# help please...pond pumps and filtration questions



## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i have a 4500L pond pump, and a 2000L pond pump, im hoping to use the 4500L one to run a pressure filter, but i have no idea which filter to go for, the 2000L i may just keep as emergency back up in case something happens to the other bigger pump. ive been scouring ebay and there are so many to choose from. so, i figured someone on here may know what to do.

the pond will measure approx 11ftx7ftx3ft, maybe a bit more. i already have an easyclear 6000 to run in there which i will be running alongside whatever else i get to filter this pond. 

it is in direct sunlight.

it will most likely end up with fairly high stocking of comets, commons and shubunkin goldfish, no koi will be in there, not sure if that makes a difference.

i would rather over filter than risk underfiltering, and i want the pressure filter to have UV. i am a bit limited on price, but can save for a larger one over the next month or so. i just need to know what i am really ideally needing for this set-up. it will have a few pond lilies in there but other than that and a ton of pond weed it wont have any plants. 

any help hugely welcomed :2thumb:


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## Morgan Freeman (Jan 14, 2009)

Direct sunlight! Can you not move it?


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## chewy86 (Mar 12, 2009)

Having no koi makes a massive differance mate. Morgan is right direct sunlight isnt ideal for water quality or the fishes health. If you have no other choice for pond situe, you want at minimum a covered area for the fish to shade, even a large lilly pad area.

With filters its all about how much you want to spend and what outcome you want. If you just want clearish water, and your having no koi get something like this 

Oasis Clear Pond 80 + Air - Oasis Clear Pond Filters - Oasis

If you want crystal clear water you will be spending allot more on one of these options

KLK 16000+K1 Multi chamber Koi pond filter upt 7500gals | eBay

Evolution Aqua Nexus Eazy 210 Koi Pond Filter

Koi Water Garden for great koi and the Econobead filter system plus a range of related dry goods

Pond Uv Clarifiers - Absolute Koi

All of the above options have differant models to suit differant pond volumes, and if you want to go even further you could get

Koi Pond Filters Estro Sieve

Bakki Showers - Homepage

And bottom drain fed systems have advantage over pump fed also 

Yamitsu Sump Bottom Drain | Pond & Koi Supplies

With a bakki shower, bead filter, sieve and uv setup on your pond your water will be crystal clear also the ph, nitrate, nitrite and other levels will be spot on.

Im guessing you will go for the first option with it just being 1-2quid goldfish and not less hardy expensive koi. What ever you do, do not over pump the filter as you will lose performance or under pump either as you want the ponds water cycling as often as possible. Water quality is at its best, when your whole ponds water voulme passes through your filtration setup every 1-2hours preferably.

Gav.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

im planning on having the lily pad area, a few lilies in baskets so they can provide the shade, it will be in full sunlight for about half the day, the house shades it for the rest. im also thinking of building some kind of planters around the main sunny edge to have some larger tall plants growing which will help shade the pond too but that wont be straight away. 

definitely no koi, only rescued goldfish, i daresay a lot will be stunted too. just looking for the pond to be healthily filtered, and preferably no bad green water. i was looking at the pressure filters as they can be buried out of the way so wont take away from the look of the pond. im not fussed if it is crystal clear, would obviously like to be able to see the fish though. unfortunately we cant put the pond anywhere else in the garden due to drainage systems etc. 

i was looking at the Jebao 8000 UVC pressurised filter. It says up to 10000L lightly stocked or no fish, so im guessing about 5000L with goldfish. would this be ok to be run with the 4500L pump? i know if it goes through too fast the UV wont be as effeective, too slow and it wont filter as much as it could do. 

I think the one im most interested in is the Lotus green genie pf10000 pressure filter and UV. max pond volume 10000L, max flow rate 5000, 9W UV and min pump size 2000. this seems to me to be perfect for the 4500L pump i have on the pond which will be approx 6500L depending on how the digging goes. 

whatever i get i will still be running the easyclear 6000 alongside it.


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## GarethSticky (Dec 5, 2007)

I did quite a bit of research on filters when building my pond. I was initially going to get a pressurised canister filter but was advised against it. They cannot handle the volumes of water that they state and will require constant cleaning.

I decided to go with a nexus eazy pod in the end.
Koi Pond Filters | Buy Eazy Pod | Evolution Aqua Ltd
I managed to pick up a second hand one for £200 and was like new. The only bad point I would say is the size but I am now building a cover for mine. Having said that whatever filter you chose will be fairly large due to the size of your pond.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

For a 4500 pump you want to go for a pressurised filter aimed at between 5500 and 6500 liters.

Only other thing i can say is, it will be well worth gonig for a well known filter if yu want easy access to spare parts, sponges etc because if yu go for a product that your LFS doesnt deal with, if you have an emergency, it will take a will for spare parts to be delivered when you have to order them online 

Just a thought as products like Lotus and Greengenie arent so popular any more and are drifting out to the smaller independant stores and in the up coming years, will probably become harder to get parts for.

