# Oops Shouldnt of done that.



## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

ok the problem im having isnt really with my cwd however id does involve it so thats why im posting it in here and i dont post anywere else so maybe someone out there could help me....

i have a patterdale terrier (mutley) we got him given to us from my little sisters friends neighbour as apprentley he had eaten there pet parrot (which i dont belive) he is soft as anything and when we got him he was under wieght and very very scared of almost everyone especially my dad. when we 1st got him i spent 2 hours trying to calm him down with bits of ham and eventually he started following me and began to trust me. he then spent the next 4 months practically living in my bedroom, obviously eating his food down stairs and he would oftern sit at the top of the stairs but would never really leave his comfort zone. things are different now he will happily sit down sttairs and isnt scared of anyone in the house anymore, hes a brilliant little dog. 

As he spent so much time in my room it has become his area of the house he will not let the cats in the room and will litterally run after them barking etc, but when he is downstairs he dosnt bother with them. i got a chinese water dragon about 4 months ago and ive been putting mutley outside my room when its time to get the cwd out. i know a few people that have lizards and dogs and they just let the lizards roam while the dogs are out aswell and dont have any problems. so in my Wisdom (STUPIDITY :bash i thought lets get the cwd out while mutley is in the room, he hadnt paid any attention to the viv or its contents at all so i presumed he wouldnt be botherd he hadnt even bothered when he has seen me holding the cwd.

so the cwd was at the base of the viv so i grabbed mutley by the collar and opened the door, rango (the cwd) came running out stopped for a moment muutley tilted his head as if the say WTF! then rango ran at him and mutley S*** himself! :lol2: then he started trying to get loose from me as he either wanted to eat rango or have a good sniff of it, so i put mutley outside and put rango back in the viv then let mutley back in, he then as terriers do started sniffing round for about 20min trying to find the lizard. the problem im having is now he is OBSESSED with the viv he will literally sit right infront of it and just stare at it, and then every now and then scratches at the viv door (which he gets told off for) do you think he will eventually get bored of staring at the viv. i know its my fault and a stupid thing to do, and before you start saying ahh your a div uve probs stressed your cwd and its going to die now, the cwd is fine, it is cool as and literally isnt botherd by the dog in the slightest. so any ideas what to do with mutley? he is a stubborn little guy and half the time when i say no and get him away form the viv he dosnt take any notice, and i will not ive him a smack as i dont belive in it, i d


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## TommyR (May 15, 2012)

Think your dog will eventually give up soon its just curiousity and will hopefully not be bothered by the viv. 
It's just followed the scent of the lizard to the viv by sounds of it im sure it will be fine. 
Shouldn't worry


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

he`s a hunting terrier doing what they`re bred to do.

surprising stuff eh?


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## Trixtabella (Apr 12, 2012)

I have a cat, I have had my beardie for about 2-3 weeks now she is not fed up of him yet and I doubt she will be. I think it will be the same with your dog. The only thing I could suggest if you do some positive reinforment training. Does he have a fave toy? Get some treats and when he goes to viv get his toy and distract his attention away and give him a treat. See if it works and gradually reduce the amount of treats. There is no point shouting him he won't listen to you.


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

yup he deffo dont listen when you shout him, or call him although i have trained him to do 360 spins, lie down, roll over, give me his paw. but if you say come here he just takes no notice LOL! terriers for you tho i guess, ive tryed squeeking his toys and that has literally no effect he is literally just sat there tranced out when he does this its quite funny but also quite irritating as i know if i was to leave him on his own in there for long enough he would somehow get into the viv and probs try to eat the lizard. hopefully he will give up in a few days... stubborn little guy but you got to love him :2thumb:


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

A big bit of wood.that's how the police and army train their dogs.dogs need discipline from an alpha male.you have to be tough to be kind.after it learns it will respect you more.


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## thalie_knights (Jan 19, 2007)

... hope you've got a lock on your viv...:whistling2:


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

codyman70 said:


> A big bit of wood.that's how the police and army train their dogs.dogs need discipline from an alpha male.you have to be tough to be kind.after it learns it will respect you more.


all due respect that is nonsence a dog will do what you ask if you treat it with love. im not going to say blah you shouldnt train a dog like that but i just dont belive in it, why should you train an animal to do something if it is only doing it because it fears you, thats not a pet to me and if i saw someone beating a dog with a big piece of wood they would end up with it down there throat. take for instance pudsey off britans got talent that dog does everything it is asked to do and that is because she treats it with love and it knows it will get rewarded for doing what it is asked, its not the same when a dog fears you and does what you ask. also if you hadnt read all the post i suggest you do, this dog was VERY VERY scared of almost everyone, and im going to put it down to bieng miss treated so why on earth would i train my dog with ' a big piece of wood' if it has took me months to get him to feel safe and to trust me that im not going to hurt him. also its not like my dog dosnt respect me he just gets distracted and when he is focusing on something nothing you do will snap him out of it. anyway id much rather have love than respect from my dog he is not a working animal.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

