# dont breed and buy whilst others die.



## Caoimhe-Blyss (Sep 5, 2010)

After seeing so many breeding threads I just wanted to say this. Many people will probably jump on me but its a topic I am very passionate about. There are thousands of dogs and cats in the world all looking for homes. Many with no fault of their own. Pounds will keep them alive for the maximum of a week before being put to sleep. So before looking at your bitch or dog and thinking I want to breed please reconsider. You could be contributing to this problem. Plus neutering and spaying animals have a lot of health benefits. If you really must have a puppy resist from buying from your local paper or advert as alot of these are bred for money and not benefit of the breed. Go to a propper breeder. Yes they may be a bit more money but it is worth it to stop back yard breeders. Always try local pounds and rescue centres first and if you find yourself being obstructed by the blanket rules try smaller rescues. They are much more flexible. Please check out Dog Rescue Pages - UK dog rescue homes, centres and shelters guide for a list of rescues near you. This website also has a forum for a more detailed pages on said rescue as well as dog chatter where you can talk to people with their own rescue dogs. Thank you for reading


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Caoimhe-Blyss said:


> After seeing so many breeding threads I just wanted to say this. Many people will probably jump on me but its a topic I am very passionate about. There are thousands of dogs and cats in the world all looking for homes. Many with no fault of their own. Pounds will keep them alive for the maximum of a week before being put to sleep. So before looking at your bitch or dog and thinking I want to breed please reconsider. You could be contributing to this problem. Plus neutering and spaying animals have a lot of health benefits. If you really must have a puppy resist from buying from your local paper or advert as alot of these are bred for money and not benefit of the breed. Go to a propper breeder. Yes they may be a bit more money but it is worth it to stop back yard breeders. Always try local pounds and rescue centres first and if you find yourself being obstructed by the blanket rules try smaller rescues. They are much more flexible. Please check out Dog Rescue Pages - UK dog rescue homes, centres and shelters guide for a list of rescues near you. This website also has a forum for a more detailed pages on said rescue as well as dog chatter where you can talk to people with their own rescue dogs. Thank you for reading


I dont agree with not buying from a small time breeder, I am a small time breeder, I only breed when I want to keep a pup back, Mine are working dogs though and you couldn't get a working dog from a rescue as they wont rehome to you


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

I think you put across a very well written post, and I happen to agree with the majority of what you have posted.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

its very idealistic but just aint gunna happen. i dont think theres anything wrong with breeding as long as its good quality animals, its not the breeding you need to stop its the majority of D***heads that buy and get bored, or buy for christmas, thats the main reason dogs get put in pounds, its generally not the breeders fault and unfortunately as much as they try to vet the petential dog owners, its just not possible to ensure everyone you sell to isnt a complete and utter moron.

plus i think its wrong to assume you shouldnt go to people who advertise in the localr paper or who are small time breeders. i actually think its the big time breeders who are driven by money and not the dogs best interests rather than the small time ones. You get bigger breeders who are A holes too. Unfortunately you have to have an element of faith and trust, and a good judge of character when goin to both big and small time breeders


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

I agree. There isn't any need to breed dogs for _any_ reason for a number of years as there are countless animals needing homes.


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## bosshogg (Nov 19, 2006)

Cranwelli said:


> I agree. There isn't any need to breed dogs for _any_ reason for a number of years as there are countless animals needing homes.


so we should let the dogs just die out till theres none left? what about rare breeds? what about working dogs? sniffer dogs? drug dogs? not all dogs in pounds can fill this role!!


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

I dont think we should stop breeding completely, since working dogs and dogs used by the police force / armed forces need to trained from a young age. However I feel there are many dogs which I feel are overbred, for example staffies and all these silly hybrid dogs such as chugs, Puggles and Chorkies. Basically the majority of dogs featured here 

Hybrid Dogs


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

my big dog is from the pound... all 100 pounds of her...


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

HABU said:


> image
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Beautiful , what's her name ?


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

Kovu07 said:


> Beautiful , what's her name ?


hope...

i call her hopers though...


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

What a lovely name


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

how come these threads are always about dogs anyway? whatg about the number of cats/rabbits/reptiles etc that are in rescues? no one seems to curse those breeders. i dont think animal breeding should be stopped, i think it should be certain f*ckwit humans that should stop breeding! sterilise at birth is what i say!:lol2:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Cranwelli said:


> I agree. There isn't any need to breed dogs for _any_ reason for a number of years as there are countless animals needing homes.


 
if thats the case there isnt any need to breed ANY animal for any reason as there are countless numbers of pretty much everything needing homes


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> how come these threads are always about dogs anyway? whatg about the number of cats/rabbits/reptiles etc that are in rescues? no one seems to curse those breeders. i dont think animal breeding should be stopped, i think it should be certain f*ckwit humans that should stop breeding! sterilise at birth is what i say!:lol2:


 the spca isn't exactly overflowing with rabbits...

never any reptiles... cats yes... i plan on going to adopt a cat soon...

thing is purebred dogs are crap at the spca here... i mean they are fine animals and what not but they sterilize them...

if you are into a certain breed of dog then you may want to breed it in the future... pounds tear up all the papers...

but for a good dog or cat then go to the pound...

rabbits?... people here just eat them...

why would anyone dump an expensive retile at the pound when they can sell it for a few bucks anyway?... unless it's half destroyed...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

HABU said:


> the spca isn't exactly overflowing with rabbits...
> 
> never any reptiles... cats yes... i plan on going to adopt a cat soon...
> 
> ...


