# komodo



## xx-Charlie-xx

i cant find anything online that makes me think i need a licence to have a komodo. i can get one, and get it into the country but dont want to go through all this to have it taken away, does anyone know any laws regarding them. got nerys and rory looking into it, but just wondering if anyone here knows anything. thanks


----------



## amy101

you dont need any licencing, were meant to be getting one end of the year. but no licence needed.


----------



## Mason

I was under the impression a zoo licence was involved somewhere.


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

i kinda have a mini zoo, does that count lol


----------



## jaysnakeman

you would need to meet the cites requirements as they are appendix 1


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

do u know what those requirements are?


----------



## Fixx

xx-Charlie-xx said:


> do u know what those requirements are?


The animal should come with an Article 10, which holds it's chip implant number and other identification details. It also dictates what the animal can be used for, education, commercial etc..

As far as I am aware there are no Komodos available in the UK which would mean you would have to import one. If this is from Europe (EU) then no other paperwork is required for you to import it into the UK. 
If it was from outside the EU then you will need an import permit from DEFRA and an export permit from the authorities relevant in the exporting country. This is where a lot of time and a lot of patience can be very useful.

Talk to Rich at Shropshire Exotics he's pretty au fait with import/export matters


----------



## 400runner

sounds interesting. wonder if we'll start to see komodo's a bit more in the coming years. i've always liked the idea of croc monitors but what the point if you can have a komodo!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brat

Owning a Komodo would be madness!
They're amazing, dinosaur-like lizards but being as dangerous as they are, I'd not like to own one! Can't believe you don't need a license.. that's stupid!


----------



## HABU

Brat said:


> Owning a Komodo would be madness!
> They're amazing, dinosaur-like lizards but being as dangerous as they are, I'd not like to own one! Can't believe you don't need a license.. that's stupid!


 
so true!!.... i dislike being prey!


----------



## Brat

I can imagine they'd need one hell of an enclosure too, and a very secure one at that. Also - their food bills would be enormous!


----------



## lukendaniel

dont go off at me i know your not asking for opinions on this but i just googled them as other than there big no naff all about them. i got size 8-10 feet. weight 150-200lbs. thats huuuuuggee. i appologise if u do, but have you space to accomodate a lizard that is going to get this big and be big enough/strong enough to move it. i know i cant pick up 150lbs and im not small. 

anyway sorry for butting in on ur thread 

daniel


----------



## HABU

i had a big asian water monitor... that was plenty!!


----------



## Brat

They're also the most dangerous lizard in the world and wouldn't think twice about ripping apart and eating a human lol.. That is enough for me to wanna stay looking at them behind glass in a Zoo, and not having one at home!


----------



## Brat

HABU said:


> i had a big asian water monitor... that was plenty!!


These on the other hand, are gorgeous!
Im not saying Komodo's aren't.. They fascinate me, but imo are not the type of thing you could keep comfortably in the UK, unless you're a Zoo.


----------



## HABU

i have a pic with my nefew at the zoo with a komodo!!! i can't find it but you should see his face!!:lol2:


----------



## kaimarion

They aren't the hardest to tame from what I have read and the enclosure would need to be the likes of 30x30 but I think 20x20 would be plenty.


----------



## ArranP

20x20 as in km?


----------



## lukendaniel

well a 20ft x20 ft is huge and i would suspect its would be around that kind of size. thats nearly as big as my house. 

i think unless u have some serious space and time these guys should be left to the zoos if u want to see em

daniel


----------



## HABU

they are a force of nature......


----------



## DeanThorpe

Any monitor can hurt you, obviously with the komodo hurt becomes possibly kill...
But I assume most that are going to be at all available from europe would be captive bred, as I know thier are captive breds about, with that in mind the chances of them taming up/mellowing out is just liek any othe rmonitor lizard.

I personally think maybe unless you have a good ten years experience with other large monitors....its possibly an insane idea but then im sure the people who work with them at zoos arent all that experienced so its all about taking the precautions and having an escape route.

Wish you all the luck in the world.


----------



## Mason

kaimarion said:


> They aren't the hardest to tame from what I have read and the enclosure would need to be the likes of 30x30 but I think 20x20 would be plenty.


 
from experience?

I've never had tyhe honour of working with one but..

something like you would never be able to trust, no mater how "tame" it was (no such thing as a tame wild animal IMO)


----------



## Athravan

If this animal is not DWA then I very seriously believe it should be.. but that's another debate 

You are very lucky to have the space (20 x 20 as a minimum is the size of the downstairs of my house!), i'm very jealous! The only thing I could say would be even though it's not DWA, I would treat it with a combined rule of DWA & Large constrictors - ie. like large constrictors, don't go interacting with it alone, always have a second person to help if anything goes wrong, and like DWA, have warning signs, a very secure lock, and some sort of protocol in place in case it escapes, or does an injury.

You'd have to be absolutely certain that it could not come into contact with other reptiles, cats, dogs, small animals, or children really... as then it really would be dangerous.


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

its deffinatly something i want to consider getting, gonna stay with my dad for a few eeks in the summer and see what its like with his. i think in this country people cant really have expereince with lizards of this size. ive spent all my life around boscs and other large lizards and i really feel its time to consider a new challenge. as for the enclosure i would have something built in the garden, which is indoor and outdoor. luckily enough im blessed with a massive garden. its gonna be a year or 2 before i get one but its something i want to start looking into.


----------



## 400runner

well i think you deserve respect for wanting to try it and to do it all properly! absolutely amazing things! i've got my salvator coming next week so i'll see how i get on with that before i get a komodo lol. 
i was reading a book i've got the other day and apparently some australian scientists have discovered that a part of their saliva constitutes as a real venom so this would obviously be another reason to add them to dwa, i personally believe that salvadorii should be on there too. i don't know if this is yet widely accepted but thats what they've found anyway!


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

yea komodos do have toxic saliva, although from what i know its not deadly. but might be wrong


----------



## DeanThorpe

I believe it can be deadly..its not a venom but has very nast qualities.
gettin bitten isnt the idea though im sure and any bite would no doubt require medical attention including any safeguards against the reaction from the saliva.


----------



## SiUK

it is actually venom, it can kill you and people have died but its kind of not a direct result.


----------



## AZUK

Komodos are one of the only Reptiles Known to predate on humans.
Although they are not venomous in the true sense (having no venom producing facility) their saliva is highly Toxic as it contains some pretty vile Bacteria derived from the rotting flesh that remains in the lizards mouth. Bites introduce these Bacteria into the preys blood stream and cause all manner of nasties including septicemia which is what their prey usually die from.
Kommodos are know to seriously inflict wounds on large prey items from an ambush point, the prey will flee but succumb to the Bacteria laced saliva and die where upon the Komodo will track it's victim and consume.
Smaller prey is attacked killed and disembowed on the spot.

I have seen these lizard for sale from time to time, the last price If I remember correctly was around £5000.

You wound need a huge enclosure to keep a single animal with any success. Such an enclosure would prove very expensive to heat/maintain and would be very difficult/dangerous to work within.

I am thoroughly opposed to keeping these monsters as pets, however cool they may be. If your desperate for a large monitor that wants to maim you you can borrow my Nile for a week and see how you get on :crazy:


----------



## Trice

As far as i know they havent isolated alot of the forms of bacteria that are in Komodo's saliva. There are so many different types it's mental. A bite from one i'm pretty sure would kill or require the amputation of what ever they bit.

They're a large animal, arent they the largest living lizards in the world? I wouldn't ever consider taking one of these from the wild and keeping it as a pet. I would love to go see them in the wild. Would be like a trip that'd keep me happy for the rest of my life. But to take one of these endangered animals from the wild to house it for no other reason than personal gain (not just talking about money here) wouldn't be for me.

To be honest, if it is possible to have one of these as pets, i'd probably see it too dangerous to keep if you have kids around, and other animals, which i think you do charlie?


----------



## DeanThorpe

I think there are captive bred komodos.
A secure enclosure is amust whether theres kids or pets or not.

siuk...
there seems to be soem debate, can you educate me on the definition of "venom" so we can all agree?


----------



## SiUK

theres been a scientific study into it very recently il see if I can find the paper.


----------



## Rob123

from reading "giant lizards" by sprackland, he says in captivity komodo's adjust and "tame" really well. and salvadorii isnt as big as made out. they have approx 210 to 240% tail, makin water monitors generally a larger species.


----------



## Fangio

400runner said:


> sounds interesting. wonder if we'll start to see komodo's a bit more in the coming years. i've always liked the idea of croc monitors but what the point if you can have a komodo!!!!!!!!!!


Croc monitors are waaaaay prettier animals. I'm really not keen on Komodo's.


----------



## Fangio

xx-Charlie-xx said:


> yea komodos do have toxic saliva, although from what i know its not deadly. but might be wrong


Old Tv prog I saw stated there were 57 different toxins in their saliva and 8(I think) were potentially fatal to humans.

All I know is that I wouldn't like to be the one testing it out


----------



## Lucifus

Afaik its not venom as such, its bacteria that grows naturally in the mouth.

