# 'Aggressive' Campaigning - my view



## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

I have spent a lot of time reading this forum over the last few weeks and am increasingly worried by the number of people who are not willing to join for the cause because of how they see PKL. 
So I thought I'd write my views on the topic to see if it helps any (might not, but it's worth a go!)

To me 'aggressive' does not mean 'violent' - this is an association which I think far too many people are making. 
'Aggressive' is the opposite of 'Passive' and to me passive campaigning in sitting in front of the telly and thinking "ooh, yes I agree with them" and then maybe voting using the 'red button' if required, and only if the remote is in easy reach at the time.
Aggressive campaigining is going out and talking (talking, not beating) to people, actively trying to understand what you are aiming for so you can help others who don't yet understand. Spreading the word, making sure people know the whole story. If you're no good at talking to people, writing is another way of getting your thoughts across, and boy, is there a lot of that to do!
Aggressive campaigning to me is *doing* something, making sure you talk about how you feel and not just think it from your own home. 

It's just a pity the 'aggressive' seems to be the best word for the job, and I agree it is the right word, you just need to put aside any 'violence' associations - it's not violent, it's just not passive either.
Maybe 'Pro-Active sums it up well, but that always reminds me of a particularly awful boss I once worked for, so I'm happier with 'aggressive'!!

Anyway, that's where I stand - firmly with PKL, and I hope that this gets across my feelings on this small part of the massive undertaking we are attempting...

Ally


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## Athravan (Dec 28, 2006)

To me, what you describe above as "aggressive", I would call "active" campaigning.

I think what people see as aggressive is swear words, images that might cause shock, which is not quite the same as spreading the word or actively campaigning. I think the difference between aggressive and active is the way you put your point across, the words that are used, the images that are used, and so forth.

I personally don't mind an aggressive approach as long as it is properly done, and aggressive doesn't mean violent.

Passive campaigning is just an oxymoron really.


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## madaboutreptiles (Jun 5, 2007)

I think to a lot of people "aggressive" may be the wrong word to use, it gives the impression of violence. It may be better to with something Like "Pro Active" which I think describes the campaign a little better?


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

For the whuzzies :Na_Na_Na_Na: who can't handle a bit of aggressive campaigning I just did a word search and came up with a few alternatives.


*Aggressive=* 
Assertive 
Determined 
Forward 
Pushy 
Belligerent 
Contentious 
Hostile 
Pugnacious 
Truculent 
Domineering 
Forceful 
Outspoken 
Warring 
Arrogant 
Bumptious 
Cocky 
Insolent 
Cocksure 
Overbearing 
Ambitious 
Competitive 
Cutthroat 
Dog-eat-dog
Authoritative 
Dominant 
Powerful 
Dynamic 
Diligent 

Take your pick though personaly I think what you do is far more important than what you call it.

Hey, I'm all for some good old bumptious campaigning.

Gordon


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

not all of those are positive attributes.
I dont want to start a fight with any aggressive people though... sorry..


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## quizicalkat (Jul 7, 2007)

personally I find what is written both agressive and offensive.

The aims may be correct - I don't know I can't read those posts without reaching for the valium but I could neverwork 'with' or 'for' an organisation that uses an approach that causes me to get so angry that I am actualy more angry at it than what I was against in the first place.

Maybe someone could suggest to me an organisation that is pro responsible animal keeping and anti certain organisations (that should remember that they are charities), that don't make me think that they are at least as bad as the people they are against?

dictionary definition - 

AGGRESSIVE implies a disposition to dominate often in disregard of others' rights or in determined and energetic pursuit of one's ends


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## Natrix (Dec 9, 2006)

Tops said:


> not all of those are positive attributes.
> I dont want to start a fight with any aggressive people though... sorry..


That's the list as it came up, I didn't say they were all positive attributes, they just show the range that aggressive covers.

Anyone else got a problem with my list? :bash::2wallbang::blowup:

Gordon :halo:

:lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

the ends do not justify the means.....someone said that once


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

You see, this is what I'm trying to explain - I am NOT going go to around beating people up - and no one else is either. 

Why are people so upset with the PKL? They're trying to explain the situation we are in - not making it that way. They're pointing out what is actually happening and suggesting that maybe we should do something about it. 

Ok, some of the images are provocative - so what? I'm not going to wear them on a T-shirt, if I want to do that I'm able to choose the images that I feel fit in with my personality. There is something for everyone there - you just have to look for it.

The only reason I use the word Aggressive is because a lot of other people have used it in relation to the PKL - I'm not even sure the PKL were the first to use it in regards to all this!!

