# Monkeys



## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi I was just wondering can you just keep monkeys in your house some girl my sister goes to college has just posted a pic of her new monkey and looks like it she's treating it like a baby feeding it with a bottle think it is a little cruel myself


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## steve7046 (Sep 9, 2009)

No, and yes it is cruel! 


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

So it's. Not allowed should I report her and who to


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## steve7046 (Sep 9, 2009)

Try the local council environmental health, allowed or not it's simply wrong.


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

I no its wrong either way but if it is allowed then there is no point me reporting her if nothing's going to bed done about it


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

1. if its a Marmoset, it is not on the DWA and so it is legal to keep him.
2. Even if the monkey was in a parrot cage, fed human food and given no attention it is breaking no laws as there is no basic needs to be met when keeping primates.
3. Even if it was Illegal, the authorities rarely treat cases bigger than a dog/cat.

I recommend you do report her though, maybe something may happen after all. The most effective thing i think that can be done is lobby her into seeing the errors of her care for the monkey until she agrees to give it to someone with experience.

I Send my sympathy towards the lil fella.


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## kim1989 (Feb 20, 2010)

Who actually said that this person was treating it badly. You are allowed to keep them and I myself don't know anything about primates but I'm pretty sure that if your about to keep something that specific they would do their research first. Just because she treats it like a baby, doesn't mean to say she's mistreating it.


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## yugimon121 (Oct 4, 2009)

kim1989 said:


> Who actually said that this person was treating it badly. You are allowed to keep them and I myself don't know anything about primates but I'm pretty sure that if your about to keep something that specific they would do their research first. Just because she treats it like a baby, doesn't mean to say she's mistreating it.


the first problem is she said "a" monkey. Monkeys are social animals, they shouldnt be kept alone unless its there's a sufficient reason (injured monkey, being bullied by other primates etc.) that's reason enough to say the monkey is being mistreated.
second poblem is a monkey is a monkey, not a baby. she wants a baby? she should go adapt a baby.


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## MattsZoo (Oct 27, 2011)

Poor little monkey, lets _hope_ she isn't mistreating him, although as said, one monkey would be very lonely on his own.


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

kim1989 said:


> Who actually said that this person was treating it badly. You are allowed to keep them and I myself don't know anything about primates but I'm pretty sure that if your about to keep something that specific they would do their research first. Just because she treats it like a baby, doesn't mean to say she's mistreating it.


I didn't say mistreated I said she's treating it like a baby and in my eyes this is wrong also I didn't know if it was illegal of not so thought i would ask pretty shocked that it's not illegal if I had my way lots of animals would. Be I illegal to keep


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## bladeblaster (Sep 30, 2008)

perhaps it is a baby and needs to be bottle fed.

Talk about a band wagon


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

bladeblaster said:


> perhaps it is a baby and needs to be bottle fed.
> 
> Talk about a band wagon


May I ask what you mean by this thanks


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

I am going to say it again I asked this question because I didn't know if it was illegal to keep monkeys without a license I have not said anything nasty about anybody or anything so would appreciate it if nobody has a go at me also I am allowed my own view on things and in my eyes a 17 year old who is out nearly every night house parties every weekend parents don't give a toss dresses a monkey up. Is not somebody who can give a monkey a suitable enviroment. To live in


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## carlycharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

Maybe you should pass on the info about all the bad points about keeping a single primate as well as all the things that can go wrong, cost of vets bills etc - basically all the negative stuff; see if that convinces the girl she is perhaps not suitable as the "monkeys" owner.

It might turn out she eventually finds it a companion & provides them with a lovely large enclosure etc (although I suspect that wont happen if she is already treating it like a baby etc)

Perhaps ask primate keepers on here about the special needs they have & all the bad points - with this info create a care sheet & get your sister to pass it on. Maybe even suggest they join RFUK, EKF or other related forums so she can herself learn more (preferably ones in the UK, as we know many other countries like dressing their pet primates up!!)

THEN if she is not willing to learn you could perhaps report her for not providing the animal the right to natural behaviours etc, as stated in the Animal Welfare laws.


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## naja-naja (Aug 26, 2009)

how does anybody know that its being badly treated? all the op has seen are pics of this monkey, he has no idea if she has more, or the level of care being provided, he has no grounds to waste the authorities time reporting a non-issue like this.


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

Sarahhampson said:


> I am going to say it again I asked this question because I didn't know if it was illegal to keep monkeys without a license I have not said anything nasty about anybody or anything so would appreciate it if nobody has a go at me also I am allowed my own view on things and in my eyes a 17 year old who is out nearly every night house parties every weekend parents don't give a toss dresses a monkey up. Is not somebody who can give a monkey a suitable enviroment. To live in


Do you know what species the monkey is? Or are you able to upload a picture of it? Some species require a DWA license but there are a few species that don't.


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## naja-naja (Aug 26, 2009)

Sarahhampson said:


> May I ask what you mean by this thanks


if its a baby monkey then it may need to be fed with a bottle.


