# Just got me DWA! :)



## Emijolteon

So can someone suggest what I start with? I was thinking a caiman as I work with big, rather agressive monitors (except the asian water monitor, he's a big softie) 
So what do you think? I'm really good with snakes too, maybe a vine snake? Just something that's basic as far as DWA reptiles go.


----------



## George_Millett

Just to get this straight In my head. You have managed to set up a 'hot room' to a sufficient standard to pass a Vet inspection and get a Dangerous Wild Animals License and have succeeded in getting that license and now want to know what to stick in it???

If the above is correct surely you have gone about it backwards. Why didn't you work out what you wanted first, then worked out how to set the room out knowing what you wanted?


----------



## I am a scarecrow

Emijolteon said:


> So can someone suggest what I start with? I was thinking a caiman as I work with big, rather agressive monitors (except the asian water monitor, he's a big softie)
> So what do you think? I'm really good with snakes too, maybe a vine snake? Just something that's basic as far as DWA reptiles go.


Just go get yourself a T.rex. They's well 'ard!


----------



## Emijolteon

George_Milllett said:


> Just to get this straight In my head. You have managed to set up a 'hot room' to a sufficient standard to pass a Vet inspection and get a Dangerous Wild Animals License and have succeeded in getting that license and now want to know what to stick in it???
> 
> If the above is correct surely you have gone about it backwards. Why didn't you work out what you wanted first, then worked out how to set the room out knowing what you wanted?


No I'm tying to figure out what I want so I can set up the room, I applied to get a cuvier's dwarf caiman, I'm not sure though. I just need advice on what to get I can easily make changes but I'm deciding on what I want. I won't be buying anything till I design and make the room. It's just a simple question of what do you suggest if not a cuviers dwarf caiman?


----------



## bladeblaster

Emijolteon said:


> No I'm tying to figure out what I want so I can set up the room, I applied to get a cuvier's dwarf caiman, I'm not sure though. I just need advice on what to get I can easily make changes but I'm deciding on what I want. I won't be buying anything till I design and make the room. It's just a simple question of what do you suggest if not a cuviers dwarf caiman?


 
How can you have been issued a DWAL if you don't even have a room ready?


----------



## herp_derp

bladeblaster said:


> How can you have been issued a DWAL if you don't even have a room ready?


I think they missed the word "form" off the end of the thread title :lol2:


----------



## Spuddy

Can anyone smell that? Phwoooooooar!


----------



## Emijolteon

herp_derp said:


> I think they missed the word "form" off the end of the thread title :lol2:


I did, I'm sorry I have a room and all the bits for a caiman tank and I'm filling it out, I've got myself insurance, already payed the £80 for the licence at the stockport council and I just need to decide caiman or what? That's the only bit blank.

And just to add, please don't make fun of me and so on, I don't want a DWA because they are 'hard' or what ever. I'm getting them for the same reasons most others do, because they are beautiful creatures, and although dangerous will be a joy to keep and I have the time and money to put in to care for one. I have the respect for them too. So don't be cruel, everyone started off like me.


----------



## slippery42

Emijolteon said:


> I did, I'm sorry I have a room and all the bits for a caiman tank and I'm filling it out, I've got myself insurance, already payed the £80 for the licence at the stockport council and I just need to decide caiman or what? That's the only bit blank.
> 
> And just to add, please don't make fun of me and so on, I don't want a DWA because they are 'hard' or what ever. I'm getting them for the same reasons most others do, because they are beautiful creatures, and although dangerous will be a joy to keep and I have the time and money to put in to care for one. I have the respect for them too. So don't be cruel, everyone started off like me.


No one is having a go but your post is rather confusing.

You have paid for the licence application and have arranged insurance?

When are you having your inspection which you will need before the actual licence is issued or have we all got this wrong and its all in place.

if you have it all in place great but if not get the inspection bit out of the way before jumping up and down with glee


----------



## bladeblaster

Do you have any DWAL experience?

It sounds like you have a lot of thinking to do before you go much further.


----------



## Emijolteon

slippery42 said:


> No one is having a go but your post is rather confusing.
> 
> You have paid for the licence application and have arranged insurance?
> 
> When are you having your inspection which you will need before the actual licence is issued or have we all got this wrong and its all in place.
> 
> if you have it all in place great but if not get the inspection bit out of the way before jumping up and down with glee



I'm just a little exited I guess, but I need to deside what I'm getting. As soon I do I make the set up, then I can send off my form and get my inspection ect.


----------



## Emijolteon

bladeblaster said:


> Do you have any DWAL experience?
> 
> It sounds like you have a lot of thinking to do before you go much further.


I've had experience with a few rear fanged snakes (vine snakes, false water cobra's mangrove snakes) and caimans (spectacled and musky's) and African dwarf crocs. 
I'm also training in college to be a reptile keeper at a zoo and my area is crocs and most large lizards (monitors). 
I had an idea of a gila monster or beaded lizard but I'm sure I've been told they are endangered?


----------



## bladeblaster

Emijolteon said:


> I've had experience with a few rear fanged snakes (vine snakes, false water cobra's mangrove snakes) and caimans (spectacled and musky's) and African dwarf crocs.
> I'm also training in college to be a reptile keeper at a zoo and my area is crocs and most large lizards (monitors).
> I had an idea of a gila monster or beaded lizard but I'm sure I've been told they are endangered?


You can get them, we have a beaded lizard at Pilbara Reptiles.

You really need to decide if you are going down the Lizard, Crocodilian, or snake route as its really going to make quite a difference to the room requirements.


----------



## Emijolteon

bladeblaster said:


> You can get them, we have a beaded lizard at Pilbara Reptiles.
> 
> You really need to decide if you are going down the Lizard, Crocodilian, or snake route as its really going to make quite a difference to the room requirements.


I'll go down the lizard or crocodilian route then. I didnt know that they have beaded lizards bred if captivity so I'll probably go for one. Do you think you could tell me a bit about them? I've only read about them and have been taught a little about the venom ect.


----------



## bladeblaster

I don't have any experience with them mate, I am more snakes. If you call the shop and ask for Chris he can tell you a bit more about them.


----------



## Emijolteon

bladeblaster said:


> I don't have any experience with them mate, I am more snakes. If you call the shop and ask for Chris he can tell you a bit more about them.


I shall do, thank you for the help.


----------



## ian14

Emijolteon said:


> I'm just a little exited I guess, but I need to deside what I'm getting. As soon I do I make the set up, then I can send off my form and get my inspection ect.


I thought that you had got it already??
I have to ask, but do you actually understand how the DWA licence works? You can't apply for a cover-all licence, then get what you fancy. You have to declare on your application what species you are applying for an exemption licence for. So, if you say 1 cuvier's caiman, then 1 cuviers is all you can legally keep. You can't apply for a cuviers but then go and get a dwarf croc, for example.
Incidentally, vine snakes aren't DWA either. So, if you fancy keeping them, then there is nothing to say you can't.


