# ALL PLASTIC VIVS



## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

FINALLY HERE! YES WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR - ALL PLASTIC VIVS HERE IN THE UK. SIZE RANGING FROM 2' TO 6' .SPECIALS ONE OFFS UNDERTAKEN.
CONTACT ME FOR PICTURES AND PRICE LIST.
[email protected].


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

cant do email at the moment how about you post some pics and prices on here i would be interested.


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

i agree i just cant be arsed to email and i wana be nosey


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## tombraider (May 6, 2006)

wont plastic vivs warp and scratch?


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## liam_rokocoko (Aug 25, 2006)

tombraider said:


> wont plastic vivs warp and scratch?


no, just like plastic tubs they are very popular over in america.

heres some links:
http://www.boaphileplastics.com/
http://www.animalplastics.com/
http://www.visioncages.com/


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## nicky (Jul 13, 2005)

actually they look great...  i use just simple plastic pet pals for my tarantulas tombraider and they never seem to scratch.....


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Photos??

I love the Boaphile vivs, but a link to that site gives no indication to the quality of these UK ones.

Any photos of the ACTUAL products raptor 1 ???

Gary


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

I was emailed the above two photos with the following...

Please see attached 4' and 5' vivs. Note - Hinges showing will not be used 
as too costly (£10. each!) Other quality hinges will be used in place. Prices All Cages are 600 deep and 380 high unless you ask for special one offs in 
which case email or call me for details.

Prices

1830 £350

1500 £265

1200 £230

900 £210

600 £190.

I certainly wont be opening my wallet for these, anyone else got any thoughts?

Gary


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

Personally i'd rather buy herptek for that money!!

They look very much like a hybrid of boaphiles and animal plastics, without any of the style IMO.


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

I agree, looks like a flight case with a hole cut in it


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

I dont think they look too bad, not all that different to most of the american ones. I agree at that money id buy a herptek, there isnt much in it and I know the herptek ones are quality, whereas Ive never seen one of these "in the flesh" as it were.


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

Hi sorry not getting back sooner but - quite busy right now - with building of the APAH Vivs.
Ok to answer all of your questions.
Certainly plastic being plastic scatches. No matter what plastic it is - it will scratch. 
I personally reaserched of what material would be best for keeping my boas in. I came up with Polypropylene. I give all the reasons below.

As a cabinet maker a much more cheaper way of producing quality vivs would have been out of Ply etc Problem is - as I am sure a lot of you know - no matter how you coat your vivs - sooner or later that uric acid creeps into the joins and boy does that smell! no way can you get it out.
Anyone who still uses wood or melamine, MDF, faces a big problem of smells, plus it is definetley not the best way in regards health for you snake/reptile. Not a sales pitch ,just the truth.
I looked at all the altetnatives. The only plastic ones available - I was not happy with. fine if you are only keeping one or two boids - but if you have a room full of boids - you need to find the best soloution fot the boids and you.
I tried a racking system. I found this to be unsuitable for me as you need the extra space for opening the draw.
Sooo - next best thing was to produce my own.
One thing leads to another- now I find myself retailing them.
The sizes suite me. Beleive me when I said I reaserched. I contacted boid breeders in the U.S.A. and U.K (successfull ones) and asked them what size cages would they like there boas to be kept in for succesfull breeding/keeping.
Most preferd the 1500 size for female boas and the 900 for male. Yes this may suprise you. Obviously for the well grown on females the 1800 vivs .
As my pricing goes firstly here is a link - http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t34670.html 
here is a reply what was posted on the link.
"As someone who has been trying to launch a range of plastic vivs for the last 3 years, let me give you a little insight into the costs of plastic vivariums.
Tooling for each size of vivarium, whether it be for vacuum formings or roto mouldings run at a starting cost of around £10,000. Thats for each size.
Plastic prices are based around oil prices. When you consider that a 4' Herptek weighs over 25 kilos and the plastic costs around £5 per kilo there is little room to absorb tooling costs.
Add to that the CNC programes to be written to cut all the holes out and the costs of the track, the ventilation and the toughened glass doors and the labour to put them together and you will see why they are not cheap! 
Then they have to be shipped around and thats not cheap, being a big box that doesnt stack.
Phew, must stop for a breath!
So there you have it, in short it is not commercially viable.
Herptek Vivs, whilst not being cheap, believe you me, are not much more than cost. Take into consideration the tooling costs and I would be surprised if they ever break even!
Finally, with injection mouldings the tools are even more expensive as you have a male and female tool. 
I can tell you that the tooling for a well known plastic box used for snake keeping in racks cost over £100,000!
Hope that helps to understand the situation.
Its not that manufacturers are oblivious to the need for plastic vivs, but they just can't afford to make them!
Pete" 
This may give you some understanding of how much they cost to produce. ,just the hardware costs alone come to £35 on the 1800 viv. 
The good news is - I have adjusted my prices - yes Iam a sucker I know.
Hopefully these prices you will find Suitable.

