# OMG so angry right now



## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

right as some of you might have read and a couple of you know from chatting, i recently (actually 2 weeks ago today) took in a pregnant cat that was not being looked after properly, now this is her 4th litter in less than 12 months as her old owner told me (who found it funny).
as the old owner also said the cat didnt look after her last litter and they all died, so when i found out she was pregnant again i took her after the owner said i dont feed her any more you can have her if you want her.

i have been feeding her up as was very skinny and have been giving her the love that she deserved, now yesterday wen i got home from work she jumped up on my lamp and with in 10 mins of being nice and comfy her waters broke on me (was not nice lol) so i ran up and got her birthing box and she went straight in and within 10mins she gave birth to her first kit who was a still born i tried my best but could not revive it, very soon after the first kit the second was born again a still born so i had my sister trying to revive that one while i was still trying the first one,
about 30 mins if that from her waters breaking the 3 kit was here this time moving and being very vocal, mummy cat was very good licking it and chewing the cord all well with that one mum doing a great job.

after that one she then starting having contractions agin and i saw wat i thought was the 4th one coming i gave her a few mins but nothing, and she then settled down again which i thought was strange an hour later still nothing so i phoned a vet and they said to just leave her be unless she is really struggling which she wasnt. 

anyway 3 and half hours later the 4th one just appeared with no warning and no moaning from mummy its alive and mummy cleaned it up and was letting it suckle 

by now the first to we prounanced dead  

i stayed up with her till 5am no more came so we went up stairs and i woke up every hour to check on her,

this morning everything looked ok she had cleaned her self and the 2 kittens were alive and well  i took the morning off work to stay with her and my mum took the afternoon shift but during the afternoon she went down hill very fast and started bleeding everywhere it was a mess  

so i took her to the vets thisevening and as i thought there is a kitten still inside her so the vet gave her something to induce labor to see if she could pass it on her own, keeping a close eye on her this evening she was getting worse very quickly and then started being sick so i rang the vet who told me to take her straight down and they will operate on her 

so she is now at the vets away from her kittens she is having the baby removed and he is also going to remove her womb which is a good thing as i was getting her spayed as soon as she was ready.

i am now sat here waiting for the vet to ring hoping that she will pull through it, i am sooooooooooo angry with her old owner and as soon as i see her in the shop again i am going to flip at her, how could she do this to a very young cat i hate people like that makes me so angry.

sorry for the rant i feel so bad for the cat if only she could speak for her self  

now off to hand feed the kits


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Poor cat what a hard sad life shes had. Will the vet give her back to you as soon as the op has been completed or will they keep her overnight. Im surprised they didnt keep the kittens in the vets too as then they could have put the kittens back as soon as it was safe to do so
Well done for taking her on


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## memzy emma (Aug 19, 2008)

Why dothes people get animals in the 1st place:bash:. Hope she's ok


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

oh hon, poor cat and poor you, hope she is ok (((((hugs))))


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## Lego (Jun 22, 2009)

That's awful, I really feel for the poor little thing  Some people really are scum!

I hope she's ok, please keep us updated x


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## Amalthea (Oct 2, 2007)

Poor Mama Kitty and poor you!!


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

right she is now home  the vet has removed the dead kitten and has also removed her ovarys and womb so this can never happen to her again, he has aslo said that her teats are deformed and only one or two are producing milk but he said they can still feed off her i just need to give thems some milk a few times aday just to make sure and to keep an eye on there weight.

she has now having some food (the vet said she could) and after that i will try and get her back with her kittens but she dont seem interested in them any more  so finger crossed she will take them back.

thank you all for your kind words


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Sometimes cats get confused after they've had a c-section. She may have 'forgotten' she gave birth to these kittens, so might need a bit of bonding time.

Do you have any accurate kitchen scales in your house? If you do I would suggest that you weigh both kittens, because if there might be a problem with them feeding you need to know that they are growing and sometimes a weight loss or lack of weight gain will be seen on the scales before it will be seen by the naked eye.

Most kittens weigh anything between 75g - 110g when they are born - the average will be around about 90g-100g. They should increase by their birth weight every week, so at 1 week old they should weigh between 150g-220g. etc. This means a weight gain of at least 10g per day. Some kittens will put on 15g or 20g a day, then only 5g, but they should gain something every day. If you can weigh them it will help you to see that they are getting food from their mother as well as yourself.


