# confusion with genetics



## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

for some unknown reason, i cant seem to grasp any genetics
if anyone could explain to me, step by step about genetics, i would really appreciate it, i'm planning on breeding some of my leos, but i really want some help with all the different morph outcomes etc before i start anything!
any help, would be greatly appreciated.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Ok, let's see if I can have a go.

First, ALL genes come in pairs, and the gene from one pair won't migrate to another pair. So, for example, if you have "Tremper Albino Family" genes (which are "Tremper Albino" and "Not-Tremper-Albino"), they won't jump and sit in the gene pair slots for "Mack Snow". 

Tremper Albino is recessive to normal ("Not-Tremper"). 
This means that you've got to have two copies of "Tremper" in order for a gecko to LOOK like a Tremper albino - and that gecko had to have gotten one copy from EACH of its parents.
A gecko with one copy of "Tremper" and one copy of "Not Tremper" looks like a normal, but could pass Tremper on to its offspring. Because the two genes on the pair are different, this is called a "Het Tremper". It is also "het Not-Tremper" - because it's only got one copy of Normal.

A gecko with two copies of "Not-Tremper" is also a normal - but that gecko can NEVER have Tremper albino babies, because it does not carry the trait at all.

Are you with me so far?


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

Ssthisto said:


> Ok, let's see if I can have a go.
> 
> First, ALL genes come in pairs, and the gene from one pair won't migrate to another pair. So, for example, if you have "Tremper Albino Family" genes (which are "Tremper Albino" and "Not-Tremper-Albino"), they won't jump and sit in the gene pair slots for "Mack Snow".
> 
> ...


Okay, so if i had a mack snow female and a normal male
and as all genes come in pairs, would the babies be normal het macksnows?


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## kirsten (Jan 13, 2008)

no, mack snow is a co-dominant morph. which means the "het" mack snow is black and white bands, and the two copy (homozygous) snow is white with black pinstripe like spots (born grey).

so normal x mack snow gives
50% normals
50% mack snows


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

i was gonna add that but the laptop switched off
i was gonna say 50% normal and 50% mack snow

:blush:
ok so with a bell albino female with a male
would the babies be 50% normal and 50% bell albino?


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## MrMike (Jun 28, 2008)

takeoffyourcolours said:


> Okay, so if i had a mack snow female and a normal male
> and as all genes come in pairs, would the babies be normal het macksnows?


As Kirsten said, Mack snow is already "het Mack snow". So a Mack snow parent will pass on either the mack snow gene or the not-mack snow gene for that particular gene pair.


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

takeoffyourcolours said:


> i was gonna add that but the laptop switched off
> i was gonna say 50% normal and 50% mack snow
> 
> :blush:
> ...


If the male is normal, no, you wouldn't get half Bell Albino, because Bell albino is another recessive gene, and the babies have to inherit one copy of Bell from EACH parent.


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

so the babies would be het bell?
sorry im just bit stupid with genes:blush:


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

That's right, they'd be normal-looking, but they'd all be het Bell.

Half of knowing genetics is knowing how the rules work - recessive, codominant and dominant - and half is knowing which genes follow which rules.


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## paulh (Sep 19, 2007)

takeoffyourcolours said:


> so the babies would be het bell?
> sorry im just bit stupid with genes:blush:


It might be helpful to actually name the two genes in the gene pair rather than saying het bell. So the Bell albino female has two Bell albino genes and the normal male has two normal (not Bell albino) genes. The babies can only get a Bell albino gene from the mother and can only get a normal gene from the father.

It may also help to take two scraps of paper and write one of the father's genes on each scarp. And do the same with the mother's genes and two more scraps of paper. Then start matching one gene from the father with one gene from the mother until you've worked out all the possible combinations.

Or you can use cookies to represent the genes. John has two chocolate cookies (two normal genes), and Mary has two vanilla cookies (two Bell albino genes). John gives you a cookie, and Mary gives you a cookie so you have two cookies. What are your two cookies? Answer: one chocolate cookie (normal gene) and one vanilla cookie (Bell albino gene).

