# The Enigma Syndrome Study ~ TESS ~ The Results



## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

The results of The Enigma Syndrome Study ~ TESS are now available for members of RFUK to read. I apologise for the delay in these long awaited results. Since the data submission phase of the study completed in July 2012 my personal circumstances, commitments and health problems meant the study was placed on hold (although not forgotten) for quite some time. I thank you all for your patience.

This is the first draft of the results so if you spot any major errors please let me know in pm. I need to spend a bit of time tidying it up and hope that it will be published as a follow up to the two previous articles in PRK. Please remember this is not a scientific study. Its written by a hobbyist for hobbyists. It does not address the nature of Enigma Syndrome but looks at incidence and severity of symptoms along with understanding and awareness amongst Enigma keepers.

Please can I ask that discussion relating to Enigmas is kept off this thread. I will be opening another thread that will hopefully facilitate discussion and include a survey regarding the continuation of Enigma breeding. Please can this thread be kept strictly for the purpose of publishing the results. 

Please can I ask that for the time being links to the study arent posted anywhere else. This is because of the possibility of formal publication. However many of the respondents are from RFUK so its reasonable to share the results here first.

Could I please ask that the Mods remove the previously stickied threads relating to the study and if they feel appropriate sticky this one in its place.

For now, thankyou to all who have participated in the study and thankyou to all who have offered their valuable help and support throughout its course.

Please click the link below to read the results in full.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0t289ailfxz2wuu/The%20Enigma%20Syndrome%20Study%20Result%20write%20up.docx


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## Fromscaredtoaddicted (Nov 6, 2012)

*thank you*

than you for this,very useful, we just got our first enigma gecko 3 weeks ago as was missold as a blizzard, i think shes maybe stage 3 or 4. but this was very helpful as not much info out there really about them tbh.


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## Rawwwrchazli (Mar 16, 2012)

Absolutely brilliant, Mal. Lots of things in there for people/breeders to think about.

And CONGRATULATIONS on getting this finished and available to us all 

I'm sure it's going to help a lot of owners properly understand their animal.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks, glad you found it an interesting read. Please pay a visit to the discussion thread.

Please could I ask that if any of the older members still have contact with MrMike they let him know about the thread. Im not sure if he still uses the number I have for him. He played a big part in getting the study underway so it would be nice to make the results available to him. Sadly he doesnt visit the forum very often.


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## SleepyD (Feb 13, 2008)

Mal said:


> Please could I ask that if any of the older members still have contact with MrMike they let him know about the thread. Im not sure if he still uses the number I have for him. He played a big part in getting the study underway so it would be nice to make the results available to him. Sadly he doesnt visit the forum very often.


have sent him a message hun with the link to this thread ~ hopefully he'll get it : victory:


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

SleepyD said:


> have sent him a message hun with the link to this thread ~ hopefully he'll get it : victory:


*sneaks in through the back door*

Awesome Mal, Gald you've put it all together! We need to catch up, my numbers the same


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Mel. Hopefully he will put in an appearance. Hes another sadly missed member.


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

MrMike said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by SleepyD
> 
> ...





_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Darn silly phone. Fantastic to see you on here Mike. Its time you were back amongst the regulars. We need a catch up. Please can you pm me your number. Only here a second as I need to start feeding gang. A big thankyou for your help though Mike. The study wouldnt have even started without you. Catch up soon.All the best.


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

Mal said:


> Darn silly phone. Fantastic to see you on here Mike. Its time you were back amongst the regulars. We need a catch up. Please can you pm me your number. Only here a second as I need to start feeding gang. A big thankyou for your help though Mike. The study wouldnt have even started without you. Catch up soon.All the best.
> 
> 
> _Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


Done.

no worries mate, You did all the hard work :2thumb:


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Thanks Mal, I have only read through some of it, though I now have somethign to pick up on for night time reading. : victory:


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

My lads have just returned from town and excitedly handed me a copy of the May edition of PRK...on the shelves now. The study results are now out in print


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## Abercrombiezombie (Mar 16, 2013)

Some interesting fact there, well done for having the energy to put it all together.

Of course, what didnt help at the time the enigma syndrome broke the surface was all those 'breeders' who got a mortgage on the latest morph and bred it with almost everything they owned, including the kitchen sink, in order to recoup the 'investment'

Well done to the community at large for bringing it into the open, even though I rather suspect a well known breeder using a 'mule' to get to another breeder was not maybe the best way !


