# the dog whispere ceaser millan



## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

gues who is paying a visist to us 





the dog whisperer ceaser millan 


he said to us would we prefer if he came to our house to see our dog 
we are so lucky we had to pay tho i think :2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

UH-OH! :lol2:


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## JackieL (May 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> gues who is paying a visist to us
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now say that in English Matt :lol2: !


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## Cheeky-x (Feb 2, 2009)

Wow, whats that for? 

I know its going to be your dog but what problems is he going to fix? 

I love Cesar Millan :flrt: Lets us know how it goes!!


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

LoveForLizards said:


> UH-OH! :lol2:


uhoh indeedy.... lol


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

just be calm-submissive and it'll be fine...:whistling2:


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

i cant wait lol


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)




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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

Cheeky-x said:


> Wow, whats that for?
> 
> I know its going to be your dog but what problems is he going to fix?
> 
> I love Cesar Millan :flrt: Lets us know how it goes!!


i will let you know :2thumb:


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

*grabs popcorn and settles down for the evening* :lol2:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*Ignores the popcorn and grabs a hard hat*:whistling2:


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

whats your dog done to deserve that :gasp: ??!!


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> image


This and



Jacs said:


> *grabs popcorn and settles down for the evening* :lol2:


This....But I'm thinking maybe Shells idea is the best. :lol2:


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## Shadowz (Aug 6, 2008)

oh wow omg how exciting - its not every day someone get the chance to meet a total idiot like that and to pay for the privilege as well - how fab.


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Shell, you _know_ you want some popcorn... Yummy in it's buttery goodness!!!


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

whats your dog doing thats sooo bad?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Shell, you _know_ you want some popcorn... Yummy in it's buttery goodness!!!


 
can i share with you please :flrt:

*pinches shells hard hat :Na_Na_Na_Na:*


:lol2::lol2:


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*giggles* Now you're without popcorn _AND_ hard hat, Shell!! 

Of course you can, Emma... Popcorn is made for sharing *nods*

*wafts the popcorn under Shell's nose*


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> *giggles* Now you're without popcorn _AND_ hard hat, Shell!!
> 
> Of course you can, Emma... Popcorn is made for sharing *nods*
> 
> *wafts the popcorn under Shell's nose*


 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm fankoooooooo's jen :mf_dribble::flrt::flrt:


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> *giggles* Now you're without popcorn _AND_ hard hat, Shell!!
> 
> Of course you can, Emma... Popcorn is made for sharing *nods*
> 
> *wafts the popcorn under Shell's nose*


*Grabs hard hat off Emma and hits her over the head with it, then snatches Jens popcorn and shovels the lot in her mouth*:Na_Na_Na_Na: Mmmm I never share popcorn


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Dammit... Gonna have to make more.

Ya know, I've just realised that us cat chat ladies/wenches are really good at going off topic... Sooooooo.... Just to stay on topic: There's no way in hell I would allow Caesar Milan near Diesel (unless, of course, he was dressed up like a fire hydrant and Diesel had to pee).


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> *Grabs hard hat off Emma and hits her over the head with it, then snatches Jens popcorn and shovels the lot in her mouth*:Na_Na_Na_Na: Mmmm I never share popcorn


 

:gasp::gasp: my shoulder is just getting better an now i have an egg head instead :lol2::lol2:


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

haha popcorn and a pillow to hide when it gets messsy >< haha pillows are soft and protective 2


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

And you don't have to worry too much about somebody stealing them and hitting you over the head with 'em *giggles*


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

*snatches pillow and runs off to bed*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I dont actually have a problem with most of Cesar Milans methods (dont do evil collars,pinning and pinching though) Most of the dogs he works with are on their last chance so I give him credit for that.
I got bought a ticket to go and see him by a friend so it should be quite interesting. I hope they have a big screen for me to watch him on as hes soooo tiny:lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

:lol2:It's quiet so far - where is everyone?


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Tsk... Shell is a right little thief tonight!!!


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

:O my pillow!!!! 

lucky i have lots of pillows and cushions really isnt it  *hands them out* hahaha

and indeedy its very quite... im actually pretty shocked!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Tsk... Shell is a right little thief tonight!!! image


 
I know lol her naughty side is out tonight :lol2::lol2:


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## Crownan (Jan 6, 2007)

Oh here we go..... :roll:

I like him, so good on ya!


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree, though, Shell... Most of the things CM does makes sense, but some of them are just cruel.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Amalthea said:


> *giggles* Now you're without popcorn _AND_ hard hat, Shell!!
> 
> Of course you can, Emma... Popcorn is made for sharing *nods*
> 
> *wafts the popcorn under Shell's nose*


 Pulls up in her armoured car, reaches through the window for some popcorn and waits.................:whistling2:


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## LoveForLizards (Apr 20, 2008)

5 hours, 4 pages, and it's not locked yet. :gasp::lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Pulls up in her armoured car, reaches through the window for some popcorn and waits.................:whistling2:


 
can i get in with you please ?

though you will have to pass me pop corn as my arms are only ickle :lol2::lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> can i get in with you please ?
> 
> though you will have to pass me pop corn as my arms are only ickle :lol2::lol2:


 Sure get in <raises lid of turret> Shell can pour some popcorn down the gun barrel.
What do you think of my armoured car? It's a ferret. (yes there really is one named a ferret)


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Pfft popcorn for this cat chat newly made wench too please. Could i have some kind of armour too please.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Sure get in <raises lid of turret> Shell can pour some popcorn down the gun barrel.
> What do you think of my armoured car? It's a ferret. (yes there really is one named a ferret)
> image


 
It looks a bit clostrophobic for me so I will stick with my hard hat, pillow and no popcorn as Ive eaten it all:lol2:
Maybe all the CM haters are at one of his shows:whistling2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Sure get in <raises lid of turret> Shell can pour some popcorn down the gun barrel.
> What do you think of my armoured car? It's a ferret. (yes there really is one named a ferret)
> image


Whit Wooooooo thats one smoking ferret :2thumb:

*hopes in*



selina20 said:


> Pfft popcorn for this cat chat newly made wench too please. Could i have some kind of armour too please.


ask pam if you can jump in with us


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## selina20 (May 28, 2008)

Pam is there room for a small one now Shell is hiding elsewhere lol


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

selina20 said:


> Pam is there room for a small one now Shell is hiding elsewhere lol


 Sure. Bags of room inside my ferret. It's like the tardis. Although I'm very disappointed that all the CM haters have not turned up yet. I might have to venture out and lay a few mines myself just to get the ball rolling.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> Sure. Bags of room inside my ferret. It's like the tardis. Although I'm very disappointed that all the CM haters have not turned up yet. I might have to venture out and lay a few mines myself just to get the ball rolling.


 
are you bored pam :whistling2::lol2::lol2:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> are you bored pam :whistling2::lol2::lol2:


 no, in pain and that always makes me bloody crabby.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

fenwoman said:


> no, in pain and that always makes me bloody crabby.


 
my pains not to bad tonight its easing off yay wahooooo

though i have a egg head as shell hit me on the head with a hard hat further back on the thread :gasp::lol2:


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

all i want to say is


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

Emmaj said:


> my pains not to bad tonight its easing off yay wahooooo
> 
> though i have a egg head as shell hit me on the head with a hard hat further back on the thread :gasp::lol2:


I don't mind being in pain if I've done something to cause it. It's sort of payback, but I've done bugger all today except drive about collecting feed which is in the trailer and doesn't even need unloading. So I've done nothing to warrant the pain and that makes me fed up. Plus, when I came home and was closing the big gate, it swung while I was looking round to check where Chalky was, and whacked me on the forehead.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> all i want to say is image


Phone home ?



fenwoman said:


> I don't mind being in pain if I've done something to cause it. It's sort of payback, but I've done bugger all today except drive about collecting feed which is in the trailer and doesn't even need unloading. So I've done nothing to warrant the pain and that makes me fed up. Plus, when I came home and was closing the big gate, it swung while I was looking round to check where Chalky was, and whacked me on the forehead.


