# Breeding mice



## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

so what do i need to kepp them in feed them on?
what do i do with the babys how do i cull them?
what do i keep them on?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> so what do i need to kepp them in feed them on?
> what do i do with the babys how do i cull them?
> what do i keep them on?


Feed on alot of things. Lab blocks is easiest but a mix of oats, dog food and sow (breeding pig) rolls if up to protein/fat standards will do ok, along with veggie scraps every now and again.
You can cull the babies many ways again, but the easiest and quickest would be CO2 (Step by Step how to CO2 chamber http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/feeder/128997-step-step-guide-making-c02.html) or severing of the spinal cord.
Again, you can keep them on many things! I have found by far the best is wood pellets (not shavings). It keeps in smell and is easy to spot clean, and good for the mice. Next to that would be compressed newspaper/straw bedding wich is much the same as the wood pellets but more expensive. Then wood shavings, kiln dried or not has the potential of giving RI's but it is very slim. I found the smell quicker/easier and go moldy quickly, quite cheap in price though. Make sure its kiln dried if you use it at all.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

ok could i keep them in my shed or would they die?


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## 9Red (May 30, 2008)

For baby mice I would always recommend cervical dislocation (neck-breaking) rather than CO2. This is because young mice have a built-in 'anti-smother' mechanism that prevents them from suffocating if they get laid on by their mum. This mechanism can make CO2 gasing ineffective, and may result in prolonged respiratory distress rather than a painless 'falling asleep' euthanasia. Because of this I would not use CO2 for any mice smaller than a large hopper size. 

Cervical dislocation is easy once you've got the hang of it. The main thing is to make sure the head/neck is firmly pinned and to commit fully when you pull the tail - if you're squeamish and don't pull firmly enough you can end up crushing the spinal column rather than severing it which causes a great deal of pain. So when you do it - go for it and pull hard!


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

can i keep them in the shed


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## SnakeBreeder (Mar 11, 2007)

jcuk94 said:


> can i keep them in the shed


YES, but you may need to heat it, in cool weather, or they will stop breeding.
If the temp gets too low they will simply die, unless you have a very big cage and a ton of insulating bedding.

I breed mine in my loft and heat it with a fan heater.
The loft is very well insulated
They are fed on several animal mixes ( rabbit / guinea pig / dog etc) with added nuts. 

Stephen


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

what shoiuld i heat them with ie. bulbs, heatmats


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

9Red - sorry was totally out of it yesterday good point about the co2 



jcuk94 said:


> what shoiuld i heat them with


Ermm..A heater? :lol2:
But in all seriousness a heater would be best. A heat mat is a maybe, but it would need to be controlled by a stat, aswell as the fact they will chew it to peices if its not protected. Or "snuggle safe" heat pads, Something like this would do as long as the temp is controlled.http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4150671/Trail/searchtext>HEATER.htm or
http://www.snugglesafe.co.uk/heatpad.htm or tubular heaters http://www.alertelectrical.com/Elec...rs/Dimplex-Tubular-Heater-120W--DIMTUX120.asp


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

ok so how would i use these in the tank or outside of it?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> ok so how would i use these in the tank or outside of it?


Snuddle safe heat pads go inside in the bed spot.
Tubular heater or heater fan can be put on the wall in the shed. If you are using glass tanks then I suggest putting them on a table and having the heater fan underneath it, or with the tubular heater putting it over the top/on the ceiling as opposed to on the side wall.


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

I have several breeding groups on the go at the moment. Fed on a mix of guinea pig food and ferret food for protien and fats, with veg cutting from the skunk dinners.

mine are bedded on aubiose horse bedding. as it comes in huge bales and is made from recycled wood. dust free and they can shred it to nest in. its soft anyway but they still shred it more lol

I keep em in my kitchen, no extra heating or anything they seem to approve. other then that you could use a fan heater but for heavens sake stat it! you dont want to cook your mice if they are in a shed. please! You could use heatmats and lamps but again.. stat them. and fireproof your shed if you can.