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Im lost at the meaning of the last paragraph in your post. Are you implying I have used the study to get at another breeder ? The only reference to any named breeder was the morphs creator and RTs comment relating to the Enigma gene being a morph enhancer. I would be extremely concerned if it appeared the study was some device to have a go at another breeder. I do mention that it is claimed by someone that mild ES is consided to be a small price to pay for the stunning animal but I do not state who it is makes that claim although its posted on the breeders website.
I thank you for your positive comments but would be grateful if you could clarify your meaning in the last paragraph. It has never been our intent to discredit or damage the interests of any breeder be it hobbyist or the biggest name.


_Posted from Reptileforums.co.uk App for Android_


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

_*Well done to the community at large for bringing it into the open, even though I rather suspect a well known breeder using a 'mule' to get to another breeder was not maybe the best way !
23-03-2013 03:30 PM*_

I really am quite upset regarding the insinuation of the above post so have just re read the results posted on here via the link, the full results article published in PRK and discussed the above with the rest of the GG Gang. We are at a complete loss regarding the insinuation in the post above. If it is directed at us, I am extremely concerned. We went to considerable effort to ensure no breeder of Enigmas was named in the study other than the name of the Morph creator and the description of the Morph from the worlds leading gecko breeders website. I refer to two breeders contacting us regarding them considering their Enigmas, as result of the study, unsalable but they were not named. As it happens, we dont even know their names. I didnt ask but simply pointed them to the data submission pages in case they wanted to include their animals. It has* NEVER* been our intent to cause damage or to disrespect the efforts of any breeder. We have simply attempted to convey the results to fellow hobbyists and in doing so have highlighted areas of concern relating to the welfare of Enigmas and their owners. We have asked breeders of Enigmas to do what we have done regarding our own Enigma breeding project, that is to step back and have a rethink. I would be deeply disappointed if our time and efforts, the time and efforts of those submitting the data and the efforts of the editorial team at PRK were regarded as means to have a go at ANY breeder.


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## loonymoony (Oct 22, 2009)

*what does that mean??*



AbercrombieZombie said:


> Well done to the community at large for bringing it into the open, even though I rather suspect a well known breeder using a 'mule' to get to another breeder was not maybe the best way !



*What does this mean????
If Mal is correct and this is an accusation or slander aimed at Mal and the GG family, questioning their 'honesty/integrity' and the massive amount of hard work and committment they put into the study, so that we all had a better understanding of the Enigma issues, then you are so very wrong and quite frankly I am at a loss as to how any such 'mind set' was ever achieved. 
Mal and his family are well known on here and in the reptile community as a whole, for their Honesty/Integrity, genuiness and warmth and perhaps above all else just how much they always seek to put back into the hobby & aid others, be that helping all the many new keepers that come on here with issues/problems, both in thread replies, pms/emails and even phone calls or openly sharing tips/info with established breeders to help them better their own husbandry/ projects. They are an incredibly supportive and friendly family. There are few on here that are thought of so highly and have such a well deserved reputation, I really hope that is some kind of 'mis communication'.*


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## jools (Apr 4, 2009)

Just read the PRK article - very well written. Clear and concise - accessible to both experienced keepers and newbies alike. 

I also have absolutely NO idea what Abercrombiezombie is alluding to. It had better no be an aspersion on Mals reputation. Perhaps they can clarify what they mean.


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## Abercrombiezombie (Mar 16, 2013)

Sorry for the delayed reply, email hackers restricted access.

Let me set the record straight, my last paragraph of my post on 26th DOES NOT refer to Mal....and yes, I guess I could have worded it differently, so apologies for that.

The ES first hit the 'news' when a 'mule' was enticed to 'whip up a storm' . This was way before Mal took up the challenge to look into it.

I consider Mal to be in the 'community' that took the bull by the horns and done something, instead of one of those whom took to throwing insults around.

I am sure Mal will remember at the time there was talk of someone who KNEW of the problem but continued to breed and sell. the Mule I refer to was a puppet of a different breeder who wanted to 'bring it out into the open'

IMHO Mal has taken a hot potato and invested a lot of time into producing some details that PROVE ES is real, and thus raises the original question of should they be bred from.


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## geckograham (Jan 22, 2012)

Abercrombiezombieagain said:


> Sorry for the delayed reply, email hackers restricted access.
> 
> Let me set the record straight, my last paragraph of my post on 26th DOES NOT refer to Mal....and yes, I guess I could have worded it differently, so apologies for that.
> 
> ...


