# Antaresia genus



## Swindinian

Hey all,

Question for the forum on Antaresia.

Am looking to get some 'Spotties' and wondered if there were any distinguishing features to look out for.

Want to avoid hybridised. No desire to covet high end/rarity.

I like the versions with distinct spotting, so less keen on childreni if they lose the patterning.

I have seen similar looking pythons sold as Childrens, and Stimsons (mis labelled?).

I have seen some massive variation in pricing.

I gather Stimsons less likely to be in the mix but people have crossed Childreni and maculosa?

Any distinguishing features between Cape York spotties and standard spotties, other than locality claim/price?

Any pointers appreciated,

Andy


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## Roseanna

Swindinian said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Question for the forum on Antaresia.
> 
> Am looking to get some 'Spotties' and wondered if there were any distinguishing features to look out for.
> 
> Want to avoid hybridised. No desire to covet high end/rarity.
> 
> I like the versions with distinct spotting, so less keen on childreni if they lose the patterning.
> 
> I have seen similar looking pythons sold as Childrens, and Stimsons (mis labelled?).
> 
> I have seen some massive variation in pricing.
> 
> I gather Stimsons less likely to be in the mix but people have crossed Childreni and maculosa?
> 
> Any distinguishing features between Cape York spotties and standard spotties, other than locality claim/price?
> 
> Any pointers appreciated,
> 
> Andy


I miss Antaresia 


I used to keep spotteds, Wonderful species of snake & I've been so tempted to get one again! 


This is going back a few years now but I looked in to breeding spotteds and also wanted to make sure my maculosa were pure and not hybridised. From what I remember, people advised it's difficult to be sure they have never been cross bred as the gene pool is so muddied from people mixing childreni with maculosa. There was a useful chart which showed the scalation count of spotteds, childrens, stimsons, anthills and hybrids etc - I'll try dig it out for you but can't promise i'll find it as it was such a long time ago 


Spotteds do generally keep there spots into adulthood and they get much larger than children pythons but the problem is they all seem to look so similar as hatchlings!


I highly recommend registering on an Australian forum & seeking out there advice, they will definitely be able to advise and help you to distinguish between the different species (please share the info with us too, i'm curious lol)


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## danl

I keep both childreni and maculosa, spotted are larger and have vaguely irregular markings which stand out from the background colour. Childrens have a more muted pattern and a slightly reddish colour. Side by side they are chalk and cheese. I will try to put up a few photos later after work.


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## Swindinian

Thank you Roseanna & Danl, appreciate the input 

Looking forward to hopefully get some very soon.

Can anyone suggest good Oz forums to join?

I get the impression many people gravitate towards BookFace; alas I am not a big fan, so am missing out most probably.

As Aussie breeding is pretty much separated from European breeding (not sure how long ago they had the export ban?) could we have created a different mess of hybrids/integrates from Aussie captive stock?


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## danl

I was hoping to take a few side by side but 3 of my animals are in deep shed plus the daylight is just about gone by the time I'm home from work. So here are a couple of pictures from earlier in the summer, not the best but I think they demonstrate the differences well enough. Also the loreal scales are often cited as a distinguishing character, difficult to see from the angle but my male childrens' below has 8 and the male spotted below has 5, same for my females of both. Both are lovely species, I personally find the spotted to be a bit more lively and quicker to respond to food. I have seen the odd hybrid for sale but usually they stand out as too big for childreni and the patterning being sort of like a muted spotted, this is adults though. 

I haven't seen a genuine stimsons for years, large blotch python is a another name for them and it does suit them well. The blotches are larger and more regular than spotted's and they have a sort of white stripe on the sides from the neck down. They are more similar to childrens' in terms of size too.


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## Swindinian

Well I did get some Ants in the end (Antaresia, not Anthill!)

Started with a pair from John (Shaw?) from Romsey.

Started out biting and pooping on initial inspection/collection.
But calmed down quickly, and were quite handleable for a while.

