# Exo terras 30x30



## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

I have managed to clear a space in my rep room 1m long by 40 cm high.I have enough room for three 30x30 exo terras and a 1m lighting unit across the top.What amphibians, if any, can be kept in these tiny cubes??


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

Not many, if any, I'm afraid! Frogs need a lot more space than people think  You can keep juveniles of any species in there until they outgrow it, but the recommended size would be a 45x45x60 for tree frogs, or either a 45x45x45 or 60x45x45 for ground dwelling frogs or toads, or even bigger if you wanted to, the bigger the better!


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

Thats what I thought back to the drawing board me thinks.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

Young pacmans maybe? I have a pair of tomato frogs in one, bit small I know but they seem happy, well fed and kept clean. What about a pair of darts you could get the 30x30x45 high. Some reed frogs maybe?


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> Young pacmans maybe? I have a pair of tomato frogs in one, bit small I know but they seem happy, well fed and kept clean. What about a pair of darts you could get the 30x30x45 high. Some reed frogs maybe?


Every single one of these species apart from the reed frogs will only be able to stay in there while they are small juveniles. darts require a lot more space than people think. A pac man will out grow it VERY quickly. How large are the tomato frogs you have in there because thats a tiny amount of space for two ground dwelling frogs.

You could get a pair of reeds in there but beware they may be small but VERY loud:2thumb:


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

I have a horned frog,greys tree frogs and green tree frogs already and they are all way too big for a 30x30.I have kept reed frogs before also but in 30x30x45 and yes they are noisy.I dont quite have the height required for the 45s to fit in.Maybe some small gecko species instead.......


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

30x30 are fine for growing stuff on so was trying to give him some ideas for short term. A pacman would be good for 12'months. 
I've kept amphibians for 18 years and have breed many species of afrixalis and hyperolius that haven't been bred in captivity back in the 1990s. They are noisy and large groups do best for breeding in large planted vivs. One or two may be ok if it's a small Sp. And three sides are covered. I have a pair of darts in a 30x30 and they are fine with live plants to climb on. If he gets babies they will be perfectly fine for 12-18 months and can be moved into something else as required. 
My tomatoes are full grown. I know they could do with a larger viv. However they spend a lot of time hidden and at night like to climb and sit on the fake vine that's in with them. Once fed they burrow and hide again. They will be getting a larger viv in time, redoing some of the reptile room.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

What ever you decide people on here are still going to say 30x30 are too small and Lizard species are often more energetic than many frogs.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

are u happy froggie? Yes, frogoff!









This was set up for some young dendros. Not the best set up but they loved it and within 2 months the plants grew really well as did the frogs and Had no problem finding food. The two have now been put into a 30x30x45 which is well planted and they are happy, feeding, climbing etc.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> 30x30 are fine for growing stuff on so was trying to give him some ideas for short term. A pacman would be good for 12'months.
> I've kept amphibians for 18 years and have breed many species of afrixalis and hyperolius that haven't been bred in captivity back in the 1990s. They are noisy and large groups do best for breeding in large planted vivs. One or two may be ok if it's a small Sp. And three sides are covered. I have a pair of darts in a 30x30 and they are fine with live plants to climb on. If he gets babies they will be perfectly fine for 12-18 months and can be moved into something else as required.
> My tomatoes are full grown. I know they could do with a larger viv. However they spend a lot of time hidden and at night like to climb and sit on the fake vine that's in with them. Once fed they burrow and hide again. They will be getting a larger viv in time, redoing some of the reptile room.


Darts will definitely not be ok for that long unless you get thumbnails. I have two leucs that are not anywhere near that age I would say 8 months max and they are huge. When I got them they were tiny didn't look long out of morphing stage as still plump and dint have the dart frog shape about 1cm at most. This was at the pompey show in october. They would no way be comfortable in a viv that small. I would never keep any darts in a 30x30 for any longer than 3 months, if bought from babies and that would only be one in there to quarantine. I have seen your viv set up for your your darts and agree with Wolfenrook when he says it needs upgrading.

Same with my horned frog, he is probably a year old now as got him when he was tiny(size of a 10p) back in March last year now he is huge and would fill most of a 30x30.

Here is a pic of my horned frog and the growth in under a year, then tell me he can still be in a 30x30

Then(just under a year ago)









3months ago(bigger now, not got any newer ones)


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

It can definitely house a young pacman for a couple of months, I had mine in one for at least 2 months but he got very big very quickly! He was the size of a pound coin when i got him exactly a year ago (a year today, I think!) and he's now a good 10cm snout to vent, in fact I made a progression thread a little while ago which shows how quickly they grow!


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

The horned frog dosent look any bigger. - edit - yes he does sorry I had two pics the same on screen for some reason. 
When frogs are little it's often good to have small enclosures to make sure they get the food they need. Of course you have to upgrade enclosures from time to time but going to large too soon and there can be problems.