Ouch pam thats got to have hurt


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Poo!! I went and had dinner (and put brownies in the oven), fully expecting all hell to've broken lose while I was away... I am disappointed!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Poo!! I went and had dinner (and put brownies in the oven), fully expecting all hell to've broken lose while I was away... I am disappointed!


 
i see you dodged the mines that pam layed :lol2::lol2:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Amalthea said:


> Poo!! I went and had dinner (and put brownies in the oven), fully expecting all hell to've broken lose while I was away... I am disappointed!


Me too!! I've been watching that 5 days thing on BBC, followed by NCIS and drooled over Mark Harmon!

Then I came here to read the arguments and there aren't any!!

I think you might be right Shell! :lol2:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Didn't want to disappoint you ladies! : victory:

To the OP, shall I call your vet to have him on stand-by for Milan's visit? 
:lol2:


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Im suprised this hasnt turned into a fight yet either. . . then again since kathy pi:censor:d off things have been much nicer around here. . . :whip:

Anyways. . good luck with the visit, is it going to be for the uk tv series? Personally i 100% agree with his methods, whatever anyone says they work- and you cant really argue with results!


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

*cm visit*



girlsnotgray said:


> Im suprised this hasnt turned into a fight yet either. . . then again since kathy pi:censor:d off things have been much nicer around here. . . :whip:
> 
> Anyways. . good luck with the visit, is it going to be for the uk tv series? Personally i 100% agree with his methods, whatever anyone says they work- and you cant really argue with results!


ditto to the above and good look with getting your dog sorted.


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

sarahc said:


> ditto to the above and good look with getting your dog sorted.


 
thanks dude i cant wait =):2thumb:


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)




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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

*points up* So true *shakes head*


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Nice to see we agree to disagree so gently
*sadly puts nunchuks back in box*


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## LiamRatSnake (Jul 3, 2007)

As a non-Ceaser hater, I hope you enjoy the experience : victory:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I think hes quality I've emailed him my dogs in serious need of some disapline what's not to like about he's methods? Why wouldn't u like them? He's leaves ahead of any english trainer I've seen on tv!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

How did u sort it?


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> How did u sort it?


 
my sister sorted it i will ask her what she had to do and i will get back to pm in you ok mate 

thanks to my sister he is comeing to our house to see about ou rotty trouble lol


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

i am rather disappointed to say the least *throws pillows across room in strop* lol


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

Jacs said:


> i am rather disappointed to say the least *throws pillows across room in strop* lol


 
what are you trying to say lol :whistling2::lol2: i dont get that at all


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> I think hes quality I've emailed him my dogs in serious need of some disapline what's not to like about he's methods? Why wouldn't u like them? He's leaves ahead of any english trainer I've seen on tv!


Ok I'll bite.... :whistling2:

His 'training' theories are based on the idea of pack leadership, a rather outdated method of training. Some of his methods use training 'techniques' which aren't exactly humane, such as hanging the dog by it's collar and basically asphyxiating it and scaring the dog until it submits (All you need to do is watch the dogs body language. This happens an awful lot.). Added to this, he seems to be a big advocate of using barbaric equipment such as shock collars and prong collars which are in no way humane. Many of his 'miracle' cases are ones he has worked on for however many days off screen until the dog submits. What you see on camera is usually a preconditioned response. I don't disagree with most of his methods but the ones that I have mentioned above are enough to make me hate the man. 

For a good english trainer, try Victoria Stilwell. Positive reinforcement methods all the way. Dog does good thing, dog gets treat and praise. Dog does bad thing, dog gets ignored, unlike CM where dog does bad thing, dog gets punished.

Personally I like to see my dogs tail wagging while we're training, not hanging between his legs while he cowers in fear.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I think that he's saying alot of people don't like him don't no why, cheers my olde tyme bulldogs a nutcase he needs some training he lunges at all people and dogs which come near me it's getting embarrasing


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> I think that he's saying alot of people don't like him don't no why, cheers my olde tyme bulldogs a nutcase he needs some training he lunges at all people and dogs which come near me it's getting embarrasing


Something pretty easily sorted by positive reinfrocement methods. I'm a big advocate of clicker training and my dog used to jump up at people and dogs whenever we went past them. I sorted out his problems in about a week or less of clicker training : victory:


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> I think that he's saying alot of people don't like him don't no why, cheers my olde tyme bulldogs a nutcase he needs some training he lunges at all people and dogs which come near me it's getting embarrasing


i do hope the "he's" wasnt talking about me?

incase it was....


im a she :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:

i will just add... i also very much believe in positive reinforcement... we have a bullmastiff who had serious fear agression... altho she had never hurt anyone and is soppy as hell with us she would bark at people when they came in or near the house and had to be shut away so she didnt hurt anyone, she would even bark and try to chase people in the street...

after 3 sessions with a local trainer at £20 a session she had improved so much, to the point she would sniff people in the street instead of wanting to attack or protect... she has also calmed down an awful lot when people come in the house, with every training session she improoves and not once was any of the training done through fear or negativity. 

i agree some of his methods are very good... but the bad methods he uses are enough to put me off... i believe anything can be achieved with positive reinforcement and patience/time. 

quick fixes arent the best... working hard at problems and giving them time to improve other than anything else gives you great pleasure when you reach the other end and can look back and say "i stuck to that and it worked"


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Jacs said:


> i do hope the "he's" wasnt talking about me?
> 
> incase it was....
> 
> ...


^That  :notworthy:


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

jaykickboxer said:


> I think that he's saying alot of people don't like him don't no why, cheers my olde tyme bulldogs a nutcase he needs some training he lunges at all people and dogs which come near me it's getting embarrasing


 You don't need Cesar Millan. What you needed to do was take the dog to socialisation classes when he was still a puppy. Now he's large and powerful, he still needs socialising but is large enough to be virtually uncontrollable. Casar doesn't wave a wand and you get instant obedience from the dog, he trains owners to get off thir backsides and be responsible for their dogs by taking them out for proper excersize daily and puting in serious tim and effort throughout the day. If all you have done is train the dog to sit since you got him, then of course he's going to be lunging. He may do one lunge too many one day and the police will remove him as a dangerous dog. Then you on't need to worry about him lunging as he'll be put down.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

My dog is going socialisation classes and has been very well socialised with loads of dogs he always plays with my mums 2 dogs my 2 sisters dogs and my gorlfriends parents dog and friends dogs i think he's nervous aggressive as he lunges at people barking when they come near us, I am by no means a disapelnarium and as my dog is good of a lead and very well behaved I've never had the need to tell him off but he's started playing up with other dogs and people, he's always been nervous but now he's big he's got brave, whatever u say whatever he does works and I don't ever witness any cruelty.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> My dog is going socialisation classes and has been very well socialised with loads of dogs he always plays with my mums 2 dogs my 2 sisters dogs and my gorlfriends parents dog and friends dogs i think he's nervous aggressive as he lunges at people barking when they come near us, I am by no means a disapelnarium and as my dog is good of a lead and very well behaved I've never had the need to tell him off but he's started playing up with other dogs and people, he's always been nervous but now he's big he's got brave, whatever u say whatever he does works and I don't ever witness any cruelty.


If he was well socialised he would not be lunging due to 'nervous aggression'. That's the point of socialisation...