There has also been the same research with Bosc Monitors as i "believe" they are somewhat related. Boscs also have bacteria in their mouths but its only deadly to invertebrates.


----------



## Evie

Just want to check that none of you future owners live next door to me - 'cos I'm moving if you do! :lol2:


----------



## Fangio

Lucifus said:


> Afaik its not venom as such, its bacteria that grows naturally in the mouth.
> 
> There has also been the same research with Bosc Monitors as i "believe" they are somewhat related. Boscs also have bacteria in their mouths but its only deadly to invertebrates.


I think all monitors have "dirty mouths" to an extent, some worse than others. A friend of mine ended up in A&E with a swollen hand from an ackie bite.


----------



## 400runner

There has in fact been a study in australia where they concluded that komodo's do produce their own "venom". i wouldn't have written it if it wasn't true. that doesn't mean toxins or bacteria, but "venom".
as i said i don't know if its accepted scientifically yet but thats what it said the book i've got! the book is called Venom and is by Steve Backshall


----------



## Fixx

Lucifus said:


> Afaik its not venom as such, its bacteria that grows naturally in the mouth.
> 
> There has also been the same research with Bosc Monitors as i "believe" they are somewhat related. Boscs also have bacteria in their mouths but its only deadly to invertebrates.


"
The lizards are more closely related to snakes than previously thought and produce a similar venom, researchers have found.
Bryan Fry, of the Australian Venom Research Unit at the University of Melbourne, said his team's surprise discovery could lead to the development of new medicines based on lizard toxins.
"These molecules represent a tremendous, hitherto unexplored resource for utilisation in drug design," he said.
Goannas are monitor lizards, a group which includes the Komodo dragon.
Dr Fry said that because these carnivores fed on carrion in the wild, toxic bacteria in their mouths had long been blamed for the pain, swelling and prolonged bleeding caused by bites.
His suspicions were alerted, however, when he saw a zookeeper in Singapore develop symptoms rapidly after being bitten by a captive Komodo dragon which had been brought up on fresh food.
"It didn't sit right with me; bacteria don't work that fast," Dr Fry said.
When he studied an Australian lace monitor, or common goanna, the closest living relative of a Komodo dragon, he found a huge gland running down the side of its jaw. Squeezing it released the venom.
"You could see it pooling at the base of the teeth. It's amazing what you find when you look."
His international team, which includes researchers from Monash University, has identified nine types of toxins from lizard venom which snakes also produce. One toxin found in the venom of the bearded dragon, one of the most popular pet lizards in the world, had previously been identified only in rattlesnake venom.
However, Dr Fry said goanna lovers need not be alarmed, because the venom in these lizards was not present in amounts large enough to cause serious harm. Unlike snakes, lizards do not have fangs to inject venom into their prey.
The research, which is published today in the journal _Nature_, suggests venom systems in reptiles evolved only once, and much earlier than had been thought - about 200 million years ago - in a common ancestor of snakes and lizards.
The team also found iguanas produced venom. Before the study, only two species of lizards from North America, the Gila monster and the Mexican beaded lizard, were known to produce venom and it had been thought they evolved this ability independently of snakes.
Dr Fry, who has previously worked with highly venomous snakes, said he enjoyed being able to relax while studying goannas. "They're beautiful animals," he said.
Last week he was awarded a $145,000 Australian Research Council grant to study lizard venom. Venom from lace monitors has already been found to have a strong effect on blood pressure and blood clotting."


----------



## 400runner

thankyou fixx! well i believe brian fry!


----------



## skimsa

i remember vaguely seeing a programme where a komodo bit a bufflao and followed it for a day or so and it died from the bacteria in the blood


----------



## SSamm

Reading one of the replies saying how they are the biggest lizard, and should be left in the wild.

Yet at the same time, weve taken all the largest snakes out of captivity, ages ago it would been considered insane to own a snake that COULD reach 30 foot.


----------



## Incubuss

The DWAL needs revising big time. Komodo's SHOULD be on it, where as ,some of the buthid scorps shouldn't. The DWAL should be sorted out by people that know what they are talking about.


----------



## Lucifus

You learn something new every day. :lol2:


----------



## Brat

skimsa said:


> i remember vaguely seeing a programme where a komodo bit a bufflao and followed it for a day or so and it died from the bacteria in the blood


There's no need for the Komodo to follow it as it can track it down with his sense of smell from a few km away. They're amazing swimmers too, not sure if water is essential but you may need a huge pool to consider too. Also the fact they can climb so the enclosure would need to be extremely secure with a roof overhead.
I just don't think an animal of that size is fit for a "pet" at all.
The bacteria in their mouth is from the digusting state of some of the rotten meat off carcases they rip apart and eat, and yes it can be deadly as a bite from one would poison your blood very quickly..


----------



## 400runner

Brat said:


> There's no need for the Komodo to follow it as it can track it down with his sense of smell from a few km away. They're amazing swimmers too, not sure if water is essential but you may need a huge pool to consider too. Also the fact they can climb so the enclosure would need to be extremely secure with a roof overhead.
> I just don't think an animal of that size is fit for a "pet" at all.
> The bacteria in their mouth is from the digusting state of some of the rotten meat off carcases they rip apart and eat, and yes it can be deadly as a bite from one would poison your blood very quickly..


yeah but if it let it get away and the buffalo died another komodo would eat it wouldn't it so it was obviously trying to guard its meal


----------



## Issa

your_only_nightmare said:


> Reading one of the replies saying how they are the biggest lizard, and should be left in the wild.
> 
> Yet at the same time, weve taken all the largest snakes out of captivity, ages ago it would been considered insane to own a snake that COULD reach 30 foot.


Many still would class you as insane if you had a snake that big living in your front room, hell my mother hasn't set foot in my house since the boas arrived and they will never set close to that size.


----------



## Brat

400runner said:


> yeah but if it let it get away and the buffalo died another komodo would eat it wouldn't it so it was obviously trying to guard its meal


No actually, Komodo's can share quite well when it comes to mealtimes...


----------



## Voodoo Royal Morphs

HABU said:


> so true!!.... i dislike being prey!


 
:lol2:


----------



## SSamm

Issa said:


> Many still would class you as insane if you had a snake that big living in your front room, hell my mother hasn't set foot in my house since the boas arrived and they will never set close to that size.


 
thats a good point... my mum has got used to them and picks them up now!


----------



## markandwend

Didnt Sharon Stones husband (ex husband?) get bitten off one and died or nealy died???


----------



## Rikki

surely IF the toxicity of the saliva is derived from the decompsing flesh of the prey, it won't be present in a captive bred specimen feeding upon fresh killed / defrosted prey?


----------



## carisma02uk

Rikki said:


> surely IF the toxicity of the saliva is derived from the decompsing flesh of the prey, it won't be present in a captive bred specimen feeding upon fresh killed / defrosted prey?


 
n saying that the hognose is supposed to use the toxins from the skin of the forgs and toads it eats in the wild but they still hold their venom...

ive seen very large salvs that are stupid tame, as they have no natural preditors they dont have the general nervious or aggressive temps like other monitors...
so your not seen as much of a threat.... so to speak. but could be seen as a nice snack.

the enclosure would do better beging sunk into the ground like a meerkat enclosure with the added extras of a triple glazed roof and upper sides.. also an entrance seperate to the enclosure with clear vison points to the immediate enclosure access points would be advisable as they love to abush as been stated.. you may also want to think about a roof top access point or other un obtainable area to sort means of feeding, the last thing you would want is to open and door and have to drag a cow carcase into it and get charged by a 'DO' and not be able to close your doors intime...

Jon..


----------



## Fangio

markandwend said:


> Didnt Sharon Stones husband (ex husband?) get bitten off one and died or nealy died???


At a zoo yes but survived.

BBC News | SHOWBIZ | Lizard bites Sharon Stone's husband

The interview makes for interesting reading....the zoo said they allow kids to get in the enclosure and pet the komodo!!!!!

Transcript: Sharon Stone vs. the Komodo Dragon - TIME


----------



## DeanThorpe

Siuk...
i think what fixx posted is what you were talking about? or is there even more.

well..if it comes from a gland...its venom so I belierve it.

to that end then... is it just komodos [out of the mopnitors] that have these glands and hence venom rather than just bacteria [dirty mouths] then?
does anyone know?


----------



## Fangio

DeanThorpe said:


> Siuk...
> i think what fixx posted is what you were talking about? or is there even more.
> 
> well..if it comes from a gland...its venom so I belierve it.
> 
> to that end then... is it just komodos [out of the mopnitors] that have these glands and hence venom rather than just bacteria [dirty mouths] then?
> does anyone know?


Well according to the article Fixx posted the lace monitor has a similar gland. Further than that I don't know.[/not very helpful]


----------



## DeanThorpe

oh yeh i did read that DOH lol
cool, never seen a lace.


----------



## SiUK

yeh thats what I was talking about its Dr Frys research that found it out, theres a more in depth paper somewhere but I cant find it at the moment


----------



## DeanThorpe

cool, when you come across it would love to read it dude.


