# urgent. ..abandoned glider baby needs milk now!!



## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi peeps...

Urgent appeal...

Joey a couple of days out of pouch. Just found mum dead. Babies eyes are not yet open but he will lap and is very hungry. My possum milk powder is out of date and i need more urgently! Does anyone in the south have any or does anyone know a stockist where i can go buy tomorrow?

Someone did suggest condensed milk to water but thats a mimic for rodent milk.

Anyone can help please shout.

Kaz x


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## paulajo (Oct 13, 2010)

Sugar Glider Forum - Index

This is the best place to ask. I will post your link on there now to see if you get an answer quicker

Fingers crossed, Paula


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Hi, I sell the wombaroo possum milk but the joey will need feeding long before I can get it to you!

You could use goats milk, it has been used successfully to hand rear joeys. Good luck and let us know how you get on. 

Here's a guide to handrearing - Hand Rearing Joeys

You will need to be feeding around every 2 hours at the moment, day and night. Make sure the joey is kept warm at all times as they cannot thermo regulate until they are fully furred, and you will need to toilet them. I used to toilet them before every meal.


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi Marie

We found the joey on the cage floor and its mum gone in the nest box with no signs of ill health, she was fine the day before. The joeys eyes are still shut and he has downey fur but id say oop max 10 days, the eys look like they want to open.

Hes always hungry and being fed every couple of hours at the mo. We have heard him calling before his mums death and judging by his rib cage he could have been with out food for a day or so. He laps milk happily from my fingers which is a good sign... he wants to live.

My major concern is that before he was fed the first time he had dark brown runs which continues to happen after feeding. Some tonight have said its hopeless but i want to fight for him, hes not giving up so neither am i.

My own vet would be pretty useless but i have one 30 mins away which i may be able to see tomorrow. Do you have any idea how i can stop this babies runny tummy?

Thanks for your help... its much needed, gonna be a long night!

Kaz xx


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

The runny tummy could be down to him/her getting cold. Make sure he is warm, when I have hand reared joeys in the past and they got a runny tummy, I gave them a tiny bit of probiotic yogurt a couple of times a day which helped.

Don't give up hope, I wouldn't say it's hopeless, especially if s/he is eating willingly. Do you have any small syringes? Feeding him will be a lot easier and you will have a better idea of how much he is consuming. 

As well as poop, make sure you get using out of him/her too.


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Cheers for that Marie.

Im sure he did get cold as hes a bit clicky and ive been dead carefull not to get milk in his lungs... now wondering what mum died of but she should no signs of having a cold or resp issue.

A big concern with this little fellow and its a hard one to explain... may be normal may not is this...

He has a protusion between his back legs, im assuming bum or little wink but that also has a protusion... lika a pink transparent worm the size of a piece of cotton and about a ml or 2 long. Is this normal or has he some kind of prolaspse?

Hes a fighter and strong just sooo very tiny and so young. I dont mind weeks of sleepless nights if i can save him, ive done it with day old pinkies ( rats) but i think the odds are stacked against me with this baby. I hiss at him and he hisses back... so damn cute and im already attached to him... a real heart breaker.

Abandoned babies in the past i havent been able to save as they refused to eat but this one is eating atleast. I will go find a garage thats open that sells the yogurt.

This baby seems constantly hungry but im worried about over feeding spesh with the clicking. He wakes up every 30 mins or so and hisses for a few minutes... is this hunger?

Kaz x


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Ps... Marie, re the syringes..

Yes keith made me a special one for feeding rat kits, its got an end as fine as a hair. I use it more for putting milk on my thumb as the baby seems happier lapping off my skin. That said when he sits still long enough hes happy to lap off the tip of the syringe.

We have just got back from the garage with activia so heres hoping that sorts his stomach out.

Kaz x


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Update...

Ive just gone through the glider viv and 1 of the males and 1 of the females are sneezing with out any other symptoms so this must be a resp issue... gutted. Vets are open at 9 thankfully! All i have here is baytril currently, a rat and rep antibiotic.

The baby is still with us and the squits have stopped, hes also had a couple of wee's of his own accord which is good. Hes had more milk and yogurt. Im gonna post a pic below to see if you can age him. My partner has big hands. The baby has just fuzzy felt type fur and his tail appears bald at the mo. His ears are still partly furled back... just seems too tiny to be oop at all tbh but you may think different. His ribs are still visable but he does have the tiniest belly now.

Im beyond hanging so im gonna grab 2 hours sleep... thank god im not at work today!

kaz x


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Heres the little dink.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

The protrusion is normal, nothing to worry about .

The hissing could be because he's cold (is it male or female - not that it matters but I don't like referring to him if it's a her!), because he needs the toilet or just wants his mum. Joeys at that age are rarely left alone by their parents, when mum needs to eat, dad sit with the joey.