How old is he? he might be going his 'pushing the boundaries teenager' phase...


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> My dog is going socialisation classes and has been very well socialised with loads of dogs he always plays with my mums 2 dogs my 2 sisters dogs and my gorlfriends parents dog and friends dogs i think he's nervous aggressive as he lunges at people barking when they come near us, I am by no means a disapelnarium and as my dog is good of a lead and very well behaved I've never had the need to tell him off but he's started playing up with other dogs and people, he's always been nervous but now he's big he's got brave, whatever u say whatever he does works and I don't ever witness any cruelty.[/QUOTE]
> 
> i'm not sure you are watching the same program as me. any one who can make a dog exhibit learned helplessness or frozen watchfulness (look up if neccesary) has to be doing it wrong!! I can't find the episode i was going to post that shows a shepherd cross called sonny who shows both of these even after being apparently fixed. ceasar even looks embarrased when he's watching the dogs behaviour and claiming it is fixed and tries to distract viewers by saying how moved he was by the people with special needs in the clip. seems to have vanished off the face of the earth.
> 
> he does a lot of things that are completely unneccessary and not natural things a dog pack would do to each other as he tries to claim. some of the things he says make sense but most of it is negative.


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

The one thing that I don't really get about the whole positive reinforcement thing - if it's used as a singular method - then what ways do people advocate actually dealing with bad behaviour? I understand rewarding good behaviour and do agree that this is the best way to deal with the majority of dog training issues, but what about when your dog does something that is genuinely bad and ignoring simply isn't enough? I have spent so much time and effort training Willit. We go to weekly classes and I largely pride myself on how well behaved he is the majority of the time, yet he still has times when he does things that are completely unacceptable and which I feel warrant more than simply ignoring him as he simply will not be affected by that.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Get your popcorn ladies :2thumb:


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

How have they not had millions of complaints if it's so bad seriously get a life! He's 7 months old and 4 stone already


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

pippainnit said:


> The one thing that I don't really get about the whole positive reinforcement thing - if it's used as a singular method - then what ways do people advocate actually dealing with bad behaviour? I understand rewarding good behaviour and do agree that this is the best way to deal with the majority of dog training issues, but what about when your dog does something that is genuinely bad and ignoring simply isn't enough? I have spent so much time and effort training Willit. We go to weekly classes and I largely pride myself on how well behaved he is the majority of the time, yet he still has times when he does things that are completely unacceptable and which I feel warrant more than simply ignoring him as he simply will not be affected by that.


I guess it depends on what kind of bad behaviour you mean. Give an example on what you think is bad behaviour that is unacceptable?


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## pippainnit (Feb 20, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> How have they not had millions of complaints if it's so bad seriously get a life! He's 7 months old and 4 stone already


I think it largely depends on your personal disposition and how you view the treatment of animals in your care. A trainer I went to a few times dealt with any dogs lunging by swinging a chain lead in their face until they backed off. Many people at the classes did not approve of that method and didn't go back - others thought if it worked; great, and carried on going there. It's all subjective i.m.o. and down to the individual owner, therefore it's an eternal argument/debate.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> How have they not had millions of complaints if it's so bad seriously get a life! He's 7 months old and 4 stone already


I think you'll find they have had many complaints, however the majority of people who watch him tend to be mindless idiots who will believe anything on tv and treat it like it is suddenyl the word of god, and believe that because in the space of one half an hour show he has 'transformed' a dog and don't put any thought to the days of work that has gone on behind the camera to make the dog respond like that. 

I think it's the teeth. They may well have hypnotic properties.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Maybe u should have a show furryfuzzy as u no so much , il happy slate a football player for being bad but put me 1 on 1 with him will see who comes out tops not me im sure Im realy impressed with what he does and he gets results whattever waffle u have to say it simply speaks for itself If there were large numbers of complaints somethink would be done about it, it's just oversensitive jobsworths who complain.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I wouldn't evan raise my voice to my dog but I'd happily let ceaser milan train him there's nothing wrong with the way he treats animAls seriously get a grip this is by far tge worst section of the whole forum as it seems to be were all the people without lives conregate to bitch,


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> Maybe u should have a show furryfuzzy as u no so much , il happy slate a football player for being bad but put me 1 on 1 with him will see who comes out tops not me im sure Im realy impressed with what he does and he gets results whattever waffle u have to say it simply speaks for itself If there were large numbers of complaints somethink would be done about it, it's just oversensitive jobsworths who complain.


Ok, how about I put a shock collar on you and hang you up by the neck to make you submit to me? There are people who would pay for that sort of thing you know and I'm offering youbthe chance free (Plus I bet a couple of people on here would love to watch based on some of your past threads :whistling2

And nothing gets done about it because people watch him and he gets the ratings up. Thats the only thing that mnost tv stations give a damn about. He ups the ratings, they get money. Simple as.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Ok I'll bite.... :whistling2:
> 
> His 'training' theories are based on the idea of pack leadership, a rather outdated method of training. Some of his methods use training 'techniques' which aren't exactly humane, such as hanging the dog by it's collar and basically asphyxiating it and scaring the dog until it submits (All you need to do is watch the dogs body language. This happens an awful lot.). Added to this, he seems to be a big advocate of using barbaric equipment such as shock collars and prong collars which are in no way humane. Many of his 'miracle' cases are ones he has worked on for however many days off screen until the dog submits. What you see on camera is usually a preconditioned response. I don't disagree with most of his methods but the ones that I have mentioned above are enough to make me hate the man.
> 
> ...


 
Ok well.................i remember seeing one show of CM's an i have to applaude him for it 

he used a *shock* collar on a dog 

and yes i applauded him 

the reason i did this was the persons dog he was training lived where alot of rattlers lived 

he used the shock collar to show that this snake would kill him and to stay away 

you have to remember this man lives in a different country so the needs of training are so very different 

if it had of been me i would have rather my dog have a lil shock than being bitten by a snake cos the dog thought it would be fun to play with it an get bitten an die 

no i dont agree with all methods but hey fair play to the man he does a good job with the dogs he works with


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Ok, how about I put a shock collar on you and hang you up by the neck to make you submit to me? There are people who would pay for that sort of thing you know and I'm offering youbthe chance free (Plus I bet a couple of people on here would love to watch based on some of your past threads :whistling2
> 
> And nothing gets done about it because people watch him and he gets the ratings up. Thats the only thing that mnost tv stations give a damn about. He ups the ratings, they get money. Simple as.


 
cos that would be kinky an you need to be in 18+ for that :whistling2:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> Ok well.................i remember seeing one show of CM's an i have to applaude him for it
> 
> he used a *shock*collar on a dog
> 
> ...



True but the problem with shock collars is that you cannot train exactly what the shock gets associated with. Say for example I had a child, a cat and a dog. The dog is very friendly towards the child and poses it no threat, however it chases the cat. I use a shock collar to try and teach the dog to keep away from the cat, however my first time using it, the child walks in to pet the cat. What is stopping the dog from focussing its attention on the child while I adminster the shock, thus associating the shock with the child? It only needs to happen once for the dog to become fearful of the child which could result in the dog lashing out at the child next time the child tries to pet it.

Something like that could happen in any situation. Yeah a shock collar might work but you have to be very careful with it, and the problem is that CM being aired as much as it is easily makes people think 'If he can do it so can I' (My stepdad for example) and then you have equipment like shock collars being used wrongly.

Don;t get me wrong I do agree with and even like some of his methods. Most of it however, I don't


----------



## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Get your popcorn ladies :2thumb:


24 hours later, but it's starting! 

Where's the popcorn??


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> cos that would be kinky an you need to be in 18+ for that :whistling2:


I'll be right over  anyone got a video camera?