----------



## SiUK

heres a transcript from an interview with Dry Fry about it, il keep looking for the paper

The Science Show: 3 December  2005  - Bite of the Komodo Dragon


----------



## Viperkeeper

That's a CITES appendix 1 animal, and endangered species covered by international treaty. You need to be a Zoo or research facility to import those no matter where you live. Getting caught with a CITES 1 specimen in the US sends you to jail , if convicted.

Al


----------



## Mason

Mason said:


> I was under the impression a zoo licence was involved somewhere.


I think it is the same over here Al. It hink a zoo licence is required for import ownership.

Where are Nerys and Rory when you need them :lol:


----------



## DeanThorpe

Viperkeeper said:


> That's a CITES appendix 1 animal, and endangered species covered by international treaty. You need to be a Zoo or research facility to import those no matter where you live. Getting caught with a CITES 1 specimen in the US sends you to jail , if convicted.
> 
> Al


so nothing to do with it being cites appendix one then?
as we can keep other cites 1 reptiles such as fiji iguanas without a zoo license...
or can you not in the us?


----------



## brian

Trice said:


> As far as i know they havent isolated alot of the forms of bacteria that are in Komodo's saliva. There are so many different types it's mental.


52 to be precise :whistling2:


----------



## Mujician

Am i the only one that read the part that charlie said her dad has one?! Sod the Zoo, Charlie, can we visit your dad?!


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

lol he lives in australia, he has a rescue for komodos. cant wait to go out there and see them, oh and him lol


----------



## JPReptiles

I think endangered species such as komodo dragons should be left in the wild.
Unless you are a rescue center for them.....
There are plenty more large monitor species that can be worked with and are far less likely to cause any harm to you and the wild population.

John


----------



## Mason

Reptile world said:


> I think endangered species such as komodo dragons should be left in the wild.
> Unless you are a rescue center for them.....
> There are plenty more large monitor species that can be worked with and are far less likely to cause any harm to you and the wild population.
> 
> John


no idea just how rare/endagered some of the other COMMONLY kept species are then? Probably some species you keep..


----------



## JPReptiles

Mason said:


> no idea just how rare/endagered some of the other COMMONLY kept species are then? Probably some species you keep..


No.... i do not keep endangered species.
But thank you anyway : victory:

John


----------



## Issa

Reptile world said:


> I think endangered species such as komodo dragons should be left in the wild.
> Unless you are a rescue center for them.....
> There are plenty more large monitor species that can be worked with and are far less likely to cause any harm to you and the wild population.
> 
> John


I disagree with this statement to a degree. Some species your right should probably be left in the wild, other endangered species imo could easily be saved from extinction by marketing them as a suitable pet. Private breeders have a better sucess rate on the whole as often they are financially motivated to succeed. Just my opinion but a rare species that is in the pet trade is far better setup for long term survival than something protected by law that ends up dying out due to habitat destruction.


----------



## JPReptiles

Issa said:


> I disagree with this statement to a degree. Some species your right should probably be left in the wild, other endangered species imo could easily be saved from extinction by marketing them as a suitable pet. Private breeders have a better sucess rate on the whole as often they are financially motivated to succeed. Just my opinion but a rare species that is in the pet trade is far better setup for long term survival than something protected by law that ends up dying out due to habitat destruction.


There is certain species that would do well i agree, but (komodo dragons) where do you draw the line???

John


----------



## Issa

Me personally I balk at keeping anything that can potentially eat me, I don't particulaly like the idea of being looked upon as a dietry suppliment by anything in my care. Other people don't see this as a problem however, you only have to look at how many giant snake/lizard people frequent these forums. This may be a minority opinion but as long as their welfare needs are met properly I don't see any problem in most species being kept privately.


----------



## RAPID-FIRE

i want 3


----------



## DeanThorpe

I really do honestly think and im not sure if im being ignored OR if you guys know better.. BUT I am under the impression thatthe komodos likely to be on sale...are captive bred.


----------



## mcald

Steve Irwin once said, "I'd prefer to be bitten by an 8ft Saltwater Crocodile than an 8ft Komodo Dragon." There bacteria in there saliva is very deadly. So be careful!: victory:


----------



## Mason

DeanThorpe said:


> I really do honestly think and im not sure if im being ignored OR if you guys know better.. BUT I am under the impression thatthe komodos likely to be on sale...are captive bred.


I agree, a great deal will be zoo bred or similar, even zoos will have a limit to the amount of komodos they can house.


----------



## Dirtydozen

i totally disagree with one of these being a pet


----------



## JPReptiles

Dirtydozen said:


> i totally disagree with one of these being a pet


Thank you.....

John


----------



## DeanThorpe

who said pet?
guess it depends on definition...
if a zoo can keep them...why not a private keeper with the same level of attention, standards and abilities to house and maintain? research? and the rest...


----------



## RAPID-FIRE

i still want 3


----------



## JPReptiles

Does anybody actually know how much they will be :lol2:

John


----------



## ArranP

carisma02uk said:


> n saying that the hognose is supposed to use the toxins from the skin of the forgs and toads it eats in the wild but they still hold their venom...
> 
> ive seen very large salvs that are stupid tame, as they have no natural preditors they dont have the general nervious or aggressive temps like other monitors...
> so your not seen as much of a threat.... so to speak. but could be seen as a nice snack.
> 
> the enclosure would do better beging sunk into the ground like a meerkat enclosure with the added extras of a triple glazed roof and upper sides.. also an entrance seperate to the enclosure with clear vison points to the immediate enclosure access points would be advisable as they love to abush as been stated.. you may also want to think about a roof top access point or other un obtainable area to sort means of feeding, the last thing you would want is to open and door and have to drag a cow carcase into it and get charged by a 'DO' and not be able to close your doors intime...
> 
> Jon..



That reminds me so much of Jurassic Park with the raptor enclosure


----------



## Fangio

Viperkeeper said:


> That's a CITES appendix 1 animal, and endangered species covered by international treaty. You need to be a Zoo or research facility to import those no matter where you live. Getting caught with a CITES 1 specimen in the US sends you to jail , if convicted.
> 
> Al


We can house other CITES appendix 1 animals without a zoo license so I don't think komodo's would be any different (assuming they are CB).


----------



## talltom69

20x20 I guess were going to have to take into account how tall they are aswell once standing on their hind legs, fook that as a pet:


----------



## Viperkeeper

Fangio said:


> We can house other CITES appendix 1 animals without a zoo license so I don't think komodo's would be any different (assuming they are CB).


We can too but it has to be captive born with papers to prove it.










I was alway giving the Rangers heart failure on the island by getting much closer than they thought was safe.










Coming down the jungle path there was this in the middle of the path. You had to choose the path or the brush along side the path hiding Russlles Vipers.. I took the brush! :crazy:

*I move.... for NO man*


----------



## JPReptiles

DeanThorpe said:


> who said pet?
> guess it depends on definition...
> if a zoo can keep them...why not a private keeper with the same level of attention, standards and abilities to house and maintain? research? and the rest...


Zoo's do it for conservation not as a hobby.....

John


----------



## JPReptiles

Also doe's anybody have a price yet???

John


----------



## Dirtydozen

the OP is wanting one as a pet


----------



## DeanThorpe

Reptile world said:


> Zoo's do it for conservation not as a hobby.....
> 
> John


No they dont, they do it as a way of getting the public to see the animals and make a bit of money.
Conservation comes into it with endangered species of course, but so does it for the private keeper.


----------



## JPReptiles

DeanThorpe said:


> No they dont, they do it as a way of getting the public to see the animals and make a bit of money.
> Conservation comes into it with endangered species of course, but so does it for the private keeper.


So the people on here who want a komodo dragon are going to be breeding them for conservation purposes and will be letting them go back into the wild? 

John


----------



## Gaboon

:lol2: Wonder why no one keeps great white sharks? Do you really think you could provide any sort of descent care for a Komodo? :lol2:


----------



## JPReptiles

Gaboon said:


> :lol2: Wonder why no one keeps great white sharks? Do you really think you could provide any sort of descent care for a Komodo? :lol2:


Im sure the CITIES papers alone would be in the thousands??? Correct me if i a wrong, but nobody has a price yet?
Why not get a water monitor???

John


----------



## DeanThorpe

Reptile world said:


> So the people on here who want a komodo dragon are going to be breeding them for conservation purposes and will be letting them go back into the wild?
> 
> John


is that what zoos do then?
im not arguing..but if a zoo can do something for xx reasons... then so can a private keeepr for those same xx reasons.

And to be honest...if its available...and legal...and done safely... whats the problem?


----------



## JPReptiles

DeanThorpe said:


> is that what zoos do then?
> im not arguing..but if a zoo can do something for xx reasons... then so can a private keeepr for those same xx reasons.
> 
> And to be honest...if its available...and legal...and done safely... whats the problem?