----------



## eco_tonto

we have both sub species of gila monster for sale :2thumb:


----------



## Emijolteon

ian14 said:


> I thought that you had got it already??
> I have to ask, but do you actually understand how the DWA licence works? You can't apply for a cover-all licence, then get what you fancy. You have to declare on your application what species you are applying for an exemption licence for. So, if you say 1 cuvier's caiman, then 1 cuviers is all you can legally keep. You can't apply for a cuviers but then go and get a dwarf croc, for example.
> Incidentally, vine snakes aren't DWA either. So, if you fancy keeping them, then there is nothing to say you can't.


I have 3 copies of the form one I wrote down cuvier's caiman but I've scalped it, I'm going to apply for a beaded lizard and gila monster. Either one after I do some lengthy research.


----------



## Emijolteon

eco_tonto said:


> we have both sub species of gila monster for sale :2thumb:


Mind telling me a bit about them? I know size ect but like cage requirements, temps ect and how much do you sell them for?  they look like interesting little things and I have thought they were very interesting since I was 10


----------



## SiUK

If you have been issued a license then I am Santa Clause


----------



## Emijolteon

SiUK said:


> If you have been issued a license then I am Santa Clause


That's a bit of a dick thing to say, is it not? Try be less rude, I have feelings too.


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

Emijolteon said:


> That's a bit of a dick thing to say, is it not? Try be less rude, I have feelings too.


Don't worry, people are just very touchy about DWA, It's certainly not something to be undertaken lightly. There is always a risk to life, not only your own but the local community and any emergency workers who may come to your aid should the worst happen. Too many people talk about DWA and applying for the license like it's something completely frivolous and on a whim. People don't want to see people getting hurt by ill informed decisions, because accidents can and do happen, and any silly decisions can be extremely detrimental to the hobby. 

Just out of interest how old are you, and which council do you live in/applied to (some councils are a pain with DWA applications)? And do you own your own home at all, or renting? Have you worked with venomous at all before? Just asking as you say you're in college, so one would assume you're fairly young? Sorry if I seem up tight, I don't mean to be, just curious  I have nothing against people applying for DWA, as long as they REALLY know what they're doing. I guess people get a bit uptight because they worry about the image of DWA keepers - the general public are on a very fine line between viewing DWA as okay or condemning it. Some councils will even inform 'certain people' to cause outrage that there is DWA in their area, and use it as an excuse to revoke licenses. Got to be so, so careful, not only with handling hots but with personal approach and demeanour as well.


----------



## Khaos

Emijolteon said:


> That's a bit of a dick thing to say, is it not? Try be less rude, I have feelings too.


For sure, but so do the established and well-respected keepers and members on the forum. As the dinosaur royalty lady says, people are touchy about DWA as it's both ammo for the anti-exotics crowd and, potentially, something very dangerous.

And for you to have gone from claiming to have a DWA licence, to having only gotten to the point of filling on a form, while asking for details on three wildly different creatures, isn't going to fill people with huge amounts of confidence. 

If you want to build trust and get some sensible, constructive advice to work towards your DWA, I'd suggest the following: 

Let people know your circumstances (age, location, whether you own your home and have the means to provide for DWA creatures and their many needs).

Fill us in on your background in exotic animals. How many have you got, how long have you been keeping, which vets do you use, where have you sourced your pets, have you bred or do you buy, have you had dealings with any established members on here or people in the community? Do you go to any shows or well-known breeders/pet shops? 

Prove these facts with some photos and descriptions, show your setups and animals and people will be much more open and respectful. Getting a DWA licence can be very difficult. But with the help of the right people on here, it'll be much, much easier. 

Best of luck.


----------



## DogMan84

Sorry but your story doesnt add up IMO;
You said you had applied for a cuvier's dwarf caiman,then you ask whats the best animal to get??
You also said you had sorted out your insurance,really? what animal did you sort the insurance out for?
Also you paid the £80 for the licence,Do you have a DWAL or not?


----------



## Genseric

And whilst all that seems a bit long winded, believe me, every single one of us has different experience, and it is a valuable pool to draw upon.. 

If you had actually already got your license, I would be surprised.. but more than that, disappointed in the issuing council. For whilst not in love with the idea, I accept the reasoning behind it, and all I ask is that it is bloody enforced universally through out the UK!

All that said, I'm in the process of getting a new one/renewing my oul one, for a new house/room. We have less problems here than you guys over the water, but still..


----------



## dylsuse

I'm sorry but WTF??? 
Am i right in thinking you want to go down the DWA route? 
In that case you will need to specify the exact type of animal on any application form. 
You will then have to show an inspector that you have provided said animal with an enclosure appropriate for its size.
You will also have to provide evidence of how you will be developing the enclosure to accomodate the growth of said animal.
As for insurance,how can you already have it in place when you don't know what your insuring and what your then covered for by the insurance??
Sorry but none of this rings true to me!?!
Your on very thin ice and should not be surprised by negative comments from other forum members who have spent a lot of time not to mention money on developing this specific area of the hobby.
The last thing the hobby needs at this moment in time is ammunition for activists to then use against us.


----------



## coldestblood

With no named animals, I can't see how you already have insurance? If you do, then you are wasting your money. The insurance will only be of use when you have a valid dwa licence (and, of course, the animal itself).

Insurance is one of the final stages. First thing to do, is decide what you're wanting to keep, and research it to death.

Then you will need to begin adapting a room to house them in. This can be quite costly, as the councils/vets often insist on a double-doored entry, or, as in my case, a windowed fire door, with double locking system. The room must also be escape proof, and inaccessable to the general public. 

You will then need to have the enclosure made (depending on your animal of choice). If you go for a croc, then this will also be pretty costly.

You then need to send off your form, have an inspection booked (some councils take months!). As you can see, this could take a long time, depending your council. 

Your council may also add extra requirements - mine insisted that all my venomous vivs are double-doored.

This is when you should start thinking about insurance.


----------



## Oh How Original

I think your best bet will be to make a new topic with the correct title, people aren't reading all the posts clearly, and you've just got a bit ahead of yourself (not meant as an insult)
I read it all so realise you meant you've got the form through to apply for it, but not actually in place, it's not confusing or anything else, so if people actually read the posts they'd see you just made a mistake in the title.
I agree with Terry though, I don't have a DWA myself, but deciding 100% what animals you want to focus on and work with would really be a better idea before applying for the DWA, it will give you more brownie points with the vet inspecter (or at least I was told it would).
As you said, everyone starts somewhere, and no idea why people feel the need to take the p!ss out of others so much.


----------



## hogboy

Looking at your previous threads, i really don't think you are anywhere near ready for a DWA, Sorry .


----------



## Kinryu

It doesnt add up cos its BS!!!! Someone having a laugh as a hatchling who knows what the DWA community is like. Could even be a Anti trying to get some ammo. Ignore!
:Na_Na_Na_Na::welcomerfuk::Na_Na_Na_Na:


----------



## kato

*MOD Says:*



Kinryu said:


> It doesnt add up cos its BS!!!! Someone having a laugh as a hatchling who knows what the DWA community is like. Could even be a Anti trying to get some ammo. Ignore!
> :Na_Na_Na_Na::welcomerfuk::Na_Na_Na_Na:


Actually, they check out fine. Perhaps things were not worded correctly in the first place.

