# Soft hearted silly buggers



## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

Me and timberwolf found a robin busilly making her nest in the barn. She was near the door, but so long as we didnt go too close she ignored us. Not wanting to move the nest or risk upseting her, we'd always left her alone, not bothering to check on her more than a vague look in from a distance.

Every day we'd see her coming and going, until a few days ago... she just stopped coming back to her nest.... Today timberwolf decided to check the nest as she had hadn't seen the mother in a while. She found 4 little baby robin mouths all desperatly looking for food.

Unable to leave the little ones alone in the barn to starve to death, we have taken them into the house. They are now in a spare glass vivarium with a little bit of heat coming in from a heat mat, and Reiyuu has started them on a half hourly feeding routine, of which they have happily eaten mushed up mealworm.

We plan on growing them on enough so that they can be let loose into the wild asap! We dont want pet robins, we just want them to have a chance at life seeing as their mother has flown the nest 

I'm sure I'm going to get no end of people saying that we shouldnt have taken them in, we should have left them, that we shouldn't have disturbed the nest in the hope that the mother would come back in another few days, but I think the 3-4 days since we've seen the mother is enough to say that her babies were at risk. So, if you really want to flame me go ahead, but I for one can not let a life go when I can possibly do something to save them.


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## Andy Nightingale (Apr 6, 2008)

Don't blame you at all-would of done the same-nice one:2thumb:


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

and me too, i cut down a tree once and didn't realise there was a nest.....:blush: the mum didn't return so the babies went to the vet and they fed them up till they were ready to leave.

have also come across plenty of injured animals and have taken them to the vet.....they are used to me now :whistling2:


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

They have now had 2 feeds of mashed mealies and a little luke warm water. they have now settled in for the night under a black shirt to mimck night time. They will be woken at 8 tomorrow morning with a breakfast of mashed mealies and waxies with vitamin and mineral supplements as has been suggested on a couple of bird sites in their sections on raising baby birds of brittish native species.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

aww good luck with them!


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## Sueg65 (Aug 14, 2006)

Well done for giving them a chance, hope all goes well with them.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Thats so sweet i dont blame ya i think i would have had to do the same too good on ya for helping them out : victory:


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## Mizzi (Mar 2, 2008)

I would have done the same as well, my mum would have as well, :no1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Rain said:


> I'm sure I'm going to get no end of people saying that we shouldnt have taken them in, we should have left them, that we shouldn't have disturbed the nest in the hope that the mother would come back in another few days, but I think the 3-4 days since we've seen the mother is enough to say that her babies were at risk. So, if you really want to flame me go ahead, but I for one can not let a life go when I can possibly do something to save them.


Absolutely not!! How could you leave them out there to starve to death?

You've totally done the right thing. If something has happened to the mother, then the chicks would die - instead you are giving them a chance of a life. If, on the other hand, nothing has happened and the robin does come back and they are gone, she'll go on and have another clutch of eggs. So then you have 2 lots of babies added to the robin population.

At the Sanctuary where I work we get loads of nests of babies brought it. Once they've grown on a bit and we come to feed them, we find they stand on the edge of the nest and flap their wings, feeling their way towards flying and that means they're nearly ready to release.

Once they can fly we carry them outside and let them fly off from our hands. If you are only feeding and not handling they'll release great.

Good on you for doing this: victory::no1:

Please keep us updated with their progress and some piccies would be great!!!


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Sadly 4 became 3 as the runt of the cluch died. It did eat last night but refused this mornings feed [feeding hourly through the daylight hours]

They have come to work with me with a heat mat and stat n their little nest in an exo terra to continue their feeding. The 2 gannets I hold high hopes for but the third still seems a little lethargig but we'll see how things turn out.

: victory:


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

Hey, I've had to rear baby birds brought in by the cats and brought in to my dad's vets. One thing i will say is that with 4 young chicks to feed the mother is probably out most of the day getting insects for them, and it is possible you have missed her. I just hope you did adequate surveilance to check she really wasn't around. With all the cats people keep (myself included) it is very possilbe she was eaten, so hopefully you have done the right thing, and good luck with raising them. I will stress that people should really make sure the mother isn't around, I mean watching the nest for a good few hours solid, and not take baby birds they see on the ground, just keep your cats in if you do see them. Also it is illegal to take many species from the wild. Again, good luck.


