# Chameleon Advice



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi all new to the forum and new to reptiles.

We have bought a new viv setup today for a Chameleon. We should be picking up a baby yemen on thursday.
Just a few questions.

Weve got a new Exo Terra Rainforest medium sized viv with everything we need included.

Weve got the light but we havnt got the bulbs yet what bulbs would you reccomend?

We were also looking at a small waterfall with fog do chameleons like these and do the chameleons like drinking from them?

I also wonderd about a heat matt, we didnt get one with the kit but is it worth getting one or will the bulbs be sufficient?

I also though about adding another level not covering it maybe just a small level in the corner as this would possibly provide a warmer place and a cooler place underneath?

I also thought about a cave and heated rock, If i get all of this there will be no room on the floor so what do you think is best to have in there?

Thanks!!


----------



## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi if i were you i would take a look at www.ukchameleons.co.uk and read up on housing and captive care before you do anything else.
Lee


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

I have read this already. Just after some more input really


----------



## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

firstly i would use what is said on the website as a guide and set up your viv. so you have the right temps etc and everything is ready for you to put the animal in there. they need a lot of ventilation so i would makesure the tank is all good before you put one in.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

The tank is glass round the edges with a mesh top and from what ive read this should be ok


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

ashpack said:


> Hi all new to the forum and new to reptiles.
> 
> We have bought a new viv setup today for a Chameleon. We should be picking up a baby yemen on thursday.
> Just a few questions.
> ...


Hello welcome to RFUK. I'm glad you have come here for advice. I have kept Chameleons including Yemens for a number of years and the Set Up you have is NOT suitable at all. The Exo Terra you have bought is completely wrong and too small for a Yemen, also Chameleons need heaps of Ventilation. I use Reptibrezze XL's such as this Reptilekeeping The Online Reptile Shop, Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.

This is my Set Ups using the ReptiBreezes http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa289/simonoldham/KatoStack.jpg

Also, it is not a wise idea to use Waterfalls or leave water bowls in for Yemens - in fact don't!!!!! They will either fall asleep in it and drown or there will be a bacteria build up which will kill your Yemen. I would just stick to a good misting twice a day.


----------



## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

I didnt want to say it myself Kato, as i am no expert with them but i thought they were not the best tanks to keepe them in.


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

kato said:


> Hello welcome to RFUK. I'm glad you have come here for advice. I have kept Chameleons including Yemens for a number of years and the Set Up you have is NOT suitable at all. The Exo Terra you have bought is completely wrong and too small for a Yemen, also Chameleons need heaps of Ventilation. I use Reptibrezze XL's such as this Reptilekeeping The Online Reptile Shop, Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.
> 
> This is my Set Ups using the ReptiBreezes http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa289/simonoldham/KatoStack.jpg
> 
> Also, it is not a wise idea to use Waterfalls or leave water bowls in for Yemens - in fact don't!!!!! They will either fall asleep in it and drown or there will be a bacteria build up which will kill your Yemen. I would just stick to a good misting twice a day.


I disagree with some points of this. Yes they need ventilation but they also need constant temperature and humidity which is hard to do with basically a net curtain!
Also If you house a baby chameleon in something too large they will not find their food and die!
Start of with a small exo and upgrade as the cham gets bigger. Once adult it should be housed (in my own opinion) in a 2x2x4 foot arboreal vivarium. 
Water bowls and waterfalls are a bad idea for chams as they soon get diseased with crickets and locust dying in them. Also stay away from heat rocks.
ALWAYS use a decent thermostat that way you can control the heat source properly.
If in doubt please call us


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok i think il scrap the waterfall idea then and just spray i did find a drip pot have you any experience of these?

I think it would be ok also to keep it in this viv untill its a bit older it would not be a problem to get a bigger one once its abit older what age would you recomend transferring it?
however it does have pictures of what you can use it for on the box and a chameleon is one of those they also said this would be fine in the shop, and the one in the shop was in the same tank.
I could also possibly open one of the doors and secure some mesh in the front but would this not give air circulation which would make it hard to keep a high humidity?

Thanks for your help


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Could you also recomend which bulbs to use? 
my unit has space for 2 bulbs i'd like to get them tommorow so i can check temps ect before i go and collect my cham i will also look into getting a thermostat.


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> I disagree with some points of this. Y*es they need ventilation but they also need constant temperature and humidity which is hard to do with basically a net curtain!*
> Also If you house a baby chameleon in something too large they will not find their food and die!
> Start of with a small exo and upgrade as the cham gets bigger. Once adult it should be housed (in my own opinion) in a 2x2x4 foot arboreal vivarium.
> Water bowls and waterfalls are a bad idea for chams as they soon get diseased with crickets and locust dying in them. Also stay away from heat rocks.
> ...


Never had a problem keeping Yemens in mesh Viv's and keeping them to a good humidity. My Set -ups are kept simple and not over complicated.

You can house it in a small Viv when it is young but if you sparsely decorate it the Yemen will find it's food. It is ok to house them in small Vivs when they are very young, but once they hit six to eight weeks they need the growing space and the exercise room. If you buy your Yemen from a Shop ideally it should be about two inches in body length, but bigger is best as there is a death rate with young Yemens, once they reach six weeks they are fine. Also with Yemens which are a desert species mainly as long as you have a decent UV and a good spot light you'll be fine as long as you use a good substrate and mist properly. Try and treat how you look after your Yemen as close to its natural environment as possible.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

kato said:


> Hello welcome to RFUK. I'm glad you have come here for advice. I have kept Chameleons including Yemens for a number of years and the Set Up you have is NOT suitable at all. The Exo Terra you have bought is completely wrong and too small for a Yemen, also Chameleons need heaps of Ventilation. I use Reptibrezze XL's such as this Reptilekeeping The Online Reptile Shop, Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.
> 
> This is my Set Ups using the ReptiBreezes http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa289/simonoldham/KatoStack.jpg
> 
> Also, it is not a wise idea to use Waterfalls or leave water bowls in for Yemens - in fact don't!!!!! They will either fall asleep in it and drown or there will be a bacteria build up which will kill your Yemen. I would just stick to a good misting twice a day.


