# Hand Rearing Gambian Pouched Rats



## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Last week Jambo & Kwanzi had a massive litter of 8 pouchie pups but sadly Kwanzi did not appear to have any milk - it may be that the litter was premature due to the size of it. The pups were born on midday on Wednesday and by Thursday evening it was clear the surviving pups weren't fed.

So I took the remaining three pups for hand feeding in the hopes another Gambian would deliver in time to foster these tiny babies. 

I have been hand feeding every 2 hrs since Thursday evening and so far so good although their chance of survival is pretty low ( 
Here are some videos & a pic of the pups at 2 day old.









*YouTube - 2 day old Gambian Pouched Rats*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7WF1uJdZVw&feature=player_embedded

*and more video at 4 day old* 

YouTube - 4 day old Gambian Pouched Rats i

YouTube - 4 day old Gambian Pouched Rats ii


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## LiamAndKec (Jan 23, 2009)

Aww man, I hope they pull through.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Good luck!! You're gonna need it! How big are they compared to a fancy rat pinky?


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I think I'll need more than just luck 

There's just so much that could go wrong but as long as they have a will to live and can swallow, I'll keep feeding them.

What I am really hoping for is that one of the other Gambians will drop and take over for me. A foster mum is their best chance.

They don't compare to a fancy rat (thankfully). They are actually the size of a baby rabbit.

On a positive though, theyve really amazed me getting this far and I am surprised how tough they are!!! 

I am getting attached to my little alien embryos :flrt:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

It would definitely be best if another gambian gave birth!! I was just trying to think of a substitute foster Mom... But if they are THAT much bigger than fancy rat bubs, than that's a no *lol*


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Last feed went really well yay

This is Zola - on the right. She looks fit to burst and i am just praying she gives birth asap and accepts these three :?

Might give her curry and castor oil for supper :lol2:








http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/lawsonslionheads/2010_02210010.jpg


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Don't forget the pineapples!! *lol* Apparently they're good for enducing labor, as well


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

You certainly have your hands full and it sounds like you are doing a great job with them. Fingers crossed that the other girl has a smaller litter and will foster these babies for you. If not I think they have a good chance of surviving if you have managed to get them this far:no1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I hope you can get them fostered onto one of your girls once they produce, but you've done amazingly well to get them this far!! :notworthy:

They are bigger than I expected them to be I have to say, and as you've said there's a lot that can go wrong at this stage - dehydration I've found to be one of the most likely, so don't forget to watch for that. That was where I made my first mistake when handrearing a kitten.

Hoping they continue to thrive.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

aww thanks Shell thats good to hear :2thumb:

I've never done this before so its really nerve wracking and they are such precious little lives.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

feorag said:


> I hope you can get them fostered onto one of your girls once they produce, but you've done amazingly well to get them this far!! :notworthy:
> 
> They are bigger than I expected them to be I have to say, and as you've said there's a lot that can go wrong at this stage - dehydration I've found to be one of the most likely, so don't forget to watch for that. That was where I made my first mistake when handrearing a kitten.
> 
> Hoping they continue to thrive.


 
Thankyou : victory:

I am worried about dehydration and keep wondering whether to give a small amount of water aswell as the milk.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:lol2: We cross posted!

It's never easy doing this, especially in your case when it's from birth, but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about, so you've got to go for it, haven't you?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I wouldn't give it unless you feel that they might be dehydrated. I know it's difficult with such a small critter, but I would just keep nipping the skin at the scruff of the neck and checking whether it springs back or not. If you see signs of 'tenting' then you need to give fluid only, in which case I've give a couple of drops in between the milk, not with the milk.

You can make your own rehydration fluid using boiled water, salt and sugar, I've got the 'recipe' upstairs on my big computer if you want the quantities.

Also if you aren't already doing it, I would definitely recommend making a mixture of milk, ABIDEC baby vitamins and pro-biotic yoghurt, to help their gut flora.

that was the mix I used (with full cream goats milk) when I handreared the baby squirrels, but when I was handrearing the stoat, St Tiggywinkles' head fosterer told me to add double cream to that mix too, to make it richer.