You can tackle it two ways. You can either ban him from your room altogether. He is obviously guarding your room, hence chasing the cat in there but ok with them downstairs. Your other option is to use his, wanting to be in your room, to your advantage. Every time be gets over interested in the viv, put him out the room. The more he does it in quick succession, the quicker he will click, why he is being put out. Don't shout at him, don't talk to him, don't give him eye contact. Just either take him "quietly" by the collar, or pick him up and put him out. Then shut the door on him. Leave him a couple of minutes and "say nothing" and let him back in. He will go straight back to the viv, you actually want him to do it so don't get frustrated. It gives you the chance to put him out again. It gives him the chance to work out why he is being put out.

There is a chance he will run away from you, knowing you are going to put him out. The solution to that is attach a long lead, or a bit rope, to his collar.

Once he starts to work it out, he will be waiting for you to put him out. This means he is more likely to hear you when you speak to him. This gives you the chance to get his attention. Even if he doesn't loke at you, he may turn his head a bit. Anything that shows he has heard you, tell him good boy and give him a treat, piece of ham. If a treat doesn't work, squeek a toy and throw it too him, initiate a game. You basically want to teach him, being fixated gets him removed from the room. Not paying attention to the viv, gets him wonderful rewards. You can build on it to the point where you can tell him to leave and he will walk away. 

Bear in mind he is a terrier. Probably a high prey drive. By showing him the cwd, his prey drive has kicked in. Yup, you're a div :lol2: It can be sorted though. Once it is, don't try and introduce them again.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

codyman70 said:


> A big bit of wood.that's how the police and army train their dogs.dogs need discipline from an alpha male.you have to be tough to be kind.after it learns it will respect you more.


 
:gasp:................................:roll2:what a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> A big bit of wood.that's how the police and army train their dogs.dogs need discipline from an alpha male.you have to be tough to be kind.after it learns it will respect you more.


 
I think you will find they only use confident, predictable dogs. They don't pick those dogs to take away their confidence and make them fear aggressive. The police and army need their dogs to be 100% predictable.


What you are talking about is something completely different. They are teaching the dogs NOT to fear bits of wood etc The point is so they don't fear potential weapons. They don't hit the dogs with them. They wave them about, threateningly, to teach the dog to take the perp down with that arm. The dogs might get a couple of knocks along the way, these are accidental or not hard. Why on earth would they teach their dogs to cower. The rely on these dogs to save their lives at times. The dogs work for them through trust and respect. Not fear.

A simple case of thinking you have a little knowledge, as you have proved, it is dangerous.


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

fuzzielady said:


> You can tackle it two ways. You can either ban him from your room altogether. He is obviously guarding your room, hence chasing the cat in there but ok with them downstairs. Your other option is to use his, wanting to be in your room, to your advantage. Every time be gets over interested in the viv, put him out the room. The more he does it in quick succession, the quicker he will click, why he is being put out. Don't shout at him, don't talk to him, don't give him eye contact. Just either take him "quietly" by the collar, or pick him up and put him out. Then shut the door on him. Leave him a couple of minutes and "say nothing" and let him back in. He will go straight back to the viv, you actually want him to do it so don't get frustrated. It gives you the chance to put him out again. It gives him the chance to work out why he is being put out.
> 
> There is a chance he will run away from you, knowing you are going to put him out. The solution to that is attach a long lead, or a bit rope, to his collar.
> 
> ...



fantastic i will try that when i get home, and yes i am a div :blush: but i will get it sorted out :lol2: thanks for the advice :no1:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

henney2280 said:


> fantastic i will try that when i get home, and yes i am a div :blush: but i will get it sorted out :lol2: thanks for the advice :no1:


 
You are welcome. Retraining abused dogs is what I do


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

No,sorry fuzzielady your wrong.I took my German sheperd to a police training course years ago and if it didn't do what is was told immediately they would hit it with a large truncheon.it was trained to obey my every command in under a month.it was the best trained and most obedient dog I've ever seen.also fiercely protective over me.so your little bit of knowledge is total bs.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

Maybe the key to the disagreement is in the following words...

Police training course *YEARS AGO*......


of course, my little bit of non-knowledge could be wrong:whistling2:


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Henney and shell.dogs are pack animals by nature.do you think the alpha male gives them treats?no it kicks the shite out of them till they learn their place.its just the way it is.dogs respect authority.would you have a big German Shepard challenging you for dominance?I doubt it.