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## spencerburgo (Dec 1, 2010)

matt_mcmahon77 said:


> Darts will definitely not be ok for that long unless you get thumbnails. I have two leucs that are not anywhere near that age I would say 8 months max and they are huge. When I got them they were tiny didn't look long out of morphing stage as still plump and dint have the dart frog shape about 1cm at most. This was at the pompey show in october. They would no way be comfortable in a viv that small. I would never keep any darts in a 30x30 for any longer than 3 months, if bought from babies and that would only be one in there to quarantine. I have seen your viv set up for your your darts and agree with Wolfenrook when he says it needs upgrading.
> 
> Same with my horned frog, he is probably a year old now as got him when he was tiny(size of a 10p) back in March last year now he is huge and would fill most of a 30x30.
> 
> ...


ive got a frog like yours maybe a tad bigger and you could put that in a 30x30 cube as the thing just does not move unless you put food in front of it lol, by the way that is one nice looking frog you have there you must have been getting plenty tucker in to it,

cheers spencer..............


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> *The horned frog dosent look any bigger.*
> When frogs are little it's often good to have small enclosures to make sure they get the food they need. Of course you have to upgrade enclosures from time to time but going to large too soon and there can be problems.


Really have a second look. Frogs instinct is to hunt so they are very good at finding food. I haven't had any problems with any of mine being underweight or finding food, its what they do. there is no where for the food to go except in the enclosure and unless you have a room sized enclosure I cant see any problems with larger vivs. I have two leucs in a 40x50x40 and they were tiny as said previously and they have never had any problems finding tiny fruitflys amongst the planted viv which has leaves covering the substrate and many hiding spots. as said its a frogs instinct. Just cause they are captive bred does not mean they lose this.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

If you were looking at my other thread would would have read that the 30x45 is temporary for a few months. The frogs are health and well looked after. 
Always someone on here that wants to put others down.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> If you were looking at my other thread would would have read that the 30x45 is temporary for a few months. The frogs are health and well looked after.
> Always someone on here that wants to put others down.


I don't think we do a lot of 'putting others down' on this section- but if people ask for advice, they get it, based on experience. That *is* the main reason people ask.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> If you were looking at my other thread would would have read that the 30x45 is temporary for a few months. The frogs are health and well looked after.
> Always someone on here that wants to put others down.


Not putting anyone down, just saying that if it was me I wouldn't have them in that, due to it being to small for me.

My opinion, and the advise I would give is to upgrade. Nobody has to listen but thats why its advice. Your advice to someone is, keep in small enclosure, mines to give them a bigger enclosure. 

people come on here for advice and there is always going to be differences in opinion and the way people keep animals. 

Just putting my opinion forward. Don't think I am putting you down, I am not.


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

So,in short no phibs then.I may take the feet off the vivs and drop them another 15 cm and try for a couple of 45 cubes instead,should open my options up a bit.Thanks for all the advice.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

that's not how I read, felt or took it but yes everyone has their own opinion. At the end of the day if you have a health animal that must count for something. 
You have to monitor your animals and any signs of problems have to be corrected. In the past I have lost small frogs by placing them into large enclosures too soon, also animals grow at different rates, its down to the species and individual animal.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

vitticeptus said:


> So,in short no phibs then.I may take the feet off the vivs and drop them another 15 cm and try for a couple of 45 cubes instead,should open my options up a bit.Thanks for all the advice.


Basically don't buy 30x30 for anything!


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## RhysJordan (Feb 21, 2011)

Instead of phibs you could go for inverts ? maybe a mantis or stick insects ? They have to be useful for something otherwise exo-terra wouldn't have made them.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

RhysJordan said:


> Instead of phibs you could go for inverts ? maybe a mantis or stick insects ? They have to be useful for something otherwise exo-terra wouldn't have made them.


Well they have made and even smaller version now, 15x15x30 tiny and useless for pretty much anything apart from maybe a praying mantis.


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## RhysJordan (Feb 21, 2011)

Really ? oh gosh :/
Maybe they made it for a mantis or tiny hatchling stick insects ?


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

30x30 no good for sticks either (only very young- and they grow to quick.)
Mantis ok, maybe a spider?


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

RhysJordan said:


> Really ? oh gosh :/
> Maybe they made it for a mantis or tiny hatchling stick insects ?


Nah, they made it for gullible fools who are more impressed with style than practicallity! :devil:


I think their marketing department must have come up with them after seeing how many people love nano aquaria- which are also pretty crap.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

That the reason [email protected] have gone for them for all there animals?


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> That the reason [email protected] have gone for them for all there animals?


Nope the reason for that is because [email protected] stores no sweet FA about reptiles and dont know what there requirements are. I hate seeing the reptiles in [email protected] stores it angers me.