Whatever you choose to call it - the cause is right and I need to be on this side to aid the future of my hobby.
The words used to describe it do not matter, what you feel is more important. You can be sure no one else is bothered if we can keep our pets or not...


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> Maybe someone could suggest to me an organisation that is pro responsible animal keeping and anti certain organisations (that should remember that they are charities), that don't make me think that they are at least as bad as the people they are against?


err... if there was one, i would have joined it a long time ago... 

PKL, you may not have noticed, has indeed re-tailored the site to reflect people opinions on "agressive logos"

we never said we did not listen to what people had to say.. just somehow we have to get people to say something in the first place..

N


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i think people should present themselves with some class. talk to someone who has class and someone who is rough and confrontational. they can say the very same things but the listener will come away with two distinct impressions. remember, in most cases, people who see the information will be seeing you for the fist time. it's all about first impressions. garnering sympathy from the general public is your goal. the "anti's" are garnering sympathy for the animals through shock tactics. the focus is on the animals, not them. keepers on the other hand are representing themselves. they should be put in the best light to show that they aren't the cruel beasts they've been described as lately.


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> it's all about first impressions. garnering sympathy from the general public is your goal.


have to say, i don't disagree with that at all, and in fact we had a similar convo last week within pkl.. hence the re-jigging of the site graphics!

N


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

As far as passive campaigning goes, i dont think its fair to say people just sit in their armchairs ignoring everything.
If a keeper makes sure they take good care of their animals and gives the antis nothing to complain about then its a good thing. 90% of the people ive visited have something 'wrong' with their setups that the RSPCA or antis would be able to complain about. Its not my job to criticise them but they usually know its wrong and make an excuse when you see it. lol
There are enough bad or borderline keepers out there to worry about.
Joining local and national societies also benefits the hobby.
You dont have to be shaking your fists and carrying banners to help the cause. For the record I always liked the 'Dont get fisted by the antis' slogan and didnt see it as sexual.

You dont get a second chance to make a first impression.

edit: this post will probably stop people letting me through the door :lol2:
I would like to point out that I dont talk about different peoples set ups. I believe you should keep your animals however you wish so long as you are aware and willing to fave the consequences. : victory:


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## Nerys (Apr 18, 2005)

> For the record I always liked the 'Dont get fisted by the antis' slogan and didnt see it as sexual.


*grins*

neither did i tbh.. not in the way it was finally done..

my idea was to have the wording on the back of my t-shirt, with the fist pointing downwards... now that _would_ have been sexual lol.. even we thought that would be a little much

its very easy for people to try and claim the moral high ground, and use that as an excuse for doing nothing..

quizicalkat - one question for you.. other than post on a forum saying that a) we are too much for you and b) you wish there was something you could do...

what exactly have you done about it? have you written to an MP maybe? Written to your local council? Written to DEFRA ? i hate to say it, but i can almost bet on the fact that you have not..

its all very well to knock those who are trying, but those who knock us.. i'd like to see doing something a little more proactive than just posting on a forum saying "i wish there was more i could do" and "i don't like the way they are saying it"

Nerys


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## Ally (Mar 8, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your replies - I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm a nice person (as people that have met me will hopefully vouch) and intend to stay that way. I feel I can work with PKL and stay that way. I want other people to realise that they can do the same - you won't suddenly become something that you are not because of this.

Tops - I completely agree, everyone has a part in this, even if they don't join in anything else, they should all be being extra careful that there is nothing wrong with how they keep their animals. That in itself will help our cause.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i've read most of these threads on this topic. what i never understood (too many chemicals when young i guess) is what the average joe six-pack, snake keeper over there is supposed to exactly do. "support" is a vague term. your numbers aren't big enough to lay down suppressive fire, you have to make every round count. you have to identify your target clearly and take it out. what politicians do you have to lean on? who gets inundated with letters from keepers. you DO have elected law makers. seems like the possibility of them losing thousands of votes for supporting anti-keeping laws, would be enough to give them pause. keepers are a diverse group. you have to bring them together by identifying specific measures they can take to protect their hobby from the radical left extremeists'


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## Tops (Apr 26, 2007)

HABU said:


> your numbers aren't big enough to lay down suppressive fire, you have to make every round count.


Thats what the british do best


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I totally agree Ally - aggressive does not alway mean violent. For me the term aggressive campigning means a relentless campaign from beginning to end - one that doesn't stop until the battle is won. That is what PKL are for me - a group of people willing to step up and face the onslaught - not fromt he antis right now but from the very same people they are tryigt o fight for!