it might be different there habu, but over here there are hundreds if not more reptile rescues, so yes, people do dump reptiles, and there are lots in need of homes. so its not just dogs in the uk. Granted there arent as many rabbits as dogs and cats in need of homes but again in the uk, there are rescues for them also, so there is still a problem with that. over here people eat rabbit but not domestic ones or at least its very unheard of if they do. theres a roundabout near us, with a huge bush in the middle and every time we pass it there are more and more domestic rabbits living on the roundabout! (i kid you not) people just dump them there.

plus, expensive reptile? some reptiles are expensive but most over here are ten a penny now, people breed a lot of the time because they think they have a lot in one clutch meaning big money, which when the breed becomes popular, at first it is, but then because they produce so many they flood the market and so the price of them drop dramatically. look at beardies, people cant even give them away now theres that many


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> if thats the case there isnt any need to breed ANY animal for any reason as there are countless numbers of pretty much everything needing homes


With the exception of endangered species, I agree with that too. What exactly is the point of breeding more animals when we have surplus?

I might be missing something and be very wrong, but at the moment it seems pointless to me.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

My new girl...











Six years old and has spent most of her life shut in a shed on a farm in Wales being bred from.
Even after nearly three months of being here she is still petrified of everything. Especially men. And still she hasnt left the house or garden, the big wide world is too much for her to cope with.
And why? Because people want cute yellow fluffy retriever pups. And whilst people buy them, dogs like Bonnie will continue to suffer.

And please dont think you need to go to the farm in Wales to buy one of these pups. You dont ever get to see the farm. These dogs are shipped out to puppy shops up north, pet shops, even individual people selling them from there own home pretending there from there own dogs.

I have five rescue dogs and will always continue to have rescue dogs.

Maybe we can't stop breeding. But people seriously need to put more thought into where and who they are getting there dogs from. I dont understand how people can see an add, turn up and buy a pup without knowing anything about the person breeding the dogs or the dogs and there health and welfare. So whilst people continue to buy from back yard breeders dogs will die. And I personally wont be part of that.


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

Hugs Bonnie, that is such a sad story, but unfortunately not an uncommon one


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Cranwelli said:


> With the exception of endangered species, I agree with that too. What exactly is the point of breeding more animals when we have surplus?
> 
> I might be missing something and be very wrong, but at the moment it seems pointless to me.


 
a lot of different subjects seem pointless to different people. i dont see why animals should get killed to feed us when we can survive quite happily on a vegetarian/vegan diet, but your opinion on that may differ. like i said, my opinion on this matter is that in an ideal world there would be no animals in rescues, but its never gunna be like that, and that it should be the people who dump animals who get punished and not neccesarily breeders. The problem is, in the uk at least, i find that people are happy to breed anything with anything for money. and so all different "types" of dogs are appearing. "new breeds" like labradoodles for example, being classified as a breed, to me theyre not, their a cross breed, mongrel, yet at the moment theyre the new in thing and no one else sees them as mongrels. like cats, i cant for the life of me work out, how people let their female cats out wandering, knowin full well theyre entire, then are totally shocked they come home pregnant!!! what i hate more is the whole, my cats pregnant cos i couldnt afford to spay her..... well dont get a cat then or dont let her out until you can afford to..... its people like that who make the problem worse imo, not the small time breeders


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

xXFooFooLaFluffXx said:


> it might be different there habu, but over here there are hundreds if not more reptile rescues, so yes, people do dump reptiles, and there are lots in need of homes. so its not just dogs in the uk. Granted there arent as many rabbits as dogs and cats in need of homes but again in the uk, there are rescues for them also, so there is still a problem with that. over here people eat rabbit but not domestic ones or at least its very unheard of if they do. theres a roundabout near us, with a huge bush in the middle and every time we pass it there are more and more domestic rabbits living on the roundabout! (i kid you not) people just dump them there.
> 
> plus, expensive reptile? some reptiles are expensive but most over here are ten a penny now, people breed a lot of the time because they think they have a lot in one clutch meaning big money, which when the breed becomes popular, at first it is, but then because they produce so many they flood the market and so the price of them drop dramatically. look at beardies, people cant even give them away now theres that many


 
your market is smaller than there...

i can sell a reptile very quickly...


kingsnake.com - the information portal for reptile and amphibian hobbyists.

the pet shop up the street has a sell on ball pythons... $50 bucks a pop...

it's hard to imagine that you can get snakes and lizards at the spca there... here it's almost all dogs and cats...

rarely anything else...

it's impulse buyers that are the problem... not breeders...

people just lose interest or find that there's more to keeping something than they thought...

sad but true...


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

marthaMoo said:


> My new girl...
> 
> image
> 
> ...


this is what i agree with. most people wouldnt buy a car/house/ whatever without knowing its history, so why would they buy a dog without knowin anything about it...... not sayin dogs are like cars but you know what i mean...... 

like i said, i think a lot of the time its the people that buy the animals that need sterilising, and not the actual animals :lol2: i dont have a very high opinion of human life atm can you tell?


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

Just wondering but why would sterilising a person prevent them from buying an animal? (just a small flaw in your plan)


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Kovu07 said:


> Hugs Bonnie, that is such a sad story, but unfortunately not an uncommon one


Nope, I have a house full of dogs with Stories.

And Bonnie was sent here for me to fix as I have a very quiet home, time and love. She wouldnt be able to cope in a normal house at all. But honestly, I don't think I will ever be able to properly fix her, her mental scars are too deep. But I will love her and understand her for the rest of her life, unconditionally.