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

codyman70 said:


> No,sorry fuzzielady your wrong.I took my German sheperd to a police training course years ago and if it didn't do what is was told immediately they would hit it with a large truncheon.it was trained to obey my every command in under a month.it was the best trained and most obedient dog I've ever seen.also fiercely protective over me.so your little bit of knowledge is total bs.


give me an hour, iv a mate in the police who works with the sniffer dogs, il find out how true this is


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Cool.ask him miss ferret.I know that's how they train their German shepards.I've seen it first hand.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

I assess and retrain rottweilers. I have far more experience than witnessing one dog apparently being trained. Dogs respond to authority. That doesn't mean, I will act big and tough so you are scared not to obey. You will get much more out of a dog that obeys you due to respect than fear. GSD protect their owner through instinct. Not because of the fantastic, plank of wood, training. I would say you witnessed someone being all heavy with your dog because you seriously messed the dog up. Dogs need consistent rules. 


If you knew anything at all you would see the error in being heavy handed with a nervous dog. Have you ever heard of fear aggression? It is one of the few things you cannot train out of a dog. This makes them unpredictable. I have a dog that is fear aggressive. He use to bite every man he met. His previous owner thought he was tough beating him into submission. The first time I attempted to brush him he flew at me. I have had to train him to accept being touched. He gets that much pain in his feet and legs he can't bear them to be touched. If he feels threatened, he will bite. I have had him 6 years, he has bitten once in that time. I wasn't in at the time or it would never have happened. Reward based training was how I got through to him. It built his confidence. He does everything I tell him. I have trained him up to competition obedience level. Being fear aggressive, he will never be 100% trustworthy but will only bite to defend himself. He has fantastic body language so it is easy to tell when he is stressing. If I am stressed or crabbit, he stays away from me and I don't push myself on him. If I couldn't keep him, he would have to be pts. Not because he is a bad dog, I could never trust anyone else, to not put him in a position where he would feel the need to defend himself. 


Don't think for a second I am soft on my dogs. I am extremely hard. They are all trained above pet dog levels. If I tell my dogs to do something, they do it. A dog will do far more for you because they trust and respect you, than because they are scared not too.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

miss_ferret said:


> give me an hour, iv a mate in the police who works with the sniffer dogs, il find out how true this is





codyman70 said:


> Cool.ask him miss ferret.I know that's how they train their German shepards.I've seen it first hand.


 
Police and armed forces sniffer dogs are trained using reward based training. They make it a game. The reward is a tennis ball or the dogs chosen toy.


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm not talking about putting fear into them.scaring any animal is wrong,but dogs respond to a pecking order.they have to know you are the boss and you will reprimand them if they don't obey.you can't have a massive dog thinking its your equel or your going to get bit.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> do you think the alpha male gives them treats?no it kicks the shite out of them till they learn their place.its just the way it is.dogs respect authority.would you have a big German Shepard challenging you for dominance?I doubt it.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> I'm not talking about putting fear into them.scaring any animal is wrong,but dogs respond to a pecking order.they have to know you are the boss and you will reprimand them if they don't obey.you can't have a massive dog thinking its your equel or your going to get bit.


 
That is the first sensible thing you have said : victory:


If it came down to who is bigger and tougher. A gsd or rott would win over a human. If you use heavy handed methods to train the dog. You are in serious trouble, if they work this out. I get asked all the time how I can do what I do, after all they are big, powerful dogs. Most of them don't know it. I don't mess about. What I say, I mean. Obeying me is extremely rewarding. Some dogs will work for treats, others work for toys. My big man's reward is saying "good boy" or "clever man" is a stupid girly voice. He would sell his sould for it. If you find their motivation and repeat this enough times and they stop thinking. Once that happens, instinct makes them obey. My big man caught a rabbit one day. I told him to leave, he instantly dropped it. Once he dropped it, you could see the wee brain thinking. But but I wanted that. It had become automatic for him to obey. 6 years ago he would have ate me if I tried to get it off him. I'm not saying everyones dogs should be trained to that level. My point is, using positive training. You can train them to a very high level. If I had picked up a plank of wood and used that, he would have been pts 6 years ago and I would probably have ended up in hospital. He is a big lad with absolutely no bite inhibition.


You should watch Mick Martin from Dog borstal. He doesn't use planks of wood


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

codyman70 said:


> Henney and shell.dogs are pack animals by nature.do you think the alpha male gives them treats?no it kicks the shite out of them till they learn their place.its just the way it is.dogs respect authority.would you have a big German Shepard challenging you for dominance?I doubt it.


 
I think you will find that i know exactly how a pack works. My canine family consists of 1 Rottie, 1 GSD, 1 lurcher, 1 staffy cross, 1 Springer x collie, 2 Cavaliers, 1 yorkie cross, 1 Patterdale cross and a Poodle. That is 10 dogs who know exactly who is the boss and all without me touching a piece of wood or a truncheon.
My friend has 11 German Shepherds and each and every one is trained to gold level using reward based training, all you will get if you use violence to train is a nervous aggressive dog


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

miss_ferret said:


> give me an hour, iv a mate in the police who works with the sniffer dogs, il find out how true this is


I think he's right I had a police dog trainer round and he did pretty much what he's saying only using a choke chain So not quiet hitting him but id still imagine it hurts having it yanked therefore letting the dog no who's in charge as much as its harsh 1 hour he's Like a different dog.