Well that's as clear as mud then! I'm not liking anything about this poster, from the loaded remarks to the multiple accounts. Just doesn't seem right!


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Abercrombiezombieagain said:


> Sorry for the delayed reply, email hackers restricted access.
> 
> Let me set the record straight, my last paragraph of my post on 26th DOES NOT refer to Mal....and yes, I guess I could have worded it differently, so apologies for that.
> 
> ...


Im afraid Im none the wiser to what your referring to but thankyou for clarifying it wasnt directed at me. I have heard so many rumours and whispers about the goings on in the early days of Enigmas that I take much with a pinch of salt. The number of times Ive heard 'I was one of the breeders involved with outcrossing the first Enigmas released' became rather amusing. The original group must have been very prolific. None of it had any relevance to the study so it was 'in one ear and out the other'.

The important thing here as far as Im concerned is that the ' insinuation' wasnt aimed at me. Ive tried to avoid any finger pointing, criticism or blame regarding the ES situation. I value my reputation for integrity and honesty and something that appeared to bring that into question upset me quite badly. Im relieved that element of things is cleared up and thankyou for that.

Thankyou Lunar and Jools for your words of defence. I had deliberately avoided further comment on the thread until I knew what was going on. Your words meant a lot to me though.


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## Abercrombiezombie (Mar 16, 2013)

Mal said:


> The number of times Ive heard 'I was one of the breeders involved with outcrossing the first Enigmas released' became rather amusing. The original group must have been very prolific.


I have just replied to your pm, and again will say openly that I had no intention of referring to you in what I said, just ham fisted, so apologies.

With regard to the 'original group' I dont think theres any left around breeding so that says it all really.


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## Goja (Oct 4, 2012)

My SHT often chase her tail, got bad aim, got problem to shed, is a bad eater... All the symptoms of an enigma. Though it doesn't look like an enigma. How do you call it then..? 

Sent from my GT-I9100


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Goja said:


> My SHT often chase her tail, got bad aim, got problem to shed, is a bad eater... All the symptoms of an enigma. Though it doesn't look like an enigma. How do you call it then..?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100


A gecko can have a neurological deficit without being an enigma.It can present with symptoms similar to ES. Unless it is carrying the enigma gene though it cant be classified as ES.

Numerous problems can cause neurological symptoms in reptiles. If your gecko is displaying abnormal behavior it might be worth getting a vet to check it over. It might also be worth posting a picture of your gecko just to be sure it isnt an enigma, they arent always that obvious.


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## Goja (Oct 4, 2012)

She's just a strait SHT...

Sent from my GT-I9100


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## Goja (Oct 4, 2012)

Will the babies automatically get the same neurological issues? 

Swyped from Tapatalk (with mistakes surely)!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Ok so I may be shitting the bed a little here but here goes...

So I have a Tremper Albino Leo,

I'm not really clued up on morphs and the effects of enigma breeding (well at least until 5 minutes ago). My knowledge goes as far as knowing the names but that's literally as far as it goes. 

Now after reading this study I saw that my Tremper Albino is on the first table... Does this mean he is an enigma? Are all albinos enigmas? 

Please excuse my ignorance but I want to understand and learn as much about my little guy as possible.

Assuming he is..., 

Does this video I took a few nights back mean he's star gazing? I've never seen him do it before certainly for this length of time - I put it down to the camera being stuck in his face (pretty much) However after browsing through that study it almost sadly made sense - He does like to watch my laptop screen but shortly after does a runner...

If he is he must be a really low score

Django my Tremper Albino Leopard Gecko - YouTube

Any help appreciated!


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## Alpine (May 8, 2013)

Ok after a little more reading, I'm under the impression he's not an enigma, they seem to have orange eyes and no black.

So I think unless I'm mistaken I've made myself look a little daft but answered my own question lol.


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## Mal (Jul 22, 2007)

Alpine said:


> Ok after a little more reading, I'm under the impression he's not an enigma, they seem to have orange eyes and no black.
> 
> So I think unless I'm mistaken I've made myself look a little daft but answered my own question lol.


Dont worry about it but no, having already seen pictures of your gecko, hes not an Enigma. It would have been daft to sit wondering and worrying if he was or wasnt and not making efforts to find out. You havent made yourself look daft at all by clarifying things...even though you answered your own question.


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## doli (Feb 27, 2009)

Good work Mal. Very useful reading. Congrats!


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## SabreRose (Oct 7, 2011)

Was this study ever formally published?
Would like to use this as my short presentation in my herp degree but that's only possible if it was in a journal or something. =(


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