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i have put her and her kittens in the pet carrier is quite big so i will leave them together over night setting my alarm for every 2 hours to see how they are doing. i have weighed them and the first one born is 116g and the second one is 108g so will weigh them every day  thank you for your advice 

both the kittens are trying to feed but she wont sit down as i think i might feel a bit sore after that i dont blame her. 

i have the milk ready for the night feeds will just need to warm it up, shall i still feed every 2 hours??


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## EVIEMAY (Mar 6, 2008)

Poor little thing she has been through so much but at least she now has you - I wish you all the best and hope they all go from strenght to strenght.

Good luck with the night feeds ...


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

I would offer milk 2 hourly overnight unless you see her nursing them herself and if she isnt ceaning them you need to gently massage their tummys and bums until they go to the toilet. You will probably find that they just wee to start with. Have you tried sitting with her and stroking her to calm her then putting the kittens near her teats until they latch on. Once they manage this her hormones should kick in and she will remember that these are her kittens. Make sure she drinks plenty of fluid as this will stimulate her milk flow


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Those are both excellent weights - a lot of my kittens were 100g or under!!

To be totally honest I wouldn't personally be rushing to feed them every 2 hours, because they need to try to feed from their mother to stimulate the milk, otherwise her milk will dry up if they don't feed from her, odd nipples or not! 

Even when I had kittens that couldn't feed, I only fed them 3 hourly, so if it was me, I would check them out 3 hourly - if you think they've managed to feed from their mum, then I wouldn't feed them until I checked to see if they're gaining weight.

Weigh them in the morning and see if they've put anything on, but don't panic if they don't, just make sure you weigh them at the same time every day. Over the first day you might only see a 5g gain, on the other hand you could see a 20g gain, but like I said 10g-15g is great!


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

When we have kittens born by c section and the mum isnt interested we find that offering them smal feeds 2 hourly builds there strength up and stops them suffering from Hypoglycemia as newborns go down hill very quickly, If however you actually see her paying attention to the kittens and nursing them them you should leave them in peace


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i had to let her out of the box through the night as she was getting very grumpy  i moved the kittens back in to the nesting box where there was a hot water bottle to keep them warm, i kept checking on the through the night and offered them some food but they didnt want it  checked on the a couple more times through the night and mummy was with them so i tried to get them to suckle from her only problem is i dont no which niple is def producing milk, but i have just checked on the again and they are both trying to suckle and i have seen mummy grroming them again, i did have to take the water bottle out though as mummy didnt like lying on it. i have the next 2 days off work so will keep an eye on them and my mate will be here wen im at work.

im so glad she is getting back into i love all 3 of them and will probkeep both kittens lol

edit 
and mummy too just need to think of a nice name for her now


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## Captainmatt29 (Feb 28, 2009)

awww thats sweet atleast she has now taken them in 

well done in your efforts, i feel the public tend to be more efficiant than the rspca


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

One of the main problems with kittens suckling is that they tend to choose one nipple and that becomes 'theirs' and it can be quite hard to get them to accept another one. Sometimes 2 kittens choose the same nipple and that gets even more problematical, but things do sort themselves out.

She's obviously getting over her post-op confusion (and who can blame her for being confused after all that trauma!) and has accepted the kittens and that's excellent. Once you've weighed them you'll know if they've been getting any milk from her. It's very probable that they have and that's why they wouldn't take any milk from you.

One of the problems of locking her in a box is that she cannot get to a litter tray and of course when they're lactating they need to drink lots of water and so they pee a lot - they're also cleaning up kitten wee and poo and so they tend to poo a lot too and queens _hate_ doing the toilet anywhere near their nest, cos that could encourage a predator to their nest.

Edit: Also, forgot to ask, is the kitten box big enough for her to lie away from the hot water bottle? If it isn't then you just need to have a bigger box with the hot water bottle at one end, so that she can lie somewhere cool and then when she goes out of the box to use the litter tray or to eat, if the kittens get cold they will crawl over and lie on the bottle.


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## Jono2411 (Feb 10, 2009)

WTF is wrong with some people in this world? That poor cat.. i really hope she pulls through and you are a complete legend for the care and love you have been giving her. Have you reported this evil person to the RSPCA? Or if not just put the name and address somewhere and hopefully someone will get this person and keep them in the condition that they felt was ok for a cat to be kept in....