Do the RSPCA thikn about how people will feel when they sen dout millions of booklets containing pics of battery hens and half dead dogs? Dot hey heck - they know it will illicit a response ofmr people - usually £3 a month to help pay for thier cushy headquarters while thier centres suffer!

Can I ask those of you who disagree with the way things are currently being done - have you contacted Rory at all to ut suggestions forward? Do you feel you have a better way forward that will catcht he atention of keepers?

I know many people don't know what they can do to help but surely rather than slate and attack those who are actually trying to do something constructive to fight the cause is not going ot help anyone


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## Trice (Oct 4, 2006)

Well... there is apparently some sort of funday involving snakes in or by the Library in chelmsford this saturday. I'm afraid i can't go due to working. But if someone in the area could go, maybe they could try to do some talking on everyones behalf?


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

I tend to agree with the aggressive comment, it's a bad choice of word. Active is much better. Fighting fire with fire isn't the answer, how do we want to be seen to the 'not really giving a suff either way' public? Do we (I mean the animal hobbiests in general) want to be seen as bomb building, granny digging nutters or do we want to be seen as responsible and caring? 

If only life was more like the movies, good vs evil! Good wins everytime! :lol2:


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

See its not the agressive thing that i care about, i'd happily beat people and protest but pickard and throw blood on fur etc, if it got my point across. 

The reason i am NOT with the PKL is beacuse of the the set views and it seems to me that members aren't really spoken to before doccuments signed in the name of the PKL. 

In a few cases posts have been made by the leader (Rory) and he has signed them PKL. 

So it is one persons views speaking for the whole group. 

While i agree with most of the campagn, there are aspects i disagree with, and would therefore rather my name not be attributed to all of them, so i stand back. 

I activly campagn in my own name on the issues i feel strongest about. This inclueds a boycott of certain companies, to the extent of buying my own products in the family house (to avoid certain brands). I also write often to my MP, and on occasion the PM. Angela Smith must be sick to death of seeing my name on letters, e-mails and hearing messages sent via phone. She actually knew who i was when i introduced myself at a public event. And from this sevral issues have been raised in parlement "on my behalf". One example of positive campagn was the close on 50 mails i sent (post, and electronic) prior to the ban of fox hunting. 

So in a nutshell i feel that the PKL is actually a way to reduce the impact of our message. It is one mail sent signed by however many members. The powers that be see this as just that. One persons view signed by x amount of people, a fraction (be it 9/10 or 1/10) of whom do not even know of its existance. 

I think the best way of campagning would be for like minded people to discuss views and then send personal letters and alike. This way it (IMO) gives more of an impact etc. 

Not that i am at all undermining the work of the PKL, nor insulting any of its members or "leaders" but this is my view.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

darkdan99 said:


> See its not the agressive thing that i care about, i'd happily beat people and protest but pickard and throw blood on fur etc, if it got my point across.


Lol, same here! I guess you're alot like me then? Anti hunt, anti vivisection, anti fur, but Pro pet keeping? So I (we?) don't fit into either category really, some would class me as an 'anti' purely because I have extreme views as far as animal cruelty goes, and I've taken some stick on some of the forums because of it!

You raise some interesting and valid points actually, 1 letter signed on behalf of 100 people isn't as effective (even visually) as 100 seperate letters signed by 100 individuals. There does need to be a counter campaign else we will lose the right to keep the pets we want to, but it needs to be done in a non aggressive manner (as in no bombings, or infected savlon), but it does need to be active to make people aware that THEY could lose the right to keep the animal of their choice.


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## brittone05 (Sep 29, 2006)

I look at it totally different - I see that Rory signs his name as a very proud part of PKL on the whole - not on behalf of and speaking for each of us who are involved.

as a member of PKL, I obviously suport the campaigning approach and the work that is being done so am happy for Rory to speak on behalf of me should he so feel the need to do so.

I agree htat with regards to letter writing etc that a larger number of individual notes rather than 1 signed by many is a more impacting approach but the information Rory posts of on here and other forums is not about having lots of individual threads by each person it is about gaining people's support, thoughts and opinions of certain aspects that bear a threat tot he hobby we all share.


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## Onissarle (Mar 1, 2007)

darkdan99 said:


> The reason i am NOT with the PKL is beacuse of the the set views and it seems to me that members aren't really spoken to before doccuments signed in the name of the PKL.
> 
> In a few cases posts have been made by the leader (Rory) and he has signed them PKL.
> 
> So it is one persons views speaking for the whole group.


Of course not every single member gets their own personal tupence on every single issue and document. With the membership numbers as they are, it would take a long time for everyone to get round to reading it, then do you really ever expect everyone to agree with everything? Nothing would ever get done.

