# selling mixed breed dogs for more than pedigrees rant



## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

just been looking on the internet for dogs as i might be moving house soon and hope to get one, and i cant believe the ammount of mixed breeds people are trying to sell for redicuous prices with silly names. i found a pug cross cavalier king charles spaniel called 'pugaliers' and they were looking for just under £400 a peice for these yet on the same page 2 full blood rottweilers for just £250 together? fair dos if you class it as pug x cavalier king charles spaniel.. but pugalier? whats that all about? liscence to add a couple more hundred quid? i have a few examples..

pets, dogs, pug - Goole, East Yorkshire - pugalier puppies ready now. pugalier... - AGJATGJTM
pets, dogs, crossbreeds - Goole, East Yorkshire - Pugalier puppy. 4 month Female... - AGDMWMGMG
pets, dogs - S****horpe, Lincolnshire - Cockapoo puppies, mother... - AGJMAGTAM
one lovely shihpoo male pup | S****horpe Dogs for sale | Male Poodle | 2655852809 | Oodle
pets, dogs, crossbreeds - Hull, East Yorkshire - schoodle puppies. Beautiful schoodle... - AGDPDTAMA

i think its bloody pathetic considering the prices of stunning pedigree dogs..

Find puppies in U.K. for free, Find a breeder, Sell puppies for free
pedigree doberman puppies for sale | Willerby Dogs for sale | Male Doberman Pinscher | 2633132173 | Oodle
mini poodle puppies | S****horpe Dogs for sale | Miniature Poodle|Poodle | 2647528004 | Oodle
pets, dogs, dogue-de-bordeaux - S****horpe, Lincolnshire - Dogue de bordeaux puppies stunning.... - AGJDTJWTJ


cough* 
rant over :lol2: will someone just enlighten me?


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

in some cases i think its a bit silly... but in some cases it can be justified...
My dog is a cross (technically) but is part of a grander scheme to improve the bulldog... so in this case i think its probably ok...
i know what you mean though...
it all started with puggles and labradoodles..LOL


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

they are designer dogs dont you know..........:bash::cussing:

stupid.... they are just x breds........ gets on my nervs.

there are chalkies for sale on the works board 800 each.......


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

mental.

i can see the point of labradoodle and springerdors, cause they have a purpose, but the small yapper types i dont get.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> in some cases i think its a bit silly... but in some cases it can be justified...
> *My dog is a cross (technically) but is part of a grander scheme to improve the bulldog... so in this case i think its probably ok...*
> i know what you mean though...
> it all started with puggles and labradoodles..LOL


Like you said, that's justified, as are other breedings, I think there was one where dalmatians and pointers where bred together to rid dalmatians of a certain hereditary gene, though I could be wrong.
Personally the whole mongrel naming thing doesn't bother me, people can buy what they want, If thats a mongrel with a stupid name then that's fine, but I'll stick to my GSDs


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## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

in my knowlege the labradoodle was bred for people visually impared ect who are allergic to dogs as they dont molt and cause as much of a reaction, in which case i can understand completley as they are bred for a valid reason.
i wouldnt pay for a mix breed that was part of a project to improve a breed as id still consider it as a mix breed and although they are brilliant dogs to keep and can suffer less health problems i just wouldnt do it. 

i just think the price tags are silly now, the only reason id consider paying it would be for a papered dog to show or breed as a possible investment as well as a pet.. or because i want a specific breed thats not over bred, for example im debating an american bulldog and because they arnt so popular and i want a younger dog id pay more for one x


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## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

its not the selling of crossbreeds that bothers me as much but the fact people are trying to make out they are a 'new breed' or something. just because they mix the names together doesnt warrent the prices. and what the hell is a chalkie? lol 
although i do think bull shitz are ammusing i wouldnt buy one for the price tags..


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## Zohan-zee (May 27, 2011)

I brought a bull-boxer couple of weeks back they sold all the others for £350.00 which i was amazed people had paid, I did get her alot cheaper than this but i must say she is an amazing, clever loving dog which i would say she would of been worth every penny. But on the other hand ive seen collies x for upto £400 which is shocking considering you can get a ped collie for under £200 ... I d think it is really bad in most case's especially considering alot of puppys don't get sold cause of the stupid prices and either get thrown onto the streets or end up at a rescue center


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

befxxx said:


> in my knowlege the labradoodle was bred for people visually impared ect who are allergic to dogs as they dont molt and cause as much of a reaction, in which case i can understand completley as they are bred for a valid reason.
> yeah i believe this is the case....
> i wouldnt pay for a mix breed that was part of a project to improve a breed as id still consider it as a mix breed and although they are brilliant dogs to keep and can suffer less health problems i just wouldnt do it.
> see thats why we chose Gus... as he has the nice traits of an AB and a BB but none of the health issues...
> a true BB walked past our house on froday night actually, i honestly thought someone was either dying or having an asthma attack...it had just stopped dead outside our house and was making this awful gasping sound.... its tongue was lolling out and looked an awful colour... the lady just nudged it with her foot and dragged it on...Bless the lil thing.


