# Amazon Tree Boa Heating



## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Hello, I just bought an Amazon Tree Boa, and I have some problems with the heating. My terrarium is 110 cm high, 60 cm wide and 50 cm deep, and only the upper 40 cm is the right temperature. The bottom is way to cold, only around 20 degrees celcius. I have an Exo Terra Intense Basking Spot 100W and a Zoomed Reptisun 5.0. Can someone please help me? I don't know how to add pictures but if someone explains that to me I will add some pics of my terrarium.
Please help me!!!!!:help:


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## snakess (Sep 3, 2012)

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/newbie-advice/112135-how-post-pictures-using-photobucket.html

Here's a thread on how to post pics


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks, I will upload some pics.
























On the last pic I put a circle around the thermometers. The upper one is at 30.5 degrees C and the lower one is at 22.7 degrees C. Can anyone give me some tips how to raise the ambient temperature some more? I also use the Heat Wave 8W Rainforest Medium from Exo Terra. It's underneath the bedding.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok first off, is there a guard round each bulb? This is necessary to stop the boa getting burnt or breaking the bulb.
Glass is crap for holding heat so you may find if you line 3 walls with coco fibre it holds heat in better. It will also make your boa feel more secure.
Heating tall vivs is difficult as well but most people use an ahs heater for this and just have one basking area higher up.

Sent from my ST18i


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

you would be better with a 3foot wide x 2ft high wooden viv for an atb


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't think I need a bulb guard yet, my snake is only about 45 cm long, and the guy from the store where I bought the lamps said that it is not nessesary if the snake does not go to the lamp. She only goes to the Uv-b lamp so that should not be a problem. what is a ahs?


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

when she does get to the bulb it will be too late


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Ok, but I live in the Netherlands, and I can't find one. Can I make one myself??


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

if you are handy then yes - if not I am sure you can get them on ebay or contact reptiles ink on here he may well post one out to you

I would really consider a viv not so tall and wider for the snake though


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

As Hannah has said - Coco fibre on the sides will help (even just one side changes everything) 
It will also take some time for the whole viv to heat up fully and every time the door is open this process will start again.

I have almost exactly the same style viv setup for a different species but the fundamentals are the same. 

You may find that if you cover over the glass on the top with something insulatory the temps will also rise.

I ended up putting a heat cable in the soil of the viv so that the bottom was heated but this made the middle of the viv the cold part and that was not very natural, so removed it and stayed with the larger thermal gradient. 
ATBs are not 'stupid' when it comes to thermoregulation, unlike some species, and so will not suffer from a broad gradient, as long as the temps they require are always available for them to move to.

Your setup looks very cool but as mentioned above, heating a tall glass viv can be very frustrating and ATBs will do just as well in a horizontally organised viv as well as vertical.

That viv is very cool indeed, I take it you are not in the UK? 

Tom


EDIT: You are in Holland I see


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

How thick does the coco fiber has to be? And if I cover the top, the ventilation stops. And no, I'm not in the Uk, I live in the Netherlands.


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## stark (Mar 13, 2012)

I also agree that it is unlikely the snake will ever get on the hot bulb, but it only takes them to attempt it once and that could be to late. A guard is safer than not.



stark said:


> You may find that if you cover over the *glass* on the top with something insulatory the temps will also rise.


:2thumb:

The thicker the coco fibre the better the insulation 

I do have a big love for that style of viv, ENT I belive is the name or style, shame they are not so available in UK.

Tom


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

The vivarium is costomly build, and I decorated the inside myself. I just bought wood and fake plants and stuff. What should I use to cover the top glass?


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Just cos the snake is a baby doesn't make it any less arborial, in fact it usually makes it more so.
Keeping reptiles in the netherlands is not a new thing. There are plenty of reptile pet shops there, guards should be available from any good shop.
Failing that there are plenty of online shops, ebay shops that now sell reptile equipment.

THe vivarium is very nice however it should be noted that this kind of viv is hard to heat and ATB's do use floor space as well as perches provided. You should try not to compromise on the floor space.

You could use a thin piece of wood to cover the top. If you drill some small holes in it first to make a ventilated area that would help with the vetilation issue.

An AHS is an advanced heating system. It's essentially a heater with a built in thermostat. They're widely regarded as very good heaters. THis WILL need a guard round it.

Or maybe a ceramic heater will be better that a heat bulb for the hot spot, but again this WILL NEED a guard and a ceramic fitting and heat proof cable as they get VERY hot and can melt plastic holders and normal wires, never mind what it would do to a snake who wraps around it.


