# leopard gecko morph PROBLEM



## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

please could someone help me with these morph problems ?

super snow x super hypo tangerine carrot tail

super snow x sunglow

also what did everyone think ov robastion wonderful geckos .

i brought a new member to our team 

a shtct female 

unsure on a name .


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY said:


> please could someone help me with these morph problems ?
> 
> super snow x super hypo tangerine carrot tail
> 
> ...


Assuming a few things, your SHTCT and Sunglow are only heterozygous (single copy) hypo, and your Sunglow is a SHTCTB tremper albino

Supersnow x SHTCT will give 50% Mack snow hypo, 50% Mack snow. All offspring will show varying amounts of Reduced spotting, tangerine and carrot tail.

Supersnow x Sunglow will give 50% Mack snow hypo, 50% Mack snow. All offspring will be het Tremper albino, and show varying amounts of Reduced spotting, tangerine and carrot tail.


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

a SHTCT has to be a homozygous hypo, hence the name *S*uper *H*ypo Tang Carrot Tail
and a sunglow is a super hypo albino, if it's only a hypo albino then it's called a hybino (*hy*po a*bino*) not a sunglow
the super bit refers to the fact that hypo/superhypo is a co-dom morph and this is the homozygous form, or double factor (df) form, hypo works the same as mack snow so 
super snow x super hypo tangerine carrot tail
= 100% mack snow hypo's, probably very yellow as adult's and not a desiarable combination as snow's should be white

super snow x sunglow
= 100% mack snow hypo's het albino(tremper?) also showing more yellow than is desirable from a mack snow as an adult

the mack snow gene also seems to remove almost all traces of the carrot tail, leaving a faint yellow where orange would be,


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

But, hypo seems to be a dominant trait, and the super hypo being line bred from hypo. So the SHTCT and sunglow could be either het or **** hypo.


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

MrMike said:


> But, hypo seems to be a dominant trait, and the super hypo being line bred from hypo. So the SHTCT and sunglow could be either het or **** hypo.


most hypo's in the uk have their origins with ray hine's line of hypo, which is co-dom, ( incomplete dominant ) this is why you can get either hypo's or super hypo's, if the gene was dominant you'd only ever get superhypo's (or normals), which is not what happens


----------



## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

boywonder said:


> most hypo's in the uk have their origins with ray hine's line of hypo, which is co-dom, ( incomplete dominant ) this is why you can get either hypo's or super hypo's, if the gene was dominent you'd only ever get superhypo's (or normals), which is not what happens


Where is Gazz when you need him lol, he sent me a pm with explanation, let me see if I can dig it up.


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> most hypo's in the uk have their origins with ray hine's line of hypo, which is co-dom, ( incomplete dominant ) this is why you can get either hypo's or super hypo's, if the gene was dominant you'd only ever get superhypo's (or normals), which is not what happens


WRONG! The geman breeder that bred his wild caught leo to a super hypo leo got super hypo offspring and the super hypo was from RAY HINES:Na_Na_Na_Na:.And hypo from Ray in the USA are known as ghosts.Alex Hue sells them and they've alway been known as dominant hypo's.And the fact that wild normal X super hypo = some super hypo offspring PROVES that hypo IS NOT CO-DOM.


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

gazz said:


> WRONG! The geman breeder that bred his wild caught leo to a super hypo leo got super hypo offspring and the super hypo was from RAY HINES:Na_Na_Na_Na:.And hypo from Ray in the USA are known as ghosts.Alex Hue sells them and they've alway been known as dominant hypo's.And the fact that wild normal X super hypo = some super hypo offspring PROVES that hypo IS NOT CO-DOM.


 
so where do hypo's come from if not from super hypo x normal? or do you get normals, hypo's and superhypo's from normal x superhypo?


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> so where do hypo's come from if not from super hypo x normal? or do you get normals, hypo's and superhypo's from normal x superhypo?


They are a primery morph they poped up.Normal x super hypo = hypo's,super hypo's,normal is one way it can pan out.

Hypo-(H)DOMINANT.

Hypo tangerine-(H)DOM+(T)LINE BRED.

Hypo baldy-(H)DOM+(B)LINEBRED.

Hypo tangerine baldy-(H)DOM+(T)LINEBRED+(B)LINEBRED.

Hypo baldy carrotail-(H)DOM+(B)LINEBRED+(CT)LINEBRED.

Hypo tangerine baldy carrottail-(H)DOM+(T)LINEBRED+(B)LINEBRED+(CT)LINEBRED.

Super hypo-(S)LINE BRED+(H)DOM.

Super hypo tangerne-(S)LINE BRED+(H)DOM+(T)LINE BRED .

Super hypo tangerine carrottail-(S)LINE BRED+(H)DOM+(T)LINE BRED+(CT)LINEBRED.

Super hypo tangerine carrottail baldy-(S)LINE BRED+(H)DOM+(T)LINE BRED+(CT)LINE BRED+(B)LINE BRED.

Super hypo baldy-(S)LINE BRED+(H)DOM+(B)LINE BRED.