Gus is part of a longer term project to improve the bulldog and go back to the bulldogs of old...


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

befxxx said:


> in my knowlege the labradoodle was bred for people visually impared ect who are allergic to dogs as they dont molt and cause as much of a reaction, in which case i can understand completley as they are bred for a valid reason.
> i wouldnt pay for a mix breed that was part of a project to improve a breed as id still consider it as a mix breed and although they are brilliant dogs to keep and can suffer less health problems i just wouldnt do it.
> 
> i just think the price tags are silly now, the only reason id consider paying it would be for a papered dog to show or breed as a possible investment as well as a pet.. or because i want a specific breed thats not over bred, for example im debating an american bulldog and because they arnt so popular and i want a younger dog id pay more for one x


:lol2: ambulldog are over bred there was some pup down road from me free to good home


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## giant snail (Oct 25, 2009)

please excuse the spelling i m sure someone will corect me :whistling2:
chiwauwa ( HAHA) and yorkie.........


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

is that like a chihuahua?

:lol2:


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## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

eugh i wont be buying a chalkie 

:O i want one! iv been looking all over lol.
i have to agree i feel sorry for british bulldogs and if its a long term project i can totally see where your coming from, i think some breeds are a bit extreme. i feel sorry for them


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

befxxx said:


> just been looking on the internet for dogs as i might be moving house soon and hope to get one, and i cant believe the ammount of mixed breeds people are trying to sell for redicuous prices with silly names. i found a pug cross cavalier king charles spaniel called 'pugaliers' and they were looking for just under £400 a peice for these yet on the same page 2 full blood rottweilers for just £250 together? fair dos if you class it as pug x cavalier king charles spaniel.. but pugalier? whats that all about? liscence to add a couple more hundred quid? i have a few examples..
> 
> pets, dogs, pug - Goole, East Yorkshire - pugalier puppies ready now. pugalier... - AGJATGJTM
> pets, dogs, crossbreeds - Goole, East Yorkshire - Pugalier puppy. 4 month Female... - AGDMWMGMG
> ...


labradoodles,victorians,dorsets are a breed in their own right because they have 5 gen plus of breeding

if you look at any decent labradoodle breeder they'll have labradoodle then an f after it and a number,the number is how many generations it is,alot of people have jumped onto the success of the labradoodle but what people didnt realise was that the labradoodles were health tested hence why they were so highly priced,but they were originally bred to help the blind who suffer dog allergies

now every tom,dick and harry think they can do a first cross and put a fancy name to it


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## miss_ferret (Feb 4, 2010)

in all honesty the only thing that bothers me about it is how long it sometimes takes me to work out from the name what the cross is supposed to be :lol2: people will pay whatever they think a dogs worth, and if breeders cant sell them for the price there listed at then the price will drop, if those prices are what the pups are selling for then there clearly what people are willing to pay. that goes for pure breds and crosses alike.

then again i like a bargin, unless i need a working dog, any dog i get will be from a rescue. the way i see it, i want a pet, not an investment and i dont give a damm about breeding. therefore id rather pay £100 or so (watever the going rate is) for a rescue dog that already comes neutered, chipped and vaccinated, especially given what my vets currently charging for all of those, a rescue dogs a bargin at the price :whistling2:

before anyone starts on that, i am aware that the vast majority of breeders love there animals, class them as pets and so on. dog breeding just dosent interest me : victory:


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

i agree with youthat soemone will only pay what they`re happy too.

i want another bulldog, but i`ll have to save megabucks up `cause i want another healthy one with no problems.....and you dont them on gumtree for peanuts!


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

ive seen some cross breeds and they look lovely, as long as people are buying them people will keep selling them, we got a pug x french bulldog paid 400 quid for him and was worth every penny hes a great little mutt !!!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh goody! Another designer vs pedigree dog thread... :whistling2:


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

I have no real issue with x breeds and the prices asked for them..if someone is willing to pay for something they want then so be it!

What I have an issue with is the silly names....

I have a jrt x chihauhau and it so p's me off when I tell someone I have a 'jrt x chihauhau' and they say 'Oh I have just got a jackahauhau but he's not a x breed'.....yes it damned well is there is no such thing 'IT IS A JRT X CHIHAUHAU'....not a jackahauhau!

On another note I've had chihauhau breeders ask to use LeStat as he looks like a pedigree. I've been offered a chi bitch for free and told to sell the pups as chi without papers!
This particular person said no one would know they were x breeds and I could ask for £400-£600 without papers......I'm afraid I would know and I have morals......LeStat will never be bred from and if he is ever big enough to neuter he will be.


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## RhianB87 (Oct 25, 2009)

I know this might sound daft but they are all dogs. One species... It doesnt matter to me whatever they are called. 