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

the viv is too tall and made of the wrong material - it may be a pain but it is true


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Can I make a guard out of chicken wire? Could I use cork for the insulation of the top glass? I think that if I insulate the sides and the top with cork, I don't need another bulb. And it is not the wrong side, arboreal species like to climb, and if insulate the sides the material won't matter.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

AmazonTreeBoa said:


> Can I make a guard out of chicken wire? Could I use cork for the insulation of the top glass? I think that if I insulate the sides and the top with cork, I don't need another bulb. And it is not the wrong side, arboreal species like to climb,


You can make you're own provided it is strong enough yes. You can insulate with cork as well personally I'd look at what was the cheapest.

And yes arborial species climb but ATB also spend quite a bit of time on the floor, plus snakes don't know how to use a tape measure, they don't care if it's 4ft up in the air or 2ft up. The fact is your heating problems are due the it being so tall and made of glass. A not so high viv would improve the heating and your boa will still be fine, in fact better.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

But if I insulate it, and if the temperature is good so she can use the whole viv, then it's only better right? Because she has more room to move. 

I have another question. I have my snake since sunday and I forgot to ask when she last ate. I tried to offer her a pinky twice, but she wouldn't take it. When is she going to eat? Is it true that if she is hungry, that she will eat? Or should I try force feeding?


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

Leave the poor thing alone, you've offered it twice in 2 days is too much.
Snakes will not eat when stressed, moving house is very stressful to a snake.
Leave it alone without handling it or offering food for at least 7 days. Just change the water in a few days. Pestering the snake with food is more likely to put it off.
Do not force feed it, this is a last resort after months of trying other things and only when the snake starts to deteriorate.

What was it eating? 
Phone the shop where you bought it and ask them what it ate and when.

After 7 days offer a hot prey item similar to what it was eating before later in the evening, if it doesn't strike feed leave it on a perch over night, preferably cover the viv up.

I would also keep in mind that you may have to move it to a smaller home for now, some neonates can be a little nervous in larger vivs, it might be better in a smaller tub for a while while it grows a bit.


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

AmazonTreeBoa said:


> Can I make a guard out of chicken wire? Could I use cork for the insulation of the top glass? I think that if I insulate the sides and the top with cork, I don't need another bulb. And it is not the wrong side, arboreal species like to climb, and if insulate the sides the material won't matter.


the gaps in chicken wire will be too big and the snake will get through holes. I have been keeping arboreal snakes for many years and I can tell you, you really will struggle to provide the proper heat and humidity in a glass viv that is a metre high.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

sharpstrain said:


> the gaps in chicken wire will be too big and the snake will get through holes. I have been keeping arboreal snakes for many years and I can tell you, you really will struggle to provide the proper heat and humidity in a glass viv that is a metre high.


I found a shop that sells guards so I don't have to make one. Humidity is not a problem, it is at 75% now. I'm not going to buy another viv, because I'm only 16 and this one was pretty expensive (€225,-). I'm going to insulate it with 2cm cork, and I wil update the results.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> Leave the poor thing alone, you've offered it twice in 2 days is too much.
> Snakes will not eat when stressed, moving house is very stressful to a snake.
> Leave it alone without handling it or offering food for at least 7 days. Just change the water in a few days. Pestering the snake with food is more likely to put it off.
> Do not force feed it, this is a last resort after months of trying other things and only when the snake starts to deteriorate.
> ...


If I wait 7 days and she eats good, should I try to feed her 2 times in the week? Or less?


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

From looking at the size of the viv and teh set up, it is completely wrong for an ATB.
Firstly, if the snake is only 45 cm long, this would suggest it is a very young baby - the viv it is in is WAY too big. It should be in a small tub. 
Secondly, the heating method itself is wrong - how are you heating it at night? I hope you are not keeping the lamp on 24 hours a day as this will not allow any period of darkness. Which then means that the snake is left unheated overnight. ATB's come from a region which is warm and damp almost all year round, with almost the same conditions night and day, the only difference being that at night its dark!. You need to change from a spot light to a ceramic heater. This can then be left on 24 hours a day.
Thirdly the decor - for an ATB to feel secure it needs a network of branches, almost in a lattice for the snake to be able to rest on, rather than a few thick branches.
You also need to leave the snake well alone for a few days and then offer a warmed up pink (very warm), and gently wiggle it near by - dont shake it or tap the snake with it, just enough to get its attention. This should also be done in low light as these are nocturnal animals. Eventually, it will feed any time of day, but as a juvenile they tend to be happier feeding at night. 
As far as force feeding goes - DONT - unless you are already experienced with this. ATB's have very delicate jaws that could be easily damaged.
If your snake doesnt feed then I would strongly suggest that you rethink your husbandry until it is bigger and older.
I have a breeding trio that are in a viv only 2 feet high, and even then keeping the humidity up can be a challenge.
Dont forget that you also need to spray heavily every day with tepid water - most ATB's will not drink from a bowl, only from droplets.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

ian14 said:


> From looking at the size of the viv and teh set up, it is completely wrong for an ATB.
> Firstly, if the snake is only 45 cm long, this would suggest it is a very young baby - the viv it is in is WAY too big. It should be in a small tub.
> Secondly, the heating method itself is wrong - how are you heating it at night? I hope you are not keeping the lamp on 24 hours a day as this will not allow any period of darkness. Which then means that the snake is left unheated overnight. ATB's come from a region which is warm and damp almost all year round, with almost the same conditions night and day, the only difference being that at night its dark!. You need to change from a spot light to a ceramic heater. This can then be left on 24 hours a day.
> Thirdly the decor - for an ATB to feel secure it needs a network of branches, almost in a lattice for the snake to be able to rest on, rather than a few thick branches.
> ...


As I said, the humidity is not a problem. I use the bulbs 12 hours a day. Does a ceramic heater have a hot spot? And I heard that it's not bad if the temperature drops to 18-20 C at night. I am working on getting more plants and little sticks, and I spray every day. I also frequently check the humidity and the temperature. As I said earlier, I am not going to buy another viv. Maybe I can split it or something untill she is bigger. If you have any other advise, please tell me. Could you upload a pic of your viv so I can compare it to mine? And sorry if my english is bad, I am Dutch.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

You don't need to buy another viv, just get a smaller RUB (plastic box with a clip down lid), they're available from Staples or other good stationers and they're very cheap.
I find pieces of garden cane cable tied together and pieces of plastic trellis work very well for neonate arborials. These are not expensive.

As I've suggested before a ceramic heater would be better than a lamp and you don't need a uv light or the lamp, it will provide a hot spot yes.

Maybe you could get a shelf fitted into the viv 1/3 of the way down, then you have a bit of storage space and the viv would not be as high.

You need to provide what is best for the snake, not what you like the look of.

What you have created is nice however it simply isn't suitable for the species of snake you have bought.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> You don't need to buy another viv, just get a smaller RUB (plastic box with a clip down lid), they're available from Staples or other good stationers and they're very cheap.
> I find pieces of garden cane cable tied together and pieces of plastic trellis work very well for neonate arborials. These are not expensive.
> 
> As I've suggested before a ceramic heater would be better than a lamp and you don't need a uv light or the lamp, it will provide a hot spot yes.
> ...


I went to a reptile store before I bought the viv, and they recommended a higher viv because it is an arboreal species. I have an old 100w ceramic heater, it that to hot? How can I put the ceramic heater in a RUB? And how could I possibly make a shelf on a glass viv without glueing it into place?


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

You really should have done all this research before buying the animal.
Of course the shop told you to buy things you don't need - cos they need to sell things to stay in business, they don't care if it's right or wrong for the snake.
Once you've paid for it it's not their problem anymore.

When I said put a shelf in it I ment glue it in permanently.

How are you controlling the heat at the moment?
It should be on a thermomostat.

DO NOT use a ceramic without a thermostat, you will need a pulse or a dimmer stat for this. Ceramic bulbs can reach temps of over 200C.
You willl need to change the fittings and cables for ceramics ones as well.
Make sure the guard you get clears the bulb by a good few inches all round.

I think you'll find a 100W ceramic probably won't do the job, you my need 150w or higher.

Making a small tub is easy.
Once you've got the tub, cut the middle of the lid out. Stick a piece of metal mesh over the hole, glue it ot the top with sealant. Hang a lamp/ sit a dome lamp over one side of it. 
You will have to make this first then set it up and play with adding/reducing ventilation etc to get the correct temps and humidty before putting the snake in it.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> You really should have done all this research before buying the animal.
> Of course the shop told you to buy things you don't need - cos they need to sell things to stay in business, they don't care if it's right or wrong for the snake.
> Once you've paid for it it's not their problem anymore.
> 
> ...


I did research but there are a lot of different opinions on this subject, so I did not really know what to do. I have a digital thermometer and a digital hydrometer, and I have multiple bulbs, so if the viv is to hot or to cold I could switch the bulbs. How big should the shelf be? Half the size of the ground? I think that would be good so I could make a hotter side at about 28-32 C and a cooler side at about 25-28 C. And how large should the tub be?