Edit: I made a full bottle of the mix every morning and then threw what was left out the next morning and made a fresh batch - much easier!


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

:notworthy: thankyou so much

probiotic is a great idea because I don't think the poor things even got any colostrum. There was nothing.

Their immunity must be really poor.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

If I lived nearer I would give you a hand so you could get some sleep as I find that is the hardest part.
I think handrearing has a higher success rate when you have the patience and will to get them to live and you certainly have that.
Bloat is the worst killer and when Im doing kittens or puppys I give them a few drops of Infacol at each feed which makes them burp, but Im not sure if you could use this with GPR.
It sounds like they are doing well under your care, I have everything crossed for you.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I handreared a litter of kittens from birth when their mum rejected them after a c-section. We bought some colostrum from a goat farm and froze it into useable sized chunks. All the kittens thrived and were no weaker than other litters by the mum


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

The problem with colostrum is the fact that (certainly with cats, don't know about other breeds :blush, but there is a limited amount of time that they can actually digest it. 

As I understand it, it's kinda got nothing to do with how long the mother produces colostrum, but that there is a limited window of time that the kitten can actually digest it and therefore benefit from the antibodies and if my memory serves me right, it's something like a day (24 hours)!! After that the kitten cannot digest the colostrum so feeding it will not make a difference.

Wish i could remember where I read it, but it's so long ago since I started breeding and did all my research, but I'm certain that I did. It's only my recent memory that is failing nowadays! :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> The problem with colostrum is the fact that (certainly with cats, don't know about other breeds :blush, but there is a limited amount of time that they can actually digest it.
> 
> As I understand it, it's kinda got nothing to do with how long the mother produces colostrum, but that there is a limited window of time that the kitten can actually digest it and therefore benefit from the antibodies and if my memory serves me right, it's something like a day (24 hours)!! After that the kitten cannot digest the colostrum so feeding it will not make a difference.
> 
> Wish i could remember where I read it, but it's so long ago since I started breeding and did all my research, but I'm certain that I did. It's only my recent memory that is failing nowadays! :lol2:


 
I believe it is 24 hours Eileen but newer research on colostrum has found that it contains other benefits when given at an older age. This of course isnt exotic mammals I am talking about as I know nothing about GPR


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:lol2: Me neither! Just know about my cats because that's what I needed to know I guess!


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I guess if Zola delivers and can foster them successfully they will get Gambian colostrum which would be a bonus to them :2thumb:

Just got to hope I can sustain them that long.

It is going to be soul destroying if they don't make it.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

And don't Shell and I know it!

It's a wonderful feeling when you're successful and worth all the sleepless nights and worry, but when you lose them it is, indeed, soul destroying.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

The middle pup is catching up with the big strong one but I think I am losing the weakest. I would be surprised if she is still with us by morning.

Come on Zola!!!! (


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Aw! Fingers crossed for you, but to be honest, at that size and that young, you'd be a miracle worker if you could successfully rear all three, so I would (without wishing to sound harsh - just realistic) expect to have a casualty or two out of the three.

Do you mind if I ask what weight they are - I'm really curious about that! :blush:


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Sure.

They are 11,11 & 13 grammes.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

OMG! Poor little things! I thought my squirrels at 27g were small!

It's hard to judge because the size comparison of hands can vary hugely.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

I know (

They are so teeny - I just wish they'd put some weight on and develop faster. I don't know how long it will take something so small to gain a gramme but so far they are the same weight as when I pulled them if my scales are correct. I am pretty certain they were premature and have some catching up to do as they look way behind a parent raised 4 day old pup.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Ive had a go at rearing premature kittens but wasnt successfu Im afraid, I really feel for you as it takes so much effort to handrear baby animals and its soul destroying if they dont make it
I really hope these babies can pull through but dont beat yourself up if they dont as without you they would never have got this far
Fingers crossed your other girl gives birth very shortly


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Had a crisis last thing last night. Went to do the last feed before I took the pups up to bed and I had lost the weak pup. This was incredibly sad but expected. however the large strong pup who I had most faith in was also in trouble. She had overheated and was dying so I did everything superhumanly possible to keep her sustained and she is still with us although a shadow of what she was before. Chilled pups I can warm up but overheating I can't deal with. I just didn't know what to do and if I could repair whatever damage was done internally. The pup is taking minimal milk but I am still trying. The middle pup has weakened also but is still feeding.

