# Mexican Red Knee help



## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I have two T.s: one is a Chile Rose, she eats fine every week, has laid plenty of webbing down accorss the substrate, drinks from her water bowl and if active. 

My other is worrying me a bit, a Mexican Red Knee, I've had her since 9th of January and she hasnt eaten once, shop said she would eat anything (I have tried her on both crickets and locusts), she hardly moves in the tank, hasnt webbed anything at all and doesn't seem to touch the water bowl, she is quite active once you pick her up though. Any ideas? My Chile rose is refuse to eat for a bit over the winter, could it just be this?


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> I have two T.s: one is a Chile Rose, she eats fine every week, has laid plenty of webbing down accorss the substrate, drinks from her water bowl and if active.
> 
> My other is worrying me a bit, a Mexican Red Knee, I've had her since 9th of January and she hasnt eaten once, shop said she would eat anything (I have tried her on both crickets and locusts), she hardly moves in the tank, hasnt webbed anything at all and doesn't seem to touch the water bowl, she is quite active once you pick her up though. Any ideas? My Chile rose is refuse to eat for a bit over the winter, could it just be this?


Do you have it on a heat pad? Mine didn't do much when I was using heat. Pretty lethargic. Started eating and moving around more once I removed the heat. Could also be pre moult. How big is it?


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

No, mine are both kept at room temp, about 18-23c max in the day. I know my Chile rose is about 2 years old and the red knee is slightly smaller.


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

Possible pre moult. Brachys aren't the quickest growers. As long as it looks healthy and has water it's just a waiting game.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

bash_on_recce said:


> I have two T.s: one is a Chile Rose, she eats fine every week, has laid plenty of webbing down accorss the substrate, drinks from her water bowl and if active.
> 
> My other is worrying me a bit, a Mexican Red Knee, I've had her since 9th of January and she hasnt eaten once, shop said she would eat anything (I have tried her on both crickets and locusts), she hardly moves in the tank, hasnt webbed anything at all and doesn't seem to touch the water bowl, she is quite active once you pick her up though. Any ideas? My Chile rose is refuse to eat for a bit over the winter, could it just be this?


can I ask how are you keeping the substrate as b smithi don,t like it damp


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## madhobbit (Apr 7, 2012)

Ive had B Smithi's for over 30 years, they do prefer nice dry living conditions.

any wet near them and they thrown a tantrum :blush:

it could be in a moult though.

ask the person you bought it off when its last moult was...


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Its eco earth but when i fill the water bowl i lit a little over lap to create a humidity gradient. She seems to stand where she likes though, susstrate doesnt seem to bother her. Will have to cjheck back with the pet shop, good little pet shop but i have a feeling they wont even remember XD


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## madhobbit (Apr 7, 2012)

you should never buy any animals from a pet shop... :bash: LOL :lol2:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

madhobbit said:


> you should never buy any animals from a pet shop... :bash: LOL :lol2:


 Tell me about it, I'm usually pretty Anti-pet shop these days :lol2:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Shes still not eating and her back end looks very thin. Does seem quite as active when I picked her up today to check her. I'm tempted to rehome her Incase its something I'm doing wrong :/


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

Sounds a lot like pre moult. T's go lethargic to conserve energy and it can take a while. Picking it up everyday wont do any favours if this is the case but it's compelled to move. No need to overflow the water dish as the water that evaporates will be enough humidity. 

Does it have a bald spot so you can see if it's in pre moult?

If not I'd suggest leaving it alone completely for a couple of weeks and maybe try a cricket. If it doesn't eat it then it's most likely going to moult.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Veyron said:


> Sounds a lot like pre moult. T's go lethargic to conserve energy and it can take a while. Picking it up everyday wont do any favours if this is the case but it's compelled to move. No need to overflow the water dish as the water that evaporates will be enough humidity.
> 
> Does it have a bald spot so you can see if it's in pre moult?
> 
> If not I'd suggest leaving it alone completely for a couple of weeks and maybe try a cricket. If it doesn't eat it then it's most likely going to moult.


I've only picked it up today, before that hadn't picked it up since I last updated this thread xD

Just finally added a photo, looks like a bald patch to me on the back :2thumb: phew!


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## **louise** (Nov 10, 2010)

I got my red knee about a month ago off a friend and it hasn't eaten for me yet. It barely moved in the tub and just didn't really do much at all apart from flick hairs at me when I disturbed it. 

Turns out it was premoult and it moulted a few days ago. I'm going to try it with a roach soon and see if it's ready to eat. 