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

also you need to be getting up in the night and feeding them or they get too weak to eat. Consider that the mother will be up as soon as dawn breaks to feed them, and stops when the sun goes down. sorry about the death.


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

lol thanks Missk  Yes the mother is definatly gone.. we found the barn cat had had her. Also the amount of time we spend in that barn we noticed the lack of mum quite quickly. 

They are now getting fed whenever i can so they can get their strength up


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Rain said:


> Me and timberwolf found a robin busilly making her nest in the barn. She was near the door, but so long as we didnt go too close she ignored us. Not wanting to move the nest or risk upseting her, we'd always left her alone, not bothering to check on her more than a vague look in from a distance.
> 
> Every day we'd see her coming and going, until a few days ago... she just stopped coming back to her nest.... Today timberwolf decided to check the nest as she had hadn't seen the mother in a while. She found 4 little baby robin mouths all desperatly looking for food.
> 
> ...


 I'm afraid you have done a very bad thing. Just because you haven't seen the mother, doesn't mean that they are not being fed since both parents will be feeding them. If they had not been fed for 4 days as you imply, they would all be dead and not have a healthy gape reflex. Incidentally, baby birds don't gape just when they are hungry, it is a reaction to any shadow falling over the nest. I am very unhappy to hear that you have taken these babies because it was a stupid and illegal thing to do and you will kill them all. 
I make no apologies for being so flipping angry. I have had to deal with this sort of stupidity for years and suffer the heartbreak as I do rescue. Some I can rear and release, a lot die.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Reiyuu said:


> lol thanks Missk  Yes the mother is definatly gone.. we found the barn cat had had her. Also the amount of time we spend in that barn we noticed the lack of mum quite quickly.
> 
> They are now getting fed whenever i can so they can get their strength up


 How did you find out that the barn cat had 'had' her given that she must have 'had' her 4 days ago and eaten her? What about the male bird?


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

We have never seen a male bird and we found the red chest feather, wing tips and legs thatthe cat always leaves.. also she made her nest less then 2 feet from the floor and near a door.. 

3 days including today.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I'm afraid you have done a very bad thing. Just because you haven't seen the mother, doesn't mean that they are not being fed since both parents will be feeding them. If they had not been fed for 4 days as you imply, they would all be dead and not have a healthy gape reflex. Incidentally, baby birds don't gape just when they are hungry, it is a reaction to any shadow falling over the nest. I am very unhappy to hear that you have taken these babies because it was a stupid and illegal thing to do and you will kill them all.
> I make no apologies for being so flipping angry. I have had to deal with this sort of stupidity for years and suffer the heartbreak as I do rescue. Some I can rear and release, a lot die.


 
I am irritated at your response. I appreciate that you do rescue, but please credit the rest of us with a little bit of sense. I can categorically state that the parents have deserted the nest, one of the robins is quite definitely a victim of the cat, and there period of abandonment is approximately two days. The nest was built barely two feet off the ground and right behind the barn door. It was inevitatble that we disturbed this poor family every time we went in, we train our hunting dogs in there, and the cat knew they were there. The wonder of it is that she managed to hatch the poor things at all, Last years clutch was laid between two hay bales and I accidently crushed the eggs. This robin was a regular visitor over the last two years and I knew when she was there, as I have regularly fed her, and I feed the local pheasants out of my hand. She IS NOT THERE! Do not give me any "you have done a very bad thing" crap, the alternative was for these mites to starve under my eyes. I have lived in the country most of my life and am well aware of the habits of nesting birds, I farm 28 acres of land with a conservation lake and we breed pheasants to shoot for the pot. The hatchlings were cold and hungry, and had been observed for the previous 24 hours. PLEASE do not assume that we are all inept simply because you dont know us! 

Oh yes, and I also rescue horses!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> I'm afraid you have done a very bad thing. Just because you haven't seen the mother, doesn't mean that they are not being fed since both parents will be feeding them. If they had not been fed for 4 days as you imply, they would all be dead and not have a healthy gape reflex. Incidentally, baby birds don't gape just when they are hungry, it is a reaction to any shadow falling over the nest. I am very unhappy to hear that you have taken these babies because it was a stupid and illegal thing to do and you will kill them all.
> I make no apologies for being so flipping angry. I have had to deal with this sort of stupidity for years and suffer the heartbreak as I do rescue. Some I can rear and release, a lot die.