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i have taken the hot water bottle out and she is a lot better with the kittens now she very rearly leaves them but yes i think i box is big enough for her to get away from it now if i dont put it in the middle of the box.

no i have not reported them but as far as i no she does the same with her dogs back to back breed them and finds it funny.

all in all my baby is doing really well and so are her babys


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I used a thermostatically controlled heat mat for my kittens, but they were only on it for a few days, no more than 1½ weeks winter. We have central heating and our house is not a cold house, so I didn't think the kittens needed a constant heat source once they'd past the critical stage and were growing and gaining weight. Once you know they're putting weight on, in this summer heat, that should be sufficient and they won't need a hot water bottle.

Glad to hear everything is going well! : victory:


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

im a bit worried about mummy cat tonight i have not seen her eat drink or use the litter tray today and she has only come out of the box once today, i have offered her her normal food which is still down and some tuna as its smelly, she also has biccys and fresh water down at all times and i have also tried to offer her some lactol wen i feed the kittens.

is it normal for her to be this quiet after such a big op?

i have rang the on call vet and she was not very helpfull just saying she will be ok untill i see the guy that done the op tomo  

so just wondering wat you guys think i should try she ate loads last night when she came home just nothing today and the litter tray is still very clean not a piece of litter out of place please help 

oh just weighed the kitten the oldest one is propper fatty today weighing in at 130g (116g yesterday) but the other one is only 110g (108g yesterday)


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

So it looks like one of your kittens has got a good nipple and one maybe not so good, but it is good that neither of them have lost weight, given that the queen has been through so much stress in the last 24 hours. The fact that the smaller one has put even 2g on means that it has been feeding. Just keep a check on that one. They need to feed from their mum, because they need the colostrum which they can only absorb in the first 24 hours and they need to keep stimulating the mother so that her milk continues to flow, but if the kitten continues to only put on 2-5g every day, you might still need to supplement that one, or to concentrate of getting her/him to suckle.

When we had an underweight kitten we used to sit with the queen on our knee on her back or side, put the kitten on the nipple and express the milk into the kitten's mouth as it sucked. Of course not all queens will let you do that, but ours all did - or at least we made them do it! :lol:

Is she being really attentive to the kittens? If she is, it may be that she doesn't want to leave them, even to use the toilet? Also don't forget, she ate the kittens' afterbirths yesterday (which are highly nutritious) and then you say she ate when she came home, so maybe she's not hungry enough to leave her babies?

I presume you haven't got the litter tray near the kitten box or the food near the litter tray?


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

no the littter tray is over the other ide of the room and the food is just outside the nest box i have just given the smallest one (which the vet said is a boy) some milk and he took quite a bit (not sure how much to give them so i let them take wat they want) and just gave the bigger one (girl) some as well and as soon as they went back to mum the both latch on to a nipple lol there very greedy today hehe 

i just hope im doing the right thing  mummy cat is off for a check up tomo eve i hope she eats something before then though xx


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## clair74 (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank god she has found you to look after her.The poor little girl has been through so much but it is obvious from what you have said if she was not with you she would almost certainly be dead by now.
I hope she pulls through all the trauma and the kittens survive too.It is right to let them take what they want although I would not feed them so regularly that they do not suckle as milk is very much supply on demand so if they do not suckle as much mum will produce less milk and then you will be rearing 24/7 which is hard work.
Good luck with her check up and I have my fingers crossed everything works out for them all.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

How are things this morning? I hope the queen has eaten and toileted. Cats can hold on for a day quite easily if they don't want to use the litter tray, lots of kittens at cat shows won't use the litter tray while they're in the show hall and so they are holding it all in for at least 8 hours which is a long time for a young kitten, but it shows that they can do it, but she should have used the litter tray by now.

If I were you I'd weigh the kittens tonight and if the girl is still putting on a good amount of weight (10g-15g or more per day), then I wouldn't be topping her up. The boy _might_ need topping up if he isn't gaining about that much per day, otherwise he will fall too far behind.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

Aw poor cat, good luck with the kittens.