Then, my son threw a dirty sock at me and it spooked the female as it bounced near her 🤬. There after she was more defensive and I was bitten a couple of times, constricted a couple, but now seems to be mellowing again.
Named this girl ‘Bramble‘, after her prickly spell, she is lovely 🥰


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

This is Willow. Produced by Tom Middlebrook, tho I got her from Tariq the vet. She is nervous, flighty, doesn’t like being handled, but never bites. Initially drop feeding only, she is now enthusiastic about taking from tongs.


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

This is Holly. Produced by Derren Woodruff. Holly is a spicy madam and has bitten and constricted me a fair few times. She once held me for 40 minutes, before finally reconsidering her ambitions. I have tried hook training with her, and I think she has accepted that not all interactions are meal related. 😂
I love the plucky attitude of the Ants, but so far in my small group, it seemed to be 2 females which tried to be most assertive.


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## Swindinian

Holly’s pastimes include smearing her excretions across all possible surfaces! Perhaps Picasso might have been apt. 
They are an active species, and whilst acknowledging an upgrade from quarantine to 3 foot viv is overdue (and this could reduce likelihood of her tracing through her poop), I like to think she does it deliberately 🤭


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## Swindinian

This is Podrick, sibling to Holly.
Come to investigate the camera. Never tried to constrict me 🤔


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

I have a soft spot for this sibling of Bramble. He reminded me of a European adder with the bright orange eyes, so as a leap, I named him Baldrick 😳
He is inquisitive and gentle (except during meal time).


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

It may not show in the photo, but he damaged his scales and soft tissue around his head. 
He tried to push through a poorly cut vent hole. Entirely my fault, which I felt v bad about; endeavour not to be repeated!
Fortunately, he did not sustain any infection, he later shed and seems to have recovered.
I did observe what looked like blood clot stains on the shed skin, and actual skin not fully covered by the new scales.


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## Swindinian

Not part of the plan, but I did end up adding an Ant species this year.
Antaresia childreni (stimsoni orientalis) Eastern stimsons python. Produced by Tariq Abou-Zahr.


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## Swindinian

Discussion earlier about scale counts defining how a given Ant is attributed to which species.
Got the Complete Childrens python book


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## Swindinian

This will presumably be changed, if the grouping of Stimson into Childreni is widely accepted, however, I hope they keep some regional variant status.


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

Swindinian said:


> View attachment 355952


Also an interesting presentation by Justin Julander, hosted on Triple B TV


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## wilkinss77

Just got a spotted python today- a male yearling. He ate a pink only an hour after housing him- he strike fed from my hand too, despite being drop fed in the shop.


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## Swindinian

wilkinss77 said:


> Just got a spotted python today- a male yearling. He ate a pink only an hour after housing him- he strike fed from my hand too, despite being drop fed in the shop.


Truly a cracking genus, am sure you’ll enjoy him immensely!


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## arwen_7

Very pretty snakes. I love their eyes, they look very inquisitive.


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## Swindinian

arwen_7 said:


> Very pretty snakes. I love their eyes, they look very inquisitive.


Definitely agree. I think they often are confident and inquisitive


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## Swindinian

She came up to sit on me


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## wilkinss77

Swindinian said:


> Truly a cracking genus, am sure you’ll enjoy him immensely!


Fed Lee the python (after the band Python Lee Jackson) a fluff this morning. He'd been on pinks in the shop, but I thought he looked like he could manage a fluff, judging by his body width. It took him a while to swallow it, not helped by him grabbing it arse first! But he eventually got it down & then promptly retired to his hide.


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## Swindinian

wilkinss77 said:


> Fed Lee the python (after the band Python Lee Jackson) a fluff this morning. He'd been on pinks in the shop, but I thought he looked like he could manage a fluff, judging by his body width. It took him a while to swallow it, not helped by him grabbing it arse first! But he eventually got it down & then promptly retired to his hide.


😁
Will you be sharing any photos of Lee?


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## wilkinss77

Swindinian said:


> 😁
> Will you be sharing any photos of Lee?


