# Deformity



## Harpez (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi, I have just had a bearded dragon hatch with a deformed lower jaw and looks to have some problems breathing, what would be best for the lizard? Is there a humane way of putting it out of its suffering?


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## chrisgard (Mar 25, 2008)

put it in the freezer in a tupperware tub, it will just go to sleep, its really sad but best for the little blighter if he wouldnt have a good quality of life


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

freezing reps? isnt that about as inhumane as you can get?


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

quickest, easiest, probably most humane way!


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## asm1006 (May 5, 2007)

Nope its terribly painful! I have read alot on this-trust me no freezer, please. If need be get a vet to humanley put it to sleep.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

yeah freezing is very painfull, i have read some very bad stuff about it, on here infact!


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## Harpez (Aug 3, 2008)

I will be totally honest here, i do not have the moneyto pay £40-£50 to visit a vet. I have red manny things on the net from freezing, chopping off heads and also feeding to the parents..... I also thought gas.... im compleatly stuck guys


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

it costs about 8 quid to get them put to sleep. especially that size.


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

I dont believe that...... but am open for you to educate me.
seriously.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

the freezing thing?

there is a thread on here about it


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## asm1006 (May 5, 2007)

Firstly check this outhttp://www.acuc.berkeley.edu/assets/guidelines/euthanasia.pdf

also if we have these animals then we have to find the money if needed for the vets, trust me I have spent over £200 this month on vets bills-and I can't afford it, but had to find it.

Vets locally charge about £15 for euthanasia.xxxx


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## cooljules (May 20, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> I dont believe that...... but am open for you to educate me.
> seriously.


what happens when you start to freeze water? same thing...


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

k..... will take a look...... thanks.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

If its about euthanising.............why not do it yourself..............only sure fire way is complete destruction of the brain.

Not nice, but if needs must......


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## shell2909 (Jun 30, 2008)

Crownan said:


> If its about euthanising.............why not do it yourself..............only sure fire way is complete destruction of the brain.
> 
> Not nice, but if needs must......


are we talking about reps or zombies?
i dont think thats the most humane way to go about it


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

shell2909 said:


> are we talking about reps or zombies?
> i dont think thats the most humane way to go about it


Humane means most instant with least suffering.............I think you cant get more humane at all. From what I hear vets arent even instant.............my suggestion would be.

Like I said, not nice.


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## shell2909 (Jun 30, 2008)

Crownan said:


> Humane means most instant with least suffering.............I think you cant get more humane at all. From what I hear vets arent even instant.............my suggestion would be.
> 
> Like I said, not nice.


i just hope i never have to find out 
sorry about your difficult position Harpez :grouphug:


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Crownan said:


> Humane means most instant with least suffering.............I think you cant get more humane at all. From what I hear vets arent even instant.............my suggestion would be.
> 
> Like I said, not nice.


 
i would have to agree with you.


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Well i still dont believe freezing would be a slow and agonising death. i still believe the animal would die or be comatosed before any expansion of fluids began due to freezing.


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## asm1006 (May 5, 2007)

I have had two reps PTS by vets and it was not instant, but it was very relaxed and no pain involved.

I also have had to get my husband to PTS an ill reptile when a vet wouldn't (rival surgery and other vet could not come out as was on an emergency)it was awful, and I only agreed to this out of desparation. As he used to be a gamekeeper I knew he had the skills. But I would only do that as a last resort.x


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

kennedykrew said:


> Well i still dont believe freezing would be a slow and agonising death. i still believe the animal would die or be comatosed before any expansion of fluids began due to freezing.


Would you like to be frozen to death?


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## shell2909 (Jun 30, 2008)

Crownan said:


> Would you like to be frozen to death?


yeah but would like to be stamped to death (im assuming thats the only way i see possible to destroy the brain)


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

shell2909 said:


> yeah but would like to be stamped to death (im assuming thats the only way i see possible to destroy the brain)


i'd rather have my head instantly crushed by a giant hammer than slowly freeze to death


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

shell2909 said:


> yeah but would like to be stamped to death (im assuming thats the only way i see possible to destroy the brain)


Or a mallet, or a brick, or a stamp (as long as it wa hard enough and heavy enough to do the job instantly and out right)

I'd far prefer a sudden and instant death that I didnt know was coming over being left in a dark room and slowly frozen!