Bloody hell - that's a bit harsh!! And you do not know that they will kill them all at all - how dare you suggest that! I have dealt with people who will bring a nest in or a baby within minutes of finding it - that is silly!

This OP observed the nest for a long time and didn't see any activity at all. When feeding chicks birds are in and out,in and out most of the day continuously. They've observed and seen nothing and had cause for concern - if anything they've waited too long before intervening if they've waited 2 days or more!

I can't believe that you can come back on a thread like this so aggressively, irrespective of your personal rescue situations!!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Timberwolf - we cross posted as your response wasn't there when I began posting my response.

Good on you!! People are too quick to assume others' ignorance nowadays.


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

Essentially 
1) they carefully observed the nest to ensure the parents were not there. As readers of this post, we cannot assume that their surveilance was inadequate, we must take their wird for it
2) There is no reason these babies will die if they are prepared to fully embrace the responsibility of caring for them, i.e. getting up in the night every 3 hours or so to feed them as well as intensive daytime feeding.

Instead of an emotion fuelled outburst fenwoman, you should use this opportunity to put key points accross to everyone who reads this who may one day find themselves in the same situation. Namely... It is illegal to take baby birds from the wild, it may be illegal to release them if they are not a long standing native species (not a bird, but for example you cannot release a grey squirrel), if you do believe it is necessary (after INTENSE observation where it is obvious that without intervention the birds will die) to 'rescue' the birds that you are taking on a huge resposibility and you will have to get out of bed in the middle of the night to feed them or they WILL die.

Having reared birds since the age of 11 (brought in to my dad's vets) to the age where they can be released i can say it is very hard work but very rewarding. 

To Timberwolf, there are specially formulated softbill diets (i think robins are softbills) available through bird shops which will give the babies a nice balanced diet.

Again good luck, ignore people who are destructive and not constructive.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

missk said:


> Essentially
> 1) they carefully observed the nest to ensure the parents were not there. As readers of this post, we cannot assume that their surveilance was inadequate, we must take their wird for it
> 2) There is no reason these babies will die if they are prepared to fully embrace the responsibility of caring for them, i.e. getting up in the night every 3 hours or so to feed them as well as intensive daytime feeding.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks you guys for your support, Frankly, I'm far too old to be bothered or insulted by hysterical outbusts, I am confident I did the right thing and my consience is absolutely clear on this one, but I honestly appreciate the constructive advice and will souce this softbill diet immediately.


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Thank you again Missk. I was unaware of the diet but going on what a few bird sites have told me. I will look for these bird formulas this lunchtime in my LPS and of I cant find them I will order them. I dont care about getting up for them in n the night as long as they survive.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

good luck with them do both male and female robins have red breasts i thought only the male did


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

both male and female have red breasts.

Buy Softbill Food TM from Haiths Wild Bird Foods

this is the stuff i think

or this one

Universal Softbill Food at UKPetSupplies.com


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Excellent! Thank you so very much for your help Missk


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

They both have Red Breasts I believe. TimberWolf we to deal with rescues but pass our birds over to a lady who specialises in them. I think you have done the right thing. How could anyone have left them to die. Fenwoman you are wrong to critisise when you dont even know the full story.


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## ferretlad (Mar 6, 2008)

Right or wrong Timberwolf...you have done what i would have done, gave the baby Robins a second chance, and that can only be seen as a kind gesture to the Robin population. These gorgeous little birds are on the decline and need all the help they can get. Hope all goes well for the remaining ones.


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## adamntitch (Jun 17, 2007)

thanks learn something new everyday lol

good luck with them


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

How are the babies doing? Good news I hope: victory:


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

yep, the news is good, the three remaining babies are thriving, we lost one on the day we picked them up, sadly it was a little too far gone to save, but the other sickly one is recovering well, all have a healthy gape reflex now, they are all chirping once more, and they seem to be growing before our eyes. So now as well as 2 snakes and a tank of pet gerbils in my office, we now have 3 baby robins during the day too! We'll keep you posted on progress and take some pictures too.. god they're ugly! lol


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

That's great news - well done!