My concern is when they outgrow the spaces that keepers are going to provide. I would love nothing more than to have a komodo dragon! But what happens when it feels hungry and your leg looks like a nice meal for it??? I have kept large monitor species in the past and i know what hard work they can be, now if you times that by 10! i would say thats what a komodo would be like to keep......
Im not trying to have a go at anybody im just thinking there is gonna be a lot of problems with this.......
One other question do people think that caimans should be on DWA?

John


----------



## Mason

Last time i saw a komodo offered for sale it was in the region of £5k IIRC.

I completely agree though that it is completely beyond most people budgets and space to provide adequate care for a komodo.


----------



## Young_Gun

If you can provide adequate care and have a good head on your shoulders I couldn't see a problem with it, I would say 30x30 minimum though over 20x20 as the distance they can cover in a single day for surpasses 10miles.

They have dedicated venoms with anti-coagulent and necrosing properties.

A contact of mine has one in Indonesia and he has a 50x70 warehouse for his single male.

I have seen them advertised for between £5 - £15k, but I haven't seen any for sale in the EU personally.


----------



## DeanThorpe

agree with the last 3 posts [so all since my last]

Reptile world, so i agree with what you just said..[apart from the x it by ten...as i think its rather random] .its odd i didnt with any of your prior posts...wierd... 

when i say "if you can care for it"
being able to provide a suitable enclosure comes into it.
As does being able to afford it and its upkeep.

as for danger level..im no expert but they aint THAT much biger or badder than the next largest monitors...
its just its a very much "unknown" thing and they have a reputation...
if komodos DID NOT EXIST..the runner up would have the reputation the komodo currently holds....and be deemed unsuitable as pets...

oh..like green iggys...although thats anothe rmatter sorry just a random thought.

if a komods needs 20x30 [and whatever it is that gets you to that figure] 
what does a bosc really need?
or a nile?


just curious...again its cos its unknown more than anything i think.


----------



## MBurt

komodo dragon?

like the man eater?

you must be joking


----------



## a.m.phibian

I think people are seeming to forget a small detail here...The animals welfare, and what's actually fair. Yes, you could put a komodo in a 20 x 20.............mile cage. 20 x 20 foot, or 30 x 20 foot is a completely unnacceptable living space for a species that covers such a large range physically in the wild. It also disgusts me that some medium size monitors can be seen in 6 x 3 feet cages in petshops...how could anyone say they really care for their animals when the lizards 2 or 3 feet long already!. I've got a breeding group of fire salamanders in a 7 x 4 outdoor enclosure and every now again i wonder 'is it right?'. But the size of the cages that monitors and green igs are often kept in is very very cruel and i defy anyone to tell me different. Apologies if this causes offence but i do feel very strongly on this issue.


----------



## SiUK

a.m.phibian said:


> I think people are seeming to forget a small detail here...The animals welfare, and what's actually fair. Yes, you could put a komodo in a 20 x 20.............mile cage. 20 x 20 foot, or 30 x 20 foot is a completely unnacceptable living space for a species that covers such a large range physically in the wild. It also disgusts me that some medium size monitors can be seen in 6 x 3 feet cages in petshops...how could anyone say they really care for their animals when the lizards 2 or 3 feet long already!. I've got a breeding group of fire salamanders in a 7 x 4 outdoor enclosure and every now again i wonder 'is it right?'. But the size of the cages that monitors and green igs are often kept in is very very cruel and i defy anyone to tell me different. Apologies if this causes offence but i do feel very strongly on this issue.


think of zoos, they dont have 20x20 mile komodo enclosures, alot of animals that would travel many miles in the wild dont have the space in zoos or even safari parks, as well as the pets we all keep theeir range in the wild is alot more than the vivs we use, doesnt make it wrong though


----------



## jaysnakeman

SiUK said:


> think of zoos, they dont have 20x20 mile komodo enclosures, alot of animals that would travel many miles in the wild dont have the space in zoos or even safari parks, as well as the pets we all keep theeir range in the wild is alot more than the vivs we use, doesnt make it wrong though


i agree mate


----------



## a.m.phibian

SiUK said:


> think of zoos, they dont have 20x20 mile komodo enclosures, alot of animals that would travel many miles in the wild dont have the space in zoos or even safari parks, as well as the pets we all keep theeir range in the wild is alot more than the vivs we use, doesnt make it wrong though


I think it does make it wrong. A 2 foot lizard in a 6 x 3 foot viv isn't cruel? I beg to differ Siuk. I'd love to have a monitor and could buy one tomorrow, but in relation to the size of the animal, to give it a proper home, 3 times the length of it isn't on. Especially considering how far monitors will cover in a day. I just think it's out of order, and i reckon the majority of humanity would agree with me. It'd be the same as me keeping my fire salamanders (for example) in a 54cm long cage or so...That'd make me feel very cruel indeed. Each to their own i suppose.


----------



## RMG

it's ridiculous to even entertain the idea of a hobbyist ever trying to house a komodo dragon properly..

there is one or two people who should know better keeping them privately but it'll all end in tears eventually

zoos have a hard enough time keeping theirs alive under some of the best conditions outside of their natural habitat..they have a very poor record of successful breeding in captivity (the vast majority of those that are bred turn out to be males) and taking more from the wild to continue trying to establish a successful captive breeding is a waste of time and valuable wild females..these animals do fine in the wild and are in no immediate danger of going extinct and/or require re-introductions of captive bred animals

the take home message is if you want to see komodos/conserve them go to Indonsesia and pour some invaluable cash into some of the conservation tourism projects down there so that their habitat and food sources can be conserved hence ensuring survival of the species..

...these animals dont belong in zoos or private collections other more suitable and endangered could do with sucjh huge efforts being invested in them..for example any of the critically endangered Phillipine herpetofauna


----------



## DeanThorpe

HELLO!!!


DID SOMEBODY SAY CAPTIVE BRED??? ....
I Thought so...


----------



## DeanThorpe

a.m.phibian said:


> I think it does make it wrong. A 2 foot lizard in a 6 x 3 foot viv isn't cruel? I beg to differ Siuk. I'd love to have a monitor and could buy one tomorrow, but in relation to the size of the animal, to give it a proper home, 3 times the length of it isn't on. Especially considering how far monitors will cover in a day. I just think it's out of order, and i reckon the majority of humanity would agree with me. It'd be the same as me keeping my fire salamanders (for example) in a 54cm long cage or so...That'd make me feel very cruel indeed. Each to their own i suppose.


Are you just talking about moniors or all lizards, all herps, all animals?
what else do you keep?


----------



## a.m.phibian

DeanThorpe said:


> Are you just talking about moniors or all lizards, all herps, all animals?
> what else do you keep?


I'm talking any herp that's kept in a cage thats only double or 3 times the length of it. Monitors are often a classic example. Now tell me that ain't bang out of order, Dean?. It's like keeping a Moorish Gecko in a cricket tub. 

And i can see the point you are trying to get at, so if you'd like to visit the spacious outdoor enclosures i have for my animals you're more than welcome.


----------



## a.m.phibian

And just to make myself clear, i'm NOT criticising any animal/herp/whatever kept in a cage. The argument here is do people who claim to love reptiles think it's right to keep active monitor lizards in a 6 foot viv?. As i say, you wouldn't keep a Moorish Gecko in a cricket tub. I can't see anyone justifying it, really...and hate seeing monitors/green igs in poxy sized vivs.


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

really starting to wish i hadnt started this now lol


----------



## a.m.phibian

xx-Charlie-xx said:


> really starting to wish i hadnt started this now lol


No harm in dreaming, Charlie  . They're such impressive lizards, easy to see why they would be desired. I just don't think they're suitable for the home hobbyist that's all, but each to their own


----------



## Pennylane6009

*Comodo*



xx-Charlie-xx said:


> really starting to wish i hadnt started this now lol


now that every one has had their say.. and believe me it made for fascinating and at times humourous reading (especially the Sharon Stone interview  ) ... Let me just agree that wild animals are wild.. That research and breeding is good.. That everything is hard work..

AND that Charlie should be allowed to dream and maybe more..


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

Pennylane6009 said:


> now that every one has had their say.. and believe me it made for fascinating and at times humourous reading (especially the Sharon Stone interview  ) ... Let me just agree that wild animals are wild.. That research and breeding is good.. That everything is hard work..
> 
> AND that Charlie should be allowed to dream *and maybe more..*


 
watch this space :whistling2:


----------



## DeanThorpe

a.m.phibian said:


> I'm talking any herp that's kept in a cage thats only double or 3 times the length of it. Monitors are often a classic example. Now tell me that ain't bang out of order, Dean?. It's like keeping a Moorish Gecko in a cricket tub.
> 
> And i can see the point you are trying to get at, so if you'd like to visit the spacious outdoor enclosures i have for my animals you're more than welcome.


Hi.
I was asking, not judging, although im trying to think what size you consider fair, im unsure whether i fall into what you consider out of order or not.

