# Is my tortoise big enough to be microchipped



## Herbie and Jurassicblue

Hello my horsefeild tortoise is two years old more or less and his plastron is about 8cm i searched up how big he needs to be and it said 10cm is this true


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## purplepixie

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Hello my horsefeild tortoise is two years old more or less and his plastron is about 8cm i searched up how big he needs to be and it said 10cm is this true



The DEFRA says endangered species should be microchipped as soon as they hatch. But most sensible keepers wait until they sell the hatchlings. Although nano chips are small so are the legs of hatchlings. You cannot sell endangered species without the chips. But Horsfields are as far as I know not on the endangered list yet. Age has nothing to do with when they are chipped but personally I would not chip any small tortoise unless there was a good reason to do so:0)


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## Herbie and Jurassicblue

Thanks for the help but legally all tortoise have to be microchipped for identification when transporting or selling some people say that their plastron has to be 10cm or bigger and no horsefeild tortoise are a bit far from endangered yet as they are such a popular choice for a lot of beginners so they have a large population mostly from being farmed but any getting off topic the only reason I know most of this is because I looked into it and I have a qualification in level 1 animal management and im doing level 2 animal management at the moment so I try to learn as much as possible to keep my little angel "happy" and healthy following the guidelines of the animal welfare act 2006


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## purplepixie

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Thanks for the help but legally all tortoise have to be microchipped for identification when transporting or selling some people say that their plastron has to be 10cm or bigger and no horsefeild tortoise are a bit far from endangered yet as they are such a popular choice for a lot of beginners so they have a large population mostly from being farmed but any getting off topic the only reason I know most of this is because I looked into it and I have a qualification in level 1 animal management and im doing level 2 animal management at the moment so I try to learn as much as possible to keep my little angel "happy" and healthy following the guidelines of the animal welfare act 2006



I dont think all tortoises have to be legally micro chipped, who checks on this? 
I have kept tortoises for over 45yrs and have had plenty rehomed to me without chips. I know if endangered species they have to, but no others. You can also give away endangered species without paperwork or chip, but you are not allowed to sell them without chips.
So how are you actually keeping your tortoise?
Is he/she winding down for hibernation?
What diet does he/she get?


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## SueBoyle

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Thanks for the help but legally all tortoise have to be microchipped for identification when transporting or selling some people say that their plastron has to be 10cm or bigger and no horsefeild tortoise are a bit far from endangered yet as they are such a popular choice for a lot of beginners so they have a large population mostly from being farmed but any getting off topic the only reason I know most of this is because I looked into it and I have a qualification in level 1 animal management and im doing level 2 animal management at the moment so I try to learn as much as possible to keep my little angel "happy" and healthy following the guidelines of the animal welfare act 2006


No, tortoises do not have to be chipped as a legal requirement, only if you are selling or breeding from them and as mentioned this does not apply to horsfields which are not yet on the vulnerable list. The popularity has nothing to do with whether they are endangered/vulnerable, but their state in the wild. Hopefully your animal management course has indicated that the horsfield should be in hibernation now, especially as being a burrowing species it’s not really possible to keep them indoors. If you do go ahead with microchipping for some reason I’d add that it’s pretty inhumane for little ones and best left until adult, given the size of the chip in comparison to the leg. I personally never chip my tortoises unless breeding from them and sell babies before the 10cm size to avoid the stress of chipping.


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## LiasisUK

Horsfields do no legally have to be microchipped as they are not a CITES species so do not require paperwork.

The only reason to chip one would be for your own use, as in if it is loose in the garden and escaped the owner can be verified from its chip. That is entirely optional and not a commonly done thing, but I have seen it.
In short no, you do not need to get a Horsfield chipped. There is no legal requirement to do so.


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## ian14

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> Thanks for the help but legally all tortoise have to be microchipped for identification when transporting or selling some people say that their plastron has to be 10cm or bigger and no horsefeild tortoise are a bit far from endangered yet as they are such a popular choice for a lot of beginners so they have a large population mostly from being farmed but any getting off topic the only reason I know most of this is because I looked into it and I have a qualification in level 1 animal management and im doing level 2 animal management at the moment so I try to learn as much as possible to keep my little angel "happy" and healthy following the guidelines of the animal welfare act 2006


No they don't.
Firstly, only CITES Annex A/Appendix 1 species need to be microchipped.
And even then, not in every case.
Microchipping is done to comply with the requirement for the animal to be uniquely marked so that the Article 10 Certificate that is issued can be proven to be for that specimen. An A10 is only needed if the animal is to be used for a commercial purpose, ie to be bought, sold, advertised for sale, bred from, or any other commercial purpose. 
So if you buy an Annex A species as a hatchling that is too small to be chipped, the A10 will state that it must be chipped when large enough. At one point, breeders would sell the tortoise with a chip ready to be implanted at the right size, with the chip number on the A10. However, if you are simplly buying the animal as a pet, you do not need to get it chipped. 
Why?
Because an A10 is not needed to simply own such an animal, only to use it for commercial use.
All of which is, however, immaterial as Horsefields do not need an A10. Also, the CITES requirements have nothing to do with the Animal Welfare Act.
That was clearly a well taught course you attended!!


