# RSPCA seize exotic animals



## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

BBC News - Exotic animals seized from Tropical Inc in RSPCA raid 

Anyone know anything about this?


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## Shellsfeathers&fur (Jan 18, 2009)

There is (quite) a bit over in this Section:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/other-pets-exotics/924625-rspca-raid-exotics-keeper.html


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## Jazzy B Bunny (Jun 21, 2007)

Odd, just googled them and they seem like a good company.


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## Sirvincent (Jul 16, 2008)

as I said in the other thread, this is the worcester local news link - Exotic animals seized in raid (From Worcester News)


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## Loderuna (Mar 9, 2010)

Didn't see that. Obviously. :whistling2:


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## Stickytoes (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't understand the RSPCA.... Half the time they just leave exotics because they're "not equipped to deal with them". So what are they going to do? Put them down?
Sorry but they only seem to bother when there's something in it for them, i.e., in this case, publicity. 

But maybe that company was terrible and the animals did indeed need rescuing. In that case, good!


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## julieszoo (Dec 22, 2012)

OT - but Loderuna I have just noticed a pionus in your signature, would love to see a pic, have made a pionus thread in the avian section


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## Beardy Boy97 (Dec 13, 2011)

It says that the animals have been rehomed in other specialist centres and other specialist keepers. I think the company was quite good they had been on the Alan Titchmarsh show a few times


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

The RSPCA have NO authority to seize any animal!

In fact, employees of the RSPCA have exactly the same rights as any member of the public - yet some Police Forces mistakenly think that RSPCA employers have the same authority as Police officers!

Employees of the RSPCA have been known to obtain Search Warrants from Magiistrates - but any such Search Warrant is invalid!

The RSPCA have a Criminal record - R v RSPCA (1984) - Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice, and two breaches of DWA! Quite unique both as a charity and 'prosecuting authority'.

Anyone experiencing problems with the RSPCA should contact Chris Newman and SHG for advice.

Please sign the following petition requesting an investigation into the RSPCA

https://submissions.epetitions.direc...titions/43807N


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

They weren't rehomed :bash: they were 'taken' (not that theres been anything to say they were officially seized) due to the animals being put into temporary accommodation whilst there was building work going on. Due to the whether this went on for longer than expected and the conditions were deemed unsuitable for the animals :2thumb: they havn't been removed permanently by the sounds of it and the statement given by the owner sounds like he was aware the conditions were less than perfect.


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Unfortunately the RSPCA are NOT competent to decide if any Exotic (non-domestic) animals are kept properly - in fact they are, as a general rule of thumb, completely incompetent, as are many of the Veterinary. Surgeons used by the RSPCA.

Once the RSPCA get their hands on any animal it is as good as dead - their track record and that of their adherents is proof of that. The few that survive are rarely returned to their owners - think Squirrel Monkeys! RSPCA and Monkey World Ltd used every dirty trick possible to retain the animals, ignoring the Court until the senior DEFRA vet personally intervened!

Under The Animal Welfare Act the Charity have some powers - but I would still suggest contacting Chris Newman and SHG. Clive Rees is also a very good solicitor willing to act against the Animal Al-Queda!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> Unfortunately the RSPCA are NOT competent to decide if any Exotic (non-domestic) animals are kept properly - in fact they are, as a general rule of thumb, completely incompetent, as are many of the Veterinary. Surgeons used by the RSPCA.
> 
> *Once the RSPCA get their hands on any animal it is as good as dead* - their track record and that of their adherents is proof of that. The few that survive are rarely returned to their owners - think Squirrel Monkeys! RSPCA and Monkey World Ltd used every dirty trick possible to retain the animals, ignoring the Court until the senior DEFRA vet personally intervened!
> 
> Under The Animal Welfare Act the Charity have some powers - but I would still suggest contacting Chris Newman and SHG. Clive Rees is also a very good solicitor willing to act against the Animal Al-Queda!


:roll: yes, so the hundreds of thousands of animals that passed through the doors of the center I used to work at were imaginary were they? being 'ex RSPCA' are you saying I have no idea how to judge if my exotic animals are kept correctly? I don't know who you are but clearly you need to step foot inside a shelter or two.

Nobody, not even Chris Newman knows whats gone on in this case so how about like everyone else you sit and wait to see what happens eh? The amount of libel on this forum alone on the RSPCA would make good reading should anyone choose to challenge it. I'd also be interested to know where the RSPCA stand on the forums 'naming and shaming' policy?


