# Rat Kitten Litter



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

had the pleasure of witnessing my lovely Blue give birth today.

mum and babies doing great and pics to follow.

shocking thing is that it is the smallest litter i have ever seen 5

anyone had smaller?


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Yep, I had a litter of 3 a few months ago 

Fat little buggers they were too!


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

:lol2:


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

They are gorgeous!

Hope mine are just as fat!


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

They should be, they have 12 nipples to choose from! :lol2:


----------



## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> image
> 
> image
> 
> :lol2:


haha look at their bums!! tubby lil beggers them! 

Skye has one spare nipple! so i have 11 fatties! :2thumb: smallest i had years ago was 6 but never had smaller


----------



## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

The smallest I ever had was 2... They were the FATTEST babies I have ever seen *lol*


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

looks like i have 2 girls and 3 boys on very early inspection.

I'll be holding 1 female back, the rest for sale.

came from a RB x RB mating,

I'll be posting pics in classifieds in a few weeks.


----------



## MistressSadako (Jan 17, 2009)

The only "litter" I've had here was from a "foster" doe (who stayed) and she had one very fat, very spoiled little porker.


----------



## Brett (Jul 21, 2009)

LisaLQ said:


> image
> 
> image
> 
> :lol2:


 haha there well cute : victory:


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

Here they are at 7 days old just..










The dark one's are very dark blue not black when seen in the flesh.

going to be interesting how they develop, because my Russian Blues look like British blues until about a year old. So i have decided to not bother to try and classify their colours. They are lovely blues and have the denser Russian coat as they grow!

I love them


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

oh looks like 4 boys and a girl!!!

i'll be keeping the girly, but the boys will be for sale with 3 generations for the buyers to view.


----------



## Brett (Jul 21, 2009)

aw how cute :blush:


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Definitely a couple of colours there. What do the parents carry? Any pics of them?


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

parents carry Russian Blue, Black berkshire, and unknown others.

this line has been really funny and i'm still seeing what it produces.

My russian blues are very blue and only show the browny blue by the time they are about 1 yr old and then on their flanks.

there has been serious debate about their colours and its still undecided.


anyway to give you a shot at it here's a few pics:

Grandma of this litter (Poppy)










Grandad of this litter (Jeremiah)










Dad of this litter (Bluey)












Mum looks like Grandma not got any recent pics of her. In the litter she came from their were a couple of roans and a few blacks


also this litter is a brother sister mating (the only one i'll do)


----------



## Trekky (Feb 4, 2009)

What beautiful likkle rat kittens:flrt:makes me all broody :lol2:Congratulations with the litter. An old friend of mine once had a single baby in a litter. Called him Solo:2thumb:

LisaLQ what beautiful tubby babes yours are as well :2thumb:


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

thanks

my litters are just getting more and more beautiful from this line.


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Reason I asked is because it looks like you have at least one different colour in there, possible dove but it depends on whether there's mink in the lines. Unlikely though unless both grandparents carry mink and passed that on.

Dad looks more british blue on my monitor though, but I'm naff with blues. I wonder if Laura/Spoiled Rat's about and can say whether they are BB or RB and whether babies might be russian silver or dove?

There's nothing wrong with brother/sister matings, ignore the rubbish you hear about "inbreeding" from the uneducated few. Not linebreeding at all is much more dangerous, so I'd be more concerned if you were outcrossing at each litter because you thought you had to.


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Trekky said:


> LisaLQ what beautiful tubby babes yours are as well :2thumb:


Thanks - they're not tubby babies any more, they're tubby grown ups lol.

Summer (our keeper from that litter):


----------



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

They are looking really good! I agree does look like two different blues, which makes me think your russian carry british... and am still convinced Twinkle is British, she never went very dark and kept normal coat, so I'm really tempted to go for the test breed when I breed her.

Bluey does look very British blue to me, and poss Poppy although she is quite dark so not sure!

Looking forward to seeing how these develop!


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

I thought russian blues couldn't carry british?

Poppy, who is now nearly 18mths definately has the russian coat, but i agree dad and grandad don't have those coats.

I was thinking silver or dove as well

I only put that about brother sister mating, out of anxiety i'd get a load of abuse! 

i'll be keeping a female from this litter and breeding back to the father (bluey) or his brother (as i still have him and he looks exactly the same)

this line is hilarious cos there has been so much debate!

i'd love it if they were dove, but what i know is that there are 2 blue variants.

all opinions more than welcome! its great fun this, every litter i have it will be guess the baby.

If you mate Twinkle then we'll have more info!

good job i don't breed for showing!




P.s anyone want to come and see them in the flesh you are more than welcome, babies ready in 5wks!


----------



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes its very interesting, also frustrating lol!

I have some blues I believe are British, but one is quite dark, and dad carried both blues so not sure.

I just have to decide on a mate for Twinkle.

I have an agouti hood carrying blue - which I believe to be British (see Bumble and Bee). Don;t know if he carries Russian.
I have a cinnamon carrying russian - slight poss also carrying British.
Or black carrying both which wouldn't help at all lol.

The cinnamon has best temperament so would like to use him really.... decisions....



shiprat said:


> I thought russian blues couldn't carry british?
> 
> Poppy, who is now nearly 18mths definately has the russian coat, but i agree dad and grandad don't have those coats.
> 
> ...


----------



## allsortsofrodents (Oct 20, 2008)

Gorgeous dumbo's :2thumb:

You are the only one I can find with blues, sooo sweet :flrt:
sending pm


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

ok looking at rat genetics, russian blue is caused by a pair of seprate recessive genes rb/rb

british blue is caused by a pair of recessive genes d/d (gene for dilution)

so it is poss for a rat to carry both a single d and a single rb, thus if matched by mating show either blues.

this is where my logic is up to, but i could be getting this very wrong.

i reckon i have british blues now.

as for the babies of this litter i could have bred both blues, potentially.