Our bosc is about 2.5-3ft and he is in an 8x4x3... thats less than 3 times his length.
moorish geckos get to what 4 inches? a cricket tub i think is about 7-8 so i guess you mean twice the size is not ok.

so a 2ft beardie in a 4ft viv you must be against?
Ours are kept in a 4x3x3 as opposed to the more usual 4x2x2 but is it acceptable to you or not?

where do you live dude? in the uk or elsewhere?



a.m.phibian said:


> And just to make myself clear, i'm NOT criticising any animal/herp/whatever kept in a cage. The argument here is do people who claim to love reptiles think it's right to keep active monitor lizards in a 6 foot viv?. As i say, you wouldn't keep a Moorish Gecko in a cricket tub. I can't see anyone justifying it, really...and hate seeing monitors/green igs in poxy sized vivs.


----------



## DeanThorpe

bump.

Would like clarification on your opinion please a.m.phibian


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA

HAHA........This one of the funniest threads I've read  thanks guys & gals

Ummmm......

Joel


----------



## a.m.phibian

DeanThorpe said:


> bump.
> 
> Would like clarification on your opinion please a.m.phibian


Er, my post on the 9th of February at 1:07pm...does that not make it quite crystal, Dean?. Although asking me to clarify something i already have, you still haven't clarified my original posts questions to be fair!. It's a black and white question Dean. Do you think it's acceptable to keep an active lizard in a cage only twice or three times it's own length?. Yes or No?. I personally don't think it's anywhere _near_ acceptable, but seeing as Bosc's etc are such a popular lizard, i realise i'll be standing alone with my opinions here. Which is a shame, as i don't think those kind of cage dimensions can be justified by anyone* (especially anyone who truly respects reptiles). I hope this makes it clear, cheers. 

*And as yet, haven't.


----------



## DeanThorpe

huh?
sorry i did not intentionally not answer anything.
surely depth and height and overall size come into it somewhere?
And no your post on the 9th feb at 1-07pm did not make it crystal clear or I wouldnt have asked fo rmore info on your ideas, such as where in the world you live that you can have suitable outside enclosures.
Or that whether for instance a bearded dragon that is under 2 foot is better off in your opinion in a 6x2x2 or a 4x3x3 [the latter having the overall larger areaand being what i use]

I was just trying to understand your opinion in full, clearly its not appreciated and clearly you have a terrible attitude and simply wish to complain rather than explain.

You are not worth bothering with.
No hard feelings but whereas I was hoping to take into account fully what you say, and say what i agree, dissagree with and have a nice disscussion, yourv put me mor ein the mood for simply flipping you the bird and telling you to go fudge yourself ,not that I would do that BUT I do not wish to talk to you anymore so ill end it here.


----------



## Fangio

Going totally off-topic here no captive animal will have the same as what they'd get in the wild. All we can hope to achieve is making the animal in question as happy as possible. Overly large enclosures can make some reptile species feel vunerable so doesn't always work out.


----------



## a.m.phibian

Hello Dean,

I'm starting to wonder if you're our ex PM Tony Blair,.....You're a question dodger mate.

It's a healthy debate. I just wanted to know if you think it's acceptable to keep an animal in a cage that is only two, or even three times maximum, the animals length?.

Yes or no?.


----------



## DeanThorpe

2 times no.
3 times..only if the depth is over the length of the body by atleast 1.5 times also.
and if the hieght is more than 1.5 the length also [for ground dwellers]

what your not understanding is its not just one dimesnsion that comes into it.

I think its acceptable if people keep a beardie or a pir in a 4x2x2 if they do well, eat well, breed fine etc... they must be happy and ok right?

do you keep lizards?
most of the lizards we keep are in vivs way longer than 2-3 times thier length but i see perfectly happy animals in smaller vivs that most people keep them in and i dont think its fair to judge if you dont keep them yourself, especially if focusing on one dimension and not even bothering to comment on overall area.

you have dodged more questions than i have mate...I just liek to know exactly what im answering as your question was stuidly linear.


----------



## kaimarion

a.m.phibian said:


> Er, my post on the 9th of February at 1:07pm...does that not make it quite crystal, Dean?. Although asking me to clarify something i already have, you still haven't clarified my original posts questions to be fair!. It's a black and white question Dean. Do you think it's acceptable to keep an active lizard in a cage only twice or three times it's own length?. Yes or No?. I personally don't think it's anywhere _near_ acceptable, but seeing as Bosc's etc are such a popular lizard, i realise i'll be standing alone with my opinions here. Which is a shame, as i don't think those kind of cage dimensions can be justified by anyone* (especially anyone who truly respects reptiles). I hope this makes it clear, cheers.
> 
> *And as yet, haven't.


Surely the minimum setup size for any lizard is the minimum size they can live stress free in?Anyway not all lizards are goin to be confinde to the cage their full life , have you ever heard of handling and letting them wander the house (supervised) or monitor proofing a room???
What size would you deem apropriate(sp) for a savannah monitor?


----------



## evilangel

xx-Charlie-xx said:


> do u know what those requirements are?


As far as im aware you have more chance sweeping leaves on a windy day than obtaining a komodo. Of course these are protected and You cant just think "hey i wouldnt mind a komodo" even if you could get one what would you feed it on? i suspect its not that easy finding a deer or antelope at your local asda. The nearest your gonna get to one is probably the zoo i have seen them at chester zoo, however it was slightly dissapointing, the young baby komodos live in trees and look like a nile monitor at a glance. You could always go to indonesia and apply for special permission to be allowed on the /"komodo island" but i should imagine you will be greeted with a NO. If its a big monitor your after try the argus, a fair size and a gorgeous lizard.


----------



## Fangio

kaimarion said:


> Surely the minimum setup size for any lizard is the minimum size they can live stress free in?Anyway not all lizards are goin to be confinde to the cage their full life , have you ever heard of handling and letting them wander the house (supervised) or monitor proofing a room???
> What size would you deem apropriate(sp) for a savannah monitor?


There's the other side of it. All monitor/iggie keepers I know let them free-roam to an extent, not all day but for a while. A friend had an iggie in a very tall enclosure but not very long/wide (bare minimum IMO) but for at least half the day the door was open and it had free reign of the house, it returned to the viv to warm up and then it was off again. I see no problems with this personally. Some vivs may be too small in some people's opinions but not all animals are totally confined to them 100% of the time.


----------



## HABU

at my zoo they have several. an entire building is dedicated to them. they have been breeding them like crazy. the indoor "viv" is like 40'x20' or there abouts and it leads to an outdoor display that is huge. they are so bulky that you really can't compare them to the other big monitors. all that i know really is that YOU ARE FOOD TO THEM!!!

as for me, i'm used to being the wolf... not the rabbit in this food chain. i'll try to dig up that pic...


----------



## indigo

DeanThorpe said:


> agree with the last 3 posts [so all since my last]
> 
> Reptile world, so i agree with what you just said..[apart from the x it by ten...as i think its rather random] .its odd i didnt with any of your prior posts...wierd...
> 
> when i say "if you can care for it"
> being able to provide a suitable enclosure comes into it.
> As does being able to afford it and its upkeep.
> 
> as for danger level..im no expert but they aint THAT much biger or badder than the next largest monitors...
> its just its a very much "unknown" thing and they have a reputation...
> if komodos DID NOT EXIST..the runner up would have the reputation the komodo currently holds....and be deemed unsuitable as pets...
> 
> oh..like green iggys...although thats anothe rmatter sorry just a random thought.
> 
> if a komods needs 20x30 [and whatever it is that gets you to that figure]
> what does a bosc really need?
> or a nile?
> 
> 
> just curious...again its cos its unknown more than anything i think.


 have to ask do u no what the hell u r talking about a komodo
is a lot larger than all they should not be in the pet trade and only a fool would try and keep one its people like u that give reptile keepers a bad name wake up and stop dreaming


----------



## Daredevil

Only a retard would not no what a Komodo was 'indigo'...


----------



## BlackRose

I really think these should be on the DWA list. I mean, they are far too dangerous. Such animals, imo should be left to well kept zoos if they really had to be in captivity at all. 
I can see why people would think its not a problem if you have the space and money, but you only have one life and I personally wouldnt risk it, for the sake of having a really big and impressive lizard.
Forgive me in saying this, but I am extremely interested in reptiles and inverts and anything I cant keep or get hold of I research and look at videos of for fun and interest. The same with a komodo. Best look on youtube and wildlife progs and you can see just how fdangerous they are. If a swan can swipe you once with its wing and badly hurt or kill you imagine what something as big as a small dinosaur would do. 
Sorry, im all for being interested and Im not saying it wouldnt be fun and amazing to have one at home if you have it all worked out, but fun and being mesmorised by any sort of animal should be at the bottom of the list of reasons why you would get one.
Let us know what you decide. Just dont get too close thinking you can tame it and take close up shots etc.


----------



## kaimarion

indigo said:


> have to ask do u no what the hell u r talking about a komodo
> is a lot larger than all they should not be in the pet trade and only a fool would try and keep one its people like u that give reptile keepers a bad name wake up and stop dreaming


*:up:IGNORE:up:*​

Nah just kiddin , but "indigo" it really doesnt sound like you know what you are talking about!!!