Also worked in rescue for a few years, so have seen and heard most things.

There are thousands of Bonnies all sat in farms now, from small breeds to large. And they will continue to sit there and rott whilst people buy there puppies, without any thought.
At least now the sick, old and un useable dogs are now given to rescue instead of being culled.

What I would like to see (as no one will ever agree to a breeding ban) All puppies chiped, tattooed and registered to the breeder and the breeder to be made responsible for those pups/dogs for there entire life. Which means taking them back when they are no longer wanted or dumped.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

HABU said:


> your market is smaller than there...
> 
> i can sell a reptile very quickly...
> 
> ...


our version of your spca, is the rspca i think, which in my opinion are crueler and have less knowledge of animals than the dumb asses randomly buyin animals and gettin rid of them. dont get me wrong, i have rehomed animals, but i have usually always known the people i have rehomed to and tried to avoid having animals go to shelters at all costs. 
what i am refering to habu is that in the uk we have a lot of independant rescues (as well as dog homes) sanctuaries etc that have various animals in 

and ive already said i agree its the buyers not the breeders, so thats something we definately agree on. ive bred animals in the past, mainly for the joy of it and the want to improve the quality of animals in circulation, but no matter how much you try and vet all owners, some slip through the net n you find youve been taken in by someone who turn out to be horrible people. this is why i dont breed anything anymore, because i feel i cant trust the people who i sell to. on the other hand you get people who will sell to anyone just to get shot of the animal and to make a fast buck


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

marthaMoo said:


> What I would like to see (as no one will ever agree to a breeding ban) All puppies chiped, tattooed and registered to the breeder and the breeder to be made responsible for those pups/dogs for there entire life. Which means taking them back when they are no longer wanted or dumped.


That sounds like a very sensible plan, I only wish more people felt it was important.


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Kovu07 said:


> Just wondering but why would sterilising a person prevent them from buying an animal? (just a small flaw in your plan)


 
i never said sterilising someone would stop them buyin an animal..... but if if all the f*ckwits and wasters in the world were sterilised then they wouldnt be able to breed and bring more little f*ckwits into the world and the world would on the whole be a better place

most scummy people get together with other scummy people. its like breeding 2 dogs with problems together.... what do you get? offspring that are twice as messed up! and the line continues to just go down hill from there :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've worked in a few petshops...

it'll make you lose your faith in people after you see the kinds of people wanting an animal...

few have a clue... fewer care... even fewer read...

they're hopeless... but you have to stay in business...


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

My apologies but you did say 'it's the people who buy the animals that need sterilising', so that is why I asked since sterilising them wouldn't prevent them from buying them.


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## Cranwelli (Mar 24, 2009)

Kovu07 said:


> My apologies but you did say 'it's the people who buy the animals that need sterilising', so that is why I asked since sterilising them wouldn't prevent them from buying them.


If sterilisation was the punishment it would probably stop them. :whistling2:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

Kovu07 said:


> My apologies but you did say 'it's the people who buy the animals that need sterilising', so that is why I asked since sterilising them wouldn't prevent them from buying them.


it is the people who buy the animals they later disgard that need sterilising........... so they dont breed more little crettins that learn the same disrespectful disregard for animal life as their parents


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

I would like to see all the money going to the RSPCA ads begging for more money to put in their massive bank accounts going instead to advertising about buying a dog/cat/rabbit etc and adverts about caring for a dog/cat/rabbit etc.

It seems the vast majority of the country (world?) think nothing about getting a dog (for example) until the second they decide to do it. They have not thought about it and generally don't realise the correct ways to do it, they genuinely do not know how much they do not know!

We can talk as much as we like amongst places like this but those that know enough to look it up and read about or discuss it are not really the ones that need preaching to.

I am a size 12, I walk two large breeds daily, I do not need to know about diets as I do not need one, however I do know about them as there are so many adverts and programmes on the TV/in papers/magazines etc I can't avoid the knowledge. This is how it should be with info on buying or caring for animals!


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## bbav (Oct 17, 2007)

The thing is many people get turned down by rescues,they don't do themselves any favours!
Just look here http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...697595-dog-rehoming-centres-frickin-joke.html

I know most rescues will turn me down as i only have a small garden and the fence on one side is only 3'.

So i went and brought a dog not a puppy and one that would have probably ended up in a rescue if we didn't buy it.

Lots of people in my position go to get a rescue dog then get turned down and go and buy a puppy.
I'm not saying they should re-home to anyone but they should take each case at face value,not if you tick all of the right boxes.


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## marthaMoo (May 4, 2007)

Kare said:


> I would like to see all the money going to the RSPCA ads begging for more money to put in their massive bank accounts going instead to advertising about buying a dog/cat/rabbit etc and adverts about caring for a dog/cat/rabbit etc.
> 
> It seems the vast majority of the country (world?) think nothing about getting a dog (for example) until the second they decide to do it. They have not thought about it and generally don't realise the correct ways to do it, they genuinely do not know how much they do not know!
> 
> ...


I totally agree : )

Especially since our local RSPCA dont take in hand ins. And the one that was in Torquay shut down years ago and never reopened as promised. Most of the rescues down this way are small self funded rescues who get no where near the donations the RSPCA get. Most pound dogs down this way get shipped out to the rest of the country, where as the RSPCA are bringing dogs down from Liverpool to rehome.



bbav said:


> The thing is many people get turned down by rescues,they don't do themselves any favours!
> Just look here http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...697595-dog-rehoming-centres-frickin-joke.html
> 
> I know most rescues will turn me down as i only have a small garden and the fence on one side is only 3'.
> ...


