# Frog supplements



## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

Hi all. 
I started planning on my adventure to get a frog. So far I know where to get my setup but food and supplements aren't that easy. I can start a cricket colony and feed them eggshells for calcium. I heard that people make a good part calcium powder from eggshells which are around 90% calcium carbonate. Apparently if you grind them finely, they're the same thing. Does anyone have experience with this? Also is there a way to supply the frog with vitamins other than powder? The frog I want to get is a pacman frog, which I know are quite lazy, so it probably wouldn't go to get something like a cuttlefish bone. 

And one more thing, how do I make sure I don't give the frog too much calcium, I won't be using a UVB, just sunlight and some Led's. 

Thanks. 

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

MonBon; Full marks for, obviously, planning ye envisaged frog ownership. Still raises a few questions, with me, though.

1. Where, in the world, are ye?

2. Why can't the place/s ye intend to buy ye frog / set up also get ye something like a tub of " Nutribal ", or similar?

3. Never tar all frogs with the same brush. I've seen Cera's that couldn't lift for a fart. Others that raged and ran about their tanks at the sight of a human.

4. I _believe_ ~ But, don't take my word on this. Google around it, to be sure, to be sure ~ A body can't OD on calcium. Excess is just secreted. Not absorbed. 

5. Powdered egg shells and cuttlefish bones are fine and dandy, I'm 'sure'. But, my Snapper was doing fine, till I got a pot of Nutribal. Then the buggers appetite went through the roof. And he's grown about an inch in a couple of months!

World of difference, see, in a creature hanging on in there. And one that's blossoming and thriving.


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

To answer your questions 

1 I live in Ireland in co Kildare and the nearest pet shop is an overpriced store who can't care for their crickets. What I'm doing is I'm going to buy 300 crickets from the guy supplying the frog and I'll start a colony. (or roaches if I'm lucky) I was going to buy the crickets and the powders online but the shipping is 25pounds and I am not paying an odd 50 euro for crickets and some powder. Worst case scenario, I'll make powder out of cuttlefish bones or eggshells and buy the powder in that store. 

2 
The store I buy the frog from is in central Dublin, so about an hour and a half by bus, and I am quite busy, and cant spend over 3 hours of my day getting a tub of nutribal, hence the cuttlefish and eggshell idea

3 I realise that but I don't have the frog yet so I can only assume

4 I Google it, and no one said it was good and no one said it was bad

5 refer to answer 2

Do you know about vitamin alternatives? I was thinking that if I properly gut loaded the crickets with highly vitamin rich foods like squash and sweet potatoes, I could keep vitamin powdering to a minimum or perhaps null. 

Thanks 

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

MonBon said:


> I live in Ireland ....


:2thumb: Un Believable!!! I'm eating my dinner, as I type this. Otherwise, I'd shoot ye my number and we could chat!

Either way, I'd love to exchange notes. I'm in Leitrim. I was about to mention my mate, 'Shins. Over in Clare. Then I realised; This _isn't_ Boards! :mrgreen:

Back presently. Let me just clean up here and get settled with my Jameson ration .....


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> :2thumb: Un Believable!!! I'm eating my dinner, as I type this. Otherwise, I'd shoot ye my number and we could chat!
> 
> Either way, I'd love to exchange notes. I'm in Leitrim. I was about to mention my mate, 'Shins. Over in Clare. Then I realised; This _isn't_ Boards! :mrgreen:
> 
> Back presently. Let me just clean up here and get settled with my Jameson ration .....


I believe that we had this conversation before in one of my older posts... Anyway I'll let you finish your dinner

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Dinner done with. Jameson mouthwash to hand. I never realised I'd formerly known ye were in Eire. I guess I just can't retain stuff like I used to :blush:

Ceratoff? Crickets??? It's the age old story; " Here, hold my beer. I'm gonna breed some crickets ....! " :roll:

Forget it. Breed Mice! (Have we done this one before?) Time ye cery gets past hatchling size, it'll eat far more crickets than you can Buy, let alone breed. And, it'll probably reach that size before ye crix even get off the ground. These types can become Eating Machines!

Mice also provide the complete package meal, right off the bat too. No need to worry about supplements.

Shed. Desk top freezer. Mouse colony. _Boosh! _Sell any surplus, on here. If I could get hold of one of those commercial / laboratory rack set ups? I'd breed them myself. God knows, I have the room. Be great for my Snapper too. And when I get my new Pyxi ....! Even my Tiger .....