The OP is after advice, not a scalding.

And as for this paranoia as to the anti's, it has to stop or else they will win. Keep things positive for the Reptile World and they won't have any ammunition. Stick together folks and play nicely.

Simon


----------



## azza23

Emijolteon said:


> I'll go down the lizard or crocodilian route then. I didnt know that they have beaded lizards bred if captivity so I'll probably go for one. Do you think you could tell me a bit about them? I've only read about them and have been taught a little about the venom ect.


Theres a guy on here called TEG who breeds H.horridum and suspectum's.:2thumb: Theres quite a few europeans working with both species so not to hard to get hold of, but can be pricey


----------



## DogMan84

kato said:


> _Things were not worded correctly in the first place. _
> Simon


 If the Op's opening post was "_Things were not worded correctly", that must have been one hell of a "Things were not worded correctly"_ Dwa license application.
: victory:


----------



## kato

DogMan84 said:


> If the Op's opening post was "_Things were not worded correctly", that must have been one hell of a "Things were not worded correctly"_ Dwa license application.
> : victory:


Folk are not all as educated as you are. They probably meant just the paperwork.


----------



## PDR

I had a phone call today from someone was asking about gila monster & beaded lizards..... sounds very much like it was the OP

There isn't any anti venom for these lizards.... 

I was being a little evasive because of possible calls from the press and animal rights groups....


----------



## Oh How Original

Kinryu said:


> It doesnt add up cos its BS!!!! Someone having a laugh as a hatchling who knows what the DWA community is like. Could even be a Anti trying to get some ammo. Ignore!
> :Na_Na_Na_Na::welcomerfuk::Na_Na_Na_Na:


If we judge everyone by their post counts then what the hell are you? : victory:


----------



## azza23

PDR said:


> I had a phone call today from someone was asking about gila monster & beaded lizards..... sounds very much like it was the OP
> 
> There isn't any anti venom for these lizards....
> 
> I was being a little evasive because of possible calls from the press and animal rights groups....


Anti-venom is useless anyway isnt it because ive heard after 10 mins of a bite from either Heloderma the pain alone makes you want to jump in front of a train:lol2:


----------



## azza23

Oh How Original said:


> If we judge everyone by their post counts then what the hell are you? : victory:


:lol2::lol2: it's true mate, some of the most knolegable people on here are not regular users, post count dosnt mean :censor: i mean look at mine, nearly 4,000 and i dont know nutting haaahaaaa


----------



## PDR

And that's what I said over the phone.... probably more deaths due to suicide than the actual bite.


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

And not to mention that your chances of surviving a 'wet' bite in the UK are extremely minimal, especially with a very serious invenomation. Whilst we may have stocks of antivenom in Liverpool and London, if you're not in those cities, the wait to get it sent to you will be extremely vital time ticking away. Not to mention that you'll most likely be the first ever snake bite the hospital you're admitted to has ever seen. The staff probably have never even heard of the species you've been bitten by, let alone know anything about venom and how to treat it. They'll be treating you blind, likely on the advice of experts who won't even be able to see you, instructing them over the phone. Again, precious seconds ticking away by hesitation. This is of course, if the hospital believe you. It's not far fetched for them to think you're a mental, drunk, or have been bitten by a common adder. So, antivenom is a pointless thing to be thinking about with regards to deciding on an animal - It's not a magic bullet that's going to save you!


----------



## Kinryu

kato said:


> Actually, they check out fine. Perhaps things were not worded correctly in the first place.
> 
> The OP is after advice, not a scalding.
> 
> And as for this paranoia as to the anti's, it has to stop or else they will win. Keep things positive for the Reptile World and they won't have any ammunition. Stick together folks and play nicely.
> 
> Simon


Well each to their opinion because your a moderater doesnt mean your right. We have every reason to be paranoid of the Anti's as they will try any angle to get some ammo. Nearly wasn't a Doni show as they talked the council into canceling it then take it to court. It cost BHS £15000. and 'no' even though we won they didnt pay us back court costs. Hence my club has sent up £2000 to BHS and others will to.

Now they know it costs us they can do it everytime. I also have friends who had an unexpected visit from RSPCA as they had been told that the animals were in such bad health that they were diseased and dying. This came from enquiries for sale and getting the address pretending they would be round to purchase.

So its nothing to do with being negative its fact!

My opinion of course. :biteme::halo:


----------



## Kinryu

E


Oh How Original said:


> If we judge everyone by their post counts then what the hell are you? : victory:


The point being, somebody could just join to cause problems. So who the Hell are you!! Take things in the context their meant. Considering all the ops info contridicted itself it is a reasonable asumption.


----------



## slippery42

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> And not to mention that your chances of surviving a 'wet' bite in the UK are extremely minimal, especially with a very serious invenomation.


Well there is an interesting point of view and I would like to konw how you arrived at this statement?

Are you in a position to prove this?

In these days of anti's monitoring everything we do that statement needs to be take with a pinch of salt, unless the person posting such comments can substantiate such a silly claim!


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

slippery42 said:


> Well there is an interesting point of view and I would like to konw how you arrived at this statement?
> 
> Are you in a position to prove this?
> 
> In these days of anti's monitoring everything we do that statement needs to be take with a pinch of salt, unless the person posting such comments can substantiate such a silly claim!


If you are hours away from antivenom for species known to be lethally venomous, being treated by doctors who have never even seen a snake bite before and are likely to need to seek advice on how to treat it, your chances of survival are obviously going to be less than if being treated by a team experienced with snake bite, with antivenom to hand, such as if you were bitten by a Eastern diamondback in Florida for example. 

Anyway, Emergency treatment of a snake bite: Pearls from literature cites fatality rates of up to 40% in some species, even with treatment. 

Either way, my main point was that whether there is an antivenom available for the species really shouldn't matter in decision making. You should be avoiding getting bitten not worrying about antivenoms and then choosing species based on the availability of them, because inexperienced doctors are more likely to make mistakes in your treatment, antivenom or not! 

Besides, the chances of surviving a very serious wet bite anywhere in the world is likely to be slim, if it's from a species with potent venom... 

I'm not against the keeping of venomous, I'm just saying don't rely on the antivenom being there to save you!


----------



## George_Millett

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> If you are hours away from antivenom for species known to be lethally venomous, being treated by doctors who have never even seen a snake bite before and are likely to need to seek advice on how to treat it, your chances of survival are obviously going to be less than if being treated by a team experienced with snake bite, with antivenom to hand, such as if you were bitten by a Eastern diamondback in Florida for example.
> 
> Anyway, Emergency treatment of a snake bite: Pearls from literature cites fatality rates of up to 40% in some species, even with treatment.
> 
> Either way, my main point was that whether there is an antivenom available for the species really shouldn't matter in decision making. You should be avoiding getting bitten not worrying about antivenoms and then choosing species based on the availability of them, because inexperienced doctors are more likely to make mistakes in your treatment, antivenom or not!
> 
> Besides, the chances of surviving a very serious wet bite anywhere in the world is likely to be slim, if it's from a species with potent venom...
> 
> I'm not against the keeping of venomous, I'm just saying don't rely on the antivenom being there to save you!