I would be using the syringe rather than licking off your fingers at this stage, it's easier to monitor how much s/he is getting, and also he would still be suckling off mum, nowhere near the lapping stage.

The sneezing (if no other symptoms) is normal, they sneeze while they are grooming themselves. Are the eyes clear? Is there any discharge from the nose, are they eating, and how do they look in general.

S/he looks about 5 days OOP. They cannot thermoregulate as the fur has not grown and the belly should still be pink. I can see a couple of marks on the joey that should not be there (ribs and head). If you are keeping more than 1 male in the cage then that could be the issue. 

When I was hand rearing, I kept the joey on me all day in a pouch around my neck, under my clothes to keep her warm and give her some comfort. At night she went in an incubator with a teddy bear to make sure she stayed warm.

I have to go to work now so I will not be able to respond again until 12 ish ...


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Hi Marie,

Awesome on the protusion from the protrusion... thought he had prolaspsed something!

Im pretty sure its a boy, theres a large button.

Incubater? Do you mean chicken or egg? I will see if i can loan one from somewhere.

What i hav got is vivs, heat mats, habitstat thermometers etc as we keep rep. Currently hes in a tiny terra with anti pill fleece and a soft teddy which he hangs to. 

Sounds odd but whilst a grabbed a snooze i put him in the airing cupboard and that worked a treat. When keith checked him he was warm with out being hot and when he woke really fiesty.

Yes his belly has no hair. Those arent marks... it was milk that i got on his fur, there are no injurys on the joey thankfully.

We do keep a mixed group yes, none are related and we never keep the joeys so avoid inbreeding. Its an odd story but when we took these in the 2 males were so bonded that they pine if seperated regardless of the females. The father that produces babies has a full head spot where as the other has never developed properly and hes never shown any interest in the 2 ladies, had he we would have had him castrated to avaoid fights but the whole group is completely bonded... this would never happen in rats lol!!

Im so hoping this baby makes it, ive reared rat kit pinkies but this would be a great achievement. IF we can pull this off then i will keep him because he will be very special and get him a friend of his own...but theres a long way to go between now and then. Why do animals cause so much heart break?

If you thinks hes 5 days oop can you let me know how much milk he should be taking from the syringe every 2 hours. He wont suck the syringe but will lap milk eagerly from the tip.

Thanks again for all your help

Kaz x


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## Nell (May 3, 2011)

Hi teasel, I successfully hand reared two 10 day oop gliders using just goats milk, abidec and infacol (all v easily sourced). Link to my hand-rearing diary is here: Hand Rearing Diary

Recipe:
I used full fat goats milk, infancol and abidec. The ratio was 5 ml of goats milk to 1 drop of Infancol and 1 drop of Abidec. I used Marie's guide when determining how much to feed.

I've successfully used this formula twice now, and heartily recommend it, especially as all ingredients are readily available from local stores. During the first few weeks they were also offered between .25 and .5 ml of water at each feed, and if they seemed slightly dehydrated lectade or dioralyte was offered to keep their electrolytes up (I was advised by my vet that dioralyte is equally good, and it is much more readily available than lectade). Check hydration levels by lightly pinching the skin at the nape of the joeys neck, it should spring back instantly - if not joey is dehydrated and needs fluids.

If you don't already have a snuggle safe heatpad, get one - they were a life saver for my joeys.

If you need any help, feel free to PM me or Marie, and it might be worth signing up to the glider forum for more support/help.


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Ah Nell thats brill, Marie has been such a help to.

Ive got goats milk... where can i source the other 2 items today? Im not sure about this little dude this afternoon in all honesty. Keith weighed him as soon as i found him and he was 6.1 grams... nothing. Hes very ribby and theres no skin to pinch hes that tiny. On the photo he is stretched out so looks bigger but i could sit him on a 10 p. His tail appears to have no fur.

Big problem at the mo is sticky milk... he seems to get it everywhere, how did you over come this? Im scared to try and wash him as such for fear of him getting cold, hes on a fragile line as it is.

Late last night he developed a tiny belly but im sure hes smaller today so will weigh him. Keith said he had a normal baby poo earlier ie.. milky ocre colour as opposed to the dark brown runs i was getting, he pee'd several times of his own accord to so there are some positives but in some respects hes gone back a step but all we can do is try. I will give the water a go to, im sure he will take it.

Kaz x


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

You don't need to borrow an incubator, you just need somewhere safe for him to stay and where the temperature can be monitored and kept constant. Airing cupboards are very dry (well, ours is), and he will need a bit of humdity. 

The marks I can see are red? They're like bruises.