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> 24 hours later, but it's starting!
> 
> Where's the popcorn??


Here ya go *passes popcorn*


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> True but the problem with shock collars is that you cannot train exactly what the shock gets associated with. Say for example I had a child, a cat and a dog. The dog is very friendly towards the child and poses it no threat, however it chases the cat. I use a shock collar to try and teach the dog to keep away from the cat, however my first time using it, the child walks in to pet the cat. What is stopping the dog from focussing its attention on the child while I adminster the shock, thus associating the shock with the child? It only needs to happen once for the dog to become fearful of the child which could result in the dog lashing out at the child next time the child tries to pet it.
> 
> Something like that could happen in any situation. Yeah a shock collar might work but you have to be very careful with it, and the problem is that CM being aired as much as it is easily makes people think 'If he can do it so can I' (My stepdad for example) and then you have equipment like shock collars being used wrongly.
> 
> Don;t get me wrong I do agree with and even like some of his methods. Most of it however, I don't


 
LOL there were no children or cats about when he used this method just the owner an rattlers.........................

come on he keeps dogs alive he helps people 

OH an to mention again he is in the states.....................its all different there


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> I'll be right over  anyone got a video camera?


 
have a cam on ma phone lol :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> LOL there were no children or cats about when he used this method just the owner an rattlers.........................
> 
> come on he keeps dogs alive he helps people
> 
> OH an to mention again he is in the states.....................its all different there


I know I was just giving an example  I have no problem with him using a shock collar in that situation. I mean great, the dog stays away from snakes, no nasty bites, no dead dog. Good all round. My point is that this sort of stuff gets aired to the whole of the UK. A place where people can freely buy shock collars from ebay and don't know how to use them properly which can lead to the situation I gave as an example.

It's great that he works with last chance dogs and keeps them alive and I am not faulting him for that, and I know it is different in the US. I'm saying that there some of the equipment he uses can be dangerous in the wrong hands and when youhave millions of viewers, it will probably end up doing more harm than good


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

I saw the episode where he put a shock collar on the arm of the owner to demonstrate it wasn't painful, just a vibration to stop the unwanted behaviour. He also continually re-iterates (as he did last night at the O2) that people should consult a professional. As for 'hanging' dogs the only time I've seen him do this was when he was being attacked by the dog because he was preventing it from attacking another dog. When the dog ceased its attack he released it and continued with the relaxed calm energy, which if you've been bitten by a large dog takes some doing I can tell you!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Seriously feel free with the shock collar Ud need more the. That mate I'd happily put u on ur arse for free, appart from tge rattler episode I've never seen him use a shock collar I ain't getting banned again I got way to many serious infractions already to evan get started on u! U and fenwomen writing the ame thing over and over again doesn't count as loads of complaints. If u realy wanna argue pm me your number tomorow and maybe will meet up and discuss this more indepth!


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Like what? u serious,u have no arguement anything ever done was for good reason seriously furryboy get a grip.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> I know I was just giving an example  I have no problem with him using a shock collar in that situation. I mean great, the dog stays away from snakes, no nasty bites, no dead dog. Good all round. My point is that this sort of stuff gets aired to the whole of the UK. A place where people can freely buy shock collars from ebay and don't know how to use them properly which can lead to the situation I gave as an example.
> 
> It's great that he works with last chance dogs and keeps them alive and I am not faulting him for that, and I know it is different in the US. I'm saying that there some of the equipment he uses can be dangerous in the wrong hands and when youhave millions of viewers, it will probably end up doing more harm than good


 
aint they ilegal over here so i dont think people buy them willy nilly and it does state in his shows *please dont try this at home.........*

So anyone that does try this are going against CM wishes without proper help of using them of course


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

I watched it earlier and he stroked a dog how dare he I may have to complain!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

snakewhisperer said:


> I saw the episode where he put a shock collar on the arm of the owner to demonstrate it wasn't painful, just a vibration to stop the unwanted behaviour. He also continually re-iterates (as he did last night at the O2) that people should consult a professional. As for 'hanging' dogs the only time I've seen him do this was when he was being attacked by the dog because he was preventing it from attacking another dog. When the dog ceased its attack he released it and continued with the relaxed calm energy, which if you've been bitten by a large dog takes some doing I can tell you!


 yeah i saw the tickle collar episode too


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

jaykickboxer said:


> Seriously feel free with the shock collar Ud need more the. That mate I'd happily put u on ur arse for free, appart from tge rattler episode I've never seen him use a shock collar I ain't getting banned again I got way to many serious infractions already to evan get started on u! U and fenwomen writing the ame thing over and over again doesn't count as loads of complaints. If u realy wanna argue pm me your number tomorow and maybe will meet up and discuss this more indepth!


 calm down ----calm down
*steps in between warring factions to regain calm submissive energy*:whistling2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

jaykickboxer said:


> Seriously feel free with the shock collar Ud need more the. That mate I'd happily put u on ur arse for free, appart from tge rattler episode I've never seen him use a shock collar I ain't getting banned again I got way to many serious infractions already to evan get started on u! U and fenwomen writing the ame thing over and over again doesn't count as loads of complaints. If u realy wanna argue pm me your number tomorow and maybe will meet up and discuss this more indepth!


 
who was that aimed at?


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

snakewhisperer said:


> I saw the episode where he put a shock collar on the arm of the owner to demonstrate it wasn't painful, just a vibration to stop the unwanted behaviour. He also continually re-iterates (as he did last night at the O2) that people should consult a professional. As for 'hanging' dogs the only time I've seen him do this was when he was being attacked by the dog because he was preventing it from attacking another dog. When the dog ceased its attack he released it and continued with the relaxed calm energy, which if you've been bitten by a large dog takes some doing I can tell you!


Shock collars do hurt, when I took my pup to training classes the trainer invited the dog owners to try it on their arm. I wouldn't want my dog having that thing round his neck!

Problem is the general public are plebs and I know a lot of people including a relative (stepdad) who think 'well if he can do it that easily so can I' and they suddenyl think that because they've watched the show a few times that they are master of all dogs. It's the sad influence of TV on society.... but that's a different debate....  



jaykickboxer said:


> Seriously feel free with the shock collar Ud need more the. That mate I'd happily put u on ur arse for free, appart from tge rattler episode I've never seen him use a shock collar I ain't getting banned again I got way to many serious infractions already to evan get started on u! U and fenwomen writing the ame thing over and over again doesn't count as loads of complaints. If u realy wanna argue pm me your number tomorow and maybe will meet up and discuss this more indepth!


....English please. I can barely understand what yuo are typing.


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## jaykickboxer (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeh that why I don't try his teckbiques im by no means calm of submissive anyways im done.