I have put the two in an incubater to see if a constant temperature will be enough to keep them alive and functioning/digesting but it is even harder work and takes even longer to get enough milk into them now. 

I was in bits last night so I have got the emotional bit out the way and its just full steam ahead now to keep some life breathing into the remaining babies.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> Had a crisis last thing last night. Went to do the last feed before I took the pups up to bed and I had lost the weak pup. This was incredibly sad but expected. however the large strong pup who I had most faith in was also in trouble. She had overheated and was dying so I did everything superhumanly possible to keep her sustained and she is still with us although a shadow of what she was before. Chilled pups I can warm up but overheating I can't deal with. I just didn't know what to do and if I could repair whatever damage was done internally. The pup is taking minimal milk but I am still trying. The middle pup has weakened also but is still feeding.
> 
> I have put the two in an incubater to see if a constant temperature will be enough to keep them alive and functioning/digesting but it is even harder work and takes even longer to get enough milk into them now.
> 
> I was in bits last night so I have got the emotional bit out the way and its just full steam ahead now to keep some life breathing into the remaining babies.


 
What a nightmare for you. It is so gut wrenching when you lose the battle but all you can do is soldier on. I had a kitten overheat once and held it out the window to cool it down but in comparison to an exotic mammal domestic kittens are easy.
All you can do is what you are already doing, sometimes things just arent meant to be. It is so much easier to rear something that is a normal healthy baby to start with than premature or sick as this makes it twice as hard.
Big Hugs for you as you bloody well deserve some. x


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Thankyou Shell. They've thankfully shown some signs of improvement at the last feed. Here they are in their little intensive care unit (


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## Elina (Jul 22, 2009)

I had not seen this tread. 

Pouchie you are doing a smashing job to get them this far. I am very sorry for the loss of the tiny one but I suppose some things are not meant to be.

I wish you the very best of luck with the remaining two pups, they are lucky to have you.

*Hugs*
-
Elina


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> Thankyou Shell. They've thankfully shown some signs of improvement at the last feed. Here they are in their little intensive care unit (
> 
> image
> 
> ...


 
Aww bless them:flrt: It may sound daft but have you tried giving them a small teddy to cuddle in to, my handreared puppies and kittens really love to snuggle into a foster mum so I dont see why your two babies wouldnt be the same
Im glad they are showing signs of improvement, fingers crossed they continue to be fighters x


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm just newly on line since this morning and have just read your post. 

So sorry to hear you lost the wee one, but glad that the other 2 are hanging in there. I've never had to deal with an overheating baby, so like you would have been worried about what was the right thing to do.

Fingers cross with the two that are left - don't suppose the other mum has kittened yet???


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks Elina & Eileen - sadly the potential foster mum still hasn't delivered. It is hard to know exactly when they are due. Would have thought another 2 days max but I could be wrong (





Shell195 said:


> Aww bless them:flrt: It may sound daft but have you tried giving them a small teddy to cuddle in to, my handreared puppies and kittens really love to snuggle into a foster mum so I dont see why your two babies wouldnt be the same


:2thumb: :flrt:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Last year we had a single duckling and she wasn't thriving at all, so we got a little teddy bear and put it in with it, and it snuggled up to it and was great after that! I wouldnt' have thought it would make a difference to a duckling, but it sure did.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Pouchie said:


> Thanks Elina & Eileen - sadly the potential foster mum still hasn't delivered. It is hard to know exactly when they are due. Would have thought another 2 days max but I could be wrong (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Bless them, Im glad they like their snugglemum:flrt:

They actually look very plump on that photo :no1: Do you think they would now accept a real foster mum? I find that once a few days have passed my foster babies actually refuse to feed off a real animal as they are that bonded with whatever their human mum feeds them with


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

yes they were just fed before that pic. They are nice & plump :no1:

I have my doubts about whether the foster will work and it will be a wrench to hand them over to Zola.