Komodos are not the most viscous(sp) monitor , they are the largest.​


----------



## Issa

indigo said:


> have to ask do u no what the hell u r talking about a komodo
> is a lot larger than all they should not be in the pet trade and only a fool would try and keep one its people like u that give reptile keepers a bad name wake up and stop dreaming


The same could technically (and has been in the past) be said about big constrictors. Any of the 5 giants are quite capable of killing a human at adult size and more than capable of damaging reptile keepers reputations as a whole in the event of a escape of attack. I would say it takes a certain type of person to keep a giant lizard, but I'd say the same about a 25 foot plus snake as well. As long as their welfare needs are met and they aren't a danger to the public I don't see why they can't be kept.


----------



## Fangio

Issa said:


> The same could technically (and has been in the past) be said about big constrictors. Any of the 5 giants are quite capable of killing a human at adult size and more than capable of damaging reptile keepers reputations as a whole in the event of a escape of attack. I would say it takes a certain type of person to keep a giant lizard, but I'd say the same about a 25 foot plus snake as well. As long as their welfare needs are met and they aren't a danger to the public I don't see why they can't be kept.


Totally agree

If an animals needs *CAN* be met then there's no issue for someone wanting to keep them. I have to say though it's not like every idiot is going to rush out and buy one. Salvators have recorded lengths exceeding the komodo yet these are still easily available.


----------



## ashrob

did the person who actually started this thread actually get a komodo? or had anyone on here said they had one?


----------



## Jade01

she said that she possibly could get one near the end of the year i think, its says in her first post tho, im sure it does


----------



## ashrob

just wondered couldn't be bothered reading 14pages but itd be pretty cool if someone did and id be interested to hear alot about it


----------



## indigo

kaimarion said:


> *:up:IGNORE:up:*​
> 
> 
> Nah just kiddin , but "indigo" it really doesnt sound like you know what you are talking about!!!​
> 
> Komodos are not the most viscous(sp) monitor , they are the largest.​


i have never said i no it all and where did i say most viscous i never to be frank i dont really care what u think i dont agree with the komodo being kept as a pet


----------



## kaimarion

indigo said:


> i have never said i no it all and where did i say most viscous i never to be frank i dont really care what u think i dont agree with the komodo being kept as a pet


A little off topic here but are you on drugs:lol2:???


----------



## HABU

you can have a pet lion, tiger, bear or wolf here without any permit..... people have them all over here. a komodo can be kept and bred but you better have deep pockets is all that i am saying!!:no1:


----------



## mattrolls

Do you seriously think you are getting a komodo? I know you don't need a DWA licence but there is no way that DEFRA will agree with you having one.


----------



## SiUK

HABU said:


> you can have a pet lion, tiger, bear or wolf here without any permit..... people have them all over here. a komodo can be kept and bred but you better have deep pockets is all that i am saying!!:no1:


god bless America:no1::lol2:


----------



## Mason

mattrolls said:


> Do you seriously think you are getting a komodo? I know you don't need a DWA licence but there is no way that DEFRA will agree with you having one.


 
why would defra have a say?

As i've said I am pretty sure you need a licence to keep a komodo, a zoo licence.

But I canot think why DEFRA would have anything to do with it.


----------



## scottish_rep_keepers

*oh dear*

god forget the komodo,are you really gunna keep carrion around ur home and feed it huge meals, why not go the full hog n get a bloody salt water croc or an alligater for christ sake.....................


----------



## SiUK

scottish_rep_keepers said:


> god forget the komodo,are you really gunna keep carrion around ur home and feed it huge meals, why not go the full hog n get a bloody salt water croc or an alligater for christ sake.....................


its not unheard of


----------



## robert-patric

Mason said:


> why would defra have a say?
> 
> As i've said I am pretty sure you need a licence to keep a komodo, a zoo licence.
> 
> But I canot think why DEFRA would have anything to do with it.


You deffinatly need a zoo licence.Also defra have a lot of ''influence'' for want of a better word.As to what zoo's can & cant keep.


----------



## mattrolls

Komodo dragons are listed as Vulnerable on the IUCN red list. They are listed on Appendix I on CITES which means trade in this species is completely restricted without a licence.


----------



## SiUK

mattrolls said:


> Komodo dragons are listed as Vulnerable on the IUCN red list. They are listed on Appendix I on CITES which means trade in this species is completely restricted without a licence.


so are several animals regularly kept in captivity, all you need is the correct paperwork its not really a license just paperwork, I guess that kind of makes it a license though.


----------



## HABU

*V. komodensis are all owned by the governement of Indonesia, are protected by International, national, laws. They are illegal to be transported or moved without permission by the National Zoo in Washington, Interpol, and Indonesioan presidential decree. The animals are under CITES 1 protection (illegal to import/export in almost every country), they are also under the dangerous wild animals law that covers lions, tigers, elephants, rhinos, etc.

I found how to get a komodo legally, but its no easy task, you must prove to the above listed organizations that you have an indoor setup with appropriate security to protect the animal and the public, you must prove also that your possession of sadi animal will contribuite to its conservation, biological studies, and /or captive propogation.
On the black market they sold years ago for $35,000 a piece for young ones. *


from a website that i found...


----------



## greenlikegecko

if anyone is keeping a komodo they should HAVE to have a video camera in the enclosure also... so if they get eaten by it, we can all watch on youtube : victory:


----------



## HABU

feeder goats.....


----------



## Philcw

greenlikegecko said:


> if anyone is keeping a komodo they should HAVE to have a video camera in the enclosure also... so if they get eaten by it, we can all watch on youtube : victory:


lol agreed! : victory:


----------



## Stoke Lad

Is it worth this much hassle to look after one??


----------



## Fangio

scottish_rep_keepers said:


> god forget the komodo,are you really gunna keep carrion around ur home and feed it huge meals, why not go the full hog n get a bloody salt water croc or an alligater for christ sake.....................


Chinese alligator is only around 5ft........just a thought:lol2:


----------



## DeanThorpe

indigo said:


> have to ask do u no what the hell u r talking about a komodo
> is a lot larger than all they should not be in the pet trade and only a fool would try and keep one its people like u that give reptile keepers a bad name wake up and stop dreaming


For the record... i dont want a komodo..nowhere on this thread have i said i do...
but its plain stupid to think a 4-6 ft monitor can be kept in xx size yet once your talking abotu a komodo.... it cant be kept atall...thats PURE STUPIDITY.

And again...im talking about captive bred animals, not those taking fromt he wild so the difference between a captive komodo and the ethics of keeping it is no diff to any other monitor..or dare i say any other captive bred reptile at all.

Why make your 3rd post on this forum so pointless, one sided and stupid?
Atleast have the decency to get your facts right.


----------



## Philcw

DeanThorpe said:


> For the record... i dont want a komodo..nowhere on this thread have i said i do...
> but its plain stupid to think a 4-6 ft monitor can be kept in xx size yet once your talking abotu a komodo.... it cant be kept atall...thats PURE STUPIDITY.
> 
> And again...im talking about captive bred animals, not those taking fromt he wild so the difference between a captive komodo and the ethics of keeping it is no diff to any other monitor..or dare i say any other captive bred reptile at all.
> 
> Why make your 3rd post on this forum so pointless, one sided and stupid?
> Atleast have the decency to get your facts right.


 
You dont think you could keep a komodo dean?


Phil : victory:


----------



## DeanThorpe

i dont have a house with land to build the enclosures necesary mate.

by time i do have...maybe i will have the experience and contacts and general abilities that would allow me to succesfully do so.


----------



## Philcw

Oh i thought you meant that you cant keep a Komodo in general, i would like to own one oneday to study them etc... but the chance of me getting one are 0 --|-------------------10000000 lol


Phil


----------



## DeanThorpe

I believe its totally possible for anyone interested in reptiles to keep any species assuming there is any legal way of doing so, which there isso there ya go.
I have every intention of keeping reptiles for the rest of my life, i also intend to have a large house with land and a decent busines, reptile related or not, so anything is possible.
However a komodo does not happen to be high on my priorites or wish list to be honest, no partic reason.


----------



## kaimarion

DeanThorpe said:


> For the record... i dont want a komodo..nowhere on this thread have i said i do...
> but its plain stupid to think a 4-6 ft monitor can be kept in xx size yet once your talking abotu a komodo.... it cant be kept atall...thats PURE STUPIDITY.
> 
> And again...im talking about captive bred animals, not those taking fromt he wild so the difference between a captive komodo and the ethics of keeping it is no diff to any other monitor..or dare i say any other captive bred reptile at all.
> 
> Why make your 3rd post on this forum so pointless, one sided and stupid?
> Atleast have the decency to get your facts right.


Dean you desverve a :no1: for that reply.


----------



## greenlikegecko

am sure if we give *O* and Habu £10,000 they could hunt down some sort of pigmy komodo... failing that am sure velociraptors arent on the DWA list (if you dunno what a velociraptor is visit : American Society for Velociraptor Attack Prevention )


----------



## DaveM

scottish_rep_keepers said:


> are you really gunna keep carrion around ur home




no, feed live instead :roll: :lol:


----------



## RMG

Just an honest question...

why would anyone want to keep a komodo dragon apart from the obvious semi worship that would be associated with it from people who dont know better? 
Using 'study' i.m.o is not a valid reason for keeping komodos privately..there is very little you can learn of scientific value from a captive komodo(s)..