Edit: Great minds Fishyman!!


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> Well i still dont believe freezing would be a slow and agonising death. i still believe the animal would die or be comatosed before any expansion of fluids began due to freezing.


Fill a bucket half with water then fill to the top with ice cubes... immerse your arm and see how long before your in agony.. then think how it would feel to not be able to escape from that pain, this is how it feels to freeze to death, not a very nice experience, and not humane as its slow and excrutiating (sp)


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## macca 59 (Oct 10, 2007)

asm1006 said:


> Nope its terribly painful! I have read alot on this-trust me no freezer, please. If need be get a vet to humanley put it to sleep.



Have to agree, you must take it to the vets, the welfare of the animal is most important. Any other option may cause even more distress and suffering.


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## shell2909 (Jun 30, 2008)

fishboy said:


> i'd rather have my head instantly crushed by a giant hammer than slowly freeze to death


id prefer to go to the vets and be put down, but by the sounds of it the op cant afford it. hope he finds a solution


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

shell2909 said:


> id prefer to go to the vets and be put down, but by the sounds of it the op cant afford it. hope he finds a solution


Even if there was a possibility that this wouldnt be instant either? Why prolong it?


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Crownan said:


> Even if there was a possibility that this wouldnt be instant either? Why prolong it?


 
not everyone likes getting thier hands dirty. they would rather pay someone else so they don't feel bad. fair enough. i'm not really fussed. what needs to be done needs to be done : victory:


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

FoxyMumma said:


> Fill a bucket half with water then fill to the top with ice cubes... immerse your arm and see how long before your in agony.. then think how it would feel to not be able to escape from that pain, this is how it feels to freeze to death, not a very nice experience, and not humane as its slow and excrutiating (sp)


But wouldnt the fact they are cold blooded and their whole body would be in the cold make things 'happen' a lot quicker? if you know what i mean?


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## shell2909 (Jun 30, 2008)

fishboy said:


> what needs to be done needs to be done : victory:


yeah thats what my OH says, if i ever come across this kind of problem ill leave him to do it.


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## Magik (Jul 22, 2008)

As it says on that link posted earlier there are no studies that show cold cold-blooded reptiles have a higher pain threshold than properly heated ones


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Magik said:


> As it says on that link posted earlier there are no studies that show cold cold-blooded reptiles have a higher pain threshold than properly heated ones


so we dont know then?!?


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## Magik (Jul 22, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> so we dont know then?!?


Nope but I would rather be safe than sorry


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Magik said:


> Nope but I would rather be safe than sorry


yeah, i see what you mean, but did those tests etc say how long freezing took to euthanise the animal?


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> But wouldnt the fact they are cold blooded and their whole body would be in the cold make things 'happen' a lot quicker? if you know what i mean?


they still have fluids in their body, the fluids cristalize during the freezing process and aparently the brain is the last thing to freeze so would be in pain through the entire process, i think id rather be beaten to death personally, or even decappitated... yet I have read that snakes can still live for an hour or so after being decappitated does this apply to lizards? (sorry for being so graphic)


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

FoxyMumma said:


> they still have fluids in their body, the fluids cristalize during the freezing process and aparently the brain is the last thing to freeze so would be in pain through the entire process, i think id rather be beaten to death personally, or even decappitated... yet I have read that snakes can still live for an hour or so after being decappitated does this apply to lizards? (sorry for being so graphic)


hmmmm... i dont know which sounds most gruesome now???? lol i wouldnt like to be stamped on!!!!


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## Magik (Jul 22, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> so we dont know then?!?


It didnt mention time frames at least i dont think so??


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## Harpez (Aug 3, 2008)

Hay guys thanks but I really do not want to cause a massive debate to weather reps will feel the pain or not, the thing is I have removed the tail from a badly damaged beardie 7 weeks on he is doing great... I really thought there was an easy answer to this and its not only to do with the money side of it either, I would lose my job by taking a day off to take it to a vet. Its not a nice thing to do but im not sure if I should leave it until tomorrow until I make any decisions.