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

weighed the kitten this morning and they had both lost weight  mum is def not doing to well just hanging around now for the vet app she wont walk and she has been sick again, still not eaten or used the litter tray  really worried about her app is at 10 past 5 will let you know how it goes


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Oh dear, I'm so sorry to hear that! I hope the vet can sort her out as something doesn't sound right!

She doesn't sound like she's quite cut out for motherhood - she lost her whole litter last pregnancy, didn't you say??

Looks like you're in for a heavy bout of handrearing. It will be much easier, however, if she still takes an interest in the kittens and can nurse, comfort and clean them. Handrearing from this early stage is very difficult!!


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

right back from the vets and the out come is not good he thinks all the stress of the last prgnancy and the op has bought out something inside her that can not be treated  where she lost alot of blood she dont have wat it takes to reproduce the blood cells, she is very pale and has no enery and now has no energy for the kittens  you can see that she still wants to be with them as she gets very nervous when she i not around them. all i can do for her now is try to get her to eat and drink and keep her warm. the vet gave her some fluids and will do again tomo if need be.

i have my fingers crossed for her but i dont think she will make it through the night, im crying now and i dont normally cry


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

spankingtigger said:


> right back from the vets and the out come is not good he thinks all the stress of the last prgnancy and the op has bought out something inside her that can not be treated  where she lost alot of blood she dont have wat it takes to reproduce the blood cells, she is very pale and has no enery and now has no energy for the kittens  you can see that she still wants to be with them as she gets very nervous when she i not around them. all i can do for her now is try to get her to eat and drink and keep her warm. the vet gave her some fluids and will do again tomo if need be.
> 
> 
> i have my fingers crossed for her but i dont think she will make it through the night, im crying now and i dont normally cry


God that is awful. Im surprised the vet didnt hospitalise her and the kittens. Did he give you a clue what may be up with her??
I really feel for you after all you have been through with her. Im so, so sorry


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## fran2491 (Oct 10, 2008)

spankingtigger said:


> right back from the vets and the out come is not good he thinks all the stress of the last prgnancy and the op has bought out something inside her that can not be treated  where she lost alot of blood she dont have wat it takes to reproduce the blood cells, she is very pale and has no enery and now has no energy for the kittens  you can see that she still wants to be with them as she gets very nervous when she i not around them. all i can do for her now is try to get her to eat and drink and keep her warm. the vet gave her some fluids and will do again tomo if need be.
> 
> i have my fingers crossed for her but i dont think she will make it through the night, im crying now and i dont normally cry


ahh hun i hope she pulls thru thats so sad:grouphug:


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

he said 2 things that she could have but said if she did he wouldnt change wat there doing for her now, i have to keep her warm and try and get her to feed i forced some in her earlier and she didnt spit it out but she needs more


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

I think my mum has kittens at the farm about the same age if you want to try a foster mum kat ?

so sorry about all your going through


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i dont think i would be able to let them go mate
they are feeding off me well now so i just have to get mum through this


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

spankingtigger said:


> i dont think i would be able to let them go mate
> they are feeding off me well now so i just have to get mum through this


What will happen to the kitts when you go to Cuba??
I think Wohics offer is the better option if you have to totally handrear as the kitts will get the care they need and give mum chance to try and recover. Is she still with the kittens? and is she caring for them at all? If not I would try them with the foster cat you could always have them back when they are older


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## pigglywiggly (Jul 19, 2008)

has the vet got her on antibiotics? my vet gave me synulox for my cat when the same thing happened to her and it stimulates the appetitie.

hope she pulls through for you, :notworthy:


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

i will seriously think about juilas offer obviously i want them to survive, but the vet has told me to keep the kittens with mum as it stresses her out when she is away from them, i no she is not looking after them as she can hardly use her back legs to move around,
i have a couple of people that are willing to take the 3 of them when i am away she is still letting them suckle and if i put them in front of her she will groom them.

and yes that is what the vet has been giving her a shot today and a shot after she had the op she has also been given pain killers .

she has now taken some warm water on her own and some warm food paste stuff the vet gave me by syringe so at least she has food inside her.

i am going to stay with her through the night, her breathing is very shape and short but its alot better than wat it was, and she is going back to the vets tomo for some more fluids. 

im doing my best for her


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

Fingers crossed the mum recovers and can manage to rear her kittens


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Oh dear, I'm so very sorry you're having to go through all of this and I'm so upset for that poor cat!

