lol2:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> I think muskrat was bored and wanted some attention John :lol2:
> 
> and what better way to get that other than start a pathetic thread like this :lol2:


Would have to agree with you Emmaj.

The hoggies are doing well BTW. How are yours getting on?

John


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Oooo brill have you stoped the escapee hoggy lol 

I had my youngest out yest cleaning her cage i had to do a mad search for her found her under my bed curled up in my slipper :lol2:

yeah mine are doing fab thank you they grow so quick they aint babies for 2 mins :lol2:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> Oooo brill have you stoped the escapee hoggy lol
> 
> I had my youngest out yest cleaning her cage i had to do a mad search for her found her under my bed curled up in my slipper :lol2:
> 
> yeah mine are doing fab thank you they grow so quick they aint babies for 2 mins :lol2:


Yes problem solved :lol2: , changed from the cage type to the other indoor rabbit style cage with the plastic sides.

They do grow very quickly. 
Had my three out last night, i never knew the could run so fast. The little escapist [don't have a name yet] was on her toes and gone! 

They never stop eating either...

John


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Reptile world said:


> Yes problem solved :lol2: , changed from the cage type to the other indoor rabbit style cage with the plastic sides.
> 
> They do grow very quickly.
> Had my three out last night, i never knew the could run so fast. The little escapist [don't have a name yet] was on her toes and gone!
> ...


LOL your should call her scarlet (from gone with the wind) is it scarlet thats in gone with the wind lol 

yeah mine are like that lol they go on a mad rampage when i get them out :lol2:


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

oooo i found a fantastic site dunno if you have it or not will pm you the link has some great stuff on diet and such really good read : victory:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> oooo i found a fantastic site dunno if you have it or not will pm you the link has some great stuff on diet and such really good read : victory:


Thanks, will take a look.

Im hoping to add to the mad house soon with another skunk :lol2:

Can't wait!

John


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Ooooo yeps your house seems to be getting madder by the week :lol2:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> Ooooo yeps your house seems to be getting madder by the week :lol2:


I love it LOL...

John


----------



## stubeanz (Mar 28, 2007)

muskrat said:


> Isn't descenting skunks more akin to declawing cats than to nutering, after all you are removing a defence mechanism. What real excuse can you have for doing this except as a vain atempt to sell more animals to people who want a cute furry pet.
> 
> Why not go the whole hog and ask for all snakes to be defanged, dogs to have all there teeth removed.
> 
> There is no real justification for this idea and anyone claiming to be interested in animal welfare should be shocked and ashamed at this behaviour and not publicising a petition.


what is the point of this post?!? it seems you just are starting it for an argument? anti maybe? 
declawing cats cannot be compared to a small operation that doesnt stop the skunk from acting any different then a scented skunk. have you kept skunks? obviously not as you will no that skunks seem to still think they can spray even if they dont release any smell, and still act naturaly.

do us a favour and get off the forum, we have had people like you before that just like stirring arguments up!
stu


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Reptile world said:


> I love it LOL...
> 
> John


 
LOL will have to visit the madhouse if im ever your way :lol2:


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

stubeanz said:


> what is the point of this post?!? it seems you just are starting it for an argument? anti maybe?
> declawing cats cannot be compared to a small operation that doesnt stop the skunk from acting any different then a scented skunk. have you kept skunks? obviously not as you will no that skunks seem to still think they can spray even if they dont release any smell, and still act naturaly.
> 
> do us a favour and get off the forum, we have had people like you before that just like stirring arguments up!
> stu


 
totally and utterly well said stu couldnt agree with you more mate : victory:


----------



## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Just because someone is opposed to a practice doesn't automatically make them an anti! 

It is a pointless thread I'm not disagreeing with that, but I just thought I'd point out the above. :blush:


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Emmaj said:


> LOL will have to visit the madhouse if im ever your way :lol2:


Your welcome...

John


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Reptile world said:


> Your welcome...
> 
> John


 
excellant : victory: thank you hun :flrt:


----------



## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I've worked with skunks for a few years now, both intact and descented and have noticed absolutely no difference. i have also witnessed the descenting procedure first hand.... it is hardly invasive and causes little concern to the animal. and convalescing takes like maybe a week. during this time i noticed no real pain or discomfort suffered by the animals in question.

the spray that comes from a defensive skunk can and does in fact cause anaemia in some cases in Dogs and especially cats, and an unsuspecting dog that meant no harm could end up pretty damn ill if it decides to do the 'doggy handshake' ie - sniff its backside. not that the dog was predating upon the skunk in any way, merely curious. now i have 2 dogs and a skunk. the removal of my skunks scent gland was a necessary evil, and i can't deny it is far easier living with a doctored animal than it would be with an intact one. it is for my dogs protection mainly, in fact my skunk has grown up with my dogs and DOES in fact believe herself to be a dog, she has very few skunk mannerisms and has adopted many of the attributes and behaviours she has learned from being raised with dogs.

i have checked the cupboard under the stairs, under the bed, in the airing cupboard, the kitchen cupboards, and any other nooks and crannys..... and guess what? i can find no evidence of natural predators of skunks in my house ie mountain lions, great grey owls and bears. i thought i saw a mountain lion, but then i realised it was a feather duster. so its safe to say that my skunk in fact does not need a detterent when she has absoultely no fear of predation.

later.