My problem is that I start eating the cookies. :lol2:


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

okay, so enigmas then
i have a tangerine tornado x tangerine enigma
the father was a tangerine enigma and the mother was a tangerine tornado
im guessing engima genes are recessive too?


i was thinking about breeding my high yellow with my normal
okay so the babies would be 50% normal, 50% hi yellow?


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## Ssthisto (Aug 31, 2006)

Actually, Enigma appears to be dominant. That means two things:

1. You only need one copy of the gene from one parent to show the gene. Sort of like if Mary gave you a chocolate garlic chip cookie - that's going to overpower a plain chocolate chip cookie, isn't it?
2. If you get one copy of the gene, you look the same as if you'd gotten two copies of the gene. Two garlic cookies won't actually make you any smellier, all it means is that you've only got garlic cookies to give away.

If your gecko is not VISUALLY an Enigma, it is just a tangerine from Enigma lines.

Now, High-Yellow follows the FOURTH rule.

Which is the "selectively enhanced traits" one. Basically, although there WILL be on-off genes controlling whether the gecko shows enhanced yellow colouring, it could be that there are half a dozen genes, all working together (some dominant, some recessive, some codominant) to get that bright yellow, like ingredients in a cookie recipe that *all together* make the completed butterscotch cookie. There's no one SINGLE gene controlling the colour, so you can't make the same predictions. And there may be more than one way to get to that bright yellow colour - more than one recipe that makes tasty butterscotch cookies.

I would expect High Yellow X Normal to make babies that are less yellow than the High-Yellow parent, but more yellow than the normal parent. Basically, some of the cookie ingredients may show through, but I wouldn't expect them all to


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## takeoffyourcolours (Apr 11, 2009)

i'm starting to get it, the cookie examples help lol :2thumb:
so what if my tangerine tornado bred with another tangerine enigma? would the babies be brighter orange? and have double enigma genes?


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## leopardgeckomad (Feb 2, 2008)

hello, this might help,

Leopard Gecko Genetics - A Discussion of Particular Leopard Gecko Morphs


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## gazz (Dec 9, 2006)

takeoffyourcolours said:


> okay, so enigmas then
> i have a tangerine tornado x tangerine enigma
> the father was a tangerine enigma and the mother was a tangerine tornado
> im guessing engima genes are recessive too?
> ...


There are 4 possible outcome depending on wheather your Enigma and Hypo type(TT's) is [1C] or [2C] coz both morph are Dominant.

[1C]Enigma tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .

Normal.
[1C]Enigma.
[1C]Hypo.
[1CH,1CE]Hypo enigma.

Offspring will likly be influanced by tangerine.
A percent Hypo offspring will likly mature into Super hypo.
----
[1C]Enigma tangerine X [2C]Super hypo tangerine = .

[1C]Hypo.
[1CH,1CE]Hypo enigma.

Offspring will likly be influanced by tangerine.
A percent Hypo offspring will likly mature into Super hypo.
----
[2C]Enigma tangerine X [1C]Super hypo tangerine = .

[1C]Enigma.
[1CH,1CE]Hypo enigma.

Offspring will likly be influanced by tangerine.
A percent Hypo offspring will likly mature into Super hypo.
----
[2C]Enigma tangerine X [2C]Super hypo tangerine = .

[1CH,1CE]Hypo enigma.

Offspring will likly be influanced by tangerine.
A percent Hypo offspring will likly mature into Super hypo.
====

I will likly work out about 50%normal/50%Hi yellow from breeding a Hi yellow to a normal.But really a Hi yellow is just a pretty Normal so really you get 100%Normal.


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## GlasgowGecko (Feb 23, 2008)

If you are struggling with basic concepts, there will be an article on basic genetics in this months issue of Practical Reptile Keeping. It could be pretty useful for you.

Andy


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