Culling wise you could freeze them as some people do or you could flick the back of their necks which breaks the neck and kills them that way. dont flick too hard. otherwise its rather gross.

hope that helps you


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

so i could just put them straight in the frezzer then??


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> so i could just put them straight in the frezzer then??


Well, yes you can, but it is definitely not humane.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

oki shall probably stick to a co2 chamber


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## andrms0 (Aug 26, 2008)

i think they would die slowly and painfully in the freezer, i just throw them on the floor or against a wall really hard. sometimes i get twitchers but they are definately dead. i have a male and female rat in plastic boxes joined by tunnels, after the first batch was born they faught a bit but i cleaned them out recently and it seems to have stopped. it involved touching the three week old babies but the mother still accepts them. anyone else have problems with fighting?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

andrms0 said:


> i think they would die slowly and painfully in the freezer, i just throw them on the floor or against a wall really hard. sometimes i get twitchers but they are definately dead. i have a male and female rat in plastic boxes joined by tunnels, after the first batch was born they faught a bit but i cleaned them out recently and it seems to have stopped. it involved touching the three week old babies but the mother still accepts them. anyone else have problems with fighting?


If the male was left with the female when she gave birth he would have knocked her up just before she gave birth and when pregnant sometimes they will fight off/kill a male.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Sorry didnt realise I had said "knocked up" until after I posted, and the edit button has disapeared in my time of need. :blush::lol2:


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

if i did this in my loft would the smell come through the celling.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> if i did this in my loft would the smell come through the celling.


If they are kept on good substrate and it isnt to warm in there and there is a window then no it shouldnt. I wouldnt suggest breeding them in your loft if there isnt a window or two though. For both ventilation and light for the mice.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

looks like ill need to get myself a shed then(any ideas were i could get one reasonably cheaply?)


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> looks like ill need to get myself a shed then(any ideas were i could get one reasonably cheaply?)


I would say you need a minimum of a 4x6 shed (isnt that the minimum size sold anyway?) so you are probably looking for a minimum of £400 new. Take a look on Ebay for a good quality second hand one or build you own (much cheaper).

ETA: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/garden-shed-6...14&_trkparms=72:1296|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1307


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

do you have any idea on how much it would cost for me to build one how and what materials thanks??


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> do you have any idea on how much it would cost for me to build one how and what materials thanks??


Oh crap :lol2:

Well, what would you be planning to keep in it? (ie. any reps, other feeders etc?) and how many mouse colonys do you plan on keeping and do you think you will expand later?


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

im pritty sure im just going to be keeping feeder mice 1 male and 2 or 3 females in there may expand later on when i get more reps. any help would be appriciated thanks!!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

This should help, you just need to adjust the sizes to what you need How to build a storage shed


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## reptile1 (Jan 25, 2008)

how many breeding groups of 1.3 are you gonna keep 
i priced making a shed it was about £350 Insulated 8ft by 8ft


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> im pritty sure *im just going to be keeping feeder mice 1 male and 2 or 3 females* in there may expand later on when i get more reps. any help would be appriciated thanks!!!





reptile1 said:


> how many breeding groups of 1.3 are you gonna keep
> i priced making a shed it was about £350 Insulated 8ft by 8ft


: victory: and the insulation is well worth it if you do decide to keep them in a shed.


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## reptile1 (Jan 25, 2008)

i see so only 1 breeding group of 1.2/1.3 if thats the case i would not bother building a shed for one group if you know what i mean


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

reptile1 said:


> i see so only 1 breeding group of 1.2/1.3 if thats the case i would not bother building a shed for one group if you know what i mean


Thats what I was thinking. If anything I would buy a nice cage or tank, decor it up and keep it in a main room. 1 male wont smell much if the tank is kept clean and they can be a fun addition to a room especially for little kids! They zoom around like mad and are generally friendly aswell :2thumb:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh and if you care to read it (yes, I know its long but everytime I finished it I kept having to add things to it) this may answer some other questions you might have:

How to: Feeder breeder: Mice

Introduction:
I am sure most of you reading this will have heard about breeding mice for the consumption of reptiles, raptors and other exotic animals. If not, here is a quick explanation. Lets face it, mice are expensive to buy if you need to buy a large amount of them and especially with the credit crunch I am sure most of us are feeling the pinch, so alot of reptile owners are resorting to breeding they're own mice, wich aswell as being cost effective ensures you should never run out of food and it stops having to take trips to the shops to get food, it is also a good idea for those of you who have to live-feed as it means you dont have to support pet shops and you get a healthy animal (with the large quantities of animals bred for pet shops it is easy to get diseases and illness' spread through out the whole "flock", especially parasites such as mites). So now lets move on to the maintaining of a colony of mice.

Choosing your mice:
It is best to go to a breeder to get your mice as you will almost never be able to tell any genetics of pet shop mice meaning you could be line breeding or producing mice with Genetic health problems. In an ideal mouse you want a long face, bright eyes, "top hat" ears, a thick tail and ears/eyes/nose to be clear of discharge. Also try to go for bigger strains of mice and those that have a back ground of large litters. 

Housing:
This is usually a matter of opinion! Some say mice should have wire cages, some say tanks, some say tubs. If your main aim is to keep your mice happy, content and fit then wire cages are advised however do not use a cage for breeding mice if the bar spacing is bigger then 1/4"x1/4" as babies will be able to squeeze out of anything smaller. The use of cages means you can add plenty of toys, ladders and hammocks to keep the mice happy and they can also climb the bars. If your main aim is too keep it cheap, simple and easy to clean then it is a good idea to go with the a bookcase or mouse rack system. These two are very similar but generally a mouse rack is made with concrete mixing tubs or storage tubs and a bookcase system is made with glass tanks. There is pro's and con's to both, a glass tank is chew proof but heavy to carry about to clean (especially when there is soiled bedding in it) and more expensive aswell as the fact they dont come in a very wide range of sizes . Plastic tubs are light to carry about, come in a wide range of sizes and are cheap but they are also not very chew proof. The book case system is basically a book case/ shelf cabinet with tanks (with mesh tops) on the shelves. This is very simple but not very cheap if you have to buy everything brand new. For directions on making a mouse rack look here: Building a rat rack. . It is your choice on wich you choose and what is suited to your circumstances. If you are going to be keeping more then 5 mice it is advised to put them in a room that is used for animals only or in a shed/out building. Buck mice stink. There is no way around it. You can keep as many females as you like in a room and have very little smell, add a few bucks and you will soon start to smell them! Some people keep a trio or pair of bucks in a tank in an outbuilding and keep females and babies inside and just bring in the male to mate with the females for the day before clean out day, this can work well. Housing should be cleaned as needed, there is no set date as it all depends on how many mice are kept in how much space, but you should have AT LEAST enough space to lay down flat without having to lay over another mouse.

Bedding:
There is tons of beddings to choose from, some better then others and alot of them toxic. What bedding you use coud be great for you, but rubbish "for the next person". Some of the toxic beddings out there are Cedar and non kiln-dried pine. A favourite due to its availability, odourless quality and price is kiln-dried pine bedding. The down side is that kiln-dried or not it has the potential to give RI's and is often dusty as well as stinks when soiled badly. Preffered is wood pellet's sold as cat litter as this is easy to scoop out soiled bedding every few days, holds in odour, its cheap, safe and widely available. But also beddings such as carefresh, yesterdays news, shredded newspaper and hay/straw are popular. 