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## Stickytoes (Aug 9, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> Unfortunately the RSPCA are NOT competent to decide if any Exotic (non-domestic) animals are kept properly - in fact they are, as a general rule of thumb, completely incompetent, as are many of the Veterinary. Surgeons used by the RSPCA.
> 
> Once the RSPCA get their hands on any animal it is as good as dead - their track record and that of their adherents is proof of that. The few that survive are rarely returned to their owners - think Squirrel Monkeys! RSPCA and Monkey World Ltd used every dirty trick possible to retain the animals, ignoring the Court until the senior DEFRA vet personally intervened!
> 
> Under The Animal Welfare Act the Charity have some powers - but I would still suggest contacting Chris Newman and SHG. Clive Rees is also a very good solicitor willing to act against the Animal Al-Queda!


I agree with you about the RSPCA, however Monkey World are pretty good aren't they? They seem to look after their primates well, and the enclosures are amazing. I totally understand them wanting to take primates out of the pet trade, most people do not understand how much care, attention, and enrichment they need (no offence to anyone who owns primates on here, i've seen some amazing enclosures), so surely thats ok?


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## iSTAT (Aug 28, 2012)

Looks to me like RSPCA are throwing there weight around a little bit here.


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## sam gamgee (Apr 8, 2009)

But, hey, none of you know, do you? Me niether so wait and see outcome.:lol2:

Dave.


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## duffey1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Stickytoes

Firstly there are two Monkey Worlds!

Monkeyworld (previously Woolly Monkey Sanctuary) - Cornwall was started by the father of John Williams the classical guitarist - and was a genuine sanctuary until the owner died.

Monkeyworld LIIMITED. - Dorset - was set up by an American - the original funding is rumoured to be different from the 'official' version (arrest warrants and destroying lab animals feature strongly!). The name was chosen, quite shamelessly, to 'poach' the reputation of the original!

The MBE of the founder (why was an American given an MBE) was for 'services to Customs & Excise - linked with an ex-Customs Officer (once head of the CITES team and responsible for the largest 'legalised' theft by means of Customs seizures of Birds, reptiles and animals. Stock was seized on the flimsiest of grounds and passed to client Zoos) and the ex-curator of a (now closed) bird gardens (a recipient of many seized birds!)

In the Squirrel Monkey case, Monkeyworld Limited held the pair and 1 young Squirrel Monkey (one young animal was 'lost') and used refused to return them when the RSPCA lost the case and used every dirty trick possible to keep them. Only the intervention of DEFRA senior Veterinary Surgeon (witnessed by a friend) forced Monkeyworld to return the monkeys to their rightful owner.

Perhaps my view is biased because I knew the founder of Monkeyworld - Cornwall - and his sister - but also have had access to enough data to make me question the motives and actions of both Monkeyworlds! They both consider that they, and only them, are competent to keep and breed primates and push for a ban on the private sector keeping and breeding primates. In short, they are the ENEMY!

Drayvan

How many of the :hundreds and thousand animals survived the tender care of the RSPCA? To quote Tim Wass - ex-head of the Inspectorate -" the RSPCA do not euthanase animals, they kill them".
Suggest that you look up the definition of 'libel'

One good thing about these threads, they bring out the 'closet antis'!


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## Drayvan (Jul 7, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> Drayvan
> 
> How many of the :hundreds and thousand animals survived the tender care of the RSPCA? To quote Tim Wass - ex-head of the Inspectorate -" the RSPCA do not euthanase animals, they kill them".
> Suggest that you look up the definition of 'libel'
> ...


Plenty actually....my chipmunk upstairs was with them months before I took him on....my dads cats, many friends have adopted from them and I've witnessed loads go to new homes. Infact during my time there I would hazard a guesstimate at only 10% being put to sleep. Each one with a damn good reason. I don't know where you get your information from but only a very small minority are euthenised, and even then for good reason, as said.

Libel... 'A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.' << care to back up the 'information' you're spouting? 

If I was anti in any way shape or form do you really think I would keep the animals that I do? I suggest you think long and hard before throwing personal accusations around, because you might not like what you get back.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Think the newbie's wanting to make his presence felt? :whistling2:


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## carpetjohn (Nov 17, 2008)

*rspca*

according to our local paper the police got a court warrant to enter the premises,with rspca,five other specialists and a zoo vet,taken were coatis,genets,armadillo,owls,parrots,snapping turtles,tortoises,snakes,porcupine,harris harks,meerkats and cotton -top tamarins.so not just the rspca going over top again .infact a mini zoo.they are being housed at specialist centres while an investigation is carried out.


