# Change to large constrictor sales..



## burmman (Oct 30, 2008)

So i saw today a couple of shops are no longer going to be selling retics, Anaconda's etx..

Whats your views?

1 of the shops was worried about the anti reptile movement. 

And i get it. But also i feel that not enough checks/questions are asked?.

I tested this one my self. Went in and got a young AfRock. No questions asked etx. I have experience with said species so no problems with any questions that might of been asked. My disappointment was they didn't really care as such, just another sales.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

The few shows still running also do not allow these to be sold, along with a small number of genetic mutations such as the spider gene in royals.
I have mixed views. On one hand, it is not illegal to own them, so why should a shop refuse to sell them?
There have also been, as far as I am aware, NO fatalities in the UK from such species.
On the other hand, they have the greatest potential of any legally owned snake to do just that. With so many other, less dangerous, species available, perhaps this is a sensible move.


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

I think this has more to do with the limited market on large constrictors. Generally people who want a large constrictor or just getting into the hobby of owning large snakes would go to a breeder to buy one. I personally would never buy any snake from a pet shop for a couple reasons.

They are priced more than a breeder. Understandably because they have bigger overheads & staff to pay.
From my experience from pet shops…. They aren’t as knowledgeable as the breeders on a particular breed as they sell all types of reptiles. As I stated, this is from my personal experience from years ago when I got into Royals, so this isn’t always the case! I will only buy my Retics from trusted breeders that I know & have dealt with for a long time.​
The other reason you probably won’t find pet shops selling large constrictors is the space required & the food bill required to keep them in the shop. Their overheads would be massive & wouldn’t be profitable on say a Retic that is only worth £100.

The local RSPCA Reptile Rescue local to me has had the same yellow anaconda in there for 4yrs. The cost & space of keeping this animal has far outweighed the cost of the animal.

None of my local pet shops have never sold large snakes. Always been corns & Royals only. There was a bit of a trend about 2yrs ago where everyone wanted a Retic cos they thought it was cool to have a large snake, but then soon realised they grow big quick & the upkeep is costly, so luckily it was only a short lived trend that kinda put the market back to where it was. Which if I’m honest with you…… I like it like this.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

Personally, maybe its a good thing. Given the food drive, intelligence and potential size that not only requires a large enclosure but also two people to safely move an adult retic I've always classed these snakes as being a specialist species, possibly in the advanced rather than intermediate category. One viewpoint could be that a retailer without morals will be only too happy to move on a young retic for the reasons covered above, passing on the food bill, heating cost and thus reducing the shops overheads whilst making a sale in the proceeds.

I'm not sure about the comment that a first time purchaser who is new to the hobby will seek out a private breeder, rather than visit the nearest reptile shop. Most people do not know about the clubs, forums and private breeders when they first start, and only then after the purchase do they find RFUK and discover the other options. That said I agree that a lot of the shops lack staff with the knowledge to answer most questions. I was in one reptile outlet a few years back and overheard the conversation where someone was considering the purchase of a young yearling boa. They asked about the adult size and how large an enclosure would be required, and the assistant quoted a 48" x 24" x 18" as suitable as boa's don't get that large. I had to interject and stated that the boa I had at home was over 8' long, weighed in at over 11kg and was in a viv that was around 72" x 21" x 21" and in reality that could be larger. Needless to say they walked away from the sale as they had been given false information from the retailer. I didn't do that to piss the retailer off, and lose a sale, I did it for the snake which would either have been re-homed after a couple of years when it outgrew its small enclosure.


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## boelens (Jul 17, 2016)

I keep scrub pythons, and have never purchased one from a shop, was speaking to one shop recently and they sent me a picture saying got this male for sale unknown locality £450, I knew straight away what locality it was and said locality your looking at £250-£300 from a breeder, so some shops haven’t actually got a clue when it comes to big snakes, but having worked in a reptile shop myself, I know that most people who want a big snake don’t normally go to shops they go to the breeder direct, also it takes a lot of space for big snakes to house them properly and some shops can’t accommodate that


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## burmman (Oct 30, 2008)

boelens said:


> I keep scrub pythons, and have never purchased one from a shop, was speaking to one shop recently and they sent me a picture saying got this male for sale unknown locality £450, I knew straight away what locality it was and said locality your looking at £250-£300 from a breeder, so some shops haven’t actually got a clue when it comes to big snakes, but having worked in a reptile shop myself, I know that most people who want a big snake don’t normally go to shops they go to the breeder direct, also it takes a lot of space for big snakes to house them properly and some shops can’t accommodate that


Wasn't millennium reptiles by chance was it?


