# Advice please



## Bob'sMum

My old boy (about 60-65yrs) just doesn't seem to want to eat. We had him about 10yrs, he was found as a stray, in a fox's mouth. He is also not poo'ing or wee'ing. He's soaked twice a week, given salad leaves, dandelion leaves daily and the occasional slice of apple or tomato. I've got a heat lamp and just purchased a uv-b lamp on advice from another forum. Any suggestions gratefully received please


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> My old boy (about 60-65yrs) just doesn't seem to want to eat. We had him about 10yrs, he was found as a stray, in a fox's mouth. He is also not poo'ing or wee'ing. He's soaked twice a week, given salad leaves, dandelion leaves daily and the occasional slice of apple or tomato. I've got a heat lamp and just purchased a uv-b lamp on advice from another forum. Any suggestions gratefully received please


We need a little more info to be able to help:0)
What species is he?
How is he kept, inside or outside in the garden?
Has he been hibernated?
How long has he not been eating etc?
Apple and tomato are no no's even as a treat, as they can upset their gut flora:0)


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## Bob'sMum

He is a mediterranean spur thighed tortoise, we have never hibernated him as he's never shown any inclination. In the summer he goes outside daily but brought inside at night. He has a warming mat under his sleeping area, his substrate is made up of a mix of top soil and sand. He has cuttlefish, rocks to climb over, a clean unglazed ceramic tile to eat from and I soak him twice a week. In the winter he mostly stays indoors and he gets daily spervised exercise around the house with trips to bask in sunshine in my greenhouse whenever it is sunny. He's offered a daily variety of salad leaves and garden weeds (dandelion etc). He has heat and UVB lamps.


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> He is a mediterranean spur thighed tortoise, we have never hibernated him as he's never shown any inclination. In the summer he goes outside daily but brought inside at night. He has a warming mat under his sleeping area, his substrate is made up of a mix of top soil and sand. He has cuttlefish, rocks to climb over, a clean unglazed ceramic tile to eat from and I soak him twice a week. In the winter he mostly stays indoors and he gets daily spervised exercise around the house with trips to bask in sunshine in my greenhouse whenever it is sunny. He's offered a daily variety of salad leaves and garden weeds (dandelion etc). He has heat and UVB lamps.


If you can post a picture we can probably ID what species he is. As ibera, whitei, tunisian, and graecas are all spur thighs, it the common name for them, not what species they are:0)
Just to say heat matts under anywhere the tortoise is can be a danger for them, as if weakened they can give out shocks. And all tortoise warm from the top not the bottom. If you have to use a matt then along the side of the enclosure is far healthier and safer. Other than that things sound great.
I would say your tortoise does not show signs of wanting to hibernate as the heat matt will keep them too warm. Hibernation is actually part of their life cycle, and not doing so usually makes tortoises grow far to fast.
If you have a GH, is it heated?
As my ibera bury down in the GH soil for hibernation, and they can come and go from it. It might well be your tortoise is showing signs of wanting to hibernate, as the first signs are not eating, and slowing down, their body clocks are telling them this.
Has his behaviour been normal to other years this year?


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## Bob'sMum

Thank you for the advice on the heat mat, it's now up against the side of his sleeping area. I think tge addition of the UVB lamp is helping, he seems to be eating a little better but still no evidence if poo or pee. I've added some photos I believe he's a greek tortoise, he's a bit battered but he is 65 yrs old and he was found in the mouth of a fox.


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## Bob'sMum

He came across an old broken mirror I was storing by the shed till I could get it to the tip. His reaction was like he was fascinated with his reflection. No aggression, just curiousity.


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> He came across an old broken mirror I was storing by the shed till I could get it to the tip. His reaction was like he was fascinated with his reflection. No aggression, just curiousity.



The picture is not that clear, but possibly an ibera. 
Does he have a hard spur on the end of his tail?
If so he is possibly a hermans.
Is the tail long or short, as female tortoises tend to have shorter tails than males. Male tails tend to curl round too:0)


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## SueBoyle

C


Bob'sMum said:


> My old boy (about 60-65yrs) just doesn't seem to want to eat. We had him about 10yrs, he was found as a stray, in a fox's mouth. He is also not poo'ing or wee'ing. He's soaked twice a week, given salad leaves, dandelion leaves daily and the occasional slice of apple or tomato. I've got a heat lamp and just purchased a uv-b lamp on advice from another forum. Any suggestions gratefully received please


don’t take this the wrong way but he’s not getting the best husbandry for a tortoise. House roaming means incredibly low uv levels and lack of basking ability. He needs to heat his core and ambient temps aren’t doing this, which means any food he does eat isn’t being digested properly. I’d say 10 years is about how long it would take a middle aged tortoise to really get to rock bottom. He needs bright basking heat, substrate he can dig into to thermoregulate properly overnight and a permanent outdoor area. 
This is how I have kept mine for over 45 years www.tortsmad.com


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## Bob'sMum

SueBoyle said:


> C
> 
> 
> don’t take this the wrong way but he’s not getting the best husbandry for a tortoise. House roaming means incredibly low uv levels and lack of basking ability. He needs to heat his core and ambient temps aren’t doing this, which means any food he does eat isn’t being digested properly. I’d say 10 years is about how long it would take a middle aged tortoise to really get to rock bottom. He needs bright basking heat, substrate he can dig into to thermoregulate properly overnight and a permanent outdoor area.
> This is how I have kept mine for over 45 years www.tortsmad.com


He only house roams (for a supervised time) in the winter, for exercise, as it's too cold outside. He does get a stint in my greenhouse when it's sunny. Summertime he's outdoors all day. He has heat and UVB lamps and substrate to dig into and a cooler sleeping area.