Nice quote and study, the problem is that it does not stack up with the actual experience of DWA keepers in this country. Not to mention the verifiable fact that in the entire DWA era only a single person has actually died from the bite of a non native species, despite there being a number of people on this forum some of which who have posted on this thread, PDR certainly and I believe Slippery42 has had a couple of unfortunate experiences, people who are not just still alive but in full possession of all their major and minor body parts.

Personally I have read a number of threads were some one has been bitten and their first response is call PDR before calling for an ambulance, who has then contacted the relevant hospital so they are briefed for the unfortunate guest of honour to arrive and if available the anti-venom is already being found ready to get on a helicopter to be sent to the relevant hospital.


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

George_Milllett said:


> Nice quote and study, the problem is that it does not stack up with the actual experience of DWA keepers in this country. Not to mention the verifiable fact that in the entire DWA era only a single person has actually died from the bite of a non native species, despite there being a number of people on this forum some of which who have posted on this thread, PDR certainly and I believe Slippery42 has had a couple of unfortunate experiences, people who are not just still alive but in full possession of all their major and minor body parts.
> 
> Personally I have read a number of threads were some one has been bitten and their first response is call PDR before calling for an ambulance, who has then contacted the relevant hospital so they are briefed for the unfortunate guest of honour to arrive and if available the anti-venom is already being found ready to get on a helicopter to be sent to the relevant hospital.


Fair point.. 

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick (or hook..) but the point I was trying to make was that just because a species has no antivenom doesn't mean it shouldn't be kept, or somebody should be put off keeping it, because just because there is antivenom available doesn't mean you're safe if the extreme happens and you are bitten.


----------



## TEG

I do have both beadeds and gilas for sale if the guy wants to get any info.
however if he is used to working with large varanids he may find them a little uninteresting!
however when they are laying eggs they are wonderful, my 1st female has just laid 13 eggs all good (bless her) and i still have 2 more girls to lay!

to get bitten by any of the heloderma you would have to be very unlucky or very foolish. they do make good captives and are the safer alternative to venomous snakes(they scare the hell out me!!!!!!!):lol2:

anyone new to the dwa scene please listen to all the advice given by the knowledgeable keepers on here and dont rush into anything (it could save your life)


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

TEG said:


> I do have both beadeds and gilas for sale if the guy wants to get any info.
> however if he is used to working with large varanids he may find them a little uninteresting!
> however when they are laying eggs they are wonderful, my 1st female has just laid 13 eggs all good (bless her) and i still have 2 more girls to lay!
> 
> to get bitten by any of the heloderma you would have to be very unlucky or very foolish. they do make good captives and are the safer alternative to venomous snakes(they scare the hell out me!!!!!!!):lol2:
> 
> anyone new to the dwa scene please listen to all the advice given by the knowledgeable keepers on here and dont rush into anything (it could save your life)


Helodermas are gorgeous. A good 'safe' DWA if there ever was one! Beautiful things. I'd certainly rather clean out a beaded or gila enclosure than a black mamba or king cobra :lol2:


----------



## TEG

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> Helodermas are gorgeous. A good 'safe' DWA if there ever was one! Beautiful things. I'd certainly rather clean out a beaded or gila enclosure than a black mamba or king cobra :lol2:


i couldnt agree more all the true "hots " keepers are amazing, if not to mention quite insane:lol2:

stick with the safe option: a nice heloderma or any crocodillian, they are fun too!


----------



## Kinryu

Get some venom defender gloves off snakepro good against bites. Luke Yeoman stuck his hand in a King Cobras mouth to test them and London zoo have them now especially for the monitors. Not having to grab them forcefully has calmed them down and they sit calmly and are content when the keeper feels safe. Some vids on the site.

I know the DWA peeps I have asked wont use them as they cant feel snake when holding maybe for assist feed etc but I thought more for feeding or hooking or for big lizards. Even my little AWD slices my hands I use my MX gloves! I suppose I could trim his nails. :lol2:

I know my vet may use them for the practice and may even add them as a protocol to DWA. My council does seem to go a lot on the vets opinion so if its on their shoulders im sure to them its a good idea for somebody starting out.


----------



## chondro13

Kinryu said:


> Get some venom defender gloves off snakepro good against bites. Luke Yeoman stuck his hand in a King Cobras mouth to test them and London zoo have them now especially for the monitors. Not having to grab them forcefully has calmed them down and they sit calmly and are content when the keeper feels safe. Some vids on the site.
> 
> I know the DWA peeps I have asked wont use them as they cant feel snake when holding maybe for assist feed etc but I thought more for feeding or hooking or for big lizards. Even my little AWD slices my hands I use my MX gloves! I suppose I could trim his nails. :lol2:
> 
> I know my vet may use them for the practice and may even add them as a protocol to DWA. My council does seem to go a lot on the vets opinion so if its on their shoulders im sure to them its a good idea for somebody starting out.


Careful offering advice like "good against bites" - they are puncture *resistant *and certainly not puncture proof! 

I have a pair, that I use only for changing waterbowls or making quick changes to viv furniture if it is safe to do so (e.g. if a plant falls down on the opposite side of the viv to the snake and I dont want to disturb him/her). It is important to note that I keep mainly arboreal vipers that sit still and are relatively calm during the day - thus the gloves are useful as they block out my heat signature and significantly reduce the likelihood of a bite attempt. 

Its frightening how much dexterity you lose when using the gloves - i personally would never use them to handle a snake (with or without hooks!)


----------



## Kinryu

chondro13 said:


> Careful offering advice like "good against bites" - they are puncture *resistant *and certainly not puncture proof!
> 
> I have a pair, that I use only for changing waterbowls or making quick changes to viv furniture if it is safe to do so (e.g. if a plant falls down on the opposite side of the viv to the snake and I dont want to disturb him/her). It is important to note that I keep mainly arboreal vipers that sit still and are relatively calm during the day - thus the gloves are useful as they block out my heat signature and significantly reduce the likelihood of a bite attempt.
> 
> Its frightening how much dexterity you lose when using the gloves - i personally would never use them to handle a snake (with or without hooks!)


Yeh your right should of mentioned no gtee against puncture. But extra protection never a bad thing under the correct circumstances with the sensible user.


----------



## Oh How Original

Kinryu said:


> E
> 
> The point being, somebody could just join to cause problems. So who the Hell are you!! Take things in the context their meant. Considering all the ops info contridicted itself it is a reasonable asumption.