I'm by no means condoning hitting ur dog just saying 10 years ago I'd imagine it probably happend I felt guilty with the choak chain but nothing else worked after endless trying this did with my dog and I don't have to do anything now 1 hr with the chain and changing small things I did wrong have shown him I'm in charge


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> You should watch Mick Martin from Dog borstal. He doesn't use planks of wood


now THATS a dog trainer, what he can do with a dog on its last chance is amazing. 
would love to post him mine for a week!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

pigglywiggly said:


> now THATS a dog trainer, what he can do with a dog on its last chance is amazing.
> would love to post him mine for a week!


I think he still works in Hertfordshire training. The guy with the rosy cheeks who was a judge for dog borstal runs Barking Mad Dog Training School Hertfordshire and is very similar in training to him. One of the places I learnt dog training.

Editted to add, ahh yeah found the details. http://www.micmartin.co.uk/25201.html seems out of date though


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Your wrong shell.like I stated earlier my German Shepard was trained by the police and was a great dog.not nervous,afraid or aggressive.very obedient and fiercely protective over me.he was a giant and if I clicked my fingers he would be sitting beside me instantly.a great big dog!he never bit or attacked anyone,but would let people know if they got too close to me.perfectly trained!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

codyman70 said:


> Your wrong shell.like I stated earlier my German Shepard was trained by the police and was a great dog.not nervous,afraid or aggressive.very obedient and fiercely protective over me.he was a giant and if I clicked my fingers he would be sitting beside me instantly.a great big dog!he never bit or attacked anyone,but would let people know if they got too close to me.perfectly trained!


Ive had a few shepherds during my life and they have all behaved like yours without the need for brutality. They are intelligent,loyal, sensitive dogs and there really is no need to use brute force and ignorance to train them!!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I think Codyman is a troll and the same conclusion was reached earlier on the spider section. 

Strange posting record, nothing for ages, then a ton of negative stuff in a day.

Or maybe not, maybe he was trained by his parents too hard and had too many :bash: with a 2x4


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

It was the police who trained him and I think you saying ignorance shows your ignorance.it worked great for my dog and as far as I know all police dogs are pretty well trained.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> now THATS a dog trainer, what he can do with a dog on its last chance is amazing.
> would love to post him mine for a week!


 
He is one of the few televised trainers I would happily work alongside : victory:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

Kare said:


> I think he still works in Hertfordshire training. The guy with the rosy cheeks who was a judge for dog borstal runs Barking Mad Dog Training School Hertfordshire and is very similar in training to him. One of the places I learnt dog training.
> 
> Editted to add, ahh yeah found the details. MIC MARTIN DOG TRAINING seems out of date though


he`d make mincemeat outa me, i`d have to post the dog with a note attached!
:lol2:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> I think he's right I had a police dog trainer round and he did pretty much what he's saying only using a choke chain So not quiet hitting him but id still imagine it hurts having it yanked therefore letting the dog no who's in charge as much as its harsh 1 hour he's Like a different dog.
> 
> 
> I'm by no means condoning hitting ur dog just saying 10 years ago I'd imagine it probably happend I felt guilty with the choak chain but nothing else worked after endless trying this did with my dog and I don't have to do anything now 1 hr with the chain and changing small things I did wrong have shown him I'm in charge


Unfortunately they still use choke chains. It was probably more to do with the change in you that made the difference. When I go help someone with their dog, I show THEM what to do with the dog. I will do the initial training with the dog. Once the dog clicks what I want from it, I will then hand the lead to the owner and show them what to do. Then it is just a case them keeping it up. Like a naughty child, they rebel against the new rules. A lot of owners can't get their head round what you are asking them to do, it is easier to show them. I helped someone with a new staffie, it thought walks were it playing tuggy with the lead and bouncing of your legs to initiate the game. I spent about an hour in a battle of wills with him. My legs were covered in bruises but he got it in the end. Once I handed him over, and taking him back a few times to show the owner again and again, she got it. After that, he walked perfectly for her. 

I managed to do the same thing without a truncheon, plank of wood or a choke chain.

You picked up on the most important bit. It was small mistakes you were making. Most of the time it is things the owner is doing, that create or fail to fix the problem. It just takes someone showing you how to do things different. I rarely do more than the initial battle of wills. It is mainly showing the owner a different way, that works.



codyman70 said:


> Your wrong shell.like I stated earlier my German Shepard was trained by the police and was a great dog.not nervous,afraid or aggressive.very obedient and fiercely protective over me.he was a giant and if I clicked my fingers he would be sitting beside me instantly.a great big dog!he never bit or attacked anyone,but would let people know if they got too close to me.perfectly trained!


