# Tropical fish dyeing.



## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Can some one help me plz i am fairly new to keeping fish and i started up my tank 3 months ago.

basically i have 2 dalmatian mollies one male the other female, i also have 7 dalmatian babies that survived despite me thinking that they would die, i also have one female dwarf gourami she is fairly new and im very worried about her.

i have had 15 other fish but they have all died as far as i can tell for no apparent reason. i have had 11 neon tetras i know these aren't great fish to start with but thought id give it a go they all died within 5 days. then i got some black neon tetras as i heard that these are more hardier these where bought in the same week as the female gourami and introduced at the same time. i also had a male dwarf gourami he died withing in a week. Now i haven't seen all these fish before they died but the ones i did see seemed to have had trouble shortly before they died. they all could not swim properly and swam on one side and seemed to sink a lot.

the mollies have survived it all even the babies they where my first fish.

for the life of me i cant think why they have died. my nitrite levels are good. the temperature is good the filter was a bit mucky so i gave it a quick clean not with any chemicals just the tank water that had already been taken out from the water change over.

my bf has been advising me on care and all my equipment he is very knowledgeable but he doesn't know why they are dyeing off either.

Can someone please help me?


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## Xelazander (Jan 2, 2013)

Dyeing? What colour?!

On a serious note lets start with some basic information. 

Size of tank (capacity or dimensions):
Filtration used:
Temperature:
Any water tests?
Are you using treated tap water?

One possible reason could be that you're trying to add a lot of fish at once, 15 and 9 tetras at a time into a newly established tank will cause an ammonia spike. Once you know your conditions are good try adding maybe two at a time instead.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

These have been introduced In smaller groups the mollies where introduced together when the tank was all set up and had been standing a month before they where put in. The neon where introduced as a group of 5 and then a group of 6 in the hopes that at least 4 would survive but they didn't. A week was left I between introducing the fish.

The tank is about 50 to 60 litres. I'm using an interpet internal power filter pf1. The heater is a marina that's all i can tell U as i don't have the packaging to this heater any more. I have done 2 nitrite test both were 0 ppm.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

My tap water is untreated as I was told this would be fine. I add semi warm water not to hot and not to cold. I basically add water that is of the same temp as in the tank. I do this as I thought just putting cold water in would be a bit of a shock to them.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Srry there not dyeing lol my phone keeps spell auto checking everything lol there keep dieing. U know as in dead


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## cjd99 (Apr 8, 2009)

out of curiousity, when you perform a water change, are you using water from the cold tap in your kitchen and then to get the temperature right heating in a kettle.
The reason I ask is bathroom water and water from a hot tap often have higher chlorine levels, and/or water traveling through metal piping


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

cjd99 said:


> out of curiousity, when you perform a water change, are you using water from the cold tap in your kitchen and then to get the temperature right heating in a kettle.
> The reason I ask is bathroom water and water from a hot tap often have higher chlorine levels, and/or water traveling through metal piping


I'm using the hot and cold tap up stairs in the bathroom. I was told that it would be okay and I don't think this is the problem as the mollies and there babies have been fine through all of this.


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## cjd99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Different fish have different tolerances not to mention different water chemistry requirements also juveniles born into sub optimum conditions tend to do ok and have a higher tolerance. I'd be 95% positive that that's what is causing your die offs though. 

Do you leave the water stand to dechlorinate before putting it in or aerate it for a period of time? Do you have a metal tank in the loft that provides your bathroom's water or is it direct from the mains?

Water out of the taps isn't the best (the reason people spend so much on RO units) drinking water out of your kitchen tap is generally fine because it's supplied by mains, although this can fluctuate in quality. My advice, use water from the kitchen (this can be a pain in the backside to carry upstairs) age it, and it should be fine. 

End of the day it's up to you.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

cjd99 said:


> Different fish have different tolerances not to mention different water chemistry requirements also juveniles born into sub optimum conditions tend to do ok and have a higher tolerance. I'd be 95% positive that that's what is causing your die offs though.
> 
> Do you leave the water stand to dechlorinate before putting it in or aerate it for a period of time? Do you have a metal tank in the loft that provides your bathroom's water or is it direct from the mains?
> 
> ...


No I don't do anything to it. Its straight out of the mains and the water seems to be a lot better upstairs than down. U can taste the chlorine alot more downstairs. I'll have a go with so tap safe just to count it out but I don't think it is. 

Thanks anyways I do have a book arriving to hopefully learn a bit more than I do now.


