# Should Reptile Importing be banned?



## boa10 (Mar 19, 2008)

Im new here and looking through the different forums about the problems and future keeping of reptiles. I was reading a newspaper the other week and in it there was an article about exotic animal dealing around the world. Someone was quoted saying it was a good idea that the UK should ban the exotic trade stating the tortoise trade and bird trade. I thought both were almost over if not ¨extinct¨now?
members thoughts.
Boa 10


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## freekygeeky (May 25, 2007)

boa10 said:


> Im new here and looking through the different forums about the problems and future keeping of reptiles. I was reading a newspaper the other week and in it there was an article about exotic animal dealing around the world. Someone was quoted saying it was a good idea that the UK should ban the exotic trade stating the tortoise trade and bird trade. I thought both were almost over if not ¨extinct¨now?
> members thoughts.
> Boa 10


unfortuantly WC reptiles etc are imported still.. not from every where mind. but still done. i dont see why as most things can be bred in captivity..

for example... cresties - gargs etc etc... they were thought to be extinct, you now cannot get them WC , but everyone breeds them here which is great etc etc .


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## Moshpitviper (Oct 21, 2005)

I do not think a total ban is necessary. a lot of it boils down to greed on behalf of certain companies within the trade. i have PERSONALLY seen shops order WC whites tree frogs over the CB ones on the same list to save ............ (drum roll please)............... £2 !

mind you i have seen shops offer both cb and wc of the same species, with little difference in price yet have seen then the same cb animals in the shop for some time and a high rotation of wc examples.

the bottom line is money.

And this should not be so. 

WC animals are a necessary evil or eventually our bloodlines will become scablines and all our snakes will develop arms on their heads etc. so it is important to top up bloodlines..... but when necessary and not when cost is a factor.

and as for CF? don't get me started, someone is making a fortune doing that all we end up with is crap feeders (most of the time, have known some great ones).

And also with reptile keeping being as big a thing as it is today, more so than ever.... it stands to reason that poorer countries will march to the drum of 'supply and demand'. we shouldn't really bitch about the WC debate.... we as a community are the sole reason it even happens.


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## Meko (Apr 29, 2007)

by importing do you mean wild caught or *anything* imported? 
Almost every reptile line has been an import at one time. By banning all imports it would mean the end of people going Hamm and Houten and bringing anything back along with people stuggling to get morphs they want.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

na that would be bad, a complete ban wouldnt be good and would be detrimental to the industry but stricter laws wouldnt be a bad thing, imported animals should be protected better during the process of capture and shipping


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

laws are like house guests, once you have them... they can be mighty hard to get rid of.


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## ShortFUSE (Jan 20, 2007)

boa10 said:


> Im new here and looking through the different forums about the problems and future keeping of reptiles. I was reading a newspaper the other week and in it there was an article about exotic animal dealing around the world. Someone was quoted saying it was a good idea that the UK should ban the exotic trade stating the tortoise trade and bird trade. I thought both were almost over if not ¨extinct¨now?
> members thoughts.
> Boa 10


NO:lol2:


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## stephenie191 (May 29, 2007)

Hmmm, i think the laws should be strikter and i wish exotic birds weren't tacken as often as they are 

It's a tricky situation


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

We need wc animals for new blood if the populations we currently have are to flourish in captivity longterm . one of the reasons theres so many crossed carpet pythons is because the gene pools are so limited etc, This is not good at all...so NO from me im sick of being controlled by poxy governments and legislations ,i thought this was a free country ? I do however think we need stricter licencing to stop dodgy people proffitting from bad importations etc


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## amber_gekko (May 11, 2007)

i dont think importing should be banned but i think it should be liscenced better. At the moment anyone can apply for a liscence to import as long as they pay thats all that matters, if there was a liscencing system in place there would be accountability for anything thats imported illegal or imported in appauling conditions


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## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

I would like nothing more than a ban on captive farmed Royal python imports just a few more weeks and they will be back


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## Mason (Jan 21, 2008)

wohic said:


> I would like nothing more than a ban on captive farmed Royal python imports just a few more weeks and they will be back


 
You don't want the importing banned, you want the irresponsible selling to end.

we're getting saome CF royals in and any we don't keep will be sold in exactly the same way as a CB hatchling. Once it's had 6 consecutive strike feeds. At this point we feel that the snake is "feeding" and should continue to do so if kept properly by the new owner.

The problem arises when people sell after one feed, no feeds or even still while being assisted. The other end of the problem is the amount of owners who don't research their snakes. If treated properly and kept properly a responsibly sold CF royal should be fine.

Trouble is it can take time to get a oryal to that stage, and most sellers don't bother.


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

Considering a coach load of people (150 odd people) went over to Germany and "imported" reptiles there... why would you want to ban importation?

Many animals are imported from the EU and the USA that are captive bred. The death rate on the importation of these is extremely low. A total ban on imports would also ban all the CB animals that come in.

There are many pros and cons of importing WC animals.