 
Can I ask. Why did the police train your dog for you? As already said. Gsd's don't have to be trained to protect. It is a natural instinct, the same a rotties.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

pigglywiggly said:


> he`d make mincemeat outa me, i`d have to post the dog with a note attached!
> :lol2:


 
:lol2: Unfortunately, most of his training is teaching the owner too:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I think you will find that i know exactly how a pack works. My canine family consists of 1 Rottie, 1 GSD, 1 lurcher, 1 staffy cross, 1 Springer x collie, 2 Cavaliers, 1 yorkie cross, 1 Patterdale cross and a Poodle. That is 10 dogs who know exactly who is the boss and all without me touching a piece of wood or a truncheon.
> My friend has 11 German Shepherds and each and every one is trained to gold level using reward based training, all you will get if you use violence to train is a nervous aggressive dog


 
That is when you know your training works. Most people can have one or two dogs with no problem. When you have an actual pack, your abilities are tested. I have 3 rotts of my own and a springer, 2 of the rotts were fosters that had severe behavioural issues. I did that much work with them, I couldn't part with them. As well as that I still foster and train other rescue rotts. I usually get the brats. They come to boot camp :lol2: All done without choke chains, truncheons or planks of wood. The worst come in muzzled but within a couple of days, they are no longer used either.


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## Beardy Boy97 (Dec 13, 2011)

Al I have to say is that this is another one of those threads that is going away from the point.

Regarding the actual thread. My Jack Russell gets over interested in my beardy and millipedes, so I simply don't let him in the room and I don't let him actually see the animals because he will go mad. I would simply not let him in the room. He is a terrier, terriers are breed to be very interseted and hunt other small prey items


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

Beardy Boy97 said:


> Al I have to say is that this is another one of those threads that is going away from the point.
> 
> Regarding the actual thread. My Jack Russell gets over interested in my beardy and millipedes, so I simply don't let him in the room and I don't let him actually see the animals because he will go mad. I would simply not let him in the room. He is a terrier, terriers are breed to be very interseted and hunt other small prey items


 
I have to agree. Terriers are what they are. Like most breeds, they are driven by instinct ie hunt anything that moves :lol2:


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

I was young and he was my first dog fuzzielady.that's why I took advantage of their training program.it turned out great for us both.I had the best dog in the world for almost 15 years.I loved him more than life and when I had him put to sleep I cried like a little girl.he was the best!


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> I was young and he was my first dog fuzzielady.that's why I took advantage of their training program.it turned out great for us both.I had the best dog in the world for almost 15 years.I loved him more than life and when I had him put to sleep I cried like a little girl.he was the best!


 
Careful, you almost sound human :Na_Na_Na_Na:

What was he like before the training course?


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

He had an attitude.you wouldn't wish for.a violent little biting bastard.I could have killed him.I'm just kidding.dont post me hate mail it was a joke.he was a handfull though.I was an 18 yr old boy with a violent psycho dog.I didn't know what else to do,but I got the best dog anywhere ever after.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> He had an attitude.you wouldn't wish for.a violent little biting bastard.I could have killed him.I'm just kidding.dont post me hate mail it was a joke.he was a handfull though.I was an 18 yr old boy with a violent psycho dog.I didn't know what else to do,but I got the best dog anywhere ever after.


 
Attitude is not the same as dominance. A lot of the time dog are labelled as dominant when they're not. All 3 of my rotts could be, even though only one would like to think she is. My big man was scared and was defensive, even my spinger puts him in his place. One of my bitches will appear dominant until a dog tells her to back off. In fact, my springer outs them all in their place. New fosters learn quickly not to invade his space. Even he isn't dominant. He is scared incase they jump on him when playing to will snap at them. The one that would like to think she is dominant, is just full of attitude. She came into rescue at 5 month as an absolute brat. She thought she was boss and how dare anyone think they could tell her what to do. 


What really happened that day was, you learnt how to step up to the plate. You changed, not him. You could take the best trained dog in the world. Give it to someone that had no rules or boundaries. I can guarantee, within a few weeks, it will be a different dog. The same the other way. Take an absolte brat of a dog, give it to someone that knows what they are doing, result would be a different dog, even without harsh handling.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

fuzzielady said:


> Unfortunately they still use choke chains. It was probably more to do with the change in you that made the difference. When I go help someone with their dog, I show THEM what to do with the dog. I will do the initial training with the dog. Once the dog clicks what I want from it, I will then hand the lead to the owner and show them what to do. Then it is just a case them keeping it up. Like a naughty child, they rebel against the new rules. A lot of owners can't get their head round what you are asking them to do, it is easier to show them. I helped someone with a new staffie, it thought walks were it playing tuggy with the lead and bouncing of your legs to initiate the game. I spent about an hour in a battle of wills with him. My legs were covered in bruises but he got it in the end. Once I handed him over, and taking him back a few times to show the owner again and again, she got it. After that, he walked perfectly for her.
> 
> I managed to do the same thing without a truncheon, plank of wood or a choke chain.
> 
> ...


