# Killing?



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Hi. I would like to breed mice for my BRB, but i donjt like the smashing head on wall thing as there might be an explosion of blood? Can i use the bicarb method?


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

ppl poison them with carbon dioxide i think..or is it mon oxide> infact..whats the difference? just google defined them and they have similar definitions... yeh i know..i shoulda paid attention at school.


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

I snap the necks of most but with rats and mice up to weaner size I will flick them in the head and it will crush the skull and they die basically instantly.


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

How do you snap their necks mate?


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> How do you snap their necks mate?


Hold the rear end firmly with my left hand, then hold just behind the ears with my right and pull your left hand to the left, right hand to the right.


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

So, like pulling a cracker with your slef then?


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

or like getting that last bit of...


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Surely if you twist its neck round like you would if you wanted to kill a human it would die quite quickly!!


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

DeanThorpe said:


> or like getting that last bit of...


 
Is that dirty? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

wouldnt twisting it right round take longer than doing as young gun described?
hey..whats a fraction of a second between friends..


----------



## DeanThorpe (Apr 9, 2006)

Tomcat said:


> Is that dirty? :Na_Na_Na_Na:


depends if you think of it as dirty.... or normal i guess


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

DeanThorpe said:


> depends if you think of it as dirty.... or normal i guess


Ok Ok, it MIGHT just be my dirty mind. But i still think you mean it as that


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> Surely if you twist its neck round like you would if you wanted to kill a human it would die quite quickly!!


I thought that, but the sharp pull from two different directions severs the spinal column and usually snaps some vertebrae in the process.

Im sure if you could get the angles right it would work better on a human the same way, I use the same method for rabbits, hares, pigeons, foxes etc.


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Are Gerbils fatty and addictive like hamsters? Or are they ok to be fed like mice?


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> Are Gerbils fatty and addictive like hamsters? Or are they ok to be fed like mice?


They are fatty and addictive but preferable over hamsters


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah, but on a human they're normally struggling more than a fox, pigeon etc. and it has to be assassination-style neck break not a food-kill neckbreak!!:lol2:


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

People dont just put them straight in the freezer alive do they? I think thats horrible. Im going to use the flick for babies, snap the neck for adults. Hi often would 1.2 have babies? And how many per Female each 'session'


----------



## Daredevil (Jul 10, 2007)

Na they kill them first unless its a pinkie in which case you can put them in the freezer straightaway!!


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Oh right ok.


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

bradhollands999 said:


> Na they kill them first unless its a pinkie in which case you can put them in the freezer straightaway!!


I kill my pinks first aswell before freezing.


----------



## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

bradhollands999 said:


> Surely if you twist its neck round like you would if you wanted to kill a human it would die quite quickly!!


The bit that matters in that isn't the twist so much as the force and upward pull


----------



## Drummerkid (Sep 24, 2007)

some ppl use carbon Dioxide chambers.


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

What is the minimum size tank for 1.2 mice?


----------



## TEZZA (Aug 25, 2007)

:bash: thats the answer ... use the hammer to smash the beep out of it:flrt:


----------



## Young_Gun (Jan 6, 2007)

Tomcat said:


> What is the minimum size tank for 1.2 mice?


I keep 1.3 in the hamster starter cages from Wilkinsons.


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

Ah wicked, ok. How many baby mice would i get from 1.2? And how many from 1.3? And how often?


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

lay the mouse on a table, hold it by the tail, pin it's neck down with a pencil and a sharp tug upwards by the tail...and viola! instant systems failure! simple, clean and instant, humane death. they won't even kick.:whistling2:


----------



## Tomcat (Jul 29, 2007)

The mice arnt only for breeding you no lol. I want them as pets too.


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

DeanThorpe said:


> ppl poison them with carbon dioxide i think..or is it mon oxide> infact..whats the difference? just google defined them and they have similar definitions... yeh i know..i shoulda paid attention at school.


The difference between carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide is one oxygen molecule... and a heck of a lot of toxicity.