I will when he's out. He's usually in his hide, as I don't think he's settled properly yet.


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## Swindinian

wilkinss77 said:


> I will when he's out. He's usually in his hide, as I don't think he's settled properly yet.


look forward to it.
Mine are often prowling of an evening, but then I am tending to feed them approx 12-14 days, and are tending towards being rather lean more often than not. In no rush to get them to maturity, and hope my approach will increase their longevity. . .


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## mooselee

Right! That does it!!!! 

I've been considering Ants for a while now. This thread has now made it my number one priority to obtain one at the earliest opportunity.


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## Swindinian

mooselee said:


> Right! That does it!!!!
> 
> I've been considering Ants for a while now. This thread has now made it my number one priority to obtain one at the earliest opportunity.


Haha, am sure you’ll enjoy yours when you get one, and cheaper than a super dwarf retic!

Lovely little genus, and the spotted maculosa are affordable at £65 - £150. 

Doubt I’ll ever get to look after Wheatbelt Stimmies at £2K, unless their prevalence and price comes down a lot more.

Expect to be entertained, and possibly challenged at times, fantastic little snakes 😁


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## Swindinian

Another pic of Eastern Stimsons neonate (Antaresia childreni ‘stimsoni orientalis’), waiting to be fed 😁


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## Swindinian




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## wilkinss77

Swindinian said:


> 😁
> Will you be sharing any photos of Lee?











Eating a fluff.


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## Swindinian

They often have a great appetite 😁

There seems to be such contrast of visual phenotypes within the species and the genus; am still early stages of getting to recognise which is which.

Would you say yours in the flesh has quite a reduced looking pattern, almost childreni-like? 

I understand maculosa can get larger than the childreni/stimsoni species, and childreni can have a reduced pattern or even lose the pattern into adulthood.

I read that there may be a difference between southern and northern maculosa with southern having a finer spotting and northern having larger more defined spotted patches. . . . not sure whether that is still current thinking?


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## wilkinss77

Swindinian said:


> They often have a great appetite 😁
> 
> There seems to be such contrast of visual phenotypes within the species and the genus; am still early stages of getting to recognise which is which.
> 
> Would you say yours in the flesh has quite a reduced looking pattern, almost childreni-like?
> 
> I understand maculosa can get larger than the childreni/stimsoni species, and childreni can have a reduced pattern or even lose the pattern into adulthood.
> 
> I read that there may be a difference between southern and northern maculosa with southern having a finer spotting and northern having larger more defined spotted patches. . . . not sure whether that is still current thinking?


Lee was sold to me as a maculosa & as a spotted python rather than a Children's.


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## Swindinian

This time a close up of my male Eastern Stimsons
Antaresia childreni ‘stimsoni orientalis’


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

Great feeders


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## Swindinian

Tidy cuddle


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## Swindinian

Definitely semi arboreal
‘stimsoni orientalis’


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## Swindinian

Ant mac


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## Swindinian

Peekaboo with Baldrick. During spot cleaning, he nearly always comes out to taste what is going on 😁


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## Swindinian

Can just about make out the residual scale imperfections behind the orbit, where he tried to push through a badly shaped vent hole.


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

Fairly recent pic of CB21 male Antaresia (childreni) ‘stimsoni orientalis’, post shed.


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## Swindinian




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## Swindinian

This is Bramble. She is one of my spotted pythons. Well overdue to move into a 3 ft viv (really hoping I find time this Easter!!!!)
Cracking genus.
Antaresia maculosa


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## Swindinian

Bramble again 😁


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## Swindinian

Exciting news from DMExotics in USA (via Dan in Thailand)

Progress with Antaresia papuensis!






Congrats to Dan’s Mum for her TLC


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## Swindinian

Podric, spotted python, easily settled into his new digs, and showing he was happy to take a meal and give it a cuddle


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## Swindinian

Holly also Showing some climbing tendencies, although she was in a low hide just prior to meal time


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## Swindinian

Baldrick, Ant Mac, just shed.
Colour pattern is much darker than some spotted pythons, and varies in the light.