You can't really "say" something in context on a screen.
The way it was said was because someones post count isn't high, they don't know what they are talking about?
I think certain people forget that RFUK is merely a Forum among many other Forums, it's really nothing special, and a number next to your name means absolutely nothing!
Then again I could be wrong, in which case you have no idea what you're on about


----------



## TheProfessor

I don't regularly post in the DWA section as I personally don't own one at current (due to living at my parents still) but there are two points to my post - 

First being, there is no need for such hostility and sarcasm towards people who are new to DWA. Yes there is a tendency I have noticed for people to find it on a whim and believe they are a "big man" and can handle a crocodilian or a venomous snake, however as opposed to the sarcastic comments and making people feel unwelcome is it surely not a lot better to help educate that person and make them see a more plausible way of thinking and helping them understand something which could potentially turn into a live-long hobby which they could become very good at? 
I understand you may get the same posts over and over again, and that it is the same questions and same issues, however I personally would much sooner answer the same questions for different people and ensure that they are better prepared, can look after the animal in question, have the best time for both them and the animal and so I know they are representing both their own animal, themselves and the hobby in a positive light, and this is regardless of whether its avian, DWA, reptiles or exotics. 
I know there are a lot of experienced keepers on here, and I know a lot of them are bright people, however not everyone is blessed with such intelligence but that doesn't mean that they are not or do not have the ability to be brilliant "pet" or animal keepers. 
I know there are worries about anti's but my argument would be even if they were to post on here with a badly worded post or something controversial, then the best way to deal with it is to be critical and possibly suggest that they may not of done it in that manner, and that the best thing to do it research the animal, speak to a vet etc.... this will show them we are knowledgeable and are doing what's best for the animal whilst giving them as little "ammo" as possible. This will also give the advantage for both keeping the anti's away if they were to come here whilst retaining the real animal keepers and helping them. At the end of the day what's a few minutes to write a post or post a link to help keep this hobby alive and in good light. 

Secondly - Emijolteon, your post was slightly confusing however not everyone is brilliant at languages and this isn't an issue. If you answer the questions people have asked such as living situations, age, location they can better help you and your current situation. 

Also the decision for the animal is important as it determines many factors, the DWAL is specific to the animals you wish to keep, also insurance as stated is the final step for the animal in question again. If you have been sold insurance you may have a disclosure that it is only active when you have the animal and you have informed them of what species you are keeping, or possibly depending on where the insurance is from you may of been scammed, as good step after your application has gone through and maybe whilst doing your research could be to ask others which insurance they use and possible experiences with them, not only is it good research but it will help people identify with you and people get to know you on here. 

If you are still unsure being in Manchester there are two places you can go to for information, 
there is somewhere in Stockport (pet warehouse - keeps curivers dwarf caiman) 
or in Manchester (viper and vines - has various DWA) 
Its possible you could go there and ask lots of questions about the enclosures you can see, how they keep them, experiences thoughts, etc...

(sorry to Mods if I am not allowed to post the names of the shops, am slightly unsure whether its allowed, if not I shall remove obviously) and apologies for the long post to everyone else


----------



## mstypical

TheProfessor said:


> I don't regularly post in the DWA section as I personally don't own one at current (due to living at my parents still) but there are two points to my post -
> 
> First being, there is no need for such hostility and sarcasm towards people who are new to DWA. Yes there is a tendency I have noticed for people to find it on a whim and believe they are a "big man" and can handle a crocodilian or a venomous snake, however as opposed to the sarcastic comments and making people feel unwelcome is it surely not a lot better to help educate that person and make them see a more plausible way of thinking and helping them understand something which could potentially turn into a live-long hobby which they could become very good at?
> I understand you may get the same posts over and over again, and that it is the same questions and same issues, however I personally would much sooner answer the same questions for different people and ensure that they are better prepared, can look after the animal in question, have the best time for both them and the animal and so I know they are representing both their own animal, themselves and the hobby in a positive light, and this is regardless of whether its avian, DWA, reptiles or exotics.
> I know there are a lot of experienced keepers on here, and I know a lot of them are bright people, however not everyone is blessed with such intelligence but that doesn't mean that they are not or do not have the ability to be brilliant "pet" or animal keepers.
> I know there are worries about anti's but my argument would be even if they were to post on here with a badly worded post or something controversial, then the best way to deal with it is to be critical and possibly suggest that they may not of done it in that manner, and that the best thing to do it research the animal, speak to a vet etc.... this will show them we are knowledgeable and are doing what's best for the animal whilst giving them as little "ammo" as possible. This will also give the advantage for both keeping the anti's away if they were to come here whilst retaining the real animal keepers and helping them. At the end of the day what's a few minutes to write a post or post a link to help keep this hobby alive and in good light.
> 
> Secondly - Emijolteon, your post was slightly confusing however not everyone is brilliant at languages and this isn't an issue. If you answer the questions people have asked such as living situations, age, location they can better help you and your current situation.
> 
> Also the decision for the animal is important as it determines many factors, the DWAL is specific to the animals you wish to keep, also insurance as stated is the final step for the animal in question again. If you have been sold insurance you may have a disclosure that it is only active when you have the animal and you have informed them of what species you are keeping, or possibly depending on where the insurance is from you may of been scammed, as good step after your application has gone through and maybe whilst doing your research could be to ask others which insurance they use and possible experiences with them, not only is it good research but it will help people identify with you and people get to know you on here.
> 
> If you are still unsure being in Manchester there are two places you can go to for information,
> there is somewhere in Stockport (pet warehouse - keeps curivers dwarf caiman)
> or in Manchester (viper and vines - has various DWA)
> Its possible you could go there and ask lots of questions about the enclosures you can see, how they keep them, experiences thoughts, etc...
> 
> (sorry to Mods if I am not allowed to post the names of the shops, am slightly unsure whether its allowed, if not I shall remove obviously) and apologies for the long post to everyone else


Viper and Vine is good for snakes, not seen any crocs in there for a while, but Manchester Pets and Aquatics has some baby Caimans as well.


----------



## snakekeeper

Emijolteon said:


> I have feelings too.


Get bitten by the wrong animal and you wont have any feelings


----------



## KarlHowells

I'd probably drop the idea of a DWA license till you understand the needs and proper care for the route you choose to take. 

I'm in the same position as yourself, but I'm planning for a few years in advance as I don't think I know anywhere near enough yet, and I think your in the same boat as me, first DWA, this means you've got a lot of room for learning.

I've already spoken to my council and have to draw up a business plan proving my experience, already a stumbling block, and will have to get myself some experience to prove to my council I can care for a Dwarf Caiman. I completely respect the way the UK generally deals with DWA and how tough they can, any old fool could get a DWA else, and that would be fatal, they are DANGEROUS WILD ANIMALS, and will attack/kill if the highest safety issues haven't been adressed.

I'd recommend you having a long hard think about the space you have available...do you have space for an adult caiman? still up to 5ft, most council require double doored rooms, so enclosure will have to be massive to even fit that one criteria. Once you've decided on your animal, then do a few years gaining experience, reading books, speaking to people who have experience in the area. I'm hoping to get my DWA starting 2014 or 2015.

I'd also try and take on the criticism you've come under, as they're only doing it for your/or the animals best interests, so don't get defensive about it.


