# UVB or not to UVB - that is (not) the question (anymore)...



## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Ok, let's be real, we all know that UVB is beneficial but for some species we never really care enough as they 'don't need it'.

And falsely so, I never put much thought into it - not back in my royal breeding, DWAL or now boa days.

I went to the vet with my 10ft boa and the vet - unrelated to the issue I was there for - suggested UVB, citing quite a range of research etc.

I thought no harm done and got her some UVB ... Now does it make a difference ? I mean I always had lights in my viv ....

See for yourself (and yes, that's the UVB bulb she is nosing up).

She has been under that thing for hours each day since I got it for her.





























So she obviously enjoys and prefers it and now means I need to think about a larger bulb (not wattage but size).

So do they need it to survive ? Not similar to other types of amphibians or reptiles, no.
Is it beneficial ? To be honest, there was never really any doubt that it would / could.
Do they love it ? Very obviously (mine does anyway).

So yes, wrongly I never thought about it but now I am converted ... I know her for a while now and any new lights or furniture never gets that 'oh what's that' treatment - she completely changed her demeanour around the UVB light, however.

So yea - give your noddles UVB people ....


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## Swindinian (May 4, 2020)

Gorgeous animal, and what a pleasant post 😁


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

On the odd occasion I used UV for snakes, they were always more active.
When the subject first rose its head inhad a young leopard snake. I was dubious about UV, but thought that as this is a diurnal species I would try something. I popped her enclosure by the window on a cool, but very bright and sunny day. I did this deliberately on a cool day so that any change I behaviour would be less likely due to temperature.
Within seconds she was out of her hide and exploring. 
I only did this for about half an hour each day for about a week.
Aside from increased activity her colours became far brighter and more vibrant, even when away from light.
There are, I believe, a number of studies that now confirm benefits of exposure to UVB. While its not as essential as it is for insectivorous or herbivorous herps, there are still benefits to providing it.
It's a long way from the original position of "it MIGHT benefit, but won't cause any harm".
And with the development of UV lampsnthayvdont require separate ballast and starter units, it's much, much easier to provide now.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

@ian14 Agree. My objection this time around (and I stopped owning snakes ten years ago before this one came along) was Heat. UV lamps used to be coupled with heat emitting lamps or were just hot by itself. Now they are available as ‘cold’ lights too of course. Which is great.


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## Thrasops (Apr 15, 2008)

It is almost as if we have not been making it up all along.... 

I have noticed the same response in captive snakes that have never been exposed to UV, being introduced to it. Time and time again there is an initial period where they cannot seem to get enough of it, they almost immediately go out and bask under it.

You get a similar response to real sunlight, even through a window (which will filter out the UVB). Snakes seem to really like moving into ****** of light shining into their terrarium, sometimes even in preference to the actual heat and lights we provide them. Here are some charming pics of a Russian rat snake doing that taken by Charlotte James. There seems to be some quality of the light that attracts them.



















Not to be bitter, but I remember being laughed out of the room on Livefood UK around 2004 when I so much as suggested it, based on my own observations watching my snakes react to it when I tried it as an experiment with T8s I had bought for lizards. (Based on the fact that growing up, I caught snakes basking in the sun an awful lot as well as under rocks and sheets). I got the same response when I suggested it for 'nocturnal' geckos despite literally living with 'nocturnal' geckos basking in the sun on the walls of my house for the first 14 years of my life.

And on here in 2008 when I mentioned it again (about a week before the first study of its benefits on Corn snakes by Acierno et al. was released).

It seemed to get more traction on a long thread I posted in 2012 when I first started making fake rock walls, although I think this was coupled with people being impressed by the 'pretty enclosures' as a whole rather than just the expensive lights. But there have been many rather acrimonious arguments on the subject more recently.

I have always wondered why snake people in particular are so reluctant to accept UV light, my conclusion is when people have done things for a long time they get set in their ways and sometimes stop in that rut rather than realising things can be done even better as we learn more?

I think often, we need to see things for ourselves rather than be told by annoying people on the internet, but it is a reason I have always encouraged people to give it a go and see for themselves.

Since then there have been no less than five studies showing not only health and welfare benefits but a behavioural preference for UV JUST in Corn snakes... as well as Hognosed snakes, Pythons, Boas, Malagasy Hognoses, False water cobras, Coachwhips, Jamaican boas and a bunch of others... and for a variety of reasons - endocrine response, stress reduction, resistance to illness, improved alertness and activity... we've known the 'how' and 'why' it happens for decades now, everything from serum D3 cycling to melatonin/ serotonin cycling and cytokine response.

When something is deemed 'beneficial' I must confess I do not understand why so many have been so reluctant to provide it, especially when they use money to buy another snake rather than cough up the £30-odd for lighting for the first. Nowadays it's not THAT huge an expenditure and there are better products on the market than we have ever had. We are all animal lovers, why would we not provide something that is beneficial to our pets? I have struggled with that for a long while now, that mindset probably has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but there it is.

It is heartening to see a dramatic change over the last five years or so and a great many shops and keepers begin advocating providing UV as PART of a decent all-round enclosure designed around welfare rather than efficiency. Great to see.


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## Elly66 (Feb 27, 2021)

Love the pics - she's saying " catching the rays man" 😉

I've always provided uva/uvb and strongly believe that, unless you have a truly nocturnal reptile, it's essential for their wellbeing. 

I don't think we ever stop learning about the best way to keep them. My biggie right now is seeing the difference in putting my Royal into a much bigger viv. It's made me realise that we're truly underestimating the space they should have. Once I have the spare cash, I'll be buying a bigger viv for my corn snake as well. I'd definitely prefer just a couple of snakes I can provide larger vivs for than loads in smaller vivs now.


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

When I was breeding royals back in the day (back in the day meaning where a lucy was like £5k and a panda pied £20k) I had my high end ones in very large vivs. In fact, when you look through this forum you will never see posts about my panda pied (even under my old username I 'lost') because I once posted a picture of the setup somewhere else and I was ripped apart by the community because my viv was too large.

My panda pied girl was in a 6ft x 2ft x 3ft custom viv with two leverls and she used every single bit of the viv. To get to the upper level she had to climb branches too and even sometimes slept in a hammock that was in the middle top tier.

Yes for the rest I used racks, but each tray was 4ft x 2ft x 20" so you could have argued that my trays of the rack were larger than some vivs.

I had some pairs that did indeed needed small space - I mean you are dealing with individuals here. The way I dealt with it was simple - see what works - if something doesn't - try something else. I even once rescued a trio of normals that lived together and went health wise massively downhill when I separated them - so they HAD TO live together.

So yea - I wasn't doing what the norm was back in the day but I was successful in what I was doing ... Well, apart from UV that I didn't use lol ...


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## Jibbajabba (Jan 31, 2011)

Diva is getting an upgrade - small T5 clearly doesn't cut it ...


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