Yes and if you read my post I said I wouldnt pass a homecheck by a mainstream rescue either. But I have five rescue dogs. And set up and helped to run a well known rescue. 
But I approached the right rescues and put effort into waiting and getting the right dog. I didnt go out and buy one when I got turned down within a couple of days. Hell I even travelled to Southern Ireland for two of my dogs.

If you worked in rescue you would understand all the problems with rehoming, and you would also understand why there are certain rules. Rescues have to deal with so much, including taking in, loving and trying to find the right permenant, loving forever homes for there dogs. Without enough funds, time and people to help.

So maybe if they had the time, money and manpower to get to know you personally you may of got a dog from them.
But with the sheer amount of dogs needing help its just not possible for some.


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## cloggers (Mar 13, 2010)

I think a lot of people would go for rescues if it wasn't so difficult. I think it's easier to go through small private rescues, instead of the large, branch ones that most go to. RSPCA and Dog's trust don't have time to listen to every ones arguments, however smaller ones do.

My friend wanted a springer/cocker spaniel, they went through rescues, and were completely shunned, why? because for one day of the week, his mum wasn't in for 5 hours, she was only gone 2 hours tops for the rest of the week. Yet they were completely ignored because as soon as she said 'five hours' there requests were practically thrown out. They didn't listen to the countless hours they could devote to his exercise, or the amount of money they had to spare no expense on the dog, they were even willing to take a spaniel with a heart condition that would need treatment and medication all its life, saying they had all the money to pay for his treatment. 

So they bought a puppy because it was easier, nearly 2 years later they went through a private rescue and had another dog within the month.

EDIT: That sounded like I was slagging rescues of when I wasn't, I don't agree with getting passed of by a rescuing and launching straight to buy a pup, unless you've been trying for a good while. Take the time to look around and most will let you adopt, if you ask the right questions and the right people.
I'd love to rescue a dog, but with the power behind a GSD, I wanted a pup so I knew where I stood, but we're already looking into adopting or fostering dogs in a year or two.
Lots of 'big' rescues, just don't have the time to 'vet' everyone, so as soon as you say something undesirable, they move onto the next person in the hope of shifting the dogs : victory:


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## xXFooFooLaFluffXx (Aug 4, 2007)

i hate the rspca with a passion, they dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to animals, they employ complete and utter half wit morons....... who should all be sterilised too!!:lol2: sodit, sterilise the world!!! :mf_dribble:


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## zoe6660 (Jun 3, 2007)

i agree im sick of seeing dogs wanting homes all the time i know things are hard for people sometimes but alot of people are breeding for money, i just wish i had my own house again so i can take on a few cats and another dog maybe, but alot of people dont know that the dog trust helps to people who dont know
Dogs Trust - Subsidised Neutering

and 

BUDGET VETS
We offer neutering of dogs at £35 if the person is on any benefits or tax credits.

*Cats Protection offer neutering vouchers for male and female cats which means the owner only pays £2 for a male and £8.99 for a female, their nnumber is 08000 121212.*

Rabbits, guinea pigs and ferrets dont have any charities as such who fund their neutering however the RSPCA do offer cash vouchers to assist with neutering for up to £50 which people can apply for.

I hope this information helps!

Kate Gotobed
Practice Co-ordinator
PA to Directors
Budget Vets Risca
01633 615500
email [email protected]
Budget vets Limited Company Registered in Wales 6459635

Newport:01633 855825 Abertillery:01495 321944 Porth:01443 687388
Blackwood:01495 223297 Risca:01633 615500

I Emailed them asking to find out for people and neutering isnt cheap for the vet side too so i say this is a bargain and even if u dont plan on breeding its worth getting your pet done incase it gets out of your house or garden.

My two dogs are done both under a year old and its the best thing i done and i can go out without worrying about my bitch coming into season and my male dog running off.


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## Tricky&TheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

i went to the dog's trust looking for a young dog, they didn't have any and didn't know of any other rescue places that would have puppies. I insisted on a puppy as we had not long had a baby and wanted something that would grow up with him.

in the end a friend bred a litter of pups and gave us one of his, admittedly she was going to put down because of her cleft lip - so i guess she was a rescue in a way!


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## samurai (Sep 9, 2009)

bosshogg said:


> so we should let the dogs just die out till theres none left? what about rare breeds? what about working dogs? sniffer dogs? drug dogs? not all dogs in pounds can fill this role!!


some rescue dogs become working dogs eg sniffer/security



marthaMoo said:


> My new girl...
> 
> image
> 
> ...


Theres always at least 2 full pages of puppies for sale in my local friday ad each week! Some people pick adults up with out knowing anything about them too, i had a phone call from a lady who had taken home a free adult akita from the paper, got it home and it bit her young child twice within the first hour or so, its crazy! i'd always go for a rescue from a centre that assesses their dogs.



marthaMoo said:


> Nope, I have a house full of dogs with Stories.
> 
> And Bonnie was sent here for me to fix as I have a very quiet home, time and love. She wouldnt be able to cope in a normal house at all. But honestly, I don't think I will ever be able to properly fix her, her mental scars are too deep. But I will love her and understand her for the rest of her life, unconditionally.
> 
> ...




this seems like a good idea



bbav said:


> The thing is many people get turned down by rescues,they don't do themselves any favours!
> Just look here http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...697595-dog-rehoming-centres-frickin-joke.html
> 
> I know most rescues will turn me down as i only have a small garden and the fence on one side is only 3'.
> ...