Yeah some of the names are daft, but all dogs started the same and it was us selectively breeding traits that started different breeds. 
And this is what is still being done by selectively breeding certain things we want in dogs, whether thats smaller, taller, browner, hairier, it is done for a purpose. 

Breed names came from one person deciding thats what they will be called. OK there are some daft names out there but why does it annoy people so much? 

I would prefer to get a dog whether a cross or a pedigree and pay loads of money for it if it was for a reason. If someone wants to pay £800 for a jack russel x chihuahua because its what they want why moan at them about it... 

I have more of an issue with pedigrees being over bred and getting bad health/behaviour traits coming through than crosses being bred that might not have them. 

Thats my 2 cents worth :whistling2:


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

Well Im happy with the price my Chiweenie costs and if I had known then what she would mean to me I would have payed double!!
I also prefer calling her chiweenie rather then Chihuahua x mini dachshund coz it just sounds so darned cute! Although to be fair her price was half of that of a pedigree chi or daxie which i thought was logical. 
It doesnt bother me if people dont like her coz she is a cross breed.....she's bootiful which is all that counts!


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## Hammyhogbun (May 19, 2011)

What happend to a cross breed costing £50 lol

Now its fine to say its a jug or some crap name, charge £700+ happy days.

What annoys me is the people who say its 7/8ths something. No its a crossbreed lol

I have pedigree bitches and i was offered a free mating to something else, I said no way as i was not breeding crossbreeds. who knows what damaged it could do down the line.

I am just a pureist when it comes to breeding any animal, unless being done for a proper reason like the original lab/poodle.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

i dont see anything wrong at all cross breeding dogs, after all humans do it .


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## vonnie (Aug 20, 2007)

The problem isn't cross breeds, it's the idiot's who will pay such inflated prices!

But at the end of the day it's supply and demand. And it's a fad that will probably pass.

Both my two are crosses, but no silly 'designer' names here. They're just unknown mixes from the pound. Makes me sad that people will fork out hundreds of pounds for their designer dog when they could adopt a cross in need for a fraction of the price


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

yes these rescue centers dont exactly make it easy to adopt. if i saw somone advertising a stonkin mix bull breed for 500 quid i would buy it ! does that make me an idiot for wanting that dog ???? ummmmmm


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## oldtyme (Mar 16, 2008)

bollocklegs said:


> yes these rescue centers dont exactly make it easy to adopt. if i saw somone advertising a stonkin mix bull breed for 500 quid i would buy it ! does that make me an idiot for wanting that dog ???? ummmmmm


i paid more that 500 for a mix bull breed and i no idiot


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't care what people call their dogs, it seems a little silly people getting upset, it is not new after all!

Lurcher is a silly sounding name to me, for a cross breed and it has been used for 100's and 100's maybe 1000's of years!

People saying they have a Jack Russell cross is odd to me, well a Jack russell is a name for a certain looking terrier type, not a breed, so it is a mongrel in its self, add pug or daschund or chihuahua and you still have a mongrel.

It does upset me that people get these dogs, especially the poodle crosses and have no idea what they are taking on, a poodle is a hyper dog in most cases, but bred to work, if bred correctly then bred to have some balance in its personality. Cross it and you take the risk you get a hyper dog without balance. There are increasing numbers of older people I meet here in Devon who are getting this spaniel poodle crosses and they are a huge problem for the owners.

Also I have to admit I have met not one Husky or Malamute cross with German Shepherd that has not been an unbalanced nightmare. But this is not a cross breed issue alone, people take on huskies/ poodles/ weimaraners/ dalmatians etc that have the same issue, they choose for looks and have not one clue what the breed requires.

Something else that bugs me is the myth of hybrid vigour, in most cases the parent breeds have all the same issues and so cross breed pups have the chance of all the same issues. Even saying that there are some breeds so severely disabled on the basic factors of living, such as being able to breath that I would rather take the cross, for example if they were the last two "breeds" on the earth I would take the Puggle over the Pug

Edited to add, I dont care what their parentage, I am glad mongrels are no longer sold for £50, any dog is worth more than that!


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## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

Hammyhogbun said:


> What happend to a cross breed costing £50 lol
> 
> Now its fine to say its a jug or some crap name, charge £700+ happy days.
> 
> ...


i do have to agree with this. it just winds me up.

i do agree that any dog is worth more than 50 quid but as said already when people are buying mongrels for 500 quid plus from some clever breeder feeding on peoples stupidity the dogs in rescue centers have no hope, even if they are exactly the same dog. it annoys me when people make out they have something amazing when its just a crossbreed, its like me saying i have an million pound mansion because i paid too much for a 4 bedroom house.
drives me nuts.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

befxxx said:


> i do have to agree with this. it just winds me up.


someone who spends 700 - 800 quid is more likely to look after that dog as appose to someone spending just 50 on one . i spent 4 grand on my 2 bullys and the joy and love they give me back is just priceless even my lttle pug x frenchie cost me 400 quid i love to pieces and would have spent double what i paid for him . at the end of the day its just money!! and what a dog gives you back i worth any amount of cash to me :2thumb:


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

bollocklegs said:


> even my lttle pug x frenchie cost me 400 quid i love to pieces and would have spent double what i paid for him . at the end of the day its just money!! and what a dog gives you back i worth any amount of cash to me :2thumb:


that bits the understandable bit,who wouldn't love such a dog.It's easy to see from the buyer perspective.The dubious bit is why a 'breeder' would make such a cross.Not for health reasons as both breeds are similar.Which leaves money I think.Not the best motive for breeding a litter.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

at the end of the day anyone who breeds there dogs on purpose i think is in it for the money, i used to breed bull mastiffs, they were my babys . my first litter threw 22 pups 16 of them survived. 600 pound each do the maths thats why people do it and will keep on doing it : victory:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Hammyhogbun said:


> What annoys me is the people who say its 7/8ths something. No its a crossbreed lol


How odd.
They aren't trying to say it isn't a crossbreed, they're just giving a guide on how much of a certain breed is likely to be in a dog's bloodline, for example: Breed pure Poodle x pure Labrador = 1/2 lab, 1/2 poodle. Breed one of the offspring to a pure lab and you'll have 3/4 lab, 1/4 Poodle, as a _guide._


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

bollocklegs said:


> 600 pound each do the maths thats why people do it and will keep on doing it : victory:


what else can you add,that is the answer,like it or lump it.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

sarahc said:


> what else can you add,that is the answer,like it or lump it.


well isnt it ????? what can you do about it ??????


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i have a new black lab/ border collie cross... it was free...


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

bollocklegs said:


> well isnt it ????? what can you do about it ??????


I wasn't being off towards you,I was just concurring with you on the reasons.There isn't anything to be done about it,hence like it or lump it.


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

So habu you are now the proud owner of a LOLLIE!
well done you!


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

sarahc said:


> I wasn't being off towards you,I was just concurring with you on the reasons.There isn't anything to be done about it,hence like it or lump it.


:2thumb: tiz tho aint it


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Rach1 said:


> So habu you are now the proud owner of a LOLLIE!
> well done you!


I would prefer a Collador, sounds like more of a useful breed....or I am thinking of a colander? :lol2:


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## Rach1 (May 18, 2010)

LOL

you do get some really mad sounding combos though...
I love the name puggles...
kinda cute!


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

I met a Jug yesterday! (JRTxPug) It was quite simply the ugliest dog I've ever seen. My mum wants one :lol2:


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

bollocklegs said:


> someone who spends 700 - 800 quid is more likely to look after that dog as appose to someone spending just 50 on one.:


Then again I had a German Shepherd GIVEN to me...bar the petrol cost from driving Devon to Skegness, including an overnight stay in Nottingham as we had to collect before midday on the day they wished, and she is the love of my life, the dog by which every dog for the rest of my life will be compared :flrt:


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

One of my m8s bought a lab x springer spanial, they silly cow breeding them asked for £400 from her but everyone esle its £600 for a springador, I was disgusted. She has no love for the breed if she is doing this, dog breeding in my eyes is for the love of the breed and keeping its blood line pure, this is all about the MONEY, pure greed.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

cloggers said:


> I met a Jug yesterday! (JRTxPug) It was quite simply the ugliest dog I've ever seen. My mum wants one :lol2:


 
Whats a JRT


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

The Jack Russell Terrier, which is not a breed, more a description of a terrier type.

I have seen some springadors, obviously being a cross they can look like anything from a pure lab to a pure spaniel...but those I met looked really bad, they just looked like a mini lab, but with the same barrel shape as many labs, on a spaniel sized dog...well they are a long way from looking attractive, sorry to any obese short guys but neither you or the doggy form of you would make my boat float!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

dizzylynn said:


> Whats a JRT


 Jack Russell Terrier


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## Snakemanrf (May 31, 2011)

Ive owned 2 pedigree dogs one staffy and one german shepherd my staffy died from a stroke at the age of 7 and my shepherd had problems to! I now own 2 mixed breeds one husky cross german shepherd and one staffy cross mastif and cannot recommend mixed breeds more! its all very well having a pedigree but most of them are inbreed and suffer from far more health problems than mixed breeds, if you want to pay lots of money for a pedigree carry on but a mongral will live longer and have far less nasty and unfair problems that we caused by inbreeding and by the kennel club having such crap rules such as a 12 month old bitch being fine to breed before she has even stopped growing I would never breed a bitch under 3 years as they are still pups themselves. Sorry to rant but i feel strongly about this subject! Cheers, Ryan.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

Kare said:


> The Jack Russell Terrier, which is not a breed, more a description of a terrier type.


I have a JRT x.

We only call him a JRT because no one actually knows what he is :lol2:


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## robbh1987 (Apr 4, 2010)

FallenAngel said:


> I know this might sound daft but they are all dogs. One species... It doesnt matter to me whatever they are called.
> 
> Yeah some of the names are daft, but all dogs started the same and it was us selectively breeding traits that started different breeds.
> And this is what is still being done by selectively breeding certain things we want in dogs, whether thats smaller, taller, browner, hairier, it is done for a purpose.
> ...