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## Swindinian

There is some iridescence, but the camera doesn’t show it.


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## Swindinian

Recent pic of Ant stimsoni orientalis, produced by Tariq Abou-Zahr (I believed the line was originally from Justin Julander in the states?).
Female CB21.
Pattern is somewhat faded out, more typical of the childreni.
However, the male brother has much more prominent pattern.
Not seen enough orientalis to know what is more typical.


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## Swindinian

Of the neonate Ants I have viewed, they seem to have a curious position of the eyes in the orbit (presumably they need to be able to look vertically for predators overhead?).
Sometimes the bug eyes and pupil dilations can make for some pretty comical expressions.


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## Morphman

A truly fascinating genus of python to be working with. I love how inquisitive they are. Just took these of one of mine after she shed last night.


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## Swindinian

Wheatbelt! Very very nice. I don’t tend to spend that much on animals, but certainly appreciate them 🥰


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## Swindinian

I dared to handle my Stimmies this evening. Also known as Velcro mouths 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Absolutely no chomping on me, I was almost disappointed.


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## Swindinian

There was a hint of a reddish undertone in the hatchlings, which seems to have reduced, though the colour and pattern does seem to vary over 24 hrs.


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## Swindinian

Another pic of Willow


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## Swindinian

Another peek of the Papuan shared by DMExotics 🥰


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## mooselee

Here's Spot. I've had him 3 weeks now. He hasn't missed a feed yet. ☺


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## Swindinian

Came across another YouTube video

Show casing some childreni and stimsons ‘dirt snakes’


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## mooselee

Swindinian said:


> Came across another YouTube video
> 
> Show casing some childreni and stimsons ‘dirt snakes’


Some amazing Ants there. I've never heard them referred to as dirt snakes before though.


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## Swindinian

Recent pic of Willow in pre shed


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## mooselee

Couple of pics of Spot feeding this afternoon. 7/8 feeds since I got him off Tom. Only missed one when he was in shed.


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## LiasisUK

Good to see snakes I bred doing well! 

You guys both need some Cape Yorks now


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## mooselee

I whole-heartedly agree.


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## Swindinian

LiasisUK said:


> Good to see snakes I bred doing well!
> 
> You guys both need some Cape Yorks now


🤣🤣🤣
Tom, It took a lot of restraint the last few years NOT to buy mac pairs from you.

I think Antaresia are just such a fab genus.

I am currently making compromises at home, so my family (wife & kids) can share more of the house 🤦🏻🤷🏻‍♂️


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## NickN

This reminded me I needed to post a more recent photo of mine...


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## mooselee

A couple more from this weeks feed. Makes me happy.


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## LiasisUK

Very nice guys, I picked up some childreni recently along with another Spotted to add to my breeding group in future. Quite exciting as it's the result of breeding a wild animal that was found in a suitcase at Heathrow off a flight from Australia. Can't get much more unrelated than that!

Also upgraded my granite spotteds over the weekend, they're looking big enough to go this coming season, which is great!

One of the new childreni


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## Swindinian

LiasisUK said:


> Very nice guys, I picked up some childreni recently along with another Spotted to add to my breeding group in future. Quite exciting as it's the result of breeding a wild animal that was found in a suitcase at Heathrow off a flight from Australia. Can't get much more unrelated than that!
> 
> Also upgraded my granite spotteds over the weekend, they're looking big enough to go this coming season, which is great!
> 
> One of the new childreni


Ah, the Heathrow luggage sire from S. Wales? Nice!

I have been having fun with Macs.

One of them, Holly, has escaped 3 times, and day after feeding night I was spot cleaning and she tagged me, greedy beggar. She is a right handful, but a great display snake, not shy 😁

Finally resorted to a twisted paper clip to secure the glass panes, backed up with 2 rubber wedges. I did have a metal lock, but old style Vivexotic, and the spacing was just too tight for the lock, I thought it might shear off the plastic runners.
I guess if I replace the runners for wider ones, I could go back to metal locks, which would be much preferred.