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> He only house roams (for a supervised time) in the winter, for exercise, as it's too cold outside. He does get a stint in my greenhouse when it's sunny. Summertime he's outdoors all day. He has heat and UVB lamps and substrate to dig into and a cooler sleeping area.



Even supervised roams is not good for any tortoise. They can pick up things we can not see such as hairs. Which is not good for them. 
Is there a reason you dont hibernate him?
As this is the best for him, as its what they do naturally:0)
Do you have an outside pen for him, so he can be outside 24/7?
Again this is more natural for him:0)


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## Bob'sMum

Thank you for your thoughts, but I live in UK and I've been advised by a vet that outside in winter will be too cold for him.


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> Thank you for your thoughts, but I live in UK and I've been advised by a vet that outside in winter will be too cold for him.


Sorry I didnt mean during the Winter months:0)
I am in the UK too, and would not dream of putting my tortoise outside in the cold. 
So far this Autumn we have had some really sunny days and it has been quite warm (well here in the SE) so is possible. But mine are now all ready for hibernation, one already gone down.
I hibernate my tortoises and have done for over 45yrs. 
Is there a reason for keeping him up during the Winter?
If he is warmed up, and we have a sunny day, you could put him out for a while, he will tell you if its too cold, but not moving. So far this Autumn we have had some really sunny days and it has been quite warm (well here in the SE) so is possible. But mine are now all ready for hibernation, one already gone down.


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## Bob'sMum

I'm very nervous of hibernating him, he's never done it while I've had him (10 yrs) and I don't know how to. How do I learn? He was found on a roundabout in Camden, in a fox's mouth so took a few years for his shell to heal and our vet advised against it for the first few years as he wasn't in good shape. Since getting him a new UVB lamp and trying some new foods he's now eating better. He even peed/poo'd yesterday, I was ridiculously happy! He was out in the garden with me today, I take him outside whenever it's sunny for a bask. He likes the doorway of my greenhouse, its draught free and full sun for an hour. I'm also in the S.E., Hertfordshire.


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## purplepixie

Bob'sMum said:


> I'm very nervous of hibernating him, he's never done it while I've had him (10 yrs) and I don't know how to. How do I learn? He was found on a roundabout in Camden, in a fox's mouth so took a few years for his shell to heal and our vet advised against it for the first few years as he wasn't in good shape. Since getting him a new UVB lamp and trying some new foods he's now eating better. He even peed/poo'd yesterday, I was ridiculously happy! He was out in the garden with me today, I take him outside whenever it's sunny for a bask. He likes the doorway of my greenhouse, its draught free and full sun for an hour. I'm also in the S.E., Hertfordshire.



Hibernation can seem scary, but when you have done it the first time its a doddle. I live in Kent.
When you windown a tortoise, firstly you watch the health and behaviour during the Summer months, if all is normal then windown can be done. 
Week one, normal heat and water, but NO FOOD.
Week two, gradually reduce the heat and light by an hour each end of the day through the week. Have water available if needed, NO FOOD.
Week three, continue reducing the heat and light by an hour each end of the day through the week. Water available, NO FOOD.
By week four he should be lethargic and sleeping more. And there should be no more heat or light. And NO FOOD.
This should be done in a cold room, or a room without central heating on.
There are three ways of hibernation, one is to box up, two fridge hibernation and lastly letting them dig down in the soil in a GH. I hibernated mine the box way for around 15yrs the rest has been letting them dig down in my GH soil.
I would personally continue this year as you have been but seriously think about hibernation. And research as much as you can to see what would suit you and him.. If you go to www.tortoises.net you will find a great booklet with all the info you need. Which was written by someone who has done a lot of fieldwork in the wild with tortoises:0) And has a lot of useful info:0)


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## LJSW1982

Bob'sMum said:


> He only house roams (for a supervised time) in the winter, for exercise, as it's too cold outside. He does get a stint in my greenhouse when it's sunny. Summertime he's outdoors all day. He has heat and UVB lamps and substrate to dig into and a cooler sleeping area.


I agree, he should not be roaming, but a bigger issue is the use if any sand in his substrate. Its not appropriate for any tortoise as if ingested effectively lines their stomach and intestines in a sludge like fashion. This can cause them to become impacted and not feel hunger which would slow eating and defecating.


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## Shellsfeathers&fur

LJSW1982 said:


> I agree, he should not be roaming, but a bigger issue is the use if any sand in his substrate. Its not appropriate for any tortoise as if ingested effectively lines their stomach and intestines in a sludge like fashion. This can cause them to become impacted and not feel hunger which would slow eating and defecating.


Do you keep tortoises?


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## SueBoyle

LJSW1982 said:


> I agree, he should not be roaming, but a bigger issue is the use if any sand in his substrate. Its not appropriate for any tortoise as if ingested effectively lines their stomach and intestines in a sludge like fashion. This can cause them to become impacted and not feel hunger which would slow eating and defecating.


My tortoise greenhouse substrate is a mix of soil and sand, just like natural habitats. I’m a little concerned by your replies to be honest. Have you seen the natural terrain of the horsfield tortoise? They live in sandy burrows.


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## SueBoyle

SueBoyle said:


> My tortoise greenhouse substrate is a mix of soil and sand, just like natural habitats. I’m a little concerned by your replies to be honest. Have you seen the natural terrain of the horsfield tortoise? They live in sandy burrows.


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