I have just looked at the link you provided and my tank is 18"x18"x24 and the one your showing on this site is 16x16x20 so it is smaller than the one i have.
My tank does have air vents just below the door all along and the roof so you think this would not be enough ventilation?


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

I did find this Reptilekeeping The Online Reptile Shop, Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.

Dont know if it would suit a chameleon but may help ventilation?


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

ashpack said:


> I have just looked at the link you provided and my tank is 18"x18"x24 and the one your showing on this site is 16x16x20 so it is smaller than the one i have.
> My tank does have air vents just below the door all along and the roof so you think this would not be enough ventilation?


Thats just in the Advert- but as in my earlier photo I use the Four foot tall by two foot square ones. What you must remember is that Yemens are a Desert Species not a Jungle one. I have seen them in the wild and have never had a Yemen die on us over years of keeping them apart from old age.

Whoever sold you a glass Viv for Yemens took the mickey out of you I'm afraid - sorry.


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

ashpack said:


> I did find this Reptilekeeping The Online Reptile Shop, Selling Livefoods Reptile Accessories and Equipment.
> 
> Dont know if it would suit a chameleon but may help ventilation?


No good at all really - you need real ventilation. Just use a 10.0 UV Strip Bulb and a 100 Watt Bulb from Focus or B and Q. Save your money to spend on other Reptiles.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Thoughts on a large flexarium?


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

ashpack said:


> Thoughts on a large flexarium?


Large Flexariums are fine, your Chameleon will get the right Ventilation with one of these. I used to use the Six foot tall by two and a half foot ones and they are ok, but after a year or so they start to look tired. On the reptiBreezes that I now use the Chameleons can actually climb up the mesh from top to bottom, something that they cannot generally do on a Flexi. Also with the ReptiBreeze you get a clearer view of your Chameleon - something you do lose a bit with the large Flexi's.


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

kato said:


> Thats just in the Advert- but as in my earlier photo I use the Four foot tall by two foot square ones. What you must remember is that Yemens are a Desert Species not a Jungle one. I have seen them in the wild and have never had a Yemen die on us over years of keeping them apart from old age.
> 
> Whoever sold you a glass Viv for Yemens took the mickey out of you I'm afraid - sorry.


*WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???*
The *veiled chameleon*, _Chamaeleo calyptratus_, is a large species of chameleon found in the *mountain** regions of **Yemen*, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia. It is also sometimes referred to as the *Yemen Chameleon*
*MOUNTAIN REGIONS-THIS IS NOT DESERT :bash:*
*Look at these two links *
*This is desert see no trees*
*This is Mountains oh I see trees*

*Whoever sold him the glass viv did not take the mickey at all*
*We breed jacksons, yemens and panthers and all of the young are raised in glass vivs*
*We sell glass vivs to our customers and have zero deaths. Only once they are juveniles do we put them into wooden vivs. *


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

While im on a rant I have just looked at Katos stack OMG BAD PRACTICE
He has heat from the vivs underneath which will penetrate the wood of the vivs and heat up the enclosures on top therefore not allowing proper thermoregulation!!


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> *WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???*
> The *veiled chameleon*, _Chamaeleo calyptratus_, is a large species of chameleon found in the *mountain** regions of **Yemen*, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia. It is also sometimes referred to as the *Yemen Chameleon*
> *MOUNTAIN REGIONS-THIS IS NOT DESERT :bash:*
> *Look at these two links *
> ...





rmy said:


> While im on a rant I have just looked at Katos stack OMG BAD PRACTICE
> He has heat from the vivs underneath which will penetrate the wood of the vivs and heat up the enclosures on top therefore not allowing proper thermoregulation!!


So you have been to the Hils and Mountains of Yemen and Saudi? And also the Wadi's where the Yemens Frequent? Quite frankly, bad advise is keeping big Chameleons in Glass Vivs, small Carpet type Chameleons are fine. If your shop was in my area I would stay clear and tell all my friends and associates to do the same if that's the advice you are giving out.

Also, why can't my Chameleons Thermo regulate? I must be doing something wrong if that's what you say. The Vivs are proper quality ones not the cheap ones some people are sold - there is also not an ounce of heat coming from the lower Vivs.


----------



## mooshu (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi dude welcome to rfuk lol! 

I go my cham when he was a baby and I kept him in a exo the same size as yours. The important thing is to put loads of vines for walkways and plastic plants for cover! I made mine very, very busy so he could hide and feel secure. I sorted the feeding problem by cup feeding (put the livefood in cups and attachthe cups to a vine off the ground) that way you can keep an eye on how much its eating.

Heat rocks are pointless for a chameleon because they are arboreal (live in the trees) and waterfalls just get dirty! 

Ive got a panther chameleon so it might be a little bit different but not too different. 

If you get any problems feel free to ask me. Im no expert. but I did the same as you so I can tell you what I did!

Good luck mate and try and read up on chams as much as you can!