As already said komodos have massive space requirements..they havent and continue not to do well in captivity and they are a large predator easily capable (both males and females) of maiming or killing a person in a matter of seconds..

Just to add the guy in the Canaries that says he can sell komodo hatchos for £10,000 will probably be (or already has been) reported to EAZA as all his animals are European StudBook animals and therefore not his to sell and therefore what he's doing is totally illegal.
Captive komodo numbers in Europe are strictly regulated


----------



## indigo

RMG said:


> Just an honest question...
> 
> why would anyone want to keep a komodo dragon apart from the obvious semi worship that would be associated with it from people who dont know better?
> Using 'study' i.m.o is not a valid reason for keeping komodos privately..there is very little you can learn of scientific value from a captive komodo(s)..
> 
> As already said komodos have massive space requirements..they havent and continue not to do well in captivity and they are a large predator easily capable (both males and females) of maiming or killing a person in a matter of seconds..
> 
> Just to add the guy in the Canaries that says he can sell komodo hatchos for £10,000 will probably be (or already has been) reported to EAZA as all his animals are European StudBook animals and therefore not his to sell and therefore what he's doing is totally illegal.
> Captive komodo numbers in Europe are strictly regulated


 well said


----------



## DeanThorpe

Actually its quite far off... a komodo killing a person in seconds may be slightly optimistic..atleast if your talking adult males... however thats not the point, as many a constrictors or even the other large monitors could indeed kill...as could a good portion of the venomous snakes...at this point.. get out of the dwa section is the comment at the forefront of my mind.

I dont know statostocs on how well komodos are and have doen in captivity..i do know they have re-produced..however details of this im not too up on...thankfully its not super important at this point, as yourd have to take into account how those that have not done well have indeed been kept and how those that have...have been kept and draw your own conclusions...they may be similar to any animal..those cared for well...do well..those that arent....

Maybe...

why little can be learned of captive komodos of a scientifics nature? obviosuly you would be studying captive behaviour but that also goes for any reptile../animal so where is the komodo different other than scale?

asking, not dissing...[in that bit anyway]

and finally why does one need a reason to excersise the right we have, that being to keep any animal we can without breaking any laws and caring for it as best is known how to do so?.

and why is it so much more for the komodo than any other animal again?
[sorry, i genuinely dont see what the big frigging deal is]


----------



## RMG

Nobody has said that you *cant* keep komodos in captivity, thats not the issue here, the issue is that you *shouldnt* keep komodos in captivity.

Can you honestly say from personal experience that it'd take less than a few seconds for an adult komodo to maim or kill you?...

Take it form someone who has worked with and continues to work with large monitors (including komodos)..Komodos are never worked with alone and this is for a very good reason and also why they are unsuitable as pets.

There is very little chance that any findings of scientific interest could come from a 'home study' of komodos as nearly everything about their behaviour and captive husbandry has been studied before and they still prove to be difficult to maintain in captivity.

Even the komodos under the very best of captive conditions (im talking millions spent on enclosure design and enrichment) have and still do less than well in a captive environment..
so what chance does the hobbiest stand?


----------



## SiUK

RMG said:


> Nobody has said that you *cant* keep komodos in captivity, thats not the issue here, the issue is that you *shouldnt* keep komodos in captivity.
> 
> Can you honestly say from personal experience that it'd take less than a few seconds for an adult komodo to maim or kill you?...
> 
> Take it form someone who has worked with and continues to work with large monitors (including komodos)..Komodos are never worked with alone and this is for a very good reason and also why they are unsuitable as pets.
> 
> There is very little chance that any findings of scientific interest could come from a 'home study' of komodos as nearly everything about their behaviour and captive husbandry has been studied before and they still prove to be difficult to maintain in captivity.
> 
> Even the komodos under the very best of captive conditions (im talking millions spent on enclosure design and enrichment) have and still do less than well in a captive environment..
> so what chance does the hobbiest stand?


how about big cats and bears?


----------



## RMG

I dont agree with big cats and bears being held by hobbiests also....


----------



## HABU

:crazy:Lambert, a family pet, was on the loose earlier this week. But this pet definitely turned heads when he was roaming on an Ohio highway. That’s because this family pet is a 550 pound lion.
Lambert broke out through the top of his pen and the lion started chasing down cars on a busy highway. 
One driver said that he ran after the cars just like how a dog chases cars and that he would run 10-15 feet and then come back.
The Ohio State Highway Patrol arrived at the scene, but Lambert’s owner was able to get Lambert back into his cage without anyone getting hurt.

Terry Brumfield said he raises lions as an escape from his depression. He has another lion named Lacey. He said the two lions are just great big house cats and are extremely tame.
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources regulates wildlife native to Ohio, but does not require permits for exotic animals.
Source: Mansfield news journal.

god bless america!!:lol2::lol2::crazy:


----------



## SiUK

I personally think if and only if a person has the correct knowledge set up and money to look after and treat the animal then I think they should be able to, I dont agree with some states in the US where people can keep whatever they want no questions asked, but done properly I think its alright.


----------



## RMG

as you know Si thats not the way things are done in the UK...

the problem is drawing the line where somebody is experienced/qualified enough to keep such animals...money is not always a limiting factor..

as you knwo there are plenty of people who can provide optimal captive environments for their animals but are lacking in common sense and appropriate knowledge (take that tool in northern Ireland that we hear so frequently about getting bitten by his rattlers)...

Money can buy knowledge but a little bit of knowledge can be more dangerous than none...


----------



## SiUK

Yeh I agree mate, some people shouldnt be in control of themselves let alone deadly animals


----------



## The Wanderer

I remember seeing the late Steve Irwin with Komodos at his zoo. He was petting them like a dog. He said that in the wild they are incredibly ferocious but in captivity become very docile in a couple of months. Steve always knew his stuff, so no reason to doubt him.


----------



## DeanThorpe

so really this has turned into rather than a disscussion on komodos.. more those opposed to keeping large species that may be more than a one handed job full stop where a certain level of experience and expertise may be required...against those who say that with that expertise and ability and it being legally allowed should be able to keep them without being erm..whinged at?

seems pretty far off point now so i cant add nout more to this.


----------



## RMG

Nobody is wingeing Dean but if you ask most people with enough experience and expertise with large monitors they'll tell you themselves that komodos shouldnt be kept as pets..Nobody is saying anything about komodos being added to DWA or being made illegal to keep (although maybe that wouldnt be such a bad idea)

its obvious form your argument that your an armchair expert that just wants to push your right to be allowed to keep any species as a pet when it comes to large montiors so I suggest that you go and get some experience with some large monitor species and come back and argue your point.

Then maybe you'll possibly have a valid case to back up your reasoning behind the idea of keeping a komodo as a pet...but I doubt it


----------



## Mr.Monty

This is the *best* thing that i have read on this thread.
I believe that this statement applies to every single person on RFUK, bar mabe 10 or so.


----------



## cobra759

*Komodos*

Check out the DEFRA website, they have a list of all animals which require a DWAL. Hope you ready for that Komodo mate, that's one big big big commitment.


----------



## indigo

RMG said:


> Nobody is wingeing Dean but if you ask most people with enough experience and expertise with large monitors they'll tell you themselves that komodos shouldnt be kept as pets..Nobody is saying anything about komodos being added to DWA or being made illegal to keep (although maybe that wouldnt be such a bad idea)
> 
> its obvious form your argument that your an armchair expert that just wants to push your right to be allowed to keep any species as a pet when it comes to large montiors so I suggest that you go and get some experience with some large monitor species and come back and argue your point.
> 
> Then maybe you'll possibly have a valid case to back up your reasoning behind the idea of keeping a komodo as a pet...but I doubt it


 i could not agree more with this post i keep a fair sized monitor and know what they can be like even tho mine is tame when it wants food the change in the monitor is very quick they can never be fully trusted i would not keep a komodo they should be left in the wild and zoos not for a pet


----------



## Mr.Monty

indigo said:


> i could not agree more with this post i keep a fair sized monitor and know what they can be like even tho mine is tame when it wants food the change in the monitor is very quick they can never be fully trusted i would not keep a komodo they should be left in the wild and zoos not for a pet


agreed


----------



## kelly

are you still thinking bout getting one charlie??? as long as you know 100%what you are getting yourself into then good luck


----------



## intravenous

Why should a zoo be allowed to keep them and not private keepers? You get some very rich people out there who could create and maintain massive enclosures or even set up their own breeding programs. Just because they are kept in private collections it doesn't necessarily make them "pets".


----------



## RMG

In my personal opinion they shouldnt be kept in zoo's either...the amount of time and money that is required to maintian a healthy dragon goes way beyond what you ever get back (including revenue)...they basically just sit around all day and do very very little...once the intial awe factor over their size has gone most tourists get bored with them and there has been studies done on this..most people prefer the smaller more active lizards like iguanas and the dwarf monitors.

