# skunks



## burmman (Oct 30, 2008)

could any1 tell me if theres any skunk breeders in or around colchester or essex??


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Breeding season hasnt officially started yet some females are starting to come into season 

you gonna be looking at kits being avialable later on probs more towards may onwards


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

You may have to travel quite a while, i think there is going to be a list of reccomended breeders on the skunk registry site anyway when its sorted, breeders will vet and make sure there skunks are going to new approved homes, and they arnt to be taken lightly


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

i know keepers in that area.. whether they will become breeders or not is another matter of course

we will have skunks available later this season, delivery available to England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales

thanks

Nerys


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## burmman (Oct 30, 2008)

what colours will you have? how much? and roughly do u know when??


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## truncheon1973 (Oct 12, 2008)

*price?*

ahh id love one.how much do they cost?


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

burmman said:


> what colours will you have? how much? and roughly do u know when??


though dont quote me, Nerys will probably have black and white, choc and white and albino available, with the possibility of other colours. The prices very depending on colours ( and possibly sex?) between £550 - 750 ish. They are more that likely goin to be available from June onwards, though as i say, dont quote me and im sure Nerys will be on to tell you exactly if i have anything wrong


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

ta cat 

as said, starting from about 550 yes, availablity predicted to be from around late May/early June

colours available should be 
Black and White (in classic, chip & swirl)
Albino
Chocolate and White (classic/swirl/chip)

depending on who you are and what your interpretation of colours is.. we should also have champagne/apricot in limited numbers.

we are taking pre-booking at the moment, deposit payable. payment plans available for the balance, although you can pay a deposit and then the full amount on collection if you wish to.

hth

Nerys


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

Nerys said:


> as said, starting from about 550 yes, availablity predicted to be from around late May/early June


as these are slightly dearer than others that i have come across do they have any pedigree information with them at all or history of parents at least? AS i would be interested in getting another to the one i already have reserved but need to be sure they are unrelated.


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

usually i wouldnt imagine you would get a pedigree, but you can sign up to the Ukskunk registry and tey give you as much information as possible, i would say 550 it still quite reasonable if im honest!


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

farmercoope said:


> usually i wouldnt imagine you would get a pedigree, but you can sign up to the Ukskunk registry and tey give you as much information as possible, i would say 550 it still quite reasonable if im honest!


it was the registry that really made me ask - as a registry can only ever be as good as the information that a breeder provides - so the first place for looking for information is off the breeder and supplier as you can only pass on what you have been given initially - and some do put a premium price on them for providing he info in some species ( a practice i think is disgusting -i know one chin breeder who tries to charge £40 for a ped for the animal when everyone else gives them free)


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

davebrum said:


> it was the registry that really made me ask - as a registry can only ever be as good as the information that a breeder provides - so the first place for looking for information is off the breeder and supplier as you can only pass on what you have been given initially - and some do put a premium price on them for providing he info in some species ( a practice i think is disgusting -i know one chin breeder who tries to charge £40 for a ped for the animal when everyone else gives them free)


the registery is a voluntary thing people dont have to use it..............

Alot of skunks shop bought may not have a traceable past................but the registery allows them to register their skunk if wanted and start up information on that skunk from the there 

we havent started the registery as a pedigree its something that we thought may help people who wanted to use it keep a track of ownership of skunks by giving them a registration number its also a form of proof of ownership in a sense too if their skunk is registered 

its not ment as a form of pedigree just to help people keep track of who owns what skunk within the skunk world


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> the registery is a voluntary thing people dont have to use it..............
> 
> Alot of skunks shop bought may not have a traceable past................but the registery allows them to register their skunk if wanted and start up information on that skunk from the there
> 
> ...


to me a registry and pedigree is part of the same thing - knowing more info on your animal nd its history enables better selection of a breeding mate for genotypical compatibility as well as phenotypical.


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## farmercoope (Aug 19, 2008)

hopefully there will be some more light shed on this, but obviously registrys and pedigrees all have to start somewhere, and from starting it now im sure it will grow and then eventually they will know backgrounds on alot of skunks, if people registers theres and there litters etc.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

davebrum said:


> to me a registry and pedigree is part of the same thing - knowing more info on your animal nd its history enables better selection of a breeding mate for genotypical compatibility as well as phenotypical.


 
Look lucy did what some people requested 

im sorry but there are alot of skunks out there that there is no way of tracing the history of.............because they are either..............farmed skunks, imported skunks and shop bought skunks 

All we can work on is what we have an in some cases thats not alot !!!

The best we can do is work on litters born from now an hoping people will register but its not a have to do thing 

So im sorry thats the best your gonna get till the sites been going for a few years an has more litters an skunks registered


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## Lucy_ (Jul 9, 2008)

OOOOOOKKK...

