# Opinions wanted!!



## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

Hi! 

I have commited to a pair of White's and will be getting them in 4 sleeps time! (YAY really excited!!)

This is the tank yesterday (I didn't like it like this)











This is now










I thought it made more sense to keep the mature plants together for more places to hide instead of spreading them out like before. I can't wait for it all to grow in!

Personally i don't like that root thing, i want to replace it with a branch but i have been having trouble frinding one big enough and im a bit worrid about recent bug trouble i have read about from andaroo. 

Also i'm a bit worrid about my tiny pothos lol, the frogs are only babies so should be ok for now but i do hope it grows faster than them, other wise it will be squashed, im sure it will be fine though.

Also I do plan on getting some fake plants and another vine tomorrow but the shop was closed today. I know there needs to more hiding places up high so will post new photos tomorow.

Anyway thanks for reading and all opinions welcome! :2thumb:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I would highly recommend a simple and completely artificial set up for small white's. I have changed my set up *so* many times... used paper towels, then used eco earth, removed it when they just got covered in it, then back to paper towels, gave eco earth another go when they were a little bigger and i also dried it out completely but still stuck all over them, then back to paper towels, now nothing after one tried to eat it.

The lucky reptile flexi branches are good, I have one in my tank right now. Once they reach adult size then switch the tank to a more realistic set up. I can not even see mine during the day and I have less things in it than you do lol.


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

it's looking good!! where did you get the planter from on the left? is it just stuck on the glass? I've never seen one of these before, I like it!!
but yeh otherwise, it's great! and you shouldn't have any probs with the pothos, it does grow fast. I do agree with you that some higher planting for hiding places will be good for them.
also if they are tiny babies, you might be best sticking some large pebbles or a rock or something in the water bowl so they have somewhere to get out onto if needed, plenty of babies have drowned in shallow water if they struggle to get out.


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

O really? Hmm that makes me sad  i have been trying so hard to get a natural look. Seems such a waste to start again. But thanks very much, I will certainly keep that in mind. Won't be a problem to remove plants and keep them outside the tank for a while, eco earth sealed in a bag, no trouble at all.

Do you mind posting a photo of you're set-up. You have such lovely frogs you must be doing something right : victory:

Thanks again


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

o and yeah jen thanks for that i actually have a branch i plan on putting on/in, but im not quite sure how tiny they are gonna be. Thanks for reminding me.

O and i got the planter from reptilekeeping.net, i highly recommend this place if you haven't already used it. Its stuck on with silicone.


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

God I'm soooooooooooo jealous - after falling in love with the gorgeous little paper towel eating frog I'm soooo tempted to beg hubby for one for my birthday so will be following this with interest. I'd be interested to see other set ups as well please and also if anyone can point me in the direction of a care sheet that'd be great.

Andaroo - hubby said you started all this - he's not your friend cos I'm sposed to be on an animal bann :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: :lol2:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> O really? Hmm that makes me sad  i have been trying so hard to get a natural look. Seems such a waste to start again. But thanks very much, I will certainly keep that in mind. Won't be a problem to remove plants and keep them outside the tank for a while, eco earth sealed in a bag, no trouble at all.
> 
> Do you mind posting a photo of you're set-up. You have such lovely frogs you must be doing something right : victory:
> 
> Thanks again


These past couple of months since I've got them all i've done is switch the tank around. It started off all tropical looking like this 










Could barely see them at all when it was like that, so I took a few pieces out and switched to paper towels.

When I got my cork background and grape vine i changed the set up again and made it look more realistic.










I was really happy with that until 3 weeks later found out the grape vine was infested.

Disinfected the tank and all plants, used paper towel substrate and no background.

It was such a nightmare feeding them, i tried moving them into another tank to feed them but it was too much work and they got stressed out. I tried feeding them in the living tank and the crickets would get everywhere and there would still be loads left in the tank by the morning. I find now with nothing for the crickets to climb up feeding time is really easy and they get all of them cos theres no where they can hide!

I'll take a picture of the current set up and then post it in a min...


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

They both look beautiful, i can see why you removed some bits from the first though, no point even having them if you can't ever see them lol.