Might be nothing but is just a thought  Hozelock Bioforce 5500 would work  or Laguna 5000...

For your smaller pump, you can always use it to run water through a seperate UV Steralizer  It would be powerful enough that you could run a pretty powerful steralizer, that will keep your pond clear  but never mind that, thats work for later


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

so much to choose between :lol2: who would think a filter would be so difficult to choose!? have hit a snag with the pond dig, and now have lost some of the volume due to a drainage overflow pipe running 6" below the ground, so now the pond will have a 2.5ft wide shelf along the left side the full width of the pond. it has reduced the volume to approx 5500L according to my calculations and the help of a pond calculator (worked it out as 2 separate rectangular ponds and added them together)


i was thinking of possibly having a gravity filter now inside the pond sitting on the shelf, but not sure how this would work or how it would look. 

oh my god, im so overwhelmed with all of this! so my options are-

run a gravity filter with UV with the 4500 pump

run a pressurised filter with UV with the 4500 pump

run a gravity filter with the 4500 pump and a uv with the 2000 pump

run a pressurised filter with the 4500 pump and a uv with the 2000 pump

the pond will be between 5500L-6000L, in the sun, with a stock of goldfish but no koi. with the shelf i will now have i will be having some plants planted in the pond along with the few water lilies in the deeper end. the pond will have an easyclear 6000 running on it aswell. 

money is an issue, i dont mind going for pre-used stuff, but i will only have around £120 to buy the new filter, unless i run the pond with the single rescue fish i have right now needing it with just the easyclear filtering it until i can get the new filter in a month-6weeks.


you know when you start something then wish you hadnt.......:bash:


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## SkinheadOi85 (Sep 28, 2008)

Be well worth it in the end goldie..u taking pics along the way???


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

i know, it just seems to be too much for the old brain at the moment :lol2: i need someone to say 'here, buy this, it will work wonders' :2thumb:

yes im taking pics along the way. will make a new thread at some point, the pics are on my phone at the moment and i dont know where the lead is.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Hehe fun and games 

Ok, your pond is bigger than i was thinking.

Your choice between pressurised and gravity is going to depend on a few things, mainly... where will the filter go?

Forgetting the UV for now, I would go with the pressurised filter canister to match your pump 5500-6000 will be needed for a pump that size. But you can run a pond on that, especially with the Easyclear backing it up 

Later, I would get something like Hozelocks Ecopower+ 2500 or 5000 and run it on your smaller pump, because thinking about it, with a UV in the EasyClear, a UV on the pressurised unit, you dont need a huge seperate uv unit  

I would keep all sponges in the pressure filter (later on this is) and fill the gravity box running on the smaller pump with loads of plastic biomedia. The biomedia wont need cleaning so often so will make it easier having it in a seperate filter.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

right, this sounds easier to me :lol2: im totally stressing about this, no idea why as im in no hurry! i read somewhere about a 5500-6000 pressure filter needing a max flow rate of something like 2500, so wouldnt the 4500 be overkill? i dont mind running a bigger pressure filter off of the 4500, its going to be buried beside the pond at the back, or thats the theory. then i could have a smaller gravity filter on the shelf in the pond. im also considering a 2nd easyclear 6000 in there too, i like to run multiple smaller filters instead of 1 larger one just incase of breakdowns. hence the multiple filters in my tanks inside, im paranoid that we would be broke when i need to replace one :gasp:


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

I am guessing that will depend on the capabilities of each individual pressurised unit?

Hmm it does vary.

What make is your pump? If going by Laguna, they use a 3500 pump for their 5000 unit and a 6000 pump for their 8000 so yours is in between. Better to go for a lower filter to match your pump so you can put a tap in and slow flo if needed, you cant make pump stronger if it isnt strong enough...


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## Graylord (Jul 17, 2007)

Id just go for a black plastic loft tank fill it with anything you can get your hands on alfagrog,hair rollers anything that bacteria can colonize.Then just have your pump spray water into the box i would also but a layer of gravel in the bottom of the pond as this will aid your filtration no end.
If you are using the uv to keep the water clear then ok but don`t bother buying one if you think its going to aid you fishes health you would need a bank of dozens to have any effect on pathogens.

Uv is the most oversold nonsense sold to aquarists nowadays ,unless you get the wattage and pass rate just right then they are a waste of money.


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

> Uv is the most oversold nonsense sold to aquarists nowadays ,unless you get the wattage and pass rate just right then they are a waste of money.