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## Woodi (Oct 11, 2007)

You don't freeze any animal..........what toot's.

Here is the easy and fast way.

Get the wee dragon and wrap him in toilet paper, take him into the garden, place the package on the grass and hit it Twice with the flat end of the spade then bury the wee pet.
Fast and Humane, no mess or upset if you do it right, use the spade then to dig the hole...Don't look inside the tissue.....:notworthy:


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## FoxyMumma (Jun 29, 2008)

kennedykrew said:


> hmmmm... i dont know which sounds most gruesome now???? lol i wouldnt like to be stamped on!!!!


Well I still think being frozen would be the most painfull, drawn out way to die..


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

This is a bit of a icy area :whistling2: .This link on one hand say's freezing to euthanaian is a no!no! as it's painful.But then say's you can freez reptiles to anestetized them ??But would't anestetizing them shut down there nerver system = no pain ??.

As far as i know when rep's get cold they star to driff into hibernation with only having a small amount of there brain working to keep the heart going really,really slowly.Any colder they stut down(concussion)'etc'etc.

CLINK THE LINK.
Euthanasia of reptiles


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## asm1006 (May 5, 2007)

Thing is if you need to aneathetize (sp) in order to freeze, better to do that then inject. Job done. But if emergency situation then the garden spade theory would be the best altho I imagine quite nasty to have to do.x


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## Woodi (Oct 11, 2007)

I used the spade technique with my Koi carp, was the easiest way for me and seemed the least painful as long as you give it a good wack. Wrapping it in tissue hides the gastly deed being done by the pet and yourself.


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## kennedykrew (Jul 31, 2006)

Woodi said:


> I used the spade technique with my Koi carp, was the easiest way for me and seemed the least painful as long as you give it a good wack. Wrapping it in tissue hides the gastly deed being done by the pet and yourself.


and saved a few unecessary
vet fees too!:notworthy:


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## Woodi (Oct 11, 2007)

kennedykrew said:


> and saved a few unecessary
> vet fees too!:notworthy:


True, I don't like doing it but transport fish to the vets to be nobbled, nah don't think so.:whistling2:


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## aie_boa (Nov 7, 2007)

best way for you and rep vets euthanised !!! if your strugging to pay the £10 or watever it is, im willing to help for the beardies sake !!!if not then i think you should go for some of the options stated but i do not agree with freezing its the most painful and humane way imo!!


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## aie_boa (Nov 7, 2007)

Woodi said:


> True, I don't like doing it but transport fish to the vets to be nobbled, nah don't think so.:whistling2:


in my opinion fish are totally different to lizards snakes etc i would easily be able to euthanise a fish compared to a beardie, snake etc not being funny and not trying to stur an argument but, i dont feel for fish as much as i do for lizards and snakes:notworthy::notworthy:


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## Boobman (Apr 2, 2008)

Harpez said:


> Hay guys thanks but I really do not want to cause a massive debate to weather reps will feel the pain or not, the thing is I have removed the tail from a badly damaged beardie 7 weeks on he is doing great... I really thought there was an easy answer to this and its not only to do with the money side of it either, I would lose my job by taking a day off to take it to a vet. Its not a nice thing to do but im not sure if I should leave it until tomorrow until I make any decisions.


 
Haven't you got a vets open weekends? or evenings?

I'm sure you could take the time to get this done the most appropriate way then without work being interupted...

Poor little thing... :flrt:


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## ichis-mom (May 25, 2008)

have you tried calling the animal walfare people i dont know but im sure they will be able to deal with it if you tell them the problem because thats what there there for


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

Harpez said:


> I will be totally honest here, i do not have the moneyto pay £40-£50 to visit a vet.


Could you not just take it to the vet and leave it there ??.The vet i use to work at only charge if you wanted to take the body back-(like with dogs & cats & rabbits'etc) for the kids/family to bury.But if you sign the aniamal over to the vet she would put it to sleep at no charge to you.Would this be somthing your vet would do ??.