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## fenwoman (Apr 15, 2008)

FuzzyFurry said:


> True but the problem with shock collars is that you cannot train exactly what the shock gets associated with. Say for example I had a child, a cat and a dog. The dog is very friendly towards the child and poses it no threat, however it chases the cat. I use a shock collar to try and teach the dog to keep away from the cat, however my first time using it, the child walks in to pet the cat. What is stopping the dog from focussing its attention on the child while I adminster the shock, thus associating the shock with the child? It only needs to happen once for the dog to become fearful of the child which could result in the dog lashing out at the child next time the child tries to pet it.


 and this is a great example of why you need to know what you are doing with a shock collar. The scene you described would not happen with someone experienced because the child should not be wandering about loose during a training session.
Every 10 years or so there comes another training method which is hailed as the way to train dogs, all others being unworkable/cruel/outdated.
I understand it's the same with child rearing gurus.
A bit of common sense works wonders. I personally subscribe to the pack theory. It works for wild canid and it works for me and my pack of 20+ house dogs. Without pack heirachy, there would be utter mayhem and bloodhsed here. As it is, there is none since I am supreme leader/alpha bitch/pack leader and I make the rules. The main rule is, no attacking any creature which is a member of our pack. That means cats, dogs, rats, rabbits, goats, poultry etc.
The thing I tend to disagree with it the 'praise the good, ignore the bad'. I think this is not only a silly method but a cruel method too. Cruel because the dog gets no clear signal that a behaviour is unwanted and undesireable. Since anything bad gets ignored, it has to somehow guess when it's doing something it shouldn't. All commands should be clear, consistant and help a dog to understand what it is you want from him. If for example, someone's dog has the postman's leg in it's mouth, this is obviously bad behaviour right? So should the poor chaps screams be ignored? Or should we tell him to stop screaming in case it rewards the dog by giving him attention, and that's it'll be fine if he just stops making a fuss and when the dog lets go, we praise it?
If any of miine do something I don't want them to do, I growl "no" or "stop that" or "leave it" or clap my hands and yell "ah ah". This gives them a completely clear idea that whatever they are doing, I want them to stop. Of course immdiately they do stop, they get praised. Clear, completely understandable, growl for negative and high praise for stopping whatever it was. They understand perfectly and are not confused. 
These so called modern methods of training must have been thought up by the same kind of woolly minded liberals who insist that children never get punished.Parents again have to ignore the bad and reward the good. As a consquence, kids grow up never having been told a clear "no". Never learn that there are consequences for bad behaviour.
Clarity and consistancy should be the watchwords whether training a dog or a child. Luckily, I have a well mannered, pleasant and responsible adult son and well mannered pleasant dogs. They both got similar training.:whistling2:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> aint they ilegal over here so i dont think people buy them willy nilly and it does state in his shows *please dont try this at home.........*
> 
> So anyone that does try this are going against CM wishes without proper help of using them of course


Don;t think they are illegal yet, and as for the warning, see what I put in response to snakewhisperers post


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Shock collars do hurt, when I took my pup to training classes the trainer invited the dog owners to try it on their arm. I wouldn't want my dog having that thing round his neck!
> 
> Problem is the general public are plebs and I know a lot of people including a relative (stepdad) who think 'well if he can do it that easily so can I' and they suddenyl think that because they've watched the show a few times that they are master of all dogs. It's the sad influence of TV on society.... but that's a different debate....
> 
> ...


i could be wrong but they are ilegal here so how did you get to feel a shock collar legally :lol2:

i really could be wrong on then being ilegal but cant be bothered to look it up ha ha 

see i can debate nicely :Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Don;t think they are illegal yet, and as for the warning, see what I put in response to snakewhisperers post


 
im singing in the rain are you singing in the rain..............


decoy while i go make a brew lol :no1:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> The thing I tend to disagree with it the 'praise the good, ignore the bad'. I think this is not only a silly method but a cruel method too. Cruel because the dog gets no clear signal that a behaviour is unwanted and undesireable. Since anything bad gets ignored, it has to somehow guess when it's doing something it shouldn't. All commands should be clear, consistant and help a dog to understand what it is you want from him. If for example, someone's dog has the postman's leg in it's mouth, this is obviously bad behaviour right? So should the poor chaps screams be ignored? Or should we tell him to stop screaming in case it rewards the dog by giving him attention, and that's it'll be fine if he just stops making a fuss and when the dog lets go, we praise it?
> If any of miine do something I don't want them to do, I growl "no" or "stop that" or "leave it" or clap my hands and yell "ah ah". This gives them a completely clear idea that whatever they are doing, I want them to stop. Of course immdiately they do stop, they get praised. Clear, completely understandable, growl for negative and high praise for stopping whatever it was. They understand perfectly and are not confused.


Ok I think I may have not explained myself clearly. What I percieve Positive reinforcement training to be is 'praise the good, ignore the bad' as in do not punish the bad. If the dog wees on the floor, ignore it and do not punish it. If the dogs wees outside, praise it and give it fuss.

If the dog bites the postmans leg, by all means drag the dog off, take it away and tell it no, then put it in a different room and ignore it. There is nothing wrong with saying no, and I'm not saying there is (Hell I wouldn't have turned out the way I have if my mother had never said no to me :lol2 but punishment and saying no are different things. Hope I make myself clear!

@EmmaJ - Just looked it up and shock collars are banned in Wales but not in the UK


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Ok I think I may have not explained myself clearly. What I percieve Positive reinforcement training to be is 'praise the good, ignore the bad' as in do not punish the bad. If the dog wees on the floor, ignore it and do not punish it. If the dogs wees outside, praise it and give it fuss.
> 
> If the dog bites the postmans leg, by all means drag the dog off, take it away and tell it no, then put it in a different room and ignore it. There is nothing wrong with saying no, and I'm not saying there is (Hell I wouldn't have turned out the way I have if my mother had never said no to me :lol2 but punishment and saying no are different things. Hope I make myself clear!
> 
> @EmmaJ - Just looked it up and shock collars are banned in Wales but not in the UK


 
well they should be bleddy banned here too unless being used by CM 

sowwie lol


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

fenwoman said:


> and this is a great example of why you need to know what you are doing with a shock collar. The scene you described would not happen with someone experienced because the child should not be wandering about loose during a training session.


My apologies, I forgot to respond to the first bit of your post.

As I have said already, CM may well know what he is doign and I am not disputing that. My problem is more with the fact that however many million viewers have been lured in by his hypnotism teeth probably don;t know what they are doing and are free to go out and buy a shock collar and use it however the hell they want. Once the program is aired, the general pleblic can go out and do what they like. The series has covered it's ass by putting up warnings not to try the methodsat home, so it's out of their hands once it airs.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> well they should be bleddy banned here too unless being used by CM
> 
> sowwie lol


No worries 

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with them and would never use one, however I'm not completely against them. I just think that it should be left up to the people who actually know #how# to use them to get positive results.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> No worries
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I disagree with them and would never use one, however I'm not completely against them. I just think that it should be left up to the people who actually know #how# to use them to get positive results.


 
i totally agree with you hun 

they should only be used by people who know what they are doing an why they are doing it : victory:

Oooo family guy is on an i have a bengal curtain climbing :gasp:


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Shock collars do hurt, when I took my pup to training classes the trainer invited the dog owners to try it on their arm. I wouldn't want my dog having that thing round his neck!
> 
> Problem is the general public are plebs and I know a lot of people including a relative (stepdad) who think 'well if he can do it that easily so can I' and they suddenyl think that because they've watched the show a few times that they are master of all dogs. It's the sad influence of TV on society.... but that's a different debate....
> 
> I see your point here but some people are like that unfortunately. I would hope if anyone had a dog with problems as bad as the dogs Cesar deals with they would realise they've gone horribly wrong somewhere and seek professional help because they will probably fail very quickly anyway. I would like to see him do a programme with pups or rescue dogs and show the very simple easy techniques that anyone can follow to have a dog receptive to obedience. It wouldn't perhaps appeal though as it wouldn't be as sensational as the real problem cases we see on tv.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> i totally agree with you hun
> 
> they should only be used by people who know what they are doing an why they are doing it : victory:
> 
> Oooo family guy is on an i have a bengal curtain climbing :gasp:


Phew, and there was me thinking I was fighting every side around me! Think I might have to go downstairs to have a brew and some cake and a breather for a bit  Family guy you say? might have ot brave the tellybox too...


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> If the dog bites the postmans leg, by all means drag the dog off, take it away and tell it no, then put it in a different room and ignore it.


But surely dogs don't understand "time out", so putting it in a different room won't give it any clear message?


