# Shows and the future



## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

This passed week will go down as a defining moment in the history of reptile keeping in the UK, and it’s been one hell of a week that’s for sure. I will keep this brief as I am physically, mentally and emotionally drained, I need a couple of days to catch up on my beauty sleep [I know it’s a waste of time] gather my thoughts and I will come back to you all with a plan of action. I am going to ask each and anyone of you to do something, it will not cost you a penny, it will cost you fifteen minutes of your time that is all!

I have not as yet had time to read all the threads, but I will and I am sure there are a million and one questions that need answering. Here I will give you a pledge – there will be questions that I will not answer! In this last week we have not set any kind of legal president, what we have set is a defining moment. As someone else once said “this is not the end, but it is the beginning of the end” and that is precisely where we are: this is the beginning of the end for the war over shows - that is a pledge I will give you.

I would like to thank everyone for their support but especially my colleagues at the FBH, IHS and indeed Exo Terra who sponsor the IHS show, without their support none of this would have been possible. Finally I would like to express my gratitude to my hero, Richards Brooks, without Richard we would not be where we are now, so please drop Richard a line and thank him, he is a star: [email protected]

Regards,
Chris


----------



## lycanlord20 (Jul 11, 2008)

I will happily do anything I can to ensure the future of our passion


----------



## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Chris Newman said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their support but especially my colleagues at the FBH, IHS and indeed Exo Terra who sponsor the IHS show, without their support none of this would have been possible. Finally I would like to express my gratitude to my hero, Richards Brooks, without Richard we would not be where we are now, so please drop Richard a line and thank him, he is a star: [email protected]
> 
> Regards,
> Chris


Here here old chap!!!!

The two of you plus a few others have done a stirling job over this last week and both are more than due a well earned break, having lived and breathed this thing since last Tuesday!

I know there will be many questions from lots of people on the forum over the coming days and weeks, and I would just urge a little patience from all whilst the people that are willing to do something proactive, rather than reactive, gather their thoughts and start pulling plans together.

Those of us that were there at the FBH conference on Saturday will be aware of some of what I am talking about, and those that were not there... give it a few days or even a week or so before the negative stuff starts to flow *please*. Most people do what they can to help in their spare time as the lucky ones amongst us have jobs to go to and family lives to lead as well as hobbies to support.... so please try to show a little patience..... many thanks to all who showed their support over the weekend.... Peace.... J


----------



## storm (Jul 23, 2007)

i will certainly be sending an email of thanks as soon as in home this evening.. 

the fight is just beginning, but as i said to the lady (im sorry i didnt get your name) on the FBH table by the entrance, i am more than willing to do what i can to help. i have been a member of the IHS for several years now, and i made donations online and at the show.  

i have left my contact details for both email and forums and i look forward to the updates. 

personally i feel that shows should be members only, and breeders and shops maybe should be FBH affiliated. Its no use creating countless FB pages or bickering on forums, its the societies fighting for the future of our hobby that need the support x

once again, fantastic work and my sincere thanks to chris, richard and all the team involved x


----------



## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

My hope is that the recent actions of the APA will act to bring us together in fighting back, rather than the current attitude of quite a lot of people of "it'll never happen!".

There will always be bitching and infighting within any large group, the thing is that so long as we are backing those fighting for us, we still stand a chance.

As one of the founding members of BAKS, I can tell you now that we are trying to find out how we can help the FBH more. It doesn't matter how many societies they are, so long as they all get together behind the FBH.

As an individual hobbyist, I can assure you that I will make a donation to the FBH as soon as I can afford to.

What I am saying is, by all means fight amongst your/ourselves about the things that don't matter (well, sometimes they do matter, but you know what I mean. lol), but when it comes down to it we ALL agree that we don't want to lose our hobby. We stand little chance fighting for it as individuals, we need people like the FBH to spearhead the campaign and to organise us to fight as a group.

Ade

PS. I reckon meetings going members only is a very good idea. The BAKS meeting is a members only meeting. I reckon we all need to back this though for it to work.


----------



## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Chris,

You and your associates have done the reptile keepers proud, as always.

As mentioned in numerous emails, I will be more than happy to assist in any and everyway possible, and can certainly afford to spend more than 15 minutes doing the odd little thing.

Without sounding rude, "I'm all yours, do with me as you wish!"

Thank you to everyone, from the newbies to the highest members of the organisations for all the help and support over the past week. The response from the community has been bigger than I've ever seen, and it shows that we do still have hope in this hobby.
Hopefully the very few naysayers will see this support and change thier opinions.

:2thumb:

Tarron


----------



## Khonsu (May 20, 2009)

Large & long pats on the back for all involved both in ensuring the event occured & occured successfully on the day.

If you're looking for volunteers for anything then count me in.