I LOVE the second photo, its such a shame you had those problems, first time i saw it i was like "that is how i want mine to look!". I was a few clicks away from ordering a grape vine from 888reptiles when i saw the post about the investation!

Yeah feeding is gonna be a bit of a nightmare how i have my tank now, especially if they are tiny babies!

I found it quite easy to find care sheets for white's just pop White's tree frog into google and its all there. 

This was a good one though http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/whitestreefrog.html
but read loads cos they do have a tendency to contradict each other sometimes.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

This is it now, no background, no substrate, lots of fake plants, branches and suction cups!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> I found it quite easy to find care sheets for white's just pop White's tree frog into google and its all there.
> 
> This was a good one though Amphibiancare.com >> White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea) Care
> but read loads cos they do have a tendency to contradict each other sometimes.



I have a few good care sheets bookmarked. I always go back to this one White's Tree Frog (Litoria caerulea)
I have been following it since I first got them, the part about feeding dusted crickets daily until they reach 2 inches long and feeding the crickets fish flakes.


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

So do you not recomend using wet paper towel as substrate? 
I like the mug tree with fake plant wrapped around it! :lol2:
Must be a easy to keep clean!


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

Thank you both for the care sheet links - will have a good read through both of them and probably be back with lots of questions. Know what you mean about contradicting advice I found this with my tortoises and GALS. Thanks again :notworthy:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> So do you not recomend using wet paper towel as substrate?
> I like the mug tree with fake plant wrapped around it! :lol2:
> Must be a easy to keep clean!


Yeah I would use wet paper towels. I guess cos mine had dried it's the reason it tried to eat it? hmmm... I found the crickets would always some how manage to get in between and underneath the paper towels, maybe i'll try making them completely soggy :lol2:

It's feeding time now lol hope there are no accidents tonight! :lol2:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

this is my set up, it's all fake plants though as mine are adults and trash anything they land on LOL


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Lol Mrs Mental
here's some pics for you that i just took


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

:flrt: I love you!! :lol2: Thank you :notworthy:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

awww, they've grown tons!!!


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

jennlovesfrogs said:


> awww, they've grown tons!!!


They are tiny!! Wow they must have been 'iccle babies when you got them!

I think i'm gonna keep the tank as it is and see how it goes but if i have any problems at least i have a cheap alternative. I'll invest in the fake plants now incase they are little monsters! :devil: And if they get mucky all the time i'll switch to paper towels lol i think of that photo of your frog every time i think of paper towels. Always makes me giggle!:lol2:

I want to bulk out the high part of the tank anyway. I'll post more photos when its done. 

Arrrr i'm so excited!!! I want them now!!!


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

Awwwwwwwwwwwww I'm excited for you!!!! :lol2: (Note to self......get out more!!)


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

Mrs Mental said:


> Awwwwwwwwwwwww I'm excited for you!!!! :lol2: (Note to self......get out more!!)


lol its all good! I get excited really easily anyway so im practically bouncing off the walls :lol2:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> They are tiny!! Wow they must have been 'iccle babies when you got them!
> 
> I think i'm gonna keep the tank as it is and see how it goes but if i have any problems at least i have a cheap alternative. I'll invest in the fake plants now incase they are little monsters! :devil: And if they get mucky all the time i'll switch to paper towels lol i think of that photo of your frog every time i think of paper towels. Always makes me giggle!:lol2:
> 
> ...



Yeah they were really really small when i got them 2 months ago!





































They were gobbling up medium sized crickets when I got them! (That's what the guy gave me at the pet store, I was like they can eat those that big? and he said yup, when I first fed them i was like OMG they pounced on these crickets, grabbed them with their hands and started gobbling them up :lol2 I switched to smaller after they had all gone so they could eat them easily


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

those pics are brilliant, really made me smile


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

gorgeous aren't they


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

:flrt::flrt::flrt::flrt: ohhhhhhhhhhhhh please stop it!!!! Its torture!!!:bash:


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

OMG i just went to my local pet shop and they have got 6 of the TINEST white's i have ever seen!! I actually squealed really loud when i saw them, got loadsa funny looks but the lady who owns the shop understood :lol2: Gonna get 2 once the shop has made sure they are feeding properly, they arn't even for sale yet they are such tiny babies!! Hopefully they will be ready on Friday.