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

boelens said:


> I keep scrub pythons, and have never purchased one from a shop, was speaking to one shop recently and they sent me a picture saying got this male for sale unknown locality £450, I knew straight away what locality it was and said locality your looking at £250-£300 from a breeder, so some shops haven’t actually got a clue when it comes to big snakes, but having worked in a reptile shop myself, I know that most people who want a big snake don’t normally go to shops they go to the breeder direct, also it takes a lot of space for big snakes to house them properly and some shops can’t accommodate that


I agree as this is the sort of thing that goes on as shops will always overprice in the hope they sell to a newbie passer buyer. Most of the time they get lucky & sell it for a high, but I bet they will be sitting on that animal for a long time before it sells.


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## boelens (Jul 17, 2016)

burmman said:


> Wasn't millennium reptiles by chance was it?


No it wasn’t them


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

Personally, I think it is a good thing that shops do not sell large Boids.

I think it is rather crass to say that shops over price - of course they charge more than a breeder who most likely has a 'normal' job and produces babies as a sideline. The shop has to pay rent, electric, tax etc etc etc all before taking a wage so yes of course it is not a level playing field - the private breeder is not relying on making sales to pay the mortgage or provide for a family.


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

Central Scotland Reptiles said:


> Personally, I think it is a good thing that shops do not sell large Boids.
> 
> I think it is rather crass to say that shops over price - of course they charge more than a breeder who most likely has a 'normal' job and produces babies as a sideline. The shop has to pay rent, electric, tax etc etc etc all before taking a wage so yes of course it is not a level playing field - the private breeder is not relying on making sales to pay the mortgage or provide for a family.


This is what I said in my post….. understandably as shops have overheads


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## Central Scotland Reptiles (Nov 23, 2008)

I am just trying to point out there is no such thing as under priced, correct price or over price as the price quoted will be different depending on where you are in the hobby.

An animal is offered for £100 by breeder a and £120 by breeder b - is one underpriced and the other overpriced? Is one better than the other? What if a shop was to sell at £150 one could say this is 'overpriced' but as you have mentioned, with this comes the additional responsibility of running a business and aftersales advice that may not come along with breeder a or b so how much is this 'worth' to someone?

To me, the playing field is so uneven it is a wonder why anyone would go into this line of work as a business.



retic666 said:


> This is what I said in my post….. understandably as shops have overheads


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Problem with shops is that a lot of customers are Impuls buyers and with the lack of knowledge, or sellers rather / also refusal to share said knowledge, those babies will sell no problem and the owners eventually looking to rehome without luck and potentially just set them free or are being kept in the worst conditions.

And when I say ‘refusal to share’ is because I knew a colleague that worked previously in a reptile shop and I always visited him. He was actually instructed by his boss to essentially lie and only ever tell the customer that the minimum requirements are the largest vivariums they hold in stock. In his case it was 4ft max.

So they did sell Boas, Retics and even Burms with a 4ft ‘starter kit’ that apparently lasted well into adulthood. Thankfully shop has since closed. 

So yea I find it good news.


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## retic666 (Jan 18, 2021)

Jibbajabba said:


> Problem with shops is that a lot of customers are Impuls buyers and with the lack of knowledge, or sellers rather / also refusal to share said knowledge, those babies will sell no problem and the owners eventually looking to rehome without luck and potentially just set them free or are being kept in the worst conditions.
> 
> And when I say ‘refusal to share’ is because I knew a colleague that worked previously in a reptile shop and I always visited him. He was actually instructed by his boss to essentially lie and only ever tell the customer that the minimum requirements are the largest vivariums they hold in stock. In his case it was 4ft max.
> 
> ...


Speaking of small vivs..... Don't you need a bigger viv for your Boa??? 😅😂🤣


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Nah, she’s alright lol.


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Jibbajabba said:


> Nah, she’s alright lol.


Based on the door frame exercises, is she not claiming the whole room? not just the big custom viv 😉


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## liam peel (Sep 26, 2011)

Working at a pet shop years ago I seen stuff like this happen all the time.

Customer comes in wants a bearded dragon to keep with 3 others all in the same tank, explain to them its unsafe they all need their own tank "well my mams cousins friend ex coworker had them all live together blah blah blah" refuse the sale they're going to go to a different shop where no questions asked they get a bearded dragon. 

I do think there needs to be some form of questioning before making a sale now ofxourse we all know those people who own 3 burns/retics or other large animal that could go in purchase a large anaconda and be fully aware of everything right away no need for any questions to be asked. That being said there are also some people who have kept aninals wrong their entire life (bearded dragon example above). 