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

rmy said:


> While im on a rant I have just looked at Katos stack OMG BAD PRACTICE
> He has heat from the vivs underneath which will penetrate the wood of the vivs and heat up the enclosures on top therefore not allowing proper thermoregulation!!


excuse me, sorry but you are in the wrong here.
for a start there is a little warmth on the bottom (using a probe reads at 78 in the warmest area day time only, so that would actually be replicating warm spots on soil, rock etc so far more natural ...... they have a nice snug basking spot at the top and many different areas with temperature variations, as you are an expert you will know this is critical to their well being, would you rather they were sat on a cold floor with no added heating ?
We have people (and shops) from all over the country seeking out our chameleons and our home bred male is the biggest i have ever seen, I some how think we are doing things right.
Now I will say that there is more than one way to keep these successfully, and there are many rights and many wrongs, how ever I have had to pick up the pieces after yemens have been kept in exo's far to many times, I really do think you would do well to review your practices on recommending them as suitable, when they are not.......... yemens suffer in stale air and need very good air flow, no drafts , loads and loads of hiding places, and open space as well.

Personally if someone came to us to buy a baby yeman and said they intended keeping it for more than a few weeks in an exo I would refuse the sale for the wellbeing of the cham.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok so now i am confused.

Will this viv be suitable or not? Im going to keep it in there for a while at least. 
will i need to move it to a bigger one once its abit older?


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh and another reason not to use glass, the reflections caused by glass can cause a lot of stress to a very solitary animal.


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

ashpack said:


> Ok so now i am confused.
> 
> Will this viv be suitable or not? Im going to keep it in there for a while at least.
> will i need to move it to a bigger one once its abit older?



He will need at the very least a 4 foot high by 2 ft x ft by the time he is 6 months old


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

wohic said:


> He will need at the very least a 4 foot high by 2 ft x ft by the time he is 6 months old


Would a flexarium be suitable once its older? or can you show me an example of something that would be more suitable as il look into getting one the quicker the better i guess


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

This arguement could go on forever so you keep them your way and we will keep them ours. 
I too would recommend people to stay clear of your practises but hey ho!


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

ashpack said:


> Would a flexarium be suitable once its older? or can you show me an example of something that would be more suitable as il look into getting one the quicker the better i guess


 a flexie will be fine ! as will the reptibreezes , anything that gives good airflow, I have friends who use plastic water tanks (like you get in the loft) with mesh doors and good sized ventilation strips sides and back, they work very well and are ideal in homes that may be a little chilly or drafty


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

rmy said:


> This arguement could go on forever so you keep them your way and we will keep them ours.
> I too would recommend people to stay clear of your practises but hey ho!


Each to their own, and people should make their own minds up based on the evidence available to them from well trusted breeders, from research , and just using common sense .


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

Well common sense says to me that if cams need high humidity then that in itself will be difficult to achieve in something that has mesh sides, let alone the damage to the wallpaper when spraying the enclosures + open a window in that room and that will instantly drop the temperature of the enclosure and create a draft!


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

Let me ask you 
how many babies do you produce in a year?


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

What sort of lighting would be best in a flex as the room is not the warmest of rooms would it be better to use a heater aswell as a light?


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> This arguement could go on forever so you keep them your way and we will keep them ours.
> I too would recommend people to stay clear of your practises but hey ho!


You have not answered whether you have travelled in the Yemen or that area and seen Yemens in the wild like I have. The argument could go on a long time, but if you replicate a Yemens natural environment you won't go wrong - I have seen plenty of trees with lots of air and breezes there that Yemens thrive in, but sadly for you no Glass areas with Yemens in.:Na_Na_Na_Na:

So recommend away your methods, but quite frankly they are very very poor and bad advice - extremely bad advice if you consider the Yemen's welfare and long life!!! Perhaps it might be worth checking your Web Site out to see your care sheets and care guides. Do you have a Web address like all the the good Reptile Shops and Traders in the Country?


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

ashpack said:


> What sort of lighting would be best in a flex as the room is not the warmest of rooms would it be better to use a heater aswell as a light?


 You will need to use a heat lamp or ceramic as well as a uv


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

kato said:


> You have not answered whether you have travelled in the Yemen or that area and seen Yemens in the wild like I have. The argument could go on a long time, but if you replicate a Yemens natural environment you won't go wrong - I have seen plenty of trees with lots of air and breezes there that Yemens thrive in, but sadly for you no Glass areas with Yemens in.:Na_Na_Na_Na:
> 
> So recommend away your methods, but quite frankly they are very very poor and bad advice - extremely bad advice if you consider the Yemen's welfare and long life!!! Perhaps it might be worth checking your Web Site out to see your care sheets and care guides. Do you have a Web address like all the the good Reptile Shops and Traders in the Country?


actually our website is being built. I also consider your advice to be very poor and bad advice


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> Let me ask you
> how many babies do you produce in a year?


Last year I could of produced hundreds. But I did not Incubate, so produced none. I did however have and still do a very good waiting list for my Yemen Babies. I breed for the love of it and not for money. Unlike some I care about my baby Yemens and always want them to go to good suitable homes. I am so proud of the baby Yemens that I have produced and get to see with there new owners years on.

How many do you breed then and produce in a year?


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> actually our website is being built. I also consider your advice to be very poor and bad advice


So have you been to the natural habitat? I can guess why you are not answering.:whistling2:


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

kato said:


> So have you been to the natural habitat? I can guess why you are not answering.:whistling2:


Obviously not but i have been breeding for the last 10 years!!
How many females do you have?


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

rmy said:


> Obviously not but i have been breeding for the last 10 years!!
> How many females do you have?


It's not about breeding them it is about raising them. I have two Females and two Males. In actual fact I have over 30 odd years with Reptiles and I still have loads and loads to learn. But I do know that the natural way is always the best and you won't go far wrong use the KIS method - KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!

May I make a suggestion(this is not me being critical of you), if your in the trade as you are - get out in the big wide World and see these animals in their natural environment, then you will know where I am coming from in what I say. I have travelled extensively and seen many Reptiles in there natural habitat and my best advice to any keeper is to replicate natural environment.