If I were you, I would get the submissive male neutered, he may show no interest now but things can and often do change. As a neutered male he can still stay with the breeding pair.

Read Nell's handrearing diary and also the link that I posted first, it has amounts on there and how much he *should* be taking and at what age.

I would also weigh him daily to make sure he is going in the right direction. It's so easy for them to lose a gram or two which we wouldn't notice but would make a big difference to him.


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## Nell (May 3, 2011)

Abidec and infacol are childrens medications - abidec is a vitamin supplement and infacol is anti-bloat medication. Infacol is absolutely ESSENTIAL, as bloat is an easy killer and very difficult to prevent otherwise, as you can never simulate mothers milk exactly. You can get both from any pharmacist, boots or decent size supermarket, and I would really advise getting it today if you can, especially if he's getting a little tummy on him, as this could well be bloat.

The pink protrusion you mentioned is something that the parents use to stimulate defecation, this is another way to prevent little one getting bloat. Use a cotton bud dipped in warm water to stimulate the pink bit after every feed.

As for sticky milk, I think I used a cotton bud with warm water to remove any food residue. Just make extra sure you keep him warm during this and dry down with kitchen towel.

You mention you've had abandoned babies in the past - is this joey gliders or other forms of animal? Just as if you've had abandoned gliders I would really re-evaluate your groups dynamic, and either way strongly consider getting younger male snipped.


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

Cheers girls...

Hes just had milk and then water. The little belly isnt there today but judging by the amount he pee'd in the early hours that would explain the belly. He's just had a tiny pee but quite different from last night.

Marie... def no marks on this baby, ive just double checked him over. Great news on the incubater! Ive got a snuggle pad thankfully and thats in his little box, he uses it to grip to like he would his mum and now hes at a constant temp. Ive got a snuggle pouch somewhere which i will dig out in a min... my heads all over the place at the mo. He does enjoy laying on my bare skin under my jumper but i have to keep a cupped hand there so he doesnt move too far but once he settles he sleeps well so thats good.

Nell... no its our other pair, our origionals. We have a male and female and when she was a youngster she lost her first 2 joeys. I contacted the breeder and he said hes had the same with inexperienced mums... he was right as she went on to have a couple more very healthy large youngsters. This girl only ever had one baby at a time. Shes now still with her partner but hes been castrated as i decided 5 joeys was enough for her and she would have just kept on popping them out bless her. I thought it was better for her health.

The mum we lost yesterday was 14 months or so and a first time mum. I cleaned the viv in the early hours to keep myself awake and occupied and i could find no signs of anything that could have harmed her... very odd as she was a large healthy girl. The gliders are keiths passion really and hes devastated hence why im trying so hard to save this baby, i hate seeing a grown man in tears, a 56 year old softie... not cool. Hes currently catching up on some sleep bless him.

Ive got a chemist thats a 2 min walk from the house so will go there now. Its only small so if they dont have those items i will have to wake him and go to asda with in the hour.

I so dont want to lose this baby but hes still fighting so thats a positive.

hanks again, both of you

Kaz x


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## teasel (Nov 1, 2009)

NEW YEAR SPECIAL - INCUBATOR - BROODER - HOLDS 25 EGGS - FREE CANDLER/TORCH! | eBay

Would this be any good for this lovely baby glider?? If so can go and collect tomorrow, bit of a drive but no matter.

Ive got the 2 kid bits Nell and hes readily taking goats milk with those added... really pleased...thank you so much!!

Kaz x


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## spudfarrar (Nov 14, 2012)

*little glider*

Really hope he makes it all the luck to you


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

I hope he makes it too, will be keeping up with this thread - keep positive for the little guy! I love gliders :flrt:


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

When pooping the joey start at the belly as the parents actually lick from the belly towards the base of the tail, not just the pink protrusion. Sometimes the gut needs stimulation to get things moving and because such a drastic change in milk it plays havoc with the delicate digestive system. 

I never used abidec (but I used the possum milk replacer) nor infacol but they didn't suffer from bloat. Make sure you continue to offer a tiny amount of probiotic daily to help with the gut flora (and help prevent bloat). 

The incubator looks good but make sure there is airflow, it looks like there are vents in the side. The only problem would be it's polystyrene and if the joey starts to chew on it as it grows it could swallow some.

You could make a temp incubator by using a faunarium, and put a heat mat with thermostat under a third of it, making sure the faunarium isn't directly on top of the mat - leave a small air gap. And add a damp cloth to give a little bit of humidity. 

All the signs are good, he's eating willingly, and he's toiletting - have you had any poop out of him?


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## Greenway (Oct 16, 2011)

How's this baby getting on? 

Gemma


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## Jamiioo (May 8, 2010)

Any news on this baby's story?


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