It's the strangest thing isn't it, birds are just such pretty creatures, but they are so when they are young, they're very prehistoric aren't they?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Keep up the good work. I agree about them being ugly a bit like Teradactyls(sp) yet once they start to feather up they are so pretty and cute


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

feeding like gannets.. even the shrimpy one I was expecting to lose has perked up and is now gapeing at every meal time. They are now beginning to open their eyes and their featers are coming through, some orangey coloured ones around the chest and some orangy brown oned on their backs.. will try and get some decent pics soon for you all. They have little feather afros so cute but wierd!
All currently fast asleep in their nest in a faunarium on my desk.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

timberwolf said:


> I am irritated at your response. I appreciate that you do rescue, but please credit the rest of us with a little bit of sense. I can categorically state that the parents have deserted the nest, one of the robins is quite definitely a victim of the cat, and there period of abandonment is approximately two days. The nest was built barely two feet off the ground and right behind the barn door. It was inevitatble that we disturbed this poor family every time we went in, we train our hunting dogs in there, and the cat knew they were there. The wonder of it is that she managed to hatch the poor things at all, Last years clutch was laid between two hay bales and I accidently crushed the eggs. This robin was a regular visitor over the last two years and I knew when she was there, as I have regularly fed her, and I feed the local pheasants out of my hand. She IS NOT THERE! Do not give me any "you have done a very bad thing" crap, the alternative was for these mites to starve under my eyes. I have lived in the country most of my life and am well aware of the habits of nesting birds, I farm 28 acres of land with a conservation lake and we breed pheasants to shoot for the pot. The hatchlings were cold and hungry, and had been observed for the previous 24 hours. PLEASE do not assume that we are all inept simply because you dont know us!
> 
> Oh yes, and I also rescue horses!


 I have not revised my opinion. If the nest was in such a precarious position, I would wonder why they even began to nest there if it is as busy as you say. If you knew it was being built in such a precarious place, could you not have destroyed the nest before it was built properly, to force them to build elsewhere in a safer place. Pity the pair of robins started visiting 2 years ago and are now dead isn't it?
After hand rearing not only lots of wild birds, but my own parrots, I categorically do not agree that after 2 days without food and being chilled, these nestlings would not have the strong gape reflex you described. Within only 5 hours of getting chilled, they would be actinig like any chilled reptile (reptiles and birds evolved from the same source and can get similar diseases too) and be totally lethargic, almost to the point of being comatose.
I appreciate that you thought the adults were gone, and you quite fancied trying to hand rear some birds but I'm afraid, I'm always a bit cynical when people say something, then try to defend their actions by bringing out 'facts' when someone questions them. A quick death would be prefereable to dying slowly from being mishandled. BTW, you should never give baby birds water.
Should I ever see some horses in the field, or a foal who is laying in a field being apparently ignored by the dam, should I 'rescue' it, and feed it on hay? I don't think so and would expect to get a rocket off someone like yourself, who knows more about horses than I do, having had no epxerience with them, other than owning a couple of them over the years (driving ponies).
I can understand why you took offence. Heck I would too if someone shot me down in flames. Perhaps if and when the babies all die, and you calm down, you might see that I could possible have had a point.
Lucky you to have 28 acres. Pity you to farm pheasants.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

give over fenwoman, whats done is done. Dont be so tiresome. I really dont appreciate your sarcasm but I refuse to trade insults with you. By the way, The baby birds havent been given water. Again, dont presume you are the only one capable of handling wild creatures. They had almost no gape reflex, and one died the same day. 

If you saw horses in the field starving and sick, I would expect you to recognise it and act accordingly. I note that you eat Turkey, presumably bred by yourself. Why should eating homebred pheasant be any different?

You yourself call yourself a dotty old woman, please, therefore, act your age and do not insult my intelligence.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

missk said:


> Essentially
> 1) they carefully observed the nest to ensure the parents were not there. As readers of this post, we cannot assume that their surveilance was inadequate, we must take their wird for it
> 2) There is no reason these babies will die if they are prepared to fully embrace the responsibility of caring for them, i.e. getting up in the night every 3 hours or so to feed them as well as intensive daytime feeding.
> 
> ...


