# 17 egg Royal Clutch....This is a BIG girl!!!



## Mike Wilbanks

Hello everyone,
In 2002, A friend of mine, Webb Tilton, bought a normal female from Kingsnake. She was absolutely the biggest Ball Python that I had ever seen. She was around 6000grams at the time. He bought her for $250. She produced a nice clutch of 12 eggs for him that year. I had to have her, so I offered him $1000 for her. He accepted and I have had her ever since. She has laid a nice clutch for me every year. The smallest clutch she has ever laid was 13 eggs and she has never laid a slug. I guess because she eats retired breeder jumbo rats, she always has enough weight to produce every year. I looked up my records and she has laid 119 eggs for me since 2003. 

Going into this breeding season she weighed in at just over 8100grams. This year she laid 17/0. I've had some small retic clutches that size.



















I have kept every girl from her for the last few years. They are all unusual because they want to eat everything all of the time. None of them have ever had a fast. She obviously has something genetically special going on. They are super producers.

Here is one of her first daughters. This girl started the season at 4600grams and recently laid a clutch of 12 perfect eggs.  










Constrictors Unlimited


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## kenobi

That is unreal, she is a monster. Well done on such a massive clutch. she looks like a beast.
the Sire is pretty special by reading the label. good luck on some stunning offspring from her
Ryan


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## Ssthisto

Is it possible that she's one of the Sub-Saharan locality animals that are known to attain larger sizes and lay larger clutches?

Both her and her daughter seem to have pretty big, solid heads on them....


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## brndn16

Wow that an awsome number and I was chuffed with my 8 egg clutch!


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## peterf

Huge clutch Mike!
Ssthisto is correct in that there is regional differences, in Ghana at least. The bigger and healthier royals are found in the mid section of Ghana especially the forest areas.
Those in the Northern parts are the same as those found in the southern sector in the savannah areas.
The bigger snakes have larger clutches of more eggs as opposed to bigger eggs.


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## fishboy

Wow....Just.....wow! :2thumb:


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## DE73

that is amazing


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## excession

Brilliant


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## Matt Harris

peterf said:


> Huge clutch Mike!
> Ssthisto is correct in that there is regional differences, in Ghana at least. The bigger and healthier royals are found in the mid section of Ghana especially the forest areas.
> Those in the Northern parts are the same as those found in the southern sector in the savannah areas.
> .


What is this based on? I've never seen any evidence for this (not saying there isn't any, just never seen it published). 

If it's based on conjecture from exporters, I would be inclined to be dubious about this information as I've worked with exporters from Ghana, Togo and Benin, and none have ever mentioned any geographic variation.


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## peterf

I haven't seen any published data on this but it is fairly common knowledge with the trappers and exporters and, having first visited Ghana over 20 Years ago I have seen the difference of clutch size from snakes from these regions.
I first had knowledge of this around 1990 and the trappers would be paid more for gravid females from these regions as egg output was higher. I recall average egg lays in excess of 10 from these snakes.


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## Nix

That is a big girl and a huge clutch. Looking good!


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## cornmorphs

you jammy git Mike... good plan on keeping back the females though lol.. no surprise there:Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Mike Wilbanks

peterf said:


> I haven't seen any published data on this but it is fairly common knowledge with the trappers and exporters and, having first visited Ghana over 20 Years ago I have seen the difference of clutch size from snakes from these regions.
> I first had knowledge of this around 1990 and the trappers would be paid more for gravid females from these regions as egg output was higher. I recall average egg lays in excess of 10 from these snakes.


Hi Peter,
I am not sure of the honesty of the exporters, but starting in about 2001, I received a few hundred baby females from Ghana because I heard that the babies were bigger. I raised them and now most of those females lay small clutches of really big eggs. The babies are bigger, but not really what I am trying to accomplish. This girl is unusual because she will NEVER refuse a meal. Her daughters have been the same. They all lay big clutches of more average size eggs. 

Are you saying that there is another region with animals that have these characteristics? Or are you saying animals from Ghana are like this girl? Again, my experience is limited to the honesty of the exporter that just because they were exported from Ghana, they were also collected there. But, my girls from Ghana, have not been what I want. I want a big snake, that lays large clutches of average sized eggs. I have girls from her from almost every codom morph(I have never made hets with her). Most of the Fire stuff that I held back is from her and I have some giant Fire girls. I guess time will tell how consistent the genetics are, but it is nice to have a special animal like this to help build my collection.

Mike


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## lawrencet1988

That is insane! Are you selling any of the daughters?


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## Ssthisto

Mike Wilbanks said:


> Are you saying that there is another region with animals that have these characteristics?


The specific region I'd heard about with the extremely large "Sub-Saharan locality" royals (apparently not just females, but males too) was the Volta area.


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## corny girl

Wow Mike, do any of your other Royals lay big clutches? That's great that she never refuses food. I have one of your Super Pastels (bought him from Chris, Rubbleuk) & he is a bit of a dustbin. He hardly ever refuses a feed (only when in shed).


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## Mike Wilbanks

lawrencet1988 said:


> That is insane! Are you selling any of the daughters?


No, I am still keeping all the babies from her. I will have some of her granddaughters for sale. I am not posting this for sales so much as just to show something that I think is possible genetically with the Royals. I think that it might be possible to build a collection where most of your females have something like a 12 egg average which is a big advantage over someone that is working with a 6 egg average, obviously. 