I take it that the food the vet gave you was Hills a/d diet?? If so it is highly nutritious so a small amount gives much more nutrition than normal food and that will help her.

I agree that keeping her with the kittens to try and keep her calm and happy is best for the minute, but I tend to agree with Shell, that if the worse happens, the kittens would be better if they could be fostered by a cat rather than a human, so please think carefully about Julia's offer.

Like I said earlier, handrearing kittens for the beginning is very difficult.

Do keep us informed about how she gets on. Sadly I've got an early start at work tomorrow, so if I've time in the morning I'll check in, but if not I shall spend all day worrying about you and her!


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Aww bless the poor little sweety 

Hope that she stays comfy through the night and can manage to pull through this for her kits


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

just to let you all know she has breath her last breath  

juila i will ring you tomo i cant loose the kitten aswell 

thank you all for your advice and kind words


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

On no Im so sorry...........................words fail me at this moment in time


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Oh no! I'm so very, very sorry. You tried so hard for the short time that you had her, which is more than her previous owner did in her entire lifetime.

And I have to say she didn't deserve that! I would like to go to that woman's house and knock her head against a wall. What a senseless waste of a life.

I know what you mean about the kittens, but especially as you are going away in 3 weeks time it might be better to see if you can get them fostered by Julia's friend. Female cats will accept any babies up to a week or so after kittening as their prey drive vanishes for that short space of time, so much so that they foster rats, squirrels, dogs - all sorts of critters! :lol:


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

Am so sorry hun - R.I.P little one, at least your last few weeks were with someone who loved you for more than your breeding ability  xx


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## leggy (Jan 18, 2007)

Oh thats so so sad. RIP kitty


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

i am so so sorry Kat  thats so sad. I will call mum this morning and just check that she did kitten over the weekend as they thought .

(((hugs)))

RIP little cat


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

thank you mate the kittens will be with me at work this morning untill i go for my luch if she can take them.
i am hoping trev will tell me to go home and take today as holiday i look like poo!!


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

pm me your mobile love and i will text you when i hear from mother........ she lives in ilton by the way ........ and we will see if we can sort something out, may take a while to get hold of her she is always out and about with out her phone but i will keep trying .


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## fran2491 (Oct 10, 2008)

ahh hun im so gutted for you at least you know you gave her the best shot pos :flrt:


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

the cat has 4 6 day old kittens, so fingers crossed everyone


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

wohic said:


> the cat has 4 6 day old kittens, so fingers crossed everyone


A good tip to integrate the kittens is to stimulate the kittens that are with the mum until they wee then rub it over the foster kittens before adding them. The mum will then clean then and accept them as her own


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## Leliel (Mar 1, 2009)

im so so sorry  you did your admirable best which is more than some people would do. xxx well done for what you did do xxx


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## Pipkin28 (Oct 6, 2007)

So sorry to hear your sad news. At least you tried to do as much as possible for her. RIP little one.

Good luck with the kittens, I hope they do you and their mum proud.

As for her previous owner.... what goes around comes around, it may take years but karma will get them in the end.


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## butterfingersbimbo (Jan 26, 2008)

oh thats so sad. big hugs to you.


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

right kittens are with there new oster mum, she had a sniff of them before we left and showed no aggression so fingers crossed she lets them in, i am going to phone them at 8pm and see how there getting on. my only worries is that they are outside  they might get cold as not used to being outside.

fingers crossed though 

thank you all for your kind words xx


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm sure they'll be OK, they've all got each other and their mother to keep them warm and at least it's the height of summer!

Once again I have to commend you for everything that you have done for them and their mother. You deserve a medal, considering the mother wasn't even your cat.

You tried so hard, but it wasn't meant to be. It would be lovely though for you to have them both back home with you once they are weaned!

Well done you!! :notworthy:


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

how old will they have to be for me to have them back?


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Well it is better for kittens to stay with their mother for at least 10-12 weeks because they have more to learn than just how to eat solid food and the longer they stay with their mother the better balanced adult cats they will turn out.

Having said that lots of kittens leave their mother at 8 weeks and manage to grow into well balanced cats, so it's personal choice really.


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## spankingtigger (Oct 16, 2007)

well i want them back as soon as i can it feels so strange not having a cat wanting my attention  my sisters cats are boring and grumpy lol


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