Something I think is beneficial is actually having an adult on display just to show how large these aninals can be, again seen a few times having a large burm on display "oh no I hope mine doesn't get that big" you've literally purchased that snakes child so yeah, probably will.

There are definitely some sellers out there who do checks and I agree more needs to be done to ensure that its going in the right enclosure, correct lighting/heating (take away the argument of racks vs vivs) but I have noticed some rescues will not let the animal go to a rack system too. 

Information is everything you can educate the people as much as you want some people choose not to take that advice on board and whilst there is a much bigger argument for big snakes/lizards requiring more checks there is also a big debate for having people more informed for smaller aninals like corns, beardys and leos. We all know those people who simply got bored of the animal and whacked it on Facebook free to good home. Endless cycle for a lot of animals unfortunately.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

@liam peel 
I agree. A good pet shop will ask questions and also answer questions, just as anyone selling or rehoming animals should. They should also be prepared to refuse a sale.

When buying, I always ask for a minimum of 48hrs for a vet check on the animal, with the proviso that I can return the animal if the vet finds a health issue that they felt the seller should have known about. If a seller has refused this and yes, it's happened, then I walk away. 

I've rescued 2 corns, one from a family who's kids got bored of it and the other from a lady who took on one from a friend who could no longer keep it. Trouble is, the lady had no knowledge on keeping snakes, couldn't be bothered to research it and here comes the biggie - was scared of snakes! 

You're story about the beardies is food for thought - how many of which breed of reptiles can be safely housed together? Are there exceptions to the rule? Is there enough information regarding this out there?

One of our rescued corns and our original corn ( brought as a 8 week old and lived for 24yrs) met during handling and we noticed they were very intrigued by each other. Under tight control, we allowed them to get closer regularly and if we only had one out, it seemed to be searching for its friend. It got to the stage that, on putting them in their own vivs, they started to show signs of stress that only stopped when we let them get together again. In the end they shared a viv and we're always curled up together ( separated at feeding). The downside was when the rescue died and left his friend alone, but lots of TLC did the trick.


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## Malc (Oct 27, 2009)

I was talking to the owner of a local shop selling reptiles yesterday who has a nice dwarf retic for sale and said he had refused the sale to three people for various reasons, risking the reputation of the shop as people comment on social media. It's hard for a retailer, sell the snakes to anyone who has the money, knowing that they lack the experience of dealing with the species just because the purchaser insists and its a sale. Or ensure the snake goes to someone who knows what they are taking on, and that the snake will be cared for correctly, and thus lose the sale...and get negative reviews...


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Elly66 said:


> One of our rescued corns and our original corn ( brought as a 8 week old and lived for 24yrs) met during handling and we noticed they were very intrigued by each other. Under tight control, we allowed them to get closer regularly and if we only had one out, it seemed to be searching for its friend. It got to the stage that, on putting them in their own vivs, they started to show signs of stress that only stopped when we let them get together again. In the end they shared a viv and we're always curled up together ( separated at feeding). The downside was when the rescue died and left his friend alone, but lots of TLC did the trick.


I had something similar with two a couple of royals of all snakes. After (unsuccessful) breeding and subsequent splitting up again both showed stress, stopped eating and whatnot. I was puzzled for months until a friend just said "why don't you chuck em together" - and I was like 'fudge, what's the worst that could happen. And boom, both did a 180. I ended up getting a 4" wide viv and essentially copied their environments into one. So I had two hides on the hot, two one the cold, two shelves on either side with their basking lights, enough branches and they kept hanging out together in either hide on either side and even with two water baths they used just one together. And strangely - never had a successful pairing - they were just in the permanent 'friend zone' lol ... 

When I gave my collection up they were both 13 and 17yrs old (lived together for 8) ... Sometimes you just have to change no matter what the books or the internet or community says - you know your animals best.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Jibbajabba said:


> I had something similar with two a couple of royals of all snakes. After (unsuccessful) breeding and subsequent splitting up again both showed stress, stopped eating and whatnot. I was puzzled for months until a friend just said "why don't you chuck em together" - and I was like 'fudge, what's the worst that could happen. And boom, both did a 180. I ended up getting a 4" wide viv and essentially copied their environments into one. So I had two hides on the hot, two one the cold, two shelves on either side with their basking lights, enough branches and they kept hanging out together in either hide on either side and even with two water baths they used just one together. And strangely - never had a successful pairing - they were just in the permanent 'friend zone' lol ...
> 
> When I gave my collection up they were both 13 and 17yrs old (lived together for 8) ... Sometimes you just have to change no matter what the books or the internet or community says - you know your animals best.


Mine never paired either, yet we knew we had a male and female. I didn't want to breed them, so was lucky really. Nature is definitely not set in stone


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