All domestic breeds of dog are recognised as Canis familiaris.


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

Its always worse with pugs, people want pugs but people don't want to pay the price for a full pedigree so you get

Jugs
Chugs
Puggles
Pugapoms
shuggle
pugenese

I've even seen a pug x chinese crested.

Even people that don't crossbreed breed CRAP dogs with health problems, or that are poor examples of the breed.

Our girl is working towards her junior warrant and if ever we decide to breed from her it will be to a dog thats crufts qualified with no health problems.

I hate the fact that so many of these pug x breeds and BYB pugs go to people with no clue of the specialist care they require such as daily nose ridge and ear cleaning, teeth care, eye protection, protection from over heating and how they must ALWAYS be on a harness not a collar as they are so prone to tracheal collapse and soft pallete problems.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

GothGirl said:


> Its always worse with pugs, people want pugs but people don't want to pay the price for a full pedigree so you get
> 
> Jugs
> Chugs
> ...


you forgot frugg : victory:


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

bollocklegs said:


> you forgot frugg : victory:


 Theres so many its a joke.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

Normally I refuse to pay expensive money for a dog, a rescue from dogs trust is far better, but Ive always wanted a westie and forked out for my bonnie few months ago. £600 but she is my wee girl, my older girl was a free rescue someone was about to distroy, and she is just as much loved as the wee one, she has problems with her skin and she's a cross wi everything from whippet to lab tones in between. Her mum was breed properly, only 3 times and retires at 5 1/2 bonnie was a single pup and her last. I have no plans to breed her tho, just enjoy her.


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

at the end of the day all breeds of dogs are cross breeds really ! its just man that decides to give a certain breed a piece of paper calling it a certain breed.


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

bollocklegs said:


> at the end of the day all breeds of dogs are cross breeds really ! its just man that decides to give a certain breed a piece of paper calling it a certain breed.


 
Hundereds of years of selective breeding the best dogs to a specific breed standard designed to fine tune and improve the breed isnt the same as just putting two dogs together and producing mongrels and calling them a designer breed, the whole "designer" breed says it all, they are a fashion statement, not a breed.

Thats why people should buy from the best breeder they can,they spend a lot of time and money producing the best quality and example of the breed, so that the quality of the dog is reflected on them not backyard breeders who dont have the first idea and are just wanting to breed the "in" breed of dog and get the most money possible.
I've rang a lot of pug breeders recently advertising "show" quality pugs who think that mum winning a rosette at a fun show makes their bitch and in turn puppies show quality, which isn't the case.


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

GothGirl said:


> Its always worse with pugs, people want pugs but people don't want to pay the price for a full pedigree so you get
> 
> I hate the fact that so many of these pug x breeds and BYB pugs go to people with no clue of the specialist care they require such as daily nose ridge and ear cleaning, teeth care, eye protection, protection from over heating and how they must ALWAYS be on a harness not a collar as they are so prone to tracheal collapse and soft pallete problems.


I wonder what's going to happen to all the geriatric pugs after the popularity explosion that need even more care and can incur higher vets bills than the average pooch.I bet the recues will be filling which would once have been unheard of before this craze which the internet has fuelled.


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

Rach1 said:


> LOL
> 
> you do get some really mad sounding combos though...
> I love the name puggles...
> kinda cute!


What about the Schnauzer x poodle??
Whatever you think of the cross I defy anyone not to enjoy saying Schnoodle!!!

Schhhhnnnnooooooodle......

awesome!:notworthy:


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't mind heinz 57 mongrel dogs, I don't mind crosses which improve temperament or fitness. I cannot stand stupid designer dog names and indiscriminate crossing of dogs which haven't really been planned other than to give a new ridiculous cutesy name. Most of these people don't do health testing etc. Not a responsible breeder in a lot of cases. 

A dog worth having is worth any price you are willing to pay. If people will pay those prices for a daftly named dog, no problem with me. There is a market for them but I sure as hell wouldn't be paying for one.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

rubberbiscuit said:


> What about the Schnauzer x poodle??
> Whatever you think of the cross I defy anyone not to enjoy saying Schnoodle!!!
> 
> Schhhhnnnnooooooodle......
> ...



OMG!! I want a Schnoodle!!!


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

We have a Shih Tzu x Papillon...
Would that make him a Shih Pap? A Shillon?
Or perhaps a Papi-shih?

:lol2:


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

Papi shihtz? Maybe time for the vets!


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

A good pup doesnt just come from a mum thats won 1 show it comes from a long blood line where there has been no in breeding. Bonnie has a family tree/chart thing showing generations, I dont plan on breeding her so didnt bother having it renewed when I registered for her papers in my name.