 Obviously I have not the advantage of having a father who is a vet. However, I have bred parrots for some years and hand reared the babies, aswell as hand rearing wild birds (the hardest was a housemartin). Baby birds do not need to be fed during the night. Wild birds are not fed through the hours of darkness. They do need feeding dawn to dusk though and this may mean for 18 hours a day.
In addition, I have many wild birds which nest in my mature hedges. I know the nests are there and I know if there are nestlings there too, but don't very often see the parents feeding them. I'm too bust doing chores for one, and they tend to avoid going to the nest when a predator (human) is about. That's a normal method of defending the babies, by not allowing the predator (human) to locate the nest by staying away from it while the predator is about.
I did get really upset about the thread as I am crazy about birds. How many other people keep around 150 chickens of various breeds yet can't abide eating eggs <gag>. I take in wild birds every year, often only after the person who found it has kept it for several days, tried forcing adult worms, and water into it, then bringing it to me only once it is on it's way out. Emotional? Yes, you bet I get emotional.Only a complete mental case, would not.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Obviously I have not the advantage of having a father who is a vet. However, I have bred parrots for some years and hand reared the babies, aswell as hand rearing wild birds (the hardest was a housemartin). Baby birds do not need to be fed during the night. Wild birds are not fed through the hours of darkness. They do need feeding dawn to dusk though and this may mean for 18 hours a day.
> 
> I did get really upset about the thread as I am crazy about birds. How many other people keep around 150 chickens of various breeds yet can't abide eating eggs <gag>. I take in wild birds every year, often only after the person who found it has kept it for several days, tried forcing adult worms, and water into it, then bringing it to me only once it is on it's way out. Emotional? Yes, you bet I get emotional.Only a complete mental case, would not.


why are you assuming (again) that you are the only one who has ever done anything like this? And emotional sentimentality doesnt help anything. Practical advice would have been so much more useful than this sentimental twaddle. As it happens, you've not helped in any way shape or form, which suggests to me you are more interested in flaming someone you THINK knows nothing, instead of practical advice from your obvious depth of knowledge which may have helped the babies you profess to be so concerned about.

Sadly I have learned nothing from you that I didnt already know, and my shoulders are far too broad to be bothered by you and your sniping. Whats done is done. Get over it.


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## missk (Jan 14, 2008)

*pah!*



fenwoman said:


> Obviously I have not the advantage of having a father who is a vet. However, I have bred parrots for some years and hand reared the babies, aswell as hand rearing wild birds (the hardest was a housemartin). Baby birds do not need to be fed during the night. Wild birds are not fed through the hours of darkness. They do need feeding dawn to dusk though and this may mean for 18 hours a day.
> In addition, I have many wild birds which nest in my mature hedges. I know the nests are there and I know if there are nestlings there too, but don't very often see the parents feeding them. I'm too bust doing chores for one, and they tend to avoid going to the nest when a predator (human) is about. That's a normal method of defending the babies, by not allowing the predator (human) to locate the nest by staying away from it while the predator is about.
> I did get really upset about the thread as I am crazy about birds. How many other people keep around 150 chickens of various breeds yet can't abide eating eggs <gag>. I take in wild birds every year, often only after the person who found it has kept it for several days, tried forcing adult worms, and water into it, then bringing it to me only once it is on it's way out. Emotional? Yes, you bet I get emotional.Only a complete mental case, would not.


I find it laughable that you rear baby parrots, taking them from their parents who are more than capable of looking after them to rear so you can sell them easier to the pet trade and in the same breath admonish these people for taking in truely orphaned wild babies, you hypocrite. For the record, I have also had pet birds and have no problem with hand-rearing baby parrots but i wouldn't criticise people who do it through true need at the same time. I suggest you read some literature on the rearing of small wild birds which seems on the whole to suggest night feeding is necessary/beneficial. 

If you are going to criticise at least make it constructive. Dont get upset reading a thread where the people caring for the chicks have been trying to get the best advice to care for them properly, so they don't end up at your door on the way out.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> How many other people keep around 150 chickens of various breeds yet can't abide eating eggs <gag>.


Excuse me - am I the only person on this thread who is thinking hypocrite?

Have you not got posted as part of your signature, advertising to the whole forum

_*2 turkeys (Joseph and Mary. I ate baby jesus at Xmas)*_

So you can't eat an egg, (which is an unformed baby chicken) but you can eat one of your turkeys because it's Xmas??

I think it's time you got off this thread and left it to the people who care about the robin chicks and are offering constructive advice rather than castigating the people who have tried to help them!!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

well i think its fantastic what they have done for these lil birds 

they found mum dead so what were they to do hey leave the babies to die?

i dont think even you would have done that fenwoman................