The site has been set up for people to register their skunks, in the hope that in the future there will be a big enough variety of bloodlines for everyone to trace where their skunks came from, who the parents are, grandparents and great grandparents... at the moment, with two of the bigger breeders not being able to keep track of which litter is which, it makes it more difficult to trace back parentage for these skunks... smaller litters that have been born are easier to trace, as there is not as many for the breeders to keep track of.
So, at the moment, it is coming together... however it has only been set up and it is going to take time to get links to each individual... in the years to come it will, hopefully, be very helpful and succesful once more litters are born and more skunks are registered. 

Like emma said, it is not a must for them to be registered, but it is a BIG help if they are 

I think all this made sense lol

Lucy x


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> Look lucy did what some people requested
> 
> im sorry but there are alot of skunks out there that there is no way of tracing the history of.............because they are either..............farmed skunks, imported skunks and shop bought skunks
> 
> ...


Im sorry but you seem to have TOTALLY missed the point with regards to what i have said AND the purpose of a registry. No where have i had a go at lucy about setting it up, in fact i think its a good job that someone is doing it, what i said - and i reiterate here - is that in getting another skunk i will be looking for one with as much information as possible upon it and with information that comes from the BREEDER OR SHIPPING AGENT! I would by preference go for one off a breeder who can at least tell me what colour the parents were even if not more information than that, over one who cannot provide anything - and for the registry to work efficiently and effectively it is far easier if the breeders actually provide that information when they sell or ship there skunks to there new homes than trying to be recreated at a later date. The more sold without any information now the harder it will be for the registry to piece it together in the future.

now if you can show my WHY that annoys you so much feel free to PM me rather than going off on one on a public forum that is going off topic for the thread


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

davebrum said:


> Im sorry but you seem to have TOTALLY missed the point with regards to what i have said AND the purpose of a registry. No where have i had a go at lucy about setting it up, in fact i think its a good job that someone is doing it, what i said - and i reiterate here - is that in getting another skunk i will be looking for one with as much information as possible upon it and with information that comes from the BREEDER OR SHIPPING AGENT! I would by preference go for one off a breeder who can at least tell me what colour the parents were even if not more information than that, over one who cannot provide anything - and for the registry to work efficiently and effectively it is far easier if the breeders actually provide that information when they sell or ship there skunks to there new homes than trying to be recreated at a later date. The more sold without any information now the harder it will be for the registry to piece it together in the future.
> 
> now if you can show my WHY that annoys you so much feel free to PM me rather than going off on one on a public forum that is going off topic for the thread


 
and you missed my point also................most skunks bred so far have been done so by skunk farmers or imported from skunk farms.............these places tbh dont bother with where and which parents the skunks have come from all they are bothered about is getting them sold.................so a history is of no importance to them 

hence why not many people can trace where their skunks are from so your not gauranteed to get anyone for a while that has a good history on their skunk breedings

thats the point im trying to get across................you posted asking about the peds i tried to point out they dont exist as of yet for skunks its in the works


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

dave, if you can tell me where yours came from, and the age it is.. there is a chance i will have an idea where its come from.. so may be able to help a little there.

as to this years litters, yes, i will know the sires.. (one of three unrelated males in one case.. one of 5 unrelated males in another case) 

as to the mothers, well my own skunks, if they breed, of course i will know who has had what. of the 10 (or what will be 11 by then) skunks i have, to the best of my knowledge none are directly related..

our breeders skunks, the mothers are all set up with CCTV in the nest boxes, so actually yes, we will be able to tell which mother had what skunk.. etc etc.. his initial stock of skunks were unrelated to each other, and the group has been added to with additional new bloodline animals subsequently. inbreeding, related'ness and kit traceability is something he and i have been discussing over the last few months and working on.. there is a possibilty that skunks will be microchipped prior to sale to ensure there is no question about which is which.

whilst we are on the subject of breeding and related'ness...

there is a jolly good chance that many pet skunks in both the EU, USA and the UK are all pretty related anyway... the intial numbers of skunks in fur farms in the states (which, incidently, have been going since the 1880's) was not that high a number.. and its thought that many of the original skunks taken into the pet market would have been very closely related as a group. only 11 states in the USA allow skunks as pets, most of them also require a license, and almost all of them forbid the taking of skunks from the wild. this means that the pet skunk stock in the USA is also quite a small nucleous of animals in terms of genetic diversity.

some states also forbid, or used to forbid, the keeping of skunks tha were black and white. this further increases the inbreeding chances, as people have to then breed for colour (and as most reptile breeders know, there is a large element of "line breeding" ((aka inbreeding)) required to bring out the "new" colours

by the time the skunk then gets to the uk.. by whatever means.. you do wonder how genetically diverse a group we actually have over here.