Feeding:
The main reason people breed mice for themselves is to save money, but whatever you feed it has still got to be a complete, nutritious diet. Remember, the nutrition you put into the mice is the nutrition you put into your animals. There is a huge range of foods mice will eat and thrive on and there really isnt a "best" food, but there is preferred food - especially by the mice! Ideally the food should be as little processed as possible, that is pure natural foods. Mice are great animals to get rid of food scraps! Generally, if its ok for humans its ok for mice however there is exceptions to this. But fresh vegetable scraps such as carrot, lettuce, brocolli, cucumber, cabbage, peas, cooked potatoe, cooked meat (with bones), salad etc are great for mice. Other things like 16% protein 6% fat dog food, lab blocks, sow (breeding/weaning pig) rolls, rabbit/guinea pig/rat/mouse muesli and chick crumb along with the occasional slice of dried brown bread. Also buying bagged salads that have been reduced in price will be a good meal for mice as long as it dosent contain anything harmful such as iceberg lettuce. Also things like cooking oats (NOT the instant kind), flaked maize and flaked peas are enjoyed a few times a week and make for a very cheap meal. Fresh water can be given in a water bottle, auto-watering system or bowl, Bottles and auto-watering systems stay much cleaner then bowls as bedding etc cant get into the water, unlike bowls. On a small scale breeding bottles would work out best but on a larger scale (over 15 tubs/cages/tanks of colonys) it is definitely easier to use an auto-watering system as it just means all you need to fill is the main watering bucket as opposed to 15+ bottles every day. FResh, cool water should be availabe at all times. 

Handling:
Unless the mice will be pets as well as feeders (wich isnt adivsed) handling isnt important, however it is good to get the mice used to you handling them and reaching into the tub/tank/cage daily and picking out a few mice and making sure there is nothing abnormal about them and there is no discharge around the face area will help you in handling and wont stress them out as much as well as it could stop the spread of ilness around the whole colony of rats and it stops you having to pick up mice by the tails wich could easily injure them. 

Breeding:

In one way mouse breeding is relatively easy, in another way its not. However after you've setup it is pretty easy. There is a few ways different people do things, so firstly I will talk about the way labs/mill breeders do it. The aim at a mill breeder/lab is to have as many litters out of a doe as possible before she dies or goes infertile, so males will be left with females all the time. This means that immature babies will be taken away from the mother mouse so she can give birth to another litter. Whilst some have great sucess with this I do not agree that this is a good system. For one the mother gets no rest and therefore can easily be worn down and be forced not to care for young and also 3 weeks is only just enough to be fully out of the nest and getting the taste for dry foods, let alone living away from "home" and having to eat dry food. For these reasons it is best to leave the male with the females until they are gravid, then take the young out at 4 weeks old and allow the female 5-7 days of rest and allow her to "restore" then put her back with the male and repeat. This gives her a nice rest in between litters and allows kits to mature properly before being taken away from the mother, studys suggest that the reason alot of people find they have abnormally small mice is because they are not allowed to mature before being taken from the mother and not growing properly. Obviously if you are breeding for pinkies or fuzzys this is irrelevant as you can take out the mice when they are at the right stage (pinkies 1-3 days old, fuzzies 5-7 days old) and leave the male with the female as she will have a good rest between litters. But as for the actual mating its all up to the mice! You may find mice that just wont mate, are infertile or who will kill and eat they're partners however they arn't all common occurences. Mice after 1 year of age are often infertile and ar fed off as feeders. Mice after 5 week old can impregnate and get pregnant. Mice will mate with family members so you should seperate mother and babies at a maximum of 5 weeks.

Care of the young:
This is easy...if your mice are used to being handled. Despite popular belief mice young CAN be handled from day one if the parents are used to you and this helps towards handling when the young are older. Try to base the breeding to have the mother give birth a fed days before cleaning day, this dosent really matter but allows mum to settle with her young before she is interrupted by cleaning. I must stress you absolutely DO NOT need to leave cleaning until the young are old enough to be taken from the mother, if she is used to you handling her simply pick the young up and put them in with mother whilst you clean the cage then put them back before the mother. If they are not used to being handled then take a scoop or cup and scoop the young into it along with a smal amount of the bedding and put them aside somewhere safe, when the tank/tub/cage is cleaned put them back with the small amoutn of bedding. 