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## Benny864 (Jul 30, 2009)

Hello,
i never ever reply to any of these posts and have often seen my case being discussed but feel that i need to stick up for all those people that helped me win my case. I know as i was involved in a case brought about by the RSPCA and originally started by Monkeyworld exactly what the RSPCA are all about, i went through 3 years of hell with them both. They are excatly how Chris Newman describes them, a charity with so much money that no member of the public could possibly take them on due to the large amounts of cash they can throw at any case they decide should be brought about before a court, thank god i had a district judge who could see straight through them.
Also Monkey world being a ltd company reaping in the rewards of the paying public looking at all the seized rescued monkeys including mine for 2 years that were pulling in the crowds!!
I had a pair of Capuchins, not Squirrel monkeys, taken from me, they had a baby in the care of Monkey world that completley disapppered off the face of the earth, after asking what had happened to it i was told that it had died, i asked for the post mortem and the body but was told that no records or deaths were recorded!!
My animals were continually put into quarantine so that i would never have them back but once i involved the chief veteninary officer telling him that Monkeyworld were abusing their quarantine facilities my animals were released within 48 hrs. Thanks to people like Chris Newman my animals were reunited with myself. I know Stephen Rowlands and know what he is going through and hope that every thing goes ok for him and his company, i know he is a very capable exotic keeper and has probably made a small mistake that has been jumped upon by the RSPCA. 
I wont reply to any questions regarding my post and will probably not post again but needed every body to know how under handed the RSPCA are!!
Just for the record i was offered £5000 from the RSPCA for Monkeyworld to keep my pair of Capuchins when they knew they had to give my animals back, obviously i decllned but after talking to numerous people i have been told that this is very unusual for the RSPCA to offer to buy animals off somebody, just goes to show what they spend their hard earned donations on!! I have kept the original letter to prove this!!
Thank you for reading and hope this shows how under handed the RSPCA are, i will not respond to this post. Good luck to Tropical Inc i hope that it all works out for them, but please everybody else dont be fooled by the RSPCA.


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## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

duffey1 said:


> Unfortunately the RSPCA are NOT competent to decide if any Exotic (non-domestic) animals are kept properly - in fact they are, as a general rule of thumb, completely incompetent, as are many of the Veterinary. Surgeons used by the RSPCA.
> 
> Once the RSPCA get their hands on any animal it is as good as dead - their track record and that of their adherents is proof of that. The few that survive are rarely returned to their owners - think Squirrel Monkeys! RSPCA and Monkey World Ltd used every dirty trick possible to retain the animals, ignoring the Court until the senior DEFRA vet personally intervened!
> 
> Under The Animal Welfare Act the Charity have some powers - but I would still suggest contacting Chris Newman and SHG. Clive Rees is also a very good solicitor willing to act against the Animal Al-Queda!


The last paragraph is wrong - the AWA gives absolutely NO powers to the RSPCA, if anything it removes any power they may think they have! The AWA creates Animal Welfare Inspectors, who are given the same powers of entry, search and seizure as the police - but it specifically states that the. RSPCA are NOT animal welfare inspectors under this Act.


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## Stickytoes (Aug 9, 2010)

duffey1 said:


> Stickytoes
> 
> Firstly there are two Monkey Worlds!
> 
> ...


I had no idea... 


Now I don't know what to think. :?


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Stickytoes said:


> I had no idea...
> 
> 
> Now I don't know what to think. :?


What was the Woolly Monkey Sanctuary biased in Cornwall has renamed its self to Wild Futures, it is a registered charity. I have a lot of time for them although I think they are entirely misguided in much of what they wish to achieve – how making primates extinct in captivity benefits wild populations eludes me?

Monkey World in Dorset is not a charity, although I understand they have formed a charitable arm, but in comparison to the main business which is a private limited company the charity has peanuts. Monkey World is a multy million pound private business, in other words a private collection of primates which people pay to see!


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## Stickytoes (Aug 9, 2010)

Chris Newman said:


> What was the Woolly Monkey Sanctuary biased in Cornwall has renamed its self to Wild Futures, it is a registered charity. I have a lot of time for them although I think they are entirely misguided in much of what they wish to achieve – how making primates extinct in captivity benefits wild populations eludes me?
> 
> Monkey World in Dorset is not a charity, although I understand they have formed a charitable arm, but in comparison to the main business which is a private limited company the charity has peanuts. Monkey World is a multy million pound private business, in other words a private collection of primates which people pay to see!


But hey do alot of conservation work don't they? They have places in Thailand which are releasing gibbons back into the wild etc. Surely that is a good thing? 
Also, a lot of the animals they take in are rescues, many from testing labs etc. I would say that is a good thing also?
Sorry I'm just playing devils advocate here, I do understand your point!