I am a Private Hobbyist and get great enjoyment out of what I keep and what I raise and it does not matter financially whether I sell a million Chameleons or none as I am not in it for the money. But I do know that if a Shop was to give out bad advice, it would lose customers and probably be forced to close.


----------



## BoaQueen (May 3, 2009)

This thread has gone horribly wrong. Rmy there really is no need to see who is better here. We have already established that people have their own way of doing things. Doesn't mean either way is right or wrong.

We personally use Exo Terra's ourselves and have kept yemens like this for years with no problem however we have always liked the ReptiBreeze's and we have just bought another pair of Yemen's to add to our collection, so we are defo going to try a ReptiBreeze for these. You don't know unless you try right? Sometimes trying something different could be for the better :2thumb:


----------



## TheReptileRoom (Dec 3, 2006)

*Yemen Chamelon advice,*

the first advice to look at uk chameleons website is faultless.

You have now purchased a small viv exotic, which will act as a home for your yemen for a couple of months, yemen chameleons grow very fast, and it will soon need a better living environment. 

I would then personally recommend an Extra Large Reptibreeze which is heavily planted, with an exo terra glow light with 100w daylight bulb. With an arcadia 6 or 12% UV with reflector. It will then have a thermal gradiant from top to bottom with is ideal for the yemen.

I use the coco backing which cost about 14.99 for a large sheet, which is ideal for back cover, and stop your wall getting wet. 

A dripper is fine, or misting the heavily misting the cage, twice daily is suffice.

Heat mats, heatmats are definately not required.

To be honest RMY ive never heard of you on the chameleon seen over 10 years. 

You have bred jacksons, yemens and panthers, which isnt that hard, unfortunately this does not make you an expert and give you the right to attack other member trying to help and give suitable advice. Alot of people advice will differ, and its sometimes what works well with them.


In my opinion they do require a good vetilated enclosure, and misting will help with the humidity, a little breeze would be appreciated by the chameleon.


Mark


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

Ok so you have two males and two females and have stated that you could have bred hundreds last year but didnt bother to incubate!
Hundreds from two females is a lot dont you think??
We have one male and three females we breed them once a year and thus far have had a 100% egg to juvenile success rate.
Just because you either have the money to travel or have been in the army and seen these things doesnt mean that you are right. We have lots of people come in that have dead/ dying cams and the two things they all have in common is sunken turrets indicating dehydration and the fact that they have used flexi's or repti's. All of them insist that their cams are sprayed at least twice a day.
All of the cams that we sell go out in exo's appropriate for size and are upgraded as and when needed. We have never had a problem!!
Tell you what we tell people what we think and you tell people what you think
enough said!!


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

To be honest RMY ive never heard of you on the chameleon seen over 10 years.
[/QUOTE said:


> Just because you dont hear of someone doesnt mean they are not there


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i always raised my babies in a small tank with a mesh lid... a u.v. lamp and some skinny branches and a pothos vine... 

i also kept a dish of supplement that i concocted on the floor of the tank... 

after the hatchlings became established in a couple weeks i would move them to a full mesh cage... not huge... a raising cage... then after the became large enough i'd place them in an adult cage...


gut loading the crickets properly is a must... sunshine after they get some size...

may not be what others do but i had to figure it all out on my own.

fresh hatchlings are delicate: victory:


----------



## igmillichip (Feb 7, 2010)

As usual, this is turning into one of them circular arguments on an age-old theme.
That may be fine, but the problem is that the important points get missed out.

Too many keepers blame the demise of a chameleon on being kept in a glass viv or whatever. 

There are pros and cons with glass vs mesh vivs. 
So long as the key requirements are held in mind, and any short-comings of a particular viv is addressed and solved (eg fans and foggers or special rooms) then you will find the glass vs mesh discussion is a moot.

Mesh vivs are the ideal....... but if the construction and position of such makes placing a high-output mercury vapour lamp near one almost impossible (many are plastic and melt well), or if massive sprayings next to the 50 inch plasma TV become difficult, then the chameleon is likely to suffer.
If you shove a chameleon in a small stuffy wooden sealed box with a glass front, then that is asking for a different set of problems.

I happen to keep mine in both glass (mesh-topped) and mesh vivs depending on species and space allowances.

It is also quite easy to prevent any reflections within a glass viv.
I believe that most stressed chameleons that I see are not due to glass reflections. That is often a poor excuse for generally poor husbandry.

ian


----------



## kato (May 12, 2007)

TheReptileRoom said:


> the first advice to look at uk chameleons website is faultless.
> 
> You have now purchased a small viv exotic, which will act as a home for your yemen for a couple of months, yemen chameleons grow very fast, and it will soon need a better living environment.
> 
> ...


Good sound advice there Mark:notworthy:



rmy said:


> *Ok so you have two males and two females and have stated that you could have bred hundreds last year but didnt bother to incubate!
> Hundreds from two females is a lot dont you think??*
> We have one male and three females we breed them once a year and thus far have had a 100% egg to juvenile success rate.
> *Just because you either have the money to travel or have been in the army and seen these things doesnt mean that you are right*. We have lots of people come in that have dead/ dying cams and the two things they all have in common is sunken turrets indicating dehydration and the fact that they have used flexi's or repti's. All of them insist that their cams are sprayed at least twice a day.
> ...


Two Females each laying about fifty eggs two maybe three times a year = about 300 eggs, so yes hundreds. As I said I do not do that and did not Breed last year. So your point is?