I have been woking this through for 8 years now and I have solid clutch data from her offspring and soon their offspring. So, I think it is more than just one special animal. There is something genetically different going on here. 

Let me know what morphs you are interested in and I will tell you if and when I will have babies hatching from her daughters. The clutch from her daughter in this post is a Calico clutch and it will hatch in a couple of months. I will be in England with Bob in June but this clutch will not be in time for then, but I will be back in September. I know that I have a Spider clutch hatching next week that was from one of her daughters. This girl was only 2500grams, but laid 12 eggs. Later in June I have a girl that laid her first clutch, she was 1800 grams going into the season and she laid 12 eggs!


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## Mike Wilbanks

corny girl said:


> Wow Mike, do any of your other Royals lay big clutches? That's great that she never refuses food. I have one of your Super Pastels (bought him from Chris, Rubbleuk) & he is a bit of a dustbin. He hardly ever refuses a feed (only when in shed).


I am working with many females that lay very large clutches. This 17 egg is the most that I have even heard of, but I am regularly getting 12-15 egg clutches from her offspring. I wonder if it will ever be possible to get a 20 egg clutch. Has anyone ever even heard about a clutch that big?

Glad your Super Pastel is doing well. Never refuses a meal? That sounds like my baby.


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## corny girl

Mike Wilbanks said:


> I am working with many females that lay very large clutches. This 17 egg is the most that I have even heard of, but I am regularly getting 12-15 egg clutches from her offspring. I wonder if it will ever be possible to get a 20 egg clutch. Has anyone ever even heard about a clutch that big?
> 
> Glad your Super Pastel is doing well. Never refuses a meal? That sounds like my baby.



Wow i hope when i start breeding i can get some big clutches (well i'd be happy with a 6-8 clutch :2thumb.

Yeah apparently the Super was a slow starter but since i've had him (end of January) he's packing the mice away (yet to convert him to rats). He's a July 09 & is now 329g (this is all the hatch details i have for him). He's a lovely Super & getting brighter with each shed, i'm really proud of him (pics of him in my Royal album in my profile). Thank you for breeding him :no1:.


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## lawrencet1988

1800grams and 12 eggs from her first clutch? how?..........


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## Mike Wilbanks

lawrencet1988 said:


> 1800grams and 12 eggs from her first clutch? how?..........


I have no idea. The eggs are much smaller than any of the others. I will keep everything from this clutch to see if these babies, when mature will also have small eggs. I will also be interested to see what kind of clutch she will lay next year.


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## peterf

Hi Mike,
It would be nice to do some proper research into these interesting variations but I guess we're never going to have time to do it!
I will dig out my notes but the "big clutch" snakes were well known of when I first visited Ghana and I made notes and saw the clutch sizes.
We use to allow maternal incubation then and all the females and clutch sizes were noted. 
It is true that it is difficult to trust anyone in these Countries but we have been friends with this exporter for many Years. His family stay at my home when they are over and one of his sons stayed for a few Years!
The family are one of the oldest established exporters and actually started a certain Noah in business!
I'll try and find out a bit more information and will report back!


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## Ssthisto

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there are exporters who could obtain the "Sub-Saharan" - "Volta" region animals on behalf of someone like me?


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## peterf

There isn't much likleyhood of getting many snakes from the Volta region as the people there worship the royals as their Gods.
It is very difficult to collect royals from most parts of Volta, as you could be arrested, by the chiefs.
Aparts from the volta, they are also found in the some parts of Eastern region and Western region of Ghana where there is thick forest.


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## whitey007

Has there been any update on this?? What size is she now and are her granddaughters big laying big clutches?


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## Guest

No idea but a 6kg royal is nuts! Reminds me of the monster royal I saw at Manchester Museum when I did my work ex there.


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## StaneyWid

Yep ive pulled severe clutches myself and been doubted :2thumb: 

Good ur sharing this tho def put the silly little doubters who kno nuttin (Who i know r reading this :lol2

Cant wait to see them hatched :mf_dribble:


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## Montage_Morphs

Awesome thread! Its great to see you have documented this well and given us accurate figures from the original gal as well as her daughters. Its really interesting that they too are producing larger than normal clutches  6kg Royal sounds monsterous! And I thought 3kg gals were massive


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## Montage_Morphs

StaneyWid said:


> Yep ive pulled severe clutches myself and been doubted :2thumb:
> 
> Good ur sharing this tho def put the silly little doubters who kno nuttin (Who i know r reading this :lol2
> 
> Cant wait to see them hatched :mf_dribble:


Would be interesting to read your own figures ie weights and ages of your females and clutch sizes from each one to compare to these true beastly gals  prove those doubters wrong mate!


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## StaneyWid

Montage_Morphs said:


> Would be interesting to read your own figures ie weights and ages of your females and clutch sizes from each one to compare to these true beastly gals  prove those doubters wrong mate!


Ahahahah ur honestly brilliant!

Theres another word for it! Def aint doubters i was looking for eh : victory:


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## alan1

StaneyWid said:


> Yep ive pulled severe clutches myself and been doubted :2thumb:
> 
> Good ur sharing this tho def put the silly little doubters who kno nuttin (Who i know r reading this :lol2
> 
> *Cant wait to see them hatched* :mf_dribble:


Lol - i reckon they would've hatched about 2 years ago


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## kim1989

All I'm gonna say is......... WOW!


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## ReptileGary83

Just wow


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