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## Kimmy173 (Aug 2, 2007)

How can you afford to breed from your animals and yet not have enough to deal with consequences of that action? Vet is the most humanely manor of euthinasing the little one


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## ladybird (Sep 9, 2006)

I watched a show on National Geographic a while back about what it's like to die from extreme temperatures, they looked at baking to death in a hot desert and freezing to death in a cold place like the antarctic. Basically they looked at survivor's accounts of nearly dying like this (usually where there's two of them and only one survived, and what it felt like at the various stages and what their partner told them what they felt before they died) and they also got scientist's overview of what happens to the body and mind during the process. They also told you how to survive/avoid that kind of situation.
I can't remember all the details, but to sum it all up, dying from extreme heat is horribly painful, they are extremely dehydrated, confused, splitting headache, seizures etc..., and dying from extreme cold is relatively pleasant. First the person starts shivering, hands go numb, goosebumps etc, then after that they have a warm sensation, and then they start more extreme shivering, mildly confused, can't use their hands properly, then after that they stop shivering, they go into a stupor, and they want to go to sleep so they go to find a small place to curl up. Of course, when they go to sleep they don't wake up. So that's why it's important for people with hypothermia to stay awake. Apparently it's not painful after the point where they feel the warm sensation.

Obviously reptiles are different since they are cold blooded, but I'm pretty sure they will still go to sleep quite soon after their temperature drops (is it not a hibernating instinct?).
I think people who do use the freezer should look at the animal when they take it out again and see if it is contorted or looked like it was writhing around. If it is, then obviously reptiles don't suffer the same symptoms when dying from cold and they probably do feel pain. But if it just looks normal or it's curled up in the corner or something with its eyes closed then it would seem that they do go to sleep the same way people (and other mammals) do when they die from the cold. Or better yet, find a way to watch it while in the freezer, that way you'd know for sure cause you'd be able to observe its behaviour

Pretty morbid topic, but there's my contribution!


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

kennedykrew said:


> I dont believe that...... but am open for you to educate me.
> seriously.


 
it crystalizes the blood.. which is an extremely painful way for an animal to die

BUT back to the thread starter....


i think its ridiculous not being able to afford a tenner.. yet happily breeding.. sorry but what if your female needed vet help.. would she be left to die because you didnt have the cash to have her cared for..

if you cant afford exotic reptile vet and health care you shouldnt have them in my opinion... sorry but its true

a vet wont charge 40 pounds exotic vet fee for a euthanisation.. they charge on average 9.50

what if they all needed vet attention or special care... what if your breeding animal had got egg bound and needed an operation to save its life.. sorry to be harsh but breeding is a HUGE comitment not just time wise but financially..

people REALLY need to think before they breed... it makes me wonder what on earth folk are thinking about.,.

I mean would you have a child without food clothing and a cot..

:bash:


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## wendy77 (Sep 13, 2008)

Harpez said:


> Hay guys thanks but I really do not want to cause a massive debate to weather reps will feel the pain or not, the thing is I have removed the tail from a badly damaged beardie 7 weeks on he is doing great... I really thought there was an easy answer to this and its not only to do with the money side of it either, I would lose my job by taking a day off to take it to a vet. Its not a nice thing to do but im not sure if I should leave it until tomorrow until I make any decisions.


 Sorry it i come acros as a nag but why breed if you dont have the time/money for the babies?


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## Natonstan (Aug 9, 2008)

I saw a 2 tailed Anole in the snake shop in Sheffield once , seemed pretty happy!:2thumb:


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

this thread is shocking, i can not begin to even imagine some of the things mentioned here!! I can not believe that "animal lovers" would even contemplate some of this barbaric ways to "euthanaise" animals!!!!!! I understand that people dont have spare cash for vets etc but vets will make allowances, for the sake of a maximum of 15 pounds to put your animals to sleep in a pain free relaxed way what is the problem?

If you intend to breed you should definatley have the funds available for this type of situation, more so than just keeping pets. why breed if you cant afford to provide for situations like this? 