That's the problem with organisations run by commitees, it takes a long time to get them all together, things get tossed back and forth but it can take months to get a final decision. It's why the societies run in that way aren't really capable of taking active action against anything, be it antis, legislation, etc. They work well as an extended social club for keepers, which is what they're supposed to be. Some of them do great work with public shows and such but they can very quickly get bogged down by contraversial issues.

The problem is delegation of responsibility. If there isn't any, things slow to a bickering crawl. I like the PKL because they are structured more like a business than a social society. There is team structure and delegation of responsibility within those teams. Everyone can take on responsibilities that suit their personal abilities, views, and area of interest. There's something for anyone that genuinely wants to make an effort to help and because of the way it's structured, it can react quickly and efficiently to new developments.



> I activly campagn in my own name on the issues i feel strongest about. This inclueds a boycott of certain companies, to the extent of buying my own products in the family house (to avoid certain brands). I also write often to my MP, and on occasion the PM. Angela Smith must be sick to death of seeing my name on letters, e-mails and hearing messages sent via phone. She actually knew who i was when i introduced myself at a public event. And from this sevral issues have been raised in parlement "on my behalf". One example of positive campagn was the close on 50 mails i sent (post, and electronic) prior to the ban of fox hunting.


Then I take my hat off to you. If more people were willing to put in that much personal effort, things wouldn't be on the precarious path they are now.



> So in a nutshell i feel that the PKL is actually a way to reduce the impact of our message. It is one mail sent signed by however many members. The powers that be see this as just that. One persons view signed by x amount of people, a fraction (be it 9/10 or 1/10) of whom do not even know of its existance.
> 
> I think the best way of campagning would be for like minded people to discuss views and then send personal letters and alike. This way it (IMO) gives more of an impact etc.


I know from experience that people can be very lazy. For every five people that talk big on forums like this, you'd be lucky if one of them actually followed through and did something practical to make a difference. Yes, it probably would make more of an impact, if the people receiving them bothered to read more than the first few before replying with form letters but motivating that many people to make that much personal effort is a lot harder than most people think.


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## SiUK (Feb 15, 2007)

how about aggressive like the antis, criminal damage, threatening behaviour, digging up human remains in one case, im not sure what catagory that would be under, threats to kill, harrassment, along with alot of others. And they claim they are trying to make a difference, they are acting like thugs, they make themselves look really bad by their actions.


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i don't talk on these threads anymore........OOPS!!


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## sparkle (Mar 21, 2007)

Ally said:


> You see, this is what I'm trying to explain - I am NOT going go to around beating people up - and no one else is either.
> 
> Why are people so upset with the PKL? They're trying to explain the situation we are in - not making it that way. They're pointing out what is actually happening and suggesting that maybe we should do something about it.
> 
> ...


But if this is a war of words... not a physical fight then the WORDS matter more than anything surely????


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Letter Writing*

Hi, 

First off, the reason we have a set number of letter drafted under various photographs is because having learned before that when some writers sit down and start to write a letter they become so frustrated that they give up.

Having two letter formats only does make it easier. The images at the top are the actual message. All letters that are sent to the MP's or the department head must be opened up, they must be opened up.

Yes in a world where everyone is not worried about how their letter is seen as long as the message is direct and present then this is fine. But so many writers are not fully aware of what to write in the first place, and NO this is not meant to be read as derrogative to any reader.

If any keeper wishes to draft their own letter they can, we are just outlining possiblities of how the letter goes.

Full impact can be achieved on response alone, and visual presentation of said response.

Our letter formats for EPS is set to two responses only so as to make it easier for 1] keepers whom are not used to writing letters and 2] to make it easier for non eps keepers to format or send the letter direct holding the right information as well as 3] To further allow a direct response from EPS keepers.

Finally, these are suggestions in order to bring eps and non eps keepers into an alignment for the campaign, but as said, you do not have to include one of our formats.

We are just trying to bring keepers together under one banner to make more of an impact, but of course as said there will be others that hold different views and if this is aimed at the good of the hobby, then this too is excellent. How people wish to be seen as active is down to each individual.

At this present time there is nothing for the private keeper in the United Kingdom, if as a result of this forum it has finally activated a much greater body of keepers then this too is exceptional and what the hobby needs.

I am criticised for speaking on behalf of the Pro Keepers Lobby so l will write this and face the criticisms again.

I speak on behalf of the PKL, yes. We are a small membership at present and l do believe in the statement, United we stand, divided we fall/fail. A bigger group stand for a louder voice, making for a united front, and as such ensuring those that strongly oppose what we do as a hobby, business or passion are not going to fade away. PKL is a body, it needs a face and a voice. 