Culling of the mice:
There are two main and ways to kill the mice; CO2 and severing of the spinal cord. In pinkies, fuzzies and weaners it is best to use the latter as they have an 'anti-smother' mechagnism to stop them suffocating if the mother lays down on them for feeding, therefore it takes a long painful time for them to die with CO2 however mature rats do best with C02. Pinkies, fuzzies and weaners should have they're spinal cord severed, this can be done with pinkies and fuzzies by taking a blunted kitchen knife and hitting the spine just above the hips and weaners can be killed by taking apencil or screw driver, putting it over the back of the neck, pushing down with that whilst pulling from the base of the tail upward away from the table, this should kill the mouse instantly. With CO2 it is cheapest to make the chamber yourself.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

its my mums falt she ses i have to do it in the shed because shes monry like that (i might be able to peswade her)


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Nah shes just house proud lol.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

lol what about one of these
Buy Garden Wall Store. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

That would work but it is so expensive! Make one yourself, insulate it and put in a window. Probably cost less then that even when alll of that is done.


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## jcuk94 (Nov 21, 2008)

so i could build one the same maybe a little bigger for less than that one?/?


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

jcuk94 said:


> so i could build one the same maybe a little bigger for less than that one?/?


Yeah probably, quite easy aswell.


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## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

Heres some ideas for you:

Get 3 Or More realy usefull box's (RUBS) and fill up with a few inches of sawdust bought from shops.










Drill holes in the top and side to allow good air circulation and hoels for the bottle to sit in.



















Then decide how enriching you want your mice lives to be, i find the better qualitycomes with the better living standards.

E.g: a lower eriches setup like so (Could be used for ill/sick ones):










This is a more enriched filled setups with wheels, toys, hides etc:
(has Free bedding from finleys)










Then replace the Hamsterswith mice :mf_dribble:




















Good luck.

EDIT: For food you could use any commericial foods from cheap to expesive. Sometimes the cheaper food is better. Guinea pig food, ferret food, hamsters food, anything realy. And as for killing them you can use a like air tight tank things, add CO2 or whatever it isand fill it up, they eventully die in a unpainfull death. Or you can pick them up buy there legsand smack them hrd against a hard table/board and they will passout however sometimes you miss and just hurt the mouse.


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Reptilover said:


> Or you can pick them up buy there legsand smack them hrd against a hard table/board and they will passout however sometimes you miss and just hurt the mouse.


Or pull the legs off :blush: *cough, cough*


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## Reptilover (Jan 15, 2007)

LoveForLizards said:


> Or pull the legs off :blush: *cough, cough*


Hmmm Ouuuch :lol2:


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## celicachi (Sep 16, 2009)

does anyone know how to build a gas chamber that uses vinegar and bi carb?


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

celicachi said:


> does anyone know how to build a gas chamber that uses vinegar and bi carb?


 
A back from the dead thread!

I do, but I don't recommend it. Killing mice with CO2 requires getting the levels right to avoid just suffocating the mice(which is inhumane) and I think this is impossible using this method.

Get a gas cannister.

Halfords sell them.


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## celicachi (Sep 16, 2009)

which one is best? is there a difference to argon co2?


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

celicachi said:


> which one is best? is there a difference to argon co2?


Arogon is the wrong gas. It needs to be pure CO2!


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## ghostcornsnake (Jan 30, 2009)

what is argon gas?


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## Grond (Jun 17, 2008)

ghostcornsnake said:


> what is argon gas?


Argon is an inert gas. It has a purpose in welding, but is of no use for dispatching mice humanely.


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## makis (Oct 24, 2009)

Hello everybody. Can someone give an advice, how to stimulate mouse breeding? I have a pair, at about two months, and nothing.. I just can't buy a snake, till they'll breed.


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## Repidge (Jun 17, 2010)

LoveForLizards said:


> Oh and if you care to read it (yes, I know its long but everytime I finished it I kept having to add things to it) this may answer some other questions you might have:
> 
> How to: Feeder breeder: Mice
> 
> ...


 
Good Read, Good Info :2thumb:


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