Rescues have to be careful! They are responsible for finding suitable matches for the individual dogs needs that come in. I think a 3ft fence would be fine for some dogs but for others it would be stupid. i havent seen your garden obviously, but say you'd chosen a dog that didn't get along with other dogs and from your garden that dog could see the street, it could jump over (even a tiny dog could) and get into a fight, just an example of course. Where i work we always have a chat with potential adoptors to find out what their needs are and I think its very important for rescues to make time to get to know potential adoptors even if it will take time to find the right dog for them, however a lot of people could do with a little more patience. We don't discriminate against lack of garden space but the garden has to be secure to keep the selected dog in (if there is a garden at all) some dogs can be better suited to not having a garden.


I'm not 100% against breeding. I think it goes on far more than it needs to not just with dogs of course because theres rescues for pretty much any type of pet even APH which aren't that widely kept. I think the bit i highlighted in purple would be great if that became law and people actually respected it. Its not something that will ever stop i don't think but it would be nice if breeders thought more about the potential consequences of their actions


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

marthaMoo said:


> What I would like to see (as no one will ever agree to a breeding ban) All puppies chiped, tattooed and registered to the breeder and the breeder to be made responsible for those pups/dogs for there entire life. Which means taking them back when they are no longer wanted or dumped.


That is a much better idea - that would sort out the caring breeders from the d*ckheads who don't give a sh*t where their puppies/kittens end up and don't want to know once they've got the money!

Those are your problem breeders and they are the one who get the responsible breeders a bad name! I myself bred cats for nearly 20 years and I never sold a kitten to anyone who I had a gut feeling was a wrong 'un! I've taken responsibility for every kitten I've brought into the world.

Every owner went away with the firm instruction that, if at *any* time in the future they couldn't keep that kitten, they had to come back to me and if I couldn't take it then I would find a new home for it. It's not that long ago that I rehomed a 7 year old boy and his 8 year old half-sister bought by someone in Banff - and I drove the 100 miles to Edinburgh to meet her to get them back. I've even rehomed kittens I've bred *and* other cats of the family, which had nothing to do with me, when an owner has come back to me.

If every breeder did that there wouldn't be a need for rescues or for stopping people breeding altogether.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

My friend has bred GSD for many years and always gets them tattooed so that even when the owner cant be found the breeders details will stay with them for life. All breeders should take responsibility for the animals that they allow to be born. I personally prefer 2nd hand or wonky dogs as I know I havent been part of the mass explosion of unwanted dogs.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Being a breeder, all be it of nasty 'orrible rodents and not cats/dogs, I think your argument is flawed. Not all rescue animals are going to be suitable for all homes, plus we need people to breed responsibly to keep breeds alive, and get them healthy again (and get rid of these backyard bred poor unhealthy examples).

I am also perplexed at why Habu would want to breed from a rescue dog. Rule no1 of responsible breeding is not breeding from animals with an unknown background. Of course they need spaying/neutering, so they cant go straight back into the situation they were probably rescued from - some numpty using them to line their pocket.

Only good healthy animals with long histories should be bred from. Rescue dogs are not only unsuitable for breeding from, they have been through enough.

Sheesh.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2008)

If you are wanting a run of the mill pet then yes I would go to a rescue centre say for a cat, rabbit etc etc. I would think about a puppy from a rescue if it was a small size dog. However, I like big dogs and I am very particular about how I train a dog. There is no way I would get a big breed without knowing its history, far too dangerous. I want 100% faith in my dog hence I would buy a pup from a respectable breeder not any tom dick or harry and train it to my standards!

As ever bad breeders will continue!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Nix said:


> If you are wanting a run of the mill pet then yes I would go to a rescue centre say for a cat, rabbit etc etc. I would think about a puppy from a rescue if it was a small size dog. However, I like big dogs and I am very particular about how I train a dog. There is no way I would get a big breed without knowing its history, far too dangerous. I want 100% faith in my dog hence I would buy a pup from a respectable breeder not any tom dick or harry and train it to my standards!
> 
> As ever bad breeders will continue!


Training isn't something that happens as a puppy and ends. Its is no easier for someone to train a puppy than it is to train a rescue. I would even go as far as having never spent that time where they got use to getting away with stuff due to puppy cuteness with their current owners that rescues can be easier to train to great standards.

I have spent many years working with rescue German Shepherds and not one I have had through my home is "dangerous" and all adapt brilliantly to training of their new owners. Mine went from being a breeding bitch in Skegness to being a Therapy dog with me in Devon and (although I would never recommend the group) was once part of the GSD Club of Devon display team! I have a bond with her second to none and can very easily have as much if not more faith in her as any owner who has raised their dog from a puppy.

You only need a bad experience or two with you brand new puppy and you can easily have a problem behaviour just as hard to deal with as any you can get with a rescue and I hope no one else here would turn their back on an older dog because they share your beliefs.


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

Nix said:


> There is no way I would get a big breed without knowing its history, far too dangerous.


But a small breed has the ability to be just as dangerous, the same as a big breed has the ability to be docile. So surely by that logic getting any dog from a rescue is far too dangerous?


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## tracy pearman (Mar 14, 2011)

I took my family to our local RSPCA at the weekend with the intent of choosing a new family member- boy was I dissappointed!