Also, I don't have any money and I certainly wasn't in the Army but was a Royal Marine Commando for many years. But my time in the Forces does not really have that much to do with my Reptile experience, although it does some. But I still say that replicating the natural environment is best of which I have seen!!!



rmy said:


> Just because you dont hear of someone doesnt mean they are not there


I've not heard of you, but I think I have met most reputable Chamelon experts and Breeders in the Country.



HABU said:


> i always raised my babies in a small tank with a mesh lid... a u.v. lamp and some skinny branches and a pothos vine...
> 
> i also kept a dish of supplement that i concocted on the floor of the tank...
> 
> ...


Here speaks a wise man, who probably imitates the natural environment. HAIL WISE MAN:2thumb:


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Right i think ive worked out what my plan is.

Il keep it in the exo untill the suitable age. Im still abit unsure about exactly what lights to put in it, i have room for 2 bulbs in the one unit, basking and uv?

Im going to buy a flexarium soon then i can start getting it ready and then i can move it when i feel its ready. If i get a basking light and a ReptiSun 5.0 or similar do you think that would be ok? would i need a twin thermostat?

Im reading alot on this and ive got nearlly a week before i get a cham so ive got plenty of time to read alot more.

I was looking at getting a weeping fig tree to put in the flexarium


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

kato said:


> Good sound advice there Mark:notworthy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
babies can dehydrate quickly... overheat fast too...

babies need some humidity... glass will hold in humidity more while a mesh lid does allow good ventilation... a live pothos vine will put moistier in the air... gaseous water... humid, not wet...

mist with a very fine mist and the babies will drink off the leaves well...

they like dirt i've found tinkering with them... but that's another thread maybe...

they grow so fast!... and go from hatchling to mini-chameleon in a very short time... getting stronger...

once they are out of that delicate hatchling stage i'd put them in a small mesh cage...







this is what i always used... i had several of these...


they are small enough to move around and take outside if it's warm... it gets very warm and sunny here where i live... they'll love the sun... they would lay on the floor of the cage like cows when the sun hit them very often and just soak it all up.. fresh air and sunshine...


gut loading the prey items very well is a must at this stage... how you treat them early in life makes a difference that can't be mended later on...

i was talking just last week to the old lady that i want to raise them again... when the weather breaks i'll order a few... i even have a spare room for them...

once veileds are established and used to you and their world they are easy.... very rewarding... they'll make most anyone look like they know what they're doing!:2thumb:


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

ashpack said:


> Right i think ive worked out what my plan is.
> 
> Il keep it in the exo untill the suitable age. Im still abit unsure about exactly what lights to put in it, i have room for 2 bulbs in the one unit, basking and uv?
> 
> ...



Hey mate

Exos dont work that well because there so small and the heat come from above it cant dispate. 

Would be like you in the sun all day. Chams are pretty good and do well in bigger vivs with a nice amount of cover.


----------



## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i just built all my big cages...


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

Hey RMY. Just wondering how you can start to argue with people about husbandry and the keeping of reptiles.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snake-classifieds/615363-female-jungle-carpet-python-kent.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snake-classifieds/614044-jungle-jaguar-carpet-python.html


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

Wooden vivs for Chameleons???
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...16638d1279373500-new-shop-opens-chameleon.jpg

Beech chips....

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...1279373447-new-shop-opens-baby-chameleons.jpg





And BTW Yemen is quite dry country...


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

ashpack said:


> Right i think ive worked out what my plan is.
> 
> Il keep it in the exo untill the suitable age. Im still abit unsure about exactly what lights to put in it, i have room for 2 bulbs in the one unit, basking and uv?
> 
> ...


If you put a reptisun into an exoterra lid chances are that it will melt. Exo tops are designed for compact UV bulbs



SNAKEWISPERA said:


> Hey RMY. Just wondering how you can start to argue with people about husbandry and the keeping of reptiles.
> 
> If this is an exo terra top and you put a reptisun in there then the top will melt.
> These tops are designed to hold two compact uv lamps
> ...


As stated in the post we was sold it as a jungle jag and that is what the paperwork that came with her said, that is what we put her up as, we was corrected and corrected our advert



SNAKEWISPERA said:


> Wooden vivs for Chameleons???
> http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/foru...16638d1279373500-new-shop-opens-chameleon.jpg
> This cam is in a 4x4x2 and gets on fine in there. He is now 7 years old and the viv is 4 years old
> 
> ...


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

I have said my bit and dont want to go round in curcles, but PLEASE DONT USE A CERAMIC ! Use an incandescent basking bulb, there are several reasons for this.
1) Yemens are diurnal so as mentioned we should be replicating nature...... bright sunlight giving off heat.
2) similar reason to the above really, They will seek out a bright hot spot but may well not recognise a non light emitting heater 
3) Ceramics dry out the air far too much.



as already mentioned have a look on uk chameleons,
Image map
you wont go far wrong with their advice and you can alter things to suit the environment you live in, as i have already stated there is more than one way to do things, have a read and make your own mind up


----------



## leecb0 (Apr 14, 2009)

Can i just say something. i have been to the yeman and saudi regions with "work" and it aint no rainforest. RWY i think the best advice has come from wohic and kato and mark.


----------



## rmy (Jun 13, 2010)

*Sarawat Mountains of Yemen* are one of the most important geographical features of the Arabian Peninsula. It lies parallel to the Red Sea on the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula. The mountains stretch over a land of 2000 kilometers. 

Sarawat Mountains at Yemen commence from the border of Jordan in the north to the Gulf of Aden in the south. It passes through Yemen and Saudi Arabia. This mountain range at Yemen is a part of the Arabian Shield. 

Sarawat Mountains in Yemen are made up of volcanic rock. It is due to the high altitudes of this mountain range, that the interiors of Yemen remain dry through out the year. This is because when the moisture laden air from Red Sea rises up, they are not allowed to travel to the interiors because of the high peaks. Hence, the mountains receive the rain while the plains remain dry.

