# Excavator clay on Heat mat.



## HforHERP (Feb 12, 2013)

I have a 4ft wooden viv that I want to make look nice and realistic for my leo, with this excavator clay substrate. But I was wondering how I would heat the tank with the heat mat. I can't put it under the tank, so it has to go in the tank.

Can I put a thin layer of clay on top of the heat mat, then the thermostat probe lying on top of the clay? Some people say this wouldn't work.

If not, my next idea was to just have the heat mat inside a cave, with slate of something similar on top of it.

I'm open to suggestions on how to make this work, thanks guys :2thumb:


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

i'm assuming the heat would manage to get through a thin layer, and as it sets hard it doesn't need to be deep like other loose substrates. probably less than a cm.

i'd just do a test, it can be remolded if you wet it again right? if so, put a really thin layer over the heat mat and rest of the floor and check your temps.

probe goes where the animal goes, on top of substrate :2thumb:


----------



## Fuzzynuts (May 24, 2014)

Can you not stick the heat mat to the roof instead that way the heat will go down evenly? Otherwise your just heating substrate 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## HforHERP (Feb 12, 2013)

Fuzzynuts said:


> Can you not stick the heat mat to the roof instead that way the heat will go down evenly? Otherwise your just heating substrate
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


No, because the vivarium is for leopard geckos who need belly heat.


----------



## HforHERP (Feb 12, 2013)

TWreptiles said:


> i'm assuming the heat would manage to get through a thin layer, and as it sets hard it doesn't need to be deep like other loose substrates. probably less than a cm.
> 
> i'd just do a test, it can be remolded if you wet it again right? if so, put a really thin layer over the heat mat and rest of the floor and check your temps.
> 
> probe goes where the animal goes, on top of substrate :2thumb:


Thanks, i'll give it a try


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

Fuzzynuts said:


> Can you not stick the heat mat to the roof instead that way the heat will go down evenly? Otherwise your just heating substrate
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


heat mats are no good for heating surroundings, bulbs and che's are better for that. heat mats heat things on them or very near, which is why i suggested putting it under a very thin layer and seeing if that works


----------



## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

What size is your viv ? you said 4 foot but how high is it 18inch or more the reason I am asking it why not try a reptile radiator on the roof if its 18inch it maybe ok its 75 watts and designed to provide the heat from above you say leopard gecko require belly heat which would come from above. I am using this on my leopards new viv when I get to it


----------



## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

I would switch to a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for use with excavator clay. I don't know much about it but it has been something I have been thinking about. My main reason for opting in favour of the CHE is if the heat mat has a problem and stops working it ain't gonna be pretty trying to get it out. 

An other option is getting a high powered HabiStat heat mat and, as Fuzzynuts said, attach it to the roof of the viv but that would be an experimental option. I am getting a batch of these tomorrow to experiment with in different ways to see what they are like.

I certainly wouldn't use a heat mat under the substrate but that's just my opinion.


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

belly heat belly heat belly heat

leopard geckos are thigmotherms. i.e they don't get their heat from the sun's rays, but from laying on things like rocks that are warmed by the sun in the day and continue to release heat for a couple of hours once the sun has set.

che's (ceramic bulbs, reptile radiators, ahs heaters, tubular heaters) all put heat out into the air and can't provide belly heat UNLESS they are heating something near them such as a rock or a piece of slate which can then give off heat to the underside of the gecko when it lays on it. a heatmat would not be hot enough to do this and would need to be beneath the animal


----------



## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

TWreptiles said:


> belly heat belly heat belly heat
> 
> leopard geckos are thigmotherms. i.e they don't get their heat from the sun's rays, but from laying on things like rocks that are warmed by the sun in the day and continue to release heat for a couple of hours once the sun has set.
> 
> che's (ceramic bulbs, reptile radiators, ahs heaters, tubular heaters) all put heat out into the air and can't provide belly heat UNLESS they are heating something near them such as a rock or a piece of slate which can then give off heat to the underside of the gecko when it lays on it. a heatmat would not be hot enough to do this and would need to be beneath the animal


Yeah mate we get the point, I use overhead heating for more than half of my leos right now and they get on better(IMO) than those on heat mats. Where do you think the heat comes from in the wild? 

Also my post about HIGH POWERED heat mats did have the word experimental in it, EXPERIMENTAL, *EXPERIMENTAL*. 

There is more than one way to keep each species of animal and some are trial and error.


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

gavgav04 said:


> Yeah mate we get the point, I use overhead heating for more than half of my leos right now and they get on better(IMO) than those on heat mats. Where do you think the heat comes from in the wild?
> 
> Also my post about HIGH POWERED heat mats did have the word experimental in it, EXPERIMENTAL, *EXPERIMENTAL*.
> 
> There is more than one way to keep each species of animal and some are trial and error.


true, high powered heat mats may be better as the higher amount of heat produced could penetrate the substrate better

what substrate do you use with the overhead heat sources? have you taken surface temp readings using an infra-red heat gun? (just out of interest)


----------



## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

TWreptiles said:


> true, high powered heat mats may be better as the higher amount of heat produced could penetrate the substrate better
> 
> what substrate do you use with the overhead heat sources? have you taken surface temp readings using an infra-red heat gun? (just out of interest)


I will be able to confirm, this in the coming weeks after playing about with different things.