Here's breeding examples with out the polygenetic traits of super,baldy,carrottail,Tangerine.Result will vary when you have hypo leo's with these trait ofcourse.

Normal X Hypo-(single factor) = 50% Normal, 50% Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Normal X Hypo-(double factor) = 100% Hypo-(single factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(single factor) = 25% Normal, 50% Hypo-(single factor), 25% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(single factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = 50% Hypo-(single factor), 50% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.

Hypo-(double factor) X Hypo-(double factor) = 100% Hypo-(double factor) offspring.


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

i understand about heterozygous and homozygous hypo's but if it's not co-dom then why is there a difference in appearence?
could it be that super hypo is controled by more than one chromasone location? and hypo is the result if only one mutated allele is present at one point but not at the other? being dominant means it only takes one mutated allele to result in a single factor hypo, but when the second position in the dna strand is also occupied by a mutated allele the result is a super hypo (single factor)?


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> i understand about heterozygous and homozygous hypo's but if it's not co-dom then why is there a difference in appearence?
> could it be that super hypo is controled by more than one chromasone location? and hypo is the result if only one mutated allele is present at one point but not at the other? being dominant means it only takes one mutated allele to result in a single factor hypo, but when the second position in the dna strand is also occupied by a mutated allele the result is a super hypo (single factor)?


Answar this question first are you in agreement that carrottail on a hypo is polygenetic ?.


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

boywonder said:


> could it be that super hypo is controled by more than one chromasone location? and hypo is the result if only one mutated allele is present at one point but not at the other? being dominant means it only takes one mutated allele to result in a single factor hypo, but when the second position in the dna strand is also occupied by a mutated allele the result is a super hypo (single factor)?


this is my theory and having thought about it this is also aplicable to the false eclipse eyes found in mack snows. they are a common phenomena with macks because the super snow pattern requires two positions on the dna strand, if one single mutated allele is present you get a mack,( maybe if you get two mutated allele's at the same location you get a whiter mack?) and a mutated allele at a second location results in a false eclipse mack? then if two are present at this second location you get a super snow? all the above is speculation by myself, i also may not have worded it the best possible way but i'm tired atm :mf_dribble:


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

gazz said:


> Answar this question first are you in agreement that carrottail on a hypo is polygenetic ?.


carrot tail is polygenic yes, carrot x carrot = carrot to a greater or lesser ammount
carrot x no carrot = less to no carrot


----------



## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

gazz said:


> Answar this question first are you in agreement that carrottail on a hypo is polygenetic ?.


are you saying that hypo is dominant but super hypo is linebred from hypo's to have no spots?


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> carrot tail is polygenic yes, carrot x carrot = carrot to a greater or lesser ammount
> carrot x no carrot = less to no carrot


And what happens to the spots on a good carrottail ? thay disappear :thumb:.It's that simple it alrady happens with in the tail.Why's it so hard to beleave that what happens in the body(super) and the head(baldy).Hypo on it's own already cut down spotting.With a bit of selective breeding you do with the body & head as that's been done the create carrottail.

That's why if you breed super hypo x super hypo usually throw super hypo and odd hypo and some times oddball results like normal.That's coz really at blue print you hit hypo(SF) X hypo(SF).It's a fix polygenetic trait due to selective breeding the biggest half of super hypo will be Double factors.

Normally if you breed hypo(SF) x normal you get 50%normal/50%hypo.

So if you breed super hypo(SF) x normal results would be mix of super hypo,hypo,normal.

Or super hypo(DF) x normal = hypo,super hypo. 

Note the colouring in the tail is't that strong by carrottail standeds but it still got shot of them spots.That that all that happen with the body spots and head spots to give you a super hypo carrottail baldy.Dominant + polygenetic.


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> this is my theory and having thought about it this is also aplicable to the false eclipse eyes found in mack snows. they are a common phenomena with macks because the super snow pattern requires two positions on the dna strand, if one single mutated allele is present you get a mack,( maybe if you get two mutated allele's at the same location you get a whiter mack?) and a mutated allele at a second location results in a false eclipse mack? then if two are present at this second location you get a super snow? all the above is speculation by myself, i also may not have worded it the best possible way but i'm tired atm :mf_dribble:


False eclipse in mack didn't really start happening till blizzards was bred into macks.The false eclipse in blizzard is suspect to click and unlock the trait with the black eye gene of super snow that mack carry resulting in false eclipse macks.Personally i think it has somthing to do with the gene that give whiteness.I'm waiting to see the offspring of a false eclipse blizzard or mack to a TUG,GEM,Albery snow to see if the false eclipse.As false eclipse though dosen't seem impossible is harder to pass onto a all the other leo morphs.Most enigmas seem to have a white out influance also i've seen false eclipse a few tome on them also.


----------



## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

boywonder said:


> are you saying that hypo is dominant but super hypo is linebred from hypo's to have no spots?


BINGO!:2thumb:.


----------



## LEOPARD GECKO CRAZY (Aug 7, 2008)

*hi*

thanks guys 

i understand now


----------