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Moshpitviper said:


> I've worked with skunks for a few years now, both intact and descented and have noticed absolutely no difference. i have also witnessed the descenting procedure first hand.... it is hardly invasive and causes little concern to the animal. and convalescing takes like maybe a week. during this time i noticed no real pain or discomfort suffered by the animals in question.
> 
> the spray that comes from a defensive skunk can and does in fact cause anaemia in some cases in Dogs and especially cats, and an unsuspecting dog that meant no harm could end up pretty damn ill if it decides to do the 'doggy handshake' ie - sniff its backside. not that the dog was predating upon the skunk in any way, merely curious. now i have 2 dogs and a skunk. the removal of my skunks scent gland was a necessary evil, and i can't deny it is far easier living with a doctored animal than it would be with an intact one. it is for my dogs protection mainly, in fact my skunk has grown up with my dogs and DOES in fact believe herself to be a dog, she has very few skunk mannerisms and has adopted many of the attributes and behaviours she has learned from being raised with dogs.
> 
> ...


Brilliant! :lol2:

John


----------



## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

My skunk is de-scented, my future skunks will be de-scented, simply because they should have no reason to "need" their defence mechanism in my care.
Yes, mine has posed as it to spray me a couple of times now, but those times have been because of my own mistakes, supprising it whilst asleep etc.

The entire operation of de-scenting is quick, simple and relitivly risk free, it was not done to "accessorise" the animal, but reduce the social stigma that is attached to the word "Skunk".
I regularly take mine into town with me, and apart from people asking if it is a ferret (does it look like a ferret?) everyone assumes that it can spray... those who choose to believe that, I dont tell them otherwise, those who seem to not be bothered are welcome to pet her. I take her into town, again, not as an accessory, but because every time she has gone in, she has shown no signs of stress, she has been calm, happy to walk around and be handled, if she was in anyway bothered by it, she would go home ASAP.

What's more, and this is my big argument with all these threads about de-scenting.
What are you complaining about? It is illegal now, simple as that, so it's not like you complaining will get anymore done.

Oh, and for the record, of all the skunks I've seen for sale in the last 6 months, I'd say 99% were de-scented imports, so now it seems if you want one, you have a de-scented import, like it or not.


----------



## animalsbeebee (May 19, 2008)

Sorry to be dim,but what is the actual reason for it to be illegal in uk.


----------



## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

Hi ABB, 

It was considered unethical by the RCVS, as well as classed as mutilation.

R


----------



## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

animalsbeebee said:


> Sorry to be dim,but what is the actual reason for it to be illegal in uk.


 It's an un-nessisary (sp) mutilation of an animal in the eyes of the law. Like docking a dogs tail, it serves no purpose on a domestic animal. They can however be removed if the removal is considered "essential for the well being and health of the animal" I.e prooven working stock dogs can have tails docked, and a skunk with a tumour on the sent gland(s) could have them removed because of that. If they are removed with out such a reason it is illegal


----------



## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

muskrat said:


> I don't think people should not be allowed to have skunks as pets, I just think they should not have skunks as accessories.
> 
> Why descent a skunk, they is no reason for this unless you want a cute little animal you can pet. If this is what you want, get a puppy or kitten.
> 
> ...


i dont think a skunk can ever be classed as an accessory as the amount of care and trouble they get in to anyone who gets one for an accessory wont last more than a week with it they dig out the trash get into cupboards raid fridges dont always use there toilet tray dig up the carpet when they want in a room dose this sound like a fashion accessory?
and if it wasent for the fact mine has been descent ed i would have been evicted from my house because most landlords wont allow full scented ones. p.s if you read on wikkapidia skunks at one point used to live in scotland wild before the fur trade and where wiped out and after where bred in captivity for there fur and when that was closed down a few where kept for the pet trade.


----------



## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

No, they shouldn't be de-scented, it's done for the humans benefit alone, therefore in my eyes it is 'cosmetic' surgery.


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Fixx said:


> No, they shouldn't be de-scented, it's done for the humans benefit alone, therefore in my eyes it is 'cosmetic' surgery.


Are either of your skunks de-scented?

John


----------



## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Reptile world said:


> Are either of your skunks de-scented?
> 
> John


We have four, two intact, two de-scented.

Your point being?


----------



## JPReptiles (Dec 2, 2007)

Fixx said:


> We have four, two intact, two de-scented.
> 
> Your point being?


I don't remember saying i had a point?..

How are yours? as in, is there a difference in the behavior/character from de-scented - intact?

I have had a de-scented in the past,so im curious to know if there is any differences apart from the obvious.

John


----------



## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

A little harsh on MuskRat I feel here guys! 

