# Planted viv clean up crew



## sketchin (May 21, 2013)

So i'm thinking of setting up my own live planted frog vivarium, i was reading somewhere that using insects such as woodlice to eat the frog waste isn't very effective with many frogs. They didn't state how many is to many which is a bit annoying so i come to you with a question.

Would the lice or whatever critters i use be able to _handle_ 3/4 fire bellied toads?

Thanks.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

If you were to keep dart frogs then I`d say fill your substrate with springtails and woodlice.
Because YES they do keep the viv clean.
The frogs do eat them though so they normally need topped up now and again.
Toads ?
I`ve no idea on how to keep them as they don`t float my boat, but I imagine they would also have some use in their environment.


Mike


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## sketchin (May 21, 2013)

What not with Fire bellied toads, is it because you don't have experience with them? 

Also i was sure that i'd have to top up whatever is in there, personally i think its a really good idea, they guy load themself, frogs get food and provide more food when they've done their business. More reasons to love the idea of keeping frogs. Can't wait till my first (knowing me it wont be my last) froggy viv.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

I don`t keep toads and never have, they do nothing for me lol.
For that reason I won`t ever advise on how to keep them.
But I look on springtails and woodlice as a possible food source for all amphibians so that's why I see no reason for you not using them.


Mike


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## sketchin (May 21, 2013)

Oh kk, and yeah always good when your food helps do some of the work for you haha. 

Also i know what you mean, i don't like giving advice on things i'm not very comfortable with either and amphibians are one of them. Looking forward to my first one though.


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## sketchin (May 21, 2013)

Just thought i'd remind you lot about the actually question lol. Well i guess it was, just not answered directly. So what numbers would i look to try and keep in the vivarium i'm thinking of having 3/4 fire bellied toads in a 60x40x40 viv, at least that's what i'm aiming to put then in. 

I obviously want as many in there as possible before then breed a lot (do frogs eat their eggs) and are very obvious in the vivarium, i mean like crawling with them.

Cheers guys, just gimmi all your knowledge!!! :devil:


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

lol they are tiny mate. i doubt anyone here deals in counting in woods and springs, but i put loads in, you'll see woods on the odd occasion darting around but they'll stay beneath the leaves and in the soil. springs whilst tiny, you'll see them on top of water or crawling around up high, oh and pinging about when you spray water


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## sketchin (May 21, 2013)

Oh that's alright then because crickets are awful so annoying. 

Depending on whether i go large i might make a little pond hopefully to house some fishys, i'm thinking some big enough to not get eated but small enough to not need a lot of water... Viable ?


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

depends what you are using, if you get a ENT style viv, it has a sloped glass false bottom in and a gully for the water to drain into. 

In my Exo Terra viv, i used a great technique by frogfreak. which you place your substrate divider in, place pebbles at the front and peel this back over the pebbles, then you put in your drainage layer (hydroleca in most cases) in the portion thats uncovered behind the pebbles, put the divider material back over the top and make sure its nice and neat round the edges so no earth can get down, then bang on your substrate. you'll want your leca to be quite deep tho so that the water wont 'wick' up into your soil.

the third option is using egg crate to create a 'shelf' which your soil will sit on and water will drain into an empty void underneath

ent viv (DMS Vivaria pic)










egg crate










and here's a pic of my 'stream'


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

ENT style will be no use for the toads Joe as they need a pool to swim in.
So it`s got to be a wet and a dry area for them.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

could you not use it to divide up a smaller proportion than usual ? or do they burrow ?


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

Once you have the substrate in you can add the springtails and woodlice.
If you provide plenty cover the springtails and woodlice will breed.
Without sufficient cover their numbers will need topping up occasionally.
The number of cleaners may eventually balance itself out to match the waste produced.
I find European springtails and woodlice to be less delicate in my planted setups and they breed freely there as long as the substrate does not dry out too much.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

SnakeBreeder said:


> Once you have the substrate in you can add the springtails and woodlice.
> If you provide plenty cover the springtails and woodlice will breed.
> Without sufficient cover their numbers will need topping up occasionally.
> The number of cleaners may eventually balance itself out to match the waste produced.
> I find European springtails and woodlice to be less delicate in my planted setups and they breed freely there as long as the substrate does not dry out too much.


I add European woodlice as I use them for food anyway; those that don't get eaten straight away obviously add to the clean-up crew, for a while. It's also worth adding the tropicals, though, as they are really too small for adult or near-adult FBTs to pay attention to- this goes for springtails as well. Both multiply and do their jobs in my FBT set-up, more or less under the noses of the toads.


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