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

spencerburgo said:


> ive got a frog like yours maybe a tad bigger and you could put that in a 30x30 cube as the thing just does not move unless you put food in front of it lol, by the way that is one nice looking frog you have there you must have been getting plenty tucker in to it,
> 
> cheers spencer..............


Thanks  He is awesome and full of personality, he lives in a 45x45x45 and uses every inch of the space when he's awake, he is currently in hibernating mode so obviously sat doing nothing right now :lol2: I do think he'd hate me if I put him in a 30x30x30 though, his water bowl would take up most of the space and he does like to move around a lot, but at the end of the day it's down to what the owner and the animal are happy and healthy with.
By the way, I am matt_mcmahon77s girlfriend, I'm not just randomly talking jibberish pretending it's my frog :lol2:


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

manda88 said:


> Thanks  He is awesome and full of personality, he lives in a 45x45x45 and uses every inch of the space when he's awake, he is currently in hibernating mode so obviously sat doing nothing right now :lol2: I do think he'd hate me if I put him in a 30x30x30 though, his water bowl would take up most of the space and he does like to move around a lot, but at the end of the day it's down to what the owner and the animal are happy and healthy with.
> By the way, I am matt_mcmahon77s girlfriend, I'm not just randomly talking jibberish pretending it's my frog :lol2:


What?, who are you?, leave my frog alone?:lol2:


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## RhysJordan (Feb 21, 2011)

I make it a rule of my animals that none come from [email protected] because they just don't know what they are talking about in the ones near me. Which is a shame because they have really nice dragons there. Although their food stocking is good near here and actually have the exact size crickets I need for the toads all the time. Other places seem to run out the medium sized ones when I need them.
Nano aquaria are good but only for inverts. I saw a nano viv exo-terra tall in the place I go to get everything today. Asked how good they were. The guy I spoke to (hopefully will be working with them soon  ) said they are s**t they only got 5 in because head office said to. They haven't sold any.


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## REDDEV1L (Nov 27, 2008)

I saw some of those 8x8x12 exos in the flesh yesterday.
They're kinda like the 7 litre tropical fishtanks for shrimp/snails....Would look great as a planted tank on an office desk etc but totally unsuitable for anything apart from insects.


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## BenjaminBoaz (Jan 6, 2006)

They obviously think exo are the way to go though. Do you think they got their care guides are from them or had any training from exo? 
I do like their enclosures but the backgrounds just a playground for crickets to dig, hide, eat etc. And being glass sometimes a bit exposed for animals.


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## Ron Magpie (Oct 11, 2009)

REDDEV1L said:


> I saw some of those 8x8x12 exos in the flesh yesterday.
> They're kinda like the 7 litre tropical fishtanks for shrimp/snails....Would look great as a planted tank on an office desk etc but totally unsuitable for *anything apart from insects*.


I was just thinking- maybe tiger beetles (although they're pretty active) or assasin bugs.


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## vitticeptus (Jul 16, 2008)

I dont think my Malaysian Jungle nymphs would fit in there lol .Do they really make them that small?


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## RhysJordan (Feb 21, 2011)

Exo Terra : Natural Terrarium Nano / Advanced Reptile Habitat

The smallest ones they make.


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## matt_mcmahon77 (Dec 3, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> They obviously think exo are the way to go though. Do you think they got their care guides are from them or had any training from exo?
> I do like their enclosures but the backgrounds just a playground for crickets to dig, hide, eat etc. And being glass sometimes a bit exposed for animals.


Yeah i use exo's for my tree frogs,however i dont use the background, i replace with my own. So far have used gorilla glue and eco earth, coco fibre and tree fern. My favorite is gorilla glue and eco earth. I dont think they will have got any training or care sheets from exo, its just exo's are cheap to make and easy to sell. Good profit margins.



vitticeptus said:


> I dont think my Malaysian Jungle nymphs would fit in there lol .Do they really make them that small?


Yes they brought them out this year, very pointless but people will buy them, thats all they care about


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## RhysJordan (Feb 21, 2011)

Could put one of these in a 30x30 ?

Virginia Cheeseman - Entomological Supplier - Miscellaneous Bugs - Tropical Leatherleaf Slug ( Laevicaulis alte) Juvenile


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## manda88 (Nov 27, 2009)

animalstorey said:


> They obviously think exo are the way to go though. Do you think they got their care guides are from them or had any training from exo?
> I do like their enclosures but the* backgrounds just a playground for crickets to dig, hide, eat etc*. And being glass sometimes a bit exposed for animals.


This is exactly why I hate the exo terra backgrounds! All the crickets do is eat them and leave gaping holes in them :devil: does my head in!! But then again crickets will eat just about anything, sodding little creatures.


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