Yemen Sarawat Mountains are also a popular tourist destination in the Middle East. The mountain range is home to a rich wildlife including various species of birds, animals and flora. One can also practice some adventure sports such as mountaineering or rock climbing, hiking, trekking, etc during spring, winter or autumn when the weather is pleasant. One must avoid visiting *Sarawat Mountains of Yemen* during summer as the mountains remains hot. 

NEARLY EVERYTHING ON EARTH NEEDS WATER TO SURVIVE
Taken from
Sarawat Mountains of Yemen
as far as I am concerned we breed healthy chameleons and house happy chameleons we have never had a complaint from a customer ever

Go slag of someone else!!


----------



## SNAKEWISPERA (Aug 27, 2007)

Your argueing with 2 people who where in the services and have served in the country.

Also my girlfriends family come from Yeman.... 

Go C&P Off another website.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Im going to get my repti glo bulbs from shirley aquatics tonight. Should i get 2 bulbs or 1?
And should i get 5/13w, 5/26w
or 10/13, 10,26w or one of each or what would be best? thanks


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

rmy said:


> *Sarawat Mountains of Yemen* are one of the most important geographical features of the Arabian Peninsula. It lies parallel to the Red Sea on the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula. The mountains stretch over a land of 2000 kilometers.
> 
> Sarawat Mountains at Yemen commence from the border of Jordan in the north to the Gulf of Aden in the south. It passes through Yemen and Saudi Arabia. This mountain range at Yemen is a part of the Arabian Shield.
> 
> ...



western yemen and Saudi where they come from does not have a great deal of rain actually, they gather near water, where there, subsequently , is vegetation which leads to humidity but its a long way from tropical rain forest environment.

I for one am not slagging you off, I am trying to offer advice to someone who needs to improve their knowledge a little, c&ping a google result does not actually show a huge amount of understanding of a species you seem to know so much about (Heck I google as well, but then I still have an awful lot to lean about all species, and i get enjoyment out of furthering my knowledge, sharing info with other keepers and finding out whats best for them.

Can you please explain why ceramics are suitable for them , I would be interested to know ?





.


----------



## vetdebbie (Jan 4, 2008)

Couple of points.

Rain does not equal humidity.

Humidity does not ensure well hydrated animal.

Water DOES ensure well hydrated animal. Actual water drops that is. IE rain.

In my experience, and to be fair that is only 5 years, Yemens need rain (ie misting or spraying) and don't give two hoots about humidity. My two been kept in well ventilated, quite dry environments with 2-3 sprayings a day, and are now in a room with a much higher humidity (because there are 8 chameleon vivs in there now, including panthers), still with 2 -3 sprayings a day. They drink the same amount either way, and look no different. They do still have +++++ventilation, and because I am concerned about that are located in front of a slightly open window.

By the way, numbers of offspring produced does not equal good breeding practice. Healthy offspring produced does. My female is from Kato. She is now 2 and half, and has just laid her 4th clutch of eggs, with minimal weight loss and without once going off her food. That says masses to me.


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

ashpack said:


> Im going to get my repti glo bulbs from shirley aquatics tonight. Should i get 2 bulbs or 1?
> And should i get 5/13w, 5/26w
> or 10/13, 10,26w or one of each or what would be best? thanks


here we go, have a read and make a decision that fits your set up

Image map


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok so i went to the shop and managed to spend another £126 and i still havnt got my cham yet but i think ive got everything i need now my setup consists of:

Exo terra Viv (i am going to keep it in here untill its big enough to move)
3 large artificial plants and 1 small
2 artificial bendy vines
Thermometre and Hydo to measure bottom 
Digital Thermo/hydro for top
Littledripper 
Nutrabol
Komodo premium insect dusting powder
Exo terra lighting unit running 2x 26w Repti glo 5.0 uvb
8.5 inch Clamp Lamp running a 150w Heat glo infared lamp.

I just need to get some food for the little guy and a thermostat for the heat lamp. The bloke in the shop said i would need this on at night also? I think maybe not? or at least a lower heat? 

Anyway the vivs looking quite nice now and im just waiting for someone to tell me its all wrong! ha

Ive been reading as much as possible about them and i think im fairly sorted so im going to be ready to go and collect him on thursday!


----------



## Oski1 (Jan 2, 2010)

ashpack said:


> Ok so i went to the shop and managed to spend another £126 and i still havnt got my cham yet but i think ive got everything i need now my setup consists of:
> 
> Exo terra Viv (i am going to keep it in here untill its big enough to move)
> 3 large artificial plants and 1 small
> ...



Hi mate,

I would change that 150 infra-red bulb, its not a natural light plus 150 watt is overkill way to much for that size exo terra,

I would get a normal incandescent bulb try a 40 and 60 watt. try to see which gives a stable temperature at various distances, with a thermostat connected, 40 watt may even be enough for that size setup.

Just get a normal 5 Reptisun linear bulb+ starter, lose the exo lighting unit, there has been problems with some compact bulbs with chameleons, linear bulbs are much better,


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

I find it pretty funny that people are arguing over the conditions in Yemen and they are both right. Yes it is a desert country but also yes veiled chameleons do live in trees in the mountainous parts of the country. 

I personally dont like the solid or glass tanks as they retain too much moisture which leads to mold and makes cleaning a pain in the ass. I would advise using a mesh cage, its not hard to keep temps and humidity at the right levels by using the right lights, live plants, a dripper and misting a few times through the day. 