This is really very concerning


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## Salamanda (May 28, 2008)

dax said:


> this thread is shocking, i can not begin to even imagine some of the things mentioned here!! I can not believe that "animal lovers" would even contemplate some of this barbaric ways to "euthanaise" animals!!!!!! I understand that people dont have spare cash for vets etc but vets will make allowances, for the sake of a maximum of 15 pounds to put your animals to sleep in a pain free relaxed way what is the problem?
> 
> If you intend to breed you should definatley have the funds available for this type of situation, more so than just keeping pets. why breed if you cant afford to provide for situations like this?
> 
> This is really very concerning


well said :no1:


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

thanks salamander, i would be very interested to hear if people disagree with this? i have had vet bills run into thousands in the past, not just for reps but also my dogs, i can not even begin to imagine some of the :censor: posted in this thread. I used to have a very high opinion of 90% of the people on here and have recommended this site to so many people but when i read stuff like this it really saddens me!


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*Wow*

well said why breed i you cant afford i have just said to the person giving away a free piglet with a nasty gash they shuld take to the vets if it survives bring it down here i have never had a rep or ever wanted one but i will take it to the vets if needed im sorry if you are hard up so am i hun but these poor little animals need as much love as we do


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

yeah! every animal is equal, including us! all deserve the same attention.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

MELINDAGIBSON said:


> well said why breed i you cant afford i have just said to the person giving away a free piglet with a nasty gash they shuld take to the vets if it survives bring it down here i have never had a rep or ever wanted one but i will take it to the vets if needed im sorry if you are hard up so am i hun but these poor little animals need as much love as we do


No need to bring this into the thread. She isn't getting rid of the piglet because of the injury but because it would starve to death and she simply doesn't have the time to handrear. Lets not hijack two threads over the same topic eh. 

As for some of the methods mentioned in here..i'm pretty shocked tbh. Personally I couldn't do anything but take it to the vets to be euthanised, i'm to soft.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

thats not soft, surely thats responsible?


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

im sure its now illegal to have an animal/rep that needs vet attention and NOT get that animal/rep vet attention. if thats the case its also illegal to euthanise the animal/rep yourself i would think. freezing is an extremely painful way to kill anything. best take it to the vet.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Well yeah it is the responsible thing tbh. I must admit I did think it was illegal butterfly but wasn't 100% sure.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

illegal or not, surely its the right thing to do?

This thread started because someone needed a "humane" way.

I hope that inexperienced reptile, or any animal, keepers are not reading this. It really is shocking.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Katiexx said:


> Well yeah it is the responsible thing tbh. I must admit I did think it was illegal butterfly but wasn't 100% sure.


aye they brought that law out a couple of years ago. and they will prosecute if they catch anyone. i couldnt do any off those things anyway, im afraid its vet everytime. what if what they had or have is treatable. i couldnt forgive myself if something died and i hadnt had it treated, or humanely pts.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

dax said:


> illegal or not, surely its the right thing to do?
> 
> This thread started because someone needed a "humane" way.
> 
> I hope that inexperienced reptile, or any animal, keepers are not reading this. It really is shocking.


or anyone from the RSPCA etc!!!!! this is all they need.


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## dax (Aug 11, 2008)

exactly, 90% of keepers dont think like this but its the minority that will get us shot!


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## spikemu (Jul 5, 2008)

i say before this become a super cyber mob of angry ,but smart reptile lovers (well the ones who say euthanase by vets anyway) you should take it to a vets on a weekend or after work. please for the sake of urself,the mob , and MOST importantly the lil beardie that is still suffering because you cant figure what to do.. sooner the better.... i would hate to see any rep or animal for tht matte in pain with no chance of having a god life.




MELINDAGIBSON said:


> well said why breed i you cant afford i have just said to the person giving away a free piglet with a nasty gash they shuld take to the vets if it survives bring it down here* i have never had a rep or ever wanted one* but i will take it to the vets if needed im sorry if you are hard up so am i hun but these poor little animals need as much love as we do


so why are you a member of a reptile forum ??? lol ( i dont mean it horrible but i just thought its a weird thing to say on a reptile website(well 90% of it ) lol)




but back 2 topic 

VETS!!!!!


