# Water Dragon habitat with a difference



## Heywood_Floyd (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi People,

As this is a large post, I'll summarise for the lazy: *Can Water Dragons live with tropical fish?*

Read on if you're interested in what I'm hoping to achieve:

I've been keeping reptiles on and off over the years when my lifestyle's allowed me to (time, space, etc).

I am now considering getting some Water Dragons. I've always been very creative in the homes for my little pets, not just for them, but also to make them a bit more interesting to look at.
So, obviously I'd like to make a really cool rainforest environment for this. I recently saw a really good setup in a shop for water dragons that included waterfalls and mist, etc, but it was all in one big aquarium which I didn't like the idea of (bad for their noses, and a nightmare for cleaning)

I'm very good at building things, so I've had a cunning idea... I was considering making an actual glass, shallow aquarium section at the bottom that the vivarium connected to to provide the water dragon's swiming area, and then kitting it out with some shallow swimming tropical fish. Imagine a shallow fish tank with a sliding door, front opening vivarium on top and no lid to the tank section or floor to the vivarium (obviously it'd look more professional than just sticking 2 together lol!)

The 2 sections would integrate nicely, and appear very natural inside the environment.

The tank section would be fully kitted with it's own submersed heater, under-gravel filter, and the filter pump would supply the waterfall. There wouldn't be much in the way of decor in the water, to allow for easy, regular cleaning, and the fish wouldn't be anything extravagant, just some nice easy, and hardy tropical fish.

So all of this is possible to build, and I could make it look very impressive, however, there is one big question that I can't find the answer to...

... can water dragons live with fish? I've read countless times that they eat small feeder fish now and then as part of a varied diet, but I would be talking about a few, slightly bigger fish that can move quickly (I've also read that there's no evidence that they chase or hunt fish in the wild anyway)... but that's not my main concern...

.. it's the health implications. Has anyone ever heard of anyone trying this before? Is there anything the fish could accidentally pass on to the Water Dragon through the water?

Have I gone mad and am not considering some other implications also?

I couldn't decide if this post should go in Habitat or Lizards, but I've put it here as it's more of a specific Water Dragon related question.

Cheers,
Paul.


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## lucas (Oct 29, 2008)

I've never kept water dragons before but I have read plenty of threads on here about the same topic so I'll give a go at answering your questions.

It is generally not a good idea to keep wds with any type of fish because they will most likely eat them, this doesn't sound too bad but fish in a pet shop often carry parasites and other nasties that could be passed on to the wd. 

I don't know if anything could be passed on through the water but I know from keeping fish myself that there are diseases and parasites that can wipeout entire fish tanks fairly quickly so it might affect the wd but I don't have a definite answer for that. 

Having said all that, it would look damn impressive if it could be pulled off.


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## Heywood_Floyd (Jan 5, 2009)

lucas said:


> Having said all that, it would look damn impressive if it could be pulled off.


Wouldn't it just! I'm not willing to take a risk just for impressiveness though, a healthy lizard comes first. I might make the whole set up anyway and just not add the fish if it comes to light that it's a bad idea.

The whole eating fish thing is interesting, as I've been reading pages that suggests that they don't do this?! Maybe size would be key, fast, larger but friendly fish might be an option to avoid them becoming food.



lucas said:


> this doesn't sound too bad but fish in a pet shop often carry parasites and other nasties that could be passed on to the wd.


I'd be looking at quite a long period before introducing the wd, I'd want the whole environment to settle in a bit, keep an eye on temperatures and humidity, and make sure the fish are healthy, etc.



lucas said:


> I have read plenty of threads on here about the same topic


Really? I couldn't find any :s


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

I know people that keep WDs with tropical fish.. but they tend to try to eat them

personally i wouldnt i cant see the point... whats the point in making this wonderful visual beautiful habitat for the lizard to do what comes naturally and eat the fish

I have rescued WDs in the past and also keep a lovely female whos habitat iwill be upgrading with a sunken pool and external filter this year but id far prefer her to be able to swim in the pool..

whish she couldnt do if there were fish in it.. the fish would get damaged potentially by her tail or claws ans stressed and she could easily eat the,.. they DO eat fish occasionalyl in the wild if the fish are smallish..

i think the risk of contamination to the fish with WD droppings is quite high too..

