# Truly Hybrids?



## MDkingsnake (Feb 9, 2014)

So if you saw my last thread it was that I was researching about possibly breeding corn snakes in maybe 1-2 years though I have also read about inbreeding in popular corn snake morphs due to the small gene pool caused by the creation of some morphs. This then brought me to think about hybridlization of a corn snake with another snake in the ELAPHE genus if I'm correct to increase the genetic diversity displayed in certain corn morphs. Because in all reality corn snakes are just really rat snakes they just had different distribution and I've read about hybridlization happening between these two species happening in the wild where there distribution overlaps. So I want your guys opinions on my idea of breeding maybe a rat snake to a corn snake IN THE FUTURE to try to produce morphs with better genetic dispositions.


----------



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

MDkingsnake said:


> So if you saw my last thread it was that I was researching about possibly breeding corn snakes in maybe 1-2 years though I have also read about inbreeding in popular corn snake morphs due to the small gene pool caused by the creation of some morphs. This then brought me to think about hybridlization of a corn snake with another snake in the ELAPHE genus if I'm correct to increase the genetic diversity displayed in certain corn morphs. Because in all reality corn snakes are just really rat snakes they just had different distribution and I've read about hybridlization happening between these two species happening in the wild where there distribution overlaps. So I want your guys opinions on my idea of breeding maybe a rat snake to a corn snake IN THE FUTURE to try to produce morphs with better genetic dispositions.


Corns are no longer Elaphe, they are now in the Pantherophis genus. While corns are a rat snake species, this doesn't mean you can breed them with any other rat species. For example, Trans Pecos rats, bamboo rats, leopard snakes, are all rat snakes, but represent a further three genera. By your thinking, a red tail boa and a Kenyan sand boa could be bred together because they are both boas!
Corn x American rat pairings have been done for a long time, with no advantage to either species in the long run.


----------



## cavan (Mar 2, 2009)

ian14 said:


> Corns are no longer Elaphe, they are now in the Pantherophis genus. While corns are a rat snake species, this doesn't mean you can breed them with any other rat species. For example, Trans Pecos rats, bamboo rats, leopard snakes, are all rat snakes, but represent a further three genera. By your thinking, a red tail boa and a Kenyan sand boa could be bred together because they are both boas!
> Corn x American rat pairings have been done for a long time, with no advantage to either species in the long run.


Has anyone tried?


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

Yes, it's been done. It doesn't help. It only mucks up the gene pool.

The bubble gum corn snake is derived from black rat x corn snake crosses. The jungle corn is derived from California king snake x corn snake crosses. There are others.

If you want to broaden a morph's gene pool, out breed the snakes to wild caught normals or normals only a few generations from the wild. That is what was done with the original strain of blood red corn snakes.


----------



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

cavan said:


> Has anyone tried?





> Corns are no longer Elaphe, they are now in the Pantherophis genus. While corns are a rat snake species, this doesn't mean you can breed them with any other rat species. For example, Trans Pecos rats, bamboo rats, leopard snakes, are all rat snakes, but represent a further three genera. By your thinking, a red tail boa and a Kenyan sand boa could be bred together because they are both boas!
> *Corn x American rat pairings have been done for a long time*, with no advantage to either species in the long run.


Yes, plenty of times, hence the above!
There are also corn x bull, corn x gopher, corn x pine, corn x sinaloan milk, the list goes on. Not forgetting creamsicle corns (amel corn x amel great plains rat).


----------



## cavan (Mar 2, 2009)

ian14 said:


> Yes, plenty of times, hence the above!
> There are also corn x bull, corn x gopher, corn x pine, corn x sinaloan milk, the list goes on. Not forgetting creamsicle corns (amel corn x amel great plains rat).


I meant Kenyan sand boa with a red tail


----------



## studley (Oct 3, 2010)

*hybrids*

Don't forget the ultra gene in corns which came from the grey rat, plus the scaleless corn was created using scaleless texas rats.

If you go on the shop classifieds you can see coast to coast have a whole load of different weird and not so wonderful hybrids.
One word, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MDkingsnake (Feb 9, 2014)

I was just curious about hybrids......I see a lot of people against them. I honestly think there fine because it's just another for of artificial selection so why would it be that bad as long as they are identified and sold as their specified crosses and not mistakenly sold for a pure non hybrid animal.


----------



## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

MDkingsnake said:


> I was just curious about hybrids......I see a lot of people against them. I honestly think there fine because it's just another for of artificial selection so why would it be that bad as long as they are identified and sold as their specified crosses and not mistakenly sold for a pure non hybrid animal.


I would have no problem with them, too, AS LONG AS THEY ARE IDENTIFIED AND SOLD AS THE SPECIFIED CROSSES. Sooner or later, through ignorance or dishonesty, some get sold as pure. That's why I am down on them.


----------



## MDkingsnake (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree with hybridlization comes great responsibility.


----------



## ian14 (Jan 2, 2008)

cavan said:


> I meant Kenyan sand boa with a red tail


No. It hasn't. Same family, hugely different genera. Mind you, it would be one hell of a cross! A semi arboreal burrowing snake that thrives in humid forests but needs a dry sandy environment to burrow in!!


----------



## cavan (Mar 2, 2009)

ian14 said:


> No. It hasn't. Same family, hugely different genera. Mind you, it would be one hell of a cross! A semi arboreal burrowing snake that thrives in humid forests but needs a dry sandy environment to burrow in!!


I'm not I pretend I know why things are placed in genera but I pythons from different genera have been hybridized before as have boas


----------

