# Shyness of dart frogs



## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

I currently have a trio of azzies and their far from shy, their always up at the glass, and even try to jump onto my hand when feeding them, but i've just bought a big setup with a trio of breeding black and green Dendrobates auratus, the previous owner had the setup in a frog room, which obviously didn't see much people or everyday noise.
I was warned that they may go shy and hide away for a while due them now being in my living room.
I've had them 2 days now and have yet to see them out.
Is this normal due to the move?
or this is going to be how it stays knowing my living room is more lively than a frog room?
here is the setup....


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Don't be surprised if you hardly ever see them auratus are shy frogs. Low lighting levels tends to help.


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

fatlad69 said:


> Don't be surprised if you hardly ever see them auratus are shy frogs. Low lighting levels tends to help.


previous owner did say that when they were in his frog room, they we're out a fair amount, but he did say i might not see them for a while until they get used to their new surroundings.
I'm not expecting them to be out like my azzies but wondered if i'll ever get to see them at the front of the setup after some time.
i did read up to see if these we're shy and i got mixed reviews on them, some said their very bold and some said very shy.


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

you may see them more if you had leaf litter in there. 

Nice looking frogs


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

You will want to provide a LOT more cover than in that photo as well, if you want to see them reasonably often. There just isn't a comparison between Azureas and Auratus, even bolder morphs of auratus are quite shy in comparison to shy tinctorius morphs. 

So yeah, reduced lighting, with plenty of shaded spots, and a LOT of cover, and I mean a LOT! I keep on of the most infamous morphs of auratus for been shy, the Ancon Hill morph, and Adam will tell you I see them fairly often, especially at feeding time. This is thanks to reduced lighting and HEAVY planting and cover. I'll get you a photo of my Ancon Hill viv in a moment to give you a better idea of what I mean.

Oh and just to illustrate how completely normal this is, I recently obtained 3 Columbian Auratus froglets, one of the 'bolder' morphs. They hide, constantly, and this is in a heavily planted viv with tons of cover. Once they settle (which if my Ancon Hill are anything to go by could take 12 months. lol) I will see more of them, until then it's just a matter of patience.

The shyness though is why Stu, myself and others don't recommend auratus to newbies. Lots of guides list them as good starting darts, but fail to mention you wont see them for ages. lol

Ade


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

plasma234 said:


> you may see them more if you had leaf litter in there.
> 
> Nice looking frogs


yeah i thought about that, but these are 4 years old now, and have breeding alot recently, so didn't want to change the setup to much.
also there is moss growing all over the floor so didnt want to cover it all up.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

Moss is 100% for the keeper, 0% for the frogs. It doesn't provide hiding place and it doesn't give soil inverts somewhere to multiply, or the frogs somewhere to browse for food. It's there entirely to please the keepers eye. Nothing wrong with this, but there's no reason you can't have nice deep areas of leaf litter, or even plant cover, to go with the moss for the sake of the frogs. 

Ade


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

Heart4Darts said:


> yeah i thought about that, but these are 4 years old now, and have breeding alot recently, so didn't want to change the setup to much.
> also there is moss growing all over the floor so didnt want to cover it all up.


From the picture (i know this isn't always reliable) it looks like there is a circle of moss in the center and the rest is the substrate. IMO that seems like a feeding "station" and the rest of the floor had (or should have) leaf litter. but that is going by the picture. You never now if the keeper you bought from took the leaf litter (i don't know why) and took the coco huts as well. Again this is all speculation and they might just need some time to become accustomed to the new viv setting.


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

The big piece of wood at the back, as alot of space behind, i have yet to even look behind it, im sure i see a coconut hide behind there yesterday when i tried to have a quick look without disturbing them,
so do you think leaf litter all over the tank would be ok, or should i just cover the back half in leaf litter and some more hides?


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 2, 2010)

I try to avoid feeding on moss, supplements tend to kill it. I try to feed either onto bare wood or leaf litter so as not to kill moss, or pop something in the middle of the moss to feed onto so you don't tip supplement onto the actual moss. : victory:

Anyway, here as promised are my 2 auratus vivs. Both are 40cm cubes as the 2 morphs I keep are smaller morphs.

First up, my Ancon Hill viv:-










I tip flies onto the top of the hut in this viv, which brings the frogs out nicely where I can watch them feed.