Cheers

Aimo


----------



## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

I am hopeful that Chris will have no objection to me pasting a link in here which I was only just directed to from another forum. I had not seen this previously and to my mind, it gives people who are new to the hobby or who have not read thousands of posts on hundreds of forums a fairly precise overview of what we are up against. Read, digest and memorise... tests to follow! :whistling2:

Animal Rights & the Future of the Pet Industry 2006 

:2thumb:


----------



## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Janine00 said:


> I am hopeful that Chris will have no objection to me pasting a link in here which I was only just directed to from another forum. I had not seen this previously and to my mind, it gives people who are new to the hobby or who have not read thousands of posts on hundreds of forums a fairly precise overview of what we are up against. Read, digest and memorise... tests to follow! :whistling2:
> 
> Animal Rights & the Future of the Pet Industry 2006
> 
> :2thumb:


I assume he wont mind, he wrote it, lol


----------



## Janine00 (Sep 20, 2008)

Tarron said:


> I assume he wont mind, he wrote it, lol


I'm aware of that, but I am also aware that on occassion, things we have said or done in the past will sometimes jump up and bite us in the bum!:lol2: Now anything I post that has anything to do with other members, I try to remember to (sort of) ask permission first! : victory:


----------



## Tarron (May 30, 2010)

Janine00 said:


> I'm aware of that, but I am also aware that on occassion, things we have said or done in the past will sometimes jump up and bite us in the bum!:lol2: Now anything I post that has anything to do with other members, I try to remember to (sort of) ask permission first! : victory:


Fair enough :2thumb: didnt want to sound like i was having a go, just pointing out.


----------



## GM123 (Nov 23, 2010)

thank u and i think its fair to say that everyone on here will do whatever they can to help save our hobby!!


----------



## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Janine00 said:


> I am hopeful that Chris will have no objection to me pasting a link in here which I was only just directed to from another forum. I had not seen this previously and to my mind, it gives people who are new to the hobby or who have not read thousands of posts on hundreds of forums a fairly precise overview of what we are up against. Read, digest and memorise... tests to follow! :whistling2:
> 
> Animal Rights & the Future of the Pet Industry 2006
> 
> :2thumb:



Scary stuff! :gasp:


----------



## badger13 (Mar 5, 2009)

This is as has been said a defining moment. We must not become complacent.
The one thing that i took away from the weekend was that I met some very knowledgeable and helpful people who really do care about there reptiles.


----------



## starchilduk (Aug 10, 2009)

Would be useful for the FBH and The IHS to put some official documentation together, surrounding the facts of our hobby and for us keepers to do our bit and make use of the social media outlets like FB and twiiter to inform and educate the general public at large.

We will be happy to help, we await our instructions and will support in anyway we can to, support the keepers, breeders, retail outlets and infrastructure that supports us all.


----------



## Khanidge (Jul 25, 2008)

starchilduk said:


> Would be useful for the FBH and The IHS to put some official documentation together, surrounding the facts of our hobby and for us keepers to do our bit and make use of the social media outlets like FB and twiiter to inform and educate the general public at large.
> 
> We will be happy to help, we await our instructions and will support in anyway we can to, support the keepers, breeders, retail outlets and infrastructure that supports us all.


This is all in hand but it will take a little while to publish it. Soon in a few days or so Chris will be asking every keeper to give us 15 minutes of their time.

As one of the FBH members, I would once again Thank every one for their time and Donations :notworthy::notworthy::2thumb::no1:, 
However we are not out of the fire yet, there is still one hell of a fight, and I for one, will not give up, we must unite, use the tools given to us to our advantage. 

But I must ask every one not to contact the Anti's in any shape or form. I know this is very hard for us to do but there is a good reason why, please ignore their ignorance and stupidity, as each time we answer them we create more publicity and cyber traffic for them to make money from. 
Just keep your eyes peeled and your wits about you. They are here watching us, collecting information on us all. Give them nothing to use against us. Remember the PM system, and our Moderators are here to help. 
There are more of us animal lovers than those Anti's will ever have.
We will beat them..................................................................:whip::bash:




Together we stand, divided we fall​ 
:war:​


----------



## Iulia (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm quite new to snake keeping and never been to a show yet, but was stunned and shocked by what happened last week.

Was working Sunday sadly or would have gone on principle. However, I DID donate, and will for sure do my bit with whatever happens now. Just wait for advice.

Cheers and thanks guys


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

starchilduk said:


> Would be useful for the FBH and The IHS to put some official documentation together, surrounding the facts of our hobby and for us keepers to do our bit and make use of the social media outlets like FB and twiiter to inform and educate the general public at large.
> 
> .