Yes, WC animals are stressed, and often carry parasite loads. The quantities in which they are brought in makes the death toll higher, both during importation, and afterwards.
Yes, Sometimes taking WC animals can endanger the numbers in the wild. However, to counter this, there are strict rules and regulations on CITES animals, this should protect all the endangered species in the wild, making this point null.

However...

WC animals can be seen as pests in some countries. The catching and exporting actually keeps them alive as opposed to simply being killed as a nuisance. 
WC animals can support whole communities as the trackers and hunters are employed where they might not else find a job.
WC animals bring fresh blood into the country. If you shut down the borders completely we will get inbreeding problems eventually!
WC animals in captivity can be established and bred, paving the way to decrease the import in the future. If that animal is decreased in the wild by natural disaster or man made hazards such as deforestation, having established groups in captivity could save that animal from extinction.

The key is importing responsibly and selling responsibly.


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## ultimate_boides (Nov 18, 2007)

At the end of the day you look at the quota for live animals compared and it is minimal compared to lets say skins etc. 

http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2008/ExportQuotas2008.pdf

Have a look here and see just how many skins are imported and these are adult skins not babies, they wonder why the animals are becoming extinct. 

Dumb F**ks is all i can say.

Have to agree with Steve though about the carpet Pythons, its getting better but not greatly.

Victoria.


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## LeeH (Jan 26, 2005)

i don't think it should end at all...in an ideal world everything would CB but in the right hands a CF animal can be just as healthy as a CB animal..its just how easy they are bought for then the keeper to worry and start stressing it out more by handling it loads and forcefeeding it after like 2 weeks.
WC will make new bloodlines keeping the animals healthy for generations to come and contribute towards the more desirable animals being CB more in future as some private keepers have had more success with breeding rarities than most zoos and conversation establishments and the wild caught gives people a chance to own something and get their own findings from keeping the animal because not every animal has pages upon pages to learn from via books and google.
animal bloodlines are very limted on such a small place like the UK compared to the states and europe so itll be alright for first couple of years if importing stops then youll have problems caused by lack of new blood ike in some austrilian fauna like has been mentioned regarding carpet pythons(bearded dragons too)


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## jasper1 (Apr 15, 2007)

As previously pointed out, we need to import....responsibly.

I keep/am interested in some of the more uncommon species. Therefore, there is little or no captive breeding program so I either do without or obtain WC. A lot of people are against WC and I agree that some of the methods are unforgiveable....but not all importers are like this.

At one time, there was no alternative but to obtain WC even for your run of the mill Corn, BD, etc. Overtime this will be the case for the more uncommon species too. But, we will still need to bring in WC to boost the _fresh blood_ from time to time.


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## -EJ (Jan 20, 2008)

Post this on any chelonian forum... prepare to get slaughtered.

Banning would be stupid and selfish in the grand scheme of things. New blood will always be needed if the captive population of any critter is to be kept healthy and self sustaining.


Regulation is another matter... it is sad to see the mass importation of some WC animals. For these... I suggest that those who are seriously interested in breeding... stock up... it will not last.

The ball pythons... quit crying... it is one of the poster children of range country farming... it obviously work which is why ball pythons are so inexpensive... kinda like the African Spurred although they are totally CB for the most part.

Again... control is a good thing... banning is not.

Ed


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## boa10 (Mar 19, 2008)

*Banning imports*

Hi All,
Its interesting to read what members think about this issue.
The member who said that in many countrys reptiles are considered pests.
Where I live 1000s of tortoises and river turtles and their eggs are taken every year without any regard to cites listed 1or100 (yes I know 100 doesn't exsist), or that all animals are protected and banned export, except captive breding farms, which their are only two or three in all whole country. No one takes notice and the law does nothing to inforce the law. Birds, parrots, are considered pests and are killed, becuse thats all the farmers can do with most of them they catch.
So, when people say thhey are best left in the wild Im affraid they really do not know what they are talking about in the real world.
Regards
Boa10


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## neep_neep (Oct 18, 2007)

stephenie191 said:


> Hmmm, i think the laws should be strikter and i wish exotic birds weren't tacken as often as they are


I believe that the import of wild birds into the UK has actually been ceased already.


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## boa10 (Mar 19, 2008)

*Banning imports*

Hi All,And Im sure that the anti imports would still say birds now (reptiles maybe later) are still better off in their countries (dead because thats what happens to I would say 80-90% here and with tortoises and river turtles 99.9%) then as someones pet or breeders specimen.Mad world isn't it.Boa10


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## -EJ (Jan 20, 2008)

The only point I'd like to address... now... later... the herpers have the internet... very short time communication... say something before you become a 'bird perple'. The medium is there... speak up.

Ed



boa10 said:


> Hi All,And Im sure that the anti imports would still say birds now (reptiles maybe later) are still better off in their countries (dead because thats what happens to I would say 80-90% here and with tortoises and river turtles 99.9%) then as someones pet or breeders specimen.Mad world isn't it.Boa10


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## gtm (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't believe imports should be banned - imports animals will transform into smuggled animals - this will result in more exploitation & abuse. It will also draw in really, really nasty characters (organised crime) who are always ready to jump feet first into a profitable business.


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