They are so small i can't put them in the viv i prepared lol gotta prepare a tempory tank when i get home. 

omg im in loooove :flrt:

I think im gonna call them rhubarb and custard, inspired by fish and chips! :2thumb:

Argh!! I'm so excited i could :blowup: can't wait to get them home! I will take loads of photos!!!


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ps wicked photos as well! good job! :2thumb::no1:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

LOL what you like!!! i don't blame you though, seeing the little teeny ones is sooo cute, mine are huge monsterous sized ones now LOL this is one of mine 










she's about the size of the palm of my hand, so approx 4 inches or so snout to vent. and 8 mths old. She's called Froggy (very original I know, you can blame my 7 yr old for that one!) just don't ask what my other 2 are called LOL.


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

Froggy is absolutely gorgeous bless her!!:flrt:

God they are lovely aren't they - Sylva can you sneak back to the shop please and get some pics of the babies for me........go on go on you know you want to, I'll be your best friend :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy: 

How the hell are you gonna wait till Friday woman thats 4 more days - I'd be camping outside the shop if I was you :lol2:


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

oooo froggy is lovely!! Nice and chubby!! :2thumb:

lol i want to but i don't think they allow photos :sad: I can't even do a sneaky one cos they are being kept back as their not actually for sale yet, i got a sneak preview! 

And don't encourage me!!! They think im mental enough as it is in that place lol always making funny high pitched noises! 

Don't worry im gonna be really trigger happy with the camera once i get them, you'll all be fed up with me this time next week :lol2:


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## Mrs Mental (May 5, 2009)

As if I'd encourage you at all :whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: 

Can just picture you Mission Impossible music in the background crawling commando style through the undergrowth, sorry I mean shop, with your little camera in one hand and a big branch in the other to hide behind.....que MI music!!!:lol2:


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

Haha!! That would be the end of me, i'd be carted off by the men in white coats!!
:lol2:


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## emogirl (Apr 30, 2009)

wow some of these tanks are really really cool wish id of seen some of these before i got my tree frog!! sadly he died due to miss information from the breeder x


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## arthur cooke (Jan 22, 2008)

I may be stating the obvious, but wouldn't the best substrate be one of the mosses?
cheers arthur


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

there's mixed thoughts on moss.

some people swear by it others say it can cause impaction and dead frogs,

personally i use moss, but it's living moss then again i don't buy a viv and put a frog in it.
i buy a frog , build an ecosystem get it growing for a few months then put a frog in it.
moss is nigh on impossible to get growing in a viv that has frogs in it already


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

yeah i've heard mixed views but at the end of the day moss holds water and therefore increases humidity which White's don't need a lot of. 

But i'm gonna experiment a bit cause every one has different experiences even with the same species. I wouldn't ever use loose moss because of the potential risk of impaction, better safe than sorry.


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> OMG i just went to my local pet shop and they have got 6 of the TINEST white's i have ever seen!! I actually squealed really loud when i saw them, got loadsa funny looks but the lady who owns the shop understood :lol2: Gonna get 2 once the shop has made sure they are feeding properly, they arn't even for sale yet they are such tiny babies!! Hopefully they will be ready on Friday.
> 
> They are so small i can't put them in the viv i prepared lol gotta prepare a tempory tank when i get home.
> 
> ...


:lol2: 

When I went to the pet store looking to buy a frog I saw those and when the guy told me they were white's i was was quite shocked because they were soooooo small and brown! When i took them home though they turned green :flrt: and were really active! 
They were about 2cm each now they are about 5cm :flrt:

Where the ones you saw smaller than 2cm?

Rhubarb and Custard haha :lol2: cute!

I picked out the biggest one(chips) and and the one with the cutest face (fish) when i got mine. Chips was noticably bigger when I got them now not so much. I think Fish is a boy and chips is a girl :flrt:

So if your getting the babies then I would put them in a really basic setup for a few weeks, feed them daily with calcium dusted crickets until they reach 2 1/2 inches. They need to be in a basic setup so they don't fall off anything and hurt themselves!