My dog was 2 and half years old just trying to become the alpha male in the house realy happy with how the training went we watched loads of shows bought loads of books and nothing else. Worked for me at 1 point he was lunging at anybody that came near me after neuting , training and changing simple things like making him stay in his bed whilst I greet guests and not letting him he realy is a different dog


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> My dog was 2 and half years old just trying to become the alpha male in the house realy happy with how the training went we watched loads of shows bought loads of books and nothing else. Worked for me at 1 point he was lunging at anybody that came near me after neuting , training and changing simple things like making him stay in his bed whilst I greet guests and not letting him he realy is a different dog


 
That's brilliant. It's a great sense of achievement when you see the before and after : victory:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

I have four dogs and its interesting to note that we found Ridley our jack russell the hardest to train and indeed he has appauling manners!
I would never own one again, not because they are bad dogs BUT because as people my Oh and I dont work with THEM... on the other hand my two Old tymes are much better... Gus has the odd silly moment but he's still only a year old... 
And i think some of it is his laddish ways! But we seemed to gel better with this type of dog...

Our pack is fairly well balanced, i'm not gonna lie and pretend its all marvellous etc as we are tested every day...LOL

but i do think sometimes its interesting to note that maybe certain people dont gel aswell with certain breeds of dogs...


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Mmm, I might try using a plank of wood next time I train my Chihuahuas.... :whistling2:

Also, note that the pack hierachy theory has been disproven.


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## Spider Call (Mar 23, 2007)

I can safely say that I have never hit one of my dogs, yet they listen to me better than anyone else. I use reward based training and it has worked brilliantly.
Like yours my terriers take great interest in anything that could be viewed as prey, with a lot of treats and the word leave I have finally got them to a point that they can be in a room with my hamsters.


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

When was the pack hierarchy proven wrong zoo-man?It's a fact dogs are pack animals.


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## Tequila (Jan 13, 2012)

codyman70 said:


> When was the pack hierarchy proven wrong zoo-man?It's a fact dogs are pack animals.


The Myth of 'Alpha Dog' - Dogland

Wolf News and Info - L. David Mech


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

That link is bull and totally contradictory.it states that dogs don't look upto an alpha male then states at the end the best way to become the "alpha dog" as it states.read things before posting them.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

codyman70 said:


> When was the pack hierarchy proven wrong zoo-man?It's a fact dogs are pack animals.


Here ya go....

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Dominance in dogs


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## Tequila (Jan 13, 2012)

codyman70 said:


> That link is bull and totally contradictory.it states that dogs don't look upto an alpha male then states at the end the best way to become the "alpha dog" as it states.read things before posting them.


You claim to know an awful lot about dominance in canines and haven't heard of David Mech? Funny.


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Why is it funny I've never heard of David mech?who is he and why should I have heard of him?


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## Tequila (Jan 13, 2012)

He's just a leading expert on wolf behavior and the one who made the term "alpha wolf" known to the world in one of his books. One should think followers of the dominance theory knew their stuff other than just saying dogs are pack animals that compete with humans for dominance. I'd like to see some proof, why is this the case and who said so? No one seems to be able to explain and prove this.

If you looked at my second link there's a video interview with him there. 

Here's another link that explains better than I can in English http://www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf , I'd also recommend reading the links Zoo-Man posted. 

I recently saw some footage of the UK police training their dogs, no big pieces of wood or alpha rolls there, but a lot of kongs and tennis balls.

My intact 3 year old male purebred Perro de Presa Canario is laying on the couch with me right now, by the way. I wonder if he's secretly planning to take over the household :whistling2:


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

So what does alpha wolf mean?


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Who said david mech was the authority on canine behavior.I've never heard of him and I've seen the great David Attenborough talk about the alpha male in wolf packs.I'd rather listen to a great man like David Attenborough than someone I've never heard of. David Attenborough has seen more wild animals than anyone else on the planet.


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## Tequila (Jan 13, 2012)

:lol2: Could it be because you really have no actual knowledge on this topic? If you'd read the links given to you you would know what an alpha wolf is, or rather isn't.

I have a lot of respect for David Attenborough, but he has not dedicated his life to the studies of wolves. Read up.

EOD from me, I just can't be bothered.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

codyman70 said:


> Who said david mech was the authority on canine behavior.I've never heard of him and I've seen the great David Attenborough talk about the alpha male in wolf packs.I'd rather listen to a great man like David Attenborough than someone I've never heard of. David Attenborough has seen more wild animals than anyone else on the planet.