I am currently using mixtures of slate, sandstone, granite, fine sands, course sands and polystyrene covered in grout. Most of these are reasonably new and are not yet housing anything but the fine sands and slate are both reading perfectly with a heat gun. The way I have my new vivs set up gives the inhabitant the option of more than one 'hot spot' with some areas being around 36-38C and others being down around 30-32C and anything in between. This is due to the large mixture of substrates and different levels available which gives the Leos more of a natural set-up a bit like the way Bearded Dragons are kept. All the substrates mentioned above are getting to temperatures suitable for Leopard Geckos and are providing them with more naturalistic homes and give me something much more pleasing on the eye compared to the completely flat, lino covered vivs which seem to be the norm.


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

i like your way of thinking, very varanid keeper-esque

when i get my afghans (the females already cohabit so i'll be getting a 3/4 foot viv or one of the large exos) i want to do something like that

as natural as possible with large temperature ranges and night time cooling and the likes

i'd love to do a concrete/foam background but i'm too much of a perfectionist and a worrier to commit to doing it because i'll always think it could be better :lol2:


----------



## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

TWreptiles said:


> i like your way of thinking, very varanid keeper-esque
> 
> when i get my afghans (the females already cohabit so i'll be getting a 3/4 foot viv or one of the large exos) i want to do something like that
> 
> ...


All of mine have 4' vivs and I feel they are much better like that. 

To try an stay on the point of excavator clay, maybe this could be used to create several different levels with rocks, slate and sand scattered about on top. All my imperfections are covered by wood, rock or plants.


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

gavgav04 said:


> All of mine have 4' vivs and I feel they are much better like that.
> 
> To try an stay on the point of excavator clay, maybe this could be used to create several different levels with rocks, slate and sand scattered about on top. All my imperfections are covered by wood, rock or plants.


can it be remolded when wet?

i plan to go to the garden centre near me and get loads of sandstone rocks for rockeries and landscaping that are relatively flat and use the excavator clay to secure all the rocks (put layer of excavator clay down and arrange rocks whilst wet and let it dry) to create a matrix of rocks with different temperature hides and shafts of light to allow them to regulate uv exposure through the light and shade method


----------



## GavinMc (Jan 9, 2013)

TWreptiles said:


> can it be remolded when wet?
> 
> i plan to go to the garden centre near me and get loads of sandstone rocks for rockeries and landscaping that are relatively flat and use the excavator clay to secure all the rocks (put layer of excavator clay down and arrange rocks whilst wet and let it dry) to create a matrix of rocks with different temperature hides and shafts of light to allow them to regulate uv exposure through the light and shade method


I don't have a clue.


----------



## gwnm (Apr 14, 2014)

says it returns to the soft molding stage if it gets wet

Excavator® Clay Burrowing Substrate

looks ok to use but think its a little expensive if you do a big viv


----------



## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

i have just used the excavator clay mixed with exo terra desert sand and a block of corr. i had seen some one do this for a leo and i liked the look and colour, so i took a chance and i am very happy with the results. it can be reshaped when wet yes it is expensive but it looks more natrual the beardie set up is just for the shape she does dig but not much 



i got 3 bags of clay in total i made more up than i need due to the fact i am using the same stuff when i do my leo viv. this will be above the beardie it is planned to be 4 and a half foot long 20" wide and internal 8" high this is why the reptile rad will work for me i spoke too habistat who recomended this


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

brilliant, just out of interest how do you clean it (remove the poop from the substrate not like disinfect it)


----------



## wezza309 (Jun 21, 2012)

well i only put my beardie in it two weeks ago and she made a mess two hours after she moved in and i have not cleaned up yet my g/f did it but said its not as easy as the sand she used to be on but leo's are alot easier


----------



## TWreptiles (Dec 21, 2011)

wezza309 said:


> well i only put my beardie in it two weeks ago and she made a mess two hours after she moved in and i have not cleaned up yet my g/f did it but said its not as easy as the sand she used to be on but leo's are alot easier


the vid i saw on youtube of someone using this stuff said he vaccumed it off

but that was with an excavator clay/sand/soil mix so presumably looser and dustier than straight clay


----------



## Spaceisdeep (Mar 19, 2013)

gavgav04 said:


> Yeah mate we get the point, I use overhead heating for more than half of my leos right now and they get on better(IMO) than those on heat mats. Where do you think the heat comes from in the wild?
> 
> There is more than one way to keep each species of animal and some are trial and error.


i use a ceramic heater over slate for my leos, found it works much better than a heat mat because I get a perfect hot spot and also warmer air temps too, my house is cold in the winter and when i just had a heat mat the leos were constantly sat on it, with the ceramic they are much more active


----------

