# new beardie(s) keeper,hello and i little advice please



## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

hello all, 

would like to say that i am glad i have found this site. was directed here by a member of another site i am on. anyway,

the mrs has wanted some beardies for a long time now, i have never been a really big fan if i am conpletely honest, BUT i am now converted.

we was out on sunday getting some winter food for our koi, in the local fish farm they also sell beardies/gechos etc.

with christmas fast approaching, i was talking to the guy about getting some for the mrs for then, but after talking to him and the mrs falling for a couple that we on the other side of the shop, we ended up an hour later walking out with a complete set up.

pics below,(not the best pics, but you get the idea.)




























all of the items are reptileone make, listed below

3ft viv
3ft uv tune(10% uv)
lamp holder
100w lamp
couple of logs
basking stone
bowl
habistat
sand (not 100% what exactly)


so thats the set up, since being home they both seem very happy, and we have had them out every evening, they are very tame and love to sit on your chest and watch the tv.

got a few questions as i seem to be getting mixed views

1) a)what temp should the lamp be set at??(currently 84F)
b) how long should it be on each day (and what times)
c) how long should the uv lamp be on (and what times)

2) how much and what to feed (currently feeding about 15 large silent crickets every other day, once a week with vitamins. every day some veg brockley, apple, cress.) can you over feed them???

3) how can we tell what sex they are, have been told that they are a male and female but not 100% sure.

4) if they are both male or female will they be ok to live together

5) is it possible to put the basking lamp in the viv?? at the moment it is on and off every couple of minutes and i feel that if it was closer to the stone it would regulate the temp better ( is there a minimum gap it can be from the rock)


sorry for all the questions, but like i say we seem to be get very mixed answers on each of the above. i am sure i may have more questions as time goes on.

thanks in advance.

stuart


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

1. The temperature wants to be 110-115*F for babies, or 100-105*F for adults. It wants to be on for 12 hours a day and then off at night (unless your house drops below 60*F at night at which point you can use a thermostatted heat mat on the side of the vivarium). UV wants to be on again 12 hours a day.

2. You want to feed them as much as they will eat in 15-20 minutes, 2-3 times a day. Supplements should be pure calcium 5 feeds out 7 and Nutrobal (multivitamins) the remaining 2 feeds.

3. You can tell by their undersides. http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/sexing/

4. No, they will not be okay to live together as the male will stress the female by breeding with her constantly, and it may potentially kill her if left too long. They are best being separated, as soon as possible. She also looks too young to breed which can be extremely dangerous.
2 males will also fight and should be separated.
2 females are the best bet, though there is absolutely no guarantee they will get on and so as a precaution are best kept alone - all beardies are solitary animals in the wild.

5. Not sure about the basking lamp.

And as a side note, a 3ft vivarium will not hold 2 bearded dragons for life. A 4ft is the minimum for just one. I would advise you get 2, 4ft vivariums and separate them before there is any breeding or dominance issues.


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## bw89 (Jan 11, 2010)

hi stu

your beardies are very cute,

Your set up sound good, but the temps sound a little low, see below.

your questions.
1. the basking temperature should be around 100-110 degrees farenheit, the cool end about 80.
b and c. The light should be on around 10 hours in the winter and about 14 hours in the summer. Mine are plugged into a cheap timer that you can get from b and q. times should be about 8 am to 6 pm in winter and 6 am to 8 pm in summer.
2. your diet sounds good, if they eat it really quick give them a bit more, but you wouldnt overfeed them on that amount.
3.males usually have a darker beard, and head bobs, females usually armwave, but a better way to tell is to look at the underside, by the vent. The male will have two bumps near the vent, these are his reproductive organs:blush:
4. A lot of people, myself included, like to get a ratio of at least 2 female to one male, as the males can be quite vicious when mating and will over mate with a single female. I find that i still have to keep my male seperate from my 2 females. This doesnt matter when they are so young but may be something to look into. Females can live together without any problems.
5. You can have the basking lamp in the viv, it looks like you will need to to raise temps, too close is when the dragons can climb on it, so make sure they cant.