There was about 30 cats including 3 kittens. These were mostly in pairs and could not be seperated. Sorry, but taking on one cat is hard enough- I won't be taking 2 Thank you!

So we moved on to the dogs. Well 90% of the animals could not go to homes with other pets or children (mostly large agressive animals).Even my 6 yearold was terrified of them and hes a huge dog/animal lover. So that ruled them out, the rest were very old and frail I would not consider them. There were no puppies of any sort. 

I will not be returning! Where are all the kittens and puppies from unwanted litters? Instead the place was filled with staffies and dogs on there last legs. (It would have probably been better to euthanise them, in all honesty and make room for younger dogs/cats).

Its breeders I'll be turning to now I'm afraid.


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## Kovu07 (May 14, 2011)

The puppies and kittens go very quickly and there are often waiting lists, have you thought about going to breed rescues as they often have younger animals?


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

tracy pearman said:


> I took my family to our local RSPCA at the weekend with the intent of choosing a new family member- boy was I dissappointed!
> 
> *There was about 30 cats including 3 kittens. These were mostly in pairs and could not be seperated*. Sorry, but taking on one cat is hard enough- I won't be taking 2 Thank you!
> 
> ...


 
Cats can make a strong bond if they have shared their life with another cat, which is why when they come in as a pair, rescues including ours wont split them. Kittens get rehomed really quickly, its the poor adult cats that have to sit and wait


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## polar (Sep 24, 2009)

I am soon to breed my first litter of Shetland sheepdogs, I only plan to breed when I want a pup. My breed in general is rare in rescues the breed rescue itsself (for the whole country) only has about 10 a year if that, and has a waiting list of people wanting one longer than my arm.

My bitch is fully health TESTED not checked tested meaning:

Hip scores: £120 
Eye exam (yearly): £45 a year.
DNA CEA: £120 

I am using a stud dog even though I have 2 males that would suit my girl fine I want the best I can get with the best health so I am traveling 4 hours in the car to a stud dog. 

I have a rescue GSD and she has been the light of my life however EVEN if the good breeders stopped breeding the puppy farmers and back yard breeders would carry on because they want the money.

My goal is to improve my line and keep back 1 or 2 pups (out of a litter of 3, 4 at the most).


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## Big Red One (Oct 17, 2007)

Nix said:


> If you are wanting a run of the mill pet then yes I would go to a rescue centre say for a cat, rabbit etc etc. I would think about a puppy from a rescue if it was a small size dog. However, I like big dogs and I am very particular about how I train a dog. There is no way I would get a big breed without knowing its history, far too dangerous. I want 100% faith in my dog hence I would buy a pup from a respectable breeder not any tom dick or harry and train it to my standards!
> 
> As ever bad breeders will continue!


Yep - agree with this.
It's not 'breeders' that are bad, it's some pillocks breeding from bad lines without a clue that cocks things up. As for only getting dogs from rescue to 'save the world' I don't think it's that simple tbh.
I've had a lovely rescue mutt for 13 years and she was a lovely little thing. However when she passed, I decided I wanted a specific breed, so went pedigree. I got mine from a recommended breeder from the breed club and had to wait for 6 months. He's a bit more like hard work, which I think is more due to his personality than anything, I saw his mum and siblings and they were very calm dogs. Sometimes dogs are just what they are, they aren't robots.....
I know a gamekeeper who has pointers from the same source and one is so well behaved is untrue and the other trained and kept the same way - well it isn't! So that's not the 'owners/breeders' fault as they are the same fir both dogs.

Anyway - if someone fancies helping a rescue mutt good on em, if they don't then thats their prerogative too.... As long as folk don't go getting pups from mass breeding idiots who clearly are breeding at a detriment to their animals then I see no issues. I love dogs, but it doesn't mean I should settle for any old one from the pound as a lifetime companion!


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## Kare (Mar 9, 2010)

Big Red One said:


> I've had a lovely rescue mutt for 13 years and she was a lovely little thing. However when she passed, I decided I wanted a specific breed
> 
> I love dogs, but it doesn't mean I should settle for any old one from the pound as a lifetime companion!


The sad truth though is they tend not to be mutts, they are pedigree dogs in the rescues. Take for example Many Tears, which has a large list of dogs. Many of them are specific breeds. 

My next dog will be from a breeder, it is a very rare breed and I think after over a decade of rescues and foster dogs I deserve a puppy for once. 

However I think the stories on here of I went to A rescue, they had nothing/wouldn't rehome to me so I HAD to buy is rubbish. It is like saying I went to Topshop once they had no dresses so I had to make my own! Like you wouldnt think to look elsewhere. There is a thousand different rescues many of the smaller ones set up for rehoming to people nationwide or at least covering many counties away. Then there is my option where I spoke to breeders about dogs they were rehoming or heard of returned to breeding friends of theirs.

I think the biggest problem is people want and expect a dog within days of deciding they want one, like they should be as easy to get as a computer game and when they find the first dog in the paper they buy it, very few find waiting months for the rescue process is acceptable or about the correct way to not encourage morons to breed would be to go on a waiting list of someone who will only breed when they have enough people wanting their dogs to feel they have homes for the full litter.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

All our dogs have been rescues. Some pedigree (Blu - dane, various greyhounds), and some not (Sky - lurcher).

I think it's unfair to judge dogs on their behaviour in the kennels. While you may think they're aggressive, dogs act totally differently inside kennels, and are often petrified and bored and lonely. In a home they may be the model pet.