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## Chris Newman (Apr 23, 2007)

Stickytoes said:


> But hey do alot of conservation work don't they? They have places in Thailand which are releasing gibbons back into the wild etc. Surely that is a good thing?
> Also, a lot of the animals they take in are rescues, many from testing labs etc. I would say that is a good thing also?
> Sorry I'm just playing devils advocate here, I do understand your point!


I can only speak from personal experience, so let me put it this way: a wise man once said to me if you cannot say something constructive about someone then you are better to say nothing, on that biases I have nothing to say about Monkey World…..!!


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## Stickytoes (Aug 9, 2010)

Chris Newman said:


> I can only speak from personal experience, so let me put it this way: a wise man once said to me if you cannot say something constructive about someone then you are better to say nothing, on that biases I have nothing to say about Monkey World…..!!


Touché.....


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## big bertha (May 17, 2011)

Chris Newman said:


> I can only speak from personal experience, so let me put it this way: a wise man once said to me if you cannot say something constructive about someone then you are better to say nothing, on that biases I have nothing to say about Monkey World…..!!


 
Here here:2thumb:


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

This has gone off topic a bit, but so sad to hear about tropical inc, I've seen their shows many times and met the owners and a few staff, all animals looked great and were so tame, you don't get animals that tame if you're not looking after them properly. In all the years I've worked in rescue seized animals have presented as shy, reserved, or occasionally defensive or even aggressive. I honestly can't believe that the animals were seized legitimately. Have Tropical Inc said anything yet?


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## em_40 (Sep 29, 2010)

As some of you may already be aware, the RSPCA visited our developing site yesterday 3rd January 2013 at 6.30am, which unfortunately resulted in some of our rescued animals being removed from the site. 
 
 As we had recently received planning permission to build our new education centre, some of the existing buildings had to be demolished in the process of constructing the new premises. Some of our animals had been moved from their enclosures to temporary indoor enclosures and the RSPCA have deemed some of these temporary enclosures to be unfit. 
 
 We would like to make everyone aware that these enclosures were temporary and it was never our intention to keep animals in them for any prolonged amount of time. The extreme wet weather we have been experiencing which has, however, caused significant problems for us and as a result some animals had been in these enclosures for longer than we had anticipated. 
 
 We wholeheartedly agree that animal welfare is a priority and we will be working with the RSPCA to make sure our temporary enclosures are more suitable for our animals. We will keep you all updated when we can.
 
 We would like to thank everyone for their support.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Devi said:


> you don't get animals that tame if you're not looking after them properly. *That's not strictly true though, is it? This is not meant to cast aspersions in any way, but you only need to look at the likes of that old :censor: Mary Chipperfield to disprove that!*
> 
> I honestly can't believe that the animals were seized legitimately.


I very much doubt the animals were seized _illegitimately!_ What a silly thing to say.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

Mary Chipperfields animals show the classic signs of abused animals. 

Trudy - "Trudy has lost two finger tips on her left hand and the tip of one toe. Mentally she was in an appalling state and was completely motionless, just like a rag doll. We have seen the same thing in other abused chimps - frightened of everything." Battle to give tortured chimp Trudy a new life

Rhanee - She displayed significant stereotypic behaviour, bobbing and swaying, undoubtedly mental scars resulting from her time in the circus. Remembering Rhanee


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Exactly! And they were docile enough to perform tricks a few times a day in front of screaming kids! Which goes to show that, if you're a particular kind of monster, you don't have to be nice to animals to tame them as you wrongly claimed.


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## Devi (Jan 9, 2011)

mrcriss said:


> Exactly! And they were docile enough to perform tricks a few times a day in front of screaming kids! Which goes to show that, if you're a particular kind of monster, you don't have to be nice to animals to tame them as you wrongly claimed.


Do you care to tell me how many chipperfield shows you watched? Any person who knew anything about animals would see the stress they were under. The fact elephants were being controlled with bullhooks (spikes on a stick) would have been a clue for the dumbest person.


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## mrcriss (Nov 2, 2010)

Devi said:


> Do you care to tell me how many chipperfield shows you watched? Any person who knew anything about animals would see the stress they were under. The fact elephants were being controlled with bullhooks (spikes on a stick) would have been a clue for the dumbest person.


Look, you said that you can only tame an animal by being nice to it. Time and time again, all over the world, we've known this not to be the case. From old fashioned circuses, to photographers with chimps in spain, to bloody dancing bears in asia! Of course they're under stress, broken if you like.....but nonetheless, they have been tamed and are regularly performing.

Now I'm not suggesting for one second that Tropical Inc does any such thing with their performing animals, I was merely pointing out the holes in your statement.


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## EmmaLock (Nov 10, 2010)

Commenting to follow this thread. Very shocking to think how much the rspca is seemingly 'cracking down' on exotics keepers.


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