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## BecciBoo (Aug 31, 2007)

rubberbiscuit said:


> What about the Schnauzer x poodle??
> Whatever you think of the cross I defy anyone not to enjoy saying Schnoodle!!!
> 
> Schhhhnnnnooooooodle......
> ...


OMG I want a Schnoodle!

But I do loooooove my Labradoodle :lol2:


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

GothGirl said:


> Hundereds of years of selective breeding the best dogs to a specific breed standard designed to fine tune and improve the breed isnt the same as just putting two dogs together and producing mongrels and calling them a designer breed, the whole "designer" breed says it all, they are a fashion statement, not a breed.
> 
> Thats why people should buy from the best breeder they can,they spend a lot of time and money producing the best quality and example of the breed, so that the quality of the dog is reflected on them not backyard breeders who dont have the first idea and are just wanting to breed the "in" breed of dog and get the most money possible.
> I've rang a lot of pug breeders recently advertising "show" quality pugs who think that mum winning a rosette at a fun show makes their bitch and in turn puppies show quality, which isn't the case.


but still..... different breeds make up a specific breed .


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## bollocklegs (Sep 19, 2009)

GothGirl said:


> Hundereds of years of selective breeding the best dogs to a specific breed standard designed to fine tune and improve the breed isnt the same as just putting two dogs together and producing mongrels and calling them a designer breed, the whole "designer" breed says it all, they are a fashion statement, not a breed.
> 
> Thats why people should buy from the best breeder they can,they spend a lot of time and money producing the best quality and example of the breed, so that the quality of the dog is reflected on them not backyard breeders who dont have the first idea and are just wanting to breed the "in" breed of dog and get the most money possible.
> I've rang a lot of pug breeders recently advertising "show" quality pugs who think that mum winning a rosette at a fun show makes their bitch and in turn puppies show quality, which isn't the case.


and also what 2 dogs make up a bull mastiff . 60% mastiff 40% bulldog how could that possibly take hundreds and hundreds of years to produce???


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## kirksandallchinchillas (Sep 29, 2009)

I tend not to rant over the silly prices people pay for their cross breeds as it's their choice and if they have not researched properly they deserve to be fleeced:devil:

With the internet you can do basic research within minutes - so ignorance is not an excuse.

I do have Labradoodles - but they were chosen because of their less exaggerated coats and poodley temperament. When I see hairy Labradoodles which are 9/10th poodle I do think - WHY NOT JUST GET A POODLE!! Then the owners have their coats off, which to me spoils the whole point of getting a long coated dog.

I often wonder why certain pedigree breeds sell for more than others - Cocker Spaniels are more expensive than Springers and Mini Schnauzers cost a lot more than Westies.


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## Ophexis (Feb 19, 2010)

Nix said:


> Papi shihtz? Maybe time for the vets!


That sounds interesting! :lol2: I think people would laugh at me on the street if I said that.
I wonder what he was sold as to my cousin :hmm: I am genuinely intrigued what he could be 'classed' as! At the end of the day he's a cross-breed, we all know that, but his designer name would be interesting!


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## rubberbiscuit (Jan 5, 2009)

BecciBoo said:


> OMG I want a Schnoodle!
> 
> But I do loooooove my Labradoodle :lol2:
> image
> image


D'awww. I luv Labradoodles!! 
Although ironically its coz they look like 'proper' scruffy mongrels to me!!LOL


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Ophexis said:


> We have a Shih Tzu x Papillon...
> Would that make him a Shih Pap? A Shillon?
> Or perhaps a Papi-shih?
> 
> :lol2:


I'd call it a shitallon.

Honestly though they are all just a crossbreed, although I'd not call a first cross a mongrel, my boy only cost £200 and I think that was a fair price as he's turned out lovely now we have him from my daughter and he's learned to be a 'dog' and not a dolly anymore.


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

Personally I don't think pups should be sold for any less than £300 each (as long as they have been raised properly). If people cannot afford the purchase price of a pup then they can't afford a dog full stop. That is where shelters and rescues should come into play as they have the means to properly background check and still have "rights" over the dog once it is rehomed.

But in the same breadth there are loads of cross bred dogs that are insanely over priced....but like anything....it's worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, there is a so called market for cross bred dogs and I have no issue with that as long as the dogs/pups are getting the love, care and attention they deserve.

Whether they are mixed, crossed or pedigree it is extremely expensive to raise a litter of pups, again if it's done properly.

I detest the snobbery associated with pedigree dogs. A dog is a dog and they all deserve the very best.


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

kellystewart said:


> Whether they are mixed, crossed or pedigree it is extremely expensive to raise a litter of pups, again if it's done properly.
> 
> I detest the snobbery associated with pedigree dogs. A dog is a dog and they all deserve the very best.


I agree with both these comments...it costs no less, other than registration and testing costs, to raise a well balanced x breed/mongrel litter than it does a pedigree.
£300 for a x bred pup sounds reasonable to me but I doubt anyone would pay so much for a "none decsernable(sp)/mongrel" puppy to be honest.

And of course any pup deserves to be loved and have the best care but there is so much sobbery with some people it's unbelieveable.