I think it'd be helpful to do what the anti's do, but for the right reasons.
The APA and their cronies will go into shows with hidden video cameras, even though if there's a 'no camera' policy. They'll then use it in their propeganda to say that the display cases were too small and this that and the other.
You rarely see video footage from shows to give the correct story. All it would take is an authorised 'crew' to film at shows and film the stands, and edit with voice overs explaining things.... such as the reason they're in the containers they're in and how long they spend in their etc etc. 
At the minute they just have a pictures and videos on the APA's website of animals in small tubs and being told it's bad.


----------



## paulie78 (Aug 26, 2011)

Considering what yourself and others have endured this week in the batle for our hobby id think spareing 15 minutes is the very least i can do i am eternally gratefull for your efforts Donnie was my first reptile show and a fantastic experiance depsite the events leading up to it it was great to see so many people there supporting our cause i for one will do everything in my power to return to help whatever you need consider it done!


----------



## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

If there is any way I can help, I'll give alot more than 15 minutes. I'm not particularly skilled at anything apart from fishing and caring for reptiles but I am very willing!

One thing you would never know from the anti's Doncaster vid is that many of the animals at the show were in decent sized setups. Ok they weren't big enough for permanent housing but for a few hours at the show I think those reptiles were more comfortable than a slightly claustrophobic geckograham! I didn't see any tables that caused me any concern, from a distance I thought some frogs in little cups may have been a bit cramped. When I saw how tiny the frogs were though I could see they had plenty of room. It was all good as far as I'm concerned, no animal welfare concerns there.


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

geckograham said:


> One thing you would never know from the anti's Doncaster vid is that many of the animals at the show were in decent sized setups. Ok they weren't big enough for permanent housing but for a few hours at the show I think those reptiles were more comfortable than a slightly claustrophobic geckograham! I didn't see any tables that caused me any concern, from a distance I thought some frogs in little cups may have been a bit cramped. When I saw how tiny the frogs were though I could see they had plenty of room. It was all good as far as I'm concerned, no animal welfare concerns there.



That's the kind of thing I mean about a pro show video. You only ever see anti's videos with things like '_they keep frogs in cups_ :gasp:' or "_wild snakes kept in a small tupperware box :devil:"_. But nothing that explains how the shows work, how long they're in the tubs etc


----------



## paulie78 (Aug 26, 2011)

Meko said:


> That's the kind of thing I mean about a pro show video. You only ever see anti's videos with things like '_they keep frogs in cups_ :gasp:' or "_wild snakes kept in a small tupperware box :devil:"_. But nothing that explains how the shows work, how long they're in the tubs etc



I would assume thats because if they actually bothered to investigate the hows and whys they really wouldnt have a cause to fight in the first place i really dont believe half theese people truely care about animal welfare they just want to be "activists" 
If they truely cared about animal welfare why arent they out there educating people or volunteering at local animal sanctuarys or fundraising etc im sure there are plenty in need but nope theyd rather tar us all with a nasty old brush and believe all the silly myths and falsehoods that have become commonplace within the hobby! 

I have names for people like that shant utter them here though because i consider myself a gentleman lol


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

paulie78 said:


> I would assume thats because if they actually bothered to investigate the hows and whys they really wouldnt have a cause to fight in the first place i really dont believe half theese people truely care about animal welfare they just want to be "activists"



The APA don't make their videos for themselves to watch.

The videos would obviously be aimed at the people to watch, who'd see the APA's videos. So instead of only having one side, they'd be able to see a documentary type video explaining why they're in tubs that size, how long for etc.


----------



## paulie78 (Aug 26, 2011)

Meko said:


> The APA don't make their videos for themselves to watch.
> 
> The videos would obviously be aimed at the people to watch, who'd see the APA's videos. So instead of only having one side, they'd be able to see a documentary type video explaining why they're in tubs that size, how long for etc.


I think its a really good idea as the problem is theres too much misinformation out there spread by organisations such as the apa its a shame theres not a standardised way of doing things for all shows to adhere too that would probably help but the stuff sold at the shows is so diverse i imagine its be extremely hard to implement anything


----------



## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

There is indeed. If you look at the profile picture on the APA's Facebook page
Animal Protection Agency | Facebook

It gives a visual image / story of a problem. If you don't know any better then it's no different than seeing pictures of battery hens.


----------



## paulie78 (Aug 26, 2011)

Meko said:


> There is indeed. If you look at the profile picture on the APA's Facebook page
> Animal Protection Agency | Facebook
> 
> It gives a visual image / story of a problem. If you don't know any better then it's no different than seeing pictures of battery hens.



I really could not agree more and lets face it us ethical keeping hobbyists are not going to be looking on websites such as the apa (cept to maybe see what blasphemous bs they might be spouting) its the people that dont know any better that might see an APA link on facebook and see a one sided argument which is why i think awareness of the hobby and how its run is really important the public need to see we arent all nasty horrid people who keep bearded dragons in lil tubs and snakes in lil deli cups which is the impression theyd get from such videos


----------