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## Jo-nin (Sep 8, 2011)

just a wild stab in the dark but Neon Tetra Disease. Highly contagious and pretty much fits the description above. my suggestion would be not to add more fish for 3 weeks and then add when sure no others suddenly die.


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## RubyRoo12 (Jun 20, 2012)

so you use water straight from the tap, no tap water conditioner at all? how often are you doing this? its always worth using dechlorinator, as although the chlorine will gas off over time, the chloramines (think thats spelt right) wont, the tap water will be killing off your cycle. i never add any untreated tap water to my tanks, ever. i use a tap water conditioner that dechlorinates, and binds heavy metals as i use warm water from the hot tap. its not expensive, and it makes sure the bacteria in the tank arent affected by my weekly partial water changes.

what are your ammonia and nitrate levels, you say about the nitrites but thats like the middle step in the cycling process. a cycled tank will show zero ammonia, zero nitrites and have a reading of nitrates which needs to be kept under 40ppm by regular water changes. 

it sounds to me like your tank isnt cycled properly, which in turn is harming your fish. the more sensitive ones are more likely to die being kept like this.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

cjd99 said:


> out of curiousity, when you perform a water change, are you using water from the cold tap in your kitchen and then to get the temperature right heating in a kettle.
> The reason I ask is bathroom water and water from a hot tap often have higher chlorine levels, and/or water traveling through metal piping


Am I missing something here, why would bathroom/hot tap water have more chlorine in it? If anything I would think it'll be less since it has more chance to escape or be consumed than from the kitchen tap which is closest to the mains feed.



Anyway, a simple way to eliminate possible contribution from chlorine or metals is to use a water conditioning product. They typically neutralise chlorine as well as chloramine, and claim to lock up metals too.

There's a bit of debate about using hot water tap. In my case, I wouldn't as I have a water cylinder and the copper levels are measurably higher from the hot tap. I don't know if it is significant, but I don't want to find out either! Apparently those with on demand water heaters are ok since the flow of water means it doesn't get to sit in the pipes for long. Also in my case my bathroom cold water tap is fed from a plastic tank, so there is no significant risk from metal pickup there.

One further thought: mollies and tetra like different water conditions. Mollies like hard water, typically having a higher pH along with it. Tetras tend to like a more neutral pH with softer water. That may be a contributing factor also. In general the stores will adapt them to local tap water before selling, but there may still be a longer term impact.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that in the UK there is only one supply of water in the house so the water coming out of the tap in the bathroom should be the same as the kitchen. However if you have a hot water tank in the loft (rather than a combi boiler) then you can have all sorts of nasties building up in there which would cause some problems.

Do you have any other water parameters (pH, KH, ammonia?). 

Not ageing the water can have an effect of killing the filter bacteria, causing ammonia spikes that may not show up on your nitrite test kits. Also some water companies use chloramines to keep the chlorine in the water longer, it's harder to get rid of by just aerating it or letting in stand so a tap water conditioner may be needed. The mollys are hardy things and can take some abuse it but the tetras won't.

Where there any marks on the fish you pulled out?


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

I didn't know anything about conditioning my water nobody has told me I asked at the pet shop and even they didn't tell me what was happening so I just got some tap safe. 

Can anybody advise me on what I need to do next to make this tank turn around and to stop this from happening as I don't want my female gourami to die she seems alright at moment but id rather get this whole thing sorted quickly so that she doesn't suffer the same fate.


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

Have you done any water readings? Without them we can only guess what is going on but it sounds very much like water quality issues. Test for ammonia and nitrite with a reputable liquid test.

Its generally recommended you never use the hot tap for water changes. All sorts of bacteria can live in your hot water tank (which is why you don't drink from the hot tap!) Theres also a higher chance of heavy metals leaching in from pipes, the inside of the tank etc.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

I've already done a nitrite test that's come back 0. I've done it twice to double check it and all carry on doing it until I think the water is safe. 

I've bought some safe guard de chlorinator today. I know how to use it. Should I do a water change with it as soon as possible. How much water should I take out 50, 60 ,70%.


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## Ony (Oct 19, 2012)

No more than 50% at a time and brought to tank temperature with hot water from the kettle. I would do about 30% per day until I was able to get a test kit delivered. Then I would re-evaluate based on test results. If ammonia and nitrite were 0 and PH + water hardness stable then I would go back to 20-30% once a week and start thinking about other causes. 