IMO, instead of judging all rescues on one scary kennel visit, you should try a rescue that uses foster homes. That way you can see how the dog reacts in the "real world", and they often child/cat/other dog test while they're on, whereas kennels dont have the means to do that.

Havign said that, I think if you go in looking for a cat, then because they didnt have one to suit, decide to have a dog, you probably haven't thought about the responsibility of getting a pet very much...


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Mmmmmm its all good and well to “re-home” in principle but it simply doesn’t work like that. My wife and I looked at a Doberman that needed re-homing about eight years ago. The rescue centre wouldn’t entertain the idea as I was lecturing (in animal science) at the time and my wife was working nights which meant the dog would have been left alone for about 4-5 hours a day. The dog needed some serious training but they wouldn’t even give us a second look. We then brought Tara (our late English Springer Spaniel who was put down due to cancer) and had seven fabulous years with her. I later enquired about the Doberman and was informed that it had been euthanized because no one would take it on!!! I was disgusted that the “rescue centre” had in effect signed this dog up to a death sentence because of their rules. 

Anyhow we now have a German/Belgium shepherd cross (from a puppy) and a rescue English springer spaniel. Both are great dogs and I wouldn’t give them up for the world. 

Tara before she became ill










Max and Pippa cuddled up


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## sarahc (Jan 7, 2009)

I am not going to have something that has reached a rescue when my current lot pass on.I am going to have something that is on death row at a pound,an undesirable unwanted bull breed whose number is up.However I have an adult only household and can afford to risk an unknown back ground,I might have thought differently when the family was young.


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## Recluso (Dec 3, 2010)

I wouldn't lump the responsible breeders in with all the halfwits who breed their staffies thinking they can make a quick buck off the puppies.

Yes, there are too many dogs/cats in the homes, but at the same time, there are some breeds which require careful breeding to ensure that the line continues (I'm not going to mention my opinion here on lines I think should be left to die out  ). Or perhaps a person wants a specific breed because they have an aim in mind such as showing.

I work with the RSPCA, I've seen the crap behind the scenes that makes you want to go out there and hunt down some of these so called 'owners' and do to them what they've done to their animals. But on the other side of the coin, many pounds/kennels (especially RSPCA ones) make it EXTREMELY hard to give an animal a home.

For example. I was considering rehoming a cat from a local shelter in the near future. But, based on their rehoming policy, I wouldn't be 'eligible' as (amongst other things) I live too close to a road, can't provide a cat flap, would be out of the house for 4+ hours a day and, as I have dogs, would be under different 'vetting' procedures despite the fact that my dogs both raised my last two cats and didn't go anywhere without them.

Knowing that there are so many animals in shelters, I would LOVE, for instance, to give a cat a home. But, because of their own policies, I wouldn't be deemed eligible, despite being able to provide a safe and loving environment. And yet, I know breeders of both cats and dogs, who would sell me a puppy/kitten tomorrow because they would be happy that I could provide the home that animal needs.

So yes, there's too many in the shelters and irresponsible breeders should be shot and ideally, not be allowed to keep animals. But at the same time, shelters do not make it easy for animals to be rehomed themselves.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

LisaLQ said:


> Being a breeder, all be it of nasty 'orrible rodents and not cats/dogs, I think your argument is flawed. Not all rescue animals are going to be suitable for all homes, plus we need people to breed responsibly to keep breeds alive, and get them healthy again (and get rid of these backyard bred poor unhealthy examples).
> 
> I am also perplexed at why Habu would want to breed from a rescue dog. Rule no1 of responsible breeding is not breeding from animals with an unknown background. Of course they need spaying/neutering, so they cant go straight back into the situation they were probably rescued from - some numpty using them to line their pocket.
> 
> ...


 
pure breed dogs end up at the pound... but they aren't as valuable when they're papers are destroyed... pedigree papers just add value to a dog who's owner has died or something... a purebred doberman in a pound just becomes another rescue dog... when it could be on par with what the best breeders produce...

rescuing does is great... rescuing their bloodline is good too...

some purebreds don't get adopted because no one wants a fixed purebred with no papers... so fine pureblooded dogs get destroyed along with the mixed bloods...


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## chalky76 (Aug 23, 2007)

Recluso said:


> I wouldn't lump the responsible breeders in with all the halfwits who breed their staffies thinking they can make a quick buck off the puppies.
> 
> Yes, there are too many dogs/cats in the homes, but at the same time, there are some breeds which require careful breeding to ensure that the line continues (I'm not going to mention my opinion here on lines I think should be left to die out  ). Or perhaps a person wants a specific breed because they have an aim in mind such as showing.
> 
> ...


 
Very well said indeed!!!!!!:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## Stacey010884 (Mar 7, 2009)

This has always been a controversial subject.

I love the thought and wish things were that simple, but it's not.

*Responsible* breeding is essential.
1. There are breeds that are VERY few in numbers and I believe we should try to preserve those.
2. Gene pool. The smaller the gene pool the more issues with health and behaviour we encounter, so breeding is neccessary to try to breed out these things and provide a larger gene pool for healthy future generations.

Unfortunately I can't see any way for this to happen without there being "surplus stock".

The above applies to all species so I've not said "dogs".

With specific regards to dogs, I wish I would stop seeing these stupid mixes. Non-pedigree pooches, mutts, are wonderful and don't tend to suffer with breed specific problems, BUT, all these 2 x pedigree mixes are out of hand, especially with deluded owners/breeders asking £500 odd for the puppies. They're mongrels you fools, you're not creating a new breed! Irritates the heck outta me!