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ooooook! I have sorted my big tank out and im quite happy with it although i do have a feeling that will change as i am very indecisive.

I just added another vine and a fake plant to give more hidy climby places, but i'm worrid that im never gonna see them now lol. 



















Also i set up small temporary tank for when i first get them, not 100% if this is gonna be necessary, but i thought better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. 
I don't want to put them in the big tank and them not be able to find their food. Which im starting to think is gonna be the case. They are soooooooo tiny!!! I wish i could have all six but alas i have no more space. :sad: 



















Anyway feel free to advise me, I am a noob :lol2: Personaly though im happy with the results.


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

andaroo said:


> :lol2:
> 
> When I went to the pet store looking to buy a frog I saw those and when the guy told me they were white's i was was quite shocked because they were soooooo small and brown! When i took them home though they turned green :flrt: and were really active!
> They were about 2cm each now they are about 5cm :flrt:
> ...


Between 1-2cm. To be honest i think what i will do is take the plants and the eco-earth out for now and do what you said with the sterile thing. I don't want them geting hurt or anything, just a branch some fake plants, paper towels for substrate.

That reminds me, does the paper towel have to be changed every day? And if so is that not a compleate pain in the :censor:?

Yeah i like rhubard and custard but also salt and pepper! :lol2:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

You really use keep them in the small temparary tank for the first month. They will hide under that piece of wood (mine did and I had a piece very similar) so I would take it out until they are too big to fit under it. You should have more branches than leaves, like a small exo terra vine or something that is about as high as the middle of the tank. They are very active and fragile so any higher the branch the more likely they would get hurt if they fell. Also the plant is too busy they could get there legs tangled in it and hurt themselves. I went through all of this having to raise mine until they were big and strong enough to go into the main tank. 

Think of it this way, you are kind of quarantining them until you have raised them to atleast twice the size, so they need extra care and attention. At feeding time take all the stuff out the tank and put the crickets in so you can see how many they are eating each. 

I bought my big tank a week or so after getting the frogs and I was so anxious to move them in but at the same time worried in case they hurt themselves in such a big space! So i waited until i had had them a month and by then they had grown a fair amount.

Hope this helps! :lol2:


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> Between 1-2cm. To be honest i think what i will do is take the plants and the eco-earth out for now and do what you said with the sterile thing. I don't want them geting hurt or anything, just a branch some fake plants, paper towels for substrate.
> 
> That reminds me, does the paper towel have to be changed every day? And if so is that not a compleate pain in the :censor:?
> 
> Yeah i like rhubard and custard but also salt and pepper! :lol2:


Depends how much mess they make... i changed it about every 2 days or so.

I've estimated that mine will be adult size by september-october. I can't wait to have big fatties :flrt: It's fun watching them grow!


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

That is very helpfull, thanks for the heads up about the log. Maybe a small branch i have, its perfectly clean and frog worthy so i can't see any potential problems. Also i'll remove some of the leafy bits from the bushy thing


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ok sooooo...


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

I would get some aquarium background paper too, they will more secure and happy this way.

This is what mine grew up in 










Took the wood out cos they hid under it all the time, and added another bamboo stick. I think I took the orchid out too after reading somewhere that they shouldn't have any plants until they are bigger... So get backing paper, take the leaves out completely add another branch/vine/ or anything with bigger leaves and a little rock hide for them to hide in. : victory:


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ok well yeah the background thing seems like a no brainer, should have thought of that. 

But a rock for them to hide under? They are tree frogs after all, surely they would be climbing from a young age in the wild and bush like things would be good for hiding in? 

ok cool, i really appreciate all the help. Thanks very much and keep it coming!


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Sylva said:


> ok well yeah the background thing seems like a no brainer, should have thought of that.
> 
> But a rock for them to hide under? They are tree frogs after all, surely they would be climbing from a young age in the wild and bush like things would be good for hiding in?
> 
> ok cool, i really appreciate all the help. Thanks very much and keep it coming!