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

dax said:


> this thread is shocking, i can not begin to even imagine some of the things mentioned here!! I can not believe that "animal lovers" would even contemplate some of this barbaric ways to "euthanaise" animals!!!!!! I understand that people dont have spare cash for vets etc but vets will make allowances, for the sake of a maximum of 15 pounds to put your animals to sleep in a pain free relaxed way what is the problem?
> 
> If you intend to breed you should definatley have the funds available for this type of situation, more so than just keeping pets. why breed if you cant afford to provide for situations like this?
> 
> This is really very concerning


Barbaric? Are you stupid? How can instant death be barbaric in anyway? How can INSTANT death be anything other than humane? 

Do you actually know how they put reptiles to sleep at the vet? Im guessing not. There are plenty of threads on here which would say that euthanising a reptile via lethal injection is far from humane, pain free OR reaxed.

Its got nothing to do with the cost. If it only cost £15 (which I have no idea) and you cant afford £15 then you have no place keeping reptiles in the first place.

And as for money and breeding. Sod the breeding. If you intend to KEEP reptiles, let alone breed them then you must ensure that you have the funds to cover ANY eventuality. If you do not, then you have no place keeping them at all.

:werd:


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Crownan said:


> Barbaric? Are you stupid? How can instant death be barbaric in anyway? How can INSTANT death be anything other than humane?
> 
> Do you actually know how they put reptiles to sleep at the vet? Im guessing not. There are plenty of threads on here which would say that euthanising a reptile via lethal injection is far from humane, pain free OR reaxed.
> 
> ...


i know how all my animals are pts if they need to be, cause i stay with them till they have gone.
and whether you think its barbaric or not, the fact remains its against the law. my wee jack russel had to be pts just before christmas. are you telling me, that instead of him lying in my arms, and getting a wee kiss from me AND the vet, then slowly falling asleep, i should have taken him out the back and battered him with a shovel???? cause i dont think so mate. all these methods are barbaric, the only one which gives the animal some dignity is being euthanised by a vet, and its the only way the law says it must be done.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

butterfly said:


> the only one which gives the animal some dignity is being euthanised by a vet, and its the only way the law says it must be done.


Actually, euthanasia can legally be done by anyone if it is done as humanely as possible and in order to prevent suffering - you do not have to be a veterinarian to do it.

If you did, then RSPCA inspectors (who are not always vets) would not be able to euthanise animals, nor would people who breed rodents for their snakes.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Ssthisto said:


> Actually, euthanasia can legally be done by anyone if it is done as humanely as possible and in order to prevent suffering - you do not have to be a veterinarian to do it.
> 
> If you did, then RSPCA inspectors (who are not always vets) would not be able to euthanise animals, nor would people who breed rodents for their snakes.


Yeah i was going to say that, we euthanise rodents for snakes.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

the only time a person who is not a vet can euthanise is in an emergency, and with them bringing out the new law, i dont know yet how this now goes. ie. out riding, horse breaks a leg, you can then find and ask for a liscensed shooter to shoot the horse. the rspca have vets working alongside them. quite possibly, in fact i would say it is, you euthanising your rats and mice is illegal. but done in the privacy of your own home, and not shouted about on forums, then who knows you do it. 
well we all now you do it now.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Slaughterhouses like the one on Gordon Ramsay's tv shows don't require vets.

Are you sure Lynne?

Honeybrook foods don't use vet's to kill their foods either. 

Nerys, who is quite clued up with the law, breeds her own food for the snakes as well, as do a decent number of people who use this forum.

Fisherman are allowed to kill their catches as well


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

i think it getting a bit outrageous. slaughterhouses dont need vets, but they are rigorously vetted by vets. i know this because my vet does this. we are talking about animals who quite obviously need a vet but the owners are not supplying this need. it is now against the law to have someone who is not a vet treat an anumal. nerys is in england, where some rules are differant. ie in england you can still dock dogs tails, in scotland you cant.
pet shops are liscensed by the councils, but vets go and do the checks. slaughterhouses are also liscensed. 
this threads about someone asking for a quick cheap way to euthanise his deformed rep. which in my opinion is disgusting. all animals deserve dignity. the only legal way is for him to get a vet to do it. 
my vet also goes to the local cow/horse/sheep markets to oversee these. so they do get about you know. 
quite honestly if i were to go out the back and belt something with a shovel......i dunno if i could live with that myself.


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

Fisherman are allowed to kill their catches as well 
__________________

i know. my oh is a fisherman. of the netting kind.