All Cages are 600 deep and 380 high unless you ask for special one offs in 
which case email or call me for details.
.
We here at APAH are totally confident that you will not find a better or equal Vivarium/cage for your reptiles anywhere else here in the UK..



Prices

1830 £350 – reduced £325

1500 £265	- reduced	£255

1200 £230	- reduced	£210

900 £210 - reduced	£190

600 £190. - reduced £175


APAH Vivs are Polypropylene. Polypropylene is a petroleum industry by-product which has excellent strength and is very resistant to abrasion. 
•	Excellent resistance to most acids and alkalis. 
•	Good resistance to bleaches and solvents. 
•	Not attacked by mildew. 
•	Good resistance to aging, indirect sunlight, and abrasion. 
Polypropylene is safe for your reptiles it can be used in food processing applications. This is self-extinguishing material with a melting temperature of 325-350 degrees F so you don't have to worry about a fire hazard.

We have designed our doors (6mm acrylic) so there is enough room (approx 4mm) around the doors for ventilation, this makes for great heat and humidity retention. .. If you have a reptile that likes a more arid climate you can simply drill vent holes in the back of the cage with a standard drill and bit, this is not brittle plastic

Our doors drop open design makes it so they can not bind shut under the weight of heavy bodied snakes. They open completely, dropping flat to the face of the cage below so there is nothing in your way. Cages 6ft or larger have a center support and 2 doors for both strength and safety.

Colour Black – Unless you specify a colour of your choice. (you may have to place multiple order for any other colour than black as we do not hold these in stock.

Alan (APAH) All Plastic Animal Housing

Discount for Multiple/Trade Orders.
Carriage at your cost. (Hopefully I will have a price list for carriage some time this week.)
Note - Hinges showing will not be used 
as too costly (£10. each!) Other quality hinges will be used in place.

Hope this answers most of you questions - now get rid of those horrible melemine ones and do something nice for your snake (and me) LOL


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Thanks for the reply,

However,

Telling us how much they cost to make isnt gonna make us jump up and start spending.

The fact is (in my opionion), they just don't look nice! Yes the snakes health is paramount, but the cosmetic side is important.

Melamine vivs may rot, smell or whatever after a long time, but they are VERY inexpensive to replace if need be.

Finally this isnt REALLY the place to be trying to sell your products. Why not set up a website with a selection of photos etc?

Gary


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## pythonmorphs (Mar 13, 2006)

I think you are being too harsh Garysumpter, I looked into this myself as the US have many plastic vivs available and we have none barr Herptek and those cheap ones on ebay, The costs of materials are high and the guy just responded to ppl saying they were expensive and explained why. I cant comment on the look of these vivs as I have not seen them, this is just what we need in the UK and I knew someone would do it sooner or later they have to start somewhere as did Animal plastics, visioncages and boaphile. Whats wrong with them trying to promote sales on this public forum many shops and breeders do it.


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## Dan (Jan 11, 2006)

I have been looking at vivarium production myself.