----------



## Cleggs

Speaking as a new poster/member i have to agree its not a good time to be new and would definatly agree its not very encouraging to post when you feel shut out.the amount off times you post has nothing to do with knowlage, being new to the hobby or being an anti..I'm sure they was watching us pre doncaster.
I can see its what was written that sparked this one off but he did try to make amends only not to be heard.I've been keeping since the 1990s have had a pet shop with a long break have got back into it definatly rusty so joined here and I have 19 ish posts...means nothing apart from being a new member to rfuk


----------



## gmccurdie

Is he gone yet:whistling2:
Have not seen him since page 3 on 20th, think you scared him off.


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

gmccurdie said:


> Is he gone yet:whistling2:
> Have not seen him since page 3 on 20th, think you scared him off.


Perhaps it was a reality check? hehe


----------



## KarlHowells

PrincessStegosaurus said:


> Perhaps it was a reality check? hehe


It's a good thing he did come on here though and get grilled, would of been ALOT worse if he somehow got one, and wasn't ready! got bless RFUK. :lol2:


----------



## PrincessStegosaurus

KarlHowells said:


> It's a good thing he did come on here though and get grilled, would of been ALOT worse if he somehow got one, and wasn't ready! got bless RFUK. :lol2:


Agreed! I know people, especially DWA people can get extremely defensive and sometimes 'uppity' at times around new people, especially if they appear to be strutting the whole bravado or ignorance thing. We just don't want to see people getting hurt, animals getting hurt or mistreated, or the hobby being given a bad name, especially in the current animal rights activism climate! Anybody ready to keep an animal and determined to do it right would answer the questions readily and fully and metaphorically eat their hat if they then decided against it, and respectfully thank those who offered advice anyways.


----------



## chondro13

KarlHowells said:


> It's a good thing he did come on here though and get grilled, would of been ALOT worse if he somehow got one, and wasn't ready! got bless RFUK. :lol2:


I like to think that nobody would be able to get a DWAL if they arent ready. The vet asks a lot of (quite sensible) questions that would be very difficult to answer or explain if you werent 100% prepared. For example, there is a ventilation fan in my hot room - he pointed at it and asked where it went etc, it was at this point that i mentioned i placed an extremely fine insect mesh (stainless steel) behind it incase of a freak black widow spiderling escape... 

You have to be quite paranoid about getting it all right to ensure the vet wont pick holes in your facility :lol2:

I think RFUK can be quite immature about how it handles young or overly enthusiastic people who dont quite think about what they are typing... I worry that putting off these people will further encourage 'underground' and illegal keeping by people who just arent prepared for hots, and who dont feel confident to ask for help...


----------



## KarlHowells

chondro13 said:


> I like to think that nobody would be able to get a DWAL if they arent ready. The vet asks a lot of (quite sensible) questions that would be very difficult to answer or explain if you werent 100% prepared. For example, there is a ventilation fan in my hot room - he pointed at it and asked where it went etc, it was at this point that i mentioned i placed an extremely fine insect mesh (stainless steel) behind it incase of a freak black widow spiderling escape...
> 
> You have to be quite paranoid about getting it all right to ensure the vet wont pick holes in your facility :lol2:
> 
> I think RFUK can be quite immature about how it handles young or overly enthusiastic people who dont quite think about what they are typing... I worry that putting off these people will further encourage 'underground' and illegal keeping by people who just arent prepared for hots, and who dont feel confident to ask for help...


yeah I'm just starting out to plan putting forward everything to my council and already had a few conversations with them, it's tough, but if you can't answer questions on a forum, would you really wanna pay to have a check done, and then have it denied. It's good people do care, not just about the animal but for the sake of the buyer, lets hope they do a bit of research - ALOT more like, then go for it again.


----------



## remzy

Hey guys looking for a mentor in the Essex area really wana caiman and exotic mammals most interest me and large lizards no it rest in snakes wot so ever and would like more experience with everything (maybe inc snake ) can anyone help


----------



## sharpstrain

chondro13 said:


> I like to think that nobody would be able to get a DWAL if they arent ready. The vet asks a lot of (quite sensible) questions that would be very difficult to answer or explain if you werent 100% prepared. For example, there is a ventilation fan in my hot room - he pointed at it and asked where it went etc, it was at this point that i mentioned i placed an extremely fine insect mesh (stainless steel) behind it incase of a freak black widow spiderling escape...
> 
> You have to be quite paranoid about getting it all right to ensure the vet wont pick holes in your facility :lol2:
> 
> I think RFUK can be quite immature about how it handles young or overly enthusiastic people who dont quite think about what they are typing... I worry that putting off these people will further encourage 'underground' and illegal keeping by people who just arent prepared for hots, and who dont feel confident to ask for help...


 

If was going to apply for a DWA I wouldnt dream of posting in here, I would pm some of the people whose posts I had read and trusted not to be nobs. That would of course include you Helen - because you have a positive approach and becuase you are fit:blush:.

Sometimes the posters come accross as though they are actually the people that decide who does or more likely doesnt get a DWA - There is a process and the LA make that decision - as far as I am aware they dont consult with RFUK members to get their opinion of whether some should get a certificate or not. So people on here have no impact on whether or not someone can get a dwa unless it is by positive advice and you cant offer that when people have been driven away from the forum. So in effect the more opinionated you are, the less the impact of your opinion


----------



## Big_Rich

KarlHowells said:


> It's a good thing he did come on here though and get grilled, would of been ALOT worse if he somehow got one, and wasn't ready! got bless RFUK. :lol2:


Or....he'll go and get one anyway but because everyone scared him off he wont get the valuable knowledge that you guy's have..:whistling2:

He's unlikely to listen to a load of people who have just hammered him in public like that (although I do understand why you did it).

Anyway, its not like my opinion matters on things like this but its just my view from the outside looking in.

EDIT: Also just realised this is an old thread lol


----------



## coldestblood

sharpstrain said:


> If was going to apply for a DWA I wouldnt dream of posting in here, I would pm some of the people whose posts I had read and trusted not to be nobs. That would of course include you Helen - because you have a positive approach and becuase you are fit:blush:.
> 
> Sometimes the posters come accross as though they are actually the people that decide who does or more likely doesnt get a DWA - There is a process and the LA make that decision - as far as I am aware they dont consult with RFUK members to get their opinion of whether some should get a certificate or not. So people on here have no impact on whether or not someone can get a dwa unless it is by positive advice and you cant offer that when people have been driven away from the forum. So in effect the more opinionated you are, the less the impact of your opinion





Big_Rich said:


> Or....he'll go and get one anyway but because everyone scared him off he wont get the valuable knowledge that you guy's have..:whistling2:
> 
> He's unlikely to listen to a load of people who have just hammered him in public like that (although I do understand why you did it).
> 
> Anyway, its not like my opinion matters on things like this but its just my view from the outside looking in.
> 
> EDIT: Also just realised this is an old thread lol



Until the OP has chosen his desired species, no one will be able to help him. The difference between keeping venomous snakes and crocs is huge. 


