# Darts, why the toe flicking and throat vibratig



## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

My young dart frogs flick there rear toe and there throats vibrate really fast , not all the time , but now and then ,do we know why .


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

the toe flicking by all accounts is when they are excited/intrigued. i notice it more when they are hunting for flies or are feeding


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

What he says ^^^^^ : victory:



Mike


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## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

is the throat vibrating for the same reasons, it's not calling there far to young , think I've seen lizards no this as well.


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

All frogs do it so don`t be losing sleep over it.


Mike


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> the toe flicking by all accounts is when they are excited/intrigued. i notice it more when they are hunting for flies or are feeding


Always pondered this might be a mechanism to make a tiny prey item move Joe. But your explanation is def as good as mine.

Gav,dependent on species,'erm tincs instantly spring to mind,some kids will get so wound up they will visibly shake(vibrate more noticable around the head). 

I'm somewhat bad,I talk to them and they know Shaz is going to dump flies on them:blush: One can see them getting more and more excited the movements change too,all staring up tip toes on front legs small hops plus the vibration. It's probably against the law to talk to darts so best not go there:whistling2: ,but frogs not stressed by big human things = happy frogs. Happy frogs do well stress kills,some madness some maybe not:mf_dribble:


I utterly agree with mike all good here mate, normal stuff, you are seeing nothing to worry about:2thumb::welcome:

Stu


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## treefella (Dec 21, 2013)

I was told by a reptile keeper that this is a disease brought on by the lack of UV when young and poor care. That was over a year ago and I now have 6 tinc alanis who all do this especially the toe tapping when alert or hunting


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## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

thanks for replies chaps, doesn't worry me just curious really , like the toe tapping idea beating out prey possible or an over excited puppy, all good fun love watching them


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

treefella said:


> I was told by a reptile keeper that this is a disease brought on by the lack of UV when young and poor care. That was over a year ago and I now have 6 tinc alanis who all do this especially the toe tapping when alert or hunting


That just shows how much misinformation goes around.
I know nothing about pythons and beardies so I`d never try and tell an owner what`s a disease, shame it doesn`t work the other way round.
Now you`ll know next time to pop in here and ask people who actually know instead of wondering to yourself for a year if there`s something wrong with your frogs.
If anyone ever finds out what the toe tapping is for let the rest of us know lol.
I`ve been wondering about it for years now :whistling2:.



Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

tell you one thing, shoving a snake in a plastic box and sliding it into a shelving unit is *just* stupid


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

That seems to be the in thing with them Joe.
Makes you think though on how many snakes are kept in conditions which are completely alien to their true requirements.
Don`t pythons live in grassy areas and in trees etc ?
A plastic tray isn`t too far out I suppose.


Mike


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## Meefloaf (Mar 24, 2013)

get lost mike, have you not seen the jungles of vinyl in asia ?


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## frogman955 (Feb 7, 2010)

Meefloaf said:


> get lost mike, have you not seen the jungles of vinyl in asia ?


I did say I know not a lot on keeping them Joe :notworthy:



Mike


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## toonboymc71 (Dec 15, 2014)

Just started and was curious about that too glad to know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anni (Aug 15, 2010)

Just picked up on this thread,I just took it for granted that the toe flicking was a mechanism to activate any potential prey items living in the substrate.As for the throat vibration ,unless I misunderstand what you mean,it is the method by which they respire.Not possessing a diaphragm (as do mammals)they pump air into their throats by muscular contractions and then swallow it forcing it into their lungs.
It is more noticeable an some of the larger species when after a short period of throat vibratory activity a deeper swallowing action is noticed.
Terry


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## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

thanks ;Terry' something I've seen wild frogs do with there throats but never really thought about it before , now I have dart frogs to look at home its all very interesting.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

gavinc7 said:


> thanks ;Terry' something I've seen wild frogs do with there throats but never really thought about it before , now I have dart frogs to look at home its all very interesting.


Gav for me you just hit on one of the most fascinating facets of dart keeping ( not only darts any animal) ,we start to look real hard when we care for an animal,it's ours,our responsibility to provide all it needs. So not only do we try to learn from others,forums books bla de bla,but we look and ponder and the frogs teach us. This follows on into every type of amphibian we then see,wild or other wise. But it's more than this as this can fold out into almost all life,an observational skill set that changes fundamentals on how one thinks. Could I get that across to a blinkered moron who wants to stop this,whom thinks I just keep frogs in a glass box and am cruel,nah. But another caring guy that loves animals hell maybe.

Look hard mate,watch, ask for the help,if I can't another will try,but watch them man. there is SO !! much going on in an amazing little frogs head,that I regularly gasp at: that translates in to me being better for them. Trust me mate those that look maybe see things few have,even now 21st century we know little about phibs,simple keepers like us that watch like a bloody hawk forget things many have never seen. But we have seen. Because of that the approach is different.

What I'm trying to say behind all this garbled crap is learn by watching dude,evaluate every thing you see, ask why? each and every day!! Which you are seriously on the way towards,I just want to bang this into you,'cause I see the seed of all this above in your post. That simple ethos: looking hard could change an outlook,that me ol' mate will make a good dart keep,hell a good keeper period !!

seeya 

Stu

ps Tel has it:notworthy: phibs also breath through skin,be aware of this,I guess in some ways it is what makes them so fragile and such good barometers of what an ecosystem is going through, we are loosing them,by the truck load. Which, to a simple guy like me means if we all looked hard,we would all see and my bloody planet wouldn't be going through this " worst global extinction since dinos" malarky,which we are!!