As much as I respect David Attenborough, he's a naturalist and knows a lot about a lot of animals, but that doesn't make him a specialist in wolves.

The difference in David Mech and David Attenborough is that Mech has spent over 40 years studying the behaviour of wolves and wolves only, whereas Attenborough hasn't.

Apart from which when someone who is an 'expert' tells the world that he was wrong when he told us all about the alpha wolf, then he has my respect.

No-one ever knows it all - we are always learning and obviously Mech has learned more since he wrote his first book and is prepared to admit he got it wrong


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

ok so looks like every1 is gettting on  :lol2: 
quick update on the situation, i took your advice fuzzy and within half an hour he was listening to me insted of bieng 100% focused on the viv. from there ive gone to tell him to leave it and make him jump on the bed then i would give him a treat... this is were he gets smarter than your adverage dog 5 min later he jumps off the bed back to the viv and i repet "leave it" then he jumps on bed and gets a treat about two min later he jumps back down gets to the viv just as i started saying leave it he jumped on the bed and wanted the treat, then for about 30min he took the piss out of me by instantly going back to the viv then coming on the bed to get a treat. he knew he had to look at the viv then come to me and he would get a treat. so we can say it worked but not quite as planned. however i did try something abit different that has helped him with his issue, my dog hates sounds such as the hair dryer, hoover and any sort of unexpected banging or rattling. i have a few fishing rods next to the viv so i tryed something out, everytime he would approach the viv i rattled the rods, he would run and jump on the bed then he would come back and id do it again, eventually he was actually walking into my room and giving the viv a wide berth as he knew if he got too close this ment rattling.

he has got better he will sit on the bed an watch the viv insted of sitting next to it which i dont really mind. i was mostly worryed about him jumping and putting the glass through or something but to be honest he is much much better and he understands the command leave it now  thanks you all for the advice i guess its sort of worked :2thumb:

oh and i also got a big piece of wood and beat him with it a few times till he was cowwering in a corner, the only effect this had was a huge penis growing out of my head :lol2: (i was joking btw)


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## codyman70 (Dec 3, 2009)

Call me anything you want,but it sounds like the treat advice didn't work.he was as you said taking the piss out of you,he only started listening when you scared him.I don't agree with scaring animals of any kind It's wrong.


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## Carl6688 (Jan 18, 2011)

codyman70 said:


> Call me anything you want,but it sounds like the treat advice didn't work.he was as you said taking the piss out of you,he only started listening when you scared him.I don't agree with scaring animals of any kind It's wrong.


Yet you think it's ok to beat them with a plank of wood? I find it hard to believe you are for real, is it possible for people to be this stupid? 

Also TC I recently introduced my newfie to my skink. She hadn't shown any interest in him before, but the other day while I had the tank open and was feeding him, she decided to come over and have a sniff, this was the result: 










I've never seen those little stubby legs move so fast!


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

But that's not scaring an animal in the sense that its petrified and cowering in a corner!!!
That's using sound to warn the dog...
Our big old tyme hates papers being rattled!
If needs be I use a rolled up newspaper to warn him of he is going to far

He's a big dog and to grab him and pull him away would be ineffective and slow... As I'd need all my power.
It's far quicker and safer to scare him away then reward him when he's calmed down and is dealing withthe situation sensibly.
Also I use it to distract him when he is having a stubborn moment.


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## jnr (Jan 1, 2009)

Reading this thread..What the hell has a Patterdale terrier got to do with German shepherds, Rottweillers, police training techniques, alpha wolves, David Attenborough or any of the other rubbish that has been posted on this thread..really folks some of you really need to get your ego's under control.

Patterdales are fantastic working terriers, arguably one of the best working terriers, its in their nature to be inquisitive & hunt, in reality like most terriers given the opportunity they are by nature killing machines, If you are concerned for your reptiles welfare, dont let him in the room..given the opportunity he probably would attack your lizard..its what they were bred for.
If the previous owner reckoned he ate their parrot I wouldn't rule it out..Patterdales can be great pets, when their work button switches on they go to work.
Good luck with the wee guy :2thumb:


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

codyman70 said:


> Call me anything you want,but it sounds like the treat advice didn't work.he was as you said taking the piss out of you,he only started listening when you scared him.I don't agree with scaring animals of any kind It's wrong.