sure.. i have 10(+1) skunks here, who all had different mothers and fathers... and may have had different grandparents too.. but i would not mind betting that if you went further back into the 4th 5th 6th parentstage backwards.. that suddenly there are shared relations between many of the uk skunks.

of mine.. i only know the parentage of two.. Quanah, who was bred by One Stop in nottingham.. and Snuff.. who was bred by [rem]... the other 9.. not a clue.. bar Pacer, who was bred by Seb Miller, although i have no idea what his parents actually are.

mind you. lets look at inbreeding.. and subsequent species survival and fitness...

lets take... Hamsters... from mid 1900's to the 1980's... all pet hamsters were descended from an original mother and 3 babies that were found in the wild. in the 1980's another 15 or so animals were added to the hamster bloodbank.. but even so.. how many hamsters are about these days? and all descended from a group of under 20?? 

so yes. for anyone worried about not being sure what skunk came from what mother, admitidly you might get a skunk thats been dyed or otherwise marked initially, but it should not be a problem to know what the parentage of each are.

anyway, i digress.. dave bung us a pm, will see what i can do to help.

Nerys


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

thanks nerys - shall pm shortly.

Its good to see _someone_ is looking at the pedigree side of it for future usage as well. The chins had the same problem initially as the skunks seem to - most were bred from a very small handful of wild caught specimens - but because they breed faster have populated more - and due to that fact have also thrown up a huge number of genetic problems due to the inbreeding which has occurred. Which is why i am determined to get animals as unrelated as I possibly can within the current pool available.

Line breeding can be a positive thing with careful selection and planning - and may also provide far more clues as to the colour and pattern genetics of skunks which at present still seem to be a bit of mystery to everyone.

Maybe in 5 years time this willno longer be an issueasthreads such as this will help people to understand the importance of good records - but all oak trees from small acorns have to grow. Just have to hope when they are thrown out there they fall on fertile ground.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

davebrum said:


> thanks nerys - shall pm shortly.
> 
> Its good to see _someone_ is looking at the pedigree side of it for future usage as well. The chins had the same problem initially as the skunks seem to - most were bred from a very small handful of wild caught specimens - but because they breed faster have populated more - and due to that fact have also thrown up a huge number of genetic problems due to the inbreeding which has occurred. Which is why i am determined to get animals as unrelated as I possibly can within the current pool available.
> 
> ...


 
Yups hopefully as you say in a few years time we will have a percentage of skunks who have a great history of where they have come from 

I was only trying to say the skunk site was made to help out in this but without people using it then there isnt alot that can be done 

hopefully it will be used and other methods also to keep track of litters and lines in the future


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## davebrum (Feb 12, 2009)

Emmaj said:


> I was only trying to say the skunk site was made to help out in this but without people using it then there isnt alot that can be done


As good as any registry is though, its success or failure still goes back to the point i initially made - the BREEDERS need to keep records and pass that information on with EVERY animal breed - whether as a pet or as a breeding animal for the future.

god forbid it happening in the skunks- but it has occurred in rabbits, rats, chins, dogs and cats - breeding to type and selective focused line breeding increases the proliferation of "line bred clones" by good breeders to increase animals over all quality. This process is then replicated by "home" breeders who do not have the knowledge or information they require to produce a line bred animal with positive qualities avoiding the issues which it ultimately does though up in the first generations. It also crates an atmosphere where people who have little knowledge see inbreeding and line breeding as the same thing - they most definitely are not.

Each animal in a pedigree is important - but the further back they go the less important or effect they have - except in a strongly line bred or inbreed population. For example - mum and Dad represent 50% of any offsprings genetics, and grandparent 25%, any great grandparent only 12.5%, the great great grandparents are 6% each and the 5th generation back only 3%. Crossing animals with a common ancestor at the 12% or less areas is not going to have much significant effect - but if it is replicated constantly over a pedigree and the linebreeding quotient number increases then it will produce traits whch effectively were hidden to come to the surface- and those can be good ones we like - or problems.

time will tell which way it goes with skunks- but people just putting any male to any female with little fore-thought could be setting off a ticking time bomb - only time can tell when it may go off or in what way. At present if a problem such as malocclussion, heart defects or genetic liver damage do occur there is no way of tracking its progress from common ancestors or eradicating it from lines being bred.

Irs obvious at the moment that it is more the pet peopel who are making the effort to over come this - but the main work really needs to be done by the "farmers" churning out multiple litters on to the market with no concern as to how they are used.


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## Emmaj (Dec 3, 2007)

Yes i know but we cant make all breeders join a registry which is a shame 

yes lets hope they keep their own records cos that will help potential buyers of skunks 

But other than making it a law to register animals thats the only hope people have of keeping track of matings an litters and parentage


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