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## DrNick (Sep 20, 2012)

anni said:


> Just picked up on this thread,I just took it for granted that the toe flicking was a mechanism to activate any potential prey items living in the substrate.As for the throat vibration ,unless I misunderstand what you mean,it is the method by which they respire.Not possessing a diaphragm (as do mammals)they pump air into their throats by muscular contractions and then swallow it forcing it into their lungs.
> It is more noticeable an some of the larger species when after a short period of throat vibratory activity a deeper swallowing action is noticed.
> Terry


^^^ What he said (toe flicking very likely, throat contractions definitely!). Just posting instead of clicking like button ;-)

Nick


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

DrNick said:


> ^^^ What he said (toe flicking very likely, throat contractions definitely!). Just posting instead of clicking like button ;-)
> 
> Nick


 Ha you are killing me bro,( no one else will get this, Nick might, sorry Nick will!!:2thumb::lol2

Nick, I read back this insanity I write, ok:lol2:fight to write,laughed and honestly thought, "mad man posting who in their right mind would get this",ain't it the strangest thing that some actually do.

Naturally correct speaky is "wot he said":gasp: but we best not go there or you'll have my guts for garters:Na_Na_Na_Na::lol2:,but this struck me as funny. God, took me ruddy ages to get that to Gav,but for me I got a newer guy and a boffin in one post: victory:

Ain't that a thang of loverlyness

Best always mate thanks for this,made I chuckle:no1:

Stu


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## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

soundstounite said:


> Gav for me you just hit on one of the most fascinating facets of dart keeping ( not only darts any animal) ,we start to look real hard when we care for an animal,it's ours,our responsibility to provide all it needs. So not only do we try to learn from others,forums books bla de bla,but we look and ponder and the frogs teach us. This follows on into every type of amphibian we then see,wild or other wise. But it's more than this as this can fold out into almost all life,an observational skill set that changes fundamentals on how one thinks. Could I get that across to a blinkered moron who wants to stop this,whom thinks I just keep frogs in a glass box and am cruel,nah. But another caring guy that loves animals hell maybe.
> 
> Look hard mate,watch, ask for the help,if I can't another will try,but watch them man. there is SO !! much going on in an amazing little frogs head,that I regularly gasp at: that translates in to me being better for them. Trust me mate those that look maybe see things few have,even now 21st century we know little about phibs,simple keepers like us that watch like a bloody hawk forget things many have never seen. But we have seen. Because of that the approach is different.
> 
> ...


Hi Stu,, I take encouragement from your words and you have summed me up better than I could , 
I've made a few mistakes already but thats something I'll have to live with, I can only learn buy posting and reading here (bit like a kid putting his hand up in class); and using the net for all the info I can get: and keeping forgiving darts to start with . the only worry I have is they seem to fat and happy.
thanks mate.

Gav.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Gav ,we all make mistakes. We are only in this 4 years buddy,still making them. Gav although darts have been kept in captivity for ages now(i'm sure my partner in crime as a kid had a form of blue jeans maybe 30/40years back) ,we are still constantly moving forwards and learning new things. The move towards adding vit A for example is very close to being in the time scale we have kept. The good folks at repashy,co.uk have meant access to a product one hell of alot of keepers use doesn't have to be imported from the states,now,like when we started. Folks at Arcadia and other lighting specialists are bringing us improved lighting products.led's for phibs were barely used when we started if I recollect correctly.

So what i'm trying to get across is although there are tried and tested methods out there to dig into, sometimes, even us beginners that have done a bit, are having to make choices,not specifically based on species experience. Plus there is the simple fact that all out set ups are different so differing methods are used,just look at how many options there are with water for example.Couple in organisations like Understory,Wikiri,Tesoros are bringing in new sustainable species that have never been kept, period ! Our hobby is evolving,moving forwards no one knows it all

Essentially we are all learning mate,few in this hobby think they are experts,just learnt a bit tis all,ask buddy,don't ever think a question is stupid(I'll do that bit:bash::lol2. Seriously joking aside look hard frogs teach us alot ask Q's,don't worry if they seem silly!! 

Bro I'm going to bang some links up for ya,you might not know of :

PoisonFrog

Dendrobates.org - Home

Dendroboard.com

Terraria Examples 

Home | Understory Enterprises

the ue link will give you Tesoros,wikiri the CRARC etc

This might help with tincs kiddo: Home
Oh, you are totally welcome mate,

seeya

Stu


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## gavinc7 (Feb 16, 2015)

thank's for the links Stu' thats my evening sorted, 

are you near SW London, will have to pay you a visit one day


Thanks gav.


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## soundstounite (Sep 6, 2009)

Nr Honeybourne,vale of evesham worcs mate. check out the paddington worcs line on the train if that suits,weird cause I thought i'd filled out the location part yonks back,but it's not showing. Hey ho probably me messing things up!! Gav one can't beat seeing a collection and another dart keeper doing it,it doesn't particularly matter if it is ours persay,but it is seriously worthwhile visiting,one can't help but learn.

The most important thing I carried back was "be good at food culturing," I visited Alan Cann with Shaz maybe a year before getting any frogs. He was really kind to us and hammered this aspect home to us. I'll always be grateful for this.By the time we finally got frogs,did maybe 18month 2years of research,we could feed an army of darts. Sure we didn't know it at the time,but we set out for a good few frogs from the off so having things down before frogs meant we hit the ground running,less stress for keepers this way. Also saves the pennies as one tends to have more room to go wrong and save cultures when there is no pressure to feed da froshe,we've bought very very few cultures ,in the big scheme when one considers 4 years as keepers and the number of frogs we keep. I made a big mistake and bought in some new FF,and didn't QT them properly,brought a mite here that gave us some problems. Until that time 3 starters kept everything going fly wise,one set of mels I lost very early on. Like I said earlier mate we all make mistakes,sharing them is almost more important than sharing when things go right as one can step over the pitfall made by others.

take care

Stu


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