There ARE cheaper alternatives. The range we are working on runs in up to 16 foot lengths and costs the customer only slightly more than melamine!!

By all means by these, raptor by all means make them - BUT i gave up on this way of making them ages ago because of the cost issues. 

Our range for hobbiests WILL be available within the next 6 months and i guarantee it will be cheaper than anything else like it on the market + it will last you just as long and come in any colour/design you want!!

Bold claims i know - watch this space :wink:


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## garysumpter (Apr 18, 2005)

Promises Promises 

I maintain my opinions thought.

My favourite plastic vivs are those made by boaphile plasticws, I think they look GREAT.

Yes they have a price tag, but you can see the quality 

Gary


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

I would like to thank reticulatus, and maki for there posetive replies. 
Maybe I should have really explained that these are for the more serious breeder. Health of the animal in my opinion (and of others) is much more paramount than cosmetic looks. Garysumpter - you firstly say "Yes the snakes health is paramount, but the cosmetic side is important" I dont want to carry this on - but it is clear to me the look of how your vivs look is more important to you. After all you go on to say "Melamine vivs may rot, smell or whatever after a long time, but they are VERY inexpensive to replace if need be.
Ah well just goes to show - you cant please all the people all the time!.
Hey reticulatus good luck with you new production- sounds GREAT!


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## Andy (Jul 27, 2005)

I think they look quite good actually.


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

me 2


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## PendleHog (Dec 21, 2005)

I think they look very similar to the boaphiles, so i dont know why gary dislikes the looks so much :? Cant please em all - frankly i'd rather have a viv that didnt warp, smell etc and didnt need replacing all the time, so plastics definately have a place in my housing plans.

Interested in hearing what Dan's will be like too when they're ready...


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

Boahphiles are great and the guy who owns it is a gentleman.. and if shipping wasn't so damned expensive I would have them here and now.. 


However... these ones look grand as well, but I would like (and need to actually) know more about them. Are they stackable? All the usual business stuff. 

God how I miss my boaphiles sniff sniff


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## weelad (Jul 25, 2006)

this threads a year old......... :Na_Na_Na_Na:


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## Genseric (Oct 7, 2007)

but... The thread is still relevant


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

Hi, Please see website. Can I suggest to see my website with all information about prices etc. You can also read the testemonial page from people who are using rhinovivs. Any more info needed just contact me , iam only too willing to help
Rhinovivs

Thanks
Alan
ps I will be posting advertisement for 2007 Arabesques, one G Line hypo (female) 3 Normal Females (one exceptionally clean) Over the weekend.


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## Azazel777 (Mar 18, 2007)

raptor1 said:


> Hi sorry not getting back sooner but - quite busy right now - with building of the APAH Vivs.
> Ok to answer all of your questions.
> Certainly plastic being plastic scatches. No matter what plastic it is - it will scratch.
> I personally reaserched of what material would be best for keeping my boas in. I came up with Polypropylene. I give all the reasons below.
> ...


rhinos are great but dont you think you will have problems with copyright infringement what with ripping off rhino in america as well as boaphile?


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## raptor1 (May 3, 2005)

*Rhinovivs*

Hi, not really sure were your coming from regarding copy right- very very difficult. Just because you make a viv out of plastic- does not mean you have copyright. A bit like.. "well I make my vivs out of Solid orange boxes so no one else can."
Here are a few links to more viv builders - who make them out of some form of plastic.
http://www.junglehabitatsplastics.com/webstore/
http://www.animalplastics.com/
http://constrictorsnw.com/cagessupply/aboutprolinecages.html
http://precisioncaging.com/
http://monster-cages.com/cages.php.
I am launching a new viv in the next week or so, and as far as I know it will be a worlds first as far as vivs made from poly prop - I am launching a viv with GLASS SLIDING doors. Can I copy right it- I very much doubt it.
Will I be botherd if those viv builders start using it .No. 
Hope this clears matters.
Alan
Rhinovivs


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