At the end of the day 3 of the babies are thrieving so they must be doing something right and i say good on them : victory::no1:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

feorag said:


> Excuse me - am I the only person on this thread who is thinking hypocrite?
> 
> Have you not got posted as part of your signature, advertising to the whole forum
> 
> ...


 
well said couldnt agree more with you there 

: victory:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I totally agree, someone who calls a turkey a religious name then eats it for dinner has no right to even comment on someone who is helping unfortuanate baby birds to survive


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## Kathryn666 (Dec 16, 2007)

Good luck with the wee birds guys :no1:

Don't be too hard on fenwoman, she does live in the fens and it does funny things to you cos it is so flat (oxygen levels me thinks!!) :crazy:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Good Morning I hope and how are your nestlings getting along??


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

I took some pics this morning, hang on and I'll load them into photobucket.

They have different names every day, day one they were all called batman, day two they were all called Pete, day three was Gobby, and todays name is Stretch..



(where's that blasted cable....)


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

No doubt one day they will be called Dave like everyone else on this forum lol


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Meet the uglies  faces only a mother or surrogate mother could love


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I must be their mum then coz I love them. You are doing a really good job and anyone DARE to say any different. They look great and are obviously thriving under your care. Wont be long now and they will all be sat on the edge of the nest begging for food with lots of wing flapping WELL DONE :no1:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

awwwwwwww they look to be coming on a treat : victory:


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> I must be their mum then coz I love them. You are doing a really good job and anyone DARE to say any different. They look great and are obviously thriving under your care. Wont be long now and they will all be sat on the edge of the nest begging for food with lots of wing flapping WELL DONE :no1:


Already had one escapee this morning.. it managed to fidget itself out of the nest and into the surrounding hay for an ecplore. heheh now back in with the siblings and sleeping untill they wake up hungry again 

They are gonna be Dave tomorrow


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

They're looking great - you're doing a wonderful job. It's really not easy, many of the ones we get in at our Sanctuary with little or no feathering do die. Once they're up a little and have some feathering our success rate increases dramatically.

I just love it when I open the incubator lid and all I see is huge yellow mouths


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## hanhan (Aug 18, 2006)

Been following this thread out of interest and think you guys are brilliant for caring for them, anyone who says you have done wrong needs their heads looked at!!

those pictures are hilarious...you should called that one Fidget!


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

thank you SOOO much everyone, Kat (reiyuu) has worked so hard with these little mites, its wonderful to get the support. I'm so proud of her..


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## scotty123 (Sep 16, 2007)

well done mate! hopefully fenwomen will be proved wrong and these cute little guys will be the next generation of robins nesting in your barn!


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Aww thanks Timberwolf xXx they are all doing fabulous and keep trying to explore!


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Shell195 said:


> I totally agree, someone who calls a turkey a religious name then eats it for dinner has no right to even comment on someone who is helping unfortuanate baby birds to survive


 So sorry to offend you. I didn't realise that you were a churchgoer or vegetarian.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

timberwolf said:


> . I note that you eat Turkey, presumably bred by yourself. Why should eating homebred pheasant be any different?


 I don't rear the turkeys so that they are almost tame, then chase them about in order to make them fly in order to pepper them with lead shot, get a dog to grab them in their mouth and bring it back to me so that I can then kill it.


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

I told you Fenwoman, I have no intention of getting into a slanging match with you over this or any other issue. These birds are cared for and have a good life. I would also point out that they are not caged, they are organic and free range, and not shot for fun, they are killed for the pot. Pheasant with gooseberry sauce is very nice by the way if you'd like the recipe? I promise there are no eggs in it.

Why are you trying to pick a fight over my way of life, which is the way the countryside has been for generations when the issue at stake here is baby robins? Get a life before its too late!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

If you have nothing postitive to say about the wonderful job that Kat has done keeping these babies alive then dont bother posting 

Its yet another thread where someone has done something postitive thats trying to be turned into a negative :bash:

So if you dont want to leave a nice comment then dont leave one at all 

Just my opinion :whistling2:


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

timberwolf said:


> I told you Fenwoman, I have no intention of getting into a slanging match with you over this or any other issue. These birds are cared for and have a good life. I would also point out that they are not caged, they are organic and free range, *and not shot for fun*, they are killed for the pot. Pheasant with gooseberry sauce is very nice by the way if you'd like the recipe? I promise there are no eggs in it.
> 
> Why are you trying to pick a fight over my way of life, which is the way the countryside has been for generations when the issue at stake here is baby robins? Get a life before its too late!