i didnt call you anything mate. and he did listen when using the treats but he figured out how to exploit it. using the treats ive taught him to not focus on 1 thing and ive also got him to leave things on command, remember the dog was oblivious to the fact i was even talking to him so id say it did work but he also figured out how to exploit it and as for scaring him, do you really think i would 'scare' my dog that has took me so long to get used to people and trusting them again after bieng misstreated. lots of people have dogs that dont like noises such as hoovers etc this dosnt mean when the dogs hear them they run and cower in a corner, they just move away from area the noise is comming from because they dont like it not because there terrified that there going to get a beating. ive herd of methods to train dogs were you use a few pieces of rolled up newspaper and you bop them on the nose, eventually they stop doing whatever it is wrong because they dont like the noise not because it has hurt them and they are then scared. oh and apprentley you disagree with scaring animals of any kind and it is wrong.... your the one who suggested i use a big piece of wood to train my rehabilitated terrier, you my friend are an idiot. what do you think a big piece of wood is going to do? you hit them with it when there bad and what they arent going to be scared everytime you have that piece of wood in your hand? in the past ive had 2 rottwieler x german shepards and 3 great daynes 1 of the rottys would rip your arm off if he didnt know you and you came in the house without a member of my family. however he was never once nasty if he knew you were with the family or if he was out on a walk, he would obey your every command, and guess what this didnt involve a big piece of wood to train him. from what ive read your very very ignorant to what people have to say and you seem to assume that because someone else has said something they must be wrong and im not just talking about this thread ive read others were you seem to argue the point that people shouldnt be doing it there way they should be doing it your way because every other way of doing something is wrong. i wouldnt mind if it was that way and you were actually giving good advice the fact that it isnt good advice is infact very dangerous. say for instance i was completely new to dogs, and didnt have a clue what to do or what not to do, and i had posted this, i could have caused serious injury and emotional scarring to a dog because of your dangerous advice on using a big piece of wood to train him.
thats all i have to say if ignorance is bliss.... you must be very happy


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

I found that patterdales tend to not be treat motivated but tend to be toy motivated. My patterdale only once went for my hamsters and after a week of training she was fine with them however i would never leave her in the room alone with them


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

selina20 said:


> I found that patterdales tend to not be treat motivated but tend to be toy motivated. My patterdale only once went for my hamsters and after a week of training she was fine with them however i would never leave her in the room alone with them


To be honest he dosnt really play with toys, he gots loadz of them but when he wants something to chew he usually finds he most expensive thing in my room and has a go at that (i came home one day to find my surround sound headset had been obliterated £80 out the window) now he gets locked outside of my room when im not in:lol2:


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

henney2280 said:


> To be honest he dosnt really play with toys, he gots loadz of them but when he wants something to chew he usually finds he most expensive thing in my room and has a go at that (i came home one day to find my surround sound headset had been obliterated £80 out the window) now he gets locked outside of my room when im not in:lol2:


Hehehe sounds about right lol. Mine is a proper little madam haha. The selective hearing they have is just fantastic.................not.


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## fuzzielady (May 19, 2008)

henney2280 said:


> ok so looks like every1 is gettting on  :lol2:
> quick update on the situation, i took your advice fuzzy and within half an hour he was listening to me insted of bieng 100% focused on the viv. from there ive gone to tell him to leave it and make him jump on the bed then i would give him a treat... this is were he gets smarter than your adverage dog 5 min later he jumps off the bed back to the viv and i repet "leave it" then he jumps on bed and gets a treat about two min later he jumps back down gets to the viv just as i started saying leave it he jumped on the bed and wanted the treat, then for about 30min he took the piss out of me by instantly going back to the viv then coming on the bed to get a treat. he knew he had to look at the viv then come to me and he would get a treat. so we can say it worked but not quite as planned. however i did try something abit different that has helped him with his issue, my dog hates sounds such as the hair dryer, hoover and any sort of unexpected banging or rattling. i have a few fishing rods next to the viv so i tryed something out, everytime he would approach the viv i rattled the rods, he would run and jump on the bed then he would come back and id do it again, eventually he was actually walking into my room and giving the viv a wide berth as he knew if he got too close this ment rattling.
> 
> he has got better he will sit on the bed an watch the viv insted of sitting next to it which i dont really mind. i was mostly worryed about him jumping and putting the glass through or something but to be honest he is much much better and he understands the command leave it now  thanks you all for the advice i guess its sort of worked :2thumb:
> ...


Sounds like he outfoxed you. Instead of learning "leave", meant stay away and don't touch. You taught him "leave" meant, look at viv then jump on bed to get a treat:lol2: What you did with the fishing rods, I was saying to do with putting him out the room. It is doing something he doesn't like, every time he went near the viv. Not exactly as planned but I suppose you got there : victory:




codyman70 said:


> Call me anything you want,but it sounds like the treat advice didn't work.he was as you said taking the piss out of you,he only started listening when you scared him.I don't agree with scaring animals of any kind It's wrong.


If he had continued removing him from the room, it would have worked the same. You don't have to beat a dog to add negative reinforcement. When you have to beat a dog into submission it is time to stop keeping dogs. It is the lazy adopted by people that don't have a clue how to do it any other way.


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## henney2280 (Jan 12, 2012)

selina20 said:


> Hehehe sounds about right lol. Mine is a proper little madam haha. The selective hearing they have is just fantastic.................not.


oh yes selective hearing i agree with you on that.


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