Just my tuppenceworth 

edited to ad... keeping an eye on the fish wont tell you if theres any parasites or they are safe either.. wathing these things cant microscopically show you..

im not sure id bother risking it for just the visual beauty of it id prefer to keep both species safe


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## lucas (Oct 29, 2008)

Ok so I found this thread from a while back:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/3360-water-dragons-fish.html

I read a good point in there that wds will mostly use their water as the toilet which would send nitrate levels pretty high which could kill the fish too, it would also make changing the water daily a right pain.

But yeah, I would still advise against it just to be safe.


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Give it a go. See how it works for you. 

Good luck.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Water dragons will always choose fresh water to poo in..

always

this is why its advised that u change their water twice a day..

the minute u put clean water in WHAM thats it ..

so if ure keeping fish in clean water by instinct they will poo in it..

for example in the wild they choose to poo in water so their scent is taken away and it keeps them safer from predators.. they also prefer to poo in water BELOW their resting branches..

all in all it seems that yes it may work.. for a while but the risks are fairly high..

also if a WD eats a fish with something wrong with it... thats going to be tricky.. and possibly it could make it unwell etc


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Oh yeah, use a pump and a filter too for the CWD's . They do this in very good enclsure at a rep shop I know. Helps keep their water clean:2thumb:


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## Heywood_Floyd (Jan 5, 2009)

lucas said:


> Ok so I found this thread from a while back:
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/3360-water-dragons-fish.html


There's someone in that thread that seems to think they had a set up with fish going for a while with no issues.

I'm starting to wonder that if I take as many precautions as possible (over do it on the filtering, etc) and experiment with just a few fish, I should be ok.. I've plenty of established aquariums around to whisk them out into if it all turns south anyway!


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Heywood_Floyd said:


> There's someone in that thread that seems to think they had a set up with fish going for a while with no issues.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder that if I take as many precautions as possible (over do it on the filtering, etc) and experiment with just a few fish, I should be ok.. I've plenty of established aquariums around to whisk them out into if it all turns south anyway!


Exactly. Give it a go. Get some pics. I'd like to see them.: victory:


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## ShaneLuvsMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

With regard to parasites etc the world longest recorded tapeworm is a fish tapeworm with regard to parasites being passed on would say yes.


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## Heywood_Floyd (Jan 5, 2009)

sparkle said:


> also if a WD eats a fish with something wrong with it... thats going to be tricky.. and possibly it could make it unwell etc


These are my biggest concerns yes... a) that the poor fish will get eaten and b) this will make the WD ill. 

The pollution of the water isn't a huge concern for me, I'm an experienced fish keeper, and I can keep on top of that with filtration and water changes.

This is one of those things that I'll never know unless I try... I'll probably end up building it all, getting the WDs in, and never plucking up the courage to go the final distance with the fish! lol.


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## Dextersdad (Mar 28, 2008)

Oh yeah, be sure the fish aren't going to be toxit to the lizard. If you've covered all the bases, try it out.


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

have to disagree with give it a go... fish tapeworms are indeed vile vile things.. and theres no single one way to tell what is going on inside the fish u buy.. its simply a HOPE not a definate that this experiment would be alright and its 100% impossible to cover all bases.. tapeworms and fish disease is not visual to the eye.. so bases like that cant be covered..

it comes down to RISK.. are u as a keeper willing to take the risk.. if the answer is yes.. then by al means do it.. but my answer is no.. if i risked this and my lizard subsequently died of anyhting to do with the experiment id never forgive myself
some like to experiment with RISK some dont.. I prefer my experiments to be with decor and waterfalls .,. keep it 100% safe

i also prefer to err on side of caution when it comes to the safety and health of my animals.. and i would not be totally sure that the fish would not pass something onto my WD therefore for the sake of asthetic beauty the risk for me outweights the pretty cute tank idea


Risk is the main issue here..

and that in life is something we must judge for ourselves..