Have to say mines abdomen didn't look as small as that though but being new to tarantulas I don't know how common that is. Mine are all fat bums lol


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## Veyron (Mar 29, 2011)

Yeah just seen the photo. Think I can see a very small thin patch on the back, so shouldn't be long now. As I said, it needs to save it's energy now so no more handling or opening the lid.

It does look thin though for a captive T that's ready to moult. Pet shops :devil:

Just make sure it has a massive locust a week or so after the moult to cheer it up haha


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Veyron said:


> Yeah just seen the photo. Think I can see a very small thin patch on the back, so shouldn't be long now. As I said, it needs to save it's energy now so no more handling or opening the lid.
> 
> It does look thin though for a captive T that's ready to moult. Pet shops :devil:
> 
> Just make sure it has a massive locust a week or so after the moult to cheer it up haha


Thats what worried me, I had her since January and she hasnt eaten. When i asked the pet shop what she ate, they said 'Oh anything really'...yeah right


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## spidersnake (Dec 1, 2009)

My red knee decided to fast for about 8 months once but when it finally ate again it had moulted. Im sure you have nothing to worry about. The abdomen does look a little small but I have been told that *could* be an indication of sex - abdomen smaller than the carapace is most likely male, larger than the carapace is likely to be female. I would never advise you take that as gospel though......


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## martin3 (May 24, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> looks like a bald patch to me on the back :2thumb: phew!


That bald patch is only where its been flicking hair, its not an indication of a moult, but it does make seeing the colour of its abdomen easy'r, it will look dark before a moult,...


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## 34531 (May 27, 2009)

Two years old you say? :-o


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## **louise** (Nov 10, 2010)

martin3 said:


> That bald patch is only where its been flicking hair, its not an indication of a moult, but it does make seeing the colour of its abdomen easy'r, it will look dark before a moult,...


Yup, like this..

Normal..









Pre moult:









Post moult:


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> Shes still not eating and her back end looks very thin. Does seem quite as active when I picked her up today to check her. I'm tempted to rehome her Incase its something I'm doing wrong :/
> image
> image


Looks pretty thin to be fair... Are you sure it's not male? Wouldn't put it past a shop to say it's a couple of years old, feeding and female... But then saying that I would be surprised if a male isn't webbing at all.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

becky89 said:


> Looks pretty thin to be fair... Are you sure it's not male? Wouldn't put it past a shop to say it's a couple of years old, feeding and female... But then saying that I would be surprised if a male isn't webbing at all.


This was the same shop that a couple of months ago sold me a 'Giant Madagascar Brown Millipede' (Narceus americana) for £29.99....spot the mistakes....

I took it straight back as soon as I realised having done more research on it and had a refund:bash:

The bald patch is on the back of the opisthosoma where it joins the prosoma, not right at the back of the Tarantula.

The pet shop reckoned less than 2 years old yes.

This was the problem, I bought her before I know more about male and female difference and biology.

She doesn't have the male 'clubbed' pedipalps.


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## **louise** (Nov 10, 2010)

bash_on_recce said:


> The pet shop reckoned less than 2 years old yes.
> 
> This was the problem, I bought her before I know more about male and female difference and biology.
> 
> She doesn't have the male 'clubbed' pedipalps.


Mine is much older and didn't moult for about 2 years. I discovered that it's actually a male and still isn't mature yet. No hooks or gloves. It could well be a 2 year old male that is still yet to mature. I thought mine was female :lol2:


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

**louise** said:


> Mine is much older and didn't moult for about 2 years. I discovered that it's actually a male and still isn't mature yet. No hooks or gloves. It could well be a 2 year old male that is still yet to mature. I thought mine was female :lol2:


So is the concensus its either a female taking a long time to molt?....or its a male taking a long time to moult?:lol2:

Its the weight I'm really worried about, and the fact that I may have paid £40 for a male :/


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't know millipedes so can't spot any mistakes tbh lol, but I'm guessing it wasn't right. Well not a MM, no matter what age until mature males should have normally sized abdomens. It may be worth increasing the temperatures a little with a statted heat mat, but tbh I think your room is warmer than mine is and my girl eats no worries. Does she ever show any interest in food? Does she ever look like she's cleaning her fangs a lot?


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> So is the concensus its either a female taking a long time to molt?....or its a male taking a long time to moult?:lol2:
> 
> Its the weight I'm really worried about, and the fact that I may have paid £40 for a male :/


If she's coming up to a moult they've kept her far too thin, I've never had a spider go from fat>thin before a moult takes place when they stop eating voluntarily for it. Likewise with a male. Once they are mature they rarely moult again and rarely eat, but you would see hooks, enlarged pedipalps so that would explain them being so small. An immature male would eat as a female would.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

The problem with the millipede was there no such thing as a Giant Madagascar Brown as far as I could tell and the scientific name is that of the American Brown Millipede, fail on the shops behalf xD

They said they would sent it back to the supplier but I reckon they just put it back in the tank and sold it to someone who didn't know or wouldn't question it!