Hope this helps and feel free to ask any more q's you have
:2thumb:


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

hello and thanks for the fast responses.

couple more questions from your answers.

i have now up'd the temp, BUT the stat i have only goes up to 92F so looks like i need a new one of them

could the fact that the temp being too low be the reason they are sitting on each other or is there a chance they may be breeding, i am not sure of there exact age, but am told they are the same age. i am going to try and sex them both from the link above. also can you tell how old they are??

with regards to the size of the tank, looks like i have been miss lead again, the long term plan was to build to fit a large viv under the stairs once we have finished decorating (think this may have to sooner rather than later) 

is there any how 2 type details on how to build your own viv's or is this not advisable??

if not i am on the look out for an extra set up ALREADY

thanks for the advice so far, now the mrs is really worried that they may damage each other


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

All you need to do is keep a close eye on them - the lying on each other would not be mating behaviour as that involves biting  It may be however they are competing for the basking spot as it's a bit cool - they want the warmest spot for themselves.
They should be alright for a while but I wouldn't leave it too long, just in case they do start to mate or fight.
As for building vivs, apparently it's fun and easy, and if you make your way over to the 'Habitat' section of this forum, there are plenty of viv building tips! Though I would advise a 4 x 2 x 2ft vivarium for each dragon, in preparation for their adult size. They may go off eating for a while after being moved but don't be alarmed - beardies are notorious for sulking at change and will regain their appetites quickly!

As for age... I'd say no more than a year old... but that's a guess, sorry.
And you can always stack the 2 vivs on top of one another under the stairs!  By all means they can come out together for interaction/playtime providing they get on, but ideally they should live on their own. Sorry to rain on things but there aren't a lot of instances where co-habitation has been beneficial to beardies


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

at the end of the day the animals come first so no raining here

i have increased the temp and the lamp has not gone off since. should i keep it on tonight and then turn off tomorrow night onwards, or will turning it off tonight be ok??

i will take a look in the habitat section and see what i can work out. i am pretty handy with building things, at the end of the day its a box with a glass front, so not a major amount to go wrong (he says)


with regards to stacking, what do you do about ventilation???? the guy in the shop said not to cover the top of the viv as it needs ventilation, the whole of the top is mesh, but then again, the guy in the shop does not seem to be too clued up


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

You can build wooden vivariums with glass doors and vents in the sides :2thumb: That seems to be the preferred method of housing beardies as apparently glass doesn't hold heat as well as wood. I can't bring anything to the table with regards to proper housing materials, though... Habitat section would be best 

And turning it off tonight will not be a problem, as long as they can get nice and toasty once the temperatures come back on in the morning  Remember, in the wild they don't get sunlight and warmth 24-7; when the sun goes down, things, including them, cool down!


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

thanks again.

well looks like we have 2 MALES, which i am asuming is the worst it could be (just my luck)


so looks like my plans for the weekend have gone up in smoke.  i dont want to rush into it, but like i say the beardies come first.

can anyone recommend anywhere near romford to go for some good advice??? and cheap lamps lights etc.

i cant afford another £300 for another set up


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

EBay is a life-saver at times like this, or Amazon, or even the classifieds on here.

If you're not entirely sure on sexes you could post pictures of their undersides (the way the instructions advise you to do so) for us to peruse, there are some very experienced keepers on here!


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

Ophexis said:


> EBay is a life-saver at times like this, or Amazon, or even the classifieds on here.
> 
> If you're not entirely sure on sexes you could post pictures of their undersides (the way the instructions advise you to do so) for us to peruse, there are some very experienced keepers on here!



i will do tomorrow, i am off to bed now as got to be up at 4.30:blush::blush:

one is most defiantly a male, the other i am unsure of, but the mrs reckons its a male also


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Goodnight to you then, and good luck! : victory:


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## tinksie (Oct 26, 2010)

Hey

Have a good old search on ebay for stats etc, i get loads of decent stuff there. 

U asked about building a viv. My brother in law build one for his corn snake and it is fine. He looked up all the do's and dont's on line, such as using the right stuff to seal it!!!