no, they're just not shot. most members of that shoot couldnt hit a barn at 20 paces!!! lol


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

Rain said:


> no, they're just not shot. most members of that shoot couldnt hit a barn at 20 paces!!! lol


LMAO!!! You are not wrong!,


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

timberwolf said:


> I told you Fenwoman, I have no intention of getting into a slanging match with you over this or any other issue. These birds are cared for and have a good life. I would also point out that they are not caged, they are organic and free range, and not shot for fun, they are killed for the pot. Pheasant with gooseberry sauce is very nice by the way if you'd like the recipe? I promise there are no eggs in it.
> 
> Why are you trying to pick a fight over my way of life, which is the way the countryside has been for generations when the issue at stake here is baby robins? Get a life before its too late!


 I'm not trying to pick a fight honest. You posted and I replied, thinking that you were just another such as I get all the time bringing me nestlings to rear when they should have been left. In your initial post you said they had a strong gape reflex and didn't mention that you knew the parent birds had both been killed. I can only deduce from what is written after all.
As for your country credentials, I too am a country woman, been smallholding and producing my own food for over 20 years. On the one hand you seem to be accusing me of not being sentimental enough to appreciate your wanting to save these birds, and on the other hand, too sentimental about shooting birds.
Your way of life is probably similar to mine although I have never supported blood sports of any kind and am a member of the LACS.
No thanks to the pheasant. I dislike the taste of it, just as I dislike the taste of eggs, although I don't have a problem with wild, head shot, rabbits in season as they don't have any contact with humans, are truly wild, and if lamped, don't know what hit them.
I really really do hope that these babies make it and would be happy to offer any advice re their feeding and rearing, that I can . The hardest part will be the release as they will not be afraid of you, will hang about and likely become a snack for your barn cat. Tough call and now that you explained more than you did initially, I can see why you did it.
Are there any wild bird rehab places in your area? They will not only have experience in raising them but will be offer a safe release into new cat free territory.


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> and didn't mention that you knew the parent birds had both been killed. I can only deduce from what is written after all.


I'll be honest here, I personally didnt know that the parents were killed. I was only putting what I knew as the OP.

As for releasing them, the only idea I had towards it is that they wont be scared of Reiyuu (because she feeds, cleans etc) so it would be someone else (i.e me or timberwolf) who released them, as we have had little to no direct contact with them


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

Thank you, I appreciate your reply and your points of view. Indeed there is a wild bird rescue centre not too far away in Broadway and I did take a young woodpecker there a couple of years ago after the cat.(same cat, sadly she doesnt catch rats.) had mauled it. Regretfully that didnt survive the journey.

With regard to blood sports, on a personal level I think it is abhorrent that pleasure is taken in the killing of any animal. I have however no objection to the killing of an animal for food provided it is done with compassion. I dont personally shoot, hunt or fish though members of my family do, on the other hand I'm happy to dress birds or gut a trout as required. There is indeed a fine line between sentimentality and practicality, particularly as the need to cull foxes locally becomes more pressing. I for one wont be joining the anti's but neither will I be cheering them on.

With regard to the robins, should there be any areas you feel you could give practical advice if and when it comes to a release for these little birds we would welcome it. For the moment, they will be staying where they are, they seem to be doing ok.


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Thank you Fenwoman. If i come across any problems I wont be afraid to ask. I have a nice place planned for their rehab and their release when they are old enough well away from the cats terratory. A very fair way away.

As Rain said its only ever me who deals with them so I will not be their for their final release. It will be sad, but its the right thing as I dont want them to hang around me whentheres a new big life out there where they should be.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Fenwoman I am not a Churchgoer but yes I am a vegetarian. Not that I feel it has anything to do with you. You always seem to think that attack is the best form of defense which ever forum you go on. Constructive advise would have been more help than the critical abuse that you typed. You dont know me and I dont know you and quite honestly Im glad as deep down I dont think you are a very nice person. In future perhaps you could think before you type and unless you are being helpful dont bother to reply


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## GlitterBug (Mar 31, 2008)

Years ago I met a robin in a graveyard *the graveyard was near my old school* he was a funny little fellow, he was bald, just his head. The rest of him was fine and feathered. But we all used to laugh when we seem him hopping along the fence in the mornings, we called him Tom after my moms ex boyfriend, he was fald and funny looking.

He was there for a few years and then he vanished. 

