# enigma + normal =



## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

if you have an enigma and you breed it say to a normal leo..

do you end up with a 50/50 ? orr...


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

Assuming that the Enigma parent is only heterozygous (only carries one copy of the gene) then you would expect, on average, 50% het-Enigma (visual Enigma) and 50% normal offspring.


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

ok , thank you 

and the normal hold nothing to do with the enigmas do they?



HadesDragons said:


> Assuming that the Enigma parent is only heterozygous (only carries one copy of the gene) then you would expect, on average, 50% het-Enigma (visual Enigma) and 50% normal offspring.


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## BG-Gecko (Nov 12, 2007)

nope normals are normals and won't ever produce an enigma without being paired with one


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

thats what i thought, thanky



BG-Gecko said:


> nope normals are normals and won't ever produce an enigma without being paired with one


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

thats what i thought, thanky
when i got him, i didnt even know what an enigma was, i just knew she was pretty (the mum )
!! lol




BG-Gecko said:


> nope normals are normals and won't ever produce an enigma without being paired with one


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

HadesDragons said:


> Assuming that the Enigma parent is only heterozygous (only carries one copy of the gene) then you would expect, on average, 50% het-Enigma (visual Enigma) and 50% normal offspring.


sorry to but in, but if an "bell enigma" is a cross from 

mother enigma het bell &
father bell enigma

would the "bell enigma" carry one or two copies of the enigma gene

thanks


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

pmamhayes said:


> sorry to but in, but if an "bell enigma" is a cross from
> 
> mother enigma het bell &
> father bell enigma
> ...


1/3 chance of it having two copies; 2/3 chance of it having one copy. 

As far as I'm aware, no "super" form has been shown (the Enigma gene is fully dominant) so without breeding trials there'd be no way to tell.

There has been suggestion that Enigma x Enigma pairings produce babies that are more susceptible to the neurological-type problems shown by some Enigmas, so I don't know how advisable that particular pairing would be to either purchase / do yourself...


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

HadesDragons said:


> 1/3 chance of it having two copies; 2/3 chance of it having one copy.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, no "super" form has been shown (the Enigma gene is fully dominant) so without breeding trials there'd be no way to tell.
> 
> There has been suggestion that Enigma x Enigma pairings produce babies that are more susceptible to the neurological-type problems shown by some Enigmas, so I don't know how advisable that particular pairing would be to either purchase / do yourself...


do you know at what age the "problem" should show at


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

thank you everyone 
ill have to hunt down a mack enigma then, in a few years time!


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## HadesDragons (Jun 30, 2007)

pmamhayes said:


> do you know at what age the "problem" should show at


There's a lot of debate about that.

Have a read of http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/107161-neuro-problems-enigma-s-still.html - you might be able to get some ideas from that thread.

I should also add that the chances I posted up in my last post assume both parents are het-Enigma; if one / both are ****-Enigma then the chances change. You would be able to tell this depending on whether or not you got any non-Enigmas from the pairing.


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

HadesDragons said:


> There's a lot of debate about that.
> 
> Have a read of http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/107161-neuro-problems-enigma-s-still.html - you might be able to get some ideas from that thread.
> 
> I should also add that the chances I posted up in my last post assume both parents are het-Enigma; if one / both are ****-Enigma then the chances change. You would be able to tell this depending on whether or not you got any non-Enigmas from the pairing.


 
I am getting the Bell enigma, his perant line is Mother Enigma Het Bell X father Bell Enigma, so I need to ask the breeders if he had any non enigma sibblings? is this correct

thanks for link will read later

again sorry for hijacking thread


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

pmamhayes said:


> sorry to but in, but if an "bell enigma" is a cross from
> 
> mother enigma het bell &
> father bell enigma
> ...


 
if both enigma parents are heterozygous enigmas then you'll get
25% homozygous enigmas
50% heterozygous enigmas
25% non enigmas

if one of the parents are heterozygous then you'll get
50% homozygous enigmas
50% heterozygous enigmas

if both parents are homozygous then you'll get
100% homozygous enigmas

so if your baby male enigma from ps geckos was from the enigma x enigma pairing there's a 1 in 3 chance he's a ****, lets hope he still likes the girls lol


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## boywonder (Mar 10, 2008)

pmamhayes said:


> do you know at what age the "problem" should show at


 
circling and lack of co-ordination, bad balance etc are evident from hatching and in general, become worse until around one month of age, then the animal seems to begin to cope better, often becoming fairly normally behaved by adulthood, i wouldn't worry about your male from pete and sarah having issues, they have been very open and honest about any hatchlings with problems, they wouldn't sell you anything they weren't 100% happy was ok


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

boywonder said:


> circling and lack of co-ordination, bad balance etc are evident from hatching and in general, become worse until around one month of age, then the animal seems to begin to cope better, often becoming fairly normally behaved by adulthood, i wouldn't worry about your male from pete and sarah having issues, they have been very open and honest about any hatchlings with problems, they wouldn't sell you anything they weren't 100% happy was ok


 
no not worried at all they have been very accomodating, I'm hopeing to have some other stuff of them as well, we waiting on the eggs hatching.


thanks


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## pmamhayes (Jun 13, 2007)

boywonder said:


> if both enigma parents are heterozygous enigmas then you'll get
> 25% homozygous enigmas
> 50% heterozygous enigmas
> 25% non enigmas
> ...


thanks starting to get it now, and dont make laught I've got stichs in me belly


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