Also For ours we have a dimming themostat, so that there is always a warm basking spot but the light dims and brightens to regulate the temperature. This may not be the same for you with your two, but when the temp drops in my beardies tank and needs to be a lil warmer he thermo regulates (lays on his belly and stretches up with his mouth open) but yours might not do this, mine may just be an odd ball :lol2:

Hope you sort all out soon and enjoy the lil fellas as they really are the BEST pets ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dan P (Aug 9, 2010)

If you need another setup look at this:
COMPLETE BEARDED DRAGON / LIZARD SETUP KIT 4' VIV+MORE! on eBay (end time 11-Nov-10 21:32:29 GMT)
I got one and it has literally everything that you need. ast delivery too


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

mornign update,

got up this morning and checked them out, at first my heart stopped, neither of them seemd to breathing, one was on the rock and one behind it, both with there eyes closed, motionless. the temp in the tank was about 68F, i turned the uv and heat back on.

the mrs has just rang me and asked if thwey were ok when i left, as she had fed them a minute ago and neither of them seemed interested and both still seemed slow, the crickets were climbing over them and they were just sitting around.

is this right???????????

as you can read above, last night was the first time since we got them on sunday that we have turned the lights off over night. 

the mrs and i are rather worried at the moment, so any help would be appreciated.

thanks


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## Dan P (Aug 9, 2010)

Do you know what temp that your room get's too overnight? And also i would recomend that you put your lights on a timer switch so that they come on an hour or two before you feed them in the morning ald also that they turn off a few hours after the evening feed making sure that they are on for about 12-14 hours a day


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## Dan P (Aug 9, 2010)

Mine comes on at about 6:30 then i feed him near 8 then i feed again at around 6pm and the lights go off at 9:30


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

What temperature has it got to now? Basking spot, hot end and cool end.
Most beardies won't eat for a couple of hours until they've got up to temperature as it kick starts their digestion.

And they may not be eating as they are still settling in, it can take them a week or two to settle into the new surroundings.


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

hello amd thanks again

the room temp will not drop much lower than the stat temp on the central heating, (this is 21C) our heating is on all night long. the stat is just outside the front room where they are. 

i turned the lights on at 5.20 just before i left for work, the mrs fed them at about 9.30,

she has just text me and they have eaten them all now, but still seem a bit lathergic (i think thats the word)

may just be me being new to all this, but i really thought they were dead this morning, is it normal for them to be like this when asleep???


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## janeann10uk (May 27, 2009)

Congrats on your new arrivals :2thumb:
Have you had their poop checked yet ? Every animal i own has had a fecal check by a rep vet. When i first got my 2 beardies, their poop check confirmed worms and parasites. This explained why they werent so lively. Easily treated and stops more problems in the future : victory: now they are checked twice a year


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## janeann10uk (May 27, 2009)

Ooh, just another thing - in your pic , they look really cute like theyre cuddling Not the case. This is actually a sign of dominant behaviour so keep a watch on the littl'uns as they can do each other harm if they start to fight plus it could mean one is getting more food than the other


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

Thank you Jane. 

Yes it does look like they are both males. I am going to pick up another viv on sat from another member and we are going to separate them next week once I get all the other bits for the viv. We was told they were male and female along with a number of other bad things when we purchased them. 

I am going to try and get to another reptile shop I know of a couple around here so hopefully get over the weekend and I will ask them about testing the waste

Just need to get the other bits and then maybe can relax once they are apart

Fingers crossed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

*stu* said:


> hello all,
> 
> would like to say that i am glad i have found this site. was directed here by a member of another site i am on. anyway,
> 
> ...


 
i would suggest you seperate them ASAP, the reason they sit on top of each other is to dominate and you dont want them to begin to fight, occasionaly you might be lucky and get a pair of females that can tolerate each other, however they dont need nor appreciate company. seperate tham and they will be much happier. If you have a male and female the male will keep mating and cause stress to the female. eitherway youll need to seperate them

Good look


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## diktar (Sep 19, 2010)

*Some Info....*

Guys Im reading a lot and seem to be coming across the word "Holdback"..could someone please explain what exactly this means please..Im thinking a quality B/D but may be wrong..

Thanks :2thumb:


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## jamess& Alice the beardie (Nov 14, 2010)

yeah the advice that you have been given sounds about right but like others have said dont rush into anything like seperating them stragiht away just give them a while and see how they are getting on but eventually you will need to upgrade to a bigger viv or give them a viv each! 
but must say it they are soooooooo cute


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## jamess& Alice the beardie (Nov 14, 2010)

ohh yes by the way if your looking for a cheap set up i notcied you live in cannock thats were my nan is from and there is this really great place called britannia reptiles where you can get a fantastic setup 3 ft viv and everything for £218 so take a look round there they also offer some great care sheets!