I would consider the right lighting for a young veiled in a small cage to be a reptisun 5.0 liner tube and a regular household bulb 40w - 75w for basking depending on what temps you are registering. *No lights at all at night,* if your temps drop below 10- 12C at night you may need another heat source that doesnt omit light but i just drape a blanket over my cage and this works fine and also keeps any unwanted light out.

Im not sure on the supplements you have there but the ones i use are:

Zoomed repti calcium without D3 - used almost every feeding
Zoomed reptivite with D3 - used twice a month

alternatively if you get the reptivite without D3 then you will need:

Zoomed repti calcium with D3 - used once a month

I would definately put a live plant in there as they like to munch on the odd leaf or two, Schefflera or ficus are fine and only cost a few quid from BnQ or other garden centers, just make sure to repot the plant using clean organic soil without any pesticides and make sure to cover the soil with some large pebbles to stop him eating the dirt, because he will.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

I think i may need sum slight heat at night as it does get cold in my place at night i have got a red bulb and a dimmer with a day/night thermostat so i should be able to keep a low temp at night.
I bought a weeping fig to go in there i think there safe?


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

the weeping fig is a ficus which is fine. The red bulb on at night is a definite NONO. it will stop it from sleeping. Seriously try wrapping a blanket around the cage you will be amazed at how much heat it retains and will probably have to do it anyway if your cham is going to be kept in a room where lights will be on after its are turned off.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

I was told they cant see a red bulb?


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

they can. which room will it be kept in?


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

living room. The bloke told me they cant see the red light. Ive been testing the temps. This morning with no light overnight it was 14 celcius


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

well i can only say what i know if you want to use a red bulb overnight then do it but i hope you dont. 14C overnight is fine as long as he has a decent basking spot in the morning. 

if you are keeping it in the living room then you will need to cover it with something at night or everytime you turn the lights on or the tv flashes it may disturb it. 

Id set up your cage as it will be and with the lights on and monitoring the temps for a day or two. your lights will need burning in any way.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok im not going to use the red bulb atall im going to take it out. I trust what your saying but there are so many websites that say they cant see it stupid really.
In an erlier post someone else suggested i get a 60w incandescent bulb. is this just a normal bulb?
Will covering it at night not affect ventilation? as i am using a glass viv for now?
Weve been monitoring the temps for a couple of days as were not getting it until thursday and i do think the red bulb is too hot anyway. Thanks


----------



## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

ashpack said:


> Ok im not going to use the red bulb atall im going to take it out. I trust what your saying but there are so many websites that say they cant see it stupid really.
> In an erlier post someone else suggested i get a 60w incandescent bulb. is this just a normal bulb?
> Will covering it at night not affect ventilation? as i am using a glass viv for now?
> Weve been monitoring the temps for a couple of days as were not getting it until thursday and i do think the red bulb is too hot anyway. Thanks


They *cant* see an infra-red spectrum of light, hence the whole point of producing them.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok so can they or can they not see it lol?


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ive jsut looked around the net and alot of people saying they can see it and alot saying they cant. so anyone know for sure?


----------



## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

why do you think their made? Trust me buddy, unable to see a red spectrum :2thumb: kept all sorts of reps for years, including chams, used a red bulb at night to keep temps from falling with no faults.


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

basically you want darkness, if it gives off light then you dont want it on at night. plus if you are getting a yemen you dont need it.


> As would be experienced in their natural habitat, a drop in temperature at night is important for many species of Chameleon to allow them a proper period of rest. It is important to understand the climate where the chameleon comes from to ensure the correct minimum temperature.
> For example Panther Chameleons don't thrive with night-time drops much below the low 60°F's. Temperatures below that can be fatal in weak individuals. This is because they come from a less variable climate than for example, the Veiled Chameleon which can (although it is absolutely not recommended) survive night-time temperatures approaching freezing***.
> 
> _*** Sorry to state the obvious but please do not try and test the freezing statement. 50°F is a better minimum for Veiled chameleons in captivity._


quote fromImage map


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Shorley a red light would be darkness to them though? im just worried about the temp dropping to low


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

you want it to get cold at night, 10C is the lowest it should ever get and youve already said its 14C and its winter so i dont know why your worried?


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Well ive just checked and the lowest it got too was 11.2 overnight shorley it would be better to put the red light on with a v low temperature on the dimmer just to be safe maybe just 15 or something? if it got much colder than that it may not be great?


----------



## itwas (Jan 10, 2011)

are you really sure you are wanting advice?


----------



## Oski1 (Jan 2, 2010)

ashpack said:


> Well ive just checked and the lowest it got too was 11.2 overnight shorley it would be better to put the red light on with a v low temperature on the dimmer just to be safe maybe just 15 or something? if it got much colder than that it may not be great?


People who are concerned about low night time temps and have chameleons usually will use ceramic heaters, NOT an infra-red bulb, but they are generally not needed, none of my chams or people I know have any nigh time heat and there chams are fine, that bulb like I said before is way to hot for a small exo terra 150 watt bulb for that size setup is crazy, I would just get a house hold bulb they are fine, and "itwas"has given good advice there, its worth taking that all in,


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

it will be far healthier for you cham to have a good temperature drop at night, this replicates the natural environment, dont bother with night time heating


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Of course. im not being funny im just trying to understand


----------



## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

just because you and other keepers have appropriate night temp temperatures doesn't mean the OP does.

My beardie set-ups can reach 50oF during the night, I know central australia has lower temps than that at night but I decide its my responsibility as a reptile keeper to ensure comfortable conditions, so I use a red bulb to stop temps dropping below 70oF, and daytime surface temps of 110oF

I don't see why this is a problem with chameleons, plenty of reptile keepers supplement night time temps with a red bulb. This doesn't mean keeping it the same as daytime temps.