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Phew, and there was me thinking I was fighting every side around me! Think I might have to go downstairs to have a brew and some cake and a breather for a bit  Family guy you say? might have ot brave the tellybox too...


yes yes family guy :no1:

mmmm i have brew bahhhhhh no cake  

share ????


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> yes yes family guy :no1:
> 
> mmmm i have brew bahhhhhh no cake
> 
> share ????


Sure we have loads *passes* chocolate and banana cake. Home made 

@Feorag - I think the most important thing in that scenario would be removing the dog from the situation and trying to find out what caused it to bite the postmans leg in the first place. If my dog bit someone, I would value the safety of the human first and then think about why my dog had bit that person and think about why the dog bit and how I could have stopped it and things I can do in the future to stop it, afterwards


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Ok I think I may have not explained myself clearly. What I percieve Positive reinforcement training to be is 'praise the good, ignore the bad' as in do not punish the bad. If the dog wees on the floor, ignore it and do not punish it. If the dogs wees outside, praise it and give it fuss.
> 
> If the dog bites the postmans leg, by all means drag the dog off, take it away and tell it no, then put it in a different room and ignore it. There is nothing wrong with saying no, and I'm not saying there is (Hell I wouldn't have turned out the way I have if my mother had never said no to me :lol2 but punishment and saying no are different things. Hope I make myself clear!
> 
> @EmmaJ - Just looked it up and shock collars are banned in Wales but not in the UK


 Putting the dog in a different room won't work, dogs live in the now, it's not going to know why it's there! Would you tell it to think about it's actions and come out when it's ready to apologise?


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

snakewhisperer said:


> Putting the dog in a different room won't work, dogs live in the now, it's not going to know why it's there! Would you tell it to think about it's actions and come out when it's ready to apologise?


No, I would tell it no and remove it from the situation and think about why it bit and how I could stop it biting in the future (see my response to Feorags post )

How would you deal wth it if something like that happened?

ETA - If you have trained your dog to know what 'No' means, it will know while you are dragging it off poor posties leg and telling it 'no' that it has done something bad. If a dog has gotten agitated enough to bite someone, then separating it and ignoring it is way of letting it cool down : victory:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> @Feorag - I think the most important thing in that scenario would be removing the dog from the situation and trying to find out what caused it to bite the postmans leg in the first place. If my dog bit someone, I would value the safety of the human first and then think about why my dog had bit that person and think about why the dog bit and how I could have stopped it and things I can do in the future to stop it, afterwards


Well of course, so would I! But what I'm saying is that putting the dog in another room and ignoring it, wouldn't particularly teach it any more than dragging it off and telling it no - unless of course you haven't explained that the way you wanted to either! :grin1:


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

snakewhisperer said:


> Putting the dog in a different room won't work, dogs live in the now, it's not going to know why it's there! Would you tell it to think about it's actions and come out when it's ready to apologise?


We cross posted, but that was precisely my point too!!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My neighbour has a Westie pup and when she has an accident they lock her outside for hours on end. When I asked why they do this I got told, so the dog can contemplate whats shes done:bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

snakewhisperer said:


> Putting the dog in a different room won't work, dogs live in the now, it's not going to know why it's there! Would you tell it to think about it's actions and come out when it's ready to apologise?


 
i have to agree with this...........dogs are not understanding like children are they dont know when they have done wrong or why they go by habbit


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> Well of course, so would I! But what I'm saying is that putting the dog in another room and ignoring it, wouldn't particularly teach it any more than dragging it off and telling it no - unless of course you haven't explained that the way you wanted to either! :grin1:


Nope, explained it how I wanted to  how would you deal with it if something like this happened?


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> My neighbour has a Westie pup and when she has an accident they lock her outside for hours on end. When I asked why they do this I got told, so the dog can contemplate whats shes done:bash::bash::bash::bash:


Poor westie pup  How can they expect her to learn by doing that? :S


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

The same way you described, except I wouldn't put it in a room and ignore it, because I don't think that would teach it any more than getting it off the postman's leg and bollocking it, basically!


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Nope, explained it how I wanted to  how would you deal with it if something like this happened?


 
if the dog bit a postman unless you had an understanding one..........its unlikely the dog would survive long.............


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> The same way you described, except I wouldn't put it in a room and ignore it, because I don't think that would teach it any more than getting it off the postman's leg and bollocking it, basically!


True but I personally would put the dog in a different room to let it cool down a bit first. I personally wouldn;t want to be around my dog if it had just bitten someone and I don;t think there would be anything to lose or gain by keeping it in the same room as me. Even if I just put him in his crate for 10 minutes to cool off before coming out again


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

It hasn't and wouldn't happen with a dog of mine. If however I took a rescue dog say and something like this occurred, no..... hang on.. there are too many what ifs and different factors to consider for me to answer that. It would depend on so many things as to what I would and could do .


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well, whether I wanted to be around my dog after a scenario like that would depend on the circumstances of the bite. 

However, it wouldn't matter how I felt about my dog, I would keep him in the same room as me and make sure that he cooled down in my presence.


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> Well, whether I wanted to be around my dog after a scenario like that would depend on the circumstances of the bite.
> 
> However, it wouldn't matter how I felt about my dog, I would keep him in the same room as me and make sure that he cooled down in my presence.


 I think thats vital to be able re-inforce that you are in charge.


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> Well, whether I wanted to be around my dog after a scenario like that would depend on the circumstances of the bite.
> 
> However, it wouldn't matter how I felt about my dog, I would keep him in the same room as me and make sure that he cooled down in my presence.


This is where it would just come down to personal opinion methinks. Personally, if it did ever happen to me (god forbid, my boy loves postie because postie gives him treats through the letterbox!) I think I would feel more comfortable with the dog in his crate while I calmed down in the next room.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I think dog training depends on the dogs tempermant. Some dogs react better to a firmer hand while others will fall to pieces, I have many dogs here and have used different training methods with them all. My GSD bitch would have been the dog from hell if I had trained her in a less dominant manner as she used to lunge and go for people and strange dogs, shes 7 years old now and has turned into a wonderful bitch. On the other hand if I had used this method(non violent) on some of my others they would have ended up nervous wrecks


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> yes yes family guy :no1:
> 
> mmmm i have brew bahhhhhh no cake
> 
> share ????


i am watching family guy now lol


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Oh yeah... before i forget..... Fenwoman for Prime minister!!:flrt:


fenwoman said:


> and this is a great example of why you need to know what you are doing with a shock collar. The scene you described would not happen with someone experienced because the child should not be wandering about loose during a training session.
> Every 10 years or so there comes another training method which is hailed as the way to train dogs, all others being unworkable/cruel/outdated.
> I understand it's the same with child rearing gurus.
> A bit of common sense works wonders. I personally subscribe to the pack theory. It works for wild canid and it works for me and my pack of 20+ house dogs. Without pack heirachy, there would be utter mayhem and bloodhsed here. As it is, there is none since I am supreme leader/alpha bitch/pack leader and I make the rules. The main rule is, no attacking any creature which is a member of our pack. That means cats, dogs, rats, rabbits, goats, poultry etc.
> ...