I see less and less robins each year, I think I seen two this year and none last year, you did a great thing for those birds.


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## ferretlad (Mar 6, 2008)

Glad to see the babie's are doing well, and nice pics too :no1:. Timberwolf if you read this post...can i be very cheeky and ask for the Gooseberry sauce recipe, as it sounds rather delicious and i am quite partial to a bit pheasant. Thanks.


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## sammy1969 (Jul 21, 2007)

I have read this post completely and i must say i am really glad that you rescued and are raising these sweet little birds which are sadly fast disappearing from our countryside. YOu most certainly did do the right thing and from the pictures you have posted we can all see they are thriving under your care and i hope that they do make it to adulthood and release. As for the poster critising you for what oyu are doing i am sure that if they had read the post properly in the first place they would of realised this was not a case of not thinking but a case of careful observation and caring for the welfare of the abandoned chicks. You are obviously well experienced in the care of rescued wildlife from what i can see and this was not a desiscion you took lightly and i think you should be really pleased and proud with what you have accomplished. I wish oy uluck with the continued rearing of these chicks and hope that oyu keep us all updated with there progress
Sam


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Good news this morning? I hope Dave is all doing well


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Me too!


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

Yeah. Dave, dave and dave are doing fine


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

The Daves are doing fine, one is now noticeable smaller then the otther two thuogh and i'm afraid he may not make it. I hop his food extra small and make sure that he gets just as much as the others but he just isnt growing


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Oh no Poor little Dave Fingers crossed he will make it. At least you have given them all a chance of life. Handrearing anything is never easy


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Any Ideas On What I Can Do To Get Him Eating Properly? He's Begun Spitting Out His Food Even The Fine Chopped Stuff


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## Reiyuu (Sep 21, 2007)

Little update.. the baby who isnt doing so well is going to go for treatment at a local wildlife santuary and vet to give him a better chance then I can. though the other 2 will stay with me as they are doing fine and need no help. I just want to give the littlest one the best chance he can have


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

OK, update.. Little runt appears to have a respiratory infection and has given up eating though the other 2 are still piling it on. We have spoken to Vale Wildlife rescue and are taking little squirt there this lunchtime for treatment. They have said they are happy for us to continue raising the other two, which was rather nice!

Further Update to follow later today



Ah! Kat beat me to it....


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Fingers crossed for little Dave. At least the other 2 Daves are doing well


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

I'll let Reiyuu and Timberwolf tell you all the details as I wasnt there, but in short the rescue have taken all 3, and refused to let Reiyuu continue raising them.


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## Esarosa (Jul 13, 2007)

Rain said:


> I'll let Reiyuu and Timberwolf tell you all the details as I wasnt there, but in short the rescue have taken all 3, and refused to let Reiyuu continue raising them.



that's a shame you had done a really good job so far. Is it possible they took all three as the little one had something that could effect the larger two? If so it'd make sense for them to take them all i suppose. Treat them all at once n what have you.


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## Rain (Oct 9, 2007)

I believe it was a case of "the little one will do better with his siblings, can we please have them, by the way, nice job on looking after them, you should be proud, bye"


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## timberwolf (Oct 26, 2007)

OK. when I phoned the rescue centre they seemed happy for us to keep the other two. We took them along with us because of the distance and the fact that they would need feeding during the trip, (its an hour and a half round trip)

When we arrived they asked if we would leave the 2 healthier babies because the little runt would do better with its siblings. I do feel however that they way it was phrased didnt give us much option to refuse as we were made to feel that the tiny one was in jeopardy if we didnt. How could we have refused?

They told Kat twice that she had done an amazing job, and she really has. But she feels robbed and I feel cheated. The upside of it is that the little one has adequate veterinary treatment that we weren't equipped to give, but Kat is worried about her babies....we'll phone the Vale regularly and get updates, but thats all folks.. end of story..

-=sigh=-


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## hanhan (Aug 18, 2006)

hmmm it's a difficult one isn't it. You should never get attached to something that was never meant to be tamed in the first place, and the ultimate goal is just to get the little ones raised well enough to be released . I can imagine you are quite gutted though as the plan was to be in it till the end and see them released.

Well done anyway guys, hopefully little one will pull through and all 3 will be released into the country where it is safe.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Its so hard not to get attached to any animal you handrear You become their mother.At least you gave them a great start you should be proud of yourselves:no1:


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