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## Herbie and Jurassicblue

ian14 said:


> No they don't.
> Firstly, only CITES Annex A/Appendix 1 species need to be microchipped.
> And even then, not in every case.
> Microchipping is done to comply with the requirement for the animal to be uniquely marked so that the Article 10 Certificate that is issued can be proven to be for that specimen. An A10 is only needed if the animal is to be used for a commercial purpose, ie to be bought, sold, advertised for sale, bred from, or any other commercial purpose.
> So if you buy an Annex A species as a hatchling that is too small to be chipped, the A10 will state that it must be chipped when large enough. At one point, breeders would sell the tortoise with a chip ready to be implanted at the right size, with the chip number on the A10. However, if you are simplly buying the animal as a pet, you do not need to get it chipped.
> Why?
> Because an A10 is not needed to simply own such an animal, only to use it for commercial use.
> All of which is, however, immaterial as Horsefields do not need an A10. Also, the CITES requirements have nothing to do with the Animal Welfare Act.
> That was clearly a well taught course you attended!!


I never said that all I said was I follow the guide lines of the animal welfare act i never said CITES was part of it I know its a completely separate part of the animal industry because cites is for the trade of exotic and endangered animals and plants only while the animal welfare act only complies to vertabrate animals. that act only states how u should treat those animals and states other information like how big enclosures must be and such the animal welfare act is there to prevent the cruelty and suffering of vertabrate animals so yh I it was a well taught course thank you I'm not stupid but thank you for the help at least now I don't have to worry about microchipping


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## Herbie and Jurassicblue

LiasisUK said:


> Horsfields do no legally have to be microchipped as they are not a CITES species so do not require paperwork.
> 
> The only reason to chip one would be for your own use, as in if it is loose in the garden and escaped the owner can be verified from its chip. That is entirely optional and not a commonly done thing, but I have seen it.
> In short no, you do not need to get a Horsfield chipped. There is no legal requirement to do so.


Thanks for the help


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## ian14

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> I never said that all I said was I follow the guide lines of the animal welfare act i never said CITES was part of it I know its a completely separate part of the animal industry because cites is for the trade of exotic and endangered animals and plants only while the animal welfare act only complies to vertabrate animals. that act only states how u should treat those animals and states other information like how big enclosures must be and such the animal welfare act is there to prevent the cruelty and suffering of vertabrate animals so yh I it was a well taught course thank you I'm not stupid but thank you for the help at least now I don't have to worry about microchipping


It's how you worded that post. You have started a thread asking about microchipping. You stated, incorrectly, that "


> but legally all tortoise have to be microchipped for identification when transporting or selling


".
In that same post you stated:



> im doing level 2 animal management at the moment so I try to learn as much as possible to keep my little angel "happy" and healthy following the guidelines of the animal welfare act 2006


Which gave the impression that you thought that CITES and AWA were somehow linked.

Incidentally, with regards to your statement:



> that act only states how u should treat those animals and* states other information like how big enclosures must be*


This is not simply not true. Nowhere in the AWA does it state how big animal enclosures must be. Which adds to the concern about how well taught that course was, if you were told something like that.
The AWA contains a lot more than just "how u should treat those animals". It includes powers to take samples, entry/search/seizure powers, it creates the legal requirement for Local Authorities to appoint Animal Welfare inspectors (interestingly this also specifically excludes the RSPCA) who have legal powers to enforce the Act, and much, much more.


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## SueBoyle

Herbie and Jurassicblue said:


> I never said that all I said was I follow the guide lines of the animal welfare act i never said CITES was part of it I know its a completely separate part of the animal industry because cites is for the trade of exotic and endangered animals and plants only while the animal welfare act only complies to vertabrate animals. that act only states how u should treat those animals and states other information like how big enclosures must be and such the animal welfare act is there to prevent the cruelty and suffering of vertabrate animals so yh I it was a well taught course thank you I'm not stupid but thank you for the help at least now I don't have to worry about microchipping
> [/


I’d suggest you do a little more research from organisations giving correct info in Chelonia management. It’s very easy to think that animal management courses must give correct info whereas most do not. I have visited one such college in Cheshire and another in Shropshire, both keeping tortoises in totally unsuitable conditions. One kept mixed species in an aviary type setting and another was feeding nothing but brassicas which clearly showed in the state of the shells of the animals. Even my 8 year old granddaughter at the time was horrified. Sadly these places are still giving out certs based on their incorrect info. Have a look here www.tortoisetrust.irg or www.tortoises.net or www.tortsmad.com


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