I am against de-scenting of skunks, as I feel it is taking away their natural defense mechanism. Just as I am against wing-clipping parrots.


----------



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

De-scenting of skunks is ILLEGAL.

Since the introduction of the Animal Welfare Act, surgical procedures which are not of any medical benefit are ILLEGAL.

It is not an offence to buy a skunk which has been descented abroad and imported, poviding it has been quarantined correctly as it is a species subject to qurantine control. 

however, it is illegal to have a skunk descented in the UK. If convicted you face a life ban on keeping animals, and the vet who did the procedure struck off. Is it really worth it??


----------



## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

Fixx said:


> We have four, two intact, two de-scented.


Make that five :whistling2:


----------



## Talk To The Animals (Jan 10, 2008)

Does anyone know how the de-scenting is actually done? I've had a look on google but can't find out and I'd just like to know out of interest really. Both of ours are done!


----------



## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Talk To The Animals said:


> Does anyone know how the de-scenting is actually done? I've had a look on google but can't find out and I'd just like to know out of interest really. Both of ours are done!


Isnt the sacks containg the fluid slit or something along them lines 

dont hold me on that just something i had heard so may be totally wrong


----------



## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I read that the scent glands are removed.


----------



## Fixx (May 6, 2006)

The two glands/ducts are just inside the anus, one on each side. At around 6-8 weeks old the nerves around the anus have not developed properly and after anesthetising the young skunk the tip of one of the glands is grasped in a pair of forceps/tweezers and the tissue surrounding the gland is gently pushed/scraped back until the gland is fully exposed. It is then cut off carefully at the base and the jobs done. 
If the skunk is de-scented older than 8 weeks there is a chance of nerve damage occurring.

There is a site somewhere with some photographs of the operation but I cannot find it for the life of me.


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

you don't have to do it like that either..

you can have it done where an incision is made on either side of the anus, and the glands are accessed from "behind" so to speak.. once the gland is exposed, it can be removed from the stem holding it with the animal. i saw 4 done early last year just before the laws changed, and having seen many castrations too in surgery and in the field, there is not a lot of difference in the time and complexity of the operation.

done this way, you do not need to go in via the anal passage which i think does less damage in general long term

i personally prefer that method to the idea of grabbing the end of the gland in tweezers and scraping back the tissue from it... 

having spoken to people who do it that way.. most of the time they don't even use an anesthetic.. i have been talked through doing it.. but.. have not fancied trying it myself.. even if it were legal.

N


----------



## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

So people are against battery chickens. But free range chickens wings are often clipped to prevent them from flying. Is this a modification??? What about people with pet parrots that have their wings clipped is this modification???? Afterall these are done so that humans can handle the animals better.

I agree with descenting as i do not believe it harms the animals. Ok they are not 100% natural but surely if u wanted the skunk to be in its natural environment u wouldnt have 1 as a pet? Also most skunks are bred in captivity which means before they have been descented they probably havent used the scent glands so tbh dont miss them when they have gone.


----------



## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i'm sort of in two minds..

i would keep them regardless, but i am lucky in my situation, and i do not mind a bit of chaos here and there.... a scented skunk however well socialised does still go off from time to time.. and yes.. there is a risk to other household pets when they do so.. even if they only go off once, and thats the time it gets the dog.. or the kids.. in the face.. thats often enough for some...

feathers.. grow back.. i know what you are saying, but i also know the counter arguments.. for me the more powerful one is the castration of a male animal.. a similar surgical "cost" in terms of time and operation.. but one that leaves the animal forever changed in personality and bahaviour, in terms of the castration that is..

many animals are not castrated for health reasons.. or for breeding reasons.. (if you have a male cat who lives indoors his whole life.. why castrate him?? he will never meet a female, so why do it?? same works for things like house rabbits and so on.. even dogs too)

man kind has been adapting animals since the first human ever kept them.. whether it be breaking them to carry our loads.. and developing horses from shires to shetlands.. or dogs.. from great danes to chi's.. they all come from the same root stock, they have all be made to evolve along a human decided path... man adapts all animals he lives with in some ways.. is it worse to keep a tiger in a cage? or de-scent a skunk? neither is "natural" yet one is accepted and the other.. is not??

i'll keep them anyway, skunks, scented, de scented.. nutters or cuddlers.. makes no odds to me.. 

but it does annoy me that there are some people who no longer feel they have the choice to keep them because of the change in the law last year.. that i think is a shame.

the skunks. i believe.. do not become changed animals from having the op.. nor is the op, when done correctly, likely to cause any harm in the ongoing condition of the animal.. when done badly.. yes.. of course there can be complications.. which is why i would rather see it legal to do by a qualified vet surgeon and banned the likes of the "home breeders" from doing it.

i mean one guy, tells me he does his with a bowl of cold water, a teaspoon and no anesthetic.. to me.. that does sound like the sort of thing which could be considered as barbaric as the castration of pigs with elastic bands.. another practice that the human race as a whole, think is OK to do..

N


----------