I think the main problem the OP has created is this thread. It started as 'I've got my licence, insurance, the money, and the room', to 'I've got my application, but have no idea what animal I'd like to keep'.


One of the reasons people on the dwa section can be a little off, is most likey to do with the sheer amount of people claiming to be getting their licence, yet even years later, they're still no futher on. 


Getting a dwal isn't as simple as that. There are a LOT of things which need to be considered, and depending on where you live, the conditions can be pretty costly, and in some cases, over the top.


When my licence was in the pipe line, I kept it to myself, so as not to be thought of as just another person who's 'getting their dwal'. . . 

What I did, was PM a few people I trust, and assume that my vet and LA would demand ALL of the conditions which they were expected to follow. This way, you'll understand more about the way the dwaa works, and what each council requires.


----------



## Big_Rich

coldestblood said:


> Until the OP has chosen his desired species, no one will be able to help him. The difference between keeping venomous snakes and crocs is huge.
> 
> 
> I think the main problem the OP has created is this thread. It started as 'I've got my licence, insurance, the money, and the room', to 'I've got my application, but have no idea what animal I'd like to keep'.
> 
> 
> One of the reasons people on the dwa section can be a little off, is most likey to do with the sheer amount of people claiming to be getting their licence, yet even years later, they're still no futher on.
> 
> 
> Getting a dwal isn't as simple as that. There are a LOT of things which need to be considered, and depending on where you live, the conditions can be pretty costly, and in some cases, over the top.
> 
> 
> When my licence was in the pipe line, I kept it to myself, so as not to be thought of as just another person who's 'getting their dwal'. . .
> 
> What I did, was PM a few people I trust, and assume that my vet and LA would demand ALL of the conditions which they were expected to follow. This way, you'll understand more about the way the dwaa works, and what each council requires.


I dont dispute the in's and out's of getting a DWA licence...I know nothing about them and tbh have no interest in it BUT would it not be better for him to be here for when he needs good advice (Which I know all of you can give) instead of being scarred off.

As I said before, I understand why people shunned him.

He did seem rather ahead of himself and it could have looked like he was lying through his teeth BUT he would be better on here that not.


----------



## gmccurdie

Don't panic.

He's still here. He's standing over at the virtual bar talking Tegu's with a couple of people.


----------



## jacko255

*Help!!!*

Alright people,

I have just applied for my DWA licence and i'm looking for some suppliers of Vemonous snakes. I know of a few in the uk but want to find out where else i can search. Anyone got any idea's?? Nice one.:cheers:


----------



## DaveWillisHertsARG

Big_Rich said:


> _I dont dispute the in's and out's of getting a DWA licence...I know nothing about them and tbh have no interest in it BUT would it not be better for him to be here for when he needs good advice (Which I know all of you can give) instead of being scarred off._
> 
> _As I said before, I understand why people shunned him._
> 
> _He did seem rather ahead of himself and it could have looked like he was lying through his teeth BUT he would be better on here that not.[/_QUOTE]
> 
> I see the point you are making Rich, and recognise that people's frustrations may have got the better of them. Unfortunately, this a consequence of many such posts over many years making people very very wary - and, yes, probably a bit impatient. If the OP is given the benefit of the doubt, and was not lying (and there is a tradition of people doing this re: DWA) and he is serious about wanting to keep any DWA specimen, it would be nice if he could have responded a bit more clearly (or at all for the last few pages). However, I suspect this is another person who has come on, told a bit of a tall story expecting more anonymity and ignorance in the DWA community. Hope they are not put off getting more advice though.


----------



## coldestblood

Big_Rich said:


> I dont dispute the in's and out's of getting a DWA licence...I know nothing about them and tbh have no interest in it BUT would it not be better for him to be here for when he needs good advice (Which I know all of you can give) instead of being scarred off.
> 
> As I said before, I understand why people shunned him.
> 
> He did seem rather ahead of himself and it could have looked like he was lying through his teeth BUT he would be better on here that not.


It's very difficult to know how serious someone is on an open forum. If dwa keepers were to take every post seriously, this section would be filled with the same repeated questions and answers (and mentoring requests). Most of these are covered in the sticky at the top of this section. If they haven't bothered to read the sticky, then I wouldn't class them as serious. If they have, but haven't understood it, then more research is needed.

The more seriously someone conducts themselves, the more help they will get. Saying you have a licence and insurance, but no animal in mind, makes the thread appear silly, nieve, and a little unbelievable. It also gives the impression the the OP wants a dwa listed animal _because_ it's dwa, and not because they truely interested in the animal. 

If someone is really interested, and have done their research, I for one would be happy to help. The problem, is that almost everyone I've spoke to (about getting a dwal) are not as serious as they believe themselves to be. If they were, they'd be able to answer most of their questions themselves. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## gmccurdie

coldestblood said:


> It's very difficult to know how serious someone is on an open forum. If dwa keepers were to take every post seriously, this section would be filled with the same repeated questions and answers (and mentoring requests). Most of these are covered in the sticky at the top of this section. If they haven't bothered to read the sticky, then I wouldn't class them as serious. If they have, but haven't understood it, then more research is needed.
> 
> The more seriously someone conducts themselves, the more help they will get. Saying you have a licence and insurance, but no animal in mind, makes the thread appear silly, nieve, and a little unbelievable. It also gives the impression the the OP wants a dwa listed animal _because_ it's dwa, and not because they truely interested in the animal.
> 
> If someone is really interested, and have done their research, I for one would be happy to help. The problem, is that almost everyone I've spoke to (about getting a dwal) are not as serious as they believe themselves to be. If they were, they'd be able to answer most of their questions themselves.
> 
> Just my opinion.


I think this goes for many questions on the forum. You are constantly asking yourself has the OP done any research *at all* or do they just want someone to tell them everything.


----------



## DaveWillisHertsARG

*Yep*

_It also gives the impression the the OP wants a dwa listed animal because it's dwa, and not because they truely interested in the animal. 

If someone is really interested, and have done their research, I for one would be happy to help. The problem, is that almost everyone I've spoke to (about getting a dwal) are not as serious as they believe themselves to be. If they were, they'd be able to answer most of their questions themselves. 
_
Absolutely. Personally, I'm not interested in keeping "venomous" or "DWA" animals, just certain species which I cannot keep without it. It is not their dangerousness which makes them appealing. It seems that the same newcomers are also the ones most fascinated with handling and hookwork, which is, frankly, an important but small part of the keeping.


----------



## chondro13

sharpstrain said:


> If was going to apply for a DWA I wouldnt dream of posting in here, I would pm some of the people whose posts I had read and trusted not to be nobs. That would of course include you Helen - because you have a positive approach and becuase you are fit:blush:.
> 
> Sometimes the posters come accross as though they are actually the people that decide who does or more likely doesnt get a DWA - There is a process and the LA make that decision - as far as I am aware they dont consult with RFUK members to get their opinion of whether some should get a certificate or not. So people on here have no impact on whether or not someone can get a dwa unless it is by positive advice and you cant offer that when people have been driven away from the forum. *So in effect the more opinionated you are, the less the impact of your opinion*


:lol2:

This is quite possibly the best post of the year... 