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## royalpython (Nov 16, 2006)

Ok got ya


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## spikemu (Jul 5, 2008)

has the OP decided wat to do yet ????????????????????????????

has he dun it yet ????????

poor little beardie


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## Reptilerescueden (Jan 2, 2006)

Harpez said:


> I will be totally honest here, i do not have the moneyto pay £40-£50 to visit a vet. I have red manny things on the net from freezing, chopping off heads and also feeding to the parents..... I also thought gas.... im compleatly stuck guys


Sorry but I feel if you don't have money for a vet then you shouldn't really be keeping any.


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## fishboy (Aug 7, 2007)

butterfly said:


> Fisherman are allowed to kill their catches as well
> __________________
> 
> i know. my oh is a fisherman. of the netting kind.


 
What's the difference between killing a healthy living fish with a sharp blow to the head, and killing any other animal for whatever reason in the same way? Is one more barbaric than the other? Sorry, but i disagree with your differentiation of the two things here and i find it slightly hypocritical saying one is okay and one isn't.


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

butterfly said:


> i know how all my animals are pts if they need to be, cause i stay with them till they have gone.
> and whether you think its barbaric or not, the fact remains its against the law. my wee jack russel had to be pts just before christmas. are you telling me, that instead of him lying in my arms, and getting a wee kiss from me AND the vet, then slowly falling asleep, i should have taken him out the back and battered him with a shovel???? cause i dont think so mate. all these methods are barbaric, the only one which gives the animal some dignity is being euthanised by a vet, and its the only way the law says it must be done.


1. You obviosuly dont know what Im talking about RE: Reptiles and PTS. Go have a read.

2. Trying to kill a Jack Russel by 'battering him with a shovel' and killing a small reptile with a swift sharp blow are two completely different things. One IS Barbaric and one IS humane.

Open your mind a little. :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*ok*

:zzz::Na_Na_Na_Na:


Katiexx said:


> No need to bring this into the thread. She isn't getting rid of the piglet because of the injury but because it would starve to death and she simply doesn't have the time to handrear. Lets not hijack two threads over the same topic eh.
> 
> As for some of the methods mentioned in here..i'm pretty shocked tbh. Personally I couldn't do anything but take it to the vets to be euthanised, i'm to soft.


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## Metal_face (Oct 2, 2008)

Harpez said:


> I will be totally honest here, i do not have the moneyto pay £40-£50 to visit a vet. I have red manny things on the net from freezing, chopping off heads and also feeding to the parents..... I also thought gas.... im compleatly stuck guys


havent read all the pages on here so dont know is any1 has mention it but..............WHY THE ARE YOU BREEDING REPTILES IF YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOOK AFTER THEM PROPERLY!!!! a vet is gunna charge £20 max to put the lizard to sleep


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## stubeanz (Mar 28, 2007)

i agree if you are breeding reptiles it is your responsability if something goes wrong a few years ago i brought some leos off a dodgy wholesaler and turns out they had crypto, it past onto my hatchlings that year and in the end i had to have them all put to sleep so that it would not pass onto my adults. 
i hadnt planned this but as i they were under my care it was my responsability to pay for them to be put to sleep.
remember these animals are kept in captivity and we are privaledged (sp?) to own them and so because of that we need to provide what ever care they need and if that is the 20 pounds or what ever that the beardie needs to be put to sleep you should pay it.
what would you do if that was a dog? would you find a way of getting 20 quid (im sure you would), its no different, both animals can feel pain.

just my 2 pence worth
stu


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## vickylolage (Oct 5, 2008)

how do people know that injecting a reptile with whatever doesnt hurt? my mate just had her beardie put to sleep n the vet reckoned she injected him with stuff for a cat or dog which would put him in a coma then inject his heart with morphine so he died in affect in his sleep through a heart attack, but personally i think it sounds horrific.