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> Dinner done with. Jameson mouthwash to hand. I never realised I'd formerly known ye were in Eire. I guess I just can't retain stuff like I used to :blush:
> 
> Ceratoff? Crickets??? It's the age old story; " Here, hold my beer. I'm gonna breed some crickets ....! " :roll:
> 
> ...


It's easy to say 'breed mice' bit that requires probably more time and care than the frog would. Also my mother would hate me. 
I'd rather stick to the crickets, thanks. I have no clue how many an adult frog would get through but perhaps, I'll switch to locusts when it gets bigger. 
The way I want to feed it is, as an adult, throw in a couple dozen crickets, one week calcium, one week vitamins. Maybe I'll get roaches, who knows. 

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

I have my eye on those roaches myself. For my toads. Wouldn't bother trying to breed them though. It's the temperatures they all need (Those, crix and locusts) At least the roaches don't seem to die off, en masse, at the least provocation.

Wonder if I _can_ find a mouse rack? I sense a niche market here! Seriously, I've kept this sort of stuff. FroRo's are the only way to go. Crix will break ye heart, and ye bank. But, ......


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> I have my eye on those roaches myself. For my toads. Wouldn't bother trying to breed them though. It's the temperatures they all need (Those, crix and locusts) At least the roaches don't seem to die off, en masse, at the least provocation.
> 
> Wonder if I _can_ find a mouse rack? I sense a niche market here! Seriously, I've kept this sort of stuff. FroRo's are the only way to go. Crix will break ye heart, and ye bank. But, ......


So I got this idea... 
Can I feed him frozen thawed chicks? They're really cheap, 49c a piece and would just be great for me. 
Otherwise I can just feed him mice. How does 1 small mouse a week sound for an adult...? Perhaps I can bump it up to an adult mouse.

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Day old chicks? We know a song about those things! 

But, no. They'd be way too big for any but a sizable adult, in honesty.

As long as ye can source frozen pinkies? They tend to do them in five packs, of something, don't they? Assuming we discuss a hatchling frog, about the size of the hole ye thumb and forefinger can make? That size will easily snaffle a pinkie. Maybe two a week?

Time ye've got through a few packs of them? He should be beefing up to Fuzzy / Fluff size. _Then_ one a week should keep him lean and keen. 

By beer mat size? Definitely full grown adults. Else he'll eat ye out of house and home. Two adults every few weeks would be about it. _Above_ beer mat and day old chicks would be a definite possibility. I'd want to alternate them, at least, with mice though.

I want another Pyxicephalus! Love them! I fed mine on much the regimen above. You're very clearly a sensible bloke. Ye gut will guide ye. It's these people who want to feed something into the record books we need to be wary of. Not people like you.

But, yeah, in a word? Pinkie mice defosts, to get the gain on him as he burns through that initial growth spurt. Pack 'em in. He'll pack it on. Then, throttle back to cruise speed with more balanced size meals, less often.

And we want film of ye frog! :mrgreen:


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> Day old chicks? We know a song about those things!
> 
> But, no. They'd be way too big for any but a sizable adult, in honesty.
> 
> ...


Thank you a lot! This COMPLETELY persuaded my dad. I plan to get a sub adult, if possible so I'll start off on the small mice, hopefully will get up to the chicks, not only because they're cheaper but because I'll have quite a sizeable frog on my hands. 

Just to go over my setup if you would be so kind as to tell me if there's anything wrong. 

-a 10 gallon tank, 20" x 10" x 12" with a mesh top

2 water bowls

2 inches of Eco earth

A 30 watt infrared bulb or perhaps 45 watt night bulb

My room is about 65 to 68°F, perhaps warmer in winter. 

I assume feeding rodents and chicks doesn't need vitamins and the adult mice and chicks should be fed about twice a month. 
Thanks! 

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

If ye Dad's happy, that's fantastic! :no1: I've, obviously, no idea what his reservations might have been. But, I just told it as I know it. And if that's good by him? Great!

Ye set up too sounds fine to me. Ye _might_ want to upgrade that tanks size ~ in a year or so ~ depending on the nature of the frog. As said; Some will spend their lives squatting in their dugouts. Others may charge around like wild boars on drugs. The latter need more space to 'express themselves' :whistling2:

Talking of self expression? Watch out for that. Obviously, the water bath must be freshened every day they've been in it. (I keep canaries too. It's amazing, how Filthy they can make their own bath water, inside forty eight hours!)