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> I think dog training depends on the dogs tempermant. Some dogs react better to a firmer hand while others will fall to pieces, I have many dogs here and have used different training methods with them all. My GSD bitch would have been the dog from hell if I had trained her in a less dominant manner as she used to lunge and go for people and strange dogs, shes 7 years old now and has turned into a wonderful bitch. On the other hand if I had used this method(non violent) on some of my others they would have ended up nervous wrecks


I'm not saying never use a firm hand, just like I'm not saying to never ever say no. You can be firm but still be fair and use positive reinforcement methods 

I guess it's different though for households with only one dog and for households with several dogs. I onyl have on dog as of yet and I haven't encountered any problems with the way I've trained him. Shall have to see if my views/opinions changes when I turn my lone dog into a pack


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> I'm not saying never use a firm hand, just like I'm not saying to never ever say no. You can be firm but still be fair and use positive reinforcement methods
> 
> I guess it's different though for households with only one dog and for households with several dogs. I onyl have on dog as of yet and I haven't encountered any problems with the way I've trained him. Shall have to see if my views/opinions changes when I turn my lone dog into a pack


 
I have 11 house dogs:whistling2:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> I have 11 house dogs:whistling2:


Yep that'll do it  What do you have? And would you like some cake?


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> I have 11 house dogs:whistling2:


 Where do you live..... in the shed??


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Yep that'll do it  What do you have? And would you like some cake?


Mmmm cake, yes please 
I have:-
1 GSD F
1 Rottie M
2 Lurchers F F
1 Springer x collie F
1 Patterdale x F
1 Staffy X F
2 Cavalier king charles M M
1 Yorkie x M
1 Min. Poodle F


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> I'm not saying never use a firm hand, just like I'm not saying to never ever say no. You can be firm but still be fair and use positive reinforcement methods
> 
> I guess it's different though for households with only one dog and for households with several dogs. I onyl have on dog as of yet and I haven't encountered any problems with the way I've trained him. Shall have to see if my views/opinions changes when I turn my lone dog into a pack


 
i have 3 dogs now but have had up to 11 dogs here 

an you have to use all different methods of training for different dogs specially if you want a happy house 

i have 3 huskies and 3 cats an skunks too...................huskies are frowned upon being good with small animals 

i will 100% agree 

though i have done it...........i have to be on my toes all the time and make sure the dogs know im incharge 

i dont have to hit them or be nasty with them i use tone of voice with training and treat rewards 

its been hard work getting them all to get along an i will never 100% trust or let my gaurd down for the safety of all my animals


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

snakewhisperer said:


> Where do you live..... in the shed??


Nope we share the house with the dogs


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## Ian.g (Nov 23, 2006)

fenwoman said:


> and this is a great example of why you need to know what you are doing with a shock collar. The scene you described would not happen with someone experienced because the child should not be wandering about loose during a training session.
> Every 10 years or so there comes another training method which is hailed as the way to train dogs, all others being unworkable/cruel/outdated.
> I understand it's the same with child rearing gurus.
> A bit of common sense works wonders. I personally subscribe to the pack theory. It works for wild canid and it works for me and my pack of 20+ house dogs. Without pack heirachy, there would be utter mayhem and bloodhsed here. As it is, there is none since I am supreme leader/alpha bitch/pack leader and I make the rules. The main rule is, no attacking any creature which is a member of our pack. That means cats, dogs, rats, rabbits, goats, poultry etc.
> ...


 
for once i 100% agree with you! :gasp: this is exactly how i train my dogs...and the kids! lol for example, when Leo (my 7 month odd old american bulldog) is standing there peeing on the living room floor, should i just ignore it? of course not! he gets a very firm "NO" and then gets put outside to finish up...if he does finish up then he gets praised for it, the same applies when he is sitting there eating a pair of socks! or his bed, or up on the side pulling the sugar onto the floor (or whatever else he can reach) and as a side note he was totaly clean in the house up until a couple of weeks ago...but the last few weeks he has been going through the very testing "push my luck/teenager stage".....i did think he had a bladder infection after his op, but after just under a week of being firmer with him, and a slight change in routine he seems to have stopped the peeing in the house (touch wood!)


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Mmmm cake, yes please
> I have:-
> 1 GSD F
> 1 Rottie M
> ...


 So a houseful then  And I thought I was mad with one nutty rotti cross :whistling2: Should beamusing by nextyear when I have my collie and my shepherd! 

*passes the cake*


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> So a houseful then  And I thought I was mad with one nutty rotti cross :whistling2: Should beamusing by nextyear when I have my collie and my shepherd!
> 
> *passes the cake*


 

Most of them are middleaged or old and Ive really enjoyed my pack but would I do it again?? The answer is NO

*Eats cake Mmmmmm*


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Most of them are middleaged or old and Ive really enjoyed my pack but would I do it again?? The answer is NO
> 
> *Eats cake Mmmmmm*


I don;t think I would ever be able to have as many as 11. 3 or 4 or maybe 5 maximum (at risk of death from my partner). I guess time will tell how i cope with it and I'll report back!


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> Nope we share the house with the dogs


 Yeah I did actually guess that. I'm also guessing their not 11 old english mastiffs!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Shell195 said:


> Mmmm cake, yes please
> I have:-
> 1 GSD F
> 1 Rottie M
> ...





snakewhisperer said:


> Yeah I did actually guess that. I'm also guessing their not 11 old english mastiffs!


 






:lol2: You guessed right


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

this thread is been quite buisy today lol what are we talking about ive been afk for a while lol ???


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> this thread is been quite buisy today lol what are we talking about ive been afk for a while lol ???


You missed out on cake


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

I agree with FuzzyFurry 100% here!

As for Milan's TV programmes stating "do not try these techniques without seeking professional help" or whatever it is, that fails big time! How many people, in real life & on here, have you seen or heard saying they saw a technique on Milan's show & tried it with their dog? Plenty! And idiots they are! 

Again, we see the blinkered views of "the dogs he works with are on their last chance" etc, but is the Boston Terrier & x breed who scratch through a door to get back in the house classed as red-zone cases (or whatever it is he calls them)? Or the dog who is scared of having it's claws clipped (so is pinned to the ground by Milan whilst having it's claws clipped in terror)?


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## snakewhisperer (Nov 13, 2009)

Shell195 said:


> :lol2: You guessed right


 what a fab mix:2thumb: most of my favourites are there!!!


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

And regarding the dog Milan 'trained' to avoid Rattlesnakes with a shock collar, here's a novel idea.....................................

how about keeping the dog on a lead whilst in areas where Rattlesnakes may be??? :gasp:


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## Zoo-Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Jaykickboxer, Milan's methods may work, but personally I prefer methods that do not rely on quick fixes using fear & intimidation. I prefer methods that might take longer to enforce, but are ultimately much more humane, & allow the dog to think for itself.


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> You missed out on cake


 
lol what cake was it :lol2:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> lol what cake was it :lol2:


Banana and chocolate  There was loads but then some greedy mare came and ate it all :whistling2:

I'll blame the rats!


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Banana and chocolate  There was loads but then some greedy mare came and ate it all :whistling2:
> 
> I'll blame the rats!


 
cool whats next on the menu ?


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> cool whats next on the menu ?


Mmmmm flapjack? We have a surplus of it. I went on a baking spree yesterday and made loads of things but put way too much sugar chocolate and syrup in, so they make you buz for 10 minutes then give you a headache and make you feel ill. My housemates are avoiding them like the plague


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Mmmmm flapjack? We have a surplus of it. I went on a baking spree yesterday and made loads of things but put way too much sugar chocolate and syrup in, so they make you buz for 10 minutes then give you a headache and make you feel ill. My housemates are avoiding them like the plague


 
lol il give one a try


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

At your own risk  *passes some flapjack and some emergency paracetemol*

So, what problems does your dog have anyway that requires the help of Cesar Milan?