Also... me? Positive attitude? .... whatever your smoking, you best share! :whistling2:


----------



## sharpstrain

chondro13 said:


> :lol2:
> 
> This is quite possibly the best post of the year...
> 
> 
> Also... me? Positive attitude? .... whatever your smoking, you best share! :whistling2:


Just flirting:whistling2:


----------



## Kinryu

Big_Rich said:


> I dont dispute the in's and out's of getting a DWA licence...I know nothing about them and tbh have no interest in it BUT would it not be better for him to be here for when he needs good advice (Which I know all of you can give) instead of being scarred off.
> 
> As I said before, I understand why people shunned him.
> 
> He did seem rather ahead of himself and it could have looked like he was lying through his teeth BUT he would be better on here that not.


I got nothing from these forums I researched everything myself got a list from Council and vet on protocols and then went beyond those protocols. I researched venom, effects, action if bitten, venom supplies and experts. I then researched snakes I would like but would be sensible to keep as a new starter (ie small, good temperament, no elapids etc) and finaly through a rep club asked a DWA keeper if he could give me advise and be my back up and show me handling. I spent over £600 on fees and converting a room, tank, snakes and accessories.

The insurance is ongoing and after all that your council/vet will limit you to a small quantity of snakes at first. So all that money and I can only keep up to 5 venomous snakes, so you really need the passion considering the costs.

But my main point is I told limited people and its still the case as theres so much negativity etc and I used my common sense to prepare and get a DWA. My vet judged me as a person who would be responsible or it would of stopped there. They commented on how organised and clean all my other vivs were and the lack of smell of which they often had noticed with other keepers. They will take in everything they see to judge you as a person.

I dont think its 'hard' to get a DWA if you understand all the responsibilitys and are mature enough to understand the risks. My biggest fear is somebody else being bitten by my snakes, I could never deal with a fatality due to my hobby. Thats the most important thing to keep in mind. 

Its the same with anything in life if you put the effort in and really want it you may just succeed. I think some people fool themselves when they think you just apply for some paperwork, answer a few questions and stick a sign on the door. Its very much about the individual and thats something I never see mentioned in advising on DWAL. If the council or vet don't like you then its over.


----------



## Kinryu

chondro13 said:


> :lol2:
> 
> This is quite possibly the best post of the year...
> 
> 
> Also... me? Positive attitude? .... whatever your smoking, you best share! :whistling2:


You may be positive, but wheres the responsibility....smokin!! :gasp: :Na_Na_Na_Na: ha ha


----------



## Kinryu

jacko255 said:


> Alright people,
> 
> I have just applied for my DWA licence and i'm looking for some suppliers of Vemonous snakes. I know of a few in the uk but want to find out where else i can search. Anyone got any idea's?? Nice one.:cheers:


Having applied you obviously have a DWA mentor so they will have all the answers im sure.


----------



## chondro13

Kinryu said:


> You may be positive, but wheres the responsibility....smokin!! :gasp: :Na_Na_Na_Na: ha ha


:lol2: I think its very important to keep DWA separate from any other 'hobbys' one may have - im no smoker in reality, but i do enjoy a beer or two from time to time. 

If anyone is round for drinks its an absolutely rule within the house that NOBODY is to go into the hot room with ANY alcohol in their body - the thought makes me shudder every time i think about it... how easy would it be to check the snakes after a beer, spot a poop and just decide to clean it quickly... any delayed reaction in this instance could mean losing a limb or worse!



Kinryu said:


> Having applied you obviously have a DWA mentor so they will have all the answers im sure.


I didn't have a mentor... : victory:


----------



## slippery42

Kinryu said:


> Having applied you obviously have a DWA mentor so they will have all the answers im sure.


Ah that horrible name again........mentor!


----------



## DaveWillisHertsARG

*"mentor"*



slippery42 said:


> Ah that horrible name again........mentor!


What?! I thought you'd be "mentoring" me in all things a_mmodytes_? You mean people have to go from first principles, apply common sense and learn for themselves?! Surely that requires taking responsibility and recognising that these are dangerous reptiles adapted to rapidly subduing prey rather than status symbols and toys?:gasp:

Quite so Graeme.


----------



## HampshireVipers

I don't see what the issue is with using the word 'mentor'.

It's plain and simple - just means to train or advise someone within a particular area, and in this instance it's with regards to the keeping of venomous snakes.

At the end of the day that's exactly what the person helping you is doing, so 'mentor' is rather fitting.


----------



## DaveWillisHertsARG

HampshireVipers said:


> I don't see what the issue is with using the word 'mentor'.
> 
> It's plain and simple - just means to train or advise someone within a particular area, and in this instance it's with regards to the keeping of venomous snakes.
> 
> At the end of the day that's exactly what the person helping you is doing, so 'mentor' is rather fitting.


Sure, but it does imply a responsibility and the transmission of a "school" of keeping from student to teacher, if you like. I understand that people are very uncomfortable with it.


----------



## Naturally Wild

HampshireVipers said:


> I don't see what the issue is with using the word 'mentor'.
> 
> It's plain and simple - just means to train or advise someone within a particular area, and in this instance it's with regards to the keeping of venomous snakes.
> 
> At the end of the day that's exactly what the person helping you is doing, so 'mentor' is rather fitting.


The problem I have is this idea that has been doing the rounds that you need a "mentor" in order to gain a DWA licence.

Its just personal thing as I get asked to mentor people and tell them no but I can offer training which I believe to be a different concept.


----------



## mattykyuss

*re*

this thread is class ,i used to walk my mates dog ,and i had a slow worm ,think i might have my dwa now ,did not know it was this simple ,my old gran has a old pond in the garden ,so bring on the caimen ,sorted ,and ive just found a old shoe box ,so it looks pretty dark in there ,going to see if i can find gabboon or gibbon to go in it ,not real fussed ,both make funny noises and i like this ,just thought aswell ,i started making my own viv out of old coke cans ,my mate said when i put my new spiitting cobra in there ,i will be able to hear it spit before i open the lid ,this way i will know for sure he is empty ,so only a dry bite ,does anybody know if i should get a male or female panther ,its only to pull me along on my skateboard ,and i realy would like to know what one has a better stamina ? thanks


----------



## gmccurdie

mattykyuss said:


> this thread is class ,i used to walk my mates dog ,and i had a slow worm ,think i might have my dwa now ,did not know it was this simple ,my old gran has a old pond in the garden ,so bring on the caimen ,sorted ,and ive just found a old shoe box ,so it looks pretty dark in there ,going to see if i can find gabboon or gibbon to go in it ,not real fussed ,both make funny noises and i like this ,just thought aswell ,i started making my own viv out of old coke cans ,my mate said when i put my new spiitting cobra in there ,i will be able to hear it spit before i open the lid ,this way i will know for sure he is empty ,so only a dry bite ,does anybody know if i should get a male or female panther ,its only to pull me along on my skateboard ,and i realy would like to know what one has a better stamina ? thanks


You need this book first


----------