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## Swindinian

This is the madam


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## LiasisUK

Swindinian said:


> Ah, the Heathrow luggage sire from S. Wales? Nice!



That's the one. I think I will breed it into my granite animals, as the granite line, being recessive, is possibly a little inbred.


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## Thrasops

I used to keep quite a few python species prior to 2010 but oddly I had never kept any _Antaresia _- and always wanted to. I was gifted this fellow in 2019 by my friend Teddie Simler as he was a bit of a handful and rather defensive (striking at anything that moved beyond the glass). This habit disappeared after a few months with me, I am unsure if it was the larger enclosure, being kept in a lower traffic room or more security that did it.

Just another 'dull brown snake' but extremely personable and enjoyable to keep.


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## mooselee

Spot has a new favourite, well, errr....spot.


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## NickN

My Cape York going from strength to strength now that he's eating reliably, growing fast too. Absolutely hilarious the way he fixates on my face when I go to open the viv, and stealthily slithers towards me hoping to ambush the Big Pink Object.
I reckon he's just a greedy guts and always after food these days.


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## mooselee

Sorry for the spam but I love him.


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## Swindinian

Swindinian said:


> I have been having fun with Macs.
> 
> One of them, Holly, has escaped 3 times, and day after feeding night I was spot cleaning and she tagged me, greedy beggar. She is a right handful, but a great display snake, not shy 😁
> 
> Finally resorted to a twisted paper clip to secure the glass panes, backed up with 2 rubber wedges. I did have a metal lock, but old style Vivexotic, and the spacing was just too tight for the lock, I thought it might shear off the plastic runners.
> I guess if I replace the runners for wider ones, I could go back to metal locks, which would be much preferred.


Holly is in a 3 foot viv, but am wanting to move her to a 4 foot viv, as She would prefer to free roam the whole room.
Pic of this evening. Any opportunity and she wants out.


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## Swindinian

She is just a bit too slender and sneaky to let free roam in the room ☹


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## NickN

I think this species must have ants in their pants, pun intended.
Mine is so similar, first sign of The Human outside his viv and he's straight over to the glass wanting out. That's despite a 4ft by 2ft viv with branches etc. 🤣


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## Swindinian

Does your Ant ever try to disguise itself?

Ceiling mounted lighting with cord switch


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## Swindinian

A fairly recent pic of my A. Stimsoni orientalis. Both having their pattern looking fairly faded.


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## Swindinian

Dan from DMExotics has posted another video which includes his Papuensis ants 😁






Some screenshots, but check out his video for better viewing.

Amazes me how much the colour varies


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## LiasisUK

They're very nice. I hope some make their way over to EU/UK at some point.


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## Swindinian

How many snakes do you know of who actually stick their tail inside the light guard?

This is Holly. 

She is a rascal, and this is not the first time she has stuck her prehensile tail into the guard. Good job I am not using a CHE 🙈


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## Swindinian




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## Thrasops

Swindinian said:


> How many snakes do you know of who actually stick their tail inside the light guard?
> 
> This is Holly.
> 
> She is a rascal, and this is not the first time she has stuck her prehensile tail into the guard. Good job I am not using a CHE 🙈
> 
> View attachment 369331


A lot of light guards make me very nervous with snakes. A friend of mine had a _Philodryas_ wedge its head into one, get caught and literally burn to death two years ago. Definitely a potential danger for smaller snakes if the mesh is too wide. And even with lizards, I get nervous if they climb up onto the guard cage. Obviously with CHEs it is a necessity as contact can cause an instant burn but I no longer use them with the lower wattage halogens.


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## Swindinian

Thrasops said:


> A lot of light guards make me very nervous with snakes. A friend of mine had a _Philodryas_ wedge its head into one, get caught and literally burn to death two years ago. Definitely a potential danger for smaller snakes if the mesh is too wide. And even with lizards, I get nervous if they climb up onto the guard cage. Obviously with CHEs it is a necessity as contact can cause an instant burn but I no longer use them with the lower wattage halogens.