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> At your own risk  *passes some flapjack and some emergency paracetemol*
> 
> So, what problems does your dog have anyway that requires the help of Cesar Milan?


wont let no one in our house and others so my sister asked him can he see her at a show but then he asked would be prefer if he comes to the house so my sister said yes and all we are doing now is waiting =):2thumb:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> wont let no one in our house and others so my sister asked him can he see her at a show but then he asked would be prefer if he comes to the house so my sister said yes and all we are doing now is waiting =):2thumb:


Ah fair enough, good luck with that and all  Hope it works out for you


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Ah fair enough, good luck with that and all  Hope it works out for you


 
thank you good luck with the flap jacks lol and the cake if you do another one to eat =) 

keep this thread entertaind for me lol


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> thank you good luck with the flap jacks lol and the cake if you do another one to eat =)
> 
> keep this thread entertaind for me lol


Probably won;t do cake again for a loooong time. Feeling a bit fat now, luckily I'm going for a nice loooooong walk with the mutt tomorrow!  

I'm sure they can keep themselves entertained  They just need someone to start them off  They buggared off with all the bloody popcorn though >_<


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Probably won;t do cake again for a loooong time. Feeling a bit fat now, luckily I'm going for a nice loooooong walk with the mutt tomorrow!
> 
> I'm sure they can keep themselves entertained  They just need someone to start them off  They buggared off with all the bloody popcorn though >_<


 
lololol well let me start a food buffet to start things going on the menu is what ever eny one likes lol


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> lololol well let me start a food buffet to start things going on the menu is what ever eny one likes lol


Oooh Ooooh Ooooh Nachos please  I'm craving them!


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Oooh Ooooh Ooooh Nachos please  I'm craving them!


i hant tried them are they nice with katchup


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> i hant tried them are they nice with katchup


Nah ketchup makes them go soggy. Try salsa and lots of cheese instead, then melt the cheese. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Nah ketchup makes them go soggy. Try salsa and lots of cheese instead, then melt the cheese. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


 
i only like cheese on pizza 

and i only like butter on toast 

i hate salsa 

i hate mayo 

i hate custerd

i like garlic only Garlic Bread i will eat 

am i wierd lol ?


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

You had to mention popcorn  I haz some microwave popcorn in the cupboard and it's calling me :lol2:


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

*H* said:


> You had to mention popcorn  I haz some microwave popcorn in the cupboard and it's calling me :lol2:


Do it! Though the last screening has been and passed for tonight


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2009)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Do it! Though the last screening has been and passed for tonight


lol i just ate sweet popcorn and now i am off to bed thanks for talking now il talk to you on this thread tomorrow gd night :2thumb:


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

FuzzyFurry said:


> Do it! Though the last screening has been and passed for tonight


Not for me as I haven't read the thread yet :lol2: just the last page and got distracted by the popcorn... right gonna go make some and amuse myself with this thread


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> lol i just ate sweet popcorn and now i am off to bed thanks for talking now il talk to you on this thread tomorrow gd night :2thumb:


G'Night!


*H* said:


> Not for me as I haven't read the thread yet :lol2: just the last page and got distracted by the popcorn... right gonna go make some and amuse myself with this thread


Ooooh enjoy then


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## *H* (Jun 17, 2007)

Well that killed half hour! and the popcorn was lush (will have to Hoover my keyboard in the morning) 
Anyways... my take on the 'praise the good ignore the bad' as it's a method I use with mine, it is depends what 'crime' has taken place as to how much ignoring you do. 
For instance, puppy piddle training - when the pup piddles in the right place, lots of praise, coo noises, cuddles and kisses, piddle in the wrong place - nothing. I believe the pup then learns it's the wrong place as the attention hasn't been given and should use the 'right' place to get the attention. However a dog getting hold of the postman should not be ignored! I don't think no one would ever suggest it should be, and as for putting the dog in another room... too right! If my well trained, obedient people loving pooch suddenly had a change of personality and got hold of someone, they will then most definitely be put in another room while I access the situation and what the hell is going on with my dog. I have seen a dog once it 'turns' and unfortunately that was a Japanese Akita... No chance would I sit in the same room with it, even if it's my pet that I've trained or not! It's a time bomb waiting to go off.

And no, CM's methods ain't for me.


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## Jacs (Jun 7, 2009)

awwwwwh i missed it while i was sleeping and working!! how crappy!


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Zoo-Man said:


> And regarding the dog Milan 'trained' to avoid Rattlesnakes with a shock collar, here's a novel idea.....................................
> 
> how about keeping the dog on a lead whilst in areas where Rattlesnakes may be??? :gasp:


Yes Colin, but you don't know the circumstances. The dog could be an outdoor dog and we all know snakes don't recognise boundaries - just a thought!

Well this thread went mad last night, when I got up this morning I sat down- not without a little relish (*not* the food kind) to see what had been said on the 5 pages that were posted after I went to bed and it was all about food! Nowt to do with dogs! :lol2:


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

Sadly I missed this last night. . . . children always make you miss the fun stuff :lol2:.

Anyway, people on here seem VERY confused with the cesar methods. . 

A - He mainly uses vibrating collars NOT shock collars as stated before. I know in one episode he used a shock collar on Daddy but in my opinion thats better than a dog being bitten by a snake! Or would all you anti CM's rather your dog die or stay on lead 24/7 than be shocked a couple of times? I wonder how you lot feel about electric fences for horses. are they cruel too - mabey risking them getting onto a road is safer :lol2:

B - Ignoring a dogs bad behavior wont work - especially if its biting people or dogs! Whats worse a dog wearing a prong collar or a child/dog being attacked? I know what i'd choose.

C - No dog died whilst under hsi care, yes there was a treadmill incident but the dog DID NOT DIE and it wasnt cesar who put it on the treadmill in the first place!

D - If him methods are so cruel and horiffic like some are trying to portray why are his dogs not terrified of him? and why do his methods work so well? Sometimes you have to be a little hard or "pushy" to train an animal - look at the equine world - physical touch doesnt have to be hard/cruel to be effective but it is needed!


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## FuzzyFurry (Dec 13, 2009)

feorag said:


> Yes Colin, but you don't know the circumstances. The dog could be an outdoor dog and we all know snakes don't recognise boundaries - just a thought!
> 
> Well this thread went mad last night, when I got up this morning I sat down- not without a little relish (*not* the food kind) to see what had been said on the 5 pages that were posted after I went to bed and it was all about food! Nowt to do with dogs! :lol2:


Sorry  Y'all had gone to bed and it was just me and Matt!



girlsnotgray said:


> Sadly I missed this last night. . . . children always make you miss the fun stuff :lol2:.
> 
> Anyway, people on here seem VERY confused with the cesar methods. .
> 
> ...


Hello 

A - I think most vibrating collars do han option to shock. I mean if it is pretty easy to ignore a little vibrating and if the dog doesn;t listen, then what do you do?

B - I personally think there are better methods of training dogs not to bite people than using shock/prong collars in the first place and a lot better methods to deal with it if it does happen. By using a shock or prong collar on a dog that has just bitten someone, all you will serve to do is confuse the poor beast and possibly make itmore agitated

C - Creulty doesn't have to involve death. If he went around and ended up killing dogs his show would get axed. Death and using methods to make the dog fear him are completely different.

D - The problem is with his shows is that you do not see any sort of 'aftercare'. All you see is 'bad dog, in steps cesar milan who does his thing, bad dog turns good'. No revisiting 6 months later or anything to find out how they are getting on. And I don;t know why his dogs love him so much, maybe because dogs do that. They see him as their leader and dogs, being the devoted beasties they are, adore him. My uncle used to hit their dog (RIP Buddy) but it still happily followed him round, tail wagging and tongue lolling out.

I'm off out to walk the dogs now, see you all later


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## girlsnotgray (Dec 28, 2009)

In most of the programs it does show a revisit later on? Im not saying that you use a prong to punish the dog but it is a preventative method for when out walking. If a dog really is agressive and hard to control I would much rather it wore a prong than risk it in a flat collar with the chance of it attacking someone!


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