If it's not a pedigree, usually just their pedigree, it does not have the right to life if you hear some of them!:bash:


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

I'll tell you something that really shocked me....I visited a litter of Mal pups the other week there...I was disgusted, nearly physically sick.

They were KC registered and eye tested...but not hip tested. Now the dam of the pups was to me a sibe...she looked like a sibe but a badly bred one. Splayed toes, leg structure poor and very small. My full sibe bitch is bigger than her and likely heavier too. There was nothing about this dog that said Malamute to me. There was also another 2 bitches kennelled behind the shed...very small runs in my opinion but he said he couldn't let them mix as they fought.

The pups were in a shed outside, 10x8, it stank to high heavens. They weren't even 4 weeks and the mum was being kept off them all through the day and only allowed in to see them at night "to keep them quiet".

It was openly admitted that the only reason they were KC registered was to get the best possible top price for them...£800 which in the current "market" is very expensive for a Malamute...if you aren't showing that is. 

I asked about the stud..."oh we met him out walking and convinced him to let us use his dog".

Now this person was clearly only interested in money but his dogs are KC and eye tested. I asked about contracts......and who he keeps in touch with the reply "I keep in touch with people I want to, the others I'm happy to see the back of!"

So would you have a pup off him?

Orrrr have a pup from someone who breeds crossed dogs (for whatever reason) but actually cares about the pups welfare, issues contracts, life long advice, keeps in touch with the new owners, spends a fortune on everything that is needed when having a litter and is always there should the pup need to be rehomed??

Let's not beat about the bush here...the main reason for breeding dogs, any animals in fact is TO MAKE MONEY. I think any breeder that denies that is a liar. Yes, you may want to keep a pup yourself and improve your lines and that is all fantastic BUT making money is an outcome of selling pups in most cases (obviously if a Caesar or other vet treatment is required then it can actually cost you more than you make). 

So my point is......KC isn't everything, to me it is more important how the pups are raised, socialised and what the parents are like. As well as having a "click" with the breeder, I like to know I have support and a back up if it's needed. Not someone who takes my £800 and never even asks how the pup is doing 6, 10, 29 months down the line!


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## JulieNoob (Jul 9, 2008)

kellystewart said:


> So would you have a pup off him?
> 
> Orrrr have a pup from someone who breeds crossed dogs (for whatever reason) but actually cares about the pups welfare, issues contracts, life long advice, keeps in touch with the new owners, spends a fortune on everything that is needed when having a litter and is always there should the pup need to be rehomed??


NEITHER

I'd have a pup from someone who bred either to improve the breed or for a purpose, working, showing etc - who did all health tests and cared about their pups and would supply life long follow on care.

Many cross breeds are ONLY sold for money - because there is no reason for them other than thinking up cutesy names and making claims about what great pets they are! MOST dogs are amazing pets.


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

I agree most cross breeders only breed for money...but it's the same for most pedigree breeders IMO. And of course there is a reason for cross breeds! People want what they want. Dog's and other animals are kept for our own selfish reasons....companionship, sporting past times, guarding etc etc. Not everyone want's to show their dog at crufts, I know I couldn't care less about showing....it's not in the dog's benefit, it is for the human's to feel good about themselves and win rosettes. Working, however, absolutely is in the dog's benefit and I wholeheartedly think most dog's should be worked but realistically this is never going to happen.

The only people who I know do not breed for financial gain are those who have a team (mals or sibes) and keep the full litter, or perhaps only sell a couple to cover their costs. Any show breeders who breeds may keep a pup or 2 but largely the litter is sold for a considerable amount and even more when "there are 30 champions in both the sire and dam's lines". 

Personally, improving the breed is a rather vague comment.....improving the breed to people who KC and showing is trying to attain a dog that conforms to a standard. Now we all know that this standard has all but ruined some breeds. Granted, there are things being done to improve this but not enough. Improving a breed to me....is making sure the dog is well balanced, socialised, healthy and generally all round sound. It is a proven fact that selective breeding (to the extent it is nowadays) is bad for the gene pool....show breeders often line breed to "fix" features that are deemed good for the show ring and that can involve great grandfather to great grand daughter or cousins to cousins. (No offence is intended to show breeders who are more responsible that this BTW...I am just speaking from my experiences of people who breed to show)


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## befxxx (Feb 12, 2010)

bollocklegs said:


> someone who spends 700 - 800 quid is more likely to look after that dog as appose to someone spending just 50 on one . i spent 4 grand on my 2 bullys and the joy and love they give me back is just priceless even my lttle pug x frenchie cost me 400 quid i love to pieces and would have spent double what i paid for him . at the end of the day its just money!! and what a dog gives you back i worth any amount of cash to me :2thumb:


 
no offense but i think thats crap, i know a lot of good people who have rehomed dogs for free and they love them to absolute pieces! and im sure there are a lot of people who spend thousands on a dog just to use it for stud and treat it like a money maker because of its pedigree.
its down to the owner, not the price, like all this freebie hunter bull on rehoming, i can see where they are coming from but iv had pets myself that havent cost a lot, for example my rats. cost me practically nothing but they were spoilt bloody rotten!