No fang cleaning and absolutley no interest in any type of food 

Room temp for me is about 19-24 for me.


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## becky89 (Nov 24, 2009)

bash_on_recce said:


> The problem with the millipede was there no such thing as a Giant Madagascar Brown as far as I could tell and the scientific name is that of the American Brown Millipede, fail on the shops behalf xD
> 
> They said they would sent it back to the supplier but I reckon they just put it back in the tank and sold it to someone who didn't know or wouldn't question it!
> 
> ...


Oh fair enough then lol! Tbh I don't know what else it could be really, unless she just happens to be thin and coming up to moult, hopefully someone else will be able to help


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## garlicpickle (Jan 16, 2009)

does its abdomen look wrinkled at all? I'd be tempted to put it fangs down in a shallow dish of water in case it needs a good drink (it will not drown as they don't breathe through their "mouths") 
Sometimes they dont seem to have the sense to look for water, even if they need it.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

garlicpickle said:


> does its abdomen look wrinkled at all? I'd be tempted to put it fangs down in a shallow dish of water in case it needs a good drink (it will not drown as they don't breathe through their "mouths")
> Sometimes they dont seem to have the sense to look for water, even if they need it.


There some pics at the bottom of page 1, does it look wrinkled? My Chile Rose seems to drink up her water often and I'm always topping it up, not the same for this one.


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## fazzer (Jul 19, 2009)

*Smithi*

It is Dehydrated ,up the temp and humidity ,and offer water immediately .You must up the temp as obviously it is to lethargic to access water for itself ,mist the whole of the container with a plant sprayer,even on the spider itself ,but you will be wasting your time if you do not increase the temp ! Nothing to do with premoult ! Even place the spiders mouthparts in the water ,but obviously do not immerse the whole of the spider as it's so weak it may not be able to avoid flooding it's book lungs .

Please do this now . Good luck All the best Chris .

PS There is good advise on the net regards proper care of T's i suggest you have a good trawl through and build up your knowledge .

All the best Chris Farrow


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

fazzer said:


> It is Dehydrated ,up the temp and humidity ,and offer water immediately .You must up the temp as obviously it is to lethargic to access water for itself ,mist the whole of the container with a plant sprayer,even on the spider itself ,but you will be wasting your time if you do not increase the temp ! Nothing to do with premoult ! Even place the spiders mouthparts in the water ,but obviously do not immerse the whole of the spider as it's so weak it may not be able to avoid flooding it's book lungs .
> 
> Please do this now . Good luck All the best Chris .
> 
> ...


I second this your smithi is not in premoult just needs water ! Smithi should not be kept below 25c.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I better explain where I am getting my info from, its not that I haven't done my research. I have mostly used 'The Tarantula Keeper's Guide' by Stanley A. Schultz and Marguerite J.Schultz which I was under an impression that this book is *the* go to care guide. In the book it says, and I quote, 'Any temperature at which you are comfortable will suit the Tarantula just fine.' and 'A slightly lower temperature is almost always much preferable to an artifical source.'.

I'm not going on the defensive, and I will be putting into practice the advice I have been given, I just want people to understand I have not negelected my pet and *have* spent time before and during the keeping of my T., Infact I own most of the mainstream T. books that are available at the moment.

On another note, this wouldn't be the first Time I have had something from a pet shop and have had to spend time bringing it up to a suitable level of care. suffice to say apart from my pair of Plated Lizards that I rehomed from a closing down pet shop, I dont deal with pet shops if I can help it, i've yet to find one that really impressed me.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

bash_on_recce said:


> I better explain where I am getting my info from, its not that I haven't done my research. I have mostly used 'The Tarantula Keeper's Guide' by Stanley A. Schultz and Marguerite J.Schultz which I was under an impression that this book is *the* go to care guide. In the book it says, and I quote, 'Any temperature at which you are comfortable will suit the Tarantula just fine.' and 'A slightly lower temperature is almost always much preferable to an artifical source.'.
> 
> I'm not going on the defensive, and I will be putting into practice the advice I have been given, I just want people to understand I have not negelected my pet and *have* spent time before and during the keeping of my T., Infact I own most of the mainstream T. books that are available at the moment.
> 
> On another note, this wouldn't be the first Time I have had something from a pet shop and have had to spend time bringing it up to a suitable level of care. suffice to say apart from my pair of Plated Lizards that I rehomed from a closing down pet shop, I dont deal with pet shops if I can help it, i've yet to find one that really impressed me.