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## stubeanz (Mar 28, 2007)

yes its the same stuff as for cats and dogs but ive seen i done many times they die quickly and although i must admit hatchlings seem in a bit discomfort (because the amount hey have to inject) larger reptiles dont seem to and pass away quite quickly.
much better than freezing (eyes freeze etc) cut head off (a reptile can live without oxygen for a lot longer than a mammal and so is effectivly still alive without a body until their brain runs out of oxygen) crushing (just ewwwwww plus could go wrong).
stu


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## Charlottie (Oct 4, 2008)

i have read all the pages and it sickens me that some people think it is okayy to tek thier rep and wrap it in some tissue and then smash its head how dare they all animals should be treated the same
i also argee with every1 that has that if you cant afford one simple vet trip then dont keep animals never mind breeding them. Freezing or battering is not an option unless the animal is in extreme n i mean very extreme pain and thereis no possible way of your going to the vets or the other way round !!!

im sorry but the people who think that battering it over the head is unacceptable as no animal should be treated this way, if you where seriously ill and you had a choice of a painless ingection or haveing your head beaten with a shovel which would you choose and dont go on bout how reps n humans are different i know they are but animals should be given the same respect !!!


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*Hello*

I had turantulas 



spikemu said:


> i say before this become a super cyber mob of angry ,but smart reptile lovers (well the ones who say euthanase by vets anyway) you should take it to a vets on a weekend or after work. Please for the sake of urself,the mob , and most importantly the lil beardie that is still suffering because you cant figure what to do.. Sooner the better.... I would hate to see any rep or animal for tht matte in pain with no chance of having a god life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MELINDAGIBSON (Sep 8, 2007)

*Hello*

Is it still alive or is it resting in peace ?


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## Enexus (Aug 31, 2008)

I read about the freezing and i think its disgusting. Imagine if someone put you in a freezer to die. I wouldnt start looking after reptiles if you cant pay the vets bills.


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## RedGex (Dec 29, 2007)

Just wanted to add my opinion on this. Sometimes hatchlings (leos) are not viable, and it is apparent immediately. If I had two choices -

Remove the leo, wait for a vet appointment (emergency appointment or not) box the leo up and take on a stressful journey (in our cse an hour), to be examined and then put to sleep (I don't know that would even be painless).

OR

See the leo has severe problems and end its suffering instantly, with out it even having to be taken anywhere, so it never had to suffer or know anything about it. 

I know what I would choose, and it is not to do with vet fees. The sole aim of euthanasia is to end suffering humanely and instantly. The resulting 'mess' or guilt of the owner as they feel it was not dignified, should not come into it. I believe dignity for an animal is giving it the respect enough to take the responsibility to end its suffering as soon as possible. With a small reptile this is very simple and can be done with no chance of mistakes. I would like to add I do not believe freezing a reptile is a painless and humane method of euthanasia and I would never consider it as an option.

Note I am talking about small reptiles in this instance....


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Charlottie said:


> if you where seriously ill and you had a choice of a painless ingection or haveing your head beaten with a shovel


Total brain destruction is more humane for the reptile than an injection that merely stops their heart and makes their brain stop working through oxygen deprivation.... it's faster, if nothing else.

I am quite aware that the first gecko I took to the vet to be euthanised was almost certainly sedated and then pithed (heated metal probe stuck up through the roof of the mouth to addle the brains) as injections of barbiturates do NOT always ensure death in reptiles.

That said, only someone who CAN guarantee immediate brain destruction should even be trying - and that would be a vet who has been trained in what to do and can give appropriate sedation beforehand.


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## eeji (Feb 22, 2006)

i too agonised over the very same issue a few years back with a hatchling corn snake.

After much research, i found that freezing is an extremely painful death. there is no 'automatic hibernating instinct'. As they get colder, their metabolism slows right down as a _survival_ instinct, so they would actually live longer in a freezer than a warm blooded animal. as the ice crystals form inside the body, the reptile will still be concious and be in extreme pain.

I also learned that also due to the slow metabolism in reptiles that decapitation is also extremely inhumane. the brain can live for anything up to two hours on the oxygen present in the head alone, so again will still be registering extreme pain.

Other than the lethal injection, the only other humane way is total destruction of the brain. This is instant death with no stress FOR THE ANIMAL which is the important thing.

This is the method I chose (I won't describe my method here, because there are far too many people with closed minds), and yes, I felt awful after doing the deed but part of me always knew it was the best way.

and thats my 2 cents


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