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

I've looked on the DEFRA website and here is a list of DWA species ... http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-animallist.pdf 

There could be a more recently updated list. The above is the only one that I could find


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

boabloketony said:


> I've looked on the DEFRA website and here is a list of DWA species ... http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-animallist.pdf
> 
> There could be a more recently updated list. The above is the only one that I could find


You don't need a license for Marmosets, Tamarins or Squirrel monkeys, though some may need Article 10s


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

This all seems rather strange to be honest.
Must be a big monkey to be fed with a bottle.

Marmosets and tamarins would be a pippet or nippled syringe.

Even hand reared squirrels when are to big for he dropper are usually spoon fed.

Only bad point i can see is if she is seventeen its certainly not a responsable person to look after a monkey,
unless shes supervised by a parent or something..

Can you post the picture for all too see.
That way we can see the monkey.

But allot can be done with pictures on a computer these days.

But if it is true there are guidelines for keeping primates on defra.
But they are guidelines and are not law.
They should be though...

Let us all see the picture for ourselves..


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

Really, unless extremely knowledgable and the monkey is captive bred etc, and kept as a group, primates should be left in their own habitat, full stop.
I feel sure that as juvi the animals love the attention etc but what happens as they mature?
I realise that marms are considered different in some way, possibly along with squirrel monkeys (ie they wont rip your face off when they reach sexual maturity), mind you`d be lucky to get your hands on a squirrel monkey, even at top dollar, I thinkl!

Leave em in the wild.........someone tell me otherwise? 

Dave


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Cresties - Bibi and Jasper, Leos - Toto & Wasi
Beardies - Big Nellie,Oz,Dero & lovely Sheba R.I.P.
Argentinian Red Tegu - Rubydarbles
Ridgetail Monitors (brachyurus)- Rosie & Jim
Blue tongued Skink - Nigel
Skunkies - Ollie,Petal and Ella
V. Opossum - Puck, APH - Versa
Raccoon - Luca

Perhaps then all these should not be captive and should be left in the wild.
Another crusade....


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

sam gamgee said:


> Really, unless extremely knowledgable and the monkey is captive bred etc, and kept as a group, primates should be left in their own habitat, full stop.
> I feel sure that as juvi the animals love the attention etc but what happens as they mature?
> I realise that marms are considered different in some way, possibly along with squirrel monkeys (ie they wont rip your face off when they reach sexual maturity), mind you`d be lucky to get your hands on a squirrel monkey, even at top dollar, I thinkl!
> 
> ...


sorry dave replied without reading all your post


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

sam gamgee said:


> Really, unless extremely knowledgable and the monkey is captive bred etc, and kept as a group, primates should be left in their own habitat, full stop.
> I feel sure that as juvi the animals love the attention etc but what happens as they mature?
> I realise that marms are considered different in some way, possibly along with squirrel monkeys (ie they wont rip your face off when they reach sexual maturity), mind you`d be lucky to get your hands on a squirrel monkey, even at top dollar, I thinkl!
> 
> ...


Hey Dave, even small Marmosets can inflict a lot of damage to a human. Hand-reared ones are probably the worst as they have no fear of humans.

Its the same old story - people see programmes on TV, like the one thats going to be shown on ITV1 at 7:30pm on Wednesday (god help us all) & think it would be cool to have a pet monkey. They find a breeder who forcibly removes babies from parents for hand-rearing, buy their little furry baby, & take it home to play happy families. The proper keepers are doing a sterling job (often with better breeding results than Zoological Parks), its the half-wits who sell to other half-wits who need kicking into touch.


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

Zoo-Man said:


> Hey Dave, even small Marmosets can inflict a lot of damage to a human. Hand-reared ones are probably the worst as they have no fear of humans.
> 
> Its the same old story - people see programmes on TV, like the one thats going to be shown on ITV1 at 7:30pm on Wednesday (god help us all) & think it would be cool to have a pet monkey. They find a breeder who forcibly removes babies from parents for hand-rearing, buy their little furry baby, & take it home to play happy families. The proper keepers are doing a sterling job (often with better breeding results than Zoological Parks), its the half-wits who sell to other half-wits who need kicking into touch.


HALF-WITS
:lol2:
Nice one Colin.
Im diplomatic now so need to rely on you.


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> HALF-WITS
> :lol2:
> Nice one Colin.
> Im diplomatic now so need to rely on you.


Thats me being polite Peter!


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Putting clothes on said monkey won't get any attention from the welfare people - look at all the dogs getting dressed up, with their owners totally messing up their "baby's" thermoregulation abilities. Coats for bad weather maybe, otherwise dog clothing ought to be illegal on welfare grounds - too much money in the industry for that to happen though. Going off topic - bit of a nerve hit...

More info needed so that the 17yo can be educated on "monkey" husbandry.


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

Well I have advised her to join here let's hope she does the right thing


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Sarahhampson said:


> .... also I didn't know if it was illegal of not so thought i would ask pretty shocked that it's not illegal if I had my way lots of animals would. Be I illegal to keep



Well, I have to say that I'm therefore very glad you are not going to get your way.