I dont really agree, but it depends on who is selling it. Having a UV to healp clear the water is one thing, but to have a full on UV Steralizer is something different. Having one little 9w bulb on 6000 wont do much but keep it clear, to steralize it would e something more like six 55w bulbs or something mad. But having UVs does help clear the water and the more UVs, the clearer the water will be. Hell if you want *really* clear water you could find an Ozoniser(sp) LOL

But tbh I dont hear anyone trying to sell the UVs as a steralizer or anything other than to clear the pond in this case as it has been stated that it will be in direct sunlight...

Btw i think adding gravel to the bottom of a pond is the worst thing anyone can do unless the pond is raised and in a sloping garden so you can gravel clean. It would hold so much dirt and harbour so much bacteria!? Would be impossible to keep clean, though would look good at first.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ok, the UV i was hoping would help keep the water clearer, all fish will go into quarantine before going into the pond so i planning on using the UV to kill off any nasties. its just that the pond is going to get a lot of sun so i am hoping the UV will help with this.

i am planning on the following...point out anything i may be thinking that wont work. the easyclear will be in the bottom of the pond, at 3ft deep. the 4500 pump (which is made by sunsun so im guessing not a brilliant one, the 2500 pump is a yamitsu) will also be in the bottom of the pond, head up and out to the pressure filter, then the outlet hose of the pressure filter i was thinking i could have a length of the hose, blocked at the end and have a series of holes drilled along the hose to make a kind of spraybar effect with the water going across the back of the shelf which im planning on filling with gravel. would this make the same effect as having a small gravity filter full of media? i would think the gravel on the shelf will hold a fair amount of bacteria as its around 2.5ftx7ft so quite a large surface area.

i was considering putting the gravel in the pond on the bottom level too, again to keep a large surface area. surely even if its bare bottom the debris will still drop, although i guess the pumps will collect it more easily if the bottom is bare. 

so the 4500L pump is a sunsun pump. never heard if them before but it certainly shifts a lot of water. when we bought it we were told it wasnt working and we bought that and the 2000L yamitsu pump as they wouldnt split them. now both are working.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ooh, just as a side note here, about 2ft from the side of the pond we have a man hole so there isnt really any reason we couldnt do a normal gravel vac in there from time to time straight down the man hole to give us the drop we would need for the syphon :2thumb:


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Having gravel will make sure the pumps dont clear it as well as they ought to and you wont be able to just net out all the leaves and sludge, its a personal choice though. As for gravel on the shelf... im not entirely sure?!


I dont know sunsun pumps, i know OF them, but not what they are rated at, would still aim for a filter rated at 6000 liters, give or take a few...

Graven cleaning down a drain is hard  the pipe has to be lower than the pond to start the siphon, could be done, put one end down the drain and the other over one of the pumps and once the pipe is full, keeping it under water, put gravel vac on the pipe and off you go.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

the pipe would be lower, by at least 2 ft, its a deep drain. we use it to drain the fish tanks into aswell. its got to be worth a go either way :2thumb: i really like the idea of gravel as goldfish love to dig through it looking for snacks :lol2: i want them to have as interesting a life as possible. Im always faffing around with my tanks so going out and keeping check of leaves/debris collecting wont be an issue for me. Im looking forward to it actually.....


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

Yea but are you going down the hole to get it siphoning??  (though will admit to doing similarly strange things to avoid heavy buckets! LOL)

I love the idea of having gravel in the pond but i just know it would be really impractical, i'd get sick of it very quickly  its onething gravel cleaning a tank every week.... but a pond? I think id get so sick of it that i just wouldnt enjoy it.


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

Just a thought, goldfish do love rooting around through gravel, so wouldn't that help to stir it up and keep it a bit cleaner if they're constantly pushing it around all over the place? 

Goldie, I think rescuing goldfish like this is such a lovely idea! Cos I'm the "fish person" :lol2: I sometimes get calls from my mates to take fish people don't want anymore for whatever reason, if I hear of any goldfish do u want me to message you?


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

ah i see what you mean, getting the syphon going, my gravel vac is a giant sized one and its got a valve which flicks up and down as you jiggle the vac in the water to get the syphon going :2thumb: i wouldnt need to sit in the sewer :lol2:


i will be going with gravel, the goldfish will stir it up plenty and il do a gravel vac once in a while to keep the debris down. i think it will provide enrichment for the fish, which is why im doing this all to start with. 

christie-zxr yes please, im happy to take in any comets, common or shubunkin goldfish. no koi though, unless they are ok for me to find them a new home when i find one suitable. im sure we could arrange for them to be couriered to me if they are too far for collection aswell.


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## goldie1212 (Mar 5, 2010)

pond liner just arrived...paid for 6mx5m and been sent 6mx6m. may dig a little deeper...if i can convince hubby its a good idea :lol2:


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## Moogloo (Mar 15, 2010)

sweeeeeeeeet


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## Christie_ZXR (May 14, 2011)

No problem. I'll give you a shout if any come up


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