'Phibs excrete a Lot of stuff, into water. They'll also do so into their substrate. Better to change 'good' stuff than wait till ye tank smells.


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> If ye Dad's happy, that's fantastic! :no1: I've, obviously, no idea what his reservations might have been. But, I just told it as I know it. And if that's good by him? Great!
> 
> Ye set up too sounds fine to me. Ye _might_ want to upgrade that tanks size ~ in a year or so ~ depending on the nature of the frog. As said; Some will spend their lives squatting in their dugouts. Others may charge around like wild boars on drugs. The latter need more space to 'express themselves' :whistling2:
> 
> ...


Thanks for checking!
I'll see what I can do about a larger tank in the future 
Just out if curiosity, what do you think about the Japanese method?(keeping them in about an inch and a half of water instead of substrate) Not that I want to keep it like that, just wondering... 

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

Japanese? I always knew of that way as the 'Laboratory' method. Sterile Keeping. Thinking of it in terms of Japan leads to thoughts of restaurants ..... Then things get vile ....!

_Laboratory_ Method though? Know what? For These types of frogs (Cera's and Pyxi's)? Believe it or not; _I love it! :gasp:

_Listen; They aren't exactly the most highly evolved minds out there. A Bullfrog will never write like Shakespeare. These frogs are more ye eat. Defecate. Sleep merchants. 

And, if reaching out from their bed, for a Big Mac, is all it takes? They're way down with that!

I kept my Pyxi (For the sake of this discussion, Pyxi's and Ceratoph's are interchangeable) in a Lab' set up. He had an 18 x 12" tank. 1/2" strip of wood under the facing, 12" end. Fluval #1 filter in the rear, deep end.

Frog sat there, from pinkie to full grown mouse (And _still_ ready for more!) size. Filter washing his back.

He ate. He'd defecate. It was poetry in motion. (See what I just did there?!) I'd put a mouse in one end. Fish Net a processed mouse out the other, Filter kept the water pure.

I'd probably upped it to a #2 (Fluval filter) by the time he was growing on. This would give some indication of the depth / angle of the water. Basically, as long as he can get his face out at the shallow end? I found the Laboratory System worked extremely well. From frog _and _keepers perspective. 

Truth to tell, MonBon? Laboratory is, in all probability, actually best! :blush:


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> Japanese? I always knew of that way as the 'Laboratory' method. Sterile Keeping. Thinking of it in terms of Japan leads to thoughts of restaurants ..... Then things get vile ....!
> 
> _Laboratory_ Method though? Know what? For These types of frogs (Cera's and Pyxi's)? Believe it or not; _I love it! :gasp:
> 
> ...


Wow, to be honest I wasn't expecting that. Also a pyxie frog in an 18" tank? I thought they needed at least a 20 gallon long. 
Anyway I won't be using the laboratory method anytime soon. I used to keep fish before I got my snake, and I absolutely DESPISED changing the water. And don't get me started on the filter... ooof

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## el Snappo (Mar 4, 2017)

MonBon said:


> A pyxie frog in an 18" tank? I thought they needed at least a 20 gallon long.



Both types of frog are much of a muchness, regards captive maintenance. Tank size, as said, can be adjusted to their individual natures. 

Maybe I should point out that I'm a bit of a dinosaur. I lived in a day when tanks were called things like " 18 x 12 x 12" ". This " x Gallons " thing is an American thing. Their Gallons aren't even the same as ours. Chaos ensues.

But, yeah. I kept, and bred, all sorts. Two foot tank was the most I really ever needed. Three by's were sort of awkward and too much tank.


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## MonBon (Mar 1, 2017)

el Snappo said:


> Both types of frog are much of a muchness, regards captive maintenance. Tank size, as said, can be adjusted to their individual natures.
> 
> Maybe I should point out that I'm a bit of a dinosaur. I lived in a day when tanks were called things like " 18 x 12 x 12" ". This " x Gallons " thing is an American thing. Their Gallons aren't even the same as ours. Chaos ensues.
> 
> But, yeah. I kept, and bred, all sorts. Two foot tank was the most I really ever needed. Three by's were sort of awkward and too much tank.


Oh God sorry, I see. Gallons everywhere so I assume. Everyone uses them. Not too fond of them myself. 
Seeing as they don't need as much space as I thought, I might get a pyxie instead, I could probably feed it the chicks. Anyway I'll probably stick to the pacman. Is there one you prefer in particular? I'll reply tomorrow, since it is midnight here. Once again thanks. 

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