Just because someone can afford the intial expenditure and subsequent manitence costs doesnt mean that they'll be able to keep the dragon alive and healthy...there are alot more variables than just food and space when working with komodos in captivity and 
Again i need to point out..Dragons,in general, dont do well in captivity.

I.M.O the best way to keep komodos from going extinct would be to pump the same amount of funds into an in-situ program that conserves their wild habitat and more importantly their food sources, rather than creating a captive breeding program.

The studies are published and the results are there to be seen...
For a good informative read have a look at Claudio Cioffi's book...you can get it on amazon for about 20 quid...have a read of some of the recent published papers and then draw your own conclusions...


----------



## Jade01

RMG said:


> In my personal opinion they shouldnt be kept in zoo's either...the amount of time and money that is required to maintian a healthy dragon goes way beyond what you ever get back (including revenue)...they basically just sit around all day and do very very little...once the intial awe factor over their size has gone most tourists get bored with them and there has been studies done on this..*most people prefer the smaller more active lizards like iguanas* and the dwarf monitors.
> 
> Just because someone can afford the intial expenditure and subsequent manitence costs doesnt mean that they'll be able to keep the dragon alive and healthy...there are alot more variables than just food and space when working with komodos in captivity and
> Again i need to point out..Dragons,in general, dont do well in captivity.
> 
> I.M.O the best way to keep komodos from going extinct would be to pump the same amount of funds into an in-situ program that conserves their wild habitat and more importantly their food sources, rather than creating a captive breeding program.
> 
> The studies are published and the results are there to be seen...
> For a good informative read have a look at Claudio Cioffi's book...you can get it on amazon for about 20 quid...have a read of some of the recent published papers and then draw your own conclusions...


wot kindof iguana are you talking about? because the ones im thinking of are huge lizards!
unless you mean desert iguanas, and the other small ones?
but i wouldnt class an iguana as a small lizard tbh


----------



## Daredevil

Iguana's are medium to large i would say... Komodo's are basically off the scale... they are dinosaurs...:crazy:


----------



## Jade01

yeah me 2 actually.
aha they are arent they lol!


----------



## Daredevil

Yeah, bloody huge... but if you can care for them properly i don't see anything wrong with people keeping Komodo's in private collections... i wouldn't do it personally... i'd have a cheetah...:no1:


----------



## Jade01

yeah me 2, as long as there looked after correctly, i dont think theres any problem in keeping anything at all.

for one thing people keep going on about how it could kill..but so can hots! and theres loads of people who keep them 

ahh i think id have 2 have a lion or a tiger :no1:


----------



## Daredevil

Yeah, but i'd progress there... Cheetahs are easy to look after compared to Lions and Tigers... at least they won't try and eat you...


----------



## Jade01

yeah i could start off with a cheetah 

then have a lion

then finish off with a tiger


----------



## Daredevil

... and then finish off as food...:no1:


----------



## Jade01

aha yeah!!


----------



## amazoncat

It seems to already have been said but I really don't see any difference between keeping a Komodo in a private collection and keeping a big cat or something like a hippo and these animals are kept in private collections albeit often the sort that are occasionally open to the public on a few weekends in the summer or similar.

I don't see it as morally or ethically wrong, if you have the money, space and other resources to provide the animals with adequate care. It is a VERY sad thing to say but for a lot of these animals their only chance of survival is captive breeding programs.


----------



## xx-Charlie-xx

amazoncat said:


> It seems to already have been said but I really don't see any difference between keeping a Komodo in a private collection and keeping a big cat or something like a hippo and these animals are kept in private collections albeit often the sort that are occasionally open to the public on a few weekends in the summer or similar.
> 
> I don't see it as morally or ethically wrong, if you have the money, space and other resources to provide the animals with adequate care. It is a VERY sad thing to say but for a lot of these animals their only chance of survival is captive breeding programs.


 
thank you


----------



## amazoncat

no problem at all. It amazes me how nasty forum threads can get about things sometimes. People seem to get worked up over tiny things.

Good luck if you go ahead with it. I'd love to drop by and photograph them.


----------



## knighty

hi only just joined this forum and this post caught my eye, started to read but got a bit long winded, so i skipped to the end in search of a happy ending but had no luck!

do you need a lisence for a kamodo? will be amazed if you dont, you have to for a camen!

my mum and stepdad had a mini zoo and pet shop and he is fairly sure you will need one.

also what are the chances of getting one if they are on the CITTIES, surley it would have to come from a CB source, much as is done with asian arowanas.

please post the out come, cant handle the suspence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dave:diablo:


----------



## forwantof

I also just saw this thread and had a good read - I really wouldnt want anything that could eat me! Would people leaving around the area you live in have to be warned etc? I would cack myself if I realised a komodo was living down the road from me! Do any zoo's in this country have komodos? Never seen one. They are amazing creatures but I think maybe they are best off in the wild.


----------



## Myo

I think the funny thing about this is that from what people are saying you can actually own a komodo, from what people are saying here you might have to make defra happy and maybe some other organisations too, but there is a legal way to buy, keep and breed them. Although, there is no legal way to buy or breed a pitbull and that's just a dog. You can keep one if you already have it and it passes tempremant tests, but it must be neutered so it cannot breed and the law says under no circumstances is it to be sold. This country!


20 - 30kg domesticated mammal, eats tinned meat = illegal

80 - 100kg wild reptile, eats people = legal (ish)


----------



## Daredevil

People don't take Komodo's for walks round the park though...


----------



## indigo

forwantof said:


> I also just saw this thread and had a good read - I really wouldnt want anything that could eat me! Would people leaving around the area you live in have to be warned etc? I would cack myself if I realised a komodo was living down the road from me! Do any zoo's in this country have komodos? Never seen one. They are amazing creatures but I think maybe they are best off in the wild.


london zoo have them


----------



## Fangio

forwantof said:


> I also just saw this thread and had a good read - I really wouldnt want anything that could eat me! Would people leaving around the area you live in have to be warned etc? I would cack myself if I realised a komodo was living down the road from me! Do any zoo's in this country have komodos? Never seen one. They are amazing creatures but I think maybe they are best off in the wild.





indigo said:


> london zoo have them


As do Colchester and Chester zoo's.

The ones at Colchester zoo are still quite small though (5ftish).


----------



## Myo

bradhollands999 said:


> People don't take Komodo's for walks round the park though...


 
Ah, but with komodos not being on the DWA list there is no law stopping someone who has a komodo from walking it round the park! or letting it off the lead!


----------



## Harrison

"Komodo Dragon Kills Boy"


----------



## to-many-snakes

Fangio said:


> As do Colchester and Chester zoo's.
> 
> The ones at Colchester zoo are still quite small though (5ftish).


there female so wont get alot bigger its the males that get big


----------



## Fangio

to-many-snakes said:


> there female so wont get alot bigger its the males that get big


They need a male then methinks!: victory:


----------



## DeanThorpe

RMG said:


> Nobody is wingeing Dean but if you ask most people with enough experience and expertise with large monitors they'll tell you themselves that komodos shouldnt be kept as pets..Nobody is saying anything about komodos being added to DWA or being made illegal to keep (although maybe that wouldnt be such a bad idea)
> 
> its obvious form your argument that your an armchair expert that just wants to push your right to be allowed to keep any species as a pet when it comes to large montiors so I suggest that you go and get some experience with some large monitor species and come back and argue your point.
> 
> Then maybe you'll possibly have a valid case to back up your reasoning behind the idea of keeping a komodo as a pet...but I doubt it


sorry just saw this.
what i have to keep a komodo before i can argue they should be allowed to be kept?
if they are legal to keep and you can keep them well i dont see a problem.
what was your personal experience behind your reasoning that they shouldnt be?


----------



## DeanThorpe

indigo said:


> i could not agree more with this post i keep a fair sized monitor and know what they can be like even tho mine is tame when it wants food the change in the monitor is very quick they can never be fully trusted i would not keep a komodo they should be left in the wild and zoos not for a pet


and what monitor do you keep?
are you having problems keeping up with its needs? are you affraid?
if not..would you be if it was twice the size? would you think that if it hit twice the size that an enclosure twice the size wouldnt do then? cos thats what i dont get..if a 4ft monitor is fine in a 10ft viv with careful keeping...and a 6ft monitor is ok in a 15ft with more careful keeping...why does once it hits xx size or have the name komodo , does that change?


----------



## cavan

think u basically have to be a zoo to own one, they cannot be owned privately


----------



## chondro13

cavan said:


> think u basically have to be a zoo to own one, they cannot be owned privately


You are joking? This thread is from 2008 and your answer has been provided several times over in great detail :lol2:


----------



## cavan

Oh yeah, dnt even look ayt dates:lol2:


----------



## 1uk3

I ain't read all this but has no one mentioned what the op keeps? 

From the list they have boscs and corn snakes how do you go from them to a komodo? its stupid all I can say is dreamer


----------