Just because some people keep animals incorrectly and keep animals that they are unable to meet the needs of, does not mean that they should be 'illegal to keep'.

The DWAA lists all the animals that currently require a license in order to keep them in captivity in this country. I would actually support a number of animals being added onto this list, just so people would require a vets inspection and a bit of a 'quiz' on how they are going to keep them. It wouldn't stop them being incorrectly kept, but it would mean that people doing it wrong could be reported for it.
It would however also require a shake-up of the DWAL and the inconsistent way that it is administered.

You are correct that a 'monkey' should not be kept singly and should not be dressed in clothes like a doll. THAT is disgraceful. However, keeping primates in private collections is absolutely NOT disgraceful at all. 






I know a number of my friends that have, at various times, had primates in their living rooms and being bottle fed. Some of them have been highly endangered animals, or ones that would normally require DWAL. Some have often been attached to 'human' items such as cuddly toys or blankets/jumpers and on one occasion, one did have a 'human' jumper on, most have been alone.

...of course, all of these occasions the difference is that my friends are primate keepers at various zoos and they have been hand raising babies that have been rejected. Though a very controversial practise, some animals are so valuable genetically, that the potential issues of adult aggression and difficulties reintroducing them to their family groups have to take second priority to the survival of the species.





All that said, if this is a case of a 17yr old with a monkey that is being kept on its own and treated like a doll, then I'm afraid that would be considered an unacceptable situation for that animal by anyone who truly loved animals, particularly primates. 


If the person doesn't come on here (and TBF, I wouldn't blame her if you look at the way most people get torn apart for 'not doing their research etc etc) could you at least try to explain to them in a calm and rational way that the animal is not something that should be used as a surrogate friend or a little doll and needs to be with animals of its own kind, eating a proper diet and living in a large enclosure where it can truly be a monkey.

Print this off and give her a copy to read through.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf


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## boabloketony (Jan 22, 2007)

bothrops said:


> Print this off and give her a copy to read through.
> 
> http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/primate-cop.pdf


I've been looking for this, thank you


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

boabloketony said:


> I've been looking for this, thank you


Need it for anything in particular Tony? :whistling2: :2thumb:


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> sorry dave replied without reading all your post


 
No worries, I am no crusader, hats off to keepers such as yourself and some others on here who actually do the job properly (Hi Colin etc!!!), i think many unfortunately do not.

I do prefer, inc my lot, despite caring correctly, etc for them to leave nature as is but, lets face it, not going to happen. So it appears, and I loathe the word becuase it is bandied around so much, education is the way forward...........thing is creatures such as raccoons, skunks etc will be CONSIDERED `domesticated` at some point, if Brussels do not get thier way 100%.

Dave.


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## Sarahhampson (Oct 19, 2010)

bothrops said:


> Well, I have to say that I'm therefore very glad you are not going to get your way.
> 
> Just because some people keep animals incorrectly and keep animals that they are unable to meet the needs of, does not mean that they should be 'illegal to keep'.
> 
> ...


I will print it off thankyou


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## PETERAROBERTSON (Jul 2, 2008)

bothrops said:


> Well, I have to say that I'm therefore very glad you are not going to get your way.
> 
> Just because some people keep animals incorrectly and keep animals that they are unable to meet the needs of, does not mean that they should be 'illegal to keep'.
> 
> ...


The really bad thing Andy is if you look back at the amount of times this link has been made availiable to people.
On this forum especially.
Its always been there and therefore they just dont research.
But as i said earlier it is a guideline and not law.


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## DeanEgo (Oct 10, 2011)

PETERAROBERTSON said:


> The really bad thing Andy is if you look back at the amount of times this link has been made availiable to people.
> On this forum especially.
> Its always been there and therefore they just dont research.
> But as i said earlier it is a guideline and not law.



clearly people looking to buy primates must do some form of research.. but only as far as to find the animal in question..how do they manage to avoid places like RFUK.. when they are easy to find online, unavoidable infact. it's that part that p:censor:ses me off too..there are people on here to help them prepare and even help make the initial decision whether they are fit to keep such animals..
why would you ignore a link on a search engine titled (for example) "waxy monkey care sheet - Reptile Forums" when they clearly hold first page places..?

I've just rambled on... anyway.. I'd love to experience keeping some form of primate in the future, as it stands I wouldn't be silly enough to 'cause I work full time which wouldn't be fair really..and doubt, given the opportunity in the future, i'd take the chance anyway.


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## bothrops (Jan 7, 2007)

Let me google that for you


:whistling2:


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## 5plusmany (Sep 29, 2011)

I'd love to own monkeyS but probably never will, as has been so pertinently pointed out here, it is a MASSIVE responsibility and such a shame some people overlook this. Owning ANY animal is, and always requires compromise to some extent from the human! Never ceases to amaze me how selfish SOME people can be and i fully understand why the (ahem) veterans of this site can get so frustrated!:bash: springs to mind...


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