HI Francis, 
Yes I took note of your insights shared on the recent rat snake review (thank you for such an enjoyable deep dive!).

My preferred guard is from Komodo. They are easier to unhook to access the bulb, they do have a larger mesh gap diameter than some brands, and a potential issue around the top, so they are absolutely not recommended for small snakes, and I heard of hatchlings climbing up and inside the cage and then baking 😔
I also use DHPs, especially for the rainbow boas and would never not use a guard for those as they get so hot.
I gather rainbow boas often bask when they are gravid, and heard of a couple of instances, where they clung to a heat guard and have actually broken it (I suspect CHE were the heat source in both cases).

I do rub my palms across each guard to check they don’t have wire ends projecting. The worst manufacturing I found was with White Python, which had serrated edging.

Holly regularly climbs and wraps around the guard, occasionally slips and falls off. Last night during feeding, I also noticed some ventral scales were scuffed up, presumably from abrasions with the metal guard……. I expect she will repair with the next shed, but perhaps I should consider a lower wattage halogen, without a guard.
She is very active, possibly restless even, and I had considered she might like it a bit cooler, which a lower wattage halogen would allow for.


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## Swindinian

Variation between spotted pythons.
This is what I thought maculosa typically looked like.
Small spots, freckling pattern and darker base colour.
Baldrick








Bramble









Whereas my others have larger blotching pattern and generally lighter base colour

Willow









Possibly the other male, Podric









Holly


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## Elly66

Love the colouring of Willow 😍
Interested to know their husbandry needs and recommend viv size 😁


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## Swindinian

Elly66 said:


> Love the colouring of Willow 😍
> Interested to know their husbandry needs and recommend viv size 😁


Thank you Elly66,
Yes, Willow is a sweetie. She has a very light base colour and the large blotching is almost striped. She is a bit more nervous than most of my Ants, but has never struck at me, and always does lots of tongue flicking before striking at food, like she wants to make sure before committing.


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## Morphman

little male childreni growing away nicely but so small.


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## Swindinian

Morphman said:


> View attachment 369780
> little male childreni growing away nicely but so small.


I presume this is a T+ albino childreni?
Another expensive little noodle!
Not a fan of red/pink eyes - those look nice!


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## Morphman

Swindinian said:


> I presume this is a T+ albino childreni?
> Another expensive little noodle!
> Not a fan of red/pink eyes - those look nice!


Yes T+, I'm with you on the red/pink eyes. Much prefer the coloured iris, thanks!


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## LiasisUK

Picked up some new Antaresia last week.

Some Antaresia sp. 'Pygmy Banded', a currently unclassified species, that I believe was previously considered a locality of stimsoni exhibiting a very small adult size, some individuals max out at a smaller size than perthensis but on average perthensis are smaller. I believe these are due to be named soon.









I also got my dream Antaresia that I have wanted for years, picked up a pair of Wheatbelt stimsoni. They're excellent, the pics do not do them justice


















I also got some 'unrelated' childreni, but not the T+ ones. Those are very nice 

Planning my pairings for next year and I'm going to attempt to breed my granite maculosa as they look to be up to size


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## Morphman

Very nice pick ups there you really can't beat a Wheatbelt !


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## Swindinian

Cute little bundle, when she is asleep.
Holly basking under the halogen daytime.


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## Swindinian

Disturbed her snoozing, and didn’t take her long to consider sizing me up 😂🤣😂🤣
She let me change the water without pursuing me, so that good behaviour for her 😁


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## Swindinian

Podric is not quite as switched on as his sister, Holly. Here he is playing king of the castle. He smells mouse, was looking at the halogen lamp and turned to me. Have actually put the mouse in the cave beneath him.









He found it about forty minutes later and has been hugging it for the last 30 minutes.


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