Carbon monoxide in the atmosphere - even in relatively small amounts (0.04% - 400 parts per million) - is potentially lethal to humans as well as to rodents. It binds to the hemoglobin in blood better than oxygen does, which makes it impossible - even if there is sufficient oxygen in the environment - for your brain to get enough oxygen. Symptoms include, among other things, confusion, fainting, vomiting and head/chest pain. Low-level poisoning can be recovered from if the subject is removed from the contaminated environment, but may have long-lasting effects like urinary incontinence and permanent neurological damage. This is because the effects are cumulative - due to the binding to the hemoglobin. It only takes about 1% carbon monoxide atmosphere to kill within a few minutes.

Carbon dioxide is present in the atmosphere at a concentration around 300-400 parts per million globally; each breath you exhale is about 4.5% carbon dioxide. It is much less dangerous than CO - and from what I understand does not have the permanent effects if you're rescued from it. In my experience, done correctly using a CO2 canister with a regulator, rodents euthanised in this way experience very little stress - it takes minutes at most for them to die, and they do not exhibit stress behaviours prior to becoming unconscious.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> The difference between carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide is one oxygen molecule... and a heck of a lot of toxicity.
> 
> Carbon monoxide in the atmosphere - even in relatively small amounts (0.04% - 400 parts per million) - is potentially lethal to humans as well as to rodents. It binds to the hemoglobin in blood better than oxygen does, which makes it impossible - even if there is sufficient oxygen in the environment - for your brain to get enough oxygen. Symptoms include, among other things, confusion, fainting, vomiting and head/chest pain. Low-level poisoning can be recovered from if the subject is removed from the contaminated environment, but may have long-lasting effects like urinary incontinence and permanent neurological damage. This is because the effects are cumulative - due to the binding to the hemoglobin. It only takes about 1% carbon monoxide atmosphere to kill within a few minutes.
> 
> Carbon dioxide is present in the atmosphere at a concentration around 300-400 parts per million globally; each breath you exhale is about 4.5% carbon dioxide. It is much less dangerous than CO - and from what I understand does not have the permanent effects if you're rescued from it. In my experience, done correctly using a CO2 canister with a regulator, rodents euthanised in this way experience very little stress - it takes minutes at most for them to die, and they do not exhibit stress behaviours prior to becoming unconscious.


 
a pencil is cheaper!


----------



## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

HABU said:


> a pencil is cheaper!


The only problem I see with using manual neck-breaking methods is if you don't get it right first time, every time. If you think you can get it right - a clean kill - the first time you EVER try - and every time after that - then by all means use the pencil/screwdriver/twist-and-pull. If you have any doubts that you'll get it right - that you might not pull hard enough, that you might not break the neck on the first shot... then perhaps a less foolproof method is for you.

I have a moral problem with doing it wrong and causing an animal - no matter whether I mean to kill it or not - unnecessary pain.

I tried to euthanise a pigeon via cervical dislocation (using a piece of dowel, and two of us to manage it) ... and did manage to kill it... but we also managed to seriously upset everyone involved when not only did we break the rescue's neck but also decapitated the poor bird. Yes, it was certainly dead... but there are cleaner and less stressful ways to kill the animal, both for the animal AND for the person doing it. Yeah I'm a sensitive type. I still see that bird's eye looking up at me from a pool of blood, and it stresses me out that I didn't know at the time that carbon dioxide works just fine on birds too. It'd have been a much cleaner death.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Ssthisto said:


> The only problem I see with using manual neck-breaking methods is if you don't get it right first time, every time. If you think you can get it right - a clean kill - the first time you EVER try - and every time after that - then by all means use the pencil/screwdriver/twist-and-pull. If you have any doubts that you'll get it right - that you might not pull hard enough, that you might not break the neck on the first shot... then perhaps a less foolproof method is for you.
> 
> I have a moral problem with doing it wrong and causing an animal - no matter whether I mean to kill it or not - unnecessary pain.
> 
> I tried to euthanise a pigeon via cervical dislocation (using a piece of dowel, and two of us to manage it) ... and did manage to kill it... but we also managed to seriously upset everyone involved when not only did we break the rescue's neck but also decapitated the poor bird. Yes, it was certainly dead... but there are cleaner and less stressful ways to kill the animal, both for the animal AND for the person doing it. Yeah I'm a sensitive type. I still see that bird's eye looking up at me from a pool of blood, and it stresses me out that I didn't know at the time that carbon dioxide works just fine on birds too. It'd have been a much cleaner death.


 
i must be good!!! but then when you had to regularly do a bushel or two every other day......well, you get the hang of it!


----------