Keep a close eye on temperature in this weather as well as a very high or fluctuating temperature can exasperate other problems.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

I've take 10 % out I've added 1 pipet of the dechlorinator to the water. I've taken the water out of the bathroom cold tap and I've let it sit until it was room temp and put it in. I've also added a new plant so that the gourami feels a bit more comfortable. She seems okay more active than usual.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Ony said:


> No more than 50% at a time and brought to tank temperature with hot water from the kettle. I would do about 30% per day until I was able to get a test kit delivered. Then I would re-evaluate based on test results. If ammonia and nitrite were 0 and PH + water hardness stable then I would go back to 20-30% once a week and start thinking about other causes.
> 
> Keep a close eye on temperature in this weather as well as a very high or fluctuating temperature can exasperate other problems.


The current temp is 34c 93f although I have set the heater for 28c.


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## GlassWalker (Jun 15, 2011)

34C!? If that is right, that's too hot. Even 28C is on the hot end. Now thermometers may not be accurate, and the setting on the heater may be off also. In the current weather I don't even have a heater plugged in on my tropical tanks. I'd let the tank gradually cool down. Just unplug the heater and it'll drop to somewhere just above room temperature gradually. Any lights and filter will cause a little heating too.

When you later re-introduce the heater, set it a bit below where you want and adjust it up if necessary.


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## cjd12345 (Nov 2, 2011)

Your temperature is around 8-10C too high, that's likely to be a big part of the problem. You're already addressing the tap water issue. I think the temps are the killer though, turn the heater down but keep it on because you want stable temperatures - I don't keep mollys, but checking information about them they will tolerate 22-28C.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

GlassWalker said:


> 34C!? If that is right, that's too hot. Even 28C is on the hot end. Now thermometers may not be accurate, and the setting on the heater may be off also. In the current weather I don't even have a heater plugged in on my tropical tanks. I'd let the tank gradually cool down. Just unplug the heater and it'll drop to somewhere just above room temperature gradually. Any lights and filter will cause a little heating too.
> 
> When you later re-introduce the heater, set it a bit below where you want and adjust it up if necessary.


I think both are off. I'll turn heater off now. Thanks can't wiat for my book to turn up. Never realised keeping fish was this hard. Not gonna stop me like. I like having a hobby plus i find watch fish very calming.


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

cjd12345 said:


> Your temperature is around 8-10C too high, that's likely to be a big part of the problem. You're already addressing the tap water issue. I think the temps are the killer though, turn the heater down but keep it on because you want stable temperatures - I don't keep mollys, but checking information about them they will tolerate 22-28C.


That's why I dropped the temperature the other day when I realised cause gouramis are okay with 28 but according to the tank thermonature its 34c and the heater is on at the moment at 28c. Normally I don't see it on unless there's been a drop in temperature.


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## Fargle (Aug 8, 2013)

Have you set it to 34? Otherwise it could be that the heater has failed. If they fail off then you have plenty of time to realise something is not right and get a new heater, however if they fail on you only have a few hours before the temp skyrockets and boils the fish. I've lost a whole tank to this before. And this was a modern heater with an electronic thermostat, older models (over 15 years ago) had metal plates that bent with the heat to break the circuit, however these used to get fused together over time and fail on!


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## shadow05 (Nov 4, 2010)

Fargle said:


> Have you set it to 34? Otherwise it could be that the heater has failed. If they fail off then you have plenty of time to realise something is not right and get a new heater, however if they fail on you only have a few hours before the temp skyrockets and boils the fish. I've lost a whole tank to this before. And this was a modern heater with an electronic thermostat, older models (over 15 years ago) had metal plates that bent with the heat to break the circuit, however these used to get fused together over time and fail on!


No I don't think it has its a fairly new heater and I've not had any problems with it I think that both are off but since I turned it off last night the external thermometer is reading at about 28c. All the fish seem good the gourami is doing loads better I've noticed she's been coming up to the surface more to eat.


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## RubyRoo12 (Jun 20, 2012)

we have a copper tank for our hot water, we had the same in our old house too, we have always used a combination of cold water and hot from the tap to reach ideal temps, never had an issue with keeping any type of fish like this. we make sure our dechlorinator also binds metals just incase but never had a problem. we do run the taps for a while before adding any though. we would be going non stop with the kettle to do it that way as our tanks are 350L and 125L, and our old tank we used to use the hot tap with was nearly 700L. a partial water change doing it any other way would have taken days :lol2: i guess we all do things differently


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