I was not for 1 second saying you do not know what your doing or negelecting your smithi . The mainstream of books I find give general information and basic care's for different t's and though there are set out do's and don't each tarantula are individuals to! My smithi stopped eating while using heat but as soon as I removed the heat and kept at room temp she stuffed her fangs with 2 locust lol


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

Tarantulaguy01 said:


> I was not for 1 second saying you do not know what your doing or negelecting your smithi . The mainstream of books I find give general information and basic care's for different t's and though there are set out do's and don't each tarantula are individuals to! My smithi stopped eating while using heat but as soon as I removed the heat and kept at room temp she stuffed her fangs with 2 locust lol


Lol, I know, I know! I just felt I needed to put a disclaimer up there. I just wanted people to know I had researched. Whether I've researched the right stuff is a different matter and I'm always happy to take on new advice and information :2thumb:


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

I hope your Smithi makes a recovery 

I've not had my Smithi sling that long but so far she's not refused food and the room she's kept in is between 22-28*C, she did have a little bottle top for water but she kept digging about and filling it with substrate, silly girl lol, so now I just spray the sides of her home plus the plastic plant stuff catches the drops of water.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

AilsaM said:


> I hope your Smithi makes a recovery
> 
> I've not had my Smithi sling that long but so far she's not refused food and the room she's kept in is between 22-28*C, she did have a little bottle top for water but she kept digging about and filling it with substrate, silly girl lol, so now I just spray the sides of her home plus the plastic plant stuff catches the drops of water.


I use the exo terr small food dishes for water for T.s as they are shallow with no risk of drowning


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## AilsaM (May 18, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> I use the exo terr small food dishes for water for T.s as they are shallow with no risk of drowning


Mine just had a cola bottle top, no risk of drowning as she's a grown on sling prob about 5cm, the daft thing just kept on filling it with substrate lol


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

Tarantulaguy01 said:


> I second this your smithi is not in premoult just needs water ! Smithi should not be kept below 25c.


B.smithi are fine at regular room temperature. The only time I had any issues was keeping her in a heated space and she barely ate or moved. The most dramatic thing she did was escape for months only to turn up in the coldest part of the house completely fine. I haven't kept her heated since and she is thriving.

It's just not true that these spiders need high heat and in some cases it's counter-productive.

The spider looks in poor condition though mate. A bit anorexic looking. Does she drink at all? Might be worth trying to force fluids as mentioned above.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

kris74 said:


> B.smithi are fine at regular room temperature. The only time I had any issues was keeping her in a heated space and she barely ate or moved. The most dramatic thing she did was escape for months only to turn up in the coldest part of the house completely fine. I haven't kept her heated since and she is thriving.
> 
> It's just not true that these spiders need high heat and in some cases it's counter-productive.
> 
> The spider looks in poor condition though mate. A bit anorexic looking. Does she drink at all? Might be worth trying to force fluids as mentioned above.


I also said there are exeptions to the rule as mine is room temp 23c


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## kris74 (May 10, 2011)

Tarantulaguy01 said:


> I also said there are exeptions to the rule as mine is room temp 23c


I wouldn't say it's an exception to the rule either though. 25c is quite warm. These things live in deserts and scrub where night temps will drop pretty low and they'd be at their most active then and when it's warm in the daytime they hide in cool spots. They rarely have this option in captivity.


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## Tarantulaguy01 (Mar 31, 2012)

kris74 said:


> I wouldn't say it's an exception to the rule either though. 25c is quite warm. These things live in deserts and scrub where night temps will drop pretty low and they'd be at their most active then and when it's warm in the daytime they hide in cool spots. They rarely have this option in captivity.


that's a very good point kris noted .


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm outting the advice into practice so I'll kee you updated. 

Is her taking food the only way i'm going to tell if theres been an improvement?


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

I've had her in a cricket tub with a damp layer of Sphagnum moss, with a heat mat for 24 hrs. Before this I also dripped water into her mouth.

There is definitley an improvement, her back end is larger and the colour seems to have come back to her, she isn't so grey coloured anymore, much brighter. :2thumb:

I'll keep going with her, hopefully she will eat soon too.


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## bash_on_recce (Jul 31, 2011)

bash_on_recce said:


> I've had her in a cricket tub with a damp layer of Sphagnum moss, with a heat mat for 24 hrs. Before this I also dripped water into her mouth.
> 
> There is definitley an improvement, her back end is larger and the colour seems to have come back to her, she isn't so grey coloured anymore, much brighter. :2thumb:
> 
> I'll keep going with her, hopefully she will eat soon too.





























: victory:


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## MaskFac3 (Dec 2, 2011)

Nice one mate. My b.smithi is moulting right now \^_^/


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