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## Whosthedaddy (Nov 29, 2009)

When I was growing up these were called 'Mongrels' and were dirt cheap, all of a sudden as you've said they asking silly money for what?


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## saxon (Feb 26, 2007)

Whosthedaddy said:


> When I was growing up these were called 'Mongrels' and were dirt cheap, all of a sudden as you've said they asking silly money for what?


 
No they are not 'mongrels' and to be honest unless you are in your 60's-70's a dog bred between two 'pedigree' animals wasn't called a mongrel.

I'm 46 and they have always been called 'cross breeds'....'mongrels' are dogs that have no discernable(sp) attributes to any known breed.

I don't agree with the stupid names but I wouldn't call them mongrels either. This goes back to the snobby pedigree breeders/owners...., even though I know a lot of nice pedigree owners and breeders, it does seem to be that type of person who usualloy insists on cross breeds being called mongrels.
If you know the two parents then you can have a 'family tree' which to me prevents them being called mongrels.


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## GothGirl (Apr 9, 2008)

kellystewart said:


> I'll tell you something that really shocked me....I visited a litter of Mal pups the other week there...I was disgusted, nearly physically sick.
> 
> They were KC registered and eye tested...but not hip tested. Now the dam of the pups was to me a sibe...she looked like a sibe but a badly bred one. Splayed toes, leg structure poor and very small. My full sibe bitch is bigger than her and likely heavier too. There was nothing about this dog that said Malamute to me. There was also another 2 bitches kennelled behind the shed...very small runs in my opinion but he said he couldn't let them mix as they fought.
> 
> ...


 
On my mobile so not sure if ive read it all, but thats horrific i hope you have reported them


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## kellystewart (May 11, 2010)

What for though? According to the SSPCA they aren't doing anything wrong. The dog's have food, water and shelter. Sadly, I do not hold the SSPCA in high regard in that respect 

Oh and he also told me that the SSPCA had been out before as a neighbour had reported them....and they gave him in the all clear. Technically, he isn't doing anything wrong....however, morally, to me and many others it is very morally wrong to treat dog's in that manner.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

kellystewart said:


> I'll tell you something that really shocked me....I visited a litter of Mal pups the other week there...I was disgusted, nearly physically sick.
> 
> They were KC registered and eye tested...but not hip tested. Now the dam of the pups was to me a sibe...she looked like a sibe but a badly bred one. Splayed toes, leg structure poor and very small. My full sibe bitch is bigger than her and likely heavier too. There was nothing about this dog that said Malamute to me. There was also another 2 bitches kennelled behind the shed...very small runs in my opinion but he said he couldn't let them mix as they fought.
> 
> ...


 
I would have spoke my mind and walked out in disgust, met him on a walk, for all they knew the stud was unhealthy, you PAY for a stud, which can be from £100 - £350 just for the stud, which is why some breeders charge alot, also hip scoring, tests etc etc, cost money, removal of the due claw at birth (done by vet) more money, puppy checks through 1st weeks. Keeping mum healthy and regular visits to vet, the family tree documents costs £45 a think with the registration to kc. Which the new owner has to pay for AGAIN that annoyed me tho, but as I am not breeder her I just opted for the normal documents. Your also paying for the housing, if a run is built (a good one not silly diy fall apart one) property for them to stay on eg solid building as kennals, none of this is cheap to be done, most breeders make very little provit if they do it all properly. I dont agree with cross breeding in the way they are doing it the now, just flinging 2 together no paying for a stud etc or vet tests etc, so really why they charge so much is beyond me. I used to think breeders were far to expensive but I see whats involved and understand why they cost so much if breeder is doing it right. 
I feel puppy farming is far worse than cross breeders. Least the mums are fed properly and not in cages with wire to stand on all day hurting there poor paws.


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## dizzylynn (Jul 30, 2010)

I must admit I paid alot for Bonnie, (west highland terrier) there were cheaper ones but I didnt get to see the parents or they were further away, a few werent to keen on me coming to visit with the kids. bleh.
I called mairi who hadnt even advertised Bonnie as she was a single pup I found her detials via kc records. I met her 3 times, 1st on our own to see where we were going and to talk to her, meet the mum and the sister, she had loads of photos of mum and her other dogs in the house so this was someone that does care. Met again with the kids twice called frequantly and she called me, she came down few weeks after we got her to see her. She had all the paper work in a folder and showed me all the vet treatments for past few years, for her and the sister, she could get the stud for me but would have to arrange that I said its ok as I seen everything I felt I needed to see, the pup and mum were in the house in the conservitory, she was only in there for the 1st few weeks incase she got stuck under a unit. 
The breeder doesnt need to call me or ask for photos, shes on my facebook and can see how bonnie is doing daily.


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