I love taking risks ..but not with my animals. they dont have the choice so to impose risk on them... for me.. is not something I wish to consider..

Safety and safe captive keeping is my preference


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## Nebbz (Jan 27, 2008)

tbh i think its trial and error? or maby have a separate area for the water dragons to do there buisness in, and put mesh over the fish bit to keep them safe. but clear mesh

could confuse the water dragon why its walking on the water but guess its possible...thats if you dont want the fish eaten anywho 

the fish would probly eat the poo tbh


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## AcePearce (Jan 17, 2011)

I've got a 14 inch CWD in a 55g Long, and the bottom is 5-6 inches of water with an in-tank filter. There's a 9-inch Senegal Bichir (Dinosaur Eel) that lives in the water. He's been in there for a couple months now, and we haven't had a single problem. Admittedly, he's a big fish, but he's an air-breather and can survive in pretty bad water, so when his aquarium got drained to become the water dragon enclosure, he got to stick around. He'll eat crickets, mealies, supers, etc. that escape our CWD, as well as bloodworms, krill, and mysis shrimp.

Again, this is an odd case, but it can be done.


EDIT: I purchased the fish from a reputable fish store in my area, who got it from a private breeder in the States (I live in the States). I had the fish for a year before it moved in with the CWD.


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## lee young (Oct 14, 2009)

Im not sure there would be much risk to the CWD, more to the fish. There will always be a risk of parasites with any feeder, be it crickets, mealworms or fish, as long as you get the fish from a reputable, knowledgeable breeder you should be fine.

The trickiest thing would be to keep the water clean enough for fish to live in it. Youd need a serious filter in addition to a skimmer. With enough filtration it could work. The only other thing is that ÇWD's like some floor space to run around and dig in occasionally, having no floor whatsoever might cause problems. Id say half floor/half aquarium would be best.


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## AcePearce (Jan 17, 2011)

I probably should have pointed out: I'm using a filter for a 55g tank in about 11 gallons of water. 

As a side note, I used to have a quiet pump, and it cut off on me. Blasted thing was off for 3 weeks and that bichir survived just fine.


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## kirky1980 (Apr 4, 2010)

i dont know anything about water dragons but why not speak to mr stroudy on here he has done his with fish and it looks great http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/617741-check-guy-out.html 

it may get you some more info on it : victory:


sorry ment to say clink the link in his sig not the thread lol


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## sambridge15 (Nov 22, 2009)

could you not use lots of fish that would eat animal waste effectivly making a closed eco system? provided the water area was large enough with a suitably large population of bottom feeders or whatever you would call them :lol2:i supose you would still need to clean the fish waste unless you wanted to follow the chain to the end :lol2:

its what i do with my dartfrog viv admittedly there about an inch in length but i have a colony of tropical woodlice and springtails as well as locally collected woodlice and my tanks been going since august and iv never cleaned it once :gasp:

frankly iv always found this section to be whats the word ...dull(no offence) give it a go a paludarium will look great with fish, the odds of a fish having any ill effects on the dragon will be tiny! im sure the wild fish suffer the same ilnesses as the cb you buy in a shop and as people have said in the wild the cwd will eat the odd fish so whats changed?people worry far to much not everything needs to be de-sterilised and made in lab conditions to be safe...lizards have existed for millions of years there not made of glass, some of the other sections (phibs!!!)are well alware of this and a frog is far far more susceptible to illness and yet we frequently use locally collected bugs wood moss,additions of fish (onemanandhisfrog has a very nice set up with frogs and fish) 

perhaps the only other alternative would be to use very small fish that wont draw the dragons attention or even source feeder fish bred in labritory conditions to be sure the fish your adding are safe if it will bring you peace of mind


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## abisheridee (Feb 27, 2010)

Nebbz said:


> the fish would probly eat the poo tbh


NO NO NO :bash:
fishes do not eat poo, never never never. bottom feeders don't eat other fishes poo so it makes me so maaaaad whn people tell me 'i've got a sucking loach so don't need to do water changes'

sorry to hav a go !! :blush:


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## onemanandhisfrog (Jul 20, 2009)

sambridge15 said:


> could you not use lots of fish that would eat animal waste effectivly making a closed eco system? provided the water area was large enough with a suitably large population of bottom feeders or whatever you would call them :lol2:i supose you would still need to clean the fish waste unless you wanted to follow the chain to the end :lol2:
> 
> its what i do with my dartfrog viv admittedly there about an inch in length but i have a colony of tropical woodlice and springtails as well as locally collected woodlice and my tanks been going since august and iv never cleaned it once :gasp:
> 
> ...


 
Thanks dude ^_^ :blush::2thumb:

id say sure why not, just make you do your research : victory:


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## OrigamiB (Feb 19, 2008)

Go for it! I'm currently planning a very similar viv design for my crested geckos. I'm using the Exo Terra 90x45x60 with a large area of water for fish and plenty of arboreal space for the geckos, at the end of the day you can cover all bases for peace of mind and make sure everything is 100% clean and healthy on the viv but I bet if your water dragon could take he'd tell you to stop pussy footing around and build this awesome viv already =P


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

That is an interesting question and not something that comes up very often, I think it would be an excellent idea doing something like this, however when projects like this are done you have to be 100% that the animals health will not be affected, meaning if you have any doubts what so ever dont do it. although I must admit a swimming area for water dragons would be beneficail I dont think perosnally it would be a good idea to try it.... it could go one of two ways (it will work or it wont) this is not something that has been done by the common hobbyist so you are probs going to get all kinds of different answers but in my expirience if you are not 100% certain about all of this dont do it.
If something can go wrong it will go wrong.

I think you have put alot of thought into it and you obvisouly have had alot of time to think this through, I can honestly say I am lost for words on this... personally I wouldnt do it as I would have doubts.
Most fish that enter the pet trade are sometimes riddled with disease and there is no way for certain to know that something could harm your water dragons so I would think this through extremely carefuly before you attempt this if indeed you do.

However I do like the idea of a swimming area for them still though.: victory:


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## Bamboozoo (Oct 2, 2009)

It will be 11 years this spring that this tank has been up and running. The fish do quite well, I had one experience with Ick that would be the extent of the fish being ill as far as my knowledge. The parrot fish have been in residence for the entire time. I recently had one of the pair die. I have had some waterdragons eat fish, snails, clawed frogs. But it was a wild caught. The waterdragon that resided here is now 11 (this spring).

As big a filter as you can get........I use externals. I use fish waste remover. 










This Aussie water dragon has a free roam situation, he doesnt mind the turtles and there are fish in this water as well....125 gallon pond. This has been 3 years that this has been working. This one works with a large pond pump and a boxed bio filter cleaned monthly.


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## Salazare Slytherin (Oct 21, 2009)

Nice setup :no1:


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

My CWD lived happily with fish for about a month, not bothering to try and eat any of them. Then one day a came in to the lounge in the morning and every single fish was dead, and not one was eaten. I don't know why my water dragon suddenly decided to go on a savage fish killing spree, but he did...


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

lovely setup btw


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## G.R/Trooper (Feb 20, 2011)

*=D*

I tried it, and before i tell you how it went i would just like to say about all these people that say there is a risk. Yes, you are quite right, but there is always a risk keeping animals whether it be keeping 1 or 10. Something, somewhere, will always go wrong. 

I too enjoy looking at a cool setup and strive to make mine a piece of art that others and i can appreciate. I kitted my CWD/AWD viv out with an aquarium down the bottom covering ~ 70% floor space and made the rest natural. If you are going for a natural setup then there is nothing better than providing water, and what they may encounter. 

My CWD's & AWD (Yes i keep them together) have NEVER gone for the fish, not a blind bit of notice. This isnt because they are bad feeders but more to do with lazyness. They dont really eat anything untill it comes towards THEM. 

The benefit i have is that mine are still fairly young and hardly ever poop in the water. And if they do im fortunate enough that my filter catches the muck and the time before water changes is increased. Remember fish swim around in their own shite all the time anyway. 