We do have other voices that are either read or listened to with Pro Keepers Lobby, but we do try and limit who writes what so as to not confuse what is being said, and yes you would be perfectly within your rights to criticise the way PKL are handling certain threads, but it is done to illicit a response on a wide variety of subjects from the keeper and the trader.

PKL can not fight all corners at once, we have to choose where to make a stand in a united front, yes said it again, but that is what we are about, uniting the keeper properly, not just reptile, but all the keeper fraternities.

Rory Matier
Pro Keepers Lobby


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## darkdan99 (Dec 28, 2006)

I more than agree that the PKL should exist, and doccuments should be signed on behalf of the PKL. BUT because i do not agree with all centiments and statements i will not join the PKL. I do support the work they do, publically (by referal and compliementing inititvie(sp)) however i will not join them beause of the discrepencys. 

Just my point of view and obviously some will disagree. But I personally would much rather remain "Dan Turrant, Passionate keeper of captive animals" (as I sign my letters [actually this will be added to my signature soon] and make my own banners, posters and letters than "Dan Turrant, PKL member" and just sit and watch other people do the work on my behalf and become a faceless entity, or member 28 of 84. 

Just my view.


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

darkdan99 said:


> I more than agree that the PKL should exist, and doccuments should be signed on behalf of the PKL. BUT because i do not agree with all centiments and statements i will not join the PKL. I do support the work they do, publically (by referal and compliementing inititvie(sp)) however i will not join them beause of the discrepencys.
> 
> Just my point of view and obviously some will disagree. But I personally would much rather remain "Dan Turrant, Passionate keeper of captive animals" (as I sign my letters [actually this will be added to my signature soon] and make my own banners, posters and letters than "Dan Turrant, PKL member" and just sit and watch other people do the work on my behalf and become a faceless entity, or member 28 of 84.
> 
> Just my view.


There is nothing stopping anyone doing both. I don't think there is an exclusivity agreement when you join the PKL just as there is no "hand in your personal identity here" box.


As I understand it, the PKL would not involve you in anything you had any problem with being involved with. As it covers ( or will cover ) almost every species of animal that is kept as a pet, there are bound to be lots of areas that individuals want to steer clear of or not get involved with.

I doubt that any Anti agrees with everything that is done and said in their name... look at how many of them actually keep pets for starters.


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## glidergirl (Nov 27, 2006)

Rory, alot of the ahem how can I say it, probably Anti groups I used to be a member of had postcards made up with a pic on the front (you could use the born and thriving in captivity, killed by legislation art) a message on the back like 'ban hunting' with a space for name, address and signature.

So, no one has to draft their own letter, you're not signing one letter on behalf of everyone, it's visually effective because (hopefully) there will be lots of them, they're even addressed to the right person, all the sender has to do is put a stamp on it! Easy 

Just remember though, when writing the postcard it needs to be brief :lol2:


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## HABU (Mar 21, 2007)

i think,(like it matters) that promoting the hobby in a positive manner, is just as important as combating the opposition. they both need to be instituted in tandem. a two pronged attack. a frontal assault on the enemy while winning the hearts and minds of the populace. as public opinion drifts in a more favorable direction, support for the "anti's" will wain. eventually the keepers will hold the high ground and the "anti's" will have an up hill battle and lose many soldiers due to the overwhelming odds. as the keepers gain the advantage, it will create a positive feedback loop, thereby forcing the "anti's" to fall back and regroup. this is when the keepers should deliver the death blow and reduce the opposition to a ragged fringe group.:lol2:


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## TSKA Rory Matier (May 27, 2007)

*Postcards*

Marie, 

Postcards are a good idea, but there is simply not the money in the kitty to support that as a printing job. But l do believe that is an excellent idea and was one of my first concepts, until l learned of the true advertising budget...which is nil.

R


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## ratboy (Jan 10, 2007)

glidergirl said:


> Rory, alot of the ahem how can I say it, probably Anti groups I used to be a member of had postcards made up with a pic on the front (you could use the born and thriving in captivity, killed by legislation art) a message on the back like 'ban hunting' with a space for name, address and signature.
> 
> So, no one has to draft their own letter, you're not signing one letter on behalf of everyone, it's visually effective because (hopefully) there will be lots of them, they're even addressed to the right person, all the sender has to do is put a stamp on it! Easy
> 
> Just remember though, when writing the postcard it needs to be brief :lol2:


I think the point here is that it's PKL's letter and each keeper signs for themselves, the PKL do not sign for them.

Postcards would be a great idea... but where is the money for them coming from ? PKL does not have any and nor does FOCAS


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