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Once again we see a newbie having been sold 1 viv and 2 baby bearded dragons! This is completely irresponsible of the pet shop to knowingly sell 2 dragons with 1 viv and quickly lands the new owner with the task of shelling out on an additional viv or risking the well being of their pets! Is it just greed on the part of the pet shop or is it they do not have the correct knowledge in the animals they are selling???
Yes the customer may get lucky and wind up with 2 females (even with 2 females harmony isn't a cert) and being most probably brother and sister if male and female would be very bad if they bred!
These places should be named and shamed!!! Sorry about the rant but this kind of thing really p***es me off!:cussing::cussing:


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## jamess& Alice the beardie (Nov 14, 2010)

yeah i know right i have a mate and he was sold two adult beardies and a 3ft viv and i was shocked!!!!


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Stu,

Does the viv that you have been sold have any capability to maintain a nightime temperature without the basking bulb being on. Your basking bulb should be run 12-13hour aday in conjunction with your uvb tube and also should not be used as your primary heat source. It should remain on all the time (during the day)and not be run via a thermostat which will make it turn on and off all the time!
My advice would be to purchase a ceramic heater and ceramic bulb holder and mount in the viv in the ceiling (also consider getting a ceramic bulb guard). Run this ceramic heater via your habistat thermostat and run your basking bulb via a dimmer!
Without the basking light on set the thermostat (probe near the warm end) to give a temperature of around 85-88f (o.k for nightime temperatures) then turn on your basking bulb and adjust up until you are getting 100f at the warm end!
Run your basking bullb and uvb via a plug in timer, eg on 7.00am off 8.00pm!


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

In fact I believe they should be seperated and it should be a rushed decision rather than what alice.... says

Britannia pine are great and will give some good advice about set ups and care. 

With regard to holdback- it means the breeder saw potential for breeding and was holding the beardie back to see how it turned out. so generally they are more colourful than others in the same clutch


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

Ambersnake said:


> Stu,
> 
> Does the viv that you have been sold have any capability to maintain a nightime temperature without the basking bulb being on. Your basking bulb should be run 12-13hour aday in conjunction with your uvb tube and also should not be used as your primary heat source. It should remain on all the time (during the day)and not be run via a thermostat which will make it turn on and off all the time!
> My advice would be to purchase a ceramic heater and ceramic bulb holder and mount in the viv in the ceiling (also consider getting a ceramic bulb guard). Run this ceramic heater via your habistat thermostat and run your basking bulb via a dimmer!
> ...


the viv setup we was sold was struggling to get the day time temps, we have now upgraded to two 4X2X2 vis.



Ambersnake said:


> Once again we see a newbie having been sold 1 viv and 2 baby bearded dragons! This is completely irresponsible of the pet shop to knowingly sell 2 dragons with 1 viv and quickly lands the new owner with the task of shelling out on an additional viv or risking the well being of their pets! Is it just greed on the part of the pet shop or is it they do not have the correct knowledge in the animals they are selling???
> Yes the customer may get lucky and wind up with 2 females (even with 2 females harmony isn't a cert) and being most probably brother and sister if male and female would be very bad if they bred!
> These places should be named and shamed!!! Sorry about the rant but this kind of thing really p***es me off!:cussing::cussing:


 i went back to the shop and explained that i was not happy, i had a discussion with consumer direct and the bottom line was they either GAVE me another setup or gave me a full refund. we got a full refund and rehomed the beardies in aseperate 4X2X2 viv each, they are now happy as larry.


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## *stu* (Oct 27, 2010)

this thread was bumped by a memeber above with a question aout holdback, not to sure if anyone has answered it. 

as above i have now seperated them and all is good.

stu


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## loulou87 (Sep 10, 2010)

Stu, 

You are one of the few on here who asks for advice and actually listens!
Glad you have two happy beardies!!


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## Ambersnake (Jun 6, 2010)

Bravo Stu,

Sorry your introduction to the reptile world has been a financial bombshell! Hats off to you for responding so quickly and getting the correct set-ups that your beardies require- Booo to the cretins that took the money off you and let you walk out of their shop with too many dragons for an inappropriate set up with a lack of decent advice!
After you have got over the stress and financial outlay you and your family will get a huge amount of pleasure from your dragons for many years- just hope they know how lucky they have been!!!!

Once again Koi carp sellers should stick to what they know best!


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