----------



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree lol



shiprat said:


> ok looking at rat genetics, russian blue is caused by a pair of seprate recessive genes rb/rb
> 
> british blue is caused by a pair of recessive genes d/d (gene for dilution)
> 
> ...


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

I think in the first mating Jeremiah (carries british blue) x Poppy (rb)

so parents of this litter are british blue carrying russian

so 2 types of blue babies!

makes sense, could be wildly inaccurate, i'm rubbish with genetics always was.

I just do my breeding the old fashioned way before genetics were discovered it goes.

'Thats a nice coloured, healthy and friendly rat, hey here's another nice friendly healthy rat of the same colour!'

lolz


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)




----------



## allsortsofrodents (Oct 20, 2008)

:2thumb: Thanks Matt - I can't wait now lol


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

just had a really insightful suggestion about these guys genetics

see if this makes sense

Poppy is a russian blue - Jeremiah British blue carrier 

The blues in their offspring were british blue carrying rb (so bluey and and his sister are british blue carrying rb) (for Redgex Twinkle is BB)

so their mating produces (this litter) british blue and kittens holding all blue genes

The paler one's are russian silver; russian silver are kittens holding both blue genes.
The darker are british blue.

this makes sense to what i am seeing


----------



## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Interesting stuff.

The darker ones are British Blue by the looks of it. The paler ones.....dont look that Blue really, more Minky!

I mean they could be Russian Silver....as the tone of the photo is off quite a bit (sorry shiprat!)

Russian Silver and Russian Blue Babies in a litter...all 22 of them!


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

cheers Minerva for excellent photos again

you are very right that the lighting in the photo is very off.

they do look more like you silvers in the flesh and proper light.

I'll be taking more pics next week of course and do it in proper lighting.

Your babies are amazing as usual!

P.s my only wish now is to get a lovely rex buck, blue agouti rex mmmmmmmm


----------



## Minerva (Aug 24, 2008)

Don't think poppy is Mink, but don't forget all sorts can be carried for generations and generations....so your rats could carry mink...who knows lol.

The silvers i posted above weren't meant to happen...i knew BB was carried on dads side, but mums pedigree was way off and no mention of BB occurring even with close inbreeds! So Russian silver was quite a shock when i crossed 2 unrelated lines!

Damn recessives haha.

Decent daylight pics of bubs are needed, spam us with pictures :lol2:
P.S Shiprat....i have some Russian Blue Agouti rex bucks here from a breeder who gave me some pregnant does back. Theyre related to my Russians, and thus carry BB, Siamese, Mink, and every other damn thing under the sun it seems lol...thats the only downside.


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

This is what dove(ish) rats look like as babies (the majority of these actually turned out to be russian pearl, but as it's pretty much the same thing with a white undercoat, it'll do for comparison):

Mink/DPPs (darker) and dove/russian pearl:









Dove


















Dove (solid fella) and russian pearl (specklies)









Two doves and a russian pearl









Dove









Dove is russian blue + mink, so both parents would have to _be_ or be _carrying_ russian blue and mink.


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

from those pics Lisa, mine are not dove

I'll spam with pics in the next few days and everyone can have a go at colours! lolz

good to know now i have british blue and it could be mink.

I'm so glad i'm not even attempting to breed for show lol, it would do my nut it.

recessives are a nightmare ! they pop up when least expected.

anyone got a rex buck? that's a dominant gene i know i'll get 50% rex, sod the colour lolz

no seriously i want a rex buck!

thanks everyone so far there has been progress from last year!


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

allsortsofrodents said:


> Gorgeous dumbo's :2thumb:
> 
> You are the only one I can find with blues, sooo sweet :flrt:
> sending pm


Both russian blue and british blue are quite commonly available, certainly not rare - try emailing [email protected] for a list of breeders


----------



## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

shiprat said:


> good to know now i have british blue and it could be mink.


I dont think you have any mink babies, but my computer screen is pretty rubbish sometimes.


----------



## storm22 (Jan 11, 2009)

oooh keep spamming with baby pics makes me go all gooey every time :flrt:


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

ok piccies, in daylight, hope they are ok? my camera isn't great. One of the babies has one red eye again, happened in the last litter (RedGex's Twinkle).


----------



## *steph* (Feb 8, 2010)

awwwww so gawjuss!!!! not aloud anymore animals i've been told by the OH lol xx:censor:


----------



## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Awww another odd-eye..??!!! :flrt: I bet it's a boy too isn't it...!


----------



## shiprat (Mar 16, 2009)

ohh can't remember gender now, think its the girl actually... thats strange lol

i had a look at gender today, its either 4 boys, 1 girl, or 3 boys 2 girls. One of them can't make its mind up yet! lolz


----------



## allsortsofrodents (Oct 20, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> Both russian blue and british blue are quite commonly available, certainly not rare - try emailing [email protected] for a list of breeders


I wasn't suggesting it was a rare colour, just that there are no dumbo breeders near me, all miles away 

I'm having 2 off Shiprat when ready & getting courier to pick up & deliver :2thumb:


----------



## allsortsofrodents (Oct 20, 2008)

shiprat said:


> ohh can't remember gender now, think its the girl actually... thats strange lol
> 
> i had a look at gender today, its either 4 boys, 1 girl, or 3 boys 2 girls. One of them can't make its mind up yet! lolz


Gorgeous pictures, haven't a clue on the colours all just gorgeous, squidgy bubba's  want them all now :lol2:
A bb & rs - cool!!


----------