That isnt to say that they cant cope without it, they can be easily be kept with no night time heating what so ever. The OP is concerned and is asking advice, and a red bulb is more than fine for night time heating if it is needed.


----------



## wohic (Jun 19, 2006)

Tilly1988 said:


> just because you and other keepers have appropriate night temp temperatures doesn't mean the OP does.
> 
> My beardie set-ups can reach 50oF during the night, I know central australia has lower temps than that at night but I decide its my responsibility as a reptile keeper to ensure comfortable conditions, so I use a red bulb to stop temps dropping below 70oF, and daytime surface temps of 110oF
> 
> ...



I dont actually like red bulbs at night, some reps can see red, specifically ones that exhibit red colouration themselves (or they would be invisible to each other !) 
A true infra red bulb is invisible but the red bulbs that are simply coloured glass can be seen .


----------



## Tilly1988 (Dec 6, 2009)

true, ceramics are a good choice, probably the best. But I use bulbs with an infra-red spectrum, perhaps this is where confusion comes from.

Everybody has different husbandry techniques


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

:gasp: it's a wonder they come back :lol2:

ASHPAK top right: private message: unread 1 :whistling2:


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok thanks. Im going to see what the temp drops to over the next couple of nights then make a desicion weather i need heat at night or not my bulb is infa red so if needed i will use it at night.


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the pm's aswell very helpfull. This thread will probably come in handy for other new cham owners aswell :lol2:


----------



## FrankSpencer (Apr 7, 2009)

Just my fourpennth....

I went into Cham keeping from zero experience too. I rescued one and didn't even know what type it was lol. It was him that stole my heart and set me on my Cham experience.

Having read both sides of ' which viv ' argument I knew being in UK, for me, a mesh viv while allowing excellent ventilation etc, it was a logistical nightmare sustaining correct temperatures. I ended up with an exo type one for the first few months....it's not just getting air into the viv, it's allowing an exit too, allowing through flow air. The viv allowed that having mesh on the front sides and full mesh lid.

As he grew, quickly , I decided, for me, the best option was to build my own. 
Wooden structure. full mesh top, bottom 25% on the front mesh above which are toughened glass sliding doors on remaining 75%. Same as AX principle but with mesh roof.
Standard 60 watt bulb from Sainsburys ( might need 100 depending on temp viv set up ) giving 95 degrees. This set, anywhere else is cooler and the cham can choose his places to sleep, hide, thermoregulate....help by habistat.
Nightime drops 10 - 15 degrees. No additional heating or light. But don't let drop below 60
5% tube.
Both on timer from 7 am - 8pm. When timer goes out there is nothing on at all, hopefully replacating natural conditions.

I only ever use real plants. These serve a multitude of purposes and would never consider plastic. Fiscus, Pathos, Hisbiscus, umbrella....do check before buying randomly as many others are toxic. All plants need a good shower before placement.

No substrate, easier to clean although as babies I did once use kitchen roll.
Rocky background on internal wood with garden plastic grid mesh attached ontop for maximum climping toys. On this mesh, half way up I have also attached ' cup holders ' for any feeders I don't want running loose. 

I don't mist frantically, believing he needs less than devoted jungle dwellers. I mist once daily and have a home made dripper very slowly drippings on leaves. Doubles up as plant waterer aswell lol
I hang a wire hamster feeder on the side wall mesh for rocket, mango etc 

Babies can fall while learning to use the tail, so start with gentle gradients of branches. As he gets older you can elevate more. As an adult offer a full range of vertical, horizontal and diagonal.

To me a big part of the husbandry of Chams is that they are not a Labrador puppy ! To force a Cham to do anything is a recipe for a stressful life IMHO. Having said that I always, did something in the viv every day, but on the opposite side to him. So I was as least a threat as poss but to reduce his stress on the occasion I HAD to go in there. 
With much patience over many weeks / months I went nearer to him. Also I offered food from my hand, never went into the viv, just at the open door. Gave him the choice. Eventually he trusted enough to take it. Putting the viv / care side apart, I live by the rule :
He doesn't live in my world - I have to live in his..........respecting his ways if I wanted a healthy and content Cham and was being a good owner.
This includes learning his behaviour, colouration, eyes, mannerisims and boby language, everything I need to know to be able to ' read ' him so I can be the best owner...for him, not me.

I have 4 chams now....all with the above set up and husbandry and all tame. One who thinks he *IS* a Labrador puppy knocks on the window every time he sees me in the room and sulks if ignored :lol2: and have a healthy clutch cooking in the airing cupboard. 

All love being out, sitting in one of many plants I have dotted around the house, while I am working in that room.

I breed all their food, locusts, waxies, mealworms, roaches... so I know where it's come from, afterall they are what they eat lol... and have a healthy clutch cooking in the airing cupboard. 

I always say they are OCD creatures lol.....they love their routine, thats when mine are most comfortable.....misting before food....right door opening = waxies in jar etc....

And ..as for girlie Chams...that's a whole new kettle of fish lol 

OMG, fallen foul of the ' why say a zillion words when a brief synopsis would do ' my fourpennth turned into 10 bob !...sorry....I'll shut up.....:blush:


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

mr spencer, have you posted pics of setups anywhere to view. i personally would like to see these :2thumb: if not why don't you start a thread with full rundown of build :mf_dribble:

ashpak: good luck with the build and the cham


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks. going to pick him up tonight! everythings ready now :2thumb:


----------



## s6t6nic6l (May 15, 2010)

ashpack said:


> Thanks. going to pick him up tonight! everythings ready now :2thumb:


well start a thread with setup and cham pics soon : victory:


----------



## ashpack (Jan 16, 2011)

New thread started with pcs :' )


----------