They need something secure to hide in. I can't remember if i had one in mine... one slept on one of the bamboo leaves and the other slept stuck to the side where the heat mat was. See how they are with that plant, mine now slide down the plants like that head first with there sticky feet slowing them down :lol2: Just worried that if a baby did this they might get tangled up and hurt themselves. Do what you feel is best, read some more care sheets that includes care for froglets/juveniles.


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ok sorry i dont mean to argue with you lol. Just seemed a bit strange but i will keep an eye on them, and it will be removed staright away if i see any problems. 

Once again thanks!!! :no1:


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

personally I would provide a small fake plant, something like one of the exo terra silk plants. so they have a choice of where to hide. also something that is easy to move and clean and soft and won't do a small frog any harm.  

ps, how many sleeps now? lol.


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

Lots more sleeps unfortunatly :sad:

I'm going to Hertfordshire for 3 days to visit a friend at uni, so i've had to put it off till Wednesday! 

Very annoying but lucky i don't already have the frogs. 
Once i get them its no social life for me, not for a couple of weeks anyway. (They do need feeding everyday when they are tiny don't they?)

So yeah 8 sleeps :sad:


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## captaincarot (Mar 20, 2008)

if you have to go away aand leave small frogs for any length of time, buy crickets at least 2 sizes smaller than they usually eat, 

get an empty cricket tub, and cut a hole just big enough for the crickets to get out of in the side, put some eggbox in the tub, with a decent supply of gut loading cricket food and also put some cricket dust inside the box.
then place a supply of crickets into the tub and put it in their tank.
the crickets will venture out to get moisture and when they do get scoffed.

don't put loads of crickets in it as they can gang up on a small frog and kill it which is another reason for using ones that can be easily subdued by the frogs.
and i wouldn't recommend using this for more than a couple of days but in an emergency you can get away with it.


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## jennlovesfrogs (Jan 22, 2009)

you would need to feed young frogs everyday yes. a word of warning though, make sure you feed the frogs when they are awake, of the crickets will run and hide behind the background before they get eaten. also don't over feed, not only do the crickets eat live plants, nibble on frogs, they will also eat the background, and a cricket full of polystyrene can't be very tasty! xxx

but..... as you are using a little temporary home for them for a while you won't need to cross this hurdle for a while yet


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## Sylva (May 1, 2009)

ok thanks guys! Shame i have to put off getting my frogs but at least i get to see them tomorrow!


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## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

weird question, as I don't keep frogs, if they're nocturnal do you have to stay up late to feed them? And wake up early to feed them again? That must sound stupid but I don't really know a lot about exotic frogs at the moment, I have a turtle, but I'm considering getting one so any info helps


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Snookers said:


> weird question, as I don't keep frogs, if they're nocturnal do you have to stay up late to feed them? And wake up early to feed them again? That must sound stupid but I don't really know a lot about exotic frogs at the moment, I have a turtle, but I'm considering getting one so any info helps


Mine have a light cycle of 8am-9pm. At about 9.15pm both of them are awake and sat at the bottom of the tank waiting to be fed. I feed them every night around 10 or 11. Then they sit there most of the night with their bellies full :lol2: Then they go back to sleep when ever it gets lighter in the room, I've woke up at 5am and one was asleep but the tank lights don't come on until 8am. Sometimes I see one trying to find a sleeping spot after the lights have come on :flrt:


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## Snookers (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks Andaroo, that makes sense. Do they wake you up in the night? Actually, I guess that depends where you keep them, would they wake you up if they were close by?


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## andaroo (Nov 14, 2008)

Snookers said:


> Thanks Andaroo, that makes sense. Do they wake you up in the night? Actually, I guess that depends where you keep them, would they wake you up if they were close by?


They are kept in my bedroom next to my bed. At the moment they don't wake me up or bother me. 1 of them croaks for about 5 seconds pretty much every night but as he is only 2 inches it's not loud at all and i'm always awake when I hear it. Not sure if it will wake me up when he's fully grown though, i'm thinking it's a possibility as their adult calls are like barks :lol2:


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