I have a heat mat under the aquarium just to help the water temps. I have an all-in-one pump & filter in there untill the WD's go in their "lifetime" viv. In the fish tank (im not 100% sure with names since the gf buys them) we have 3 different Danios, 6-10 Guppies, some fantails, and a few other things i cant remember the name of.

We have never had problems with fish eating, having health problems with fish, having health problems with the water dragons, and never problems with the fish being eaten.

I hope this helps, everyone has their own way and i am fortunate enough it works. It will depend on how your water dragons respond and what they are fed on, but it can work. I Wish you luck.

ps: a tank in the bottom of your viv would be a damn sight easier than integrating the two as seperate holding spaces.


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## 666PIT9 (Sep 23, 2010)

here some ideas, zebra fish seem to be the best i think 

YouTube - Aqua Terrarium - Paludarium - Acquaterrario (Teil 1)


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## waterdragon555 (Nov 27, 2010)

the water dragons will eat the fish and you will have to care for them too.Water dragons are hard to look after too.


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

waterdragon555 said:


> the water dragons will eat the fish and you will have to care for them too.Water dragons are hard to look after too.


I disagree entirely.

Mine has been homed with small feeder fish that it does indeed like to hunt, but larger fish would be left well enough alone providing they have enough room to swim and hide as they would in the wild.

And I certainly wouldn't say water dragons are hard to look after either.


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## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

not sure i understand your plan, but if you are a handy creative kind of person with the space, then couldnt you do a kind of tank in a tank in a viv? so you have the big viv planted and all set up then in the bottom a big fisk tank with a smaller one sat inside it and kind of frame around the top so the wd could get in and swim in the smaller tank but surrounding him in the bigger tank are tropical fish. so from the side of the viv it seems that the fish are in with the wd but there no actual contact with them

not sure im explaining this right


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

i cba to read through so i dont know if anyones told you this but too much fish in a cwd diet can kill them 

something to do with mercury or something

its advised if they do eat fish to keep it to a minimum
what i can suggest is a removable mesh lid mid way in the tank so the cwd cant get to them


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## Smigsy (Jul 30, 2009)

iDomino said:


> i cba to read through so i dont know if anyones told you this but too much fish in a cwd diet can kill them
> 
> something to do with mercury or something
> 
> ...


somebody posted earler fishy poo is bad, mesh lid wouldnt stop water contamination


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

iDomino said:


> i cba to read through so i dont know if anyones told you this but too much fish in a cwd diet can kill them
> 
> something to do with mercury or something
> 
> ...


Absolutely correct, they can eat it in moderation IE. when I put in feeder fish it was 2 or 3 per 2 weeks, when gone they were gone.


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Rthompson said:


> Absolutely correct, they can eat it in moderation IE. when I put in feeder fish it was 2 or 3 per 2 weeks, when gone they were gone.


 
yeah i got a few lil feeders here in a tank put 1 in its viv but it seems more interested in playing with it

love the name though for your cwd
wasnt leviroth some kind of sea serpant?


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

iDomino said:


> yeah i got a few lil feeders here in a tank put 1 in its viv but it seems more interested in playing with it
> 
> love the name though for your cwd
> wasnt leviroth some kind of sea serpant?


Aye, it's a Sea Serpent in WoW ^_^ Nice and geeky


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Rthompson said:


> Aye, it's a Sea Serpent in WoW ^_^ Nice and geeky


 thaught so lol

mines a lil geeky 
ponyo was a fish from a studio ghibli anime film


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## Rthompson (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh I love Ponyo


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Rthompson said:


> Oh I love Ponyo


 
<<< studio ghibli fan boy


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## Tombo46 (Aug 5, 2010)

iDomino said:


> <<< studio ghibli fan boy


Im a sucker for anime....Hayao Miyazaki's work is fantastic.


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## iDomino (Apr 23, 2011)

Tombo46 said:


> Im a sucker for anime....Hayao Miyazaki's work is fantastic.


 
the man speaks truth :2thumb:


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