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

AmazonTreeBoa said:


> I did research but there are a lot of different opinions on this subject, so I did not really know what to do. I have a digital thermometer and a digital hydrometer, and I have multiple bulbs, so if the viv is to hot or to cold I could switch the bulbs. How big should the shelf be? Half the size of the ground? I think that would be good so I could make a hotter side at about 28-32 C and a cooler side at about 25-28 C. And how large should the tub be?


:bash: I'm sorry but you can't control the temperature of a ceramic by changing the bulb. They can get to over 200C.
A ceramic NEEDS a thermostat to control that. Do not use a ceramic heater without a thermostat or a guard.

And by shelf I ment use a shelf to cut down the size of the viv, so it needs to be the dimensions of the inside of the viv.


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## AmazonTreeBoa (Oct 16, 2012)

Hannah81 said:


> :bash: I'm sorry but you can't control the temperature of a ceramic by changing the bulb. They can get to over 200C.
> A ceramic NEEDS a thermostat to control that. Do not use a ceramic heater without a thermostat or a guard.
> 
> And by shelf I ment use a shelf to cut down the size of the viv, so it needs to be the dimensions of the inside of the viv.


With bulbs I mean that I have normal bulbs, not ceramic. I'm going to buy some ceramic bulbs. And if I'm going to use a tub, do I need a Uv lamp? Because the ceramic bulb doesn't give light. And if I use a shelf that is the same dimension as the ground, then I couldn't do anything with the space underneath the shelf.


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

You don't need a uv lamp at all, ever.

And you don't need normal bulbs if you're getting a ceramic bulb.

You can just put a tub on a heat mat to make it easier, sit 1/3 of it on a heat meat controlled by a thermostat. ANY heat source should be controlled by the proper equipment or you are asking for touble.

You won't need so much ventilation in the tub either then.

Can you not put the shelf in the top 1/3 of the viv so you can use the space above it as storage?


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

any type of heating, bulb, ceramic, heatmat etc should all be controlled by a thermostat

I really dont care what the shop said - the viv isnt suitable end of


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

AmazonTreeBoa said:


> As I said, the humidity is not a problem. I use the bulbs 12 hours a day. Does a ceramic heater have a hot spot? And I heard that it's not bad if the temperature drops to 18-20 C at night. I am working on getting more plants and little sticks, and I spray every day. I also frequently check the humidity and the temperature. As I said earlier, I am not going to buy another viv. Maybe I can split it or something untill she is bigger. If you have any other advise, please tell me. Could you upload a pic of your viv so I can compare it to mine? And sorry if my english is bad, I am Dutch.


The humidity IS a problem - you said somewhere that it is at 75% - for a neonate is should be closer to 100%. The temperature should be fairly consistant 24 hours a day - this is a tropical species, not a temperate one. They are also nocturnal and more active at night, and for it to drop to 18/20C at night means that the nigh time temperature is too low.
With respect, I think that unless you make immediate changes to your husbandry this is going to end in disaster.


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## sharpstrain (May 24, 2008)

ian14 said:


> The humidity IS a problem - you said somewhere that it is at 75% - for a neonate is should be closer to 100%. The temperature should be fairly consistant 24 hours a day - this is a tropical species, not a temperate one. They are also nocturnal and more active at night, and for it to drop to 18/20C at night means that the nigh time temperature is too low.
> With respect, I think that unless you make immediate changes to your husbandry this is going to end in disaster.


 
You know when people come on a site to ask for advice and then find reasons to ignore it all!


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## Hannah81 (Nov 19, 2008)

ian14 said:


> With respect, I think that unless you make immediate changes to your husbandry this is going to end in disaster.


Hmm yes I'm beginning to think that'll be the next thread.



Sent from my ST18i


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## Diamondback (Aug 29, 2009)

AmazonTreeBoa said:


> I don't think I need a bulb guard yet, my snake is only about 45 cm long, and the guy from the store where I bought the lamps said that it is not nessesary if the snake does not go to the lamp. She only goes to the Uv-b lamp so that should not be a problem. what is a ahs?


I keep these snakes and also a GTP and I can tell you they will go on the bulb. Also my GTP suffered a burn from the UV lamp that I was using for sunlight by sitting on it to long I now have the UVB covered with a guard I made myself. 

This is what a uv bulb can do so just think what a heat bulb will do










He has recovered now but it's really not worth the risk


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