Then there is my Columbian viv, no room for leaf litter in this one. :lol2: This was taken after a VERY heavy pruning session:-










Now you see what I mean about serious cover. The Ancon Hill viv is lit by T5HOs with part of the top covered with black fablon to block the light. The Columbian viv is lit with LED matrix panels, and Columbians aren't supposed to be nearly as shy as Ancon Hill are.

Hope this helps. All the same though, will still be a while before you start seeing more of your auratus, even with more cover etc. In comparison though, in my opinion the viv you have is seriously spartan for an auratus viv, and likely to never bring them out as much as they could be.

Ade


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## plasma234 (Feb 27, 2013)

I think is recommended that on top of the substrate goes 1-2" of leaf litter. Oak leaves can be collected (your call) or purchased from dartfrog. Depending if you can see any or not, I would think about re seeding it with isos and springs, once the leaf litter is in.

edit: Ade got in there first, and much more impressively.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Wolfenrook said:


> I try to avoid feeding on moss, supplements tend to kill it. I try to feed either onto bare wood or leaf litter so as not to kill moss, or pop something in the middle of the moss to feed onto so you don't tip supplement onto the actual moss. : victory:
> 
> Anyway, here as promised are my 2 auratus vivs. Both are 40cm cubes as the 2 morphs I keep are smaller morphs.
> 
> ...


Even after all that pruning me and Ade couldn't find the frogs. Eventually we saw them hiding right in the corner.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Auratus are shy no doubt,I think the rep of them being good for beginners comes from their hardiness,I know some folks have had problems though ,but for us they have been rock solid with the 2 morphs week keep. There is no doubt in my mind that they have a larger escape distance than other frogs and will rarely be bold like a tinc.the info that you have been given about lower light leaflitter and a multitude of hiding places is exactly what i would advocate too.
personally I wouldn't put new auratus in a viv,but I would QT them in a tub with loads of hiding places and leaf litter ,its just so much easier to monitor them.

Anyway hearts what I really wanted to write beyond all this is just give them time,it will slowly come,it might take months and many can't wait that long,but it's worth it,they are simply some or the most stunning darts out there,nothing does the metallic blues and greens like auratus do,oh a side note to the leaflitter is the colours seem to "show" abit better against brown .
A move is a big thing and they will take time to settle,but they will settle and become ever more bold with it,

Stu


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

Cheers mate, I'm going to get some leaf litter and chuck it all over the tank, put a few more hides in there and then leave them alone to settle for a few weeks/months and see if they become a bit more bold.
Not for 1 minute do i not like the fact their always hidden away, I just wondered if they we're naturally shy.
but thanks a lot guys :2thumb:


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Aurtus are one of those species in that the heavier you plant their tank the more likely you are to see them. Get that leaf litter in there fella and maybe add a couple more plants but my biggest tip would be if you haven't seen them in a while don't assume they've snuffed it and go digging around for them. It's something a lot of folk do and it will just stress them out. They'll pop up sooner or later .


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## Heart4Darts (Oct 10, 2009)

ronnyjodes said:


> Aurtus are one of those species in that the heavier you plant their tank the more likely you are to see them. Get that leaf litter in there fella and maybe add a couple more plants but my biggest tip would be if you haven't seen them in a while don't assume they've snuffed it and go digging around for them. It's something a lot of folk do and it will just stress them out. They'll pop up sooner or later .


Not sure what other plants to put in, the plants in there at the moment are all spreading. To be honest it is fairly packed in there, and they do have alot of hides, just not sure what to do, as their used to what their in now.


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

Heart4Darts said:


> Not sure what other plants to put in, the plants in there at the moment are all spreading. To be honest it is fairly packed in there, and they do have alot of hides, just not sure what to do, as their used to what their in now.


Plant a ficus to grow up the back, it will also bush to provide hiding spots.


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## ronnyjodes (Apr 29, 2011)

Heart4Darts said:


> Not sure what other plants to put in, the plants in there at the moment are all spreading. To be honest it is fairly packed in there, and they do have alot of hides, just not sure what to do, as their used to what their in now.


Tbh, it really isn't that packed based on that pic. Take a leaf (literally) from Ades tanks- fittonia is a great plant for ground coverage, some small ferns are always a feature in my tanks, some earth stars would work well, you've got a big space in the background that you could utilise, ficus pumila would give some nice coverage on the back. If I had that tank and about 50 quid to spend on plants it'd be seriously packed .


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## fatlad69 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have 16 plants in my 60x45x60 exo terra. Yes they need to grow in but when they do it will be packed and the darts will love it. The chances are some of the plants won't make it but if you plant heavy to begin with it won't matter.


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