I will have to play it by ear and see how well it goes. First i'd need to be sure Zola hadn't noticed they aren't hers and accepts them then second I'd have to hope their instinct to nurse is still there because they haven't ever nursed/ suckled. I am basically feeding them drip by painstaking drip which they take from their lips so as not to risk aspiration or choking. I have felt they are far too tiny to try to get them to suckle from a teat safely.

Got some tough decisions to make if they are still here when Zola delivers.


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

6 days old today :2thumb:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Wow!!!!!! That is excellent! :2thumb:

I bet you wouldn't have given them a 10% chance the day they were born that you would get them this far. I so hope they continue to thrive for you!!

You must be totally cream crackered by now!


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## Nimble (Feb 22, 2010)

Keep it up, you are doing an absolutely fantastic job! 
Try and get some time for you though, you must be absolutely exhausted... Hope there's someone helping.

All the best, keep us posted!!!

xx:2thumb:xx


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You're doing great, Pouchy!! I hope they continue to thrive!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Well done:no1: I hope they continue to thrive for you:2thumb:


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Another casualty (

Now down to one last little fighter. Here she is.. one week old hand raised Gambian pup.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Shes gorgeous:flrt: Im so sorry you lost the other 2 babies but I would imagine they are very hard to rear so congratulate yourself that you have got this far:no1: Fingers crossed that this little one is a fighter and can pull through


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Just keep trying with this one... {{{hugs}}} You are doing brilliantly and have gotten much further than most would have.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I agree - you're doing a wonderful job - we're all rooting for the little one"=!!


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## jeni-arthurmoe (Sep 22, 2008)

your doing fantastic!!! good luck with the little one =] xx


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm frightened to ask how the little one is this morning??


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## kodakira (Jul 11, 2008)

I know of not much help but my wife Debra was talking to Pouchie late last night and at that time the pup was feeding well and the pup appeared OK. Obviously a long way to go yet.

Neil


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

The last pup is lost (

She was doing well but suddenly inbetween feeds she just faded and got really weak. She died in my hand and couldn't be resuscitated.

Zola still hasn't given birth despite looking like a weeble wobble

I wish these pups had of been given a chance with a foster mum but I just could not keep them going long enough.

Wish there was a happy ending


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Oh dear - I'm so sorry to hear that :grouphug:

It really is a soul destroying task when you lose, but all you can do is give it your best shot and you did!! A lot of people wouldn't have bothered.

I hope all goes well when Zola finally kittens! 

Such a shame.


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## x Sarah x (Nov 16, 2007)

I am sorry to hear that, you were doing a great job, animal mummies make it look so easy don't they!

You probably have so many other offers, but i'd like you to know, if anything like this happens again (touch wood it doesn't) i nearly always have a fancy rat here with babies should you need a surrogate.

RIP little ratties x


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

You did all you could for them, though, Pouchie.... I know it's not much consolation, but it just wasn't meant to be. {{{hugs}}}


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

That is so sad  
You did your best but sadly they wernt meant to be. It really can be soul destroying rearing baby animals as it takes so much effort but you tried and thats what counts.

(((Big Hugs)))


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## Pouchie (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks everyone (

Its a lot easier with all the support and people rooting for the little things really helps when you need a bit of positivity. So thanks for all your support and kind words :grouphug:


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## jeni-arthurmoe (Sep 22, 2008)

aww RIP little ones ... =] well done with all the effort though!!

good luck with mum


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## Stacey010884 (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm sorry to not have seen this thread before to offer my support. You did extremely well getting the last girl to a week of age. I had a glider reject two joeys and couldn't get either to feed.
I'm sorry that you lost them but well done for doing so well and good on you for giving them the best chance of life.
I hope Zola is much more successful with her litter. xx


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