With regards to my dog. We went to Battersea. We didn't pass the vetting process so we brought her. Are we bad owners? No. We love her to bits, walk her, clean up her poo and provide for all her needs, general and medical!
So, while good, responsible people might TRY to adopt, sometimes we're not given the chance so buying is the only option.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

HABU said:


> pure breed dogs end up at the pound... but they aren't as valuable when they're papers are destroyed... pedigree papers just add value to a dog who's owner has died or something... a purebred doberman in a pound just becomes another rescue dog... when it could be on par with what the best breeders produce...
> 
> rescuing does is great... rescuing their bloodline is good too...
> 
> some purebreds don't get adopted because no one wants a fixed purebred with no papers... so fine pureblooded dogs get destroyed along with the mixed bloods...


There is no good breeder who'd let their dog end up in a rescue. So the dogs in rescue are not breeding quality, so why on earth would you need their papers if you couldnt breed from them?

Dont be ridiculous. If your only concern is making a fast buck off someone else's pet quality dog, then you shouldnt be rescuing anyway, as it'd just be one crap home into another.


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## LisaLQ (Jan 29, 2009)

Stacey010884 said:


> This has always been a controversial subject.
> 
> I love the thought and wish things were that simple, but it's not.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of what you said apart from the last bit. If you're turned down by a rescue, you should either a. fix the reasons you were turned down for, or b. try another rescue.

You'll often find some people will go to one rescue, get turned down, and leave it at that, saying all rescues are the same. They're not. We had 5 kids when we adopted Blu, 3 of which were under 8. I was on the dole. I knew no-one would home out to me as I was also disabled at that point. Did I go to the rescues I knew would have problems with that? No. I went to a breed rescue and explained why I'd be a good home for one of their dogs. And I passed the homecheck.

Truth is, if people really wanted to rescue, they'd do all they could to do so. Going to one rescue and giving up says that they weren't really that fussed about rescuing.

I know there are always reasons...we have kids...we're working full time....the rescues are too far away...blah blah blah. If we could do it, anyone could. And if they couldnt, there must be a good reason why they're being turned down, and its likely a good breeder would turn them down too.

You also have to remember not all dogs are suitable for all homes. You may want that xyz breed of dog, or that specific mongrel, or a non-shedding etc....but if you go to a rescue who uses foster homes, explain the important needs you have (eg. low energy, or vice versa, good with kids, etc) and let them pick for you, you are more likely to end up with a dog that will be right for you.


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## Tds79 (Nov 6, 2010)

I think the problem is alot of people try the bigger rescues, who for the majority have very strict rehoming policies and then give up. I always advise people to try the smaller rescues, they tend to be more helpful and more willing to "adapt" their policy if it means a animal will get a loving home. 

With regards to breeding I whole heartly believe all breeders should be licenced and checked, I know it will never happen but I do believe it would certainly help (i am not silly enough to believe it would stop fully) control the amount of puppies that are being curned out. 
Regardless of what happens I do believe, that we cannot carry on ignoring what is happening, because there is a problem .....Rescue centres are at bursting points, and its suprising how many puppies are now ending up in rescues now.


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## feorag (Jul 31, 2007)

Tds79 said:


> With regards to breeding I whole heartly believe all breeders should be licenced and checked, I know it will never happen but I do believe it would certainly help (i am not silly enough to believe it would stop fully) control the amount of puppies that are being curned out.
> Regardless of what happens I do believe, that we cannot carry on ignoring what is happening, because there is a problem .....Rescue centres are at bursting points, and its suprising how many puppies are now ending up in rescues now.


I'm not sure what the situation is with the Kennel Club, but the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy long ago introduced the Non-Active Register in an attempt to ensure that only cats considered good enough for breeding are bred from, so breeders can register their kittens on the non-active register which means that kittens from those cats can't be registered.

Of course it doesn't work because people will still breed from these pet quality kittens and sell them unregistered, usually offering the excuse "because they don't register them they can sell them cheaper". I've seen that excuse on here and there are people on this forum who are doing just that, breeding from stock that they have bought as pets and selling them, because they are pedigrees.

So it's very difficult for conscientious breeders to ensure that their pups/kittens don't end up in rescues or breeding pups/kittens that end up in rescues, but the conscientious ones who are doing it for love and to improve their chosen breed do take responsibility for the pups/kittens they bring into the world.


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## Shell195 (May 31, 2007)

feorag said:


> I'm not sure what the situation is with the Kennel Club, but the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy long ago introduced the Non-Active Register in an attempt to ensure that only cats considered good enough for breeding are bred from, so breeders can register their kittens on the non-active register which means that kittens from those cats can't be registered.
> 
> Of course it doesn't work because people will still breed from these pet quality kittens and sell them unregistered, usually offering the excuse "because they don't register them they can sell them cheaper". I've seen that excuse on here and there are people on this forum who are doing just that, breeding from stock that they have bought as pets and selling them, because they are pedigrees.
> 
> So it's very difficult for conscientious breeders to ensure that their pups/kittens don't end up in rescues or breeding pups/kittens that end up in rescues, but the conscientious ones who are doing it for love and to improve their chosen breed do take responsibility for the pups/kittens they bring into the world.


 

Dog breeders can have their pups papers endorsed which is much the same as the cat ones but as you say it still doesnt stop unscrupulous people from breeding from them. I think the